Okay, I know this is a dead topic, but nothing else going on now. Why was/is Common targeted as being homophobic for a few lines. Obviously it has to do with him being a “conscious” artists. But heres the question. The Roots, Mos Def, Goodie Mob (obviously), etc etc, all similar artists have said similar things and aren’t targeted like common was. (maybe Goodie might have caught as much hell as common but that’s is) So why is Common targeted, and do you think he’ll put forth effort on furure work to avoid the ‘homophobia’

Peace,
Total…

hm. Didn't he spit some homophobic bars on "Doin' It"?

P.S.: Mos Def? Where?

RE:DEFinition:

Cats who claimin they hard be mad fags
so I run through 'em like flood water through sandbags

Common definately has more anti-gay or homophobic lyrics than Mos Def. I can't recall the Roots having any.

re:definition

>RE:DEFinition:
>
>Cats who claimin they hard be
>mad fags
>so I run through 'em like
>flood water through sandbags
>
>Common definately has more anti-gay or
>homophobic lyrics than Mos Def.
> I can't recall the
>Roots having any.

In my opinion the problem is whether these cats really think like that(and I guess Common really does) or use it for "stylistic" reasons (which is damn bullshit as well). Moreover I think that being "conscious" doesn't go with being a homophob. That just doesn't work.

my question is what is homophobia? a phobia is a fear. what's wrong with common saying there's rumors of gay mc's just don't come around me wit it. i mean straight people don't condone homosexuality.homophobia in my opinion is like a gender form of racism.for example i hate faggots(em said that but he was being sarcastic).there's nothing wrong with somebody disliking someone's lifestyle.

there's
>nothing wrong with somebody disliking
>someone's lifestyle.

hah! reall>!>! SO when someone says :I hate faggots", whether they were being sarcastic or not is ok cause there nuthing wrong wit "disliking someones lifestyle". I think it would suit better by saying "I disagree with you being gay" or "your homosexuality" rather than stating straight out "I hate gays!"

I disagree with your post :-P

There's a huge difference between "I hate faggots" and disliking someone's lifestyle. Suppose somebody claimed that they were expressing their dislike for hip-hop or graf by saying "I hate ni----s". You can disagree with someone's lifestyle without hating them as a person.

1

________________________________________

"I am the IZ equals IZ..."
DOVE

"I don't give a fuck who you are / so fuck who you are"
STYLES

"I'm to(o) fly not to(o) fly"
SAUL WILLIAMS

I think the difference has to be with Com's persona, and how he is perceived, versus someone like the Roots or Mos Def. Some cats think Com carries himself like he is enlightened, wise and tolerant, so anti-gay lyrics seem like hypocrisy in that light.

Although Mos and the Roots might be accused of the same thing, for some reason I don't think they self-project this sense of enlightenment or wisdom to the same degree that Com does. I dunno how to verbalize it better than that...

But those cats, really almost every rapper, has made anti-gay comments at one point or another. I think people like to pick on Com because of what may seem like "holier-than-thou" persona, same thing with Lauryn.

peace

Iz

________________________________________

"I am the IZ equals IZ..."
DOVE

"I don't give a fuck who you are / so fuck who you are"
STYLES

"I'm to(o) fly not to(o) fly"
SAUL WILLIAMS

same shit.... but again, they did catch wreck for saying that stuff (its 90%-100% Khujo anyway)

I totally agree.

The difference for me between Com's "In a circle of faggots, yo name is mentioned" and Mos's "Cats who clamin' they hard be mad fags", is that Mos seems a little more detached from the original, hateful meaning of the word. Com emphasizes faggot, making it sound as if he intends it to refer to gay people in a derogatory manner.

That being said, it sucks either way; I'm not a fan of Mos saying it, I just think he's being careless while Com's being intolerant.

i read somewhere (i think on com's site) that he uses it because he's from chicago. coming from there myself, it makes sense. it's a word that gets thrown around a lot. it might not have the same meaning for com as it does for other people. i know i might call a friend of mine a fag for pulling a joke on me. it's kind of like saying punk or sucker or something. i definitely don't go running around calling openly gay people fags as a an insult. i'll actually censor myself around a gay person. i'm not saying it's right, though.

the funniest thing is that Common says homophobic shit while wearing orange knit hat and a rupaul fur coat.

another thing. just because someone says "fag" it doesn't necessarily mean they are talking about homosexuals but yall already knew that right?
-----
"If somebody told me I had only one hour to live, I'd spend it choking a white man. I'd do it nice and slow." - Miles Davis

http://www.trickology.com - we got titties!

Read my first post (#4). I know what you mean, but "fag" means "fag".

fag means "fag", but it also means punk, herb, idiot, sell out, and wanna-be. You call friends these things sometimes in a playful mannerk, knowing they aren't really a "fag", punk, herb, idiot, sell out, or wanna-be.

>
>another thing. just because someone
>says "fag" it doesn't necessarily
>mean they are talking about
>homosexuals but yall already knew
>that right?
and when a white person says nigger they're really talking about an ignorant person...

Memoirs of a Smart Azz

Fave Smart Azz Move: The Exaggerated Eye Roll
You know the kind, the one where only the whites of your eyes show and your eyelids flutter really fast. Usually accompanied with slow motion neck movements and the phrase, "Don't be rolling your eyes at me."

its possible, but MOST likely not.

"the funniest thing is that Common says homophobic shit while wearing orange knit hat and a rupaul fur coat."

See, there YOu go with some homphobic shit, he's gay because he wears orange and a fur coat? I know you were just kidding and I laughed with you, but I gotta point it out.

if we can not use irony then the terrorist have won.
-----
"If somebody told me I had only one hour to live, I'd spend it choking a white man. I'd do it nice and slow." - Miles Davis

http://www.trickology.com - we got titties!

Good lord man, I was just pointing out some unconscious comments. This wasn't a check for Al-Quada. What does that mean anyway?
Does anybody know what this guy is talking about?

He was consciously pointing out that Common has a lot of bad things to say about gay people, but dresses pretty flamboyantly, which should open him up for the same type of comments that he throws around at other people. He was basically calling Common kinda a hypocrite.

Nasty like the freaky deaky at your local sleazy speakeasy - MF Doom

>another thing. just because someone
>says "fag" it doesn't necessarily
>mean they are talking about
>homosexuals but yall already knew
>that right?

so, does "nigger" not refer to only blacks now? regardless of what is meant by the term "fag," it is a horrible, derogatory
word that should never be used.

Who made it horrible and derogatory? Where did the word originate? Was a straight guy disgusted at a gay guy and just decided to call him a faggot? Where did this word come from? I always thought that faggot simply meant gay, that if a person was gay then he was a faggot. just a simple equals equation, gay=faggot. I saw the derogatory part come in when you called a straight person a faggot. That would be derogatory to a straight person because he is not gay. So, what I'm asking sis, whats the origin and history of this word?

last line should be: So what I'm asking IS, whats the origin and history of this word(faggot)?

it was a typo, honest.

"is a bundle of sticks equated with a gay man?

In the inquisition of Europe, when witches were
being burned, among those sought out for
burning were gay people. They were required to
gather the very "bundles of sticks" (the real
meaning of a faggot) with which they would be
burnt. When the faggots (sticks) were running
out, gay men were thrown on the fire to keep it
going for the witches. Faggot came to mean gay
man to force them into the closet for fear of
death. Scary, huh? Think about what you are
saying -- who you are offending when say this
word, even if in jest to a friend."

aiight I've heard enough. I aint sayin' the word no mo', no matter how dope a rhyme I could make with it and the word maggot. If that origin is correct, then I understand the problem with the word. When I wanna talk about a bundle of sticks, I'll just say "sticks." When I wanna talk about a gay person, I'll just say "gay" or "homosexual." Cool? I'm willing to control my tounge, but I aint tryin to censor hip-hop artists. A lot of them might think twice if they knew the history of the word though. Maybe not though, cause a lot of them think that its wrong to be homosexual in the first place, as do I. I aint hatin' them though cause I do a lot of stuff thats wrong in the first place. If you do stuff that is wrong, just admit it. You dont see drug addicts protesting cause we call them crack heads. Sure it might be extremely hard for a gay person to stop participating in homosexual activities, but that doesn't mean its right. Its extremely hard for a drug addict to stop using drugs. Does that make using drugs right? I dont wanna hear none of that do you want some one to call you "nigger" stuff, because being African-American isn't wrong. Taking part in homosexual activities is wrong. But like I said, we're all human and none of us deserve to be hung b/c of our personal vices.

