Offending someone is not my intention. But considering how many people said ouch to bill cosby, I’m ready to take my lumps. This weekend I was in atl. I road past MLK right off of I-20. now the place was just dark, hardly any streetlights. The residents have no control over that. But I am wondering about the “city council” leaders of that district. It’s obvious that that is beyond their control. HOWEVER. As I rode over some tracks, and under some MARTA tracks (station is less than a mile away) I saw PILES upon piles upon piles of litter in the streets and sideways.

This is something I saw and thought, “I’ve been to other neighborhoods and it’s so much cleaner” why do we do this to ourselves? That’s something we do have control over for example. Something as small as “not littering” I mean Jesus, we don’t need a conspiracy form the government to kill us off, cause we are gonna do it ourselves by disease, with the amount of trash I saw.

The apt complex that I moved into, slowly but surely got more and black people in it. And sure enough, the dumpster is a mess. People can’t even place their trash inside. Music is always blaring. Etc…negroes outside cursing and dranking at all hours of the night making noise. Mothafuckas can’t even speak to each other like neighbors. Little simple shit that we can control on our own, we refuse to. Back to litter, and I’m using litter as just an example. My folks never taught me to litter. Why? Cause basically it’s wrong, it’s lazy, and all it’s selfish. Kinda like pissing on the toilet seat and leaving it and not flushing. The tissue is less that 12 inches away, u can’t wipe your piss? This community had years and years of accumulated trash where the vacant lots didn’t look brown and green anymore. Yet we wanna talk about how sleezy the neighborhoods look. that’s like that sloppy pisser complaining about the bathrooms. Or his friend complaining to the people in charge. Negro, complain to your friend. He’s the one pissing all over shit.

Another thing I noticed at our hotel. All our housekeepers are black. The maintenance guy and I were talking one day about how we were getting some complaints about rooms. (example, some kid left a box of pokemon cards in a room after they checked out. Housekeeping said they went and looked and found no cards. Somebody else checked in the room. A few days later, the family came back and asked to check the room, I took them to the room, looked under the bed and there were the cards) the maintenance guy said (he said it, I didn’t) if I had my way, I’d fire them all and go find some Mexican ladies. I stayed at a hotel and they had 3 Mexican ladies cleaning my room.
Now he said it as a joke..i think, and I’m sure he would have offended some Latinos had they heard him. But then I thought. Whenever I’ve stayed at a hotel, and they had Latina housekeepers, they were polite and took pride in their work. That’s a part of business, even when u have a bad day. Of course there are blacks that take pride in their work too, so the housekeepers here I’m speaking of are not a good representation. But I mean, should doing the job u were hired to do, be asking too much? That box of cards could have been a pair of dirty drawls.

Do better, black folk. Whether u like it or not, whether you think it’s wrong or right, your ass, to a vast majority of our population, is representing your entire race.

And black folk know it too. On this very site people pigeon hole an entire greek letter org, based on a few chapters on a few campuses. So what am I saying here? I’m saying “please dispose of trash in it’s proper receptacle” lol. Some people may think I don’t like black folk. Wrong. I LOVE black folk. Hell I love my daughter, but when I think she’s doing something wrong or harmful, I’m gonna speak on it and tell her….and not blame another kid.

I was gonna talk about my experiences and black mcdonald’s vs white ones but …nah lol

Ok the shit I wrote could be written better and the like, but I had to get that outta my head. Rant over.


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I seen all kinds of people litter. Everywhere I been. And I done located and relocated quite a bit.

I think the whole planet as a whole should do better.

And all that other stuff you were talking about. Iono. I temped at a hospital, sometimes housekeeping is lazy. They get tired. These were people of many descents, and we got madd phone calls. So, this post is kind of mute to me.

Everyone should do better.

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Bout his people, for his people.

they have litter in other (read:white) areas too, the rub is that the city cleans it up faster so as not to tarnish the image of the "good areas"

they care less about where y'all darkies live, hence the trash builds up

now, why do folks tear up their own neighborhoods? couldn't answer that (although a big part of it has to do with lack of ownership sand not REALLY feelign liek the neighborhood is something you should invest in...at even that small a level)

just don't act like poor folks, minorities, or whichever "they" you wanna choose, got a market on litter

>they care less about where y'all darkies live, hence the trash
>builds up



>now, why do folks tear up their own neighborhoods? couldn't
>answer that (although a big part of it has to do with lack of
>ownership sand not REALLY feelign liek the neighborhood is
>something you should invest in...at even that small a level)

>they have litter in other (read:white) areas too, the rub is
>that the city cleans it up faster so as not to tarnish the
>image of the "good areas"
>
>they care less about where y'all darkies live, hence the trash
>builds up
>

on this next thing though:
it's amazing how attitudes change when a neighborhood is cleaned or spruced-up
sometimes pple have to see stuff clean to appreciate it and keep it clean

>now, why do folks tear up their own neighborhoods? couldn't
>answer that (although a big part of it has to do with lack of
>ownership sand not REALLY feelign liek the neighborhood is
>something you should invest in...at even that small a level)

not THAT much litter. that's why i made the "piss" comparison. u gonna worry about what the "links" company is doing with their bathroom when you work for the "lox" company?



>
>now, why do folks tear up their own neighborhoods? couldn't
>answer that (although a big part of it has to do with lack of
>ownership sand not REALLY feelign liek the neighborhood is
>something you should invest in...at even that small a level)

nah negroes are just lazy. it's the i don't care what happens to it, as long as i ain't gotta deal with it.

+>just don't act like poor folks, minorities, or whichever
>"they" you wanna choose, got a market on litter

of course not. but much like athletes, the shorter, slower, bench etc... has to work harder than the multi million dollar star. dig? just the way it is.


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summa y'all just amaze me

years and years of accumilation and more and more getting addes to it, vs litter that gets cleaned up quickly,then get soem glasses. at some point u gotta realize. oh shit they ain't cleaning this shit up maybe i need to stop leaving shit here.

in gary we've cleaned up shit and a week later, shit is right back headed in the same direction it was before. somebdoy abandoned and old fuckin boat in a neighorhood. now. of course i'm upset at the city for not coming to get it, but i'm also pissed at the ass that left it there.

why did he do it? he was too lazy to dispose of it the proper way.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
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at some point u gotta realize. oh shit they
>ain't cleaning this shit up maybe i need to stop leaving shit
>here.

do these pple not pay taxes too?

>
>in gary we've cleaned up shit and a week later, shit is right
>back headed in the same direction it was before.

did you go clean it up again?
did you organize a group to make sure it stays clean?
did you involve the people in the community you cleaned?
did you actually do this or are you just talking?
if so, how many times and in how many places


of
>course i'm upset at the city for not coming to get it,

#1 issue

>
>why did he do it? he was too lazy to dispose of it the proper
>way.

maybe he called and the city still never picked it up?
I've seen that happen
but a few pple do not make me color a whole group of pple one way

you are just plain ridiculous

>
>do these pple not pay taxes too?

meaning what? some do. and? i pay taxes so i need to leave my old couch and mcdonald's bag here?

>
>>
>>in gary we've cleaned up shit and a week later, shit is
>right
>>back headed in the same direction it was before.
>
>did you go clean it up again?

i dont' live there anymore. u all on me, instead of the people that leave all their shit there. how much sense does that make?

>did you organize a group to make sure it stays clean?

mothafuckas taking some pride in their surroundings and not being lazy would make sure it stayed cleaned.


>did you actually do this or are you just talking?
>if so, how many times and in how many places

i siad i did it. and u asked me if i did it. as if my answer is gonna change. ha ha



>
>
> of
>>course i'm upset at the city for not coming to get it,
>
>#1 issue
>
>>
>>why did he do it? he was too lazy to dispose of it the
>proper
>>way.
>
>maybe he called and the city still never picked it up?

ha ha so tow that shit to a neighborhood and leave it in a vacant lot. yeah leave it for the neighborhood to deal with. clean your glasses, bon.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
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always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

let me know how the cleanup goes though

some shit they can help to fix, but don't, no i'm not gonna rub their back and console them. u shouldn't either. it's harmful/

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

but you keep flapping
note that you said "help fix" not fix totally themselves

also remember tough love doesnt work for everyone

>some shit they can help to fix, but don't, no i'm not gonna
>rub their back and console them. u shouldn't either. it's
>harmful/
>

plug the hole, it's not as effective

u seem to want to ignore the hole

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
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which is the bottom line



>>do these pple not pay taxes too?
>
>meaning what? some do. and? i pay taxes so i need to leave
>my old couch and mcdonald's bag here?
>
>>

you need to clean your mind

a wonderful word.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

Some people come from out of town , just to dump their trash in Gary. Many a pick-up truck piled with trash have been stopped on the back roads leadin into, i.e.Clark Road, Chase Street...










*reactivates lurk-mode*

all them negroes ont he cirty payroll out there to see mike jackson. hand them all one trashbag. lol

facetious

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

>not THAT much litter.

buildup.

>u gonna worry about what the "links" company is
>doing with their bathroom when you work for the "lox" company?

but that's exactly what you did. you compared how things are at lox, compared to how they are at links

beyond that though, the point is that you more often than not really to imply (by the nature of how you pose the questions/accusations) that only the lox do it

otherwise you'd say "why don't we ALL do something about this problem?" not just "do better porchmonkies...." (or however you put it)

>nah negroes are just lazy. it's the i don't care what happens
>to it, as long as i ain't gotta deal with it.

don't be so quick to scuttle that. in an area where you feel like "this is MY street/block/whatever" because you OWN somethign there, you feel more invested than someone who is just there until they move to the next place. this is the same reason folks junk up public bathrooms, and freeways and rest areas....they don't necessarily have to STAY in the mess they create...liek the person who has put money into that spot

>of course not. but much like athletes, the shorter, slower,
>bench etc... has to work harder than the multi million dollar
>star. dig? just the way it is.

perhaps. but just like the player who is just there to get his check and only does what he has to do maintain that, if the person doesn't feel like part of (or have a sense of) team...then only their comfort at any moment is key. they only do what they do with no care abotu the greater unit...be that unit the team or the neighborhood

unless they were coming out at 2 A.M.

y'all just let it collect in the gullys (those ditches y'all have instead of sidewalks) and wait for the rain/floodwater to wash it away

before rita, as my almost-last act before i left, my brother and i spent 3 hours digging all the trash/crud/sticks/mud/etc that had dammed up his drain

.

Seriously.

it was just understood.

all of those fuckers in the City Council and Mayor's office are black.
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do they NOT see it as a "us/them" kinda thing?

they sure did when i was there

people who don't OWN shyt tend to litter...
transient people typically don't care, cause they're not invested.

I've lived in both --affluent suburbs and city--and
the fact of the matter is that people who OWN their
properties take a certain pride in their neighborhoods.

The litter tends to be minimal at best.

apologists make me sick. Lazyboi has a valid point.


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"now, why do folks tear up their own neighborhoods? couldn't answer that (although a big part of it has to do with lack of ownership sand not REALLY feeling like the neighborhood is something you should invest in...at even that small a level)"

what are you rambling about again?

cause you admit that you don't know why people "tear up their neighborhood"...which implies that the people WITHIN the torn neighborhoods are the source of the problem...yet you steady making excuses to blame white people who won't subsidize the costs for their clean-up.

And why should they? Isn't it YOUR responsibility to maintain YOUR shyt?

Am I missing something here?






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in all i've typed please show me what qualifies as "steady making excuses" and "blaming white people"

in my apologist whatever-ness i guess i missed all that

>>they have litter in other (read:white) areas too, the rub is that the city cleans it up faster so as not to tarnish the image of the "good areas"

they care less about where y'all darkies live, hence the trash builds up<<<


^^ AMNESIA much?




**************************************
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we still cool tho. i can admit that our generation has a LOT to learn when it comes to simple things like responsibility...but at the same time that has to be something you're TAUGHT by your forebears.

in other words, i blame bill cosby.

Love me some Black folk though...just love'em.

* * * * *

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Flavariety sez: FUCK YEAH...i'mma be rockin some Baby Phat when i'm in my 70s!!!!

....yes, it's about 98% white (by census statistics), most poor, and yet it might be the cleanest area I've ever lived in.

damn, I wish I could remember the full quote

"man, i'm so sick of seeing trash on the damn street, man...

i'm sick of y'all folk coming up outta the store, taking your little candy out & throwing your little paper on the ground - it's fuckin' up the hood...

also, man i'm sick of y'all folk standing around, you know, when you're talking to your folk or something, y'all drankin' on a little somethin' somethin' - you take it, you pour it out to your dead homey, but
then you throw the bitch right at him...

man, don't shut me up, home, i'm doin' what i do...

all around the next man, we fuckin' up our own hood."


