https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1224759600798425090

interesting that she referred to the woman in colorado as 'the victim' despite the fact she refused to testify and the criminal case was dismissed. seems like 'accuser' or 'alleged victim' would be more responsible as a journalist.

serious question (because i might have honestly missed it) but did gayle and/or oprah go hard at harvey weinstein? oprah did a dedicated special about the michael jackson doc (which was on an entirely different network) and she produced the russell simmons doc. oprah had actual friends raped/abused by harvey weinstein and he has a much longer/wider track record of this behavior. seems like something she would wanna jump all over.

King is basically trying to cross-examine Leslie and adjudicate this at a time when she knows she's grieving the loss of a close friend. And referring to the accuser as a "victim" is journalistic malpractice.

Yes - of course there's a conversation to be had about the Colorado incident - and if you look into the details - it is a troubling case and worthy of a larger conversation.

But to your point - I'd certainly like to see King and major media outlets grilling associates of Epstein and Weinstein with the same energy and intensity. Yet we don't see that.


-->

act like its their 'duty' to bring up uncomfortable/inconvenient parts of peoples lives when its not even relevant to the main conversation. even immediately after they die.

you could be there talking about your grandfather who was a famous singer in the 70s and just passed. and theyll bring up 40 yr old domestic violence accusations from his 1st wife.

lisa leslie lost a friend. imagine running up in someones house while their friends are gathered around mourning their death. and going 'hey but we gotta talk about that time he robbed that store on sycamore'.

its ok to be human and let people grieve for a minute. everything aint worth the headline.

shit is pretty heartless when you think about it.

have gone in on Oprah over the Weinstein thing.

Mo'Nique too-

https://www.thedailybeast.com/monique-slams-oprah-winfrey-over-sundance-russell-simmons-doc-rekindles-old-feud


They are right, seems like a pattern to me.

https://youtu.be/ST7vUwTtKso

50 women!

‘lets not dwell on harvey weinstein...’

It's a tactless way to handle somebody who is grieving, but journalism ethics ain't the Hippocratic Oath to do no harm.

Journalism ethics is more about minimizing harm, and Gayle likely feels she's minimizing harm by treating the assault charges as credible and keeping the spotlight on them.

interviewers damn sure dont grill their family and friends on the dark parts of their political record...much less their personal life.

seems like they do have some selective sense of decency/decorum.

>interviewers damn sure dont grill their family and friends on
>the dark parts of their political record...much less their
>personal life.
>
>seems like they do have some selective sense of
>decency/decorum.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

cuz i know somma yall would probably piss me off.

d

go get the body from the morgue the other day. and its been only a week and 3 days since his passing.

notice how Gayle tells Lisa to her face that she wouldnt see it, after asking her if it is complicated. why the phuck would you ask her that question and strategically try to pin her in a corner when Lisa is telling her about her interactions w/ Kobe....not Kobe, Lisa and the "victim" who REFUSED to testify.

>notice how Gayle tells Lisa to her face that she wouldnt see
>it, after asking her if it is complicated

If she knows Lisa would have no insight on this aspect of Kobe's behavior, asking her about it does nothing to illuminate the issue.

>>notice how Gayle tells Lisa to her face that she wouldnt
>see
>>it, after asking her if it is complicated
>
>If she knows Lisa would have no insight on this aspect of
>Kobe's behavior, asking her about it does nothing to
>illuminate the issue.

When she said she has other NBA player friends who *do* act like that in public.

a coward saying "why didnt yall interview him years ago when he was here."

everybody called Monique crazy, but she was right.

>If she knows Lisa would have no insight on this aspect of
>Kobe's behavior, asking her about it does nothing to
>illuminate the issue.

i think "then why the fuck are you even asking me?" would have been completely warranted. Good on Leslie for keeping it polite.

>notice how Gayle tells Lisa to her face that she wouldnt see
>it, after asking her if it is complicated.

‘thanks for answering my question but your experience isnt credible because you cant say for certain that it did or didnt happen when you werent around’

https://twitter.com/search?q=Gayle&src=trend_click

Leslie handled this well.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/wrestling-in-with-kobe-bryants-forgotten-apology/


And I don't post that to make a case for Kobe being a terrible person or unworthy of our grief. I have been grieving his death, and more deeply grieving the death of Gigi. But I don't believe in the deification of people when they die. We have to deal with their complexities.
I don't think it's necessary or helpful to ask these questions of someone who was close to him, who is grieving him on that level, but I also don't think those questions get wiped away because someone dies.

all i see is the part where it says the accusers ‘defense lawyer’ insisted kobe make that statement as a price of freedom (condition to the civil case settlement?)

‘accusers defense lawyer’ sounds kinda inaccurate. i dont think she was charged or countersued.

Wrestling With Kobe Bryant’s Forgotten Apology
After being cleared of rape charges in 2003, the basketball star conceded that the absence of consent may have occurred. Here’s why that matters.
By Dave ZirinTwitter
April 19, 2016


Kobe Bryant ended his Hall of Fame NBA career in legendary fashion with 60 points on an astounding 50 shots last Wednesday in front of a star-studded hometown crowd. It was just the 17th victory of the season for the Los Angeles Lakers, but that didn’t stop Hollywood and the sports world from coming together to burnish a basketball icon.

