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Forum nameOkay Artist Archives
Topic subjectJazzies get the fuck off MCA/Motive!
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=19&topic_id=15962
15962, Jazzies get the fuck off MCA/Motive!
Posted by allday, Sat May-26-01 05:35 PM
Mercedes, you weren't kidding about your next journal entry.

I think ya'll should get the hell off of MCA/Motive because it seems as though they aren't doing shit for ya'll but giving you shit.

Take this chance and get the hell off. See if any other labels give you a chance or search for one that suits your needs.

Both of your albums have gotten jerked by MCA. You can continue to give them a chance (what, by album 7??) but the past experience hasn't been good so accept that and move on. Go out and see who wants the Jazzies or go independent.

Fuck, sign to No Limit if you have to! (Cash Money?)

Peace
15963, RE: actually
Posted by madwriter, Sat May-26-01 06:02 PM
Tommy boy jerked them around first when they were a quartet.
just a random bit of Jazzies trivia

The Homelands at http://geocities.com/rl7611

"It's just me and my music/ chillin in a tree/ r-h-y-m-i-n-g"-- Mr. Complex, "Far Away"

"Cool, cause I don't get upset"- Rakim, "Microphone Fiend

"We love because it's the only true adventure."-- Nikki Giovanni, poet.







15964, I think
Posted by Steve, Sat May-26-01 08:38 PM
Mercedes' sentiments in the latest entry are really similiar to what I was reading in the latest Rollingstone about Courtney Love's suit againt Geffen/MCA/Universal/Etc. She talks about "artist development" as being a phony term, and the seven-album contracts as slavery.
Hopefully these things can change so artists like the jazzies can get a better shot at making their music heard.
Well, I can wait for the album, I know it will be great.
Whatever they choice to do, I hope that it works out.


Peace,
Steve
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15965, Ok
Posted by jose3030, Sat May-26-01 09:35 PM
Here's news.
I, didn't even KNOW that Res's album was coming out next month.

Talk about bad ass publicity.

Then .... Kardinal Offishall ?
Then .... other peeps?

MCA sucks.
7 album contract?
What a joke.

Jazzies, go to like Luaka Bop or some other label that will respect your shit and put it out there for the masses.

15966, labelguy would beg to differ on the MCA angle
Posted by dafriquan, Sun May-27-01 12:26 PM
the artists we love the most might not be the easiest artists to sell. going against the grain is not easy.
BUT in the case of the jazzies, i'll put the blame squarely on mca/motive...how come nobody knows about the jazzyfatnastess besides me and a handful of people?
i'm a big fan of the jazzies 'cause they have beautiful voices but production wise the last album could've been better. i don't know who's working on the current album but i hope they get half the attention bilal is getting although his album hasn't even dropped. hopefully at least half the soulquarian involvement that mama's gun had.
somehow i just get the impression that the jazzies are not a priority to both thier camp and their label. not a diss to just my opinion.
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15967, chat'um up
Posted by Malandro, Wed May-30-01 04:15 AM

>...how come nobody
>knows about the jazzyfatnastess besides
>me and a handful of
>people?

thats how i felt about Jill for a min, be the voice in the wilderness, telling people about what they ain't up on yet, Jazzies will get attention

all my dreams..all my dream have become HIV postive/ with rosemarys baby pissing in my face/ and tiny tim sticking his boney penis into my bleeding mind/
-Abiodun Oyewole
15968, RE: Malandro, do your homework
Posted by SirLau, Sat Jun-02-01 04:29 PM
That quote, "All My Dreams..." is actually from Umar Bin Hassan. Right group, wrong member. One time for your mind.

Knowledge Knowledge
15969, RE: Jazzies get the fuck off MCA/Motive!
Posted by coolntheshade, Sun May-27-01 01:28 PM
I'm sure Hidden Beach recording would love to have you. That's who Jill Scott is with. They let their artists express themselves and look what happened to Jilly!

- coolntheshade -
drink a lil' bit of lemonade
15970, potential Jazzy homes
Posted by spirit, Sun May-27-01 02:44 PM
co-signing on the hidden beach recommendation...even though the jazzies don't want to be dubbed "neo-soul', the presence of neo-soul artists widens the possibility for the jazzies as far as more open-minded label homes...

I think going to Hidden Beach, Interscope, Soullife (Sunshine Anderson), or even the allegedly Big Bad Kedar at Motown might be an interesting idea.

Or, here's a radical concept: go indie. Get a deal with an indie distributor like Koch and do for self. The way a lot of majors do it, you'd "be better off doing bad all by yourself".

Good luck any way you pick it.

ps: Everyone go to the audio section of the Jazzies section of this site and check out the newly posted audio (entitled "four lives"). mercedes put the lyrics in a journal entry and i gotta say those are some of the best sung lyrics in the urban genre that i've seen in a minute. QUESTION: have either one of the jazzies seriously considered songwriting for other artists? it's a great source of income and there are a lot of singers with good voices and nothing to say out now.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

The Rebels are coming...be aware...

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux - God is hiding between the notes

"See I'm not in this for the love of hip hop. I'm in it for black people, Fuck Hip Hop!" - Planet Asia, from an interview at http://www.thaformula.com/planetinterview.htm

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15971, they wrote for Toshi Kubota...and Eric Benet too me thinks...n/m
Posted by thebiach, Thu May-31-01 12:07 AM
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15972, being in the stores is the shit
Posted by Vivrant, Sun May-27-01 02:48 PM
maybe im naive, but theres 1000's of people that would love to rot on the racks. its better than having to beg people to listen to your unsigned music.



11/11/01-celebrating 20 years of V I V R A N C E
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15973, RE: Jazzies get the fuck off MCA/Motive!
Posted by guest, Sun May-27-01 04:12 PM
>Fuck, sign to No Limit if
>you have to! (Cash Money?)

Slip N Slide baby!

Just thought I'd throw that in there . . .