Big Gipp

I'm gonna have to pop that disc in tonight.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

.

...many eons ago, the kids would get falling down drunk during Spring Festival, and make general chaos and destruction of those beautifully manicured lawns...

...but somehow, things were always spotlessly gleaming by Monday morning.

All people make messes (people are messes). Funding and infrastructure cleans things up.

people clean shit up...

period

which makes it easy to keep it clean
how is this not easily understood

clean up a lot on the block that had been run down...

I agree that funding helps in terms of providing services, for example, you need streets and sanitation to maintain the city.

But utimately a sense of self worth creates clean neighborhoods.

Its not either or its both and

>...many eons ago, the kids would get falling down drunk
>during Spring Festival, and make general chaos and destruction
>of those beautifully manicured lawns...
>
>...but somehow, things were always spotlessly gleaming by
>Monday morning.
>
>All people make messes (people are messes). Funding and
>infrastructure cleans things up.

Absolutely true. I had the same experience at both of the predominately white schools I attended (undergraduate and professional.) Those students could have cared less about their empty beer bottles on the ground (in addition to other unsanitary items). The difference is, they knew that the custodial staff would come right behind them to clean up their messes. I know that the poster was using litter to represent a bigger issue of personal responsibility, but let's not play the role of "blame the black man" and ignore the socioeconomic factors that affect these situations.

>unsanitary items). The difference is, they knew that the
>custodial staff would come right behind them to clean up their
>messes. I know that the poster was using litter to represent a
>bigger issue of personal responsibility, but let's not play
>the role of "blame the black man" and ignore the socioeconomic
>factors that affect these situations.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

that result in the decay of the neighborhood. I was making two points,

1) Black people are not more likely than "others" to litter and allow their community to decline (as your original post seems to imply.)I was using my experience living around white people to illustrate my point.

2)Let's look at the socioeconomic factors that result in the deplorable neighborhood conditions. (See Post #265) What you see is the culmination of years of indifference by local/state government, private property owners (many who don't even stay in the neighborhoods) and (some) residents. We can't just put the blame on Jojo and 'nem because he didn't pick up his gum wrapper.

what people in that neighborhood did. i'm not worried abotu what's more likely to happen. i'm speaking on what already happened.
but let's use rthis example.

white neighbohoods are cleaned by the city
black neighborhoods are not cleaned by the city
group of white folk dump trash on the streets in their neighborhoods
group of black folk dump trash on the streets in their neighborhoods


both are wrong and pretty deplorable
but who is the bigger fool here?

if my cholesterol is 315 and yours is 2.
why am i stuffing cheeseburgers down my throat worrying about you? but she eating the same thing.




always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
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I would rather look at "why" this is occurring. I think other posters have done a good job of discussing the complexity of the issue, so I'm not going to rehash it.

In the area where my grandfather lives, you frequently see piles of trash laying along the street. Are the residents lazy, trifling, nasty people? No, the city (and the sanitation workers) will NOT pick up the trash in a timely manner and sometimes they won't even come at all. What are they supposed to do? Let the trash pile up in the house? Maybe they're supposed to rent a garbage truck themselves and carry it out.

Anyway, I'm assuming that your post was written out of general concern for our people and not just to criticize, so I'm not going to knock you for your views--just wanted to present another perspective on the issue.

>I would rather look at "why" this is occurring.

i speci. asked "why do we do this to ourselves?"


>In the area where my grandfather lives, you frequently see
>piles of trash laying along the street. Are the residents
>lazy, trifling, nasty people? No, the city (and the sanitation
>workers) will NOT pick up the trash in a timely manner and
>sometimes they won't even come at all. What are they supposed
>to do? Let the trash pile up in the house? Maybe they're
>supposed to rent a garbage truck themselves and carry it out.

not the same situation we aren't talking about overflowing trash cans here. we are talking about people dumping shit and leaving beer bottles all over the place. the sanitation workers didn't place that shit done on the curb. the negroes on the corner did that shit


>Anyway, I'm assuming that your post was written out of general
>concern for our people and not just to criticize, so I'm not
>going to knock you for your views--just wanted to present
>another perspective on the issue.

it really was out of frustration AND concern.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
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if i could compile all of the racial buttons that existed that we've "touched" on these boards, it would look like nasa's control center.

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let's talk about Black folks that dislike Black folk

folks who rarely, if ever, have to say anything positive about their own

ALL they see (or at least talk about) is the negative

and for some strange reason they think/imply that the negative behavior is unique unto their own people, depite BEING an example that it's not

how odd is that?

it's like when someone prejudiced, when faced with an example of one of "them" who isn't like that, says "but they aren't like the ret of them" or "they aren't one of them"....except in this case the speaker doesn't seem themself as part of the group about which they are speaking

i've noticed this QUITE a bit here of late....whe got a whole lot of Sgt. Waters-types (see: soldier's story) around here.

sad

...matter of fact, assimilated people of color who are quick to say "Oh don't judge me like that, I'm not like them"..

It bugs me. At the end of the day, the skin color is still shared and that's what you're going to be judged as by others.

It's all cultures though, but just something that bugs me.

..... correct them when they are wrong?

or would you just rather blame whitey, when it's still your responsibility to keep your own area up?

Can't depend on them for everything... we talking about doing for ourselves but..... *shrug*

...ultimately, it shouldn't be the responsibility of another person to clean up the area. If you don't make a mess, you have a cleaner neighborhood.

I know that in a lot of white neighborhoods, even something as small as your lawn getting too high, they will be quick to call city officials to fine them. Gotta' take care of your neighborhoods.

fallin down fences.... bad paint on the house........ grass too high..... basketball goals not maintained...........

Home-owners association will spank dat a--.

they will be quick to
>call city officials to fine them. Gotta' take care of your
>neighborhoods.

.

what are you talking about?

is what he's saying. It should be clean without having to get the city involved.

People just need to take care of their stuff and have a sense of pride in whatever they own.

and I know you dont think that places like cities are kept clean by people standing outside cleaning and hauling things by themselves
you really cant be that delusional
I wont even get into property ownership

...everyone mowed their lawn, kept it clean, painted their own houses, paved their own driveways, kept their shit clean.

Hell, that's how it is here and this are is poor as hell.

It's not a city thing to come out and clean. I've been here a year and a half and I've yet to ever see anything beyond having prison-workers picking up trash along the highway.

It's ultimately up to the person who owns/rents the home to clean that shit up. It should be recognized, a call shouldn't need to be placed by a neighbor.

Just have some pride in what you have, that's all that should be needed.

after you empty your trash, does a trash collector not come to pick it up
if you had to get rid of a couch, could you call and have it picked up and it actually got picked up
did you have designated days you could leave stuff to be picked up
did pple not come when you called about your neighbors' filth?
were your streets swept?
these are luxuries that should not be luxuries that many take for granted

>after you empty your trash, does a trash collector not come
>to pick it up
>if you had to get rid of a couch, could you call and have it
>picked up and it actually got picked up
>did you have designated days you could leave stuff to be
>picked up
>did pple not come when you called about your neighbors'
>filth?
>were your streets swept?
>these are luxuries that should not be luxuries that many take
>for granted
>

I never saw a street sweeper. Yes, trash collector came to pick things up (out of a big community dumpster). I never called about my neighbors filth because everyone had a sense of pride about what they had, so they kept it clean. Designated days to leave stuff to be picked up? Yeah, thursdays. The garbage trucks still go to the poor areas... If anything, take your shit somewhere where it will be picked up, to an apartment dumpster and get that shit outta' where you live. Should they have to take their garbage somewhere else ie: dump? No, but that's life - it's certainly not fair. It just takes a sense of pride and the initiative to want to live in a clean neighborhood. Let the responsibility fall on poor people to clean their own area up because they ultimately have control over it.

...i can also see that the cities will do whatever it takes to make them money, they don't hesitate to squeeze money out of the poor in every other manner, you know?

I dont get what you're typing

...minimum wages are low, gentrification, etc..

Granted, everyone SHOULD strive to become college graduates (which would at least secure something decent pay-wise), but for some people life doesn't work out that way. That's a deeper issue within the layers too..

...I don't think the city would hesitate to milk the poor for more money.

of course cities keep some pple poor
these pple still pay their share of taxes though
and community amenities should apply to them as well
the city already milks the poor for money that they'll never see again

...they milk the poor...

..so what should stop them from milking the poor even more when it comes to coming out and fining people for not cleaning their shit up?

maybe you havent had this experience
but now that you know it happens does that even help you or are you still trying to generalize

...depends what you were trying to call the city for. The govt is ass backwards (even my mother who works for it will tell you that).. I'm not saying that they don't fail to do their jobs, Im saying that they shouldn't have to do the job of coming out and fining people because they can't clean up their own mess in the first place.

the poinnt is not that Black folks don't have things they need to address, moreso it (in this sub thread) is a

"with friends like that we don't need enemies" type deal

if all we hear outta you is the same thing we hear out of those who DON"T care about us, it's hard to tell which side of the fence you're on

similarly, when you're trying to help someone there are ways to do it that are more effective than others

setting yourself apart from US, as though YOU somehow transcended being a part of "Black folks" is an odd strategy

if you want the neighborhood clean, which is better: to pass by, point and say "you need to do better" or to joining up with some likeminded folsk and sayign "let US fix this"

lets call a spade a spade, this thype of thing isn't abotu helping US "do better" (a phrase which y'all have about milked past it's usefulness)...it's about looking down on your own and feeling/beign somehow superior

y'all say "we dont' need the man to hold us down, we do it to ourselves" yet don't see how Y-O-U are very much part of that. we don't need whitey to talk about how bad we are incessantly...we got you

>y'all say "we dont' need the man to hold us down, we do it to
>ourselves" yet don't see how Y-O-U are very much part of that.
>we don't need whitey to talk about how bad we are
>incessantly...we got you
>

that's not me. i discuss both. but i'm not a rest on my laurels type of person. more has to be done. more can be done. it's like a pro bodybuilder. he's contsantly tryin to improve. he doesn't just stop and keep admiring his physiquwe


>
>it's like when someone prejudiced, when faced with an example
>of one of "them" who isn't like that, says "but they aren't
>like the ret of them" or "they aren't one of them"....except
>in this case the speaker doesn't seem themself as part of the
>group about which they are speaking

i'm part of the group but there are definitely differences. can't apologize for that.

again the same way if a group of sigmas, savagely beat and kill a kid tryignto get in. u gonna say "i'm not like those sigmas" ain't nothing wrong with that in my mind.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

>that's not me. i discuss both.

do you? all jokes aside for a sec

your posts generally fit into one of a few categories. you're either joking, talking about people at your job(s) behind their back....with pictures even, talking about your daughter situation(s) or the situations of other cats who knocked up or associated withthe wrong woman, or jousting with pop culture references

i can't remember a SINGLE post abotu anythign positive Black folsk have done or do

that's nto to say it hasnt' happened....but I honestly can't remember them/it. i will say that if they/it has occured for ever one of those you've put up 10 "i hate niggers" type posts. f'rill

i think you're a pretty cool cat. if given the chance in real life i think we could be cool (friends maybe even) but staright up man to man...THIS kinda stuff gets tiring. after a point i truly wonder when you stopped seeing yrouself as part of the group that, if it exists, you're a part of.

you try to chop it real fine on some "i'm different than THOSE of us...and i guess that makes you feel better...but homie. even if you ARE somehow not in "that" group, if you're tryinng to help the rest of "us" then this ain't the way to do it

> but i'm not a rest on my
>laurels type of person. more has to be done. more can be
>done. it's like a pro bodybuilder. he's contsantly tryin to
>improve. he doesn't just stop and keep admiring his
>physiquwe

lets stay with that analogy. if you're training and 90% of what you hear is how slow you're progressing, comparisons to how well others are doing then you're gonna get weary. "tough love" doesn't work on EVERYONE. sometimes you gotta SHOW the love part too (as stated below). it's NOT abotu RESTING on laurels at all, but it's also just as much not about driving the folks you're supposed t be helping into the ground. you GOTTA see that

>i'm part of the group but there are definitely differences.
>can't apologize for that.

you shoudl though....or at least recognize that the level to which you dissect "us" isn't universal. there are plenty...within and without that when they see you...they see them

> again the same way if a group of sigmas, savagely beat and
>kill a kid tryignto get in. u gonna say "i'm not like those
>sigmas" ain't nothing wrong with that in my mind.

no. what i'll say is "not all sigmas are like that". afterward, rather than just distance myself....so as not to be spotted...i will recognize that they are part of "us" and simply for the sake of "us" we need to address their behavior (help 'em, rather than just hang 'em otu to dry) so when somebody who doesn't know better sees them i won't have to spend my whole life making excuses for them or myself

>
>that's nto to say it hasnt' happened....but I honestly can't
>remember them/it. i will say that if they/it has occured for
>ever one of those you've put up 10 "i hate niggers" type
>posts. f'rill

well i HAVE put them up. likewise when i see shit that frustrates me, especially simple easy to fix shit, i let my opinion be known about it.