I'm not scared of homos, I just don't agree with their lifestyle. Maybe Common and the others mentioned feel the same way. We have a right to feel the way we feel, just as gay people have a right to be gay. It's becoming fashionable now to hype up gayness in general. Personally, I don't like it one damn bit. Respect gays as human beings?:definitely. Accept their behavior?:never.
I can co-exist with gay people without "embracing" them. Gay people need to start living their lives and stop worrying about who accepts them or not.


I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>I'm not scared of homos, I
>just don't agree with their
>lifestyle. Maybe Common and
>the others mentioned feel the
>same way. We have
>a right to feel the
>way we feel, just as
>gay people have a right
>to be gay. It's
>becoming fashionable now to hype
>up gayness in general.
>Personally, I don't like it
>one damn bit. Respect
>gays as human beings?:definitely.
>Accept their behavior?:never.
>I can co-exist with gay people
>without "embracing" them. Gay
>people need to start living
>their lives and stop worrying
>about who accepts them or
>not.

-That's an interesing way of looking at things. To me being gay is not a right it just is. (I am not gay by the way) It's like being black, or a woman, or having 1 leg or being blind. I don't think anyone would ever choose to be persecuted and hated. What if I said I could co-exist with Asian people without "embracing" them? I would be called a racist. Racism is fueled by fear. I guess you don't have to go out a hug a gay man, but if you don't accept their behavior don't expect anyone to accept yours either. Maybe I don't want to see you with your tounge down some girl's throat at the movies. Maybe gays are "disgusted" with your hetero ways. Remember that they are as gay as you are straight. Did you "decide" that you liked girls? Think about it.

>

i fully agree

>
>-That's an interesing way of looking
>at things. To me
>being gay is not a
>right it just is. (I
>am not gay by the
>way) It's like being
>black, or a woman, or
>having 1 leg or being
>blind. I don't think
>anyone would ever choose to
>be persecuted and hated.
>What if I said I
>could co-exist with Asian people
>without "embracing" them? I
>would be called a racist.
> Racism is fueled by
>fear. I guess you
>don't have to go out
>a hug a gay man,
>but if you don't accept
>their behavior don't expect anyone
>to accept yours either.
>Maybe I don't want to
>see you with your tounge
>down some girl's throat at
>the movies. Maybe gays
>are "disgusted" with your hetero
>ways. Remember that they
>are as gay as you
>are straight. Did you
>"decide" that you liked girls?
> Think about it.
>

good.

bring it all home, man. I got your back. This post did make me think that it would be powerful for me to point out that I am also not gay or lesbian, just concerned at the ignorance and closed-mindedness of people who I would think would share the same interest in progressive politics and a caring society.
My mother is a lesbian tho, and I would ask any black proponents of Com's use of the word fag to think of how they would feel if I dropped rhymes using the N-word. That attacks your mother, your father, your whole lineage and people. So, where does that leave you using the word F-A-G?!?!?

I still do not buy the concept that homosexuality is natural, and consequently it is not equivolent to race or gender. Even if their is legitimate research that says there are gay genes (which is highly disputable) that still doesn't make it acceptable. I mean people are born with genes that make them more susceptible to being murders and committing all kinds of degenerate acts.

>I still do not buy the
>concept that homosexuality is natural,
>and consequently it is not
>equivolent to race or gender.
> Even if their is
>legitimate research that says there
>are gay genes (which is
>highly disputable) that still doesn't
>make it acceptable. I mean
>people are born with genes
>that make them more susceptible
>to being murders and committing
>all kinds of degenerate acts.
>
Some genes make people say stupid things

have genes that make people not accept someone elses point of view even if that person has presented their point of view in a non violent or degrating manner
peace
w/love
dusty
fka daveyg

you may think i'm an idiot, well guess what....I AM

http://www.geocities.com/lilgilby/stuff.html

>have genes that make people not
>accept someone elses point of
>view even if that person
>has presented their point of
>view in a non violent
>or degrating manner

It's not the manner. I could easily call you a moron in as very polite manner. It's the content. Don't ask for acceptance if you refuse to accept other people.

Who asked for acceptance?

i accept rapists, i accept drug addicts, that does not mean i think the things they do are right, nor do i condone those actions...it is a struggle to seperate sin (something we are all guilty of) from the sinner...
peace
w/love
dusty
fka daveyg

you may think i'm an idiot, well guess what....I AM

http://www.geocities.com/lilgilby/stuff.html

I mean to say accept it to be OK.

>i accept rapists, i accept drug
>addicts, that does not mean
>i think the things they
>do are right, nor do
>i condone those actions...it is
>a struggle to seperate sin
>(something we are all guilty
>of) from the sinner...
>peace
>w/love
>dusty
>fka daveyg
>
>you may think i'm an idiot,
>well guess what....I AM
>
>http://www.geocities.com/lilgilby/stuff.html
tru...tru...

since when is being gay similar to killing a human being. it's a SEXUAL PREFERENCE!!

isn't the increase in Aids related to homosexuality

>isn't the increase in Aids related
>to homosexuality

no, it's related to a lack of knowledge and education.

perhaps b/c of uneducated people like yourself.

>perhaps b/c of uneducated people like
>yourself.

thanks a lot, but that was wack. Grow up boy.

Explain...or maybe you just go from forum to forum criticizing ideals without any intention of substantiating claims of your own. Are you suggesting that there are not genes that make individuals more prone to being criminals. Or do you just follow the trends of this great nation?

>Explain...or maybe you just go from
>forum to forum criticizing ideals
>without any intention of substantiating
>claims of your own.

I criticize bullshit.

>Are you suggesting that there are
>not genes that make individuals
>more prone to being criminals.

this is bullshit.

> Or do you just
>follow the trends of this
>great nation?

I'm European.

So you are telling me that even if I could prove that gays have no choice you still feel that what they are going is wrong? That's just plain ignorance to me. That's like me showing you the sky is blue but you telling me its red just to argue with me.

As for Murders and degenerates, being homosexual is no where in the same ballpark. Being gay doesn't hurt anyone! They aren't doing it to hurt you. They just don't want to be beat up in the streets and called names by people.

isn't the increase in Aids related to homosexuality? gays shouldt be beat up. if you could prove to me that gays are born gay with no choice at all, then i would feel more sympathetic toward them. I dont buy it though, i think they have a choice. it might even be like a drug. some people are born with an inclination to become addicted to something. they dont become addicted until they actually use the substance enough to become addicted. so i can buy that some are born with an inclination to be gay, but they dont become gay until they give in to the temptation and get hooked. I'm not saying that being gay is the exact same as being hooked on crack. I'm saying that there are similarities, such as inability to stop the action. I think that once a person gives in to their prone to be gay genes, its very very difficult to become straight. I say this from the personal experience of seeing a gay guy fight and struggle stop giving in to the temptation to sleep with men. He is now married to a woman and the temptation is only a very very small percentage of what it used to be. Most of the time the temptation is not even present. He has overcome the "inclination to be gay" genes or whatever you want to call it. So I think gay people do have a choice, even if its a very difficult choice. I know lots of addicts, so I sympathize with gays on that level.

To be straight?

c'mon man. look at the nature of human beings. look at the nature of animals in this universe. Its obvious that nature intended for females and males to be sexual partners. Look at the reproductive process, look at biology, look at human body parts and it all shows that females and males were meant to be sexual partners. Science is right there with the proof. Compare the holes required for heterosexual and homosexual intercourse. You have the vagina and you have the anus. Its obvious without even getting into details of biology that the anus' is not meant for sexual intercourse and reproduction. The anus was not made for a penis to penetrate. It may bring pleasure, but a lot of things that weren't meant to be done bring pleasure.

Just b/c it brings pleasure doesn't mean its right. And I aint judging anybody, I'm just telling the truth. I do things that weren't meant to be done b/c they bring pleasure, so I cant hate on anybody else who does it including homosexuals. Yes, I CHOOSE to participate in heterosexual activities, I CHOOSE the chicas and not the chicos. Maybe that choice is a whole lot easier for me than somebody else, but I still make that choice. I'm not denying that someone can't be strongly attracted to the same sex from an early age. I am denying the opinion that nothing can be done about this strong attraction. You can choose to not be homosexual, point blank, i've seen the choose be made with my own eyes. I've seen a homosexual choose that he wasn't going to be heterosexual. I've posted this earlier. The guy had an EXTREMELY difficult time withdrawing from his homosexuality, but he did it.

