I don't want you folks to hate on me, because I love the D'Angelo album, Erykah's album, and been feelin the Roots since "Proceed"... But, the more and more I listen to the music, it's just funny that it's almost getting stagnant. I mean, It's good shit, no doubt, I hate having to preface this with some nice shit just so I don't get attacked by you folks but damn, I mean, let's be serious about it. I think that they all got soul and got some good ideas, but I just don't think that much of it is really lasting in my mind. I think they need to grow alooooot before we praise them the way we do. But I still think they could earn all this praise though.

I'm an artist myself, and I'm not saying I'm any better than them, on that level, their eons beyond me, but still, should we necessarily put them on God level because they do some good music. I think it's going to they're head, and they're jus slippin. I don't know, DON'T SLAM ME, JUST REASON WHAT I'M SAYING.

Peace

----------------------------------------



"....I'm Healthy, I'm Alive, I can't complain!!"-Aceyalone

"....Anytime you find someone more successful than you are, especially when you are both engaged in the same business-you know they're doing something you aren't."-Malcom X

"...If we smoked out, Hip Hop gon be smoked out, if we doin aiight, Hip Hop gon be doin aiight...We are Hip Hop, me, you, everybody, WE are Hip Hop, so Hip Hop is goin where we goin... SO THE NEXT TIME YOU ASK YOURSELF WHERE HIP HOP IS GOIN, ASK YOURSELF, "WHERE AM I GOIN? HOW AM I DOIN?"-Mos Def

"...if we can't sit at the table, then let's knock the f**kin legs off!!..."-James Foreman, SNCC

"...I'm used to white people tryna rob us, it ain't no new thing, why don't they try stealin some of this poverty..."-Gil Scott-Heron

not goin that mad route at all.

but if we are indeed "ruining" music.....


so is primo
so is swiss beats
so is rock a fella
so is a touch of jazz
so is prince
so are the beatnuts
so is r kelly
so is 88 keys
so is rodney jerkins
i can go on forever........

but i look at it like this.



brown sugar/voodoo- if u don't see artistic growth...
can i borrow a dollar/like water for chocolate- if u don't see growth....
baduism/mama's gun- you don't see growth?
organix/things fall apart- you don't see growth?
utd project/black on both sides- no growth?

the point is you don't have to love it.....or like it...and i ain't mad.

but i doubt that the media and radio and the like are sitting around having a round table disscussion about how we must be stopped.

i hear that about other cats like puff or rockafela or ruff ryders.

i don't even think we been around long enough to even be worthy of this type of disscussion.

this ain't even a year.

i still hear amazing praise for jay dee (sans me)
the grammies and year end lists have spoken for d.
erykah....sorry after last night's universal show...she can do no wrong for me. for now.

....again i respect your opinion. we will make great shit. we will make weak shit. but please don't say that we aren't growing.








"Jazz is heading down because of the task of acquiring the intellect to further it. The refusal to acknowledge the intellect required to produce the music with each generation gets weaker, because you can’t produce people with the intellect required to defend yourself from the attacks of the ignorant." -wynton marsalis

"Hip Hop is heading down because of the task of acquiring the intellect to further it. The refusal to acknowledge the intellect required to produce the music with each generation gets weaker, because you can’t produce people with the intellect required to defend yourself from the attacks of the ignorant." -?uestlove

Come on...I can dig all the names you just mentioned but swiss beats? He is one that is really ruining music. Is he really respected like that?
---------------------------------------

Kevin Torres
R.I.P.

Yo I feel you qoolquest. I mean the soulquarians are doing they thang, and just giving us good music( something to vibe to like my man Common says). The soulquarians are gonna be around a long time, and with every CD they produce, make, or even influence it's just gonna get better! It's just when you reach a certain status like the Soulquarians did this year with the production of "LWFC" and "Mama's Gun"; there's gonna be hate from a lot of people. It's not that there music sounds the same it just has a Soulquarian defined sound. For instance everytime you hear a beat from premo you no it's premo because it has that premo sound(Plus you nod your head because it's dope). The soulquarians are no different everybody has a sound that defines them or identify them. If you didn't you would not sell records because nobody would know who you are!;-)

Swizz is still a ill producer no matter what the hatas say:7

I think the point of the original post was to criticize the idol worship that has started to take place in regards to the soulaquarians. I mean, some people worship Puffy but worshipping the soulaquarians is no better. Chances are it won't happen because most people have become fans of soulaquarian music through discerning taste. In other words you had to be critical to a certain extent to become a fan of the music.

Of course anything can be taken to far and I think plenty of people have become dyed in the wool fans of the soulaqaurians for the same reason that you have some dyed in the wool Prince fans. They are modern day saviors from the artless music scene kind of how Prince was in the disco-era of the late seventies and early eighties. Some people claim Prince has never made a bad record but he has made bad records for Prince. So I guess we just have to be watchful that we do notice if the soulaquarians stagnate.

However, after seeing Badu Saturday night I have to say the soul is far from stagnate. Badu was brilliant. Waterbabies featuring quest even did their thing although the crowd wasn't really a hip hop vibing crowd like what common gets when he headlines at HOB. Still in all, I was entertained even though this was my third time seeing him since LWFC dropped.

But I will remain vigilant. If the next Roots album is a rehashed version of past Roots albums then I will have to call a spade a spade.

>The soulquarians
>are gonna be around a
>long time, and with every
>CD they produce, make, or
>even influence it's just gonna
>get better!