>
>i think you're a pretty cool cat. if given the chance in real
>life i think we could be cool (friends maybe even) but
>staright up man to man...THIS kinda stuff gets tiring. after a
>point i truly wonder when you stopped seeing yrouself as part
>of the group that, if it exists, you're a part of.

let me be clear. i am a black person. i LOVE black people. but much liek the frat saying goes. every Kappa/Sigma ain't my brother. these assholes that happen to be african american that don't care about anybody but themselves, that would just as quickly do me and you harm without breathing. fuck em. on any level.

if i do what i need to do to better myself and elevate myself in whatever way, am i to be ashamed of that? hell no. is it wrong for me to say i made better decision than say a raper? hell no.

>
>you try to chop it real fine on some "i'm different than THOSE
>of us...and i guess that makes you feel better...but homie.
>even if you ARE somehow not in "that" group, if you're tryinng
>to help the rest of "us" then this ain't the way to do it

no coddling ain't the way to do it. that neighborhood that i spoke us, NO ONE put that trash there but who? us. PERIOD. that's the truth. look at the big gipp quote above. ever heard the remedy by q-tip and common. or how about "SELF" destruction? i'm just saying a lot of things that our race goes through (not all) is brought upon us by ourselves. that's the truth. if it hurts, say ouch and let's find away to take away the pain. as soon as the white man says some sideways shit, we ready to march, and protest and all that shit. the cops shoot a 13 year old that steas a car and joyrides, and fails to stop. we are outraged. well balance that shit up. where is the outrage that this guy's parents didn't raise him right? where is the outrage that his lil ass was out that late? where is the outrage that no one schooled him that moving a car in a cops direction IS seen as a threat? the outrage is here. i'm not gonna get punk'd into marching for any thug, hoodlum, n*gga, or R &B singer and supporting him when HE did some shit wrong...just because he's black.




>
>lets stay with that analogy. if you're training and 90% of
>what you hear is how slow you're progressing, comparisons to
>how well others are doing then you're gonna get weary.

yeah if i'm doing evething i'm sposed to be doing. but i'm not doing everything in my power. i'm eating twinkies and laying down all day

"tough
>love" doesn't work on EVERYONE. sometimes you gotta SHOW the
>love part too (as stated below). it's NOT abotu RESTING on
>laurels at all, but it's also just as much not about driving
>the folks you're supposed t be helping into the ground. you
>GOTTA see that

stating a fact "black man dumped a couch in his own neighborhood" ain't running anybody down. if anything after years and years of frustration, this is the result. i'm tired of a broke negro mad cause his lights got turned off,....but he's got the latest jordans and sneakers. i'm not gonna loan him money anymore, because obviously THAT ain't working. N*GGA STOP BUYING 100 DOLLAR SHOES AND PAY YOUR LIGHT BILL! THAT's tough love. cause if i didn't love, i wouldn't care. obviously i do care. it's for his own good he needs somebody to rile his ass up.

>>
>you shoudl though....or at least recognize that the level to
>which you dissect "us" isn't universal. there are
>plenty...within and without that when they see you...they see
>them

exactly i said that in my original post.

>
>> again the same way if a group of sigmas, savagely beat and
>>kill a kid tryignto get in. u gonna say "i'm not like those
>>sigmas" ain't nothing wrong with that in my mind.
>
>no. what i'll say is "not all sigmas are like that".

but u'd be one of the sigmas "not like that" right? no words games.

>afterward, rather than just distance myself....so as not to be
>spotted...i will recognize that they are part of "us" and
>simply for the sake of "us" we need to address their behavior

ok that's good for you. but any Kappa that did some shit like that. i'm like "hey you are a grwon man, u knew the fucking rules, the line was crossed, get the fuck out my face" cause n*ggas like that will bring us ALL down. those fuckas will bankrupt an entire frat? and why? were they doing it to help us and the frat? hell no. they were selfish. at some point you may be able to be like "look bruh, don't do that" but they have already passed that point.


>(help 'em, rather than just hang 'em otu to dry) so when
>somebody who doesn't know better sees them i won't have to
>spend my whole life making excuses for them or myself

they hang themselves out to dry. i mean really does anybody listed NOT know that:

trash goes in the garbage.
pissy mattresses don't belong on the side of the street
initiates ain't to be hit or hazed
bills are meant to be paid
you don't steal what doesn't belong to you....no matter what u may or may not have
when a cop tells u to stop, you stop
you don't fuck little kids....especially your family

etc...
(all problems that transcend color) ain't like these dudes are clueless, a lot of them make a decision to do the wrong thing. at that point, i'm not making u my enemy....u made yourself my enemy.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

The White man hasn't prevented us from cleaning up our neighborhoods and homes.

Fuck outta here with that self-hate shit...

.

ownership (or lack thereof) isn't a factor here?

If you reside there, it's yours.

Take care of it until you get something that is "yours".

or not realizing what the obstacles may be
and the pointing fingers and not doing anything

He for damn sure ain't worrying about us.

Are you?

hit dogs WILL holler

if the only reason you wanna help is so we will be more like (or not look bad to) "the others" then physician heal thyself

rather than look down your nose at how the lowly don't get right, stop and help...if nothign else it'll give your arguement a TAD more basis

If anything, that is what needs to be drilled into our collective heads.

The question is, why live like that?

What kind of values are being instilled in the future generations when they're led to think that it's alright cause Mommy or Daddy does it?

>>>The question is, why live like that?<<


**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

perhaps if there was an answer it'd be easier to see why that problem exists

"do better" damn sure isn't the answer

are the ones people tend to overlook.


**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

go ahead and give yourself the pat on the back i'm sure you feel that deserves

MEANWHILE....it ain't that simple

I live in a working class black neighborhood
and I pick up the trash around my neighborhood on a consistent basis... People see you care then they mimic your behavior...been here 7 years...and guess what? the shit works...i give gentle reminders to kids (and unfortunately sometimes grown-ups)
to toss trash in the TRASH can.

No, unlike you I don't sit around and make worthless excuses
for shit that I can DIRECTLY change/influence.

Unlike you, I believe in a more self-determined community
who doesn't sit around waiting for handouts.

And for damn sure ain't blaming whitey who is hardly worried
about MY community.


**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

think about that for a moment

>If anything, that is what needs to be drilled into our
>collective heads.

really? isn't that EXACTLY what the person who y'all are talking about would say? "I don't need to impress you (or lazy or burb) i'mma do what i'mma do"

>The question is, why live like that?

exactly. answer that question to someone who doesn't care about "us" like YOU supposedly do.

is THIS the method of explaination...or is this yet another indictment abotu how "they" are?

>What kind of values are being instilled in the future
>generations when they're led to think that it's alright cause
>Mommy or Daddy does it?

very good question. the answer to that is in the problem you all are describing.

but which is it gonna be? forget impressing whitey or "da man"....why shoudl they care abotu anythign but themselves and their comfort at any moment? why should they care abotu "the block" or "the hood"...as long as their house stays clean?

why SHOULD they take a piece of paper and throw it in a bin as opposed to on the ground....especially when they've seen mommma/daddy do the same thing?

clean?

*sigh*.......... nevermind with this post... I'll just lurk it.

instead of the PROBLEM.

Lazyboi, gone speak your mind, man.


**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

LAZY is arguing the people and not the problem

he's saying: "THOSE people need to clean up, not "we need to find a way to get and keep this clean"

am i missing something here?

>LAZY is arguing the people and not the problem
>
>he's saying: "THOSE people need to clean up, not "we need to
>find a way to get and keep this clean"

the way to keep this clean is for people not to litter and dump trash on the streets and lots.

sinking boat- dump the water AND plug the hole.



always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

thats what I'm talking about.

He's not lying...most people agree we see this all them time.

Home community littering is not so much racial as it is socio-economical though.

**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

as far as looking at the issue itself

WHERE WERE ALL YOU SUNSAB*TCHES (the ones who were here) BACK WHEN WE HAD THE OKAYCLEANUP DAY?

when it was time to address this VERY problem about which you speak NONE of you folkers lifted a single finger to help.

not Lazy, not Burb, not Zora

NONE OF YOU

y'all some sanctimonious fake-a$$-fakers

maybe y'all wer too busy then, hell do a second one now then...IF you're so damn concerned

CHALLONGE B*TCHES!!!!

but your EFFORT where your fingers are

"Okay clean-up day"...

I don't recall ANY of you muthafuckas in my community.

Did I miss something? I Take care of HOME.
Thats ALL anyone needs to do. and that is Lazy'z point.

You on the other hand...





**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

>I don't recall ANY of you muthafuckas in my community.

yourself included....which makes one wonder how " i take care of home" manifests itself (and moreso makes you wonder how come the same credit for the unseen that you ask for can't be given to someone else)

>Did I miss something?

the efforts of the folks here apparently

>You on the other hand...

me on the other hand WHAT?

your logic is horribly flawed and inconsistent.

it seems that you agree that people should
take up MUCH the responsibility of their own neighborhoods
(hence the okp clean up whatever) then you turn around
and talk about what white people ain't doing by sending in trash sweepers.

Do you not realize that LOCAL taxes subsidize these street cleaning costs?

????





**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

i make absolutely NO sense. i have NO idea what i'm talkign about. etcetra, etcetera

now you gonna help (http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=1505543&mesg_id=1505543&page=)

or is being right enough on this one?

**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

i didn't litter.

come on man

agian, why y'all "mad" at me and not at the people leaving that shit around?


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

on the ground?

this motherfucker blames the pepsi machine for not giving him a coke.



FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

>this motherfucker blames the pepsi machine for not giving him
>a coke.

but cheers

what abotu those in the neighborhood yo udescribe who also don't litter?

where is the credit you give THEM when you're painting wit that broad a$$ brush talkign abotu hwo "they" need to get they act together?

all i'm saying now is we can go back and forth till we're blue in the face...lets stop and figure otu hwo to FIX the problem YOU pointed out

you ask why i'm mad, and i'm "mad" because you refuse one to see:

1. that this method of "helping" doesn't work

2. no matter how much you wanna scoff at them, you ARE them

3. you're doing the exact same thing "the man" does with this ass backwards effort

you wanna be "right" and "righteous" but fail to see that the second you seperate yourself and start handing out judgements without doing anything to actually help (as opposed to just providing analysis of an obvious situation) then you're contibuting to the problem

and i honestly (maybe incorrectly) think you're better than that

every group that i'm not referring too. if i say "the sinks in the ladies bathroom needs to be shut off after wach use" do i really need to specify that the men are excluded from that statement?



>
>all i'm saying now is we can go back and forth till we're blue
>in the face...lets stop and figure otu hwo to FIX the problem
>YOU pointed out

JEEZ I DID. but i'll say it again. the people that litter need to stop. in a nutshell.

if you are in deep debt, does that mean stop buying groceries? no it means stop buying silly shit. people , including you which is why i don't understand this reply, have enough common sense to differentiate.

a sinking boat, dump the water and plug the hole. now..i need to speciafy that if your boat is not sinking, has no water in it, and no hole....this doesn't apply to you. thumbs up to all you hole-less boats out there. come on, man. u put the cast on the broken leg.


>you ask why i'm mad, and i'm "mad" because you refuse one to
>see:
>
>1. that this method of "helping" doesn't work

so we should close a blind eye and not speak about our problems? BULL! i'm mad now. black folk be on that shit too much. oooh don't say anything bad about us. we got fuck ups just like everybody else..but oooh they black, don't say nothing about them.

>
>2. no matter how much you wanna scoff at them, you ARE them
>
if i wasn't them i wouldn't care. how often you hear me complain about white folk...unless it's somthhing that affects us? bunch of white kids doing drugs in daddy's garage. u think i give a shit?