Giving you true calcio since 1986

AIM: Marinera81
MAIL: jonah_b27@hotmail.com
15974, Motive/CashMoney/Universal
Posted by sundasill, Sun May-27-01 05:17 PM
awww-shit(c)Pharcyde


MuahhhF#@ckahhs!!" (c)ReDmAN-MalPractice
*Yo what you talkin bout maaaaaaan?*
*barking*
YO! Dis FAH ALLL MY LIVE MUAHFUCKAHHHS!!!
*MUahfuckah*
YAAAAAhhOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
*yahooooo*
What the deal Muahfuckah!!
Chill Muahfukah!!
Lp Bangs all ins yah hood Muahfukah!!
My niggahz smack niggahz like Suge Muahfuckah!!
Label raw reminiscence like Wood Muahfuckah!!
Y'all muahfuckahs try tah block a thorough Muahfuckah!!
Hardshell chicken TacoBell Muahfuckah!!!!
Fuck you models!
You too frail Muahfucker!
I take the fat chick to pay the bail Muahfuckah!
I stay drunk and I don't drink Muahfuckah!
Type niggah to do it b4 he think Muahfuckah!
Bricks and Shaolin watch us link Muahfuckah!!
Stores ah run out paper and ink Muahfuckah!
Eye move before yah eyes can blink Muahfuckah!
Quick like O-Dawg shot the Chink Muaghfuckah!!!
White girls sweat me like Nsync Muahfuckah!!
Yah Mpc's outtah sync MuahFuckah!!
Eye say HE ah MUAHFUCKAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
EYE say SHE ah MUAHFUCKAH!!!!!!!!!!
YO!!
YO!!
EYE say WE dah MUAHFUCKAHS!!!!!!!!!
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UPTOWN MUAHFUCKAHS!!!!!!!!
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Back tah yall Muaghfuckahs wanna ball Muahfuckahs!
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At a club tryin tah buy the bar Muahfuckers!
Catch you for the jewels and the star Muahfuckers!!
Wanna battle dawg we can brawl Muahfuckah!!
Liddle Jamal handle th car Muahfuckah!!
My steel raw like Bradshaw Muahfuckah!!!
The pressure inject Dimerall Muahfuckah!!
Gold diggahs be tryin to trick Muahfuckahs!!!
Baby MaMa's be out to get Muahfuckahs!!
NYPD out tah split Muahfuckahs!!!!
Pump yah veins up for the fix Muahfuckah!!!
Sick Muahfuckahs!
Craz-zee Muahfuckahs!
Off and unplugged A-B-C Muahfuckahs!!
Got toys not from Kay-bee Muaghfuckahs!!
Burn ah hole in your AV's Muahfukah!!
Eye say HE ah MUAHFUCKAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
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YO!!
YO!!
EYE say WE dah MUAHFUCKAHS!!!!!!!!!
EYE say THEY dah MUAHFUCKAHS!!!!!!
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EYE say THEY dah MUAHFUCKAHS!!!!!!
CHI-TOWN MUAHFUCKAHS!!!
DETROIT MUAHFUCKAHS!!
MIAMI MUAHFUCKAHS!!
CANADA MUAHFUCKAHS!!
AND WE OUT!!!!!
THIS FOR ALL MY LIVE MUAGHFUCKAHS OUT THERE!!!!!!
COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://hometown.aol.com/sundasill2/sundasill.html

15975, RE: Jazzies get the fuck off MCA/Motive!
Posted by SPADE, Mon May-28-01 05:34 PM
A choice between coming up with $100,000 and staying on label that don't want you or coming up with twice that and shopping your goodies around. I would choose the second only because it ends the cycle.
15976, whOa
Posted by fire, Tue May-29-01 02:56 AM
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15977, Questions for Mercedes
Posted by Jay, Wed May-30-01 03:17 AM
**This is from a point of love i.e. constructive critisism**

Who owns Motive?

Who's the A&R on this project?

Where's your RADIO single?

Why are you over budget in first place? (I mean you knew what your budget was. You knew they weren't exactly throwing dough at ya'll last album so why would you go over budget?)

Let's be real...I assume for ya'll to be true to yourselves ya'll insist on going against the grain. It's the music BUSINESS. Why on earth do you think a company that's is the BUSINESS of selling records would continue to throw money down the dark hole of unrecoupment. You're budget reflects you're potential return. It's smart business. You want bigger budgets...you want to be able to have your manager pick up the phone and say "Hey we need more spending water"...prove you're worth the risk...become a priority. If you want to be a priority at you're label then YOU are the only one that can make that happen. What have YOU done to say "Hey we're the JAZZYFATNASTEES and we can sell alot of records"? Ya'll have had basically three chances on two different labels to make that statement. (Granted I understand the sharks that swim the waters of Tommy Boy country) Where is your buzz. I know cats scrapin' and strugglin' on indies with bigger buzzes than the Jazzy's. All of that doesn't rest squarely on the shoulders of MCA. So I say again "What do you have for radio?" You ain't gotta sell your soul to get there. (Ask Common, Jill, hell ask ?uest)

Eff what the critics had to say about your last record. Eff what a few fans have to say. (Unless their gonna buy 4 or 5 copies of you're album this time around). Ya'll need to step outside of that circle and deliver something for the rest of the planet. That is of course if you want to stay in the music BUSINESS.

You want your label to deliver the dough...Deliver the goods. Period!







"Who the fuck are the Fugee's Ja_ _ _" - Lyor Cohen on the orginal idea to have Lauryn on the "All I Need" rmx

15978, al capone?
Posted by fire, Wed May-30-01 03:57 AM
d
a
m
n
!
15979, fam
Posted by atruhead, Wed May-30-01 04:39 AM
if the label doesnt smell a hit theyre gonna get tight on the funds. Motive is family of the roots that are basically signed to mca. You could say that if the roots were talent scouts/a&r for a label this would be the result. No one except MCA has control of funding. This group is too hard working to be shorted like this. Without a recording/marketing/video/promotions budget (see: common, the roots, d'angelo, jill) your options are limited



15980, playboy
Posted by Jay, Wed May-30-01 04:55 AM
>if the label doesnt smell a
>hit theyre gonna get tight
>on the funds.

Without a recording/marketing/video/promotions
>budget (see: common, the roots,
>d'angelo, jill) your options are
>limited

Limited to what? Read your first statement.

Common - Previous sales track record, underground hits, college radio support for the 6th Sense, HIT single "The Light".

The Roots - Hardest TOURING/working band in hip-hop, previous sales track record, college radio support for "Adrenaline", HIT single "You Got Me".