I hope you are right, but unless you are Nostradamus you can never know how much deeper they can or will go into the artistic well. Things will eventually plateau...eventually...know that.

h20

but even if i did "TFA part duexe". shit would still be banging. i mean was there really a difference between fullilingness first finale and songs in the key of life?


just saying. don't expect no 0 to 60 in 2 seconds stankonia wearing my grandma's dress 499 bpm in 12/8 meter hip hop.

as long as shit is dope.

that's what counts.






"Jazz is heading down because of the task of acquiring the intellect to further it. The refusal to acknowledge the intellect required to produce the music with each generation gets weaker, because you can’t produce people with the intellect required to defend yourself from the attacks of the ignorant." -wynton marsalis

"Hip Hop is heading down because of the task of acquiring the intellect to further it. The refusal to acknowledge the intellect required to produce the music with each generation gets weaker, because you can’t produce people with the intellect required to defend yourself from the attacks of the ignorant." -?uestlove

you are right, there is no difference between fulfillingness first finale and songs in the key of life (except that audiences seemed more ready and receptive by the time SITKOL came out thus it is remembered as THE Stevie album rather then FFF) in terms of growth, because Stevie was already a giant by 1974. You don't care if a giant grows a couple more inches. But if you look at Stevie's early career there is definite growth and maturation up until 1972 when Music of My Mind and Talking Book were released. After '72, the growth moved from linear to more like multi-dimensional expansion. He could go an any direction because he had fully developed his means of expressing his genius. Its kind of like a bottle rocket reaching high enough into the sky to expand in any and all directions..

Everyone of us is infinitely creating, but we all have this inner critic that stifle's the process...our growth as artists is linear as we learn to free our expression from that voice. But then you hit that critical mass when that voice cannot really stifle you anymore, then its not about maturation anymore. Stevie '72, Marvin '71, Curtis '68, Prince age 4.

In my opinion, its harder to detect maturation in a collective the size of the soulaquarians. Some may have hit that critical mass already. My gut tells me that most of the soulaquarians haven't because relatively speaking hip hop soul musicians are some insecure mofos. How else do you explain the ubiquitous superiority complex of just about every stage persona in hip hop? To this date, Timbaland is the only person who I ever heard rate himself below average on the mic (and I quote "your grandma can beat me rapping"), but even then, he went on to say he was the greatest beat creator there is. I just think that the nature of the fans (super-fickle and with this ying yang battle between being reactionary and the endless search for the new hot shit) coupled with the fact that many think that somehow hip hop music is not as pure of an artfrom creates this very difficult environment to let loose one's creativity. Now if fear takes over and the roots do really drop 'things fall apart 33 and a third', then banging or not, it won't be growth. I don't see it happening though.

To put it in other terms...

I don't care how many unreleased, yet bangin' Tupac and Biggie tracks you unearth that music will only make me wonder what would have been had those artists been allowed to grow.

h20

tell me those breaks ain't left you yet!!

there's gotta be some DNB on this album...end of you got me left me salivatin' man!

Much love,
Kyle

****************************************
You still want your harbor punk??...i'll show you your harbor...
between my legs baby...now dock that shit.
****************************************

>brown sugar/voodoo- if u don't see
>artistic growth...

Hell yeah I do on this one.

>can i borrow a dollar/like water
>for chocolate- if u don't
>see growth....

Actually, I see it as more of a roller coaster of ups
and downs as opposed to a straight forward progression;
and I hate to say that from "Resurrection" to "One Day"
to "Like Water" has been a very bumpy ride - of the
three the latter is probably the one I'm feeling least.

>organix/things fall apart- you don't see growth?

Again with the roller coaster thing. I believe both
The Roots and Common will peak again though, and
probably at greater artistic heights than we've known
or could ever imagine.

>utd project/black on both sides- no growth?

Aww come on, that one's just cheap. ;)

-- Be sure to check out the all new
"Rhymerator" at RockstarGames.com
and tell 'em DAFLASHMAN sent you!

?uest, i have to give u respect for being objective when people may give you criticism's. I just had a type of realization with this post. I mean, who else, and where else could someone come onto a site and express to an artist directly his opinions and get a response nonetheless.
This site is actually useful not only to the fans, but more useful to you. why? because it allows you to get reaction and feedback on things immediately. Also, you don't have your army of "yes" men around you. So for someone like you, who utilizes the site and contributes to it, you will benefit from it on many levels. So i just want to give you props for engaging with fans and doubters alike. There's no interviews that can top the info that comes out of these boards.
Respect to you ?uest..

I totally agree. Qoolquest is the Jerry Garcia of hip hop (noone kick my ass for saying that, pleeeeze;)
but anyways, one thing Kweli said a while back really resonated with me and I think it applies here, people gotta go with the times. Things dont stay stagnant, by laws of nature, and people cant try and pretend they do. Its up to the fans to seek shit out, and yeah, we'll stay true to our connections but very few stay on top for long. Or something. I love hip hop, and music at that, but there are few artists I love thuroughly for a long time. The roots of it (dayum) have been the Roots and Mos Def for some time, good shit comes in and out. I DUNNNNNO, what Im tryin to say is good music dont fade out, people who cling to what they think should be the best cuz of past labels do. Go wit the heart.
PEACE

having direct access to every okayplayer's opinion of your music, style of dress, love life, and whether you prefer briefs or boxers is a good thing. it might be the other way around. its hard to be creative when criticism (even poisitive criticism is flowing steadily).


or interacting with fans might let artists know how few people actually do hear them and how little their music is truly understood. You have to admit that there are a lot of fans of the roots and the okp's in general who are just reacting to a musical landscape that is void of social responsibility or originality. So by being socially responsible and original, the roots and okp's are the first alternative. But that doesn't mean that all the people here are really into the music so much as they are NOT into mainstream music. So these reactionaries post their ideas and opinions and the artists get to find out just how superficial some of their fans are.