>3. you're doing the exact same thing "the man" does with this
>ass backwards effort

see number 1

>
>you wanna be "right" and "righteous" but fail to see that the
>second you seperate yourself and start handing out judgements
>without doing anything to actually help (as opposed to just
>providing analysis of an obvious situation) then you're
>contibuting to the problem

y'all kill me with this not doing "anything " argument. y'all have no idea what i do. i have no idea what y'all do. i only speak on what y'all say and what y'alll see. not once did i say anybody in here didn't sdo such and such. i said some of y'all be coddling negroes. shit needs to stop. i don't coddle. if you are hungry and your ass is too lazy to walk down the street to get some food. i'm not gonna coddle you and say . oh the white man should have a delivery service.


>
>and i honestly (maybe incorrectly) think you're better than
>that

i think black folk are better too.

i'm glad u say this. the term better means to be different in a way. so if i do something to better myself, isn't that separating myself from a group?


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

cuz you do a lot of mudslinging, instead of discussion.....

Calling out names and stuff.... but I guess I can't blame you.. most of the boards does it.

I said I was gonna lurk.... I got one thing to say...... why are their national cleanup days in those neighborhoods?

seems like folks ain't caring about their own neighborhoods... so I guess we shouldn't care either..... do you think it's gonna stay clean unless we go out their twice a year to HELP clean it?

Why is HELP needed? folks are able bodied.... they ain't handicapped.

Call me a self hater, but heck ain't nobody help me cut my grass this weekend.

>cuz you do a lot of mudslinging, instead of discussion.....

eh...call it "tough love" then

>Calling out names and stuff.... but I guess I can't blame
>you.. most of the boards does it.

is what i say true?

if so, then why judge it any differently than you did this post?

>I said I was gonna lurk.... I got one thing to say...... why
>are their national cleanup days in those neighborhoods?

why is water wet?

>seems like folks ain't caring about their own neighborhoods...

"seems"

>so I guess we shouldn't care either.....

btu at the same time we shoudl take the time to tell each other they ain't sh*t?

if you really don't care, then what is all this co-signing about?

i'm sorry, i thought it was abotu "if fam is doing bad, you gotta call it out"?

pick a side, you either care or don't

>do you think it's
>gonna stay clean unless we go out their twice a year to HELP
>clean it?

who is to say? maybe it will. maybe it won't.

but at least we would have DONE somethign to help, rather than point and chastise.

if you really LOVE someone you help, and you don't judge whether you'll help on the result. i love my son so i feel him, even though he's gonna get hungery later. i love my car so i wash it, even though it'll get dirty again. i love my neighborhood so i'mma clean it even if the neighbor next door won't.

>Why is HELP needed? folks are able bodied.... they ain't
>handicapped.

what quantifies as handicapped though?

>Call me a self hater, but heck ain't nobody help me cut my
>grass this weekend.

so in the end if they won't help you then you won't help THEM?

is THAT what it is to you?

and again, if it IS...then why care when their hood is dirty at all? hell, burbs grass is cut. burbs street is clean right?

"...but who is this white man who tells us what to do and what not to
do, whom I serve, and who tells me what is good for us? Is the white
man one of us?"

Willie E. Abraham
The Mind of Africa

The folks that don't evaluate a criticism on its face and get their panties in a bunch because someone criticized Black People.

If we're doing something wrong at disporportionately higher rate than other groups (Like out of wedlock births) than it's OUR problem and something we have to address within our own commuity as it's a problem with US.

I think it's sad that a lot of folks aren't evaluating criticims on face and are just bitching and moaning about people criticizing Black people.



Peace,










M2

the same three posters whining about the same stuff and calling it concern.

criticism is one thing, but these are questionable complaints (litter? come on, man). these complaints are misguided, and when it's all said and done, there's not a lot that these criticisms accomplish (is someone gonna read this scolding on OKP ------ or hear Dr. Huxtable chide them at some bougie gathering at Howard, and change their behavior because of it?)

there are things we can control, sure; i'm not sure how important litter is in the grand scheme of black progress, tho.

..........and make an effort to control the things you CAN control, you're not going to make any progress, because progress comes from gradually increasing the scope of the things you can control and then behaving accordingly.

If you don't take care of your home when you don't own it, suddenly owning isn't likely to change your behavior.

Plus, litter is simply ONE example of Blacks not doing enough to exert a positive influence on the things we CAN control.



Peace,








M2

in SF isnt exclusive to black neighborhoods, neither is drankin, making noise, or any of that, this city is a shithole!

Preach on, Brother Lazy.

YESSSSS PRRREEACH!

to the suburbs is clean, clean, clean. The only time I saw things messy was when the cities workers went on strike. I think the mayor of the city is responsible for ensuring that ALL neighbourhoods are kept clean and in order.

Now with the littering thing, I don't think it's specific to ONE race. Someone touched on ownership, I think that has ALOT to do with a person not littering in their neighbourhood

Plus it's inaccurate as Boodah pointed out.

Amazing what that xtra property tax money pays for.


"... 'we have been trying for decades to clean up New Orleans public housing to provide decent housing for residents, and now it looks like God is finally doing it for us.'"


S.ave O.ur S.elves.
Eff a gubment!

person to not put his trash into a trash can year after year. especially when the trash can is a few feet away.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

how often are the streets swept
how often do officiants (paid by taxes) respond to complaints/requests
and so on

taxes pay for certain amenities that unfortunately everyone does not get

couches and mcdonald's bags on the side of the road and in vacant lots and yards?

it's really simple. when a boat is sinking, what's the number one priority? dumping the water out..or plugging the hole?

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

in the communities I grew up in it wasnt a problem, it was taken care of
but I'm wise enough and traveled enough to know this doesnt happen everywhere
which allows me to be astute enough to realize that what you type is a sad, uninformed, narrow oversimplification
I'm done though
glwt
some folks will just never be able to see

>but I'm wise enough and traveled enough to know this doesnt
>happen everywhere

but u seem blinded to the sources

>which allows me to be astute enough to realize that what you
>type

or smart enough to overcomplicate the simplest of things sometimes. worrying about taxes and the like when a person asks why citizens litter is pretty extra.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

Where you can buy your ass a broom, a 30-gallon trash can and some bags?
Not THAT far away. It'll cost only $30.00 if you look for a sale.

How much does it cost to teach your kids not to litter?
Nothing but time and effort.

...

Stop making excuses.

who removes these bags after you bag them up
and so on
do you tell kids not to litter?
it takes a village

it takes a village
but the village of black ppl are dirty as shit

Sanitation doesn't go onto your front yard/side yard/porch/stoop and pick up soda cans and candy wrappers.

Sanitation doesn't walk around scooping up pitbull shit.

Sanitation doesn't make housecalls.

DO BETTER.

I've NEVER NOT ONCE seen a condition where trash was NOT picked up at least on a weekly basis if it was placed in (or even near) a trash receptacle in an apartment complex, or near a curb in neighborhood. Shit, even in the country where there ISN'T regular trash collection people are still blessed with the ability to take their trash directly to a landfill at least once a week. Maybe I haven't been around in the U.S., but I have yet to see a place in the suburbs or the inner city that didn't have trash picked up regularly.

>how often are the streets swept
>how often do officiants (paid by taxes) respond to
>complaints/requests
>and so on
>
>taxes pay for certain amenities that unfortunately everyone
>does not get

A COMPLAINT TO CITY HALL BY MY FRIEND.

"You sweep over (white section), but you do not come over here".
Plus.
"you have do not litter signs on that side of town, but none over here".

The Interstate/City medians on the other side of town are well kept (trash/grass).Except one underpass/business district.

I have called several times about our grass being cut.
The go to folk are passed on like it's not our jurisdiction(city vs state/county).

I kept getting numbers until it was done. Some improvement.

I told them that the grass on the medians represents the state/city/county negligence and not the people.

My friend did the same for her Neighborhood.

Nearby in my neighborhood (ghetto), when one lawn mower cranks up it is almost like a competition. Sounds of lawn mowers.Completed beautiful lawns.

Men and women. Teens.

The problem is just my street. One of the main thoroughfares.
But only like 3 blocks for most of the littering.

We do our share of maintenance. But littering.

Mostly children with candy wrappers.

Adults with liquor bottles thrown out of cars.
Adults passing thru.
Seems as tho they finish up their fast-food , baby pamper changes, weave pull-outs...
as they get to either one of these blocks after leaving the business district.

It comes from teens/adults and insiders/outsiders.A HEAVY flow of traffic in cars and walkers(residents/others).

ALSO.
My birth place appx. 1 mile down my now street is actually THE most run down neighborhood(housing).

BUT. The CLEANESTTT (litter free) for a Ghetto/Poorrr neighborhood.
And. Severalll more neighborhoods in that vicinity are the same. CLeanestt (litter free).

Honestly. I'm darn tired of picking up after "LitterBugs".

TAKE CARE OF HOME. BUT.

??? WHATEVER HAPPENED TO HAVING LITTER BAGS IN CARS/USING ???.

By anyone.

D'Angelo: @ www.dangelosangels.com . MISS NO PAGES.

seem to have a tenuous grasp on how local government works, and the significance of prop tax revenue.

it's the reason poor neighborhoods have worse schools, worse public spaces and services, etc.

property taxes and worse schools don't have much correlation with you throwing a ____wrapper on the ground.....


I'm with Lay on this one....there ARE things that we can do.

I'm not overlooking the big picture...but just because adversity has hit these areas...it seems we have given up on some ol', "well...they don't care so I don't either" type steez

but litter?

LITTER?

litter is a sign of a larger problem; if people felt it was worth it to pick it up, don't u think the would?

so how come people don't feel it's worth it?

(or are those people just trifling and slothful?)

>I'm not overlooking the big picture...but just because adversity >has hit these areas...it seems we have given up on some >ol', "well...they don't care so I don't either" type steez


hence why some...not all, cuz some of us ARE lazy.....litter

definitely not OUR OWN......

ok...I'm being silly, but yeah...just cuz they don't care doesn't mean that we should buy into it and demean our self worth.

how is "do better" or "you folks need to be more like..." gonna help in ANY way?

what kinda bass ackwards "help" is that?

the line between "tough love" and abuse is a thin one (the key factor being hwo you're showing...as opposed to just declaring the "love" part)

example, if my son isn't doing well in school and my solution is to constantly remind him of how dumb he is....that's not gonna work

Burb wants to play the "they're gonna call you a racist" card, but if it ain't that then what is it. there's no love here shown AT ALL. and it's yoru OWN people....but they/he doesn't see it like that. it's always "they" need to do this "they" need to do that.....how is that ANY different than when whytey says "they need to get their act together"? it's not

Lazy loves throwing out that scene from the Cosby shwo when Vanessa told her parents she was married and her dad explained that she brougth the good news like a steak dinner on a garbage can. i wonder hwo come he can't see that THIS is the same damn thing?

...isn't helpful? Wallowing in negativity is? OK.

what?

do you think this post is "aspiring to help?"

how so?

the man said he drove by, noticed, shook his head, said "those people" then ran (a couple days later) to the net to complain to US?

hwo is he showing THOSE folks something to aspire to by coming in here and either fussing with the dissenters, OR but getting so-signs from the rest of the finger pointers?

GTFOOH

as you and i sit here and type this....not a single piece of ANYTHIGN is being kep of MLK near I-20

please

stuff i speak of is shit. u can't dress shit up. shit has to be dealt with harshly.



always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

you ARe gonna show him the error of his ways. and as soon as he opens his mouth about what the other kids are doing, what are u gonna say?

u aren't gonna say anythign about hims listing positive things other kids are doing. dad, brian jackson keeps getting the answers correct in class. but i'm gonna beat him. dad brian jackson got the starting position ont he baskeball team, but i want it. u are gonna say son, do your best. especially if you KNOW your son has the potential to be ont he starting five but he's not applying himself. u aren't gonna say, well brian jackson has the new airjordans

but as soon as lil boodaah ....(that's cute..no homo) says "but dad all the kids at the school were sniffing it"
whate are you gonna say?



always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

none of us work at your hotel. did you go tell them niggas they are fuckin up?





FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

:P just messin wit'cha lazyboi.. I don't agree with your post, but we're all entitled

there are some things that we can do....and I know that the city cares more about some "areas" than others, but that isn't really an excuse.

If anything, it should make us (yes us...ALL OF US) aware of that and we should have even more pride and initiative to take care of our areas of the cities we live in....because we know that they don't really care about us ©MJ

Yes...we don't own much, yes...we're in a bad predicament....yes the city govt's have given up on our areas...but does that mean that we have to as well??