I dont think that a gay person should be discriminated against, harrassed, beaten, slandered, killed, or mistreated in ANYWAY, they are human-beings. To do that is hypocritic b/c we all do shit that we weren't meant to do. I sympathize with the homosexual who feels that he has no choice b/c I no what addiction is like, its like you have no choice. Those who choose to continue their homosexual lifestyle without trying to do anything about it have the right to do that, but dont keep saying you don't have a choice. Sure that choice to change maybe hard as hell, but its still there. An alcoholics choice to change is hard as hell, but its still there. A heterosexual addicted to certain types of heterosexual activities choice to change is hard as hell, but that choice is still there. There is help once you make this choice, I know son, I know.

in the second paragraph, the second to last sentence should read, "I've seen a homosexual choose that he wasn't going to be homosexual."

Wearing clothes isn't natural, and I'm DOWN to wear some clothes.

What you're describing is homophobia... its not neccesarily hate, but it is fear.

--
Jesse Thorn / Host
The Sound of Young America
Thursdays 5-6 PM KZSC 88.1 Santa Cruz

Metro Santa Cruz "Best Radio Personality" 2002

"California is drowning, and I live down by the river." -- Swamp Dogg

How so?

I've found that "it's not natural" = "it makes me uncomfortable"/"it's outside of my realm of experience"/"it scares me"

I don't see any of these people who say "it's not natural" eating roots and berries for lunch. Unpack that and you'll find that it means it doesn't fit into their idea of a social norm. And the other is feared.

--
Jesse Thorn / Host
The Sound of Young America
Thursdays 5-6 PM KZSC 88.1 Santa Cruz

Metro Santa Cruz "Best Radio Personality" 2002

"California is drowning, and I live down by the river." -- Swamp Dogg

Nasty like the freaky deaky at your local sleazy speakeasy - MF Doom

Damn man!!! are you comparing one man falling in love with another man to murder and "other degenerate acts?"

Do we then accept and embrace murderers because they didn't choose to be born with genes that make them prone to murder? So your born with genes that make you prone to be gay. That doesn't mean straight people have to embrace your behavior. Will I slander a gay person, never. Will I hit or attack(verbally or physically a gay person), never. Will I cringe or think thats disgusting when I see two gay guys kissing, I cant help it. Just like gay people claim they cant help being gay, I find it difficult to not get a queezy stomach when I see gays together. Again I repeat, I would not hurt a gay person physically or emotionally because he/she is gay. I will even fight against people who do hurt people because they are gay. I will not, however, agree with or like the idea that you have to be gay or that it is natural. I can dislike and disagree with your sexuality without being unjust toward you as a person. Just because I won't be your best friend doesn't mean I have to be unjust towards you. Its your business. You mind yours and dont worry about what others THINK, agree with, like or dislkike. Thats their business. You should worry about others who want to hurt you physically or emotionally though. My point is everyone is entitled to their beliefs, gay or straight, without being beaten down or hurt because of it. If those beliefs start to hurt the population though, then something should be done. Your only entitled to your beliefs and rights, as long as they dont harm others' lives.

the point of the message that I posted was not to put gays in the same category as killer, but to say that the genes argument can be used to justify several different things. The bottomline is just because your born with a certain tendency that doesn't in itself justify it when put into action or lifestyle.

People co-exist on a daily without embracing oneanother and not necessarily based on race,sex or sexual preference.
Just look at your unruly neighbor or the people you work with. Although you may not like them or the way they live their lives you still co-exist with them.

good point

First of all, I'd like to reiterate that I believe in personal freedom. Secondly, racism:a doctrine or belief that one race, especially one's own, is superior to another. I don't think I'm superior to gays, we're all human beings. ALL I SAID WAS THAT I DON'T AGREE WITH THEIR LIFESTYLE. And, if an artist doesn't agree with that lifestyle, he should be able to express his OPINION. And please stop making parallels between the Black struggle and the gay struggle. Your grandma might slap you for that. The only way anyone knows you're gay is if you tell 'em. They know I'm Black when I walk in the room. And I have yet to see a job app. that has a space for "Gay".
As far as the kissing in public thing, I don't really like to see that from anyone, hetero or homo. Get a room!!! All I was trying to say was, I can co-exist, be humane and decent, and treat ALL human beings with kindness and respect. I still talk to dudes I grew up with that are employed in the "pharmaceutical" trade. But, I don't agree with what they do. And I tell 'em every day. That doesn't mean I hate them.





I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

right on!

Also, just you mentioning "..I'm not gay." proves my point for me. You tell me about homophobia, but you're so quick to scream that you're not gay. If you really believed what you wrote, you would have no need to distinguish your sexual preference. A straight person that's secure doesn't have to go around saying "I'm not gay".


I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>Also, just you mentioning "..I'm not
>gay." proves my point for
>me. You tell me
>about homophobia, but you're so
>quick to scream that you're
>not gay. If you
>really believed what you wrote,
>you would have no need
>to distinguish your sexual preference.
> A straight person that's
>secure doesn't have to go
>around saying "I'm not gay".
>
>
>tru...tru...

I'm not gay. I'll say it today, tommorow, and next week. I'll say it when I feel like it and how many times I feel like it. You shouldn't try to make someone feel guilty because they say they're not gay. Gays dont want people to make them feel guilty because they say they're gay. That does happen often. But, 2 wrongs dont make a right. Saying your straight doesn't mean your insecure it means you want the people your talking too to know that you're straight. I'm a ball player. I'm down to earth. I'm hard working. I'm thoughtful. And by the way, I'm as straight as a sista's hair right after a perm.

it's like this.i wouldn't discriminate or hate a gay person in anyway.there are people who beat up gay people for no reason and that's just sick. but people always wanna bring up race to try to make people understand the issue.if elton john is cool with the word faggot being thrown around in hip-hop,other gays should to.
shit,nigga's never gonna leave our collective vocabulary,so we got somethin in common with gays. life ain't fair,get over it.

you hit it right on the head. Why must we accept everything?

>you hit it right on the
>head. Why must we accept
>everything?

You're right. You don't have to accept everything. For instance, I don't accept the things you say.

How profound...you amaze me with every message you post.

>How profound...you amaze me with every
>message you post.

You're welcome.

OK . . . I understand, I understand. You say people should just go their seperate ways like that, some kind of sexual seperationism, but in terms homophobic lyrics: Noone can argue with me on this one, and I hate to bring it up because it's sucha poor metaphor, but would it ever be allowed for a white rapper to use the N-word in the context that Common uses the word fag? INvariabley the answer is no, and so in that sense there should be some sort of question as to Common's use of the word fag.
I think in the end Common's just some dude who writes some poems and records them sometimes. If oyu don't like it, don't buy it. If oyu don't like it, tell somebody, come online and post about it. IN the end, ultimately, all Common's doing is making himself sound more ignorant. That's his prerogative . . .If that's how he wants to go out . . .

so he's ignorant b/c he doesn't feel bound to agree with everything, makes sense.... riiighhht.

"so he's ignorant b/c he doesn't feel bound to agree with everything, makes sense.... riiighhht. "

As I've already said numerous times on this board, there is a major, important, crucial difference between "not agreeing with everything" and using the word 'fag.'
Personally, I do not think that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, or is the son of god. In fact, lets just say for the sake of arguing that i don't even believe in god. So that puts me in disagreement with something (see above). However, that doesn't mean that it's cool for me to make fun of, or hurt people who do believe in the aforementioned things.
When Common uses terms like 'fag' it's more than a simple disagreement, or incongruency in principles. It's an ignorant, baseless, cruel, offensive, silly attack on 10% percent of the population: white black white christian hindu -------> and those are only the ones out of the closet!!!!!

HOMOPHOBIA IS NOT THE FEAR OF HOMOSEXUALS

Homophobia is the fear that you may "switched" into a gay lifestyle. Or even that you fear you may be influenced into being gay by other gays. Exposure to gays causes gayness, etc.

