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Topic subjectGame Of Thrones Season 8 (part 2)
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=18&topic_id=208817
208817, Game Of Thrones Season 8 (part 2)
Posted by CyrenYoung, Mon May-06-19 10:27 AM



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...
208818, We fittin to talk about this starbucks cup?
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 10:38 AM
https://twitter.com/iwriteallday_/status/1125299683004276738?s=12
208819, mistakes happen LOL!..
Posted by CyrenYoung, Mon May-06-19 11:00 AM
..working in tv/film has my continuity radar on tilt, but mistakes like this are hilarious.






*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...
208820, RE: mistakes happen LOL!..
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 11:06 AM
oh hell yea... it's just mad funny... NO ONE at any point in filming, editing, coloring or pre-screening saw that shit..

I also still want to know what the hell happened with the Dire Wolves(dog/wolf hybrids) they were using in the UK... cuz now its clear they just shoot the wolf green screen somewhere and just plop him in
208821, the DP said he knows there's no Starbucks cup because he shot it
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 11:15 AM
and anyone who saw a starbucks cup doesn't know how to tune their tvs properly
208822, lmao
Posted by Pete Burns, Mon May-06-19 11:36 AM
208823, LOL
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 12:20 PM
nice
208824, The really annoying part is the cardboard sleeve.
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 11:23 AM

She's the Mother of Dragons! The Unburnt! She doesn't need a sleeve for her coffee cup.
208825, ^^^this is the best thing I've ever read on the internet!!
Posted by Af-1, Tue May-07-19 04:24 AM
hahaha
208826, hilarious
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 02:58 PM
208827, right all this was hella stupid...:
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-06-19 10:49 AM
http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13326279&mesg_id=13326279&page=#13330662

Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
43645 posts Mon May-06-19 08:58 AM

628. "Seeing the show really start to struggle past beyond the Source Material"
In response to Reply # 0


Just feels like they are racing from plot point to plot point.

-Sure ships can get launch a surprise attack on a dragon

-Sure Bran (or is it Bron) can roll up and make a new deal and just leave (by the way, a deal made under duress isn't really much of a deal).

- Sure we fall for the misdirection that Jaime is rushing back to be by the side of Cersi not kill her.

- Sure Tyrion's idea confronting Cersei like they did with an emotional plea with that tiny ass army was going to turn out other than it did.

-Sure fine ass Missandei, and Missandei alone, would end up in the hands of Cersei.

All these things happening just because the plot requires these things to happen.


Anyway, still team Sansa because she knows how to play the game.
208828, I think the pregnancy complicates the Cersei thing
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 11:47 AM
>-Sure ships can get launch a surprise attack on a dragon

It seemed Drogon could've just circled around the ships and destroyed them from behind. I kinda want to give this a pass because it had to be disorienting at the time, but I don't see a surprise attack being an issue. Probably the only way it could happen.

>-Sure Bran (or is it Bron) can roll up and make a new deal and
>just leave (by the way, a deal made under duress isn't really
>much of a deal).

The Bron thing bugged me a lot. I know he's a sellswrord, out for himself yada yada, but trusting Cersi just because she paid him up front, and just being that willing to turn on them that way. It all felt silly.

>- Sure we fall for the misdirection that Jaime is rushing back
>to be by the side of Cersi not kill her.

I would say the misdirect was painfully obvious if there wasn't a baby involved.

>- Sure Tyrion's idea confronting Cersei like they did with an
>emotional plea with that tiny ass army was going to turn out
>other than it did.

It seemed like a ridiculous plea, but stravinskian mentioned in the other post, he did kinda slide in some baby daddy drama for Eueron.

Also Tyrion legit doesn't want the city to burn, partially because he's put all his eggs behind Dany and this would make him a fuck up (again!), and because he just doesn't want the city to burn
208829, RE: I think the pregnancy complicates the Cersei thing
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-06-19 12:26 PM
>>-Sure ships can get launch a surprise attack on a dragon
>
>It seemed Drogon could've just circled around the ships and
>destroyed them from behind. I kinda want to give this a pass
>because it had to be disorienting at the time, but I don't see
>a surprise attack being an issue. Probably the only way it
>could happen.

Seems like Daenarys should've spotted them a mile away. And nobody was on watch on the ships?

>>-Sure Bran (or is it Bron) can roll up and make a new deal
>and
>>just leave (by the way, a deal made under duress isn't
>really
>>much of a deal).
>
>The Bron thing bugged me a lot. I know he's a sellswrord, out
>for himself yada yada, but trusting Cersi just because she
>paid him up front, and just being that willing to turn on them
>that way. It all felt silly.

Plus how he just rolled up in there with a crossbow, now that the white walkers are dead they don't have security at Winterfell?


208830, RE: I think the pregnancy complicates the Cersei thing
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 12:58 PM
>>a surprise attack being an issue. Probably the only way it
>>could happen.
>
>Seems like Daenarys should've spotted them a mile away. And
>nobody was on watch on the ships?

They were behind mountains. I'm not sure how high up the dragons were. I think they just got lax. You would think Dany and them would be more weary of spears and scorpions at this point tho.

>Plus how he just rolled up in there with a crossbow, now that
>the white walkers are dead they don't have security at
>Winterfell?

LOL i thought that too, but Bron's kind of a bad mf so i allowed it.
208831, all of that.
Posted by will_5198, Mon May-06-19 06:57 PM
208832, Will Bran be unmasked as the Lord Of Light?
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 11:17 AM
There is a reddit theory that he is the physical embodiment of what they refer to as that...

- We KNOW that Jon Snow and Berric are "wights" but good ones.. so who raised em up?

- Can we raise more people up? Dragons?
208833, we DO?
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-06-19 11:19 AM

>- We KNOW that Jon Snow and Berric are "wights" but good
>ones.. so who raised em up?
>
>- Can we raise more people up? Dragons?
208834, Well, they were brought back from death.
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 11:25 AM

I assume that's all he's saying.
208835, RE: we DO?
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 11:47 AM
GRRM said as much

“..poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.”

https://wikiofthrones.com/9626/george-r-r-martin-reveals-beric-dondarrion-wight-animated-fire/
208836, Is the Lord of Light the only religion they've implied might be true?
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 12:36 PM
The Faith of the Seven is just the medieval Catholic church, the Drowned God is dumb, the Old Gods is just worship of nature/the Children, but the Lord of Light has actually done stuff. SOMETHING made that smoke shadow come out of the Red Woman and is causing people to see visions in the flames and bringing people back to life.
208837, RE: Is the Lord of Light the only religion they've implied might be true?
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 12:48 PM
Well they could all be the same god (different names)... arya has essentially learned magic as well worshipping a god (not the lord of light)

208838, Forgot the Many Faced God
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 01:03 PM
I wasn't sure if the face thing was something that could be taught or if it was magic.
208839, RE: Forgot the Many Faced God
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 02:03 PM
It is something mystical... lol either way

Sansa just out here regular as hell now though.. all her siblings are magical in some way
208840, Missandei: Dracarys! Drogon: Now? Nah I'm good back here.
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 11:33 AM
208841, Shit still got me sick.
Posted by bwood, Mon May-06-19 11:46 AM
Cersei ain't shit!
208842, Word. That Dragon didn't want any parts of that conversation.
Posted by Case_One, Mon May-06-19 11:53 AM

.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co
208843, LOL, yeah, I had to watch to see if he perked up his head,
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 11:54 AM
and then looked around confused like a dog when someone new tells them to fetch.