As is always the way in these Internet days, all of this hegemonic hagiography was accompanied by counter-takes at the margins. Examinations of Kobe’s high-volume shooting style or critiques of the way he drove away teammates like Shaquille O’Neal and Dwight Howard were there for those who wanted to find them.

The piece that grabbed a hold of me however—and I just can’t get it out of my head—was “The Legacy of the Kobe Bryant Rape Case,” by Lindsay Gibbs. It looked at the rape charges levied against Bryant in Eagle County, Colorado, back in 2003, and the ramifications of his lawyers’ scorched-earth approach toward rape survivors. This criminal case never went to trial, of course, after Bryant’s alleged victim refused to cooperate, and any civil case that could have arisen was settled out of court. It’s a common story when the wealthy and powerful are accused of sexual assault.

But then there was Kobe Bryant’s apology. I had not read his statement in 13 years, and it’s a stunning artifact. After years of reporting on Steubenville, the Notre Dame/Lizzy Seeberg case, Ben Roethlisberger, Patrick Kane, and so many more of these all-too-frequent stories where sports meets sexual assault, it left me wide-eyed, with more questions than answers.

Before reading, please keep in mind that the apology was made after the case was dismissed, and there is no evidence that Bryant was compelled to make this as part of the civil settlement of the case.

It reads:

First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colorado. I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.

Viewed through a 2016 lens, such an apology is breathtaking. It is impossible to even imagine a Ben Roethlisberger or a Jameis Winston or any high-profile athlete accused of rape issuing a similar statement. The handbook today says to deny everything until your high-priced lawyers and Internet armies bury your alleged victim. Then, treat the entire incident like just another obstacle to overcome on the road to greatness. Yet in 2003 Bryant essentially admitted that, while he does not believe a rape occurred… a rape may in fact have occurred.

We will never know if Bryant released this statement out of guilt, some sort of attempt at image rehabilitation, or a genuine sense of trying to achieve some kind of atonement. But whatever his motivation, does such an apology for what “may” have happened have value to people trying to combat sexual assault?

I spoke with Neil Irvin, director of the organization Men Can Stop Rape, about Bryant’s apology. He said,

Kobe is the only accused individual who I’ve ever seen provide an apology in writing in my 16 years of doing rape prevention work. I read it and it fits with what I know about rape: survivors don’t lie. I know we’ve been taught to believe they do but that’s a story which only serves to empower rapists. Kobe’s apology actually serves to push against the idea that survivors lie. He’s saying the opposite. The question I’m left with, is how do you honor Kobe’s statement and what appears to be his subsequent growth, without ignoring there was a survivor who also has to overcome the violence that Kobe admits to. I also know that for me—an African American man—there is something about the fact that Kobe was facing a life sentence and knowing the way rape charges have historically been used against black men…that is hard to shut out. But that also makes his desire to make amends, to apologize, matter even more to me. It helps our work at Men Can Stop Rape even if we don’t know whether Kobe’s apology was for his corporate image or the survivor… or both.

I also spoke with Jessica Luther, author of the forthcoming book, Unsportsmanlike Conduct: College Football and the politics of Rape. Like me, Luther had not considered Kobe’s apology in 13 years. “Alone, it’s good,” she said.

In a culture that fails to teach consent, it’s possible that there are plenty of cases where the two people involved could come away with different readings. For Bryant to say this, well, it’s as close to an admission of guilt as you can get without admitting guilt. In context, it’s harder for me because of how his defense team (and the system at large) trashed her and made her feel unsafe. This seems like the absolute least that should have happened in response to that: saying she sincerely believes she did not consent that night. Despite Bryant’s statement, there are still plenty of people who think this woman lied in order to get famous/wealthy/whatever. But we should remember always that the lasting impact of this case is not what Bryant said afterward: it’s how the case contributed to our ideas about people who report sexual violence.

That last point, about “how the case contributed to our ideas about people who report sexual violence,” is why the forgotten apology is so important. All week on social media, I was deluged with people telling me that Bryant’s alleged victim was a liar, a whore, or a con artist. These threat-mongers justified their ugliness by saying “Kobe didn’t do anything.” But even Kobe admitted that he did do something. That’s why it matters.

Ignoring Kobe’s apology also means we can’t reckon with who he is: someone who apologized for committing an act of violence against a woman and 13 years later was fêted by liberal Los Angeles as a hero. That sends its own kind of message. The message the sports media and Lakers faithful sent was that Kobe’s cinematic journey matters more than anyone who may have been damaged along the way. Even in liberal Hollywood, rape survivors are, at most, supporting characters, and often left on the cutting room floor.

***UPDATE, 1/28/2020: In this piece from 2016, I reported that Kobe’s apology was made from his own volition. That is what I heard from a source in 2016. Today, ESPN quoted the accuser’s defense lawyer as saying that her client “insisted on that statement as a price of freedom.” I want to make sure that this perspective is there as well when people judge the merits of this apology.

was consensual?

If that isn’t deserving of calling her the “victim”, I don’t know what is.

Sounds like since Kobe himself basically acknowledged that she was the victim in all of these then Gayle calling her that is fair game.

As is it fair game to ask Lisa about it.