Just saying there are two sides to the coin.

h20

I feel what you're sayin Quest, you did bring up some good points, The Roots, in my opinion, have grown, but with D, Erykah, and Common, they've just introduced themselves to a whole new team of folks, so to me at least, they haven't necessarily grown, but changed. You guys, on the other hand,(the band, Soulquarians) have done some good work, but I think honestly ya'll can amaze me, and hopefully you'll get the chance to. And yeah, you're right that you haven't been around long enough to see growth, so I guess on D's, Erykahs, and Commons next albums we can assess your growth and pick this up from there.

Peace

----------------------------------------



"....I'm Healthy, I'm Alive, I can't complain!!"-Aceyalone

"....Anytime you find someone more successful than you are, especially when you are both engaged in the same business-you know they're doing something you aren't."-Malcom X

"...If we smoked out, Hip Hop gon be smoked out, if we doin aiight, Hip Hop gon be doin aiight...We are Hip Hop, me, you, everybody, WE are Hip Hop, so Hip Hop is goin where we goin... SO THE NEXT TIME YOU ASK YOURSELF WHERE HIP HOP IS GOIN, ASK YOURSELF, "WHERE AM I GOIN? HOW AM I DOIN?"-Mos Def

"...if we can't sit at the table, then let's knock the f**kin legs off!!..."-James Foreman, SNCC

"...I'm used to white people tryna rob us, it ain't no new thing, why don't they try stealin some of this poverty..."-Gil Scott-Heron

>
>
>so is primo
>so is swiss beats
>so is rock a fella
>so is a touch of jazz
>so is prince
>so are the beatnuts
>so is r kelly
>so is 88 keys
>so is rodney jerkins
>i can go on forever........

Uhm, I think I understand the argument you're trying to make, but do you really wanna make it? I mean, on that list, the only two I have much love for are Primo and Prince, and even I'd argue that they've grown stagnant. There's a fine line between consistency and a rut.

>
>
>
>brown sugar/voodoo- if u don't see
>artistic growth...

I do, absolutely, but be careful. All the "where are the songs?" questions aren't fair for one album, but at some point D's gotta re-embrace form if he wants to be one of the giants. After all, Radiohead's following Kid A with a more conventional album (that's a joke).

>can i borrow a dollar/like water
>for chocolate- if u don't
>see growth....

Yup, although a more appropriate question might be if there's growth, sonically, from TFA or VooDoo (the second one's not fair, I know). There are times on LWFC (like The Questions) when it does sound like Soulquarian autopilot. But, you saved Common's career, and on the whole the album's dope. No complaints here, but I hope this was the culmination of a particular approach. Anything else will get repetitive.

>baduism/mama's gun- you don't see growth?

Nada nada nada, not a damn thing. With the Cheeba sound remix and the second single, she's getting close, but she's not pulling her weight yet. Her voice is and always will be dope, but right now too many of her tracks sound like soul muzak, and too many of her lyrics are deep-like-high-school-poetry. She really does need to get over herself and her self-projected image as the Rebel Queen (which you're not helping, Chewie) and concentrate on finding the groove more consistently.

>
>organix/things fall apart- you don't see
>growth?
>utd project/black on both sides- no
>growth?

I wholeheartedly agree with the "not fair" judgement of the other dude, but you've earned the right to gloat. Hell, TFA is five times better than Illadelph, and black on both sides is about 30 times better than the Black Star album. Point granted, and congratulations.

>>but i doubt that the media
>and radio and the like
>are sitting around having a
>round table disscussion about how
>we must be stopped.
>
>i hear that about other cats
>like puff or rockafela or
>ruff ryders.

But that's not the question. Do you really sit up at nights ranking yourself against those artistic nonentities? The question is, can you freak like Prince, like Stevie, like George across borders? This is a fair question to ask since that's always been your stated goal. As fans we're fickle but really excited by your potential, and we don't want to have to wait for the next D album to signal your new direction. You, especially, are too talented to merely support the innovations of D and Jay Dee.

I want to hear the Soulquarians go through a "U Got the Look"/"Cream" phase. I wanna hear y'all do Funkadelic (AND DON'T MAKE MY ASS WAIT SEVEN YEARS FOR JAMES RIVER!!). For Christ sakes, I want to hear y'all ract to Stankonia. I kno you've got soul, I know you know your history, but can you move ass? Because all the artist you guys cite, from the ones listed above to Ornette and Coltraine, knew that part of it was just as essential as the artistic side.

With high ambition comes high expectations. Good luck

-----
bshelly: railing against the Industrial Revolution since 1999. Even Adam Smith recognizes:

"The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations, of which the effects too are, perhaps, always the same, or very nearly the same, has no occassion to exert his understanding, or to exercise his invention in finding out expedients for removing difficulties which never occur. He naturally loses, therefore, the habit of such exertion, and generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become." That's my word.

disclaimer: I'm no huge Badu defender, but as an artist *and* an art critic, I'm something of a critic of critics...I want my criticism rock solid and well thought-out, hence I had to criticize some of your criticism (would have inboxed it, but I decided to keep it in the public forum for discussion by all).

>>baduism/mama's gun- you don't see growth?
>
>Nada nada nada, not a damn
>thing.

so, you don't see growth sonically? that's what quest is talking about. the MUSIC. he isn't responsible for the lyrics...and i have the feeling erykah does her own vocal arrangement. so, any comment on the musical growth, if any, in your opinion?