You're not my mother!
208844, lol nah that was for dany not drogon.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon May-06-19 01:13 PM
208845, Her dying act was to echo the mad king to burn them all. Nice smh
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 01:24 PM
208846, i think Tyrion serves up Varys
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 11:54 AM
and he should probably do it before Varys does it to him.
208847, RE: i think Tyrion serves up Varys
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 12:06 PM
If he does it wont be before Varys tells who he needs to tell about Jon..

I think he knows more than he lets on that if it is "known" by the right people (possibly golden company) that there is a male targaryen heir.. they might rally behind him.
208848, Yeah, and Varys already threw Tryrion under the bus once
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 12:13 PM
on that good of the realm shit

>If he does it wont be before Varys tells who he needs to tell
>about Jon..

Yeah, i have a feeling Varys gets it early in episode 5.

>I think he knows more than he lets on that if it is "known" by
>the right people (possibly golden company) that there is a
>male targaryen heir.. they might rally behind him.

I didn't read the books but I heard recently that's their background.
208849, And I still think Tyrion is coming around to Varys's side.
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 12:16 PM

(Just repeating from the other thread.)

You can tell Tyrion is fully aware that he shouldn't put faith in any monarch. And Dinklage always looks to me like he's trying to be unconvincing when he says things like "A good leader needs to inspire a certain amount of fear."

Maybe Tyrion, Varys, and Jon Snow will chair a Constitutional Convention and enact a system of representative democracy and self-rule in Westeros.


Then in the twist ending it cuts ahead 25 years to Cersei's son Donald Greyjoy winning the presidency (without the popular vote), on an openly racist and anti-wildling platform that promises to rebuild the wall.
208850, I think he's hears Varys' side but also realizes Varys ain't shit.
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 12:23 PM
This dude is a fair weathered fan who already helped throw Tyrion in the lions pit once, and will do it again now that he's not going along.
208851, I don't really remember all their background.
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 12:41 PM

What did Varys do to Tyrion? Honestly the main thing I remember is that he smuggled him out of Westeros and handled his shit for a month.

Did he testify at Tyrion's trial? I vaguely remember that, but I discount it since he sneaked him out of harm's way right after that. I saw it as a bit of necessary misdirection.
208852, yeah he testified that Tyrion threatened Joffrey
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 12:48 PM
Tyrion asked him at the trial that if he remembers telling him if it wasn't for him, Stannis would have won. Varys replied with a vague "sadly i don't forget a thing"

And yes he helped smuggle him out which was a noble thing, but Varys knew with Tywin dead king's landing was fucked. With Tywin alive, and Tommen on the throne he would have considered things stable, and Tyrion's death would have been sad but oh well.

208853, Man I kept thinking a democracy will be how this show ends
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-06-19 01:27 PM
They are all kicking around the idea that all tyrants end up the same way.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
208854, I'm just fuckin around. I don't actually expect that.
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 01:33 PM

I mean, I wouldn't put it past them, but...
208855, You called it.
Posted by WarriorPoet415, Mon May-13-19 09:38 AM

______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.
208856, So much tension in that ep
Posted by sectachrome86, Mon May-06-19 12:02 PM
I think the dragons are neck and neck right now with Bran for being totally useless.

They flamed like 100 white walkers and a few Lannisters so far and thats basically it. Meanwhile been eating like 17 goats a day, taking up mad space, and scaring people. 2 just got easily murked.
208857, Dany's heel turn would be more believable
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 12:26 PM
if we got a few more episodes to set it up. With how quickly they need to move everything along, everything she's doing (and all of the other characters) just comes off extremely petty. Same thing with Varys, he has a single disagreement with her and is like "well SHE'S obviously gotta go now." Would've been nice to unfold these a little slower.
208858, i mean she is kinda losing everything
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 12:38 PM
she could've took king's landing last year.

now she's lost two of her dragons, the dothraki, most unsullied, both of her best friends and advisors. Of what she has left, one of her advisors keeps fucking up, while the other one is considering planning to kill her. Her nephew/boyfriend who she just helped fight "his" war, just crushed her dreams, the people she just saved don't seem to like her very much, etc...

i know she's petulant and unreasonable but i'd argue she's been kind of a good sport despite her impulses.

though i do agree the acceleration is killing the writing.
208859, Yeah, she's not unreasonable at all
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 12:43 PM
But I sort of feel like the show wants us to see her as a Mad Queen so we can root for Jon to take the throne he doesn't want.
208860, If they'd mapped out enough time for all the nuance,
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 12:52 PM
they could have turned her story into something really rich about how honest intentions and nobility can be undermined by bad circumstances, ego, rage, human weakness.

Or I feel like they're also flirting with the same thing they did with the Dragons in Essos killing innocent kids. Yeah the Dragons are glorious beings, but they can't fit in human society however much we want them to. They're saying the same thing about the "benevolent dictator."

Maybe they'll get there, on either of these stories or some other one. But they're certainly being more ham-fisted about getting me to hate her than they were about getting me to love her.
208861, Oh man, THIS 100%
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 01:04 PM
>But they're certainly being more ham-fisted about
>getting me to hate her than they were about getting me to love
>her.


Sums it up perfectly.
208862, Lol she never had such noble intentions. It was always her own glory.
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 01:31 PM
208863, I'd say the show directly and completely refutes that statement .
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-06-19 02:17 PM
She clearly presents noble intentions, and even makes good on some of those intentions.

For your statement to be true, she wouldn't have fought to free the slaves of Mereen, nor would she have told the Unsullied they could leave if they so chose.

They fought for her of their own choices, and she earned their unyielding support in the process.

Her more selfish motives have been there since she got her dragons, and as you correctly stated, have been seeded this entire time.

That those selfish motives have reached critical mass does not change that she has also had noble motives throughout, because she has inarguably demonstrated the opposite to be true.

The tipping point to me is when Jon came to her she reached a point where she had a chance to break the wheel, she could have granted Jon his crown to forge a true alliance.

Instead, she took his crown, demanded fealty in exchange to fight an enemy that was a threat to all of Westeros, only to turn around and frame that as "Jon's war".

Up to that point, despite her selfish motives growing, there was a clear duality.
208864, yeah its unfair because it implies she's basically just like her brother
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 03:07 PM
but it's much more layered
208865, She's arguably worse, because he was honest about his selfishness
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 06:35 PM
She's been able to manipulate everyone far better than he ever could.