I know she’s grieving and is sad to have lost her friend and maybe she wasn’t event expecting to get a question like that but eh it was part of his public legacy so I don’t think it was out of bounds for Gayle to touch on it, in a respectful way, which I feel that she did.

Also Oprah pulled out of producing the Russell doc so that’s not a fair point.

'Although I truly believe this encounter between us was
consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this
incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery,
listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now
understand how she feels that she did not consent to this
encounter.'

this was around the time that the country was grappling with what 'consent' meant and how it should be requested/granted/concurred with.

sounds to me like kobe saying he believed she consented (nonverbally, passively, etc). but that she didnt explicitly agree to it (and he didnt explicitly request it). and he could see how she would feel differently.

prolly a clumsy explanation on my part but the statement comes off as some careful legalese/pr attempt to cover a few (maybe contradictory) bases.

do you think kobe believed she was a rape victim? or a victim in general (press, emotional pain, etc). do you think gayle was referring specifically to being a victim of the alleged crime?


>Also Oprah pulled out of producing the Russell doc so that’s
>not a fair point.

the doc is finished. she pulled her name off it only because she felt it needed *more* work to portray the full scope of what the accusers went through (her claim). shes still supporting it (just not credited anymore).

the point still stands tho. shes clearly shown more ambition in holding mj and uncle rush accountable than she has weinstein.

(he's on trial...now. he's being held accountable. it's happening.)

before you can talk about someone else?

why is he the name that comes up?

what dumbass made this rule? Because I have questions.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

...that is, within the context of your question.

>was consensual?
>
>If that isn’t deserving of calling her the “victim”, I
>don’t know what is.

It's deserving of calling her someone who gave Kobe a price tag for his freedom.

Per her own lawyer, she “insisted on that statement as a price of freedom.”

So it was a requirement, a hoop to jump through, for him to be able to get on with his life.

There's nothing about this to indicate guilt. You infer guilt on your own, but that's not present in the statement, nor the reason the statement was made.

>Sounds like since Kobe himself basically acknowledged that she
>was the victim in all of these then Gayle calling her that is
>fair game.

there's a reason you said "sounds like" and "basically", and not "actually", because the actuality doesn't jive with the "basic" interpretation.

Again: “insisted on that statement as a price of freedom.”

>As is it fair game to ask Lisa about it.

No, it's not at all fair game to put that burden on her, and certainly not right now.

>I know she’s grieving and is sad to have lost her friend and
>maybe she wasn’t event expecting to get a question like that

…which is why it's really not at all fair game to press her on that.

What does Lisa have to do with Colorado? Why ask her if its complicated to grieve or celebrate someone accused of doing something terrible, when all Lisa can offer is her own perspective on who her friend was. A perspective Gayle dismisses as meaningless.

in that case why put any of this on Lisa Leslie?

it's gotcha bs

Because if that were the case, then we would really have to relitigate the whole thing and that involves going into the facts about the accuser. Facts like:

1. The accuser was on medication for schizophrenia who had tried to commit suicide twice six months prior to the incident which speaks to her credibility as a witness.

2. Or that she admitted to changing her story to make her more believable to the police.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7jYN-q07uzM/XjCnWqVm_iI/AAAAAAADIVQ/jPV7nxEDhOkujtVBlfjuBHjXWvgFTYqQACK8BGAsYHg/s0/2020-01-28.png

3. Or that a witness claimed that the accuser was bragging about Kobe's johnson at a party after the incident.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JyLtR14Kcyk/XjG7DHmoYlI/AAAAAAADIWI/hUGqgC1u5GETHLAj8Q0Cpvbn4W37mdsUACK8BGAsYHg/s0/2020-01-29.png

4. Or that she had sex with someone else before going to the police about Kobe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/us/papers-reveal-new-details-in-kobe-bryant-rape-case.html

Now of course, I think it's terrible to dredge up all this stuff about an accuser decades after she agreed to settle the matter and I don't think any one of these items I mention prove that she lied, but if anyone who says Kobe's whole story should be told, these parts of the story should be told and discuss.

We aren't talking about some crime that was buried and gone unacknowledged. This was something that was discussed extensively in the media, charges were brought, and the details came to light. Nowhere are we seeing that the accuser wants to relitigate this matter. The thing about it that drives me a little crazy is that if you take Kobe's apology at face value, then its clear he knows he didn't something wrong (even though the two of them could have walked away from the situation with two different takes on what just happened). We don't know whether this apology, and the settlement payments, were enough to satisify the accuser and whether drudging this all up is something that she would even want.

Also, you know a factoid that I thought speaks to Kobe's frame of mind (and is also very Kobe like), is the comment he made to police during the investigation when he told them "Do the best invesitation that you have ever done in your career please"

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xvCP4zabyv4/XjFzLqjfxEI/AAAAAAADIVk/MbaJcokEtIctZUnpnkw3qT7yUK4Idc5LwCK8BGAsYHg/s0/2020-01-29.jpg






**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Also, you know a factoid that I thought speaks to Kobe's frame
>of mind (and is also very Kobe like), is the comment he made
>to police during the investigation when he told them "Do the
>best invesitation that you have ever done in your career
>please"
>
>https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xvCP4zabyv4/XjFzLqjfxEI/AAAAAAADIVk/MbaJcokEtIctZUnpnkw3qT7yUK4Idc5LwCK8BGAsYHg/s0/2020-01-29.jpg

thats how i interpreted that.

