That's not even close to what I'm saying. I came here asking about who selects which acts the Roots tours with because touring with Everlast doesn't seem like a move made to gain a larger black audience. <BR>__________________________________________________ <P>I'll get with you about jazz later but I wanted to address this:<P>>However, the point that worries me the most is that Jimi Hendrix and the Roots shouldn't be considered avant-garde or alternative. <P>If the Roots are considering avant-garde/alternative, I think its not just because of the "advanced" musical style or lyrics but also marketing, media, & perception. <P>>NO artist can make a living off of 100% black support the numbers just don't work. <P>This is simply not true...ask any gospel singer. Shirley Cesar, Tremaine Hawkins, Yolanda Adams, etc. live fairly well off of black dollars. So does Gerald Levert, Keith Sweat, Johnny Gil..who never had white support in any substantial numbers. <P>My whole point in bringing up how PE and ICE CUBE have/had substantial white support was a response to nahysma because she seemed to be implying >that the Puffy and Jay-Z as making records for "real" black folks, while The Roots and others seemed <BR>>to not be doing that. And PE, it always seemed <BR>>odd that the majority of their revenue came from non-blacks.<P>ummmm...so what? I (and many blacks) heard, partied to, saw and loved PE without having to deal with caucasians...that's my point. There are more whites in the USA than blacks - if 30% of white youth loved PE or NWA, that doesn't mean that 60% of black youth weren't loving them (though 30% of them can equal in # more than 60% of us). <P>>even though I hesitate to say this, a whole lot of the black folks that were pumpin PE back in the day were probably not about black nationalism either>. <P>I would bet that more of us were truly about black nationalism than the white kids. While the medallions, etc. was a fad for most part, the general vibe had a lasting impression on hip hop and is evident in groups like NWA (I can break that down to if you want). Also some of the principles of nationalism are in No Limit, which is a far more financially autonomous (from whites ) orgnization than PE ever was. btw, check how D supported Hammer in his book.<P>>As I read one of her comments (( and you can read it for yourself) she seemed to suggest that some of the penetration problems taht The Roots and Common and Mosdef had were due to them not making "black music" or music for the roundtheway types. <P>No, I never said that the Roots weren't making "black music" because I don't feel that way @ all. I do think that given the style of hip hop they are doing, its even more imperative that they reach out & promote themselves in the general black market IF they want to capture it. Hip hop music is inherently youth orientated & has always had a strong party/dance focus, and the Roots music can come across as mature (which is refreshing to me) and not particularly party orientated. To me that explains some of their lack of appeal to kids 14 - 19. I can't think of a truly legendary/popular hip hop act that didn't have one song that rocked every house party, black clubs, etc relative to the hip hop audience existing @ the time (ie Eric B for Prez rocked the entire hip hop nation which was smaller than the Gin . The Roots make GREAT music (as I said, I have all their albums except Organix) but they (imo) haven't made a dance/party hit (of the kind that inspired me to get up & do the James backintheday or even to bounce in 99)....no Eric Bridge Is Over, Shook Ones Pt II, Sucka Mcs, Doo Wop, Doo Doo Brown, Make Em Say Ugghhh, I'll House You, How About Some Hardcore (yeah it was a party jam), Inspectah Gadget, PE #1, Ain't No Half Steppin', Scenario, T.R.O.Y, etc. (those were NY party tracks). Its going to be a lot harder to gain popularity without that. I think all hip hop acts need to keep Rakim's lyrics (As the Rhyme Goes On) in mind when they make records..that's the essence of hip hop. <P>Though could argue that the Roots have made party tracks that people just refuse to party too, I think the Next Movement is a danceable track (maybe the video could've highlighted that aspect more) that the djs haven't played enough. <P>