> With the Cheeba
>sound remix and the second
>single, she's getting close, but
>she's not pulling her weight
>yet. Her voice is
>and always will be dope,
>but right now too many
>of her tracks sound like
>soul muzak, and too many
>of her lyrics are deep-like-high-school-poetry.

well, that's in need of explanation. "deep like high school poetry"? be more specific in your criticism, please. exactly what about her lyricism would you advise her to change?

> She really does need
>to get over herself

is this an attempt at constructive criticism or attack? look at that sentence objectively and decide how it sounds.

> and
>her self-projected image as the
>Rebel Queen (which you're not
>helping, Chewie) and concentrate on
>finding the groove more consistently.

this is the vaguest form of constructive criticism I've seen. Care to go into more detail? by "finding the groove", are you referring to the vocal arrangement and how her voice blends with the music? again, you recommend _____?

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux -
Just listen, you will believe...

"I don't denounce writtens, but freestyling at its essence is improvising. It's spontaneous, uncut, mind, thought, travel, energy - all at the same time...the thing is to be at a peak where your freestyle sounds like your writtens and vice versa" - Aceyalone on freestyling (Rappages, Sept. 95)

peace, first of all, Soulaquarians are way above Swiss Beats, Rodney (how much money we makin???) Jerkins, and Rocafella... Prince (well that my friend is a different story all together) however, the music (in my opinion) is great, but I know exactly what money is saying, it's bland. If this makes any sense, it's funky, but bland... I don't get the same feeling from recorded Roots material as I do from their live sets... but even that isn't no where near as edgy as it used to be case in point (outside of Hub's solos) the solo's are garbage, sorry to say it like that, but it is such a insult to any musician. How many times can Kamal play "the Peanuts', too wack. However, the Soulaquarians as a whole are dope, (88 is ill, point fucking blank, talk about taking a back seat to your man...)... it's just that for all the hype I hear about Common's album (bland), D'Angelo's album (bland), Things Fall Apart (bland), but they all have there moments... if there is any comparison to Prince, it would have to be after the Lovesexy album moving forward...
to even assume any one of these cats has made any album comparable to Prince from Dirty Mind up to LoveSexy is foolish (ok... I'll give you Around the World in A Day, but not the original version...smile). Me and some music heads had this discussion the other night, and it ran parallel to Tribe Called Quest, Post Umma or Pre Umma, it was obvious we went with the Pre Umma, why, too much talent in one room... I mean, if Tribe would have continued with just Ali and Tip on production, I mean it's obvious Midnight Marauders was their zenith correct??? Look at it like this, one the only reason why people can take such a critical look at their work is because of the critical stance taken by Quest at Prince (Rappages article), very well written, thought provoking, but also opened the game up all the way across the board (hey if you can critique Prince, then fall in line...). There is no argument that these cats are leading the pack to some degree, but please everyone, could you just let JD's nuts have some air, a little light please. I mean, money is dope (on production, had his moments on the mic) but it is obvious of his overwhelming impact on the rest of the OK squad. It would have been nice to see the direction of Questlove, even Quest, D, and Common would have taken, not necessarily without each other (we all need family) but on their own... somewhat like Talib did, without Mos, and what he did with Mos without HiTek... no disrespect, just a thought from someone who buys your music, supports all your shows, your site, and has been doing so long before it was just suburban white kids who found this new thing called 'HipHop'at your shows...

Even you as an artist will add on to music decline!!!!!!

outta sight, outta mind.

>>erykah....sorry after last night's universal show...she
>can do no wrong for
>me. for now.


for NOW???...is she thinking about heading into a different direction or switching up her sound?...quest, can you elaborate?

i it aint red, then it must be blue?
if it aint false, then it must be true?

i gave the song cool points for the diamond d beat


******the sigs to end all sigs******

"You hold my heart like the night does the stars.I love you."

I love you too!!!!

5 Deadly Venom Spitters - No One is Safe
Especially your stupid ass, bee-otch!!!!

First off, you say on one hand that you love D and Badu's album, but on the other that the Soulquarian sound is getting stagnant. Only Mama's Gun is the latest Soulquarian album (unless you count Jay Dee's new album as a Soulquarian joint, which I don't). So if you like Mama's Gun, then how are they getting stagnant?

Next, they are just starting out. In fact, Com's Like Water For Chocolate was the first time I actually saw the name Soulquarian attached to an actual album. In fact, when Voodoo was released, the name Soulquarian, for most cats, was pretty much just a part of ?uestlove's signature at the end of posts. Voodoo wasn't labeled as the first "Soulquarian project". So what are we going by? The only two entire Soulquarian albums so far are Like Water For Chocolate and Mama's Gun. Throw in some guest production spots for soundtracks and cats like Will Downing, and there you have it.

By that, it hasn't even been 2 years yet.

And you're saying they're stagnant?

I'd say you're not giving them a chance to grow at all...but then again, you also said you liked the albums they put out so far...

If you don't want to get clowned by other heads, I'd clarify.

1Love,
BigPerm

"You funny do, cuz really you think you can do me when you roll a 500 that's really a 320."

In the Deck:

Pavement - Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain
Joni Mitchell - Hissing of Summer Lawns
Beth Orton - Central Reservation
Dave Hollister - Chicago 85...the Movie
The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
PJ Harvey - Stories from the City, Stories from the Sea

>should we necessarily put
>them on God level because
>they do some good music.

I haven't been putting them on a 'god level'... have you. I mean, ?uest's fro is pretty impressive, but I don't think he's gonna wave his hand and make the world a better place.