That's all you need to know when a big star says it.

Glad he didn't pay any settlement or have to read a note to the press.

his letter of apology came between the criminal and civil trials.

there's no real reason to believe it was coerced.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2004/09/03/a-cases-disagreeable-conclusion/d20bac4c-921e-4ad1-9837-adb9b699ee22/
-----
Bryant's lawyers told ESPN that the apology was a condition of the woman, who "insisted on that statement as a price of freedom." Still, a federal civil lawsuit seeking "unspecified damages," filed by the woman Aug. 10, is pending.
-----

a pretty pivotal detail that i didnt even know about until dude up top posted that thenation article.

the apology does comes off really tightropey. trying to satisfy two opposing objectives.

had you not read it?

That was perhaps the one most knowable fact in this whole thing, and you didn't know it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

"a pretty pivotal detail that i didnt even know about until dude up top posted that thenation article."

did I misread?

because if you'd read the letter you'd have known

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

that she pushed him to write it ('as a price of freedom').

>She has
agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil
case.

glad I could help!

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

you know damn well that aint the same as him revealing she conditioned the dismissal on a public apology letter.

just that anything said in the letter wouldnt be used as evidence in the civil suit.

if her conditional insistence on the public apology was so obvious and widely known from the apology itself...why did the reporter from thenation need to update/clarify it in the story after kobes lawyer revealed it later?

exactly.

that you didn't know is your own issue to wrangle with.


that you don't want to answer the question of why you think he would've made a statement like that in the absence of the accuser wanting him to....is also your own issue to wrangle with.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

you said that you didn't know a fact about the statement that, according to the writer *was reported on ESPN*

that's your version of the events. I didn't try anything.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

They kinda have to, to make it seem as far from an admission of guilt as possible.

Fact is, we don't know, because a trial never took place, and we have don't have a more thorough case to examine.

It also means that there's not a whole lot of merit to hard at him with certainty that he's guilty.

didn't we just all watch the aaron hernandez documentary about two murder trials which leave many facts open to interpretation and entirely unknown?


the idea that if we had a trial and a verdict we'd know the truth in an acceptable way doesn't hold up.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>didn't we just all watch the aaron hernandez documentary
>about two murder trials which leave many facts open to
>interpretation and entirely unknown?
>
>
>the idea that if we had a trial and a verdict we'd know the
>truth in an acceptable way doesn't hold up.
>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

and be just as thin as when they were initially reported

yes, maybe we'd know more. I very much doubt anyone would feel like we would know enough.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

should be considered when it comes to trying to determine whose version of the story is more credible. It's not dispositive but it is relevant.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I think those people only want to tell the part where Kobe had an allegation and wrote an apology.

They do not at all consider that they may be dredging up an open wound for the alleged victim, nor do they give half a fuck about any element of the story that's inconvenient to anything less then characterizing him as a rapist.

There's some reasonable doubt here, and there's no telling what a trial would have done to illuminate us to either side of the case.

You can just see how a 26-year-old Cocky and Arrogant Kobe would have never have thought that a girl didn't want to have sex with him.

At the same time, I think that if Kobe had any understanding that he could have been perceived as coercing the girl into doing something she didn't want to do, he would have backed the fcuk off.

But Kobe is given no benefit of the doubt by some it it directly relates to him being a black man. Because he is a black man, despite living a very public life and having no record of doing this before or after the incident in his entire life, his version of the story has no weight when going against a white woman who we literally know nothing about. A story like this only lives on when it involves a black man.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

"I think it's terrible to dredge up all this stuff about an accuser decades after she agreed to settle the matter "


no you don't, because if you did, you wouldn't do it.

it's an option, and you literally always choose this particular option because you like and enjoy doing it.

if someone accuses someone of sexual assault, you want to be the person to dig through the accusers life and decide if you think they're believable.

I understand that you are that kind of person.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

in the kitchen?

I want it handy when this cat tries to act like he isn't easily the person here who has treated women here the worst of anyone still around these days.

You are in no position to lecture anyone.

This is all you will get out of me this post. Say something stupid and asinine back and let's call it a day.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I can stand by anything I've ever done or said because I have integrity.


You can't, because you're a bullshit person and everyone knows it.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

All you do here is harass people but you are the one with integrity?

You are delusional and not making any sense at this point.



>I can stand by anything I've ever done or said because I have
>integrity.


You can stand behind calling her a bitch and telling her to get back in the kitchen? That's what integrity looks like to you? Explain how that works.


>
>
>You can't, because you're a bullshit person and everyone knows
>it.


I can't what? You aren't even making sense here. What you can't find is any post of me calling a woman outside her name.

Grow up child.


>
>
>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and you try to forget how no one cares about your pretending to be offended on someone else's behalf.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

you don't have any, and never will.

remember when you said you weren't going to reply and then you did?

no integrity, no fucking will behind your words.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

case but weren’t ass juicy of a headline as “KOBE ACCUSED OF RAPE!” so they weren’t as widely reported but inconsistencies in her story would’ve made here case tough to prove in a criminal court and that’s why the initial charges were dropped.

who's definitely qualified to talk about when and why cases are dropped

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Folks are just pointing out that Oprah/Gayle had different approaches/views with regards Weinstein, Rose, etc...and the obvious difference between them and Kobe or even MJ.