D'Angelo - "Brown Sugar" (Need I say more)

Jill - New label (How much more of a priority can you be)

Bottom line...the Jazzy's betta go cop a remix. Hell, have Com or BT spit a verse. Do a duet wit D', ask Jill to write them a HOOK (hint hint), just do something besides...nevermind.

"If it ain't right, it ain't Rush, and it ain't comin' outta this fuckin' building" - Lyor Cohen on unreleased Def Jam material


15981, RE: playboy
Posted by Re_Alief, Wed May-30-01 06:04 AM
MCA froze their minuscule budget. They were about 100 g's from reaching their budget. It seems like they're at the whim of an asshole who's now deciding he wants to NOW just drop 'em!! Obviously they (MCA) saw something in them -- why not be about business and let them finish the album and recoup what they (MCA) put in to them?!

MCA is a crappy "label"!!!

Peace2U,
Alief ~~~> part-time poster
alief@scribble.nu

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15982, RE: playboy
Posted by Jay, Wed May-30-01 07:43 AM
>MCA froze their minuscule budget. They
>were about 100 g's from
>reaching their budget.

But 200,000 from completion so that's 100 grand over budget. BTW since when is 300,000 a tiny budget? Sell units then you can blow dough in the studio.

>It seems
>like they're at the whim
>of an asshole who's now
>deciding he wants to NOW
>just drop 'em!!

No they're at the whim of sombody who knows that after they go over budget on recording, then go through a video, marketing, and promotions budget they'll still have an album that possibly won't recoup MCAs investment. On top of that remember that The Jazzy's are probably still unrecouped from the first album.

Obviously they
>(MCA) saw something in them

Yeah an affiliation with a Grammy award winning group.

>-- why not be about
>business and let them finish
>the album and recoup what
>they (MCA) put in to
>them?!

It is about business and they won't recoup. Most artist on major labels never recoup.

>
>MCA is a crappy "label"!!!
>
What label isn't? I say again music BUSINESS.


"If it ain't right, it ain't Rush, and it ain't comin' outta this fuckin' building" - Lyor Cohen on unreleased Def Jam material


15983, 300,000 aint shit.
Posted by qoolquest, Wed May-30-01 11:00 PM

>BTW since when is 300,000
>a tiny budget? Sell
>units then you can blow
>dough in the studio.


most records cost 800,000-1.5

all of my records have.

well except for organix. and by the sound quality it's quite easy to tell that it was indeed a cheap album.

but no record that is really compeating in the marketplace is doing so for a cheap price.


studio time- most studios run you a few g's. so let's go to a "cheap one" ($1000....and if u lucky to find this? u r the shiznit!)

rental- either you get an advance to buy shit ahead of time or you rent shit. most cats do both. i do both. but i'll go the "cheap" route and rent. this is how studios come up. they charge you for everything from food bill, long distance, keyboards, drums, etc. so if a jazzie record gets made we need a vintage fender rhodes ($180) a triton ($130) a 2000xl ($150) drum rental, cause i aint luggin my shit down there ($300). outboard gear aint neccessary, but round here, if you aint racking up sales you better be a critic darling, and critics love creativity and mind expanding sounds so throw in some eventide units, moogerfoogers, et al ($800)

talent- i love the world but i have bills too. and if i'm drumming on your shit that's cash. and if i produce? that's more cash, and engineering? fahgetahboutit! but i love the jazzies so i cut em a break. ($3000).....

but there are other cats too...

soulquarian expenses (cats who play on some okay favorites. favor prices) ($9000)

someone got to produce this jawn right? timberland costs about ($200,000) so there is your whole budget right there. but this is favors for jazzies so im sure they can get a cat for like ($15,000)

mixing a song. (rome wasn't built in a day. and unless you doin a "? vs. scratch" skit a song takes 3 days to track. let alone mix! so we have to rent studio, engineer, and gear. lot's of time flying background vocals in. mixing engineers are more expensive than tracking engineer (bob, russ the dragon, et al) ($6000)

pay off radio to play it ($100,000)

promote it ($30,000)

video?!?!? (90,000...good video? $300,000)


that was just one song.

multiply that by songs on an album

300,000 aint shit!







the source mic ratings 1990-2001


@@@@@
-edutainment (funny in the annivrsery issue they left this out...but i have the ice cube issue when they first started rating albums)
-people's instintive travels and the paths of rhythm
-amerikkka's most wanted
-let the rhythm hit em
-all for one
-de la soul is dead
-the low end theory
-illmatic
-life after death
-aquemini
-niggaz4life* (not reveiwed but in summer issue 92 they mentioned it as a 5mic classic)

@@@@1/2
-sex and violence
-buisiness as usual
-business never personal
-whut thee album
-breaking atoms
-death certifacate
-buhloone mindstate
-the chronic
-enter the 36 chambers
-southernplayerlisticadillacmusic
-ready to die
-the infamous
-only built 4 cuban links
-illadelph halflife
-hell on earth
-bow down
-i am
-murder muzick
-life story
-classic limited edition vol 1
-guerilla warfare
-in my lifetime vol.3
-la rock familia
-ecleftic:two sides to a story
-moment of truth
-supreame clientel
-last of a dying breed
-the truth

the gag mics-
fear of a black planet-@@@1/2
da shinin-@@@
stankonia-@@@@
lootpack-@@1/2
ressurection-@@@1/2
the beatnuts-@@@1/2**
mos def and talib kweli are black star-@@@1/2
the love movement-@@@1/2
fantastic vol 2-@@@1/2
midnight maurauders- @@@@

*-source never reviewed, but mentioned in summer issue that it was a 5 mic classic.

**-the only record to change a rating after printing. in the next issue they printed (in fine print that it was a @@@@ mic album)



15984, RE: 300,000 aint shit.
Posted by Scrapluv, Thu May-31-01 02:18 AM
>that was just one song.
>
>multiply that by songs on an
>album
>
>300,000 aint shit!


Damn, what about those albums with 17-23 tracks????? Dats Money like a MF!!!!



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15985, recording budget or album fund
Posted by Jay, Thu May-31-01 03:08 AM
Mercedes said it was their recording budget...$300,000

Now if that was the whole album fund including marketing, video, promotion etc...well they were doomed from jump.