Yes, we get excited when a new album drops, and we often praise it as the next best thing. Most of us (most, not all) are pretty sensible though... we realize that we won't really know how good this album is for a year or two. We gotta wait, let it soak in... all we know is we really really dig it now, it's set apart from other stuff we hear, it's just plain damn good. We know they aren't gods... well, except for Mercedes. I mean, have you seen the lady? Damn... my bad, she's not a soulquarian. Eh, I'm still keeping that part in there.

> I think it's going
>to they're head, and they're
>jus slippin.

How are they slipping? Seriously... I'm not "slammin" you, I'm just asking for an example.

Mama's Gun was in no way a slip, if that's what you're insinuating. Whoever put that in your mind has a pretty long stick up their ass, and you'd be wise to help them pull it out before they pollute your brain much more. Mama's Gun is a pretty damn impressive album... there's a lot going on there that separates it both from what's going on in "mainstream" music, and the "soulquarian" sound.

I mean, what is the Soulquarian sound anyway? Voodoo was the first real "soulquarian" record. That sort of set the scene. LWFC came around, and I can sort of see some parallels between the two album's sound, but there's definitely quite a bit of distinction going on. Voodoo was all soul in its sound (genre wise) while Com was on a hip hop/afrobeat/muted jazz mix. Then we have Mama's Gun, which doesn't at all sound like either of the two... I don't hear AD 2000, Penetentiary Philosophy, Cleva, Bag Lady or Kiss Me On My Neck (!) on any of the two aforementioned albums.

And what we have coming - Bilal and Nikka Costa - sounds pretty set aside as well. Hand Me Down and Sometimes as well as Your Love Sent To Me are not only incredible songs, they're INNOVATIVE songs. They've got their own thing going on. I heard a Nikka Costa joint on Brainchild's radio show two weeks ago, something about a tug of war or a rope or something (bad with titles) which blew my mind... didn't sound at all like the typical Soulquarian stuff.

Point out where they've slipped... if I'm nice I'll correct you. :) Seriously, though, I think people are simply talking about the Soulquarians slipping or becoming stale or sounding the same because of the realness that's present in all of it... and I mean that sincerely. They're all different stylistically, but they all have an element of sincerity, of realness to the art that lumps them together - when I hear AD 2000, I often then go and listen to D's Africa because there's a similar realness to both pieces. When I hear Kiss Me On My Neck, it makes me want to go listen to Your Love Sent To Me, because I feel a connection there.... can you feel what I'm sayin? (c) Minnie Ripperton...

-thebigfunk
"And you may ask yourself... what is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself... where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself... Am I right? Am I wrong?
And you may ask yourself... MY GOD! WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!" - "Once In A Lifetime" - Talking Heads

"Trouble in transit/got through the roadblock/we blended with the crowd
We got computer/we're tapping phone lines/I know that ain't allowed
We dress like students/we dress like housewives/or in a suit and a tie
I changed my hairstyle/so many times now/I don't know what I look like!
You make me shiver/I feel so tender/we make a pretty good team
Don't get exhausted/I'll do some driving/you ought to get some sleep
Get you instructions/follow directions/then you should change your address
Maybe tomorrow/Maybe the next day/Whatever you think is best
Burned all my notebooks/What good are notebooks?/They won't help me survive...
My chest is aching/Burns like a furnace/The burning keeps me alive..." - "Life During Wartime" - Talking Heads

SIKE- i agree with most of what ?uest, bigworm and thebigfunk are saying- i think you may be more worried about what might happen if people accept the current soulquarians sound as the end all and be all of music- meaning if the fans aren't hungry enough for the artist to take it to another level then they might not feel the need to progress- but i think one of the reasons the soulaquarians are so successful at creating quality materisal is the fact that while they want to sell records, they are musicians first and they do not sacrafice as much of they're artistic integrity as most recording artists do just to sell records(this is the longest run-on sentence ever constructed!)and when you are making art for yourself then the growth is dependent on what you want to do- not just what the public has to say about it- and while the soulaquarians do have to eat it does not appear that they are just going to stunt they're own growth just because they have a loyal following- they are more than likely ot continue doing what they have been doing which is raising the bar.

peace,

jade foxxx

p.s. i just might have a new signature:

> I mean, ?uest's fro
>is pretty impressive, but I
>don't think he's gonna wave
>his hand and make the
>world a better place.- thebigfunk

I mean.... I think that the three albums they put out are THE three best albums of 2000. (At least three OF them). I also am looking forward to their next projects more than any other artists.

But the more I think about it... I realize that they aren't any good.

Don't get me wrong. They release some of my favorite music. I just don't like them.

Do I make any sense?

Ruining music?

Ahem...

I'm sorry but in my veiw these cats can do no wrong...

As far as i'm concerned the only albums that really stuck in my mind last year apart from a few that had nothing to do with The Soulquarians were the ones that did...LWFC, Voodoo, Mama's Gun and anything that had to do with Jay Dee being on the boards, Fantastic Vol. 2 stays in my crib/car/walkman/everywhere and I was really feelin the joints he did on Q-Tip's Amplified.

If you ask me these cats can only get better at what they do...
The style is so soulful and unique that it could never really stagnate...10 years from now you could throw on a joint from the Common LWFC joint and remember exactly what you were doing when you first bumped it. Thats what their production does for me, their shit is like a musical time machine imprinting your brain with memories, some shit i can zone out to.
As an emcee theres no one i'd like more to handle one of my projects than quest? or jay dee, Poyser always kills it on the keys, and as for D'angelo the kid is a genius.

Point blank them cats are nice.

One
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Ricochet aka Rick Rude aka {You got too many names}

Shouts 2 Da One Shot Fam

Can I get a freakin record deal!!!