I haven't seen this movie before.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

idk what gayle king asks people, and I don't know why someone would show me an interview by her that they don't like.

shit's weird.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Kirk Douglas is dead. so if you have a soapbox to get on regarding how quickly we can bring up sexual assault accusations after a celebrity death then your test case has arrived.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I think it’s a valid question

It is part of his legacy

But I’m taking a different angle for the cancel culture

Imagine if we didn’t get a post ‘03 Kobe

Mamba mentality doesn’t become a thing

We don’t get to see him evolve into the father and mentor he bacame, etc...

I actually respect him for facing the charges and becoming a better man

No problem with the question

But I feel like people get defensive

It’s a nothingburger of a subject and the pro-Kobe contingent should be better equipped to explain how their relationship overcame the adversity

IMO

Gayle: but you don’t know...

Well why the fuck are you asking her if she doesn’t know?

Again, it's not like there is this story that never came to light that they are trying to expose. Everyone knows the story and still mourn him and it's driving a certain type of person (mostly white women) crazy.

Reminding folks what happened every time someone brings up his name won't make people mourn the loss any less...just makes you look like an ahole.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and Mike actually said "i really wished I raped the bitch".

His comment after the fact doesn't have any bearing on whether or not he did it, and there's definitely room for doubt that he did.

Mamba mentality was detrimental in those early years

Destructive to his team, teammates and personal life

The rape charge feels like a pivotal moment...toward the man he became

There’s nothing to defend...but I feel like there are some admissions on who he was in those early years.

Acknowledging a woman's wellbeing shouldn't be compromised to make a man a better person. That being said, We all know Kobe was an arrogant, cocky sumabitch who wouldn't even listen to his own parents and I can see how that translated into sexual situations.

I feel like that was the first time he was forced to look at himself that critically and put himself into someone elses shoes and he became a better person %1000. So much so, I can't say I hated him the way I did from back in the day.

I don't think heroes need to be perfect, but they definitely need to grow and try to be a better person.


>Mamba mentality was detrimental in those early years
>
>Destructive to his team, teammates and personal life
>
>The rape charge feels like a pivotal moment...toward the man
>he became
>
>There’s nothing to defend...but I feel like there are some
>admissions on who he was in those early years.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

let him rest dawg

>the pro-Kobe
>contingent should be better equipped to explain how their
>relationship overcame the adversity

Kobe is probably my favorite athlete.

If not my very favorite, he’s on a short list (Magic, Serena).

I also believe Kobe raped that woman in Colorado and was never really held to account for it.

I’ll never be able to settle the argument I have in my head about the man and I don’t think I should.

she never asked Kobe, nor his male teammates this when he was alive
so putting Lisa up there to answer for that sort of thing as a woman is extremely funnystyle. what makes it even more funny style is going further with the "but you weren't there" bullshit AFTER she gave her answer...

and then backtracking to say "CBS made her do it" after the backlash...

bullshit.

I believe that...

but the “but you weren’t there” is the problem.

as much as possible and consider him as a friend.
the same tv station that "warped" and "took every thing out of context", yet she wont hand in her resignation.

they did a website prone talking point with no context and without her knowledge

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/02/05/kobe-bryant-gayle-king-sparks-outrage-questions-rape-charge/4672566002/

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B8OJfE7Jzri/?

it was to generate interest/views/clicks for the content.

mission accomplished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBQmeLCGcG8

it isnt easy to be put in that situation on the spot and still remain poised.

question at some point so she was semi-prepared.

>it isnt easy to be put in that situation on the spot and
>still remain poised.

she works for CBS. you think they "gotcha'd" her?


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

stuff explain the details.

"Western" media has been on a smear campaign of Black folks since the invention of the printing press.

She says Gayle is now feeling very much attacked. (Hmm, can't imagine what Kobe went though during the accusations)

She says Gayle hasn't slept for two days (Hmm...can't imagine what Kobe's family has been going though since the death of he and his daughter)

She calling what's happening to Gayle as "Misogynistic Vitriol" (Again, hmmm......can't imagine what Kobe went though with the accusations)

I don't condone that death threat bullshit. It's cowardly and stupid. But she chose to walk though that same door of the salacious exploitations of another black man that Oprah has made her fortune from. So forgive me for not having much empathy for her.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/entertainment/oprah-winfrey-gayle-king-kobe-bryant/index.html

Talking about her best friend's recent troubles got Oprah Winfrey emotional on Friday.

Winfrey started choking up during an appearance on "Today" with Hoda Kotb and Jenna Bush Hager while talking about the backlash against her BFF, Gayle King, over a recent interview.

"She is not doing well," Winfrey said as she teared up. "She is not doing well because she now has death threats and has to now travel with security. She is feeling very much attacked."

King has been majorly criticized for asking former basketball player Lisa Leslie about rape allegations made against the late NBA star Kobe Bryant.

Bryant and his 13-year-old daughter Gianna were part of a group of nine people who were killed last month in a helicopter crash in Calabasas, California.