America doesn't care if I get a degree/educate myself...hell, it would benefit more if I was in prison...but that doesn't mean that I'm just gonna say fukkit and feed into that shit...it makes me want to ACHIEVE even more...cuz I know they (whoever you wanna insert) don't give a fuck about me or my empowerment as a black man......

The Reliant stadium area went from treasure to trash in a matter of minutes. Why? Hmm.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<-----Payton in the dryer
RIP ODB ;(
http://www.myspace.com/wugambina
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2133755326

for EVERYONE involved....

I guess.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<-----Payton in the dryer
RIP ODB ;(
http://www.myspace.com/wugambina
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2133755326

oh wow.

oh wow.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<-----Payton in the dryer
RIP ODB ;(
http://www.myspace.com/wugambina
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2133755326

the same is true for any race.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<-----Payton in the dryer
RIP ODB ;(
http://www.myspace.com/wugambina
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2133755326

i'm done w/ this thread.

uhm....i just left there and frankly this is a bold lie

treasure?

c'mon nah

trash?

please....liek they were gonna REALLY let those folks tear that up.

lets not forget they had 25000 people LIVING there, with no real plan for help/cleanup/maintenance

i KNOW for a fact that after housing folks there for a couple of weeks it didn't look any worse than it does after a 3-hour game (cups/trash)...they just clean up faster after tha game

the thing I can't figure out lazyboi, is that the dumber you get, the more proud of how stupid you are you seem to get as well.

I'M SO DIFFERENT THAT I MUST BE RIGHT is a poor argument strategy, well, unless you're a dumbass.


keep fighting the good fight tho, sooner or later you'll convince these fucking niggers its their own fault and you were right all along.


FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

anything to a discussion. i have no idea what you responded with cause i didn't read it. why didn't i read it? cause EACH AND everytime there is a serious discussion, you can never bring up good points or discuss shit like an intelligient human being. (unless dan is asking the question) just always your insults and you trying to, what us wrestlers call, push your little gimmick. ok napoleon? mmmkay


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

but its because I can add 2 + 2.

Being literate is really a handicap when it comes to attempting to converse with you.

your complete and total inability and/or unwillingness to read makes you difficult to communicate with.

I tried being reasonable with you, but you apparently think you are the only person who sees someone fucking up in your opinion and says "the problem is a hole group of people need to do better, because if THEY all did better, THAT person wouldn't be fucking up"

you're just dumb, sorry I don't have a speak and spell and about 4 years, maybe someone else can help you, maybe not.



FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

.

so who's responsible?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<-----Payton in the dryer
RIP ODB ;(
http://www.myspace.com/wugambina
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2133755326

and assign it to groups now?

I think thats pretty clearly what I said.

lazy has problems with people he meets. his response to these issues is to say "black people are fucking up" on an interent message board. and he's surprised that he's not really getting anywhere.


where am I losing you?


he's an idiot in the same way the people who talk to some maniac on the train who preaches to them some gibberish and then comes on here saying "christians are FUCKING UP" are, he's just much more persistent.



FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

cuz clearly blacks aint the only ones...so who then, is responsible?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<-----Payton in the dryer
RIP ODB ;(
http://www.myspace.com/wugambina
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2133755326

what exactly are we talking about?

and also, we cannot put group assignement aside, thats the point of why this is stupid.

he did it. it's dumb. you can't just put that on the shelf and not discuss it because you want to avoid calling lazy a dumbass for saying something so stupid. if it weren't the central point of his post, we would not be discussing it, to try and avoid discussing it, is disingenuous.


he listed like 20 different things, which one are interested in assigning blame for, and why are you stuck on assigning blame?


FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

trying to call somebody else stupid over their expression on certain issues.

If you don't agree...cool...but at least site some rationale behind your insults besides your usual trash.

I copped out oout of explaining why he was wrong, by simply cosigning him and saying he was right, and would someday be proven right, sorry you didn't get that far.

:)



FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

i fucking hate dirty ass blacks man
and we all ain't dirty
seems like city blacks or poor blacks have no self respect
it's no excuse for the trifling shit they do man
clean ur fucking kids
clean ur fucking house
clean ur fucking sidewalk
it ain't hard
and ain't no city or township on EARTH paying ppl to keep the community clean
fuck outta here wit that bullshit excuse
maybe if it's downtown where they have municpal workers cleaning
but i never seen a person sweeping and cleaning a residential area in my life
the RESIDENTS keep it clean
if they happen to be white
and the dirty areas happen to be black
THAT's the RESIDENTS man
now i live in voorhees in a pretty clean complex
but a fucking young unemployed black bitch lives next to me
and guess what!!!!
the kids be dirty and the fucking door mat be dirty as shit
out of the WHOLE complex
the only dirty ass bitch is a young black chick wit kids
it's mad young white ppl round there
and black professionals
all clean
it's only the poor ghetto blacks ruining shit man

Nah'mean...

That shit comes from neglectful parenting and plain laziness.

Excluding all of us, who are probably at WORK on our computers, alot of Black folks just DON'T have that battery in their backs to get up and make a positive change in their lives... not even a small one.

It doesn't take much to sweep, that's all I'M saying.

it don't take much to
go to school
not get pregnate at 16
not sell drugs
not go to jail
keep the hood clean
etc

but yet that's all shit we as blacks can't stop doing

...we'll continue doing wrong.

>but i never seen a person sweeping and cleaning a residential
>area in my life

...have been cleaned by employees of the management company that owns the property (the public areas of the complex, that is).

Property taxes is why I burnt breakfast.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

you rangling with RJCC above about discounting (or not presenting) reasonable arguements.....but then you do this?

inject words that were never stated?

for really real, did you just wanna soapbox or did you wanna discuss?

if the latter, then why the sarcasm/glibness?

i know: know your audience...but for real...if you summarize all that's been said as THAT, then hell

maybe you ARE dumber than all our discussions in the past would have led me to believe

i'm of the belief that

the city govt. and the citizens should keep a city clean. why should the citizens aren't doing their part to keep it clean, then why are we pissed at the city govt? shouldn't we do what we can first?

when u are on a bench bench pressing, you have a guy spot you through out all the reps. you do what u can THEN the guy comes in with the spot. if i fail to bench 500 pounds, i'm not gonna be pissed at my spotter. i need to wonder why i put 455 pounds of weight on a 45 pound bar in the 1st place.




always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

>the citizens aren't doing their part to keep it clean,
>then why are we pissed at the city govt? shouldn't we do what
>we can first?

you drove past. you have NO IDEA what those folks there are doing on a daily

beyond that though, if i fill the trash can and the trash can never gets emptied....is it MY fault when the can overflows?

don't act like everything is cut and dried. don't be so quite to be judge, jury and executioer OF YOUR OWN PEOPLE man.

the only junky place. but when i see a muddy couch next to a 7 year old whaler box, AND BK angus burger wrap. am i really assuming that some one put it there?

They built a mcdonalds , and a basketball court down the street from my mom's house. the fence is all tore down now. why? cause negroes didn't wanna use the fence opening to walk an and out. they'd rather create their own opening. why? cause those particular negroes are lazy and selfish. it's not their fence. (ler me go to their momma's house and tear down their fence and leave shit around and they ready to fight) and mcdonald's papers are all up in there everywhere? why? cause negroes didn't wanna put it in the 4 trash cans there. now mcD's sends people to come clean it up every now and then but it returns. in a higher concetration there than any other place. am i to assume that the trash walked there?



when you see deer shit, it pretty much mean bambi has been in the vicinity and dropped the shit there.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

trash collection or waste management
where i now live u pay property taxes AND an individual contractor to come collect ur trash
niggas on this site never left the porch i think sometimes

and if u talking strictly about white hoods in a city , then they pay at least similar property taxes
and maybe if the black hoods wasn't so dirty the property would be worth more to generate more taxes to pay for more services

...
...
...
...

<----- CocoaCure is a bitch, one u do not trust...You leave yo man around me Belive I'll have him cake me up.

thats a quotable

**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

___________________________
Height Queen Extraordinaire

<----- CocoaCure is a bitch, one u do not trust...You leave yo man around me Belive I'll have him cake me up.

ha!

gentrification and site what the government isn't doing or didn't do as their rationale. Everything is not the fault of the government.

We have some accountability as well.

which in essence allows him to control us
niggers are retarded

you call this tough love, but i NEVER
pick up on the LOVE part of what you say.

when i was in d.c., it was folks on my block
that was forever complaining about the way
the neighborhood was, and how 'black folks
this and black folks that.'

yet, when i went to community activist
meetings, them bamas were never there.
even though i made a POINT to put
flyers on their doorsteps, they never
showed up for the meeting. but let me
walk past them during the week, and sure
enough, they'd be blowing my ear up about
how 'ITS JUST A SHAME HOW WE ACT.'

to me, they were just aimless complainers.
they wasn't really trynna HELP nobody, they
just wanted to point fingers. they were
no better - in my mind - than the folks
who they were talking about. in fact, in
some ways worse, cause they SAW the problem
and ain't do shit about it.

i don't get where you are coming from
with this talk, man.


practice F.R.O.D.O. you'll be less bitter...

F.R.O.D.O. = FOR RIDE OR DIE ONLY

“The spirituality of which I speak in principle, I have never attained to.” (c) wesley

truth because it may hurt some feelings.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

in the stuff he said. BILL BENNET told the
TRUTH, in saying if you abort all black babies,
crime would go down. shit, if you kill 15% of
any population, crime will go down.


what is the virtue in 'speaking the truth', really?
it can be twisted just as much as a lie.

and, as it pertains to making a case like this,
MOTIVE matters to me much more. to me, it doesn't
seem like you are 'speaking the truth' to help
anybody, but moreso, you are using the truth
to make yourself look better. because this 'truth'
you are saying isn't a revelation or new, so what
is the point of it? who do you think you are
enlightening with this?

what is your motive?

i discount the TOUGH LOVE angle you present,
because you've been posting stuff like this
for a minute, but i've never heard you post
how you chose to HELP ANYBODY or try to DO
SOMETHING ABOUT these true problems you see.

as it pertains to black people at large, gimme
somebody like boodah, who HELPS FIRST, and then
says his piece, over folks who CRITICIZE FIRST,
and then don't try to help.

shit, i'll even take a cat like ROBERT WOODSON
or FARRAKAHN, who criticize, but at least still
tries to help.


practice F.R.O.D.O. you'll be less bitter...

F.R.O.D.O. = FOR RIDE OR DIE ONLY

“The spirituality of which I speak in principle, I have never attained to.” (c) wesley

cause imo thats ALL he's responsible for
so iono why a person couldn't complain about the overall situation as long as THEIR shit is intact
what a nigga supposed to single handedly clean the whole hood by his self before he can say shit?
stfu homes
each man has accountability for HIS SELF
but u can still bitch about the mishaps of ur people as long as u leading by example

claim over anybody but himself, imo...

>>cause imo thats ALL he's responsible for
so iono why a person couldn't complain about the overall situation as long as THEIR shit is intact<<<

complaining is fine, as long as it is couched
as what it is 'aimless complaining' - as i said.
but 1.) complainers annoy, cause shit ain't
never got made better by complainers, and

2.) don't be trynna recast COMPLAINING as
TOUGH LOVE. to me, they are not the same.

i would respect folks more if they said 'FUCK THEM
NIGGAS, THEY SUCK AND THEY MAKE ME LOOK BAD.'

i'd still clown, but at least i'd respect a mug
for dropping their honest opinion.

>>>what a nigga supposed to single handedly clean the whole hood by his self before he can say shit?<<

not even. but i've lived in hoods that got cleaned up
(see: ledriot park in d.c.) and it started with folks
like lay who were dissatisfied and decided to do soemthing
about it. they ORGANIZED other folks, got with the city
and found out they could get cleaning tools for FREE, and
got to work.

like i said, a mufucka can complain all they want to.
just be ready to get clowned/looked at funny for it.
especially when they aren't trynna help.


>>> but u can still bitch about the mishaps of ur people as long as u leading by example<<<

chrue. i got props in the neighborhoods i lived in
because i kept my shit nice and neat. mugs noticed.

but DRIVING THROUGH on your way somewhere else is not
'leading by example', no matter how fly your shit is.
cause if folks can't see you, you're not an example to them.
you are a 'hatin' ass _________, on their way through
the hood.'

practice F.R.O.D.O. you'll be less bitter...

F.R.O.D.O. = FOR RIDE OR DIE ONLY

“The spirituality of which I speak in principle, I have never attained to.” (c) wesley

have to do with people dumping bed mattresses in the neighborhood?
i mean u didn't need property taxes OR the city to get it moved IN your house from where it was from when u still slept on it.