F--- a quote.

http://members.blackplanet.com/RickRude

Just wondering, in what ways do you think they are becoming stagnant ?


One
Brook

I
>think that they all got
>soul and got some good
>ideas, but I just don't
>think that much of it
>is really lasting in my
>mind.


the root
green eyes


those two make such an lasting impression on me

The only way I could see them ruining music is by being a few steps ahead of the average sampling, DAT machine, over looped music thats played on air today. The Soulquarians are a fresh of air to black music today. The fact that they've showcased their skills on three of the best albums of the year, and they're the topic of discussion shows how empressive there talents are. It seems like we are in a age where black music is meeting a slow death. And all we have are memories of the O'Jay's, E.W.F., Ohio Players, and Archie Bell to use as reference points of how we at one time, used live music as a avenue to communicate.

Sometimes the only we I can feel real vibes from musical artist is through the sounds of Jazz or Rock and Roll. Both venues which "USED" to be from the creative minds of our people. I feel the Soulquarians maybe reconstucting musical vibes. Like Miles Davis reconstructed a stale Jazz sound and brought it to another level which improved and brought more creative force and energy to other artist and listeners. The Soulquarians are crusaders against these dim creative times.

First off, thanks for not dissin, and bein ignorant and sayin stupid ish, but lemme clarify a few things I might have said wrong at first. What I was attempting to say was, that I think that just because these artists are a breath of fresh air from the current mass-produced garbage on the scene, doesn't necessarily mean that they're really worthy of all the praise that's thrown on them.

You see, just because I liked the albums they put out, and I even think they were among the best albums of the year, doesn't necessarily mean that they are superior albums overall. The last few years in music have really been bad, in my opinion, and they have brought something different to the table, but it's still something that has been brought before. What I'd like to see them do is do some different, out there, stuff. I've just begun to see patterns of their music, that I can pretty much tell if quest or one of the group has had his hand in a project.

It is true that that will always happen to a certain degree, and that there hasn't been much music to judge what they're capable of, but I think of this as a warning that they aren't untouchable, and in all honesty, they haven't yet slipped, but could very well if they become victims of the hype of the people around them. As an artist, when I thought I was tight was when I thought I didn't have to try as hard, and those were the times I noticed people getting better than me. At the times I was unsure of myself, I worked that much harder to become that much better at what I did and consequently I advanced quickly and reached a higher level. I'm just concerned that as artists they may believe that what they do somehow comes naturally and not necessarily because of the constant practice and dedication they had before they became big.

Basically, thats it, I just hope that they can work hard and make some shit that'll blow us all out the water, and this debate won't even have to go on, and though neither side has been proven to be the case, I think they can take it as a warning that maybe they need to get before they start slippin and become one of those groups that had mad potential, but jus faded away.

Much Love, Peace

Keep hittin it up, jus dont hit it with the ignoran ish please

----------------------------------------



"....I'm Healthy, I'm Alive, I can't complain!!"-Aceyalone

"....Anytime you find someone more successful than you are, especially when you are both engaged in the same business-you know they're doing something you aren't."-Malcom X

"...If we smoked out, Hip Hop gon be smoked out, if we doin aiight, Hip Hop gon be doin aiight...We are Hip Hop, me, you, everybody, WE are Hip Hop, so Hip Hop is goin where we goin... SO THE NEXT TIME YOU ASK YOURSELF WHERE HIP HOP IS GOIN, ASK YOURSELF, "WHERE AM I GOIN? HOW AM I DOIN?"-Mos Def

"...if we can't sit at the table, then let's knock the f**kin legs off!!..."-James Foreman, SNCC

"...I'm used to white people tryna rob us, it ain't no new thing, why don't they try stealin some of this poverty..."-Gil Scott-Heron

damn I couldn't agree more, I'm always hearing about them saving the black music scene, which is not only bugged but just untrue... if half the cats just took a little time to research some music beyond The Wall or Sam Goody, they would find great music out there and since when did music not become good or worthy of purchase if it wasn't made after 2000??? What is all this bs about music of the past being for the past? The whole reason why these cats bled their work out of their veins is so we could learn from it, it's still great work. I recently purchased Giant Steps again (I keep losing that damn album, or it gets stolen), and that is better than anything on the market... why are we obsessed with new, new, new??? When it's not nearly as good, good, good??? I think one of the reasons Coltrane was the man was because of his originality, not because he was trying to recreate the wheel! There have always been talented black musicians doing their thing, and always will be, so what you can't buy their disc with a dope Bluenotes look alike cover, with psuedo themes of revolution! So what there are no 'cool' pictures of these one part celestial, one part cool enought to survive amoungst thugs, one part intellectual urbanite, who also happens to own a SP and plays bass here and there, who also dresses cool enough to run wit DeLa, with just a touch of Lenny Kravitz! What the hell does any of this have to do with the music? Has any of these artists released a album on the level of Bitches Brew? 1999? Even Illmatic??? Of course not (well, Momma's Gun is quite another story... illest album out of that camp, along with the bootleg Slum Album, not the watered down released version) but hopefully in time they will. Let's just hope, instead of comparing themselves to the greats, that they will give us time to do it for them (remember Boomerang and blowing your own horn? Find a lot of that on here don't we???). Instead of telling us that your as good as Prince, let us, Prince fans in our own right, make that decision for ourselves. Instead of creating the hype, just live up to it...