On Thursday, King expressed anger at her "CBS This Morning" bosses for releasing what she felt was a "salacious" and "out of context" clip of her interview with Leslie.

Winfrey backed up her best friend of several decades on Friday.
"She's not doing well and feels that she was put in a really terrible position," Winfrey said. "Because that interview had already ran and in the context of the interview, everyone seemed fine, including Lisa Leslie."

Winfrey said she understands why people are upset based on the clip, but added that King "hasn't slept in two days."

"Anybody can criticize anything, but the misogynistic vitriol to the point where it is dangerous to be in the streets alone ..." Winfrey said, trailing off. "Because it's not just the people who are attacking. It's the other people who feel like they can take that message and do whatever they want."

Too bad, she's getting what she deserves.

Oprah is next.

Both of them know exactly what their doing and as soon as it backfires, they cry wolf. Nope, both of them can kick rocks.

>Too bad, she's getting what she deserves.

www.Tupreme.com

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Nah that's going too far.

>Too bad, she's getting what she deserves.
>
>Oprah is next.
>
>Both of them know exactly what their doing and as soon as it
>backfires, they cry wolf. Nope, both of them can kick rocks.

carry on tho.

https://twitter.com/HodaAndJenna/status/1225802679630356481

maybe im tripping but it legit looked like oprah tried to muster up tears then just gave tf up.

....didn't the words come out of her mouth?

the "lets destroy a person's life because they said something i didn't like" mindset of some people.

i know it's small but vocal groups but it's still alot of fucking people

99.9% percent of these people would never look her (or anyone for that matter) in the eye and say the kind of vile shit they feel safe saying online.

someone says one thing that they don't like and then they hate their guts forever, and will still complain about that person even when they do something good.

because I'm sure it makes them feel better to know that you're typing about all the empathy you don't have about someone who did an interview you didn't watch

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Like spend a few weeks just getting back to their roots. These folks have made their careers of translating the black experience to wider audiences but they've all been off their game lately.


BTW,I wonder who is that person doing that well now?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

. They should have been exposed a looooong time ago.

No one draws the correlation of the hit job they do on Black people and how that green lights how we are treated in society.(With total disrespect)

Everyone on that cooning buffoonish bs needs to be checked.

Whatever point people may have had about Gayle's interview, it was erased once I saw the Snoop video and watched the pile on it triggered.

The response is abusive and a toxic stew of the vilest misogyny, complete with the threat of violence. It's breathtakingly disrespectful and a display of character that's so revealing that I had to actively talk myself out of moving into a space where I was beginning to feel an irreparable rift between myself and Black men. I saw very few Black men taking issue with the response.

To perform such a hateful level of misogyny, let alone *in public*--is beyond the pale. It's meant to shame and belittle Gayle in ways that are unwarranted. It's unforgivable. The subtext of all the comments weaponize, encourage, and justify a strain of virulent, dangerous, misogyny.

Gayle is 65, I believe. I'd rather be in my grave than to disrespect someone in my parents' age group like that. The levels of disrespect for elders also blows. My. Mind.

There's a way to express strong agreement and then there's too far. This response is beyond too far.

Were some of the men chiming in also #GirlDads?

I want to believe that Kobe wouldn't want his fans or friends disrespecting, threatening, harassing or abusing Gayle in this manner even if he was upset by the line of questioning. I want to believe that. I don't know Kobe. But I want to believe that.

It's revolting and discouraging that some Black men are lining up, yet again, to defend a Black man with a complicated history that's related to sexual assault-- and that the route to get there is to blame, shame, and attack Black women.

I think the conversation about Gayle or Oprah's support or not of Black men accussed of sexual assault could've been had. That's one thing. But what I will NOT do is abuse Gayle in order to do it.

This type of thing shakes a person's sense of safety. Gayle should take the threats seriously. Learning self-defense, if she doesn't already, may help to channel some of her feelings...but it may also keep her safe. People are rash and the emotion of the situation encourages irrationality, even the irrationality of violence. I'm so so sorry that this hateful space is where some people are, when celebrating the lives of the souls we've lost should be the point. Lisa Leslie got that.

>Whatever point people may have had about Gayle's interview,
>it was erased once I saw the Snoop video and watched the pile
>on it triggered.
>
>The response is abusive and a toxic stew of the vilest
>misogyny, complete with the threat of violence. It's
>breathtakingly disrespectful and a display of character that's
>so revealing that I had to actively talk myself out of moving
>into a space where I was beginning to feel an irreparable rift
>between myself and Black men. I saw very few Black men taking
>issue with the response.
>
>To perform such a hateful level of misogyny, let alone *in
>public*--is beyond the pale. It's meant to shame and belittle
>Gayle in ways that are unwarranted. It's unforgivable. The
>subtext of all the comments weaponize, encourage, and justify
>a strain of virulent, dangerous, misogyny.
>
>Gayle is 65, I believe. I'd rather be in my grave than to
>disrespect someone in my parents' age group like that. The
>levels of disrespect for elders also blows. My. Mind.
>
>There's a way to express strong agreement and then there's too
>far. This response is beyond too far.
>
>Were some of the men chiming in also #GirlDads?
>
>I want to believe that Kobe wouldn't want his fans or friends
>disrespecting, threatening, harassing or abusing Gayle in this
>manner even if he was upset by the line of questioning. I want
>to believe that. I don't know Kobe. But I want to believe
>that.
>
>It's revolting and discouraging that some Black men are lining
>up, yet again, to defend a Black man with a complicated
>history that's related to sexual assault-- and that the route
>to get there is to blame, shame, and attack Black women.
>
>I think the conversation about Gayle or Oprah's support or not
>of Black men accussed of sexual assault could've been had.
>That's one thing. But what I will NOT do is abuse Gayle in
>order to do it.
>
>This type of thing shakes a person's sense of safety. Gayle
>should take the threats seriously. Learning self-defense, if
>she doesn't already, may help to channel some of her
>feelings...but it may also keep her safe. People are rash and
>the emotion of the situation encourages irrationality, even
>the irrationality of violence. I'm so so sorry that this
>hateful space is where some people are, when celebrating the
>lives of the souls we've lost should be the point. Lisa Leslie
>got that.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Snoop is wrong and went too far but that has nothing to do with Black men.