Mind you, i was full blown #teamDany in the first season. I thought she was gonna be the one i ride with throughout the series. And im sure she has a bit more good in her than her brother did, so in that sense, he was worse because he was a caricature...but she has ppl thinking she actually cares about the people lol...she only cares about them to the extent where it lets her be a hero. The thought of murdering innocent ppl if it helps her own cause has never phased her.
208866, Absolutely. I don't even see a hell turn
Posted by calminvasion, Mon May-06-19 02:10 PM
>she could've took king's landing last year.
>
>now she's lost two of her dragons, the dothraki, most
>unsullied, both of her best friends and advisors. Of what she
>has left, one of her advisors keeps fucking up, while the
>other one is considering planning to kill her. Her
>nephew/boyfriend who she just helped fight "his" war, just
>crushed her dreams, the people she just saved don't seem to
>like her very much, etc...
>
>i know she's petulant and unreasonable but i'd argue she's
>been kind of a good sport despite her impulses.
>
>though i do agree the acceleration is killing the writing.
>

Like the way they've done it, it just seems like they're throwing her under the bus for having extremely understandable reactions to being put into terrible situations, few of which are due to her mistakes.

And f'k Sansa, her action are just as unjustified. And just as selfish.

I'm all good if Danny turned mad queen, but the way it's been handled and how she's being rail-roaded, has turned me team Dany when I never was before.

In terms of what type of leader she would be... I get it, maybe she can't stack up to the perfect John snow, but against 90% of the monarchsh that came before??? Man, she's better than most. Just nonsensical
208867, me neither, i think it's just a constant tease
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 02:54 PM
she no longer has the leverage anyway.

she spent all this time building this, missed her best/easist shot because her advisors told her to lay back, and play the long game. now it's all crumbling, and every time she speaks on her goal, or tries to take charge, people are like... foh entitled ass.

and yeah, i think she has a better gripe than Sansa whose whole rationale seems to be "ionno, i just don't trust that bitch", and a vague reference to Rob on how men do stupid shit for pussy.

and again, Varys ain't shit. What good is having an advisor who will always bounce on you when things get rough? it seems he'll roll any way the wind blows as long as he gets a seat at the table.
208868, Me neither. Her heel turn was S2. Since then, its just been pregression
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 06:34 PM
208869, They been setting it up since S2...every1 just refused to see it
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 01:26 PM
208870, Right. Dany has always been terrible at governing and politics
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-06-19 03:21 PM
She is a fighter and warrior, liberator, but she has always been a "my way or the highway" type. That works fine when you are a foreign invader, doesn't work when you are trying to be a unfied government that requires alliances.

Sansa has a much better sense of politics than Dany, but Dany and Jon always underestimate the value of politicking.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
208871, Yup.
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-06-19 05:59 PM
Not that she's a tyrant but its always been about her "destiny" and bend the knee. I get she freed the unsullied but lets not act like she didnt do all this so she could have a massive army. If they werent warriors i doubt she would have cared as much
208872, RE: Yup.
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-06-19 06:03 PM
LOL I definitely remember that situation as being a 60/40 kind of split. "These guys are some merciless fucking killing machines and you can't possibly counter them with anything contemporary militaries are trained for because they enter into battle with zero emotional investment and elite combat training...and it's cause they don't have dicks or balls and were raised as child soldiers"



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
208873, I like that the show had her point out how different Westeros is
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-06-19 05:55 PM
Kinda like how America thought they could just install a democracy somewhere and have it work. She's learning that the stuff she was good at or loved for across the water doesnt work here. You cant just say "my name is so and so" and expect to be anointed. Westeros follows people that have proven something, unless forced to do otherwise.
208874, 100%
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 03:16 PM
especially compared to how they built stuff up in earlier seasons.

this whole season has been action/immediate consequence.

208875, I feel like IF GRRM finishes this shit, it won't go down like this at all
Posted by GOMEZ, Mon May-06-19 12:27 PM
show is still fun as hell, but pretty clearly suffers from the lack of quality source material in the later seasons. The story feels like pretty decent fan fiction with a massive special effects budget - though not enough for some dire wolves...

Then again maybe George wrote himself into a corner and don't know how to wrap this shit up either.

Either way it's TV, so I don't really give a shit. I'm gonna do my best to enjoy it.


208876, imo... best ending would have been an undead victory
Posted by PG, Mon May-06-19 01:40 PM
208877, supposedly GRRM consulted with the producers.
Posted by WarriorPoet415, Tue May-07-19 10:24 AM
and the finish of the show closely mirrors some plot points that GRRM has in mind for the ending of the book series.
______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.
208878, So, will Grey Worm kill the Mountain?
Posted by Case_One, Mon May-06-19 01:13 PM
Or will the "You Know Who" that the Hound mentioned kill the Mountian?

And does anyone know who the Hound was talking about?


.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co
208879, That could be a cool action sequence even tho i wanted Arya to
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 01:25 PM
208880, he's not on Arya's list
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 02:57 PM
her only exposure to him was at Herenhal, and i don't think they interacted
208881, Yeah but Cersei is, and he guards her. I was thinking more
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 06:50 PM
like taking him out to get to her
208882, Wait, didn't the Mountain carry out Ned's execution?
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 08:25 PM

I could be remembering wrong, and it's also complicated by the fact that they changed actors.
208883, Nah, that was Ser Ilyn Payne.
Posted by Pete Burns, Tue May-07-19 12:12 AM
https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Ilyn_Payne
208884, Ah, thanks.
Posted by stravinskian, Tue May-07-19 07:55 AM

Now I remember that dude.
208885, and hes podrick's cousin right? what happened to him?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-07-19 11:45 AM
because he didn't die on the show
208886, I think the actor died in real life
Posted by Marauder21, Wed May-08-19 03:17 PM
And they just sort of forgot him in the show.
208887, Wilko Johnson (Payne) has been battling cancer but he's still alive.
Posted by Pete Burns, Thu May-09-19 03:53 AM
But, yeah, they just dropped the character.

In the books, it's Payne that trains with Jamie after he loses his hand, not Bronn.
208888, the hound might kill greyworm if he did
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 01:26 PM
for robbing him of the chance. And yea 100% it's what he meant
208889, Himself
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 01:27 PM
>And does anyone know who the Hound was talking about?
208890, There's gonna be a line out the door to kill The Mountain.
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 01:35 PM

It's gonna be like the death of Jon Snow, only The Mountain is already a zombie.
208891, As alluded to in the previous post, the "Who will sit on the Iron Throne?..."
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-06-19 01:20 PM
...is pretty much guaranteed to be a red herring. No one is going to sit on the Iron Throne. I'm guessing Dany is going to use Drogon to physially melt it down. Before she dies somehow.