For a bunch of peeps who can spit mad shit about knowledge, poetry and rap....yall dont look up the REAL definitons.

Homo = same or similar
Phobia = fear and/OR unwaranted paranoia

I have never met one homophobe who actually was afraid of gay men...

"LOOK GUYS ITS THE GAY MEN...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!"

But, I have met many homophobes who are scared shitless if "dat gay shit will rub off on ya"

A necrophobe does not fear the dead, he fears dying and all things experiencing death.

Marinate on that for a bit.

"I choreograph seven steps to Heaven; in hell, waiting to exhale, and make the bread leaven" -Common

how you gon' break us down on the definition of a slang term?

I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

a nigger is an ignorant person,therefore if you are not ignorant you are not a nigger.
a faggot is a derogatory term for a homosexual person.
gay is a term for a homosexual person.

what's the difference? a black person is not a nigger because they are black. no matter what term you use that describes a gay person it still means they're gay. some of them may prefer to be called people who live an alternative lifestyle even as opposed to "gay".

really, some think of the term gay as offensive. now thats just being too picky and sensitive. what do homosexuals want to be called? let me know and thats what i'll call you? is "homosexuals" what they prefer? c'mon give me something. if we could replace all the "faggots" in artists' lyrics with "homosexuals" would homosexuals be satisfied then?

Common is far from ignorant. If he said beat up, murder, and/or discriminate against homosexuals, then he'd be ignorant. If he or another rapper says, "if the next fad was hip-hop fags/you'd see a lot of these thug niggas in drag/believe that," then they're expressing their opinion. they're not saying its cool to discriminate against gays, theyre saying i disagree with the gay lifestyle. Although we don't have a right to discriminate, we do have a right to disagree.

thank you

>I can co-exist with gay people
>without "embracing" them. Gay
>people need to start living
>their lives and stop worrying
>about who accepts them or
>not.

have you ever thought that not only "gays" are worried about the use of the word, "faggot." i am a heterosexual, and it saddens me to hear comments like these: "I can co-exist with gay people without 'embracing' them." you may not be "scared" of homosexuals, but you certainly don't understand them.

I have NO desire to understand them.

I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>I have NO desire to understand

>them.



so you admit your ignorance towards homosexuals?? one should not disrespect an aspect of a human being if he/she does not understand it. if an asian man went up to an african-american and said, "i have NO desire to understand blacks," would you be offended? i would. im drawing a parallel here to make people understand that until they can understand homosexuals, they cannot/should not judge or make assumptions about them. yes, you can disagree with their lifestyle, but have "NO desire to understand them?" that's just foolishly ignorant.

As I said earlier in this post, STOP MAKING RACE ANALOGIES TO SUPPORT GAY ARGUMENTS!!!! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!! PERIOD!!

I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>As I said earlier in this post, STOP MAKING RACE ANALOGIES TO SUPPORT GAY ARGUMENTS!!!! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!! PERIOD!!

yes, i see where you are coming from. one can "choose" his/her sexuality, but one cannot change his/her skin color. i was merely trying to express the fact that homosexuals have experienced countless violent attacks and are often scared for their lives in certain areas of our country. the ussage of the word "faggot" (see my other entry on its origin) only adds to this violence and prejudice. everyone has a right to freedom and equality. homosexuals should have just as many rights as heterosexuals (even if you "do not agree with their lifestyle")

>As I said earlier in this
>post, STOP MAKING RACE ANALOGIES
>TO SUPPORT GAY ARGUMENTS!!!! THEY
>ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!
>PERIOD!!
>
you wish. Hatred is hatred.

mama's so proud that you can "co-exist."

if he wants to avoid the 'homophobia' he needs to change his shirt...

>if he wants to avoid the
>'homophobia' he needs to change
>his shirt...

yea, but if he does so, he loses erykah

the 21-33 female demographic n/m........

RawLakid( L.a's finest, lyrically, not physically; well maybe that too ;) )

support The Dialogos. University High School CLASS OF 2002!!!!

You know he doesn't want to do that!....

"Warriors keep fightin', I know you're there." - Jill Scott

which is an issue within itself... Dre and Common... ahhh... but I still love her so much I don't care.

Bun battybway

So maybe common doesn't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, does that mean he in some way fears it. why must everyone who fails to agree with homosexuality have to be labeled homophobic. This seems very odd to me. Maybe I am misunderstanding the semantics of the matter. I don't think him not applauding homosexuality hinders his ability to be a conscious rapper.

peace
w/love
dusty
fka daveyg

you may think i'm an idiot, well guess what....I AM

http://www.geocities.com/lilgilby/stuff.html

>I don't think him not applauding
>homosexuality hinders his ability to
>be a conscious rapper.

it does.

peace
w/love
dusty
fka daveyg

you may think i'm an idiot, well guess what....I AM

http://www.geocities.com/lilgilby/stuff.html

.

A) there's no grand dictionary that says being conscious
means accepting homosexuality. consciousness means different things to different people.

B) In the context of battle rhymes (like Doin it) the word fag doesn't always mean homosexuals. Similar to the word sissy, it implies a loss of manhood or weakness, not nessecarily gayness. for example, com's use of the word is ambiguous compared to eminems use of the word. Em, almost always connects the word fag to a sexual or directly to homosexuals, com is a bit more vague.

C) if you really don't like it,
DON'T LISTEN
its like going to a KKK rally and then complaining about rascist
comments. Ultimately homosexuality is a behavior, some people like it some don't.

>A) there's no grand dictionary that
>says being conscious
>means accepting homosexuality. consciousness means different
>things to different people.

true. Fabolous should be called a conscious MC as well.

>B) In the context of battle
>rhymes (like Doin it) the
>word fag doesn't always mean
>homosexuals. Similar to the word
>sissy, it implies a loss
>of manhood or weakness, not
>nessecarily gayness. for example, com's
>use of the word is
>ambiguous compared to eminems use
>of the word. Em, almost
>always connects the word fag
>to a sexual or directly
>to homosexuals, com is a
>bit more vague.
>
I know. When I was 14, 15 I used the word meaning "You're wack" or "idiot". When I was 14!!!! First and foremost the term is used to diss gays. Even if you use it in a different meaning.... the "root" is still the same.

>C) if you really don't like
>it,
>DON'T LISTEN
>its like going to a KKK
>rally and then complaining about
>rascist
>comments.

What? You're comparin his lyrics with a KKK rally?

>Ultimately homosexuality is a behavior,
>some people like it some
>don't.

Some people wish it was a behavior. Why do we say "He is gay" instead of "He behaves gay"?

>Some people wish it was a behavior. Why do we say "He is gay" instead of "He behaves gay"?

We also say "He's silly", or "He's foolish". These are also behaviors. Show me the science article where they isolated a "gay gene". It is a behavior.




I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>>Some people wish it was a behavior. Why do we say "He is gay" instead of "He behaves gay"?
>
>We also say "He's silly", or
>"He's foolish". These are
>also behaviors. Show me
>the science article where they
>isolated a "gay gene".
>It is a behavior.
>

you guys better check linguistics (semantics) and Sigmund Freud.
By the way, I've never heard of "heterosexual genes" either. Can things like "love" or "hate" be ascribed to certain genes? You guys probably don't even know what gene means...

Number one, I don't need to "check Sigmund Freud". He was a man with an opinion, just like me.
Number two, do you think it's a coincindence that the rise in acceptance of homosexuality has occured alongside the rise in a general lack of morals in this society?
Semantic that!!!!

P.S.
you're gay, just admit it.

I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

I think we should stop wasting our time trying to explain things to that La_Saussice person anyway. She hasn't substantiated one claim yet and is obviously oblivious to reason.

tRUE

I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>Number one, I don't need to
>"check Sigmund Freud". He
>was a man with an
>opinion, just like me.

If there hadn't been Sigmund Freund, you little nerd wouldn't even know what behaviour is.

>Number two, do you think it's
>a coincindence that the rise
>in acceptance of homosexuality has
>occured alongside the rise in
>a general lack of morals
>in this society?
>Semantic that!!!!
>
Morals...lol. If you want morals, you better become a monk.

>P.S.
>you're gay, just admit it.

lol.

in reply to: why do we say "he is gay" instead of "he behaves gay."

for the same reason we say, "that dude is silly" instead of "that dude behaves silly." it takes less syllables to say "is" rather than "behaves." its a lazy tounge not a change of meaning.