I think the sexism and misogyny in the remarks aren't unique to only Snoop. I think it's common to find men--Black, White, Latino, Asian, whatever--who internalize various shades of the perspective Snoop broadcast.

Gayle and Oprah have become a proxy for discussing race and gender. As much as the comments were targeted solely at Gayle, I think the comments, in context, engage a wider conversation that's been on people's minds.

>I think the sexism and misogyny in the remarks aren't unique
>to only Snoop. I think it's common to find men--Black, White,
>Latino, Asian, whatever--who internalize various shades of the
>perspective Snoop broadcast.

I've heard women make comments similar to Snoop's comments.

>Gayle and Oprah have become a proxy for discussing race and
>gender. As much as the comments were targeted solely at Gayle,
>I think the comments, in context, engage a wider conversation
>that's been on people's minds.

I believe the wider conversation is lost and grief. A famous male journalist doing what Gayle did would get the same response if not worse.

Or really any level of harassment. I cant imagine a scenario where he would be.

I dont think it negates that it was shitty of her to go there in this interview. Most of the people criticizing her aren't wishing death on her or all that extra shit. I can see why you feel its overshadowed it though

People get in this mob mentality and they don't care whether someone is remorseful or a human being, they just wanna outrage and mob

yes, Gayle messed up, but that doesn't warrant this level of response. its pretty surprising that a nearly 50 year old snoop inplies violence against a 65 yr woman. this doesn't help anybody.

I've hear people say similar about Whitlock.

Nobody cares that she is a women she is putting the lives of millions of Black men in jeopardy when she jumps on the anti black media bandwagon adding to our dehumanization.

Then we have to deal with hamster headed negros and racist and their flunkies who eat up these projections of our character being less than.

All the puppets should be put on notice in fact Snoop ain't go far enough he should have said the puppet masters are next.

THANK YOU!!!

That 'sympathy for the devil' mentality has been a burden on Black people. I'm tired of us feeling sorry for folks who do nothing but hurt our folks over and over. For centuries there was always some 'yassa/yass'm bawse' negro doing their master's bidding that ultimately hurt movements, revolts, future plans for the community, etc. It's time for that to stop for good.

I'm not mad at Snoop at all for his rebuke. Sell out negroes need to be called out, shamed, and if the situation calls for it, have hands put on them. The day of the c**ns and mammies is over. I wish I WOULD play myself defending Gayle when she and her cohort have all the smoke for Black men but when it comes to white dudes, they either have excuses, compassion, or they're outright silent. It's time for both Gayle and Oprah to catch heat.


Since 1976

then they'd be right about us. Fortunately, you guys are fringe and on some other shit.

Yall are part of the problem and don't even know it. SMH.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

All the Black judges and DA's, police etc that railroad innocent Black people(usually men) should feel threatened regardless of age.

All the sellouts in media that push anti black propaganda woman or man in music, radio, television etc should feel as safe as Black people driving through a notoriously racist town on the highway.

Keep your head on a swivel.

(unless they are minors and have no clue they are tools of racism/white supremacy myths).

promoting the stereotype that Black Men are Violent"?





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and projection of the Eurasians historical and current behavior.

Black men have become too soft and forgiving. If people really felt threatened they would think twice before slandering us in media 24/7 and the police would think twice before they try to brutalize and run up on us.

by saying if You come for GayleKing, you come against an army. You will lose, and it won’t be pretty.”

is helping ?

then they'd be right about us. Fortunately, you guys are
>fringe and on some other shit.
>
>Yall are part of the problem and don't even know it. SMH.
>
>

The problem is believing the Hype.

Who cares what they think if they're going to think it anyway? I'm sorry but my heart doesn't bleed for coons and mammies. Too many folks have died, too many movements have died, too many uprisings have been stifled all because of coons and mammies.

That being the bigger man mentality has done nothing but let the offenders off the hook while we continue to catch hell. I'm not going to feel sorry for a chick who throws Black men under the bus all day while she's either making excuses for or remaining silent for white men accused of the same thing the Black men are accused of.