But as they've been not-at-all subtly hammering home this whole season, the idea of one ruler is going the way of the White Walkers, the Wall, and the Children of the Forest. The pursuit of the Throne corrupts everyone. They're setting up the Jon is going to be the one who "breaks the wheel" and gets Westeros to move on.
208892, Yeah, I think at this point we can all give zero shits if Dany takes the throne
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-06-19 01:29 PM

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
208893, That would be dope, independence for all
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 01:34 PM
Sansa the Queen in the North
Yara running the Iron Islands
Tyrion (or even better, Pod) at Casterly Rock
Bronn in Highgarden
Gendry the Storm King
Titty Boi Your Highness of the Vale
Find some people to watch over the Riverlands and Dorne
208894, Completely forgot they mentioned a new prince in Dorne last night
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-06-19 03:38 PM
Didn't bother to give him a name, though.
208895, I really hope this is the case. Seems like ppl don't think Jon is
Posted by snacks, Mon May-06-19 02:44 PM
... a good leader, and although he does have a lot of Ned in him, he has essentially, on a smaller scale, already broken the wheel twice. As Lord Commander, he united with the Free Folk to protect all of them (which cost him his life), and bent the knee to save the North (which cost him a crown he didn't want but saved his hometown). If you remove the political BS, Jon is actually a solid leader IMO. Give him a good Hand of the King to handle the bureaucracy if it comes down to it
208896, would Sansa be Jon's "Hand"?
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-06-19 03:36 PM
208897, I wouldn't be mad at it
Posted by snacks, Wed May-08-19 05:05 PM
I was also listened to Talk the Thrones podcast and there's a mini-theory that Jon and Tormund/Ghost's goodbye was foreshadowing and he's gonna end up being one of the Free Folk once it's all over, which I'd be even less mad at
208898, i read all the leaked spoilers and frankly
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-06-19 01:23 PM
glad i did

208899, Shame
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-06-19 02:41 PM
Get out.

208900, eh this show is on some bullshit mostly
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-06-19 05:28 PM
so now i cant possibly be any more disappointed in the show


quite liberating actually
208901, The whole season leaked ?
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-06-19 04:25 PM
hmmmm
208902, i dont know if the full episodes leaked
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-06-19 05:27 PM
but the major plot points for the remainder of the season did
208903, They've done that before and it was horseshit.
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-06-19 06:50 PM
Someone gets the plot leak for an episode thats about to air and then tries to fill in the blanks for the remaining episodes. If i read the same thing you did its happened before and the person tried to pass it off as a leak of the whole season. Im not really buying it
208904, well every single thing they said would happen in ep 4
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-06-19 07:00 PM
happened


so i guess we'll see


the point is though im pretty much over the show and wasnt interested in watching the last episodes anyways so i felt the time was right
208905, I pray these last two eps are amazing
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-06-19 07:45 PM
Im not sure i can watch the other seven seasons with the same passion if i know they fucked up the ending.
208906, so far pretty much spot on
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun May-12-19 09:44 PM
208907, Thanks I'm gonna check that out
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-06-19 06:57 PM
n/m
208908, With this episode, the only thing I'm mad about is the pace
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-06-19 04:23 PM
Loved everything otherwise. Unlike last episode that was legitimately full of awkward pacing and framing, this was a great episode I could only find ways to be mad at because it reminds me of how good this show can be when it's really on it's game and I wish the show could just give itself room to cook.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
208909, Agreed, i thought this was a fantastic episode.
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 04:39 PM
208910, yeah the pacing accelerated last season, now its even worse
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-06-19 04:46 PM
and for all its problems, i really liked this episode too. it felt like its old self in many ways.

but i mentioned in the other post, even Dany wanting things to go back to how it used to be with Jon felt weird, like there was some happy period they had, when it was really about 10 minutes a couple weeks ago.

and travel time doesn't even exist anymore.
208911, Nikolai Coster-Waldau said something revealing to Vanity Fair
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-06-19 04:52 PM
"Trying to connect the dots between the scenes was a little complicated because you invest so much time, so many years in these characters, so when suddenly you find out that Jaime comes back and his son has committed suicide . . . there’s so many things that obviously you can’t go through, on-screen, all of these moments, but you have to still walk through them in your mind, if you’re an actor, at least talk about them. There was a lot of those connecting the dots throughout."


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
208912, Even in earlier seasons there were some gaps, but book readers
Posted by GOMEZ, Mon May-06-19 06:23 PM
helped to fill them in. So now i feel like with the advanced pace and lack of book info, you just have to be ok with not understanding certain shit and ignoring some glaring plot holes.

I'm pretty sure this Bran/3 eyed raven shit is never gonna be explained in a satisfactory way in the show.



208913, Is Sansa a hero or a villain?
Posted by Case_One, Mon May-06-19 06:22 PM



.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co
208914, RE: Is Sansa a hero or a villain?
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 06:27 PM
She is both... she is only one who understands the “game of thrones”

She has been trained by the best

To be honest she should sit on the throne..
208915, I mean, really, does she really understand it?
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-06-19 07:02 PM
Again, what's the point of telling Tyrion that Jon is the rightful heir? Especially if her goal is to a) keep the Starks together and b) have an independent North. You'd think backing the person who actually wants the Throne and has the real means to attain it would get her closer to her goal.

Sansa is going from smart to dumb really quick. Just like everyone else on this show.
208916, RE: I mean, really, does she really understand it?
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 09:14 PM
>Again, what's the point of telling Tyrion that Jon is the
>rightful heir? Especially if her goal is to a) keep the Starks
>together and b) have an independent North. You'd think backing
>the person who actually wants the Throne and has the real
>means to attain it would get her closer to her goal.
>
>Sansa is going from smart to dumb really quick. Just like
>everyone else on this show.

Nah son.. she is playing the little finger game... She knows she needed him to question his absoluteness (about dany).... now that they know they will do what they always do..
208917, Sansa on the throne is my prediction
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-06-19 09:17 PM
Jon doesn’t want it
208918, RE: Sansa on the throne is my prediction
Posted by double 0, Mon May-06-19 10:24 PM
Yea tbh I feel like she will be the only person who understands it..

208919, I used to think she was a villain, but so far in S8 she's been a hero
Posted by Jon, Mon May-06-19 06:49 PM
Without question
208920, Dany fans hate her
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-06-19 06:53 PM
Its amazing to go on twitter and instagram and see the lengths people go to do defend their favorite characters actions. Sansa had a major point telling Dany to chill and let the army rest. Dany didnt listen and got her ass handed to her. Dany fans are still trying to pass it off as Sansa being a hater.

And dont get me started on the male/female dynamic. Folks trying to make Thrones into a feminism battle.
208921, a villain?
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-06-19 06:56 PM
She didn't keep her word to John.
208922, in GOTT, keeping your word is highly overrated....unless it's the red wedding
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Wed May-08-19 09:37 AM
but yeah.

It's a dumb word to keep.