>A) there's no grand dictionary that
>says being conscious
>means accepting homosexuality. consciousness means different
>things to different people.

I'm with you here, but I would hope that someone who was trying to be "conscious" would be able to understand homosexuality, rather than hate or fear it.

>B) In the context of battle
>rhymes (like Doin it) the
>word fag doesn't always mean
>homosexuals. Similar to the word
>sissy, it implies a loss
>of manhood or weakness, not
>nessecarily gayness. for example, com's
>use of the word is
>ambiguous compared to eminems use
>of the word. Em, almost
>always connects the word fag
>to a sexual or directly
>to homosexuals, com is a
>bit more vague.

I agree that Eminem's use of derogatory language towards gays is much much worse than Com's. I don't think that's at issue.

But that leads to another point:
How do you think using "fag" or "faggot" as the ultimate derogatory affects homosexuals?
How, specifically, do you think it affects closeted homosexuals?

You have to be responsible both for the intent and the effects of your actions. If I throw a football in a china store, some shit's going to get broken -- it doesn't matter that I was just trying to get it to my buddy.

>C) if you really don't like
>it,
>DON'T LISTEN
>its like going to a KKK
>rally and then complaining about
>rascist
>comments. Ultimately homosexuality is a behavior,
>some people like it some
>don't.

Wrong.

Common is not monolithic -- that's the point of the post.

I love Common's music, and I'm very much bothered by his homophobic lyrics. They're not mutually exclusive.

I don't love the KKK's music.

--
Jesse Thorn / Host
The Sound of Young America
Thursdays 5-6 PM KZSC 88.1 Santa Cruz

Metro Santa Cruz "Best Radio Personality" 2002

"California is drowning, and I live down by the river." -- Swamp Dogg

>I'm with you here, but I
>would hope that someone who
>was trying to be "conscious"
>would be able to understand
>homosexuality, rather than hate or
>fear it.
Com never said he hated or feared



>I agree that Eminem's use of
>derogatory language towards gays is
>much much worse than Com's.
> I don't think that's
>at issue.

My point in bringing up eminem was not showing who's worse than whom. I used eminem to show that com's use of the word fag is ambiguous and never makes any direct reference to homosexuality;
considering that the word faggot was used for other meanings and conotations long before it came to mean homosexual.

>But that leads to another point:
>
>How do you think using "fag"
>or "faggot" as the ultimate
>derogatory affects homosexuals?
>How, specifically, do you think it
>affects closeted homosexuals?
>You have to be responsible both
>for the intent and the
>effects of your actions.
>If I throw a football
>in a china store, some
>shit's going to get broken
>-- it doesn't matter that
>I was just trying to
>get it to my buddy.

agreed

>>C) if you really don't like
>>it,
>>DON'T LISTEN
>>its like going to a KKK
>>rally and then complaining about
>>rascist
>>comments. Ultimately homosexuality is a behavior,
>>some people like it some
>>don't.
>
>Wrong.
about??

i guess the whole KKK example was a bit confusing.
The point is that no one kidnaps you, straps you in a chair and makes you listen to common.
just like i don't get invited to KKK rallys; so if i exercise my own free will and go to one, i can exercise that same free and leave if i don't like what their saying.

>>I'm with you here, but I
>>would hope that someone who
>>was trying to be "conscious"
>>would be able to understand
>>homosexuality, rather than hate or
>>fear it.
>Com never said he hated or
>feared

I don't think he does; I talked to him one time about it, and he was pretty straight (no pun intended) with me. Basically he said it was really looked down upon when and where he grew up, but he was trying to open his mind to it, and that it was hard. Which I thought was a really admirable answer. Because not everyone is born into a situation where there's no prejudice, and it takes courage to confront prejudice in yourself.

>
>
>>I agree that Eminem's use of
>>derogatory language towards gays is
>>much much worse than Com's.
>> I don't think that's
>>at issue.
>
>My point in bringing up eminem
>was not showing who's worse
>than whom. I used eminem
>to show that com's use
>of the word fag is
>ambiguous and never makes any
>direct reference to homosexuality;
>considering that the word faggot was
>used for other meanings and
>conotations long before it came
>to mean homosexual.

It's just that this argument could be made about the word "nigger" as well. It's a falacious argument... clearly, the reason the word is a put-down is because of it's association with homosexuality.

>i guess the whole KKK example
>was a bit confusing.
>The point is that no one
>kidnaps you, straps you in
>a chair and makes you
>listen to common.
>just like i don't get invited
>to KKK rallys; so if
>i exercise my own free
>will and go to one,
>i can exercise that same
>free and leave if i
>don't like what their saying.


I understand that. But what dude is saying (and what I'm saying) is that because he likes so many other things about what Com is saying, he wants to address this thing that he doesn't like.

I don't spend a lot of my time worrying about what David Duke thinks... but if a friend of mine said something racially offensive, I would call him on it, not just abandon that friend.

--
Jesse Thorn / Host
The Sound of Young America
Thursdays 5-6 PM KZSC 88.1 Santa Cruz

Metro Santa Cruz "Best Radio Personality" 2002

"California is drowning, and I live down by the river." -- Swamp Dogg

I enjoy your sarcastic tactics at question dodging, but how does common not supporting homosexuality obstruct his position as a conscious rapper. Does consciousness entail supporting of all points of view even if against one's true beliefs, or does it have more to do with one's lyrical depth and analytical skills. It's ridiculous not to consider someone a conscious rapper b/c they don't support the moral relativism of our day. By the way your Fabulous joke was poor to say the most.

I hope you don't think you're a rasta
your ignorance shows you to be straight and narrow
like prebaked pasta

hey. when ya battle rappin...expect anything and everything from yo competitions mouth. no matter what he says he's still my favorite and he's just the illest period...but think about it....for a min. on how many of us in this vast hip hop culture use the word 'bitch' or 'nigga' on a regular basis.
not saying that his use homosexual slander is justified. cuz if ya "open minded/easy to hurt"(whatever thats supposed to mean) you probably take offense to any form of derogatory language period. (after all my opinion is biased anyway.) and there was a famous guy...forgot his name...somethin about he with no sin and castin the first stone....i dunno but he had a point there. dont hate common for speakin his mind...i respect him for that. they also say that the tounge is a double edged sword...words can help or hurt a man....and god bless the person who hates homosexuals after hearin doinit....do you think thats possible?
"in a circle of faggots, youre name is mentioned...in six degrees i separate emcees..." -COMMON one the lines that sparked the convo...wow :-)

I understood you, I felt what you were saying . . . till you layed it out like this: "and god bless the person who hates homosexuals after hearin doinit...."

I think we can all agree that god doesn't bless anyone who hates. It may sound nerdy or preachy, but what the hell

:-)

>It's ridiculous not
>to consider someone a conscious
>rapper b/c they don't support
>the moral relativism of our
>day.

Moral relativism? Homophobia is kind of fascism.

Holla!

Using the word fag goes beyond simply not agreeing with a homosexual lifestlye (whatever that means). Using charged words like that, which are hateful and incite feelings of loathing, goes beyond simply not thinking that it's cool for men to love men. It's an attack!!!

wow you used so many words to say nothing

Actually, what I said you spiteful little sh*t, is that using the word fag goes beyond simply not condoning homosexuality.
YOU are trying to defend Com by saying that he just has a different choice of principles. I'm saying that individual ideas are of course OK, but when you take that out onto the streets, and spout hate it changes everything. So eat it

an attack on who? a gay man or a straight man. the term fag in hip-hop is meant to be a diss toward straight males who are behaving/acting like punks, idiots, or sell outs. Sure the term has its 'roots' in describing homosexuals, but so does nigga have its 'roots' in describing blacks. The word nigga has taken on a whole new meaning in hip-hop. Nobody gets flamed for using the word nigga in hip-hop. Nobody should get flamed for using the word fag either.

>an attack on who? a gay
>man or a straight man.
>the term fag in hip-hop
>is meant to be a
>diss toward straight males who
>are behaving/acting like punks, idiots,
>or sell outs. Sure the
>term has its 'roots' in
>describing homosexuals, but so does
>nigga have its 'roots' in
>describing blacks. The word
>nigga has taken on a
>whole new meaning in hip-hop.
> Nobody gets flamed for
>using the word nigga in
>hip-hop. Nobody should get
>flamed for using the word
>fag either.