why does everyone think that they're trying to 'reinvent the wheel', so to speak. i don't think they are. i think they're just doing what they like. making music. and no offense to these 'current' artists but they ain't no legends...uhhh, at least not yet. so when you pick out these revolutionary acts for comparison then you're picking out about 0.000005% of the music making popluation and saying that, for example, questlove doesn't compare...? if i were eating apples and all the apples had worms in them except for one. then i'm going to eat that one apple and say "damn, that's one tasty apple". i wish more apples were like this one. it may not be the biggest or the juiciest but it sure tastes damn good.

of course it can always come down to the old.."let's see YOU do that shit..." but i don't think that's necessary.

peace

shmooz

"i wanna be a pioneer so trails i blaze"

"hip hop you're the love of my life"

i think they should be praised for their work because it is different. that's why it's so good. it's real. i don't consider people like puffy artists...they're business men and women. kinda like a pseudo artists. they all 'wannabes' the artists but they just don't have the talent. so they sell themselves. i almost consider them two comletely different professions. i see the point you're trying to make but i just don't agree. it's clever thinking but a stupid argument.

peace

shmooz

"i wanna be a pioneer so trails i blaze"

"hip hop you're the love of my life"

feel you in the sense that folks have found their approach, as a group, share a definite set of immediate influences.

and the focus is on production right now, rather than messing with research & development.

to me though, say mos def, never struck me as a dude that get's down with complete abandon.

a variety of traditions, so earnest even in humour, freedom and constraint in that strong nationalism & intellect.

other end of the scale are funky folks like outkast, whom I don't feel overthink things, let ideas breathe.

like the whole funk mob, sensual metaphors abound and earthtone aren't overly concerned with their place/position in the production pantheon.

put ?uestlove and the gang somewhere in the middle, dirty sounds served out of a clean, clear glass.

cause ?uest undeniably is an avid student, into every aspect of what he does, out comes the microscope for technique and intangible things.

carefully constructed songs/albums, an eye always on trying to unite past and future, but it has to bump today.

or perhaps the problem is that the whole crew is into everything..speculation, dunno.

but I can see what you're saying, that paradox of music coming tighter but surprises dwindling.

that's that law of diminishing returns, each hollywood sequel's got to be b-i-g-g-e-r than the last.

which is a commercial, self-defeating excercise, if all you're after is bettering a sucessful formula.
_______________________________

seize your time! - marley/wailers

where'd you find that monster? she beautiful - method man

or dismissed as being "jaded", "brain-washed", "deluded", "a groupie" or any comparable adjective you may want to substitute but, I for, one, am GRATEFUL for the collaborative efforts of the Soulquarians and think they are very committed to bringing back some of the the gut wrenching passion of yesteryear, that has been omitted for quite some time, in recent years.

I cannot express to you how well-rounded their sounds are. I give them props for incorporating classic influences such as Roy Ayers, Stevie Wonder, Noel Pointer, Greg Benson, Bobbie Humphrey, Santana, and so many of the greats that have become before and after them. They've also managed to pull off their slightly new age edge that's unique to them and has quickly become their moniker.

I can proudly say that 80% of the time, I can now pick out a Soulquarian production, by ear, and to me, that speaks volumes about the impact that they are having on music today.

Long live the Soulquarians and I wish them many, many more years of success and opportunities to blow true music lovers away. And I sincerely mean that from the bottom of my heart.

I think we ask our new generation of real artist....including non-soulaquarion ones...to carry too much of the burden created from the commercial overloaded music scene today.

I remember when D came along and ....everyone wanted to crown him as the savior of R&B. And as good as Brown Sugar was...this was a very naive statment because soul(like all genres) has many different facets and D only represented a few.

Same with the Roots, Erykah,etc....

As great or average as you may find these artist to be..(I think they are great)....they will never SAVE their respected genres (not unless the record 3 to 4 albums a year that span several different directions including mainstream) or should we pump ourselves up to expect such a feat.

I'm not sayin' this to belittle their talent, influence, or importance ( because they have a helluva lot of all three...IMO)

I say this to free them of all this unjust pressure to be everything( which can be self-induced if an artist also buys into the hype) in hopes that they continue to bless me with music as they feel it. (cause I believe any good music-first artist will change and develop naturally with time in grade.)

And I avidly agree with Quest as far as their (Soulaquarians) growth...but also would like to add that while growth, development, change is refreshing...its only neccessary (IMO) when an artist's style has saturated his audience and with the natural progression of time.

think about it...while we hate when artist stop progressing and give us the same ole thang....don't we equally hate when they don't give us enough of something that may be uniquely theirs...in efforts to always be different.

Finally, (yeah!!) I think if I put this argument in perspective then you might see my point. While today it seems we always look for that one artist (or this case crew) to carry the load....if you look at the old school soul artist, you'll find that you probably like a myriad of artists who are linked by a common bond of realness but all have distinct sounds....such as Earth, Wind & fire, The Isleys, George Clinton, Maze, etc...now,pick up the greatest hits album from any of em and check how similar some songs sound versus the release dates....these artist took half a decade (sometimes a whole decade) to give the kinda diversity that some of us insist on per album with our modern era artists.....

and for all you that champion Prince for his ability to "do it all"...he 's the exception to the rule ....not becuase he's neccessarily better (not trying to argue if he is or not) but because he doesn't edit himself as much....with all the hits come a bunch of bullshit(imo) to weed through to get to em.........(I'm not hatin'...some of my favorite shit wouldn't have made it if it was the other way around with P)......but that's P....whom ironcially, I think Master P took lessons from as far as putting a whole lot of recordings out with...(ahem!)...lets' call it "relaxed scrutiny." LOL!

CED

We live in a world where our music is run by samples, beat machines, no talent entertainers and ppl who use this music game for finacial gain.
It's a nice break to hear original music that uses actual instruments by ppl that just wanna make good music. They are ARTIST- in the most concentrated sense of the word.