"Who the fuck are the Fugees Jason!!!" - Lyor Cohen on the orginal idea to have Lauryn on the "All I Need" rmx

15986, youre the fucking man
Posted by Vivrant, Thu May-31-01 05:34 AM
"pay off the radio to play it"....for that line alone right there.
15987, he mentioned that before too...
Posted by Brandard, Thu May-31-01 05:44 AM
was it in the Talib letter to 3rd Rail...

anyway ?uest said something about "You Got Me" and money to get it played.

I'll go archive digging later
15988, trust
Posted by qoolquest, Sat Jun-02-01 11:56 PM
since it's against the law. you have to hire a "promo" man. who will charge you a fee for "NQA" (no questions asked) that way someone does dirty deed and u the label dont get involved in no ilegal shit like payola (drugs, money, favors, sex, women, free concert tix, etc.)









the source mic ratings 1990-2001


@@@@@
-edutainment (funny in the annivrsery issue they left this out...but i have the ice cube issue when they first started rating albums)
-people's instintive travels and the paths of rhythm
-amerikkka's most wanted
-let the rhythm hit em
-all for one
-de la soul is dead
-the low end theory
-illmatic
-life after death
-aquemini
-niggaz4life* (not reveiwed but in summer issue 92 they mentioned it as a 5mic classic)

@@@@1/2
-sex and violence
-buisiness as usual
-business never personal
-whut thee album
-breaking atoms
-death certifacate
-buhloone mindstate
-the chronic
-enter the 36 chambers
-southernplayerlisticadillacmusic
-ready to die
-the infamous
-only built 4 cuban links
-illadelph halflife
-hell on earth
-bow down
-i am
-murder muzick
-life story
-classic limited edition vol 1
-guerilla warfare
-in my lifetime vol.3
-la rock familia
-ecleftic:two sides to a story
-moment of truth
-supreame clientel
-last of a dying breed
-the truth

the gag mics-
fear of a black planet-@@@1/2
da shinin-@@@
stankonia-@@@@
lootpack-@@1/2
ressurection-@@@1/2
the beatnuts-@@@1/2**
mos def and talib kweli are black star-@@@1/2
the love movement-@@@1/2
fantastic vol 2-@@@1/2
midnight maurauders- @@@@

*-source never reviewed, but mentioned in summer issue that it was a 5 mic classic.

**-the only record to change a rating after printing. in the next issue they printed (in fine print that it was a @@@@ mic album)



15989, cut corners
Posted by Ape Redwood, Thu May-31-01 10:26 AM
aint that what all this new music technology is for?

Yes, I know it compromises the sound, but there is a middle ground. Extensive at-home pre-production is the key. Write all the shit at home (they might already do this). Fuck all the live shit. Use samplers at home, just dont be lazy. We all know you can approximate live drums if you're nice and willing to put in the work (long sequencer loops, slightly different hihat/kick/snare sounds throughout the drum loop, some nice reverb). Live bass-----scratch it. Either loop the guy or use keyboard sounds. Loop the keys, the guitars, etc. Record and sequence all of the looped shit at home/home studio/Roots home studio.

Only leave solo/embellishment/salad dressing/icing on the cake instruments live. Record these instruments and vocals in a nice studio. Use Pro Tools with the vocals and the live instruments----COPY AND PASTE! fuck it. at least for the hooks. Outkast did it for Ms. Jackson and Fresh Clean and it sounds god damn good. Also, use up-and-comers, stay away from the name-brand cats, nice as they may be. This goes for musicians and engineers. We all know there are some nice cats fiending to get on for a low price (like me!!!! lemme coil up some RCA's fo ya ).

15990, pre production is underrated...I agree
Posted by dafriquan, Sun Jun-03-01 07:19 AM
i'm in the process of recording my single right now and i'm learning lessons. this cost a lot of cash!
but most importantly i have realised the importance of pre-production. i did some pre-production at home that saved me about four hours in the studio. time is money
you can build an excellent home studio for less than $60,000 including sound proofing. i've talked to many engineers and their advice has always been do what you can at home and bring it in for the vocals and mixing. according to them sonically there won't be much difference because they can "beef" it up. and in the days of digital transfer, you don't have to beef up shit anyway..it's all 1s and 0s.
sound quality did not prevent "Come Clean" by Jeru from being an underground classic. listen to the album it sound like they did eveything in 22,050Hz!
alot of dope independent albums were made for under $100,000 including promotion. and they went on to sell more than 30,000 copies. do the math they made a fat profit.
SIGNATURE STARTS YONDER
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15991, math problems
Posted by spirit, Thu May-31-01 01:51 PM
Quest,

Surely you realize that plenty of labels that aren't majors pump out loads of quality product with projects with budgets $300,000 and less, right?

And the $100,000 for independent radio promoters gets blown on the single, not every song on the record.

but all of this is elementary. when you find out your budget is $300,000, you and your management have to be congnizant of one or two possibilities (a) we will be able to make this record, through miracuous sacrifice and we need to plan how we'll make it through OR (b) we're fucked from jump and they have no intention of letting us succeed. then there's option (c): maybe if we give them the right songs, they'll up our budget midway through recording, which does happen. and apparently is what happened here. record, record, record, hope the budget gets boosted later on.

Jay has a very vital point. The Jazzies have to do something to make themselves a priority at MCA. I'm not going to play manager here and make a list of suggestions (or maybe I will, but not detailed suggestions). In any case, Jay is absolutely correct that the size of your budget is pretty much directly proportionate to how much the label figures you'll make them back.

i don't see the jazzies on any major tours. i tried to book the jazzies to come to DC and the booking agent was talking $10,000. helpful hint: reduce that fee because it's not happening considering how few records JFN has sold. and, yeah, the booking agent mentioned tour support from the label co-funding that fee, but you know what? MCA ain't gonna give out tour support forever, as you can see now. if the situation is as desperate as described, JFN should be damn near performing for free to just to get more exposure. for touring to have impact, you have to hit markets more than once, blah blah blah. you all know all of this, I'm sure.

what about touring europe? japan? releasing white labels undercover? more cameos?

SOMETHING.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

The Rebels are coming...be aware...