Her not telling anyone could get Jon killed and his dumb ass doesn't even know it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
208923, in GRRM world that its not an either or thing
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-06-19 07:01 PM
she is being set up as the one doing the best at "playing the game of thrones"


208924, Yeah, she's one of the few 'complicated' characters left,
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-06-19 08:28 PM

now that they've moved on from the source material.
208925, I wish they had stuck with the 10 episode seasons
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-06-19 06:56 PM
I feel like the story is legit but the time needed to let it marinate and pay off has been taken away. Im assuming it was for budget reasons but i cant for the life of me understand why they shortened the last two seasons. Im enjoying it but it could have ended so much better. Season 6 was that fire
208926, I guess you can make the argument that they didn't want...
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-06-19 07:35 PM
...three of the first four episodes to be completely Winterfell-centric. But they removed so many other players off the board that its one of two places left. And no one in King's Landing besides Cersei is really that interesting. And all they've had her do so far this team around is stand on various balconies drinking wine.
208927, Them dragons aint for shit if you don’\t use them. Always getting got
Posted by rdhull, Mon May-06-19 10:09 PM
nm
208928, Gendry needs to get to work on some dragon-sized breastplates.
Posted by stravinskian, Tue May-07-19 08:51 AM

He's not retired at Storm's End yet.
208929, Why didn't Dany order some armor made for the dragons
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-07-19 09:05 AM
after she first saw the giant crossbow last season? Or at least after the Night King got Viserion, particularly since they knew they'd be fighting him again?

Everyone but Sansa is so dumb.
208930, I imagine it’s difficult to get measurements for Dragons
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-07-19 09:34 AM
and how do you fly with armor thick enough to stop those big ass arrows?

Now that’s dumb.
208931, There's no way something that strong is going to be unable to fly
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-07-19 09:46 AM
with a breastplate on. She's their mom, she can get some measurements.
208932, ppl can barely put clothes on a dog
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue May-07-19 10:31 AM
how tf you supposed to get a dragon to chill long enough for you to armor it up lol.
208933, lol...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue May-07-19 12:31 PM
>how tf you supposed to get a dragon to chill long enough for
>you to armor it up lol.
208934, Again, how does a slow moving ship sneak up on a flying dragon?
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Tue May-07-19 10:45 AM
How does a fleet of ship with Dragons escorting them get rolled up on?


They are just pushing the plot along and we can see where this is heading: Dany will end the series with no dragons and everyone is going to be like, "well why are we listening to the blond with no dragons?"




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
208935, Is Rhaegal actually dead?
Posted by Case_One, Tue May-07-19 11:25 AM

.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co
208936, i was thinking that too even though it seemed clear
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-07-19 11:31 AM
because we saw a bolt split his neck in half

but its GOT and we know how they are with off screen deaths

I could see even a half dead Reghal ambush the fleet next week and maybe falling after
208937, They are magic right? The Night King was magic so he was deadly
Posted by Case_One, Tue May-07-19 11:44 AM
on a different level
.
.

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

"Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men..."~ Co
208938, I never really considered them magic
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-07-19 11:48 AM
as much as just extinct beasts in that universe

208939, I feel like the line "dragons are magic" has been repeated a few times
Posted by Triptych, Wed May-08-19 10:13 AM
208940, From what I know of the books, it's stated pretty explicitly,
Posted by stravinskian, Wed May-08-19 10:25 AM

that White Walkers are magical beings of ice, and dragons are magical beings of fire.
208941, I mean, these three dragons were born from three stone eggs after...
Posted by mrhood75, Wed May-08-19 03:11 PM
...Dany performed a blood ritual. Ain't no other way to define that other than "magic."
208942, In that case, he can survive a bolt through the neck!
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed May-08-19 04:56 PM
#Rhaegallives
208943, Ha, I don't disagree.
Posted by mrhood75, Wed May-08-19 05:00 PM
This show has never figured out how to use the Dragons or the dire wolves though. Or pretty much anything magic.
208944, It's also stated explicitly that dragon hide is damn near impenetrable.
Posted by shockzilla, Thu May-09-19 11:01 AM
208945, In the books, these scorpions/ballistas existed in the past
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 10:50 AM
when the Targaryens last ruled Westeros. And they didn't work. They couldn't penetrate the dragon's hide and were only effective if they could manage a direct shot into their eyes.
So, it's kinda interesting to me that the show took a different approach. And that they hyped the dragons up to be this unstoppable force, before killing two of them very easily (imo), and the having them return to the unstoppable force again.
208946, What the fuck you mean is he fuckin dead God?
Posted by sectachrome86, Wed May-08-19 10:43 AM
Unsullied 1:
Yo, yo, God, word is bond, yo
Rhaegal just got bust in his head two times, God!

Unsullied 2:
Word life, God. You know Rhaegal from fuckin' Dragonstone, God?
The nigga just got bucked
Niggas in a black ship, God, word is bond
Came through, God, from out of nowhere, God
Word is bond I'm comin' to get my Culture Cipher, God
And they just… word is bond
Crazy shots just went the fuck off, God

Unsullied 1:
Niggas let off crazy shots, kid

Unsullied 2:
The nigga layin' there like a fuckin' newborn fuckin' baby, God
208947, lmao
Posted by Pete Burns, Wed May-08-19 11:49 AM
208948, Bravo sir!
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Wed May-08-19 04:02 PM
208949, Just saw a youtube theory video about dragons
Posted by walihorse, Thu May-09-19 08:45 AM
apparently they think that one of the dragons (forgot which one) left and laid eggs. lol

*edit*

the dragon tyrion and jorah saw in valyria was one of them laying babies.
208950, I guessed this too but thought it'd be weird with the incest angle
Posted by Triptych, Thu May-09-19 01:19 PM
lol.

But yeah I'd always thought of them as males but maybe there's a female.
Hell maybe the spontaneously reproduce.

Even those toddler dragons were lighting people up and they'd be impossible to hit with those scorpion arrows.

208951, In this show, an "incest angle" is a feature, not a bug.
Posted by stravinskian, Thu May-09-19 01:35 PM
208952, Show is okay... GRRM is probably learning what NOT to write about
Posted by After_Words, Wed May-08-19 02:42 PM
Bran is wasted in this series (I actually liked the progression in his character arc until this season), Dany and Jon arguing over some petty issue, Cersei could have just ended this whole war by shooting every single person outside of King's Landing... I don't know, maybe Martin threw out these ideas to the directors to see how it lands with the audience. Watch him go in a different direction with his books.
208953, they're gonna promise Bron the throne before this is over
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed May-08-19 05:07 PM
as the goofy Bron bidding war continues

or more likely he'll just get killed next week.