"gheto like pissy matresses" (c) talib kweli


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

almost NEVER agree with you and I understand your sentiment totally.




<----- CocoaCure is a bitch, one u do not trust...You leave yo man around me Belive I'll have him cake me up.

with you making up your bed or washing your dishes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<-----Payton in the dryer
RIP ODB ;(
http://www.myspace.com/wugambina
www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2133755326

**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

on my block in harlem, i often sit on my stoop or play with the kids outside. invariably, after an ice cream truck visit or run to the bodega, they'll stand there and just drop their trash wherever they're standing. trash cans are at each corner of the block, and beside every couple buildings. when i see them do it, i say "don't litter, we live here." the first few times, they picked up the trash and threw it in the street instead. now, at least when i'm there, we walk to the trash together.

but the gentrifus do it, too. (my name for the whites now inhabiting my building and harlem in general). they sit outside and flick their nasty marlboro butts on the sidewalk, or leave their starbucks bags on the stoop. i say something to them, too. usually a "you done with that?" as they attempt to leave trash behind. the difference is, the kids honestly didn't seem to know better; they were doing what everyone else did. while the gentrifus could claim the latter as an excuse, i doubt they did that shit in their connecticut neighborhoods.

<----- CocoaCure is a bitch, one u do not trust...You leave yo man around me Belive I'll have him cake me up.

we'd be better off w/o u

to me than a LOT of these n*ggas out here. the same way you wouldn't hire a lot of these n*ggas out here. ha ha real talk


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

more poeple should be. you'd never have ot worry about finding my burger king bag on your lawn, parkingmy car in the yard, smelling my dog shit, having your home vibrating due to my music, not calling the cops if i see somebody breaking in your house, hell even breaking in your house. i may not take your property level up, but i won't bring that shit down. i'd even look out for you.

i'm on that state farm insurance shit.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

than litter......what would u say to that?

example. a piece of a puzzle u understand. of course u under stood that. that's why i laid out several things that u wouldn't hve to worry about living next door to me.



always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

i can't counter your one liners, fire


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

now that was effin funny. i'm sorry

SIG CORNER

"I guess you think u made a point huh?" Sometimes I can't believe I post with u people...." - Ms_Myn_Tight

MOTTO FOR '05
Change or die (c) dreadmedia

Avatar brought to you by Lugey :O)

what are you going to do now?

are you going to print up a banner that says "RJCC says yall niggers are fucking up" and parade it through the streets? I mean whats the plan here.

should I print it up?

t-shirts?

bumper stickers?

radio advertisements?

I'm restless

FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

be a good lil fella and archive this next week? thanks

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

by archiving a post you make every single day?

is this how the movement starts?

I'm tryin to take it to the streets baby.



FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

do not archiv

.

______________________________


*TWINNING*

european ass in an effort to become more assimalated nigga

______________________________


*TWINNING*

We don't need to look as a this or that solution/problem. There can be mulitiple things at play here. There is a park in DC that had aboout 5 trash cans and there was always trash everywhere. Then I noticed about 10 more paper receptacles placed there I presume to help with the mounting trash. There is still trash on the ground. So part of it could be that the city isn't paying attention to this area so trash will build up. But when there are 15 trash cans with no trash in them and trash all over the ground there is another problem.

Then you have case where certain areas of DC just outright don't get serviced. If it snows we all know who is gonna get their streets plowed and their trash picked up first.

There is an element of personal responsibilty, community responsibility, and organizational responsibility. We have to look at the problem at all levels. There are multiple factors at play. So all of you have valid points.

We can sit here all day long talking about what people aren't doing. So if WE want to change things we have to be that change. Obviously if people aren't motivated to keep their areas clean then there has to be an intervening force. Pointing fingers isn't going to change a darn thing. If you care so much about us then do for us regardless of wheter you think it's appreciated or not. You care enough to complain but do you care enough to organize and act? We have social problems no doubt but they aren't just gonna up and solve their own problems.

u have a drug addict in the family, can u really help him if you skirt around the issue that he indeed is doing drugs?

but if you say , uncle pete, u on drugs, u need to stop it. that's fingerpointing. i honestly think people are over sensitve. if you are afraid of short pain needles, you'll NEVER get the medicine

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

did you give him a resource guide?
is uncle pete on drug cuz he's black?
what about uncle pete's white friend, what's his problem?
did uncle pete ship the drugs here?

There are factors at the individual level, social support, community resources, organizational policies, government level that affect all these problems. The way you write about this is that simply that it's all individuals who create these problems and have the means to solve these problems.

p.s. I bet you uncle pete throws his crack vial on the ground when he's done. Do you really think uncle pete cares about his littering problem?

People don't have these problem cuz they are black. They have these problems because they have other problems.
___________________________
Height Queen Extraordinaire

yeah i said u need to stop doing durgs. it ain't that hard. pete needs help. but addition is powerful but some people are addictied to being lazy. and the only thing that can help them if if somebody lights a fire under their ass and THEY do their part. i can help my child study buit i can;t take the class and test for her.


>is uncle pete on drug cuz he's black?
what?

>what about uncle pete's white friend, what's his problem?
does uncle pete's white friend live with me? my momma always told me "if edward jumps off a bridge u gonna do it to?" when it comes to things of a negative nature we waste too much time worrying about other folks.


>did uncle pete ship the drugs here?
oh nooo they shipped them to his doorstep and in his body too. nobody is FORCED to do anything. i think we do a disservice to grown adults by providing that cop out to them. there is rat poison outside, id be a fool if i ate it. no matter who placed it there.


The way you write about this
>is that simply that it's all individuals who create these
>problems and have the means to solve these problems.

negative. some problems we can't control, some we can. the ones that we can, we need to. but we don't. period. and we don't need people making excuses. if a negro has 100 dollars but doesn't pay his light bill...yet goes and cops those jordans, then that's something HE had pwer over to fix. not the whiteman's fault.

>
>p.s. I bet you uncle pete throws his crack vial on the ground
>when he's done. Do you really think uncle pete cares about his
>littering problem?

that's the basis of my post.


>People don't have these problem cuz they are black. They have
>these problems because they have other problems.

that's true, but i was talking to black folk. the neighborhood in question was a black neighborhood.





always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

how bout you hip him to course in money management, give him your Suze Orman book yo. yes people do dumb shit but there is always an underlying reason. i'm not asking you to save the world but it's simple stuf we can each do to help the next man.

about uncle pete. addictions are hard but plenty of folks break theirs. so we can tell unle pete to get off drugs but we can help uncle pete get off drugs. or when uncle pete is ready to get off drugs he will know that you will be there to support him.

i'm not talking about coddling folks by anymeans. but you can mos def help folks help themselves. otherwise we can complain till be blue in the face. everyone can't be helped. just like i'm sure you have improvements you need to make in your life. if you got the knowledge or the talents why not share it.


___________________________
Height Queen Extraordinaire

cuz it might mean we'd have to do better.

and we cant have that, yahnamean.

**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

___________________________
Height Queen Extraordinaire

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=1505543&mesg_id=1505543&page=#1505687

looks like my shit was a catalyst.

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

impassioned debate. worthwhile topics. thanks, lazyboi!

will perdue's and scott hastings in here but still. this is great debate by both sides

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

this: http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=1504566&mesg_id=1504566&page=#1504973


always get a test:
http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

will perdue's and scott hastings in here but still. this is great debate by both sides

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

maybe black folk will....

Waaaaaaaaaaaaake uppppppppppppppp!!!! (c)Dap_SchoolDaze

one day

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

more litter, but on the other hand, (this is gonna sound cliche) but my black friends generally are cleaner than my white friends. and by cleaner i just mean hygeine wise, and just more enviromentally conscious. my white friends will throw bottles of coke and pizza boxes out the window on the high way and not shower for days when they are sick... my black friends wont even throw chips on the ground...so i dunno. like someone said above, people are gonna litter everywhere, but the city also helps clean up neighborhoods too and well, they help in some more than others so...i dunno.
i do know this, when white people drive threw my neighborhood they throw shit out the window onto the streets ALL the time, i live near the lakewood amphitheater so they're down here quite alot. so fuck them.

My College was in a low income neighborhood, it got hit hard after the PA steel industry was went down the crapper.

Most of the people in the neighborhood didn't have much and most of them were renters, renting houses from the few dozen people who owns all the homes in the neighborhood - although, you did have some owners thrown in, older people who bought their homes back when they were making good money at the Steel factory.

The area is completely neglected by the city and looks run down in places; the college even provides directions to the school that allow you to circumvent the bad neighborhood entirely.

In truth, it's not that bad, it's not Ghetto - but compared to the places my college chums and I came from, yeah, it's bad.

Thing is - I didn't see Garbage piled up or the general neglect I've seen in similar neighborhoods with Blacks in them.

It's one thing not to care as much because you don't own the property, it's far another to suspend the rules of common sense and decency out of pure ignorance. The real issue here is that regardless of what the Govt. does, there ARE things we can to make our surroundings better and in many cases, we just don't do them.

Now, are Whites guilty of this at times as well?

Sure.

Are all Blacks guilty?

No.

But I don't care what Whites are doing, I care what WE'RE doing as it reflects bad on the rest of us and just based on anecdotal evidence, we're guilty of it more often.

I'm in agreement with the original poster with regards to Hotels as well, as a regular Business Traveler it's annoying when the White & Latino maids are always polite and the Black ones are often rude.

Now, I would think that a poor White Maid would be more likely to be rude to the Black Business Traveler in the expensive Hotel Room than the Black one would be - but in my experience, the opposite may be true.

Can't tell you how many times I've had a Black Maid cleaning my hotel room (or cleaning my office) talk shit to me when I'm just sitting there minding my own business.


"So you think you're all that?"

"No, I think I'm eating Lunch and watching TV"


IMO - there are certain segments of the Black Population who hurt their own cause, unfortunately, a lot of us have deemed them above any possible criticism and/or would rather make excuses for them. Sort of like the miscreant relative (That people of all races have) that people in the family make excuses for instead of taking that person to task.

It's funny - it's like there is a list of things you're allowed to criticize Black people for (and certain Blacks you can critize) and everything else is off-limits - because: "White people do it too" or "it's the Govt" - as if to say, "those people don't have to change their behavior"

Which really means: "Progress will be slow because we don't want to get our own houses in order"




Peace,










M2

Why is that Black people can't get MAD upset when a neighborhood is gentrified:

-Whitey is stealing our neighborhood

-This is our neighborhood so if they're going to make changes, we should be involved in the decision

-Get out of our neighborhood

-This is just a scheme to steal our neighborhood

-We're losing the neighborhood

-West Side Fool!

-Gentrification is just white folks talking the neighborhood

So when folks have to move, it's THEIR neighborhood, but when you criticize people for not keeping the area around the dumpster neat, for not just taking out their trash, taking care of your home, keeping it clean - BASIC COMMON SENSE, the things you should do whether you own your home or not......it's the Government's Fault, it's because they don't own, so what do you expect, etc.

What kind of Ignorance is that?


It doesn't matter if we all don't do it or if Whites do it too, anyone who DOES do it should be criticized, Blacks especially because we need to hold our selves to a higher standard in this society, as the bad one of us down reflects on the rest.




Peace,










M2

and I dind't have to argue with anyone.

*sigh*

The more I stay on OKP the more I realize the majority aint about nothin.

"It's funny - it's like there is a list of things you're allowed to criticize Black people for (and certain Blacks you can critize) and everything else is off-limits - because: "White people do it too" or "it's the Govt" - as if to say, "those people don't have to change their behavior""


who said that in any way at all, I just want to know who you are talking to.

who said you can not criticize people for fucking up.

if you're inventing someone to disagree with, you should stop.



FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

let's agree, at the beginning, that poor people don't actually own the property they live in.

now:

in the late 1980s, the city of East St. Louis, which is overwhelmingly black and overwhelmingly poor, was so broke that it actually did away with its garbage collection service. there was a period of *years* where people had no place to put their trash, and were burning them in lots (one of which was across the street from a school). what wasn't burned piled up in the streets and on sidewalks.