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux - God is hiding between the notes

I make art as a humble attempt to communicate with God and make sense of the millions of random actions that form our universe.

Shockwave intro of the moment - http://www.onebadsista.com
15992, co-sign
Posted by urbgriot, Fri Jun-01-01 09:21 AM
peace..
15993, wrath of my mathness
Posted by qoolquest, Sun Jun-03-01 11:31 PM
>Quest,
>
>Surely you realize that plenty of
>labels that aren't majors pump
>out loads of quality product
>with projects with budgets $300,000
>and less, right?


but how many of those joints you hear on the radio/video 24/7. and at the end of the day....hey j dilla's fantastic vol 1 is one of my favorite all time classics but if you dont make the label money you are outta there!

and yes....even "the blast" cost mad loot to push.






>And the $100,000 for independent radio
>promoters gets blown on the
>single, not every song on
>the record.

i meant singles.

but even still my point was that $300,000 aint shit in the world of music making. today that can bearly get you a half decent hype video.







>but all of this is elementary.
>when you find out your
>budget is $300,000, you and
>your management have to be
>congnizant of one or two
>possibilities (a) we will be
>able to make this record,
>through miracuous sacrifice and we
>need to plan how we'll
>make it through OR

well short of the jazzies making everyone go lower than what they charge already ?(im sure most cats on this record are taking a half L already) if we sacrifice anymore the cops might question us for the bloodshed (bad bible joke)



(b)
>we're fucked from jump and
>they have no intention of
>letting us succeed. then there's
>option

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!



(c): maybe if we
>give them the right songs,
>they'll up our budget midway
>through recording, which does happen.
>and apparently is what happened
>here. record, record, record, hope
>the budget gets boosted later
>on.

im sorry but you will never convince me that "good songs" magically get on the radio out the kindness of some programmers heart.

mca has never pushed the jazzies to radio to even see if they were getting "felt" in the first place.

at least tell em "hey we have the jazzies".

i bet right now 90% of the label dont even know merce and trace's first names.







>Jay has a very vital point.
>The Jazzies have to do
>something to make themselves a
>priority at MCA.

we did everything within the bounds of the law.....

matter of fact we pulled some suge shit too.

but what do you suggest?





I'm not
>going to play manager here
>and make a list of
>suggestions (or maybe I will,
>but not detailed suggestions). In
>any case, Jay is absolutely
>correct that the size of
>your budget is pretty much
>directly proportionate to how much
>the label figures you'll make
>them back.

i for one thinks he didn't listen to the product to begin with.
mind you this is the man that would not let us snag jill.




>i don't see the jazzies on
>any major tours.

who they gonna open for?
lil bow wow?
destiny's child?
us?

this all goes hand in hand. they can't tour cause no one knows their material like that. the double dutch game of entry position music world is a fast tough one.






i tried
>to book the jazzies to
>come to DC and the
>booking agent was talking $10,000.


spirit. you are one of the few players/vets i respect.
no way in hell this convo was had. and if it was then as a promoter you should know that cats will always come in higher than what is norm.

it's called haggling.


you have to tell me verbatim how you got that figure.




>helpful hint: reduce that fee
>because it's not happening considering
>how few records JFN has
>sold. and, yeah, the booking
>agent mentioned tour support from
>the label co-funding that fee,
>but you know what? MCA
>ain't gonna give out tour
>support forever, as you can
>see now. if the situation
>is as desperate as described,
>JFN should be damn near
>performing for free to just
>to get more exposure.

i'll give you one better.

they pay to put on black lily every week!

they pay.

and now that new york is back in effect come sunday the 10th. shit will run us in the hole. (til you know who comes out with another album)



>what about touring europe?

planefare for my trip to italy 2 weeks back: $2000
hotel: $190/night

multiply that by two jazzies
a tourmanager
a 3 piece band
a roadie/soundguy






japan? $4000 ticket


releasing
>white labels undercover?
shit costs too much money!!!!!!!!!!!



more cameos?
they are on every motive related record.




>SOMETHING.

anything!


the source mic ratings 1990-2001


@@@@@
-edutainment (funny in the annivrsery issue they left this out...but i have the ice cube issue when they first started rating albums)
-people's instintive travels and the paths of rhythm
-amerikkka's most wanted
-let the rhythm hit em
-all for one
-de la soul is dead
-the low end theory
-illmatic
-life after death
-aquemini
-niggaz4life* (not reveiwed but in summer issue 92 they mentioned it as a 5mic classic)

@@@@1/2
-sex and violence
-buisiness as usual
-business never personal
-whut thee album
-breaking atoms
-death certifacate
-buhloone mindstate
-the chronic
-enter the 36 chambers
-southernplayerlisticadillacmusic
-ready to die
-the infamous
-only built 4 cuban links
-illadelph halflife
-hell on earth
-bow down
-i am
-murder muzick
-life story
-classic limited edition vol 1
-guerilla warfare
-in my lifetime vol.3
-la rock familia
-ecleftic:two sides to a story
-moment of truth
-supreame clientel
-last of a dying breed
-the truth

the gag mics-
fear of a black planet-@@@1/2
da shinin-@@@
stankonia-@@@@
lootpack-@@1/2
ressurection-@@@1/2
the beatnuts-@@@1/2**
mos def and talib kweli are black star-@@@1/2
the love movement-@@@1/2
fantastic vol 2-@@@1/2
midnight maurauders- @@@@

*-source never reviewed, but mentioned in summer issue that it was a 5 mic classic.

**-the only record to change a rating after printing. in the next issue they printed (in fine print that it was a @@@@ mic album)



15994, haggling??????
Posted by fatlip, Mon Jun-04-01 03:58 AM
>and if it was then as a promoter you
>should know that cats will always come
>in higher than what is norm.

i'll say.

>it's called haggling.

inbox.