But if whites say that moronic n-word it is a problem, or what?

Hell yeah it's a problem!!! If they say it to me. If a white dude utters the n-word around me, he should immediately prepare for combat!!! But, he still has the right to say it, just like I have the right to beat his ass!!
So, maybe you should get together a fag posse and hunt Lonnie Lynn down, Eddie Murphy Raw style:"I know yoooooooooou!!! Mr. Fuck You Man!!!"
I'm actually starting to enjoy this thread.

I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

There's definitely consequences to everything someone says, but they still have that right.

>Hell yeah it's a problem!!! If
>they say it to me.
> If a white dude
>utters the n-word around me,
>he should immediately prepare for
>combat!!! But, he still
>has the right to say
>it, just like I have
>the right to beat his
>ass!!
>So, maybe you should get together
>a fag posse and hunt
>Lonnie Lynn down, Eddie Murphy
>Raw style:"I know yoooooooooou!!!
>Mr. Fuck You Man!!!"
>I'm actually starting to enjoy this
>thread.

lol. very funny. maybe you should grow up.

This isn't a matter of him "not appluading" homosexuality, it's a matter of him talking about it in a venomous, disrespectful way. Just the way he spits the word out, you can hear the hatred behind it. If you "don't want to appluad the gay lifestyle" well fine, don't mention it in your raps. But if you're gonna go outta your way to use a word that, to gay people, is the equivalent of the n-word, you've got a problem that you're not dealing with. Ask yourself, why does he feel the need to do that? You seem to think Common should be applauded for not being afraid to "speak his mind" and display his homophobia and ignorance.


Nasty like the freaky deaky at your local sleazy speakeasy - MF Doom

he wasn't talking about homosexuals, he was talking about a straight male who is acting/behaving like a sellout/punk.

It seems that you don't get it. If he feels a certain way about anything (gays included) then that is a great reason to put it in his music. Damn....now people must be PC when they use their form of expression? If he doesn't agree with it he doesn't agree with it. Let's stop trying to force people to say what we think they should say instead of what they won't to say. If art was all about what society accepted at the time, we would be a stagnant community.

>It seems that you don't get
>it. If he feels
>a certain way about anything
>(gays included) then that is
>a great reason to put
>it in his music.
>Damn....now people must be PC
>when they use their form
>of expression? If he
>doesn't agree with it he
>doesn't agree with it.
>Let's stop trying to force
>people to say what we
>think they should say instead
>of what they won't to
>say. If art was
>all about what society accepted
>at the time, we would
>be a stagnant community.

By the way, criticizing someone doesn't mean forcing someone to change his whole attitude or what he thinks.

>The Roots, Mos Def, ...have said similar things
>and aren’t targeted like common
>was.

what homophobic things have mos def and the roots said? i am very interested and potentially depressed to find out....especially regarding mos def...

•.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.•

“I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart for the joys of the multitude.”
--Bashir Shakur/Me’Shell NdegéOcello


http://www.heiruspecs.com ~new cd, "Small Steps" 2 be released March 12...... features guests Slug of Atmosphere and Qwazaar of Typical Cats.

>what homophobic things have mos def
>and the roots said?

This is from Dat Skat:

"Skiggy-dang, skiggy-dang, you knows we gonna rock
and don't stop, just droppin off my bags you fags
When you define, the word behind, deserves you lags"

I'm not sure if the line after "fags" is trying to say how the word "fags" isn't offensive, but regardless, it's a mention.

"Coola than peppamint"- The Bad
Lieutenant

Songs I'm feeling as of the spring:

*Left and Right- D'angelo
*Flowers- Ghostface Killah
*Make u Feel That Way- Blackalicous
*Biz Markie/MosDef/TowaTei-Beatbox
*Straight Outta Boston- Esoteric, etc.

yeah i dont think that BT was being offensive or homophobic or anything of the sort... but im saying, if common said something like that, people would jump

1)Common rejects the Conscious label-"Sophisticated sissies strut like this is Beat Street in backpacks Braggin how they don't eat meat and abstract I'mma backslap 'em with they skateboard, flee the crime scene with a rhyme scheme to escape frauds"

2)the fact is there is no substantial proof that there is a gene for Homosexuality

If you listening to Common hinges on his approval of the Gay lifestyle then you should try and find another rapper that wears orange.

>yeah i dont think that BT
>was being offensive or homophobic
>or anything of the sort...
>but im saying, if common
>said something like that, people
>would jump

i agree...cause common's a blatant cat (thats what i love about him). black thought's (also one of my favs) more of a cryptic dude (aka spits darts) so...but still once you cast out words you cant take them back...you can only appologize. note com's lyric "coffee shop chicks and white dude's" on things fall apart...that lil disclamer in the cd cover. (paraphrasin...again.) that the roots basicly dont think or wouldnt say anything nonchalant like com...period coz you cant pay the bills speakin (thinkin) what cha feel. did that line offend people? of course, but think about this...what made common write that? holla!

if all these intelligent cats are saying stuff like this, maybe its for a reason? they aren't saying we should discriminate, beat up, or harrass gays. they are using the word fag to diss straight males who act/behave like punks/sell outs. these are cats with a proven track record of being knowledgeable. we cant discount that track record because they say fag. if anything we should ask ourselves, "why do all these wise cats use this term to diss straight males? do they know something, do they have some insight on something?" Again, gays do not deserve to be discriminated against in anyway, but they dont deserve to be anointed beyond having the word fag used in a rap either. I mean there are limits to what you can insist be done. You can insist that no one beat you up, murder you, discriminate against you because your gay. You cannot insist that intelligent hip-hop cats not use the term fag to diss straight males who are acting/behaving like punks/sellouts. You're really putting gay rights above all else. No one is trying to make hip-hop heads stop saying the word nigga. A politician running for office cant use the word fag or nigga, or else they'll be voted out of office. A hip-hop artists, however, doesn't have to be politically correct. They can tell a sellout suck their dick and then tell a young boy to go to school and study hard in the next sentence. They can diss a straight male by calling him a fag and then say you're a fag if you discriminate against gays in the next sentence. They can call a black man a nigger and then call another black man a king in the next sentence. You have to use the context when dealing with hip-hop. You cant just say, "EWwwww. He used the word fag. Lets flame him." Hip-hop artists can use the word fag in a million different ways, just like hip-hop artists can use the word nigger in a million ways. Thats hip-hop. Derogatory words can be used in hip-hop. Derogatory words have their meanings changed, reversed, and thrown back at the original user in hip-hop. Example:"Yo, you're a fag for killing homosexuals/my flow is deep and intellectual/words get flipped and herbs get ripped" Sure the word fag in the above line still has some 'roots' in homosexuality, but the meaning is starting to be reversed. Its starting to be thrown back at straight males who hurt homosexuals. The sting is starting to be taken away. The same with the word nigger. "Yo, my nigga is a king/with all the knowledge he brings/with a medal of honor/ that outshines the bling-bling" Sure the word nigga still has roots in slavery, but the meaning is being flipped and thrown back in the face of the racists. If your gonna give flack for the word fag in hip-hop, then you're gonna have to speak about the word nigga too. If not, then your argument is unfinished. My position is, it all depends on the context. "Kill all homosexuals, those fags/Kill those queens too/fucking drags" is a lot different from "got all that bling-bling he likes to brag/snatch you greed gotten ring/fuckin fag." "I hate black niggers/when we see 'em/we pullin our triggers" is different from "Cherryview cats/those my niggas/they get dough/but never brag about figgas(slang for figures)"

Nobody gets flamed for using the word nigga in hip-hop. Nobody should get flamed for using the word fag either.