208954, they're going to give him Highgarden then kill him on the throne...
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu May-09-19 06:58 AM
a Lannister always pays his debts lol
208955, In one scene they made that character a whole lot less interesting.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Thu May-09-19 09:02 AM

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
208956, he's never really been interesting though
Posted by MiracleRic, Thu May-16-19 02:53 PM
he's actually the least complicated character

he's a sell sword through and through that would desperately like to become a lord and retire

that's literally it

Tyrion and Jaime made him interesting bc he's a very good sell sword
208957, He's gonna fuck around and get Arya'd
Posted by Triptych, Thu May-09-19 01:20 PM
.
208958, Whaddup Cyren
Posted by MistaGoodBar, Wed May-08-19 06:05 PM
208959, *head nod*
Posted by CyrenYoung, Thu May-09-19 01:08 PM

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...
208960, Confession: Me and wife have fallen asleep to every ep. this season.
Posted by double negative, Thu May-09-19 01:37 PM
we start off excited but then we end up waking up towards the end talking about "WHAT HAPPEN?"

two more episodes and this shit is over.


When we get near the end of a cultural phenomenon, do you ever think "I wonder what we will be excited for next?"

We went crazy for Breaking Bad, Sopranos, etc...I'm curious whats going to be the new shit in the next few years...then again, the world has changed and we have many things happening simultaneously that are all amazing.
208961, on a rewatch the dragon thing is so much worse
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-10-19 02:42 PM
i won't lie, on first watch i thought it was really powerful because it caught me so off guard, but the idea that it should have caught them off guard is absurd.

literally a few minutes before at the war council they were discussing how euron's forces are out there. it would stand to reason if you're not a complete idiot that they place he might ambush would be behind the mountains.

if you can see the dragon and dany a mile up, the dragon can see you.

Supervillain Euron lands 3 clean shots at a moving target a mile up.

Drogon could have rolled around back and flamed the whole fleet, even if the scorpoin had full turn capablity, you cant shoot thorugh your sails, or just fly directly above where they couldn't launch (beacuse if they miss it flies directly down at the ship.

i give the last part somewhat of a pass because I don't think Dany wanted to risk her last "child" and she was disorented, but the rest is all awful.

That said, maybe Dany could've listened to Sansa, and Rheagal could have let the holes in his wings heal up.

On an unrelated note, at the war council Dothraki guy pulled half his pieces off the board. D&D in the aftershow a week before literally told us we witnessed the end of the Dothraki

208962, My headcanon for this is they won an impossible war with zero strategy
Posted by Marauder21, Fri May-10-19 03:24 PM
So they just figured "fuck it, let's keep doing whatever with no foresight or anything resembling a strategy, because we're all just too damn tired from the White Walkers."
208963, To be fair, they DIDN'T know that they'd upgraded the ballistas,
Posted by stravinskian, Fri May-10-19 04:10 PM
or that they'd mounted them to the ships.

All that our heroes knew was that Cersei's forces had much smaller ballistas. The only one of which they'd seen was the one on the road that hit Drogon and didn't seem to pierce the skin.

These new ones appeared to launch with an order of magnitude more energy. The only person in this medieval world who seems to think about "technology" as an upgradeable thing is Qyburn, so I can understand them not thinking that the ballistas could have been made much stronger. Also, they'd been distracted.

And leading off from this, if they weren't aware of the upgraded ballistas, or of the fact that they'd been mounted on the ships, then Euron's fleet would have seemed much less of a threat, and really no threat at all to the dragons. And then for the ships, the only reason Euron was able to decimate Dany's fleet was, again, the ballistas.

As for Euron getting off three good shots in a row, I don't think that's how it worked. We saw from the ships' perspective: ALL of the ships had ballistas, and they fired them in volleys like archers. They were sending up like 50 arrows at a time. It's not as surprising that one out of 50 would hit.

This doesn't forgive them for not NOTICING the fleet, apparently not even sending up a simple scout (or maybe the dragons *were* the scouts, if I wanted to continue making excuses...).
208964, Maybe Tyrion just needs to start fucking again
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-10-19 04:39 PM
He told Jaimie he hadn't gotten any in three years. It's having a reverse George Costanza affect on his skillset.

>The only person in this medieval world who seems
>to think about "technology" as an upgradeable thing is Qyburn,

Qyburn was also correct in his exchange with Tyrion on who has the edge. As cool as I thought the standoff was it still makes no sense Cersei doesn't take everyone out there. If you can get a moving Rhegal in the sky from a boat, the could have easily clipped Drogon, as well as.. everyone. We know Cersei isn't on some Jaimie vs Ned "It wouldn't have been clean" shit. The lady blew up a church full of people.
208965, Yeah, I can not conjure an explanation for that.
Posted by stravinskian, Fri May-10-19 05:12 PM

Closest I can come is the old "I want it to be more painful than that" movie villain logic (which we did see from Cersei with, uhh, whatsername from Dorne). But that seems like a hell of a stretch given the other issues here.

Regarding Tyrion and Qyburn, yeah, I'd been thinking: if there's one person whose JOB it is to anticipate things like Qyburn's new ballistas, it's Tyrion. So maybe he fucked up again.

The reason I can imagine them not anticipating the upgraded ballistas is because I remember the scene in season 1 where Tyrion gave the Starks the design for a saddle for Bran. It was just a simple bit of engineering but people looked at him like he was some kind of sorcerer.

For the upcoming episode, Tyrion's assignment to invent a thing that destroys ballistas.
208966, I agree that Cersei could've annihilated them right then and there...
Posted by ThaTruth, Sat May-11-19 12:45 PM
but that would've been too easy and anti-climatic lol
208967, where tf was Bran?!? Why didn't he warg into a raven to scout?
Posted by shygurl, Fri May-10-19 11:06 PM
Bran could have seen that there were updated ballistas and warned the Dany and crew, but this terrible writing has him back at Winterfell doingggg whatttt? Peeping at people having sex? Remembering back in the day when he could walk? Shit is infuriating.
208968, One, you're misremembering things
Posted by Hitokiri, Sat May-11-19 11:02 AM
https://youtu.be/YWC0eIquJVU?t=152

So... there's that.
But given the force the scorpions seem to fire with, while mounted on a boat, do you not suspect the recoil, would send the ship rocking, causing waves that send the other ships to rock, making aiming near impossible?

And how does one explain arrows blowing a ship apart like cannonballs?


IMO
that whole shit was poorly conceived, poorly thought out, poorly executed. Pretty much like everything else from the past 2-3 seasons of this show.
208969, yeah plus the first 3 shots are the only ones we see
Posted by Mynoriti, Sat May-11-19 09:16 PM
Granted maybe they all weren't Euron but they all land

After Rheagal goes down you see one more fly by Dany

The only time we see several is when Dany is charging the fleet. Some of those actually had a more realistic shot of landing but dont lol
208970, That's the only time we see several...
Posted by stravinskian, Sun May-12-19 11:30 AM

because that's the only time we're zoomed out.

If your complaint is that *if* we saw three hits then we would have been likely to see more than one near-miss, then sure, I agree. But probability never predicts things exactly.