I play too, and there's just something about ppl getting together transferring their life force to instruments. Have you ever be to a jam session with these ppl? Until you have, you wont understand why we praise them why we do.

go 'head...feel some type way!

Goldenlotus
*******************

how can four men + six more individuals ruin the music?

commercialism is ruining music, the RIAA is fucking up the music.

pro-napster. david and goliath. microsoft vs. the feds.


put d', quest, james, and jaydee against the n'syncs, the backstreet boys, sisqo, even o-town, DC etc, r. kelly, musiq whatever...

feeling on your booty vs. the root?
thongs vs. old school panties?

which way are the scales tipping?

if the sq's are so damn stale, why is everyone wondering what they are going to do next?

d' said r/b is just club music....(toronto sun)

10 black folks on a mission. a 10th out of how many acts?

soulquarians need to keep experimenting, take a risk all day long! musically jump of the cliff!

if people are making statements like this now, i want to see what happens when a record drops.

i've got to go, j dilla just showed up via the fedex man.

where's mine....lol

_____________________________________________________________________
"For an actress to be a success she must have the face of Venus, the brains of Minerva, the grace of Terpsichore, the memory of Macaulay, the figure of Juno, and the hide of a rhinoceros." -Ethel Barrymore

Do Not Fuck with Izzus! - some_of_my_best_friends_are_black

I Thought I Told U Not to Fuck with Izzus! some_of_my_best_friends_are_black

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HALLELUJAH! FIRE'S POSTS'LL DO YA!!!

the baby daddy proverb:
Cover yo dick so you won't have to cover yo ass! - my sister

Then who is moving music forward in your opinion?


Representing Central PA

bbs26@juno.com
aim: Brockulus

concert pics: http://www.geocities.com/brockshelley/okppics.html

gotta walk someone somewhere.
will elaborate later.

khimes
OKP orater #2 (qoolquest is #1 with them long ass posts of his!)

I think what the Soulquarians are doing is a wonderful thing for music. To me, the inustry was getting a little too electronic. I know times are rapidly changing, but artists forgot what it was like to have an album that sounded like a 70 minute jam session. I like how ?uest keeps the beat almost perfect (almost because sometimes he slums it to perfection!), making sure that the boat has a good anchor. I like how D'Angelo brought back the virtually dead soul movement with VOODOO. I like how James Poyser has took production to newer heights. And Jay Dee's otherwordly sonic concoctions will leave any sane homosapien with a craving to make beats. Plus you add in the extended family (The Roots, E. Badu, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Bilal, Tip) and you have a melting pot of talent just dying to free our minds. I, for one, can't wait to see what they have in store for us, the faithful consumers. 1st Born Second, Com's new joint, James River, Introducing the Roots, the Soulquarians album, etc. That's a whole lot of shit to digest in one lifetime, much less in 2 years. Are the Soulquarians ruining music? Hell naw! Are they drumming to their own beat (no pun intended, ?uest!), encouraging us to live out, through their music, a "vicarious fantasy"? And how!

K. Himes
Bringing you some of the most eloquent posts this side of qoolquest since 1999

do you think its even possible for music to be ruined?

the more i think about it, the more i realize that historically speaking good music will last and last and last. There seems to be a lot of concern about how hip hop and black music in general is being fucked up by the amreketing machine and greedy business men posing as arts. But isn't man's desire to express himself sonically going to live on regardless? Isn't my love for hip hop going to remain the same even if it goes the way of jazz or rock and roll? Why are we so concerned for this music when this music has been evolving within us for hundreds of years now? who are we to concern ourselves with where it goes, what forms take root and and which forms wither and die? If we are all the fans of art like we claim to be in here we will follow the art, right? Or will we lament over the fact that record companies don't want to support the brand of music we feel is best? Seems like there are more important things in jeopardy. In Florida, they just gave a 14 year old boy life in prison with no parole for a crime he commited when he was 12. I am just saying, can't we let the music look out for itself since it has lasted this long or do we have to perceive every N'Sync/Sisqo collaboration as an insidious plot to destroy black music? I am not saying concern is not in order but I think we got some really vigilante-type mofo's in here who are more concerned about whether Kweli gets airplay then if they right to vote gets taken away (like it did in Florida)


h20

no they aren't, now, but b4 being officially soulq (4 us listeners since "like water...") it was a bit the same: badu's other side of the game-common's all night long (in fact it's the only example i know)
what i'll say is that with LWFC they mastered skills: a song 4 assata his lush (violins) and raw (guitar) at the same time: they never did that b4.
every album they were on was tight: badu is jazz-funk now!
we discovered my fav artist skills: ahmir is so versatile! and wait 4 bilal!
but go 2 d'angelo's page at mtv, then 2 the fela tribute link, listen 2 d'& ? version of "water no get enemy"...exciting!!!
someone said they should establish their "sound"...no! i want 2 be surprised...
only thing i fear is how are they goin 2 work all 2gether on one album: i've seen vibe poster & got scared. too much skills can kill.
hope the electric lady above will guide'em.

yo for real i think this is a great discussion, but i think there is way too much criticism going on, i mean we all agree that they are doing what they feel like doing and thats all we can ask for, i love their shit and i probably always will as long as its from the heart and its dope, thats it. i take every record for what it is, every song for what it is, and i just about always enjoy it, dont take it so seriously and make it a huge issue i mean damn, its art its music its real its soulful its genuine/original its beautiful, relax and enjoy it while you can.

someone said that all producers have a difinitive sound???? yeah right, you can never tell a rza beat from another. he's the illest. bottom line