They
>can call a black man
>a nigger and then call
>another black man a king
>in the next sentence.
>You have to use the
>context when dealing with hip-hop.
> You cant just say,
>"EWwwww. He used the word
>fag. Lets flame him." Hip-hop
>artists can use the word
>fag in a million different
>ways, just like hip-hop artists
>can use the word nigger
>in a million ways.
>Thats hip-hop. Derogatory words can
>be used in hip-hop.
>Derogatory words have their meanings
>changed, reversed, and thrown back
>at the original user in
>hip-hop. Example:"Yo, you're a fag
>for killing homosexuals/my flow is
>deep and intellectual/words get flipped
>and herbs get ripped" Sure
>the word fag in the
>above line still has some
>'roots' in homosexuality, but the
>meaning is starting to be
>reversed. Its starting to
>be thrown back at straight
>males who hurt homosexuals. The
>sting is starting to be
>taken away. The same with
>the word nigger. "Yo, my
>nigga is a king/with all
>the knowledge he brings/with a
>medal of honor/ that outshines
>the bling-bling" Sure the word
>nigga still has roots in
>slavery, but the meaning is
>being flipped and thrown back
>in the face of the
>racists. If your gonna
>give flack for the word
>fag in hip-hop, then you're
>gonna have to speak about
>the word nigga too.
>If not, then your argument
>is unfinished. My position is,
>it all depends on the
>context. "Kill all homosexuals,
>those fags/Kill those queens too/fucking
>drags" is a lot different
>from "got all that bling-bling
>he likes to brag/snatch you
>greed gotten ring/fuckin fag."
>"I hate black niggers/when we
>see 'em/we pullin our triggers"
>is different from "Cherryview cats/those
>my niggas/they get dough/but never
>brag about figgas(slang for figures)"


Nasty like the freaky deaky at your local sleazy speakeasy - MF Doom

Common's good far outweighs his bad so it's cool with me.
Common ain't god so quit holding him to standards of what YOU believe consciousness to be.

Just cuz he ain't marching in no gay parades does that mean he don't wanna see his people free, of help his community.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU SHOULD BE HERE...(Let me show you what you are missing...)
"Live From Ball State University"
CURRENTLY IN THE CD PLAYER...No Doubt-Tragic Kingdom

--"You say you lookin’ fo them niggaz...Well, we be them..."
Beware of My Crew, It's the...
BADD AZZ MUTHAFUCKAZ
*Brainchild(Brains of the operation)
*Da Knife(Tha sharpest muthafucka)
*Restlesspoet(Resident alcoholic and Mr. don't give no fuck)
*Sonlight(Feelin' on YOUR booty...)
*S'Neta B(The Dictator...Reppin V.A.-First Female of the Squad)

YA'LL KNOW THE MOTTO...MURDA ON DAT AZZ!!!

"Pistol whipped his ass...his lady's, I was palmin' it. Hollerin' "87 reign dominant". Needed a fight that night...me and my woman
had an argument." -Com Sense
"Clap On...Clap Off...Keep the safety on but don't take it o....."-J Dilla
"Playa...Don't hate me because I'm beautiful..." -Ras Kass
"Shoulda paid yo light bill, you bought an outfit" -Project Pat
"DON'T GET ME!!" -Mos Def

*Listen to tracks that I have produced...
http://members.blackplanet.com/Sonlight/#

**Check out my boy's anti-U.S.A website
http://students.millikin.edu/~hwalters/

***Check out my weekly radio show(Mon. 10pm-12am EST):
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"Gumbo:A Musical Mixture of Madd Flavors"
Featured Artist for 4/15/02: No Doubt

Well said. I'm tired of all this politically correct crap. I DON'T CONDONE HOMOSEXUALTIY. But, I do believe in a human being's right to live free, as long as it doesn't hinder another's rights. Bob Marley, being a Rasta, shunned any type of homosexual activity by anyone. Was Mr. Marley not conscious?


I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

to be the Messiah of hip-hop and respresent all that is good in the world. That nigga's shit stinks just like yours do.

Have these people heard his first 2 LP's? Com Sense is ghetto, he's from the Chi, he's straight raw.

Common is my favorite MC. Period. But i don't expect him to live any better than i do.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU SHOULD BE HERE...(Let me show you what you are missing...)
"Live From Ball State University"

CURRENTLY IN THE CD PLAYER...No Doubt-Tragic Kingdom

--"You say you lookin’ fo them niggaz...Well, we be them..."
Beware of My Crew, It's the...
BADD AZZ MUTHAFUCKAZ
*Brainchild(Brains of the operation)
*Da Knife(Tha sharpest muthafucka)
*Restlesspoet(Resident alcoholic and Mr. don't give no fuck)
*Sonlight(Feelin' on YOUR booty...)
*S'Neta B(The Dictator...Reppin V.A.-First Female of the Squad)

YA'LL KNOW THE MOTTO...MURDA ON DAT AZZ!!!

"Pistol whipped his ass...his lady's, I was palmin' it. Hollerin' "87 reign dominant". Needed a fight that night...me and my woman
had an argument." -Com Sense
"Clap On...Clap Off...Keep the safety on but don't take it o....."-J Dilla
"Playa...Don't hate me because I'm beautiful..." -Ras Kass
"Shoulda paid yo light bill, you bought an outfit" -Project Pat
"DON'T GET ME!!" -Mos Def

*Listen to tracks that I have produced...
http://members.blackplanet.com/Sonlight/#

**Check out my boy's anti-U.S.A website
http://students.millikin.edu/~hwalters/

***Check out my weekly radio show(Mon. 10pm-12am EST):
http://www.bsu.edu/real/~wcrdlive/wcrd.rm
"Gumbo:A Musical Mixture of Madd Flavors"
Featured Artist for 4/15/02: No Doubt

>to be the Messiah of hip-hop
>and respresent all that is
>good in the world. That
>nigga's shit stinks just like
>yours do.
>
>Have these people heard his first
>2 LP's? Com Sense is
>ghetto, he's from the Chi,
>he's straight raw.
>
>Common is my favorite MC. Period.
>But i don't expect him
>to live any better than
>i do.

that doesnt mean he is beyond criticism.


•.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.••.,¸¸.•

“I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart for the joys of the multitude.”
~~Bashir Shakur/Me’Shell NdegéOcello


http://www.heiruspecs.com ~new cd, "Small Steps" ..... features guests Slug of Atmosphere and Qwazaar of Typical Cats.

>that doesnt mean he is beyond
>criticism.

That is true. But eveyone has things that they deal with. I think Common is very honest in his music...from his drinking issues to whatever else. Noone is in a position to just take massive shots at Common like people love to do here. It's okay to disagree with him, but ain't nobody on this website "arrived". Let him live and grow just like we all have to. I think we should keep it all in perpective. This man has a foundation for youth if i'm correct, but i've never seen a post about that...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU SHOULD BE HERE...(Let me show you what you are missing...)
"Live From Ball State University"
CURRENTLY IN THE CD PLAYER...No Doubt-Tragic Kingdom

--"You say you lookin’ fo them niggaz...Well, we be them..."
Beware of My Crew, It's the...
BADD AZZ MUTHAFUCKAZ
*Brainchild(Brains of the operation)
*Da Knife(Tha sharpest muthafucka)
*Restlesspoet(Resident alcoholic and Mr. don't give no fuck)
*Sonlight(Feelin' on YOUR booty...)
*S'Neta B(The Dictator...Reppin V.A.-First Female of the Squad)

YA'LL KNOW THE MOTTO...MURDA ON DAT AZZ!!!

"Pistol whipped his ass...his lady's, I was palmin' it. Hollerin' "87 reign dominant". Needed a fight that night...me and my woman
had an argument." -Com Sense
"Clap On...Clap Off...Keep the safety on but don't take it o....."-J Dilla
"Playa...Don't hate me because I'm beautiful..." -Ras Kass
"Shoulda paid yo light bill, you bought an outfit" -Project Pat
"DON'T GET ME!!" -Mos Def

*Listen to tracks that I have produced...
http://members.blackplanet.com/Sonlight/#

**Check out my boy's anti-U.S.A website
http://students.millikin.edu/~hwalters/

***Check out my weekly radio show(Mon. 10pm-12am EST):
http://www.bsu.edu/real/~wcrdlive/wcrd.rm
"Gumbo:A Musical Mixture of Madd Flavors"
Featured Artist for 4/15/02: No Doubt

FUCK GAYS
FUCK FAGS
FUCK THEM ALL

THEY'RE THE FIRST PEOPLE GOD WILL PUNISH ON JUDGEMENT DAY!!!

Stop ranting. Clean up your room first.

BEING A FAG IS THE WORSE THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO THIS WORLD.