Since 1976

and of course he doesn't take responsibility for his own words when he's called on it.

and how many people really thought his threat was legit?

and it’s snoop. It was disrespectful but it wasn’t as bad as some are trying to make it given the frustration over another attempt to drag a dead man through the mud a week after he died with his daughter.

https://popculture.com/2020/02/09/snoop-dogg-clarifies-gayle-king-remarks-kobe-bryant-controversy/


>and how many people really thought his threat was legit?



Yeah people going too far taking that serious.

those are his words. he could have just said it was poor choice of words instead of saying it wasn't a threat because it does sound like one. he's not wrong to criticize her, but saying shit like that is taking it way too far.

Did you really think for one second Snoop had people ready to ride on Gayle?

I’m sick of people taking internet tough talk seriously. It’s like Americans can’t use their brains anymore.

But also... while I don't think Snoop was ready to ride on Gayle.... his reach is too far, his followers and fans too many, and the internet too uncontrollable... for that message to not be taken seriously.

and the internet is a horrible place

I seriously doubt Snoop made people move on Gayle online. That was happening already.

it was just an irresponsible thing to say. i wouldn't blame her at all for feeling threatened.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

https://twitter.com/search?q=erica%20cobb&src=typed_query


https://twitter.com/ithl123/status/1226017764671991808

I mean I have always been skeptical of the mantra "Believe All Women" because it runs counter to my experience and the knowledge that though false accusations of rape is rare, Black Men are disproportionately the victim of it. I grew up in the South and my parents made so Emmet Till, Scottsboro Boys were lessons I learned early (that and my dad almost losing his mind when he saw a white girl riding in my car).

I think all allegations should be heard and investigated and treated seriously, but you can't get me to sign off the blanket statement "Believe All Women given the history of this country specificallya nd especially if it involves a black man and a white woman. I am not worried about it for me, I am grown and have already navigated all of this stuff, but I am raising two black boys in this country.

You would think that's a reasonable position but it requires nuance and RJCC is representative of how people aren't there for the nuance. It's super frustrating to hear the lack of nuance or understanding context coming from black people (black men even). And then it doesn't help when you have morons coming at it like Snoop Dog and some of the folks in this post.

I just hope the extremes you hear on both ends isn't really representative about how people view these issue IRL and these are only online debates.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I mean I have always been skeptical of the mantra "Believe
>All Women" because it runs counter to my experience and the
>knowledge that though false accusations of rape is rare, Black
>Men are disproportionately the victim of it. I grew up in the
>South and my parents made so Emmet Till, Scottsboro Boys were
>lessons I learned early (that and my dad almost losing his
>mind when he saw a white girl riding in my car).
>
>I think all allegations should be heard and investigated and
>treated seriously, but you can't get me to sign off the
>blanket statement "Believe All Women given the history of this
>country specificallya nd especially if it involves a black man
>and a white woman. I am not worried about it for me, I am
>grown and have already navigated all of this stuff, but I am
>raising two black boys in this country.


DNA which was used to put more black men in prison, turns out to be their savior as we countless see with these articles and many more to come


https://research.msu.edu/innocent-african-americans-more-likely-to-be-wrongfully-convicted/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/florida-pardons-4-black-men-accused-of-1949-rape

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/nyregion/innocence-project-manhattan-rape.html

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-exonerated-wrongful-rape-conviction-36-years-prison/story?id=61865415


Ida B Wells said it herself in her autobiography as an investigative reporter, the 1st in the country to do it, that after the emancipation of blacks- immediately the lynching began based off of "rape" accusations by black men to white women.

cite this.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

because you're obsessed with me, when I haven't said shit about guilt or innocence.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I literally actively avoid you as best I can but you find your way to my posts all the time. I will offer it to you again, I will never mention your name or respond to any post you make, if you leave my name out your mouth and never respond to any post I make.

I can easily do it. You are incapable of it and you know it. For some sad reason you need me in your life. I am sorry for you but, the feeling at mutual.

You should keep in mind I know this (and anyone else paying attention) every time you can't help but try to engage with me.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

You gotta fight the power to engage Gary Gnu

it's just being a man of principle and integrity.

you decide to do something and then you stick by it. I have no control over your actions.

go find a real man somewhere in your zip code and he can explain it to you.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

but the people here who said Snoop was right for going off on a 60 year old black women will continue to argue snoop was right in the first place (and now have to make the convoluted argument that the person who they claimed was right when everyone said he was wrong is now wrong when he is doing what everyone agrees is the right thing).



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Glad to see he apologized.

his first walk back was kinda dismissive but here he broke down the why and owned up to where he was wrong.

if people are still mad at him after this he's free to tell them to fuck off.

>his first walk back was kinda dismissive but here he broke
>down the why and owned up to where he was wrong.
>
>if people are still mad at him after this he's free to tell
>them to fuck off.

He needed to. That shit was cringey as fuck, and that's putting it super lightly. I know Snoop's playing a character half the time on those selfie videos he always takes, but he took it to a highly inappropriate/unnecessary place and really needed to apologize and clear the air.

while Joe thought his apology was solid Mika wanted to keep lecturing on his "so-called apology" and took exception to his two wrongs don't make a right opening That's as far as i got, and my initial reaction was i hope snoop makes a Mika video (I don't reeeally mean that)

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Kbxi7nFI9/

snoopdogg
Verified

Micheal and kobe blew a gust of wind 💨 balance 🤷🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️