I'm the offspring of spring,
reborn pledged and sworn,
the risen edge of a flag burned and torn.
I'm the blood of the womb,
the risen tide of the moon,
the darkside that the light cannot hide.
I'm the pages of history
read between the lines,
the living truth behind your symbols and signs.
I'm the son of a minister,
love of a teacher,
my mother taught me well, so I rebel.
-Saul Williams "Om Nia Merican"


15995, RE: 300,000 aint shit.
Posted by guest, Sun Jun-03-01 08:11 AM
word... you ever heard those peeps on mp3.com? there's a reason why they all sound wack- all their tracks were made for about $50. The only person who can make money sellin' shit out their trunk is someone like DJ Clue, who jacks other people's trax, and yells "ha-ha!" over the track, to make it "his own" (an x-clue-sive). You need money to sound good. Fuck the "digital revolution". That just means everyone else sounds better, so you gotta spend more money, b/c you can't get away with producing on some wack analog shit and nobody noticing. Mad love, quest.
-e
15996, RE: 300,000 aint shit.
Posted by feetsadiq, Tue Jun-05-01 05:14 AM
bless you quest for postin that yo...it opened a few eyes Im sure
15997, oh yeah
Posted by Jay, Wed May-30-01 05:01 AM
>Motive
>is family of the roots
>that are basically signed to
>mca.

So is it a Label or a cutesy logo/production deal thing.

>You could say
>that if the roots were
>talent scouts/a&r for a label
>this would be the result.

And if this is the case...they need to start taking a more hands on approach cause it looks like they are headed for three back to back to back flops.


"Who the fuck are the Fugee's Ja_ _ _" - Lyor Cohen on the orginal idea to have Lauryn on the "All I Need" rmx

15998, hands on?
Posted by atruhead, Wed May-30-01 06:05 AM
theyve paid their dues. weekly gigs for the majority of going on 2 years, they've put on some good shows, they have a fan base in new york, philly, dc, and maybe a few other cities. But that relatively small fan base isnt enough to convince mca that they will be big sellers (all that matters to mca), therefore the label acts like corporate capitalist assholes


15999, RE: hands on?
Posted by Jay, Wed May-30-01 07:32 AM
The Roots as Motive founders not the Jazzys. I understand that they gig every week but...it's basically the same gig every week so that doesn't count.

>theyve paid their dues. weekly
>gigs for the majority of
>going on 2 years, they've
>put on some good shows,
>they have a fan base
>in new york, philly, dc,
>and maybe a few other
>cities.

But that relatively
>small fan base isnt enough
>to convince mca that they
>will be big sellers (all
>that matters to mca)

Nope. You said the key thing relatively SMALL.

, therefore
>the label acts like corporate
>capitalist assholes

I say again music BUSINESS.



"Who the fuck are the Fugee's Ja_ _ _" - Lyor Cohen on the orginal idea to have Lauryn on the "All I Need" rmx

16000, if they gonna pay their dues
Posted by UrbanCowgRRL, Thu May-31-01 08:03 AM
they need to REALLY tour..this east coast shit is for the birds...before the roots hit grammy shit, they were everywhere! I've never seen the jazzy's out side of the coasts...that ain't no fan base.

Much love,
Kyle

go vote for me, cause i'm extreme and deserve to be on TV..oh yeah, and i'll buy tara something too :7

http://bluetorch.tv/host/voteforme.asp?id=41472

****************************************
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Want that incredible deep post of yours or your friends archived, email me through the boards...Or use the handy private message button
****************************************
16001, co-sign
Posted by spirit, Thu May-31-01 01:54 PM
...and I found it hilarious that someone finds gigging once a week to be strenous touring. you heard of a little band called The Roots, right? 200 nights a year...something like that was what the brothers were averaging. THAT is strenuous touring.

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

The Rebels are coming...be aware...

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux - God is hiding between the notes

I make art as a humble attempt to communicate with God and make sense of the millions of random actions that form our universe.

Shockwave intro of the moment - http://www.onebadsista.com
16002, come come now
Posted by qoolquest, Sun Jun-03-01 11:35 PM
the roots also had TOUR SUPPORT!
y'all sounding like okayyoungins
you think merce and tray are like:

m: you know we should tour
t: nah let's chill
m: bet!


the source mic ratings 1990-2001


@@@@@
-edutainment (funny in the annivrsery issue they left this out...but i have the ice cube issue when they first started rating albums)
-people's instintive travels and the paths of rhythm
-amerikkka's most wanted
-let the rhythm hit em
-all for one
-de la soul is dead
-the low end theory
-illmatic
-life after death
-aquemini
-niggaz4life* (not reveiwed but in summer issue 92 they mentioned it as a 5mic classic)

@@@@1/2
-sex and violence
-buisiness as usual
-business never personal
-whut thee album
-breaking atoms
-death certifacate
-buhloone mindstate
-the chronic
-enter the 36 chambers
-southernplayerlisticadillacmusic
-ready to die
-the infamous
-only built 4 cuban links
-illadelph halflife
-hell on earth
-bow down
-i am
-murder muzick
-life story
-classic limited edition vol 1
-guerilla warfare
-in my lifetime vol.3
-la rock familia
-ecleftic:two sides to a story
-moment of truth
-supreame clientel
-last of a dying breed
-the truth

the gag mics-
fear of a black planet-@@@1/2
da shinin-@@@
stankonia-@@@@
lootpack-@@1/2
ressurection-@@@1/2
the beatnuts-@@@1/2**
mos def and talib kweli are black star-@@@1/2
the love movement-@@@1/2
fantastic vol 2-@@@1/2
midnight maurauders- @@@@

*-source never reviewed, but mentioned in summer issue that it was a 5 mic classic.

**-the only record to change a rating after printing. in the next issue they printed (in fine print that it was a @@@@ mic album)



16003, y'all ain't always have tour support...
Posted by ILLWILL, Mon Jun-04-01 12:04 AM
it ain't like you were able to sell out small venues when organix was around...y'all had to work for your fanbase

ILLWILL Lives Forever

TheFlatliners:
ILLWILL
Mosaic
Contagious

~back from the dead, BITCH!!!~
16004, or did you?
Posted by ILLWILL, Mon Jun-04-01 12:06 AM
err...i wasn't there, so i'm no expert on the subject

ILLWILL Lives Forever

TheFlatliners:
ILLWILL
Mosaic
Contagious

~back from the dead, BITCH!!!~
16005, lol!!!
Posted by qoolquest, Tue Jun-05-01 12:17 AM
again. we are a rare bird. if merce and trace played piano well the it would just be those two on the road 24/7 at both ends of the piano. but no dice. they need a band.