WE ALL GOT SINS..........BUT BEIN A FAG??????????
THAT'S EVEN AGAINST THE LAWS OF NATURE

>BEING A FAG IS THE WORSE
>THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO
>THIS WORLD.
>
>WE ALL GOT SINS..........BUT BEIN A
>FAG??????????
>THAT'S EVEN AGAINST THE LAWS OF
>NATURE
no offense but damn is this the same dude who wrote nature of the threat?!
if so that was some good shit.

>no offense but damn is this
>the same dude who wrote
>nature of the threat?!
>if so that was some good
>shit.


THINK ABOUT IT ,IF RVERY ONE IN THE WORLD TURNS INTO A FAG OR A DYKE...............HUMAN BEINGS WOULD BE EXTINCT IN THE NEXT HUNDRED YEARS....

WHAT R U TRYING TO TURN THE WORLD INTO?

>THINK ABOUT IT ,IF RVERY ONE
>IN THE WORLD TURNS INTO
>A FAG OR A DYKE...............HUMAN
>BEINGS WOULD BE EXTINCT IN
>THE NEXT HUNDRED YEARS....
>
>WHAT R U TRYING TO TURN
>THE WORLD INTO?

a better place...where my kids can grow to be healthy and wise and not worry about some confused homosexual get slained in the middle of the street just because of who they think they are...but enough o dat bs...im sayin...in the end i have a bias...just like you. (wow) so i cant front like im a nice (fake) person...so my words dont mean anything...oh yeah!!! youre one of the best lyricists on the block so i posted up some of ya stuff...thanks for being an inspiration ras kass...and i mean that!!
"i walk holdin my nutz, i dont give a fuck..." -you
"im a put it in a bullet and put it in ya brain." -you
"if bill clinton was the answer, then it was a stupid question."-you
"it aint little white monkeys...its little white hunkies." -you
"hotter than sole with gonorhea in ghana." -you
"cause god created man and man created hip hop i decined to participate it until i was orientated" -you
"f#@k alchemist!!!!" -you probably said that....twice

The whole topic ain't about Common and his attitude, but about some idiots who are afraid of getting a dick up their asses. That's why it's called homophobia. You don't criticize gays, you are afraid of them..

I just wanted to give you a big, heartfelt, "YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!!"
Maybe now you can FIRMER LA BOUCHE!!!!!!


I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>I just wanted to give you
>a big, heartfelt, "YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!!"
>
>Maybe now you can FIRMER LA
>BOUCHE!!!!!!
>
>
lol. It's called "Fermer la bouche."

P.S: I guess you're the one who was complaining about a lack of morals... now I know the reason: a lack of knowledge and education.

People who take it up the ass are trying to make people who know that it doesn't go there feel bad and ashamed about knowing that it doesn't go there. Well, I don't care what anybody says, being a homosexual is wrong. The dick wasn't made to go up the ass, it was made to go in and out a coochie. If you don't know that shit, then you're just confused. One day you will understand, it might be too late, but you will understand. You shouldn't hurt anybody because of where they stick their dick, but don't try to act like 2 dudes sucking each other's dicks is normal. If you wanna do it, go ahead, but you will pay for it in the end. I'd rather be on God's side, than any human's side.



Remember.....these are the days of your Life. Don't forget that.
-me

>People who take it up the
>ass are trying to make
>people who know that it
>doesn't go there feel bad
>and ashamed about knowing that
>it doesn't go there. Well,
>I don't care what anybody
>says, being a homosexual is
>wrong. The dick wasn't made
>to go up the ass,
>it was made to go
>in and out a coochie.
>If you don't know that
>shit, then you're just confused.
>One day you will understand,
>it might be too late,
>but you will understand. You
>shouldn't hurt anybody because of
>where they stick their dick,
>but don't try to act
>like 2 dudes sucking each
>other's dicks is normal.
>If you wanna do it, go
>ahead, but you will pay
>for it in the end.
>I'd rather be on God's
>side, than any human's side.

wow. that was sicker than sick, but go ahead. It's your life.

P.S: Defending gays doesn't mean being gay. You guys should grow up.

>People who take it up the
>ass are trying to make
>people who know that it
>doesn't go there feel bad
>and ashamed about knowing that
>it doesn't go there. Well,
>I don't care what anybody
>says, being a homosexual is
>wrong. The dick wasn't made
>to go up the ass,
>it was made to go
>in and out a coochie.
>If you don't know that
>shit, then you're just confused.
>One day you will understand,
>it might be too late,
>but you will understand. You
>shouldn't hurt anybody because of
>where they stick their dick,
>but don't try to act
>like 2 dudes sucking each
>other's dicks is normal. If
>you wanna do it, go
>ahead, but you will pay
>for it in the end.
>I'd rather be on God's
>side, than any human's side.
>
>
>
>
>Remember.....these are the days of your
>Life. Don't forget that.
>-me
dude....now that's real...thats the realest shit i heard this whole post...

every time someone makes a spelling error, some people use it as a springboard to break them down on their lack of "knowledge". Communication is used to get a point across. U knew what I meant. Don't try to be sarcastic about semantics. You're like one of these children I teach. "ooh, he spelled somn' wrong!" grow up. And admit you're gay.


I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>every time someone makes a spelling
>error, some people use it
>as a springboard to break
>them down on their lack
>of "knowledge". Communication is
>used to get a point
>across. U knew what
>I meant. Don't try
>to be sarcastic about semantics.
> You're like one of
>these children I teach.
>"ooh, he spelled somn' wrong!"
>grow up.

oh sorry boy. I didn't mean to hurt you.

>And admit you're gay.
>
I'm as gay as you little retard.

at what point did I say you "hurt" me?
How u gon' have a battle of wits with no ammunition?

I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

>at what point did I say
>you "hurt" me?

think about it.

>How u gon' have a battle
>of wits with no ammunition?
>
lol. There is no battle. If you call it a battle.. well, grow up.

wow...yal got to b the "gayest" people to b arguin over com's lyrics and how he apparently "makes fun" of the gay community....every rapper calls every other rapper gay or faggots...people who dont rap call other people gay or faggots...if u dont like com callin some wack mc gay(its only shittalk guys come on now b serious)..then u dont like com..he's been like that since day one and he's the best mc out there period!

"n a circle of faggots ur name is mentioned"-com

thats what im sayin, just cause hes been labeled a conscious rapper dont mean shit, plus other "conscious" mcs say the same shit... so why the added heat for common

thats waht im trying to say

>Okay, I know this is a
>dead topic,

for a dead topic, you sure got a lot of responses . . .


------------------------------------
I say, let my children have music. I said it earlier. For God's sake, rid this society of some of the noise so that those who have ears will be able to use them some place listening to good music.
- Charles Mingus

"Now I could freak, fly, flow, fuck up a faggot/don't understand their ways/and I ain't down wit' gays/you wanna drop the style that was made by my moms and my dad?/when I was young I used to run wit' a notepad"-Sadat X



I ain't gon' kill y'all nigs, I ain't that fool. But, I will stomp the shit out of you, I ain't that cool.- Royce

younguns ice-grillin'me/yo, you not feelin' me/fine, it costs you nothin'/pay me no mind-Jay

don't get too close, because ya might get shot-PMD

you call yourselves God/can you make it rain?/can you tell me now what I'm thinkin' in my brain?-Kool Keith

i might lick one 'tato chip, put it back in the bag, shake it up. whoever get the chip get the chip.-Meth

y'all niggas pray to Hot Rods, and not God/while Versace play your bitches like Yahtzee.-Dave a.k.a. Trugoy

At a show a while back in Frisco, Common singled and bitched out a gay couple that was near the stage during a freestyle and basically made it clear that they weren't wanted there. I thonk that's what sparked most of the debate on these boards.

sig:
Puttin it down fo'
Oakland
Oaktown
Cokeland
The City of Dope
The 'Town
The 'O
The O-A-K

"When I die, fuck it I wanna go to hell, cuz I'm a piece of shit - it ain't hard to fuckin tell. It don't make sense giong to heaven with the goodie-goodies dressed in white, I like black Tims and black hoodies... All my life I've been considered as the worst - lying to my mother, even stealin out her purse. Crime after crime, from drugs to extortion. I know my mother wish she got a fuckin abortion. She don't even love me like she did when I was younger - suckin on her chest just to stop my fuckin hunger. I wonder if I died, would tears come to her eyes - forgive me for my disrespect forgive me for my lies... I swear to God I feel like death is fuckin callin me..."
-B.I.G.