(from Jonathan Kozol's "Savage Inequalities")

now, we also know that city/local services are almost always paid for largely through property taxes; townships with higher average property values in turn have better funded civic services, like police, schools and also have better infrastructure.

we also know that, the relationship between property taxes, civil services, and property value is symbiotic and works both ways: the better the schools/roads/police department in a town/suburb are, the more the houses in the suburbs are worth (and thus, the more the tax revenue which means better schools which means more valuable property which means more tax revenue...)

now, let's also assume that it's understood that people take more value in the shit that's *theirs.*

(and yet people in this thread are arguing *that*)

but in addition to ownership/pride --- do y'all recognize that, in neighborhoods where the property value is indeed high, that there would be *more* social pressure from other people in the neighborhood to maintain a well-manicured lawn? a neighborhood like that will also be more dilligent about sanctioning folks who violate rules about lawn care or unsightly homes, because *that* unsightly house or unkempt lawn ultimately fucks up the value of *their* homes.

we can also assume that because the quality of social services *also* has an impact on how much folks homes are worth, owners would demand that their social services (garbage pickup?) be efficient. which means they'll be paying attention to local elections and all that stuff, and vote.

but wait a second...poor people don't own anything. so they don't have a stake in the pecuniary value of the homes in which they live. so in turn they don't have a stake in the kind of services they have, and so there's also no larger social pressure to pick up trash/mow lawns etc. etc.

but the biggest handicap the poor face is a sense of entitlement. they don't feel *entitled* to better services, so they don't demand it. they don't have the resources to own or the social networks to demand better, so they don't.

if you want to get rid of litter ---- because that's apparently the biggest issue in the daily lives of poor folks ---- you have to get rid of the lack of social networks and ultimately, the lack of a sense of entitlement.

but where does that lack of entitlement come from?

the simplistic answer is LAZINESS and SELFISHNESS.

the multifaceted answer is that many people had parents who never had and their parents never had; their reality is one that is defined largely by deprivation of the stuff that even tenuously middle class folks take for granted.

so my question is: where does their never having had come from?

...lick the truth til the lie is all gone.

www.myspace.com/whoislena

.

What happened to "taking care of what you DO have"?

How do holes appear in walls?
How do weeds grow 2 feet high in yards?
How does that glass get smashed up off the side of the curb?

Shit is neglect, money.

"Why do we neglect?" should be your question.

This "never having had" shit sounds like a typical "Blame Whitey!" excuse.

Not saying he don't have a hand in it, but he ain't THAT focused on us...

Let's be real.

Not having is no excuse to just neglect your personal living space, what kind of ignorant shit is that? "I don't own my home so I'm going to trash it and let the garbage pile up"



Peace,







M2

...just cause you don't own it.

You still gotta pay for that shit in some form!!!
Be it monetarily or points on your driver's license!!!

DRIVE CAREFULLY!

I'd like to see that defense in court:


"I've never owned a car, so I don't know to not drive this Avis car into a telephone pole"




LOL




Peace,






M2

failing to change the oil or gas it up and not knowing what to do when it stops running.


but don't let me stop the jokes.


FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

**************************************
"sorry if i don't find transexual chipmunks sexy sue me" --okphomo-southphillyman
"The sexy diesel afro-mouse returns" --okp kayru99
http://www.myspace.com/261

...and Jesus is gonna come back and make everything better.

that's what i thought.

you're giving me platitudes and soundbites.

pick up a newspaper. read a book. something.

LBJ's (a Democrat)Civil Rights Act of 1964 passes. his party, long the home of working-class white male voters, watches a huge chunk of its white voters --- who are opposed to integration --- defect to the Republican Party. and they're pissed.

the Republican Party proceeds to play to the principal issue of their new base --- race. because it's become inappropriate to say so, they can't do it directly, so they do it via policy and political rhetoric.

white voters, who have also fled to the suburbs, consume a steady news diet of heinous inner-city crime (even when crime is way down). they are told that shiftless 'welfare queens' are sucking the government dry (a deliberate and coded use of racial imagery even though most people on welfare are white). public schools and city services, lacking funds because the tax base left abruptly when white folks fled to the suburbs, languish and fall apart (which is always attributed to 'incompetence' on the local level).

white voters push for more punitive laws under the erroneous idea that the 'urban centers' (wink, wink) are getting worse. when people point out the fact that city schools are failing, suburban voters tell the teachers to work harder and the lazy, shiftless parents to get more involved --- the whole time arguing that woefully inadequate funding for schools has *nothing* to do with while their failing.

Gov. Jim Florio, who saw the disparity in education spending between Camden, NJ and the state's more affluent townships, proposed getting rid of the practice of funding schools based on local wealth; he was voted out of office by THE LARGEST MARGIN IN THE HISTORY OF NEW JERSEY by voters who didn't want their tax dollars going to help 'those people.'

it's not Bull Connor spraying down black students with water hoses. but it's the continual ripping out of the rug from people who *are* working hard, or denying them what everyone else takes for granted.

Zora said 'yeah, the schools are shitty, but there are other places to learn.'

but why is it okay that the schools are shitty? why is it okay that the services are subpar and underfunded?

the general idea among the American public is: because *those people* are lazy and aren't trying to do better.

centuries of dehumanization and dehumanizing imagery just came to an abrupt halt 41 years ago? the attitudes that were the engine for those things just evaporated?

if you want people to stop littering (*rolls eyes*), you have to stop blocking access to life options.

no one's saying people shouldn't work hard ---- but most people who are poor in this country *are* working.

WE = Black Folks.

You're full of answers...
Explain this one without blaming Whitey.

you want him to explain, why another person does something that doesn't make sense, to your satisfaction.

the fact is, you want to blame them for their own situation, you don't need his explanation to do that, so asking for it is disingenuous.

you're not asking for "how do I help them help themselves"

thats bullshit.


FREE CHAI VANG!


Certified Grade A Coon - Inspector Abrock33

http://rjcc.stumbleupon.com - what I'm looking at

ownership breeds responsibility; communities where people own their property are invariably in better shape, regardless of average income (or race). furthermore, there are systemic reasons why poor black people don't/can't/haven't owned.

it follows then, that we shouldn't be worried about litter and worry about getting people in positions to own, and the litter will take care of itself.

the black poor, for being such a small part of the population, seem to get a hell of a lot of scrutiny from whites and blacks for the way they go about their daily lives, when there's no evidence that they have worse spending habits (because for some reason, this *always* comes up in these conversations) than anyone else.

i wonder why that is.

**************
rS

"...for me to care, i'd have to be f*cking you." -- my boy lee, to a girl raving about her new shoes.

"...and even then, i'd be faking it." -- me, to the same girl.

kudos to lazy, zora & burb (who is the nigga hating kang)


www.h8+er.com

Mzungu Aende Ulaya — Mwafrika Apate Uhuru

how is this about hating black people?

1) props to boodaah, burb, lazy, zora, bonamie, etc for actually making a DECENT non sex related post, i miss this

2) 1 side is saying, we arent the problem, they are the problem. they dont clean up after themselves, no respect for their surroundings, and ya'll should stop making excuses for them.

the other side says it is our responsibility to clean up after em, teach em, help them, not to forget abt them, and shame on you bougie niggas for doing so, stop pointing fingers @ start picking up litter.

BOTH SIDES ARE RIGHT.

forgive me if someone has allready said this. ya'll saw a beautiful mind, there is no right or wrong way, its all ways that will make the difference.

it is the poorer among us who engage in this self defeating behavior (ie: littering) that shit is wrong. it is EQUALLY as wrong to just point the finger @ em and say 'thats them' and think 'ok, now ya'll fix your own problems.' and it is WRONG to say 'our left behind brethren, allow us to help! by help we mean we're gonna come in and try to shame ya'll & educate ya'll in what WE think is right' and it is equally WRONG to be counter productive and attack the Burbs, Zoras, etc among us who think how they think.

i think more of 'us' should move BACK into the hoods, THAT to me (key word, to me) is the answer. thats the start off point.

that said...please continue this, im luvn it - mickey ds


www.h8+er.com

Mzungu Aende Ulaya — Mwafrika Apate Uhuru

you know, your solution is something nobody else has brought up in this post yet, and i think it's an interesting challenge. the street i grew up on was in an all black, struggling-class florida neighborhood. we lived in between a house where crack was sold, and an elderly couple. all the people on my street were older--my block had an eighty year old woman who tended her garden and swept and mopped her porch on the regular--and many owned their homes, although a significant number of folk rented. but, our block always looked nice, strangely enough. yeah, the city neglected us. but, folk planted flowers and kept gardens and helped some sick people among us mow our yards. and even the crack house didn't really have a whole lot of trash all over (basically, the woman who owned the house died and left it to her son who was a stone crackhead. he and his friends did whatever in the house and pretty much kept to themselves. once, when we were robbed, my dad went next door and got most of our stuff back. but, he's crazy and damn near 60, and unafraid of much so, i mean, what to make of that, lol?) in my neighborhood, folk took ownership--even renters like us. when shit went wrong, we called the city and we lamented, and we tried to do what we could--which is all you can really ask of any community, to do what you can, and try and advocate for yourself when you can't do it all (my parents still live there. i'm in school, but i go back occasionally).

the street behind us, though, didn't have as many long-term residents. folk moving in and out constantly didn't make for a feel of community (we lived there for about three years, and moved exactly one street over). i think what made 19th street so very different from 18th street was that the folk on 19th were long-time residents. Even though my parents still don't own our house, there's a sense of community that only comes with time.

i think it makes a difference to see folk that look like you doing well in your community. if everybody who has time, talents, and great ideas and opinions moves out, then it's not hard for the residents of any community to feel abandoned and, consequently, transient. i've been struggling with that for a while. maybe if we, as black folk and people of color, didn't run the hell out of the hood so fast (and even i'm guilty to a certain extent) it wouldn't seem so abandoned.

on a brighter note, though, i saw a sign in my neighborhood the other week advertising a neighborhood-wide demonstration against the local walgreens' pharmacy. bascially, the walgreens' trash and parking lot clutter was polluting the neighborhood, and the citizens have called for a boycott. it's really good to see folk taking back the hood, and not in some crazy neoliberal way that excuses city neglect and white flight, but in a way that involves all the people in the community, encourages feelings of responsibility and neighborliness, and speaks truth to power at the same time.

i just wanted to say that your suggestion really touched me, b/c there's always the notion of upward/outward mobility. often, we fail to question who's left behind when we're moving on up.

peas,

gramm

more of the 'us' with money, right?

That is a good idea...... establish our own sanitary management, our own water facilities or own businesses...

but I think some people have tried that... the only problem is, it takes more than one black person with money to do that because if he goes alone, then he's trapped like all the rest of the people in the neighborhood.... it's gonna take a lot of money.

the ghettos have traditionally been inner cities of major metropolitan areas, areas primed & ready for gentrification, move back to 3rd ward (the mueum district whathaveyou...even slightly calling it that makes me wanna vomit) you will realize great financial gains

if more men & women of means like yourself moved back to low income areas, and became positive role models for those around

I dont mean just picking up YOUR trash

i mean your house & surrounding environs are neat
you motivate your neighbors to write/call city hall when shit is not happening properly
you organize and coach the local little league/pop warner team

etc

the hood would be a shangri la

we cant seem to convince 'us' to even recognize 'us'

am i saying it'd be easy, absolutly not.
would it happen over nite, no.
<---- til its over. 1986. WE REMEMBER


Mzungu Aende Ulaya — Mwafrika Apate Uhuru

a daughter, i'm gonna move her to the safest neighborhood possible. wherever and what color it is. but to be real, if i work hard and handle my finances correctly, i'm gonna wanna live somewhere where i ain't gotta see trash every where.

i'll find a way to invest in it, but *shrug* i ain't gonna live in no trashy place.


always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

my mother, prolly like your parent(s) did her absolute utmost to constantly move us 'on up'. we went from bad hood, to semi hood, to decent suburb, to nice suburb, and thats how its supposed to be

that said, it makes enourmous (sp) financial sense to buy undervalued property, and sit on it, or refinish it which can be found in the 'hood'

there is much more growth possible in the inner city as opposed to the suburbs

and it also makes moral sense. youre Black, the issues that all Black ppl face all over the country are the same, regardless of income, and what you & burb & zora & others in this post seem to be saying is that 'blk ppl should solve their own problems. pick up their own trash, get their own yard together, etc.'

i agree

that 1 person on that 1 block who does so could have a positive influence on everyone else to do the same

like i said to burb earlier, would that be an easy thing to pull off, no
would it be overnight, no

but its defn doable
that said, no one can fault any parent for wanting to raise a family in the safest cleanest best area financially possible

<---- til its over. 1986. WE REMEMBER


Mzungu Aende Ulaya — Mwafrika Apate Uhuru

associate with poor black people is with poor whites as well.


whoever said the thing about them caring more about rims than about lawns? works the same way for a lot of poor whites.


i know kids who got brand new flip phones, fresh clothes, sneakers, etc. but whose parents can barely afford to keep the lights on.