Let's estimate that if a bolt enters that close-up frame then there's a 1 in 6 chance of it landing on a dragon (probably pretty conservative, given how much space they fill in the frame, and beyond, in a lot of those shots). Then the odds of it all working out like it did would be the same as the odds of rolling four dice and having three of them come up six. Maybe not likely, but far from impossible or even implausible. It's the kind of unlikely event that occurs all the time even outside of fantasy stories.


Sidenote: The Wire was a much better show than Game of Thrones. It's a shame that I'm using techniques from the plot of The Wire to defend the lazy plotting of Game of Thrones.
208971, I'm a physics professor. I know how recoil works.
Posted by stravinskian, Sun May-12-19 11:09 AM
And I think you're hugely overestimating it. The ships are a hell of a lot more massive than the bolts.

Anyway, "aiming" is irrelevant. You don't "aim" bows at long range. You send up a volley of many arrows (or bolts), as they clearly did, and you let probability handle the rest.

>And how does one explain arrows blowing a ship apart like
>cannonballs?

YOU'RE the one claiming the bolts were massive enough to make an entire ship recoil! An impact would impart all that momentum in a much shorter span of time, which means much higher forces (\Delta p = \int F dt), and all it takes for a bolt to start breaking up the wood is for that force to exceed its breaking strain.



As for me "misremembering," it would've hardly been a big deal if I had. This is a damn TV show. You're taking it awfully seriously with the "So... there's that."

But looking at the clip you linked, I don't see what you think I misremembered. The dragon was startled when he got hit, but he wasn't even forced to land. He recovered even before he hit the ground, hovered, and blasted the shit out of the ballista.

When I said it didn't "pierce" the skin, what I meant is that it didn't go through (pierce) the skin and damage any tissue underneath. Yeah, it embedded in the skin and Dany had to pull it out (that much was crucial to the plot, so hard to misremember), but it didn't do any significant harm. It was like kicking a cactus. Those barbed thorns hurt like hell, and they're a motherfucker to remove, but they won't do any harm.



I don't want to be the one defending the writing in this show, because I agree it's been piss poor on balance. But we don't have to invent flaws to make that case.
208972, Lol the fact that you're a physicist is essentially your schtick here bro
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 09:00 AM
which is why i even posed those questions to you.
Lol at changing the definition of "pierce the skin" though.
And you are also taking this quite fucking personally as well as seriously so that's a funny thing to point out too
208973, LOL, "changing the definition."
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-13-19 09:53 AM

I'm not a surgeon, or a needleworker, or a tailor, or a swordsman, but I'm pretty sure that they'd all agree that to pierce a membrane means to go through it. I'll spare the cliche of reposting the definition, but you're welcome to look it up.

You think I forgot that he got hit? One or two seasons ago (I'm being vague to avoid the dreaded accusation of misremembering) he was hit multiple times with *hand thrown* spears, and they embedded in his skin, too.

So no, in case I was unclear, I was not trying to argue that Dany thought the dragons were invulnerable.
208974, Don't worry, I'll post the definition
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 10:12 AM
Because you said "The only one of which they'd seen was the one on the road that hit Drogon and didn't seem to pierce the skin."

The definition of pierce, according to Merriam-Webster is

transitive verb
1a : to run into or through as a pointed weapon does : stab
b : to enter or thrust into sharply or painfully
2 : to make a hole through : perforate
3 : to force or make a way into or through

So "embedding" into skin, as you put it, is doing absolutely what the definition says.

So, yeah, you're changing the definition of the word for your argument. And argument that's pointless now that you've said you weren't implying the dragons were invulnerable. It seemed to me that you were implying just that because you appeared to be saying that Dany had no reason to be wary because the last time they faced off against the scorpions, the bolt didn't even pierce the skin. She absolutely should have been wary because a scorpion bolt did pierce her dragon before, and sent him into freefall before her recovered moments before hitting the ground. And following that having a dragon taken out by another projectile weapon, in the form of the night king's spear... she should have absolutely been wary.

But since you weren't intending the dragons were thought invulnerable, there isn't a point in arguing.
Have a nice day.
208975, through; through; perforate; through
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-13-19 10:45 AM

Alright then.
208976, LMAO You can't be serious right now.
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 10:54 AM
transitive verb
1a : TO RUN INTO or through as a pointed weapon does : STAB
b : TO ENTER OR THRUST INTO SHARPLY OR PAINFULLY
2 : to make a hole through : perforate
3 : TO FORCE OR MAKE A WAY INTO or through

please note the caps.
208977, You're really still going with this?
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-13-19 11:25 AM
Do I have to walk you through every single step of your logic fail?

Yes, the word can be taken to mean "into" or "through."

But *I* was the one who used the word. And *YOU* were the one who accused me of misremembering because *YOU* wanted to use some other interpretation.

Let it go. Maybe I could have been clearer, but you misunderstood. That's okay.
208978, RE: You're really still going with this?
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 11:56 AM
LMAO
Pots black as shit, man.
208979, RE: Game Of Thrones Season 8 (part 2)
Posted by double 0, Sat May-11-19 10:19 PM
Do we think qyburn and varys are working together?

They have the same little birds and qyburn knew when the wall fell and when they won...

Going back over qyburn telling bron to kill tyrion and jamie and it seems weird that he issued the order not cersei. She has had every opportunity to kill her brothers but hasn't..

Could also mean the ambush on dany was more pre-meditated

208980, interesting but i don't see it
Posted by Mynoriti, Sat May-11-19 10:40 PM
Not sure how much hand of the king pays, but Bron got paid in advance. And Cersei has put a bounty on Tyrion in the past

>Could also mean the ambush on dany was more pre-meditated

Varys was on one of those ships tho.

I do think Varys dies tomorrow night.
208981, RE: interesting but i don't see it
Posted by double 0, Sat May-11-19 11:36 PM
Think about how much money qyburn has access too right now..

He is the one building the crazy scorpions and prepping for the fight.. doubt money would be an issue..

Varys definitely could die... or even wilder GOT time might have tyrion double cross dany (we dont know what his sis and him agreed upon) and die

Varys HAS to be communicating with someone... just who
208982, my thing is it's not something he'd need to do behind Cersei's back
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 02:51 AM
she seems to have a problem killing her brothers when they're in front of her, but not with putting out contracts on them (remember when she had people bringing her dwarf heads?)

I'm not really sure why Varys thinks Jon would turn on Dany (other than bad writing, because Varys isn't that dumb). Like, even if he got him to do it, why would Jon ever trust Varys after that?

I don't think he'll turn Tyrion this late in the game, but I'm also not sold on Dany's inevitable heel turn. I think it's a tease.

208983, RE: my thing is it's not something he'd need to do behind Cersei's back
Posted by double 0, Sun May-12-19 03:30 PM
How many times has jon chose the “honorable” or “righteous” thing over love or any other emotion for that matter...