the roots= mc and band in one package
jazzies= singers with no band.


the source mic ratings 1990-2001


@@@@@
-edutainment (funny in the annivrsery issue they left this out...but i have the ice cube issue when they first started rating albums)
-people's instintive travels and the paths of rhythm
-amerikkka's most wanted
-let the rhythm hit em
-all for one
-de la soul is dead
-the low end theory
-illmatic
-life after death
-aquemini
-niggaz4life* (not reveiwed but in summer issue 92 they mentioned it as a 5mic classic)

@@@@1/2
-sex and violence
-buisiness as usual
-business never personal
-whut thee album
-breaking atoms
-death certifacate
-buhloone mindstate
-the chronic
-enter the 36 chambers
-southernplayerlisticadillacmusic
-ready to die
-the infamous
-only built 4 cuban links
-illadelph halflife
-hell on earth
-bow down
-i am
-murder muzick
-life story
-classic limited edition vol 1
-guerilla warfare
-in my lifetime vol.3
-la rock familia
-ecleftic:two sides to a story
-moment of truth
-supreame clientel
-last of a dying breed
-the truth

the gag mics-
fear of a black planet-@@@1/2
da shinin-@@@
stankonia-@@@@
lootpack-@@1/2
ressurection-@@@1/2
the beatnuts-@@@1/2**
mos def and talib kweli are black star-@@@1/2
the love movement-@@@1/2
fantastic vol 2-@@@1/2
midnight maurauders- @@@@

*-source never reviewed, but mentioned in summer issue that it was a 5 mic classic.

**-the only record to change a rating after printing. in the next issue they printed (in fine print that it was a @@@@ mic album)



16006, That kind of ish ticks me off!!
Posted by Ailyha, Wed May-30-01 05:08 AM
Seems like MCA is playing a dirty game. I got a lil depressed reading that journal entry. I feel their pain in a similar way. Just stay strong, Jazzyfats!!
peace
a

Please, just hurt my feelings a lil fuckin' more, okaybastard?

"All this racial idealism bothers me, because no one wants to keep it real! Wrote a poem about it, here it go..." - Spicy Mic Night 2001

If we had to depend on Black folks to support us, we'd starve to death - a paraphrase from mo' betta blues or some spike lee joint...

Anybody remember those black drat commercials?

Just call me Big Horny. Yeah, that's right!

All these mugmuckin' haters, got to shake dem off!

Serenity Now, Serenity Now! - Jerry Stiller
16007, im on the case
Posted by atruhead, Wed May-30-01 05:11 AM
nm
16008, RE: Jazzies get the fuck off MCA/Motive!
Posted by okaysouthafrican, Wed May-30-01 05:57 AM
obviously the jazzies can't take anything we say here seriously, because i've yet to hear an "expert" opinion on this board, if such a thing exists in the music business. that's my point. there are people within record companies, international and local, who look for the experts to predict trends, or create trends, and base the years budget upon those factors. if you don't fit the model, or aren't a proven sales winner, then you don't get the financial support.

take u2 for example. they don't neccesarily fit the boy band trend, or whatever is going on, but they switched over to interscope because with their status they can get the support. however, since the mergers in '99, interscope is still under polygram, so they didn't really switch labels, so to speak. but in america, interscope will not put up the money to release singles for u2, because it is a cost risk (with the exception of "elevation" because it's on the tomb raider soundtrack and has a flashy video that they need to recoup on.) but u2's representation in europe (island?, i believe, still) will put out all the singles they can because there is a market, a financial motive. interscope's only motive at this time is to make singles and videos that serve as commercials for a movie that i guarantee was produced by a related film company.

so if i have an opinion on the jazzies situation, it's go independent. make less money but keep more of it. of course it's not always that simple, because there is less money to produce album's with, but obviously it's not working w/ a minimajor.

my apologies to all that this is so fucking longwinded.

phil

"Compassion is the sometimes fatal capacity for feeling what
it's like to live inside somebody else's skin.

It is the knowledge that there can never really be any
peace and joy for me until there is peace and joy finally
for you too."
-Frederick Buechner
16009, fucked up
Posted by LexM, Wed May-30-01 07:39 AM
that's what it is...

I hope that they get the recognition they deserve second time around...

