Well, I got Honeydrop to think. That makes me happy, you know, getting people to think. I didn't expect to change any minds because real change comes slow. The kind of change that happens overnight is the kind that's undone the next night. So I should call it a day, be satisfied and shut up.<P>But I'm enjoying this discussion too much. So I say to Nahymsa: I so much agree with you on so many of these issues.<P>When I see an interracial couple walking down the street, holding hands, I smile. I hope they pick up my vibe and I hope it makes them feel less nervous. Because I've been there and people will make life so uncomfortable. As much as love can block out the negative world, those moments are still only temporary, only oases while crossing a desert of animosity. And ultimately, interracial couples don't want to live in this kind of delusion, they don't want to be constantly separated from the world. They want to love each other comfortably within the world. So I smile.<P>At the same time, I'm often worried because I understand that black women are made ugly by this society. And that since this society places so much focus on the physical, no man in his "right mind" would be seen with some dark skinned sista. I worry if the brotha I see is sincere in his relationship with that white woman or does he think that she's more beautiful than black women in general. Does he think he's escaping his blackness, elevating himself somehow by being with this white woman. I smile because I think the best of people, but I'm so damned cynical, I too often question the sincerity of the brotha. But I don't know him, or his situation so I'm not going to judge. Because the only difference between him dating a white woman and me dating a white woman is that I know my motives, my awareness increases every day and I trust my sincerity.<P>And for the record, I've not gone out with ONE evil, overbearing, hard-to-deal-with, or whateva-else-these-brothas-are-running-into type black woman...can't say I've even known one really. So for all you brothas saying you can't find a good black woman, you're either making excuses or looking in the wrong places. If you sincerely want to limit yourself to black women, keep looking, they're out there.<P>But Nahymsa, you speak of love and marriage like they are the same thing. You speak as if just because I love someone I should marry them. I love my brother. I love my mother, have a respect for her that increases every day as I encounter a new situation and realized one more thing she did for me. I love black women. I love their strength in the face of the overwhelming adversity they've met in this country. I love the beauty and dignity they've maintained in the face of the ugliness that has been shat upon them. I love, respect and appreciate the power with which they have raised this black nation, in so many cases without the support or assistance of a black father or community. As with my mother, I love black women more each day as I find out more about them. This alone, does not mean I should marry a black woman. These are not the only factors to consider in a mate.<P>And while this kind of strength is important for me when looking for someone to support me when I need it and my children should I have any, fact is, black women have not cornered the market on this kind of strength. Certainly because of our cultural proximity, black men are most likely to recognized and appreciate the strength of black women, but for anyone who explores different cultures (myself) the struggles and strengths are there to appreciate. That's why when Cnote says:<P>"the world is changing, people are finding the beauty in other cultures."<P>And you say: <P>"Or maybe its that some brothas can't recognize the beauty WITHIN black women and their own culture."<P>I must say:<P>Or maybe the world is changing and people are finding the beauty in other cultures. <P>I do recognize the beauty within black women. This does not mean that I disregard the beauty in nonblack women. And it seems that's what you ask me to do. To, when I see the strength and beauty and personality and power in some woman who is not black, disregard my intuition, abandon what I know and the awareness I have and convince myself that the only beauty is black beauty. Trust me, nothing good comes when we dwell in ignorance (of our intuition or in general).<P>Question: why is it that nonblack men don't marry/date BLACK women in the numbers that black men date/marry nonblack women?<P>Answer: Because black beauty is not generally recognized. In this society so obsessed with physical appearance (instead of things like culture, tradition, morality, intelligence, kindness, compassion, etc.) it makes no sense that any man, black or white, choose an "ugly" black woman as their mate.<P>This saddens me so much because it is so true that there is a white standard of beauty. Some people see it as insecurity or meanness when a black woman feels hurt or gets mad to find HER face systematically removed from the definition of beauty or when she sees a black man with a white woman. This is not insecurity, it is self-defense and very well founded.<P>So Honeydrop, don't believe your feelings are insecure or irrational, please.<P>All I can say is please understand that though sometimes (many times) it's about this white beauty standard thing, that's not always the case. There may only be one situation where you will see a black man with a white woman and that is not the case (my situation) but please take whatever solace you can in that. Because I'm not going to abandon my happiness for something that in a right-thinking world shouldn't be an issue in the first place. I don't think that's the right sacrifice to make, I don't think that's the right place to focus my energies. My power will be focused on, not changing the media, but getting people to, at least in some ways, abandon the media. Take back the power you've given to the media. KILL YOUR TELEVISION. I'm serious. The real world looks so much brighter and more beautiful (and television so much faker) after six months without one.<P>Question: Why is it that the lightest of our community are considered the prettiest while blonde & blue eyed is still considered the epitome of beauty in theirs?<P>Answer: The good old boy system. The media is still primarily responsible for the way this country views beauty. The media is still controlled primarily by white people so they are going to, of course, portray their opinion of beauty (blonde/blue, light skinned blacks). Even those blacks who've made it into the media have made it only because the good old boy system allows them in (overtly or covertly). So the only blacks that have really been allowed to make an impact on the media have been the light skinned, permed out, euro-featured ones in large part.<P>My question: when will some brothas stop putting every other type of woman up on a pedastal and start LOVING black women the way other races of men apparently love their own? Or when will more black men start loving the women who LOOK like their mamas, look like their sisters, and look like themselves?<P>My Answer: that's a tough one. Really. The first thing that's going to have to happen is the perception of black women as "ugly" is going to have to be undone. And you're going to have to do more than beat sense into brothas to accomplish that. You've going to have to undo the media. Stop the little voices that tell us what beauty is and is not. Really though, this will not lead black men directly into the arms of black women. It will only create a situation where you can trust the sincerity of a black man when he chooses a white woman (which he will do). I think one of the greatest compassions black folk have is their ability to love regardless of race (because we know how hurtful it is to be shunned for no other reason than race). Still, at this point, I recognize that the flocking of some black men to white women is not sprung from that general compassion. That it comes from the confusion about what true beauty is.<P>As to when black men start loving women who look like their mamas, et. al... Well, looks aren't everything. I've always been a rebel (read contrary). I've also always been very cerebral. So while other kids were out smoking behind the school, I was focusing on changing my ideologies from the norm (just out of spite, you know). When I recognized how much this society focuses on physical beauty, I decided not to, that I would look for more, I'd look past the physical. Eventually I was able to reconcile this with a more realistic, less spiteful view. I've learned to appreciate the physical form, but after the enlightenment I've had, it will never be the most important aspect to me. Pigmentation is a physical manifestation. Culture is not. The psyche created by others reactions to that pigmentation is not. So yes, there are hard differences between black women and other women, but it's not the skin color. I'm of the mindset that looks past large, petite, tall, short, "ugly," "pretty," and the skin color of the person (who, of course is built partly of the reactions to their skin color). So I don't think it's necessarily a virtue to love someone who looks like yourself.<P>After proofreading this (yep, I do that, I'm a writer, it's habit), I don't agree with how harshly I've addressed the sincerity of interracial couples. Thinking back on who I've known and what I've seen, I do believe that far more interracial couples are sincere than those who are not.<P>That's my word. Hit me back with questions.<P><BR>b. well<P>box<P>-"You alone consider mercy after seem like all you get is pain.<BR>It seem to me that you have found the courage that others could not find.<BR>You alone have the wisdom to take this world and make it what it need to be, want to be, will be someday, you'll see the day<BR>The day you understand why there ain't no such thing as a superman."<P>-Gil Scott-Heron