Man cannot live on bread alone.

cuz 'they' (the city) will clean up.

U might wanna think about what you're posting the next time you see a group of people (usually due to great traffic violations) in orange vest collecting garbage, and simply take a good look at that neighborhoods residents and then do a double take of the folks in the orange vest.

I was JUST talking to my daddy about this...how we are SICK and TIRED of Black folks making excuses for EVERYTHING!

I'm not even gonna waste my energy repeating everything my brother just said...or that Bill Cosby has already said...

Get over it. If you take offense...YOU MUST BE ONE OF THE LAZY BASTIDS HE'S SPEAKIN ON! Get OFF ya tail and make thangs happen.

NIGGAS, STOP BEING NIGGAS!

i was under the main tailgate bridge (ya'll might know the area) in a makeshift parking lot. well this was a large tailgate that I stopped by...didn't know the people. anyway, at the edge of the parking lot was a large drop-off underneath the bridge that had piles upon piles of trash (some old and some obviously new) strewn everywhere. i was standing at the edge looking down at the mess and a guy walks by me and tossed a plate of food with silver foil covering it over onto one of the piles.

now being the public health person i am, i asked dude why did he just do that and why couldn't he have just walked over a few feet that way *pointing* and put it in the trash. his response (with a look on his face): "well it's already stuff down there so...*shrug*"

my point is this and this may or may not be the case, but if there's already a culture of littering going on in the area or community, then a lot of times folks will just follow suit instead of doing what they know is right and proper. now in defense of those living in apartment communities where this is happening, not everyone that lives there or in the area are litterbugs. in a lot of cases, the trash isn't collected on a consistent basis and the garbage gets over-ran thus the area gets strewn with garbage until it's collected.

**edit**

littering is not exclusive to our brethren only...please believe.

It is based on a lot of the ideas that people have brought up in the post. The experiment points out the extent to which the psychological aspect of despair can grip our communities and can be reflected in the poor conditions of some of our neighborhoods. Perhaps this can provide some insight into the issue and help people to realize that the complexity of the problem that can't be addressed with the simple answer that "Black folks are just lazy, trfilin', etc."

Excerpts:

Philip Zimbardo, a Stanford psychologist, reported in 1969 on some experiments testing the broken-window theory. He arranged to have an automobile without license plates parked with its hood up on a street in the Bronx and a comparable automobile on a street in Palo Alto, California. The car in the Bronx was attacked by "vandals" within ten minutes of its "abandonment." The first to arrive were a family -- father, mother, and young son -- who removed the radiator and battery. Within twenty-four hours, virtually everything of value had been removed. Then random destruction began -- windows were smashed, parts torn off, upholstery ripped. Children began to use the car as a playground.

Most of the adult "vandals" were well dressed, apparently clean-cut whites. The car in Palo Alto sat untouched for more than a week. Then Zimbardo smashed part of it with a sledgehammer. Soon, passersby were joining in. Within a few hours, the car had been turned upside down and utterly destroyed. Again, the 'vandals" appeared to be primarily respectable whites.

Untended property becomes fair game for people out for fun or plunder, and even for people who ordinarily would not dream of doing such things and who probably consider themselves law-abiding.
Because of the nature of community life in the Bronx -- its anonymity, the frequency with which cars are abandoned and things are stolen or broken, the past experience of "no one caring" -- vandalism begins much more quickly than it does in staid Palo Alto, where people have come to believe that private possessions are cared for, and that mischievous behavior is costly.

But vandalism can occur anywhere once communal barriers -- the sense of mutual regard and the obligations of civility -- are lowered by actions that seem to signal that "no one cares."

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/_atlantic_monthly-broken_windows.pdf

The bottom line is that if you own something you are more invested in the way it looks. But, there is something to be said for the influence the environment is going to have on your behavior. For example, if you live in an apartment where you're paying top dollar or maybe even just paying an average amount and the management puts a lot of effort into keeping the building clean, responds to residents' requests etc. you are going to think twice about littering if for no other reason than your litter is going to stand out. HOWEVER, if you live in a building or neighborhood where graffiti is all over the buildings, it takes an act of God to get the property manager to come fix anything in your apartment etc. you aren't going to feel bad about littering or even worse stealing, selling drugs whatever. It takes people who are willing to repaint graffiti every single day, clean up other people's litter every single day etc to change the code of conduct in a neighborhood. Those people tend to be invested in their neighborhoods, not on section 8 or renting a college pad.

^^^^^this was written by wifey, aproud card carrying member of the talented 10th^^^^^^^

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The hood = densely populated area. There's people comin and goin all the time, and unless you have a 24/7 janitorial service working, its gon be the way it is. It could be straightened up a lil better, but the hood is active homie, its not the fine china that you keep in the cabinet until the holidays come around. The hood aint even all like you say it is, at least not here....we got a few nice clean areas that are in the hood, you may have just seen the wrong thing at the wrong time.

You mention other neighborhoods aint like that....well take a closer look at those neighborhoods. In the suburbs people don't do shit. They go to work, come home, and go sit in the house for the most part. They come out to mow the grass or do lil housework, but they aint outside chillin on the front porch or hangin out on the corner, cuz that's not what they do....its easy to keep the streets clean in those neighborhoods cuz aint nobody really usin em.

About the angry housekeepers: It's angry muhfuckas at every job (shit, look at this board...its cats of all races on here, and all of em are pissed off about somethin), you just happen to work somewhere where its mostly black people. It's a lot of white folx at my job, and they aint no less rude than anybody else...(This has already been said tho)

For a lot of other people in this post, Treach summed it up the best:

"If you aint never been to the ghetto, don't ever come to the ghetto, cuz you wouldn't understand the ghetto, so stay the fuck outta the ghetto."

that local government and other entities have in accelerating the decline of neighborhoods, which is a point that some of you have eloquently touched on already.

For example, my first apartment was in a very nice area, the properties were well-landscaped, it was in a gated community and the management was prompt about addressing the residents' concerns. The next year, the apartment opened up some units to people with section 8 vouchers. There was an automatic shift in attitudes NOT by the new residents, but by the management company itself. It refused to respond to residents' repairs (sometimes ignoring them completely), the beautiful landscaping was replaced by overgrown weeds, the gate languished in a state of disrepair, trash piled up outside and the list goes on....

The residents were NOT responsible for the state of affairs. My point is, when the demographics of the area changed, the management company's attitude shifted toward the residents. It held preconceived notions about the new residents and by its inaction, caused this notion to transform into reality. The city also contributed to the problem by refusing to send code enforcement to the community, when it was a common sight the year before.

We should expect the best from our community, but let's look at the whole problem before being too hasty to place the blame solely on our people. It's just not fair.

they also tend to underestimate or misunderstand institutional racism, which is not some malevolent, wife-beating bigot who actively and vehemently hates black people...

it's much more insidious. it all takes place in people's heads we know that people with "black-sounding names" are 50% less likely to be called back for job interviews, even if they have the exact same qualifications as those without. we also know that black people without criminal records are less likely to be offered jobs than white people *with* criminal convictions.

white flight? black folks moved into cities, white folks moved to the suburbs and took their tax revenue with them; some cities have never recovered.

overreporting of crime? crime has been dropping across the country for more than a decade, but news coverage of violent crime has gone up.

what you then have is a jumpy white electorate who turns on the news and see out of control inner-cities and mayhem, even though that hasn't been true for more some time. they see litter (!) and make all kinds of value judgments about the people who would live in such conditions (surely they must be lazy and irresponsible!) even though some of that is common sense (people don't walk on sidewalks in the suburbs; they drive) and a lot of that is economic (lack of ownership).

and litter and perceived boom in crime becomes the imagery they associate with poor blacks.

and again, Americans associate litter and (imaginary) crime with low-income blacks, and make judgments about the characters of the people who would *live* in such a manner.

I have a personal experience with this:

>white flight? black folks moved into cities, white folks moved
>to the suburbs and took their tax revenue with them; some
>cities have never recovered.

When I was younger, my family and I moved a neighborhood where we were the only people of color on the block. As soon as we moved in, the "for sale" sign went up across the street and our white neighbors panicked (because you know "us negros" drive down the property value). They sold their house for 25%(!) below its market value which in turn caused the surrounding houses to suffer a depreciation in value. All because they were scared that we were going to come into "their" neighborhood with our loud rap music, rims spinning and throw our empty 40 bottles into the yard.

True, we don't have the "No Colored" signs and hoses drawn on us like the previous generation did, but the prejudice that we encounter today (a lot coming from our own people, unfortunately) is just as toxic--it's just in a more subtle form.

Gladwell says in one chapter that whenever black people comprise a certain percentage of a local population (i think it was in the low teens, but the exact number escapes me), white families began selling their property.

he said that percentage at which a neighborhood 'tips' is more or less the same in almost every case.

interesting stuff.

but it's on my "to read" list. I'm not at all surprised by his findings if that's the case. I've seen the phenomenon occur in my city numerous times.

Inside of the house is dirty why shouldn't the rest of the place be dirty. I mean the trash is all going to the same place. EARTH right so what. Why ya'll outsiders all ways be hatin. You move the community and now it isn't good enough. I LIKE IT DIRTA. making me feel comfortable. Shi.. We aint dity we are cluttered. we have a organized mess. Forget all of you

y'all really be on some other shit.

there's at least two parts to every social problem: internal + external.

internal:

a) some muhfuckas are just trife. that's a fact of life. there's a trife component to all populations

b) some muhfuckas simply have never been given an education or values, or at least not in the way that they would buy in to it.

external:

a) politics, economics and a buncha other ics and isms concentrate poverty and social dysfunction. one trife muhfucka on the block can either be shamed into not being so trife, or at the very least, people will drive by and say, that's a nice block except for that fucked up house.

b) where you live and who you are and all that DOES play a part in how your community receives services, including those that are supplemental or enable your community to take care of itself.

i. if there is no bulk trash pickup, the vacant lot down the block, or the little fucked up woods behind the hood is better than your front yard for the mattress to go to. i have had to call repeatedly for my city to come pick up bulk trash because i didn't want my crib looking fucked up, and also because the trash collectors be taking shorts but the folks that wanna give out fines be quick to swing by. if there were no fine and i was never socialized to see that it made a difference how the outside of the crib looked, shit could have very easily sat there for weeks.

ii. why cut my grass if my neighbors got wild kingdom and the common areas NEVER get taken care of? there is a tipping point at which people just stop giving a fuck. in some neighborhoods it be one or two families where they keep things up, but eventually they die off and they are replaced by folks who come in, take a look around, and do like everybody else.


the question that your post begs is "why SHOULD i?" (ie, take care of my property, rental or otherwise). give muhfuckas a good answer and, if need be, the assistance to jumpstart that shit, and they just might catch on.

driving by and saying "that's fucked up" ain't helping. they know that.

for delf? i got in trouble once in college and had to wake up at 6am (this a ninja that used to sleep through 2:30pm brunch on weekends) and clean up trash. predominantly WHITE university, although the pop was so high there was enough black folks to rival an hbcu.

i was PISSED at folks that would drop shit 2 feet away from the trash cans. i do NOT litter, and don't tolerate that shit from my kids. or the neighbors kids, wherever they at, and am quick to make somebody pick up some shit.

so its a combo of common sense PLUS personal experience that makes me anti-litter. that had nothing to do with all the white kids i saw at college who made all kindsa messes for no reason, on some 'no home trainin shit'. teammates in football whose dorms were so nasty that one time the black cleaning crew (they prolly all mexican now) REFUSED to go in there. these mofoes never cleaned the bathroom all semester, would go out drinking, come in and throw up all over the place and leave it there -- i went to one particular time and was like, wtf is wrong with y'all (and yes i explained that it was nasty and it was fucked up for them to think the housekeepers were responsible for this).

point is, there's a lot of reasons why shit is fucked up. i'm not feeling this approach to it, though.








peace & blessings,

x.

sigless for the summer, y'all.

Now, I'm told that back in the day... 1950s, 1960s, a good deal of majority Black areas in Philly DID indeed stay rather clean.

It seems that at some point during the late 60s/70s, people just stopped caring.

What made that pride vanish?

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

on both sides of the issue, many of you make me ashamed to be black

always get a test: http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2002/000012.html
41.7% of the GD moderation staff are asses that register about 95% of the complaints.

Johnson

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