(and just in case y'all are reading, I'm diggin "four lives"...not weird at all)




~~~SPITFIRE (NEW DATE): AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
Wanna know more? Hit me up: carameldom@hotmail.com
(((check the flyers: http://www.geocities.com/bmorestreetwise/flyers.html)))

http://www.welcome.to/okaypoets (u ain't a real okayplayer if u ain't been here)

"cats pop champagne/over misery and pain/like slaves on the ship/talkin 'bout/who got the flyest chains" ~~Talib Kweli

"you can't fool me! I'm too stupid!" (c) a random warner bros. cartoon character
16010, one thing to say
Posted by fire, Wed May-30-01 09:07 AM
instead of doing pre-production/rough vocals in a major $tudio, why not find a nice un-cozy corner to do all u're shit until it's time to do the last vocal recordings? studios take up a CHUNK of money AND there are a MILLION starving, talented musicians that would be happy to play on a "major" groups album, sometimes u gotta step outside u're cirlce to get to your secret square, nahmean?

and that's just constructive realism, not criticism

__________________________________________________________________
Celebrating May as Prince Month at Okayplayer dot com

"i wish music could adopt me" - the e double

"pulp fiction? this forum must be dumb nigger storage." - mcbadfeet on niggas

keepers of the funk:
http://www.geocities.com/firefire100



16011, Yeah
Posted by urbgriot, Wed May-30-01 10:11 AM
Kaygee spent like $10,000 in production for Next wackasses and Arista recouped so much that Clive signed Kaygee's label to J records...

peace..
16012, Hmm definately makes sense
Posted by Jay, Wed May-30-01 10:17 AM
But who am I to talk I "obviously" don't know what I'm talking about.

16013, yeah but he owns his own studio...
Posted by thebiach, Thu May-31-01 12:19 AM
...produced it himself...obviously he wouldn't charge himself for studio time...and by delivering it so cheap he probably made HUGE dividends on the return...

nic...

"Just cuz we hate your punk ass that don't make you no player!"--Freddie Foxxx

"There are two types of people who oppose pornography -- people who don't know what they're talking about and those who don't know what they're missing."--Larry Flynt

"Anyway I say, white people is the flour, black people is the chocolate chips, asians is the eggs, and latinos is the butter. We should all get together and make cookies." --jumecca

"Just kickin' back with the Get Helskt Crew"--The BiACH

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Wessyde Okayplayer shoutouts: missrose, Loopfactor, chrisnotic, sonar360, the_fifth, Mindstorm, daze, Framamind, Apostle, keroline, Nickelz45, mikeONE, Ghax, Tannaz, thisisme, mojotaters, BooDaah, calgrl04, bfly07, Candy1, Bolo_Kid, Jawn_Coke, missphillippinethang, beautifulpeace, DelightfulT, Quidom, delsbrothergeorge, lakerzphan, esclavo, PRYM8, rocketeer, ssk, starrchild2012, man
16014, Hmm seems like a no brainer
Posted by Jay, Wed May-30-01 10:15 AM
But who am I to talk I "obviously" don't know what I'm talking about.

16015, see
Posted by fire, Wed May-30-01 10:48 AM
if u're hungry u go to the ends of the earth (or philly) and find the most low budget studio w/good equipment, take yo band and get u're music on.

shit, i recorded in crenshaw & a roach infested apartment on the outer edges of the bronx, it don't get no more gangster than that.
16016, pssst. hey you, fire...could be a long shot
Posted by JNOTA, Wed May-30-01 07:53 PM
did you ever record in perth amboy(i see your from nj and work in low budget spots) i heard this guy in the barbershop talking about some r&b work hes been doing in the studio above the barbershop. he had something to do with sony, he had a video tape of some type of sony showcase(nobody ive ever heard of on the tape)
anyway, i told you its a longshot! (but that low budget studio advice you gave was... reality. thats the way to get the job done)


aimname: jnota7
----------------------------------------
"we put language in zoos to observe caged thought and toss peanuts and p funk at intellect. and motherfuckers think these are metaphors, i speak what i see, all words and worlds are metaphors of me" -saul williams
----------------------------------------

16017, great minds toots
Posted by Ape Redwood, Thu May-31-01 11:08 AM
Where can I hear ur stuff
16018, read my post
Posted by dafriquan, Sun Jun-03-01 09:28 AM
if i read yours i wouldn't have posted mine. we on the same track...that's enough dough to build two oe three studios.

>instead of doing pre-production/rough vocals in
>a major $tudio, why not
>find a nice un-cozy corner
>to do all u're shit
>until it's time to do
>the last vocal recordings?
>studios take up a CHUNK
>of money AND there are
>a MILLION starving, talented musicians
>that would be happy to
>play on a "major" groups
>album, sometimes u gotta step
>outside u're cirlce to get
>to your secret square, nahmean?
>
>
>and that's just constructive realism, not
>criticism
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>Celebrating May as Prince Month at
>Okayplayer dot com
>
>"i wish music could adopt me"
>- the e double
>
>"pulp fiction? this forum must
>be dumb nigger storage." -
>mcbadfeet on niggas
>
>keepers of the funk:
>http://www.geocities.com/firefire100


SIGNATURE STARTS YONDER
effasig4now...
**************************
:-)NE LOVE/N:-(LOVE
(THE C:PHICE IS Y:9URS)
**************************
The emoticon as 'O' symbol is a registered trademark of dafriquan.
No biting without written permission.
*************************

16019, Master P
Posted by urbgriot, Wed May-30-01 10:36 AM
Sold shit out the trunk..
16020, RE: Master P
Posted by Scrapluv, Wed May-30-01 11:51 AM
>Sold shit out the trunk..

And he's still sellin "shit" 2day


Feel my "Notic" shit
http://members.blackplanet.com/babyfacedbandit

"Touch Dis, El-e-phant, Dyn-a-mite!!!" :)

"I know I'm twisted, but fuck it...I like it like dat" - Scrapluv

"One day, I WILL be featured, but for now...I'll just lay the chorus" - Scrapluv
16021, The Business of Music
Posted by allday, Thu May-31-01 04:41 PM
The Music industry is a crazy place! Being on okayplayer really shows non-industry people how the business is really tough.

The touring. The label. Money. Exposure. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I always wondered how much artists actually make off of a record.

Eff music, I'm going to declare for the NBA Draft...
16022, TRY COLLEGE
Posted by spirit, Sat Jun-02-01 10:44 AM
>Eff music, I'm going to declare
>for the NBA Draft...

the odds of you making an NBA team are so long, you might as well play the lottery. try college...

Thoughtfully yours,

Spirit Equality

The Rebels are coming...be aware...

http://www.mp3.com/miscellaneousflux - God is hiding between the notes

I make art as a humble attempt to communicate with God and make sense of the millions of random actions that form our universe.

Shockwave intro of the moment - http://www.onebadsista.com
16023, if every aspiring player...
Posted by Hot_Damali, Mon Jun-04-01 04:31 AM
>the odds of you making an
>NBA team are so long,
>you might as well play
>the lottery. try college...

...subscribed to that philosophy, the NBA would be a ghost town...of course he should go to college but he has the same chance of being drafted as everyone else who enters...as long as he's good.


Underground Railroad w/Jay Smooth
WBAI-FM 99.5 NY
Sat 12-2am
http://www.hiphopmusic.com

"You know you all read the Dyke Chronicles, you just don't reply!" - LeroyBumpkin @ the reunion *nervous laughter from the crowd followed*
16024, can anyone
Posted by sonyasimone, Sun Jun-03-01 11:06 AM
tell me how many copies T.O & F. sold?
I'm doing a marketing plan for one of my classes on the JFNs and I can't find this info anywhere...thanks!




>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<
you can't hide from yourself
everywhere you go
there you are

(TP)
16025, 60K
Posted by sonyasimone, Sun Jun-03-01 12:05 PM
never mind

mca is ridiculous




>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<
you can't hide from yourself
everywhere you go
there you are

(TP)
16026, if so
Posted by krewcial, Tue Jun-05-01 05:34 AM
It shouldn't be a problem to find a decent smaller label with a good budget with that amount of copies sold.

If not in the US, why not Europe ?


krewcial