If varys is driving dany to “madness” by orchestrating scenarios (ambush killing rhaegal) he might be doing so knowing that if jon has to make a choice between unhinged dany and the people of the seven kingdoms he will chose the later

Qyburn could also be plotting in the same way just with cersei ... I mean dude resurrected someone who almost killed him (the mountain). And now fully has cersei’s trust...

If both dany and cersei are cleared off the board then they both could see the realm as having a chance...

We’ll see soon enough though... everything I am saying could be bullshit in a few hours
208984, That's my point tho. Jon/Ned have tunnel vision in that regard
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 04:37 PM
last year Jon blew up the Cersei truce (not that she'd ever honor it) by publicly swearing loyalty to Dany, even when literally saving humanity was on the line.

Jon said "When enough people make false promises, words stop meaning anything. Then there are no more answers - only better and better lies."

And Jon's even more of a boyscout than Ned in that he can't keep this new secret. If he swore loyalty to Dany he's not gonna backstab her through means of some elaborte plot orchestrated by her own advisor.

>If varys is driving dany to “madness” by orchestrating
>scenarios (ambush killing rhaegal)

Again, Varys was on one of those ships, man.

>We’ll see soon enough though... everything I am saying could
>be bullshit in a few hours

i mean we're all wrong about everything that's gonna happen so yeah.
208985, also either way, i have to re-state. Fuck Varys
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 04:41 PM
seeking out Dany and working for her was his fuckin idea
208986, She appeared to be good leader with the right ideals
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-13-19 01:31 AM
It's not as though he knew that he'd wind up watching her temperament grow into someone who was likely to become a monster
208987, Yeah he was right. I was wrong lol
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 12:48 PM
208988, I'm bummed about that. Kinda wish you were correct on this
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-13-19 12:52 PM
208989, Lol well I sure nailed this one
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 11:55 PM
I'm
>also not sold on Dany's inevitable heel turn. I think it's a
>tease.
>
>
208990, Cersei sent Qyburn to Bronn with the offer, so she did issue the order.
Posted by Pete Burns, Sun May-12-19 02:54 AM
>Going back over qyburn telling bron to kill tyrion and jamie
>and it seems weird that he issued the order not cersei. She
>has had every opportunity to kill her brothers but hasn't..
>



Qybrun interrupted Bronn with the prostitutes and says that Cersei told him to hurry.

The reason we don't see her tell Bronn in person is the same reason we've never seen Bronn and Cersei interact ever.

Jerome Flynn and Lena Headey used to date and it would appear it ended badly, hence, no scenes together.
208991, I had to crack up when Sansa asked Tyrion "Why her?"
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 04:40 PM
and then motioned up

to the lady in the sky riding a dragon
208992, Its been a great ride...
Posted by CyrenYoung, Sun May-12-19 05:34 PM
..watching so much speculation over this series has been hilarious.

Its been extremely difficult not spoiling this series, but clearly tonight's episode will put several theories to rest.

*Kudos to everyone truly paying attention to detail. I'm actually gonna miss watching for clues in the opening credits.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...
208993, Wow!!! Fuck Dany.
Posted by bwood, Sun May-12-19 09:26 PM
Varys and destroying King's Landing is so foul.

Also, the witch's prophecy didn't cone true for Cersei.
208994, foul my ass
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:28 PM
>Varys and destroying King's Landing is so foul.
>
>Also, the witch's prophecy didn't cone true for Cersei.
208995, RE: foul my ass
Posted by bwood, Sun May-12-19 11:26 PM
>>Varys and destroying King's Landing is so foul.
>>
>>Also, the witch's prophecy didn't cone true for Cersei.
>

So I guess your cool with the slaughter of thousands of innocent people!
208996, RE: foul my ass
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 11:34 PM
>>>Varys and destroying King's Landing is so foul.
>>>
>>>Also, the witch's prophecy didn't cone true for Cersei.
>>
>
>So I guess your cool with the slaughter of thousands of
>innocent people!

The let bastards, incest lovers rule them, forgot or didnt recognize the dwarf who won a previous battle/war for them, etc etc. And probably would have been lookin at the unsullied with disdain later , let mesendei up there with her hair wet etc. Fuck kings landing.
208997, The common people pray for rain, health, and...
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 11:53 PM
...a summer that never ends. They don't care what games the high lords play.
208998, ^^^^^^^^^^^
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 10:58 AM
208999, Why? the penalty for treason is death
Posted by j., Mon May-13-19 08:34 AM
If she didn't turn Varys into extra crispy
it's a signal that conspiring against her rule and making cause with rivals is ok

As for turning KL into ashes
she was only fulfilling her destiny
209000, I don't condone it, but I understand Dany
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun May-12-19 09:28 PM
209001, Nah. She's an entitled asshole. Hope she dies
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun May-12-19 09:33 PM
Passed off her liberation as being some messiah when really she just wanted an army and power
209002, Arya is coming for that ass.
Posted by legsdiamond, Sun May-12-19 09:48 PM
209003, Nah, Arya's done with all of this.
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 10:32 PM
She's sick of being an instrument of death and doesn't want to end up like The Hound.
209004, until she saw the mother and child burned up
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:36 PM
>She's sick of being an instrument of death and doesn't want
>to end up like The Hound.
209005, I think that hammered the point home more than anything.
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 11:10 PM
She wants no more parts of this.
209006, you may be right
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 11:30 PM
but she probably thinks D as the cause for all this death in KL (instead of Cercei) that needs to be stopped for real peace and rule by Jon

>She wants no more parts of this.
209007, Nah. She could’ve went straight to the Castle and killed Cersie
Posted by legsdiamond, Sun May-12-19 09:39 PM
I don’t understand burning the city down over one beheading and Jon’s secret.

That bish is just like her daddy.
209008, fuck kings landing
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:29 PM
>I don’t understand burning the city down over one beheading
>and Jon’s secret.
>
>That bish is just like her daddy.
209009, word. Burn.It.All.Down
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:28 PM
>
209010, I mean I understood her "fuck it" to a degree
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 11:50 PM
but..
209011, I understand framing it as she was betrayed by everyone.
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 01:53 AM
The North, Jon, Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys. Only person that she can trust that's left is Grey Worm and Drogon. So, "fuck it, burn them all and rule by fear" make a little sense in terms of story. But it was still too extreme.
209012, You understand the unnecessary murder of thousands of innocent civilians?
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-13-19 01:21 AM
After she had already won?

And when she could have simply destroyed the red keep?

You understand those things?
209013, only way i can explain it to myself was love
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 03:51 PM
she actually fell for jon and when he "betrayed" her that was it. i dont think she wanted to do this from the beginning. shes been pushed in this direction. if jon would had never told her i think she would of held it together. once jon told her then didnt heed her warning about telling sansa and arya she was done. she had lost everything basically.

i saw a meme where they showed dany walking in the throne room when it was snowing back in the early seasons. turns out the snow was really dust.

this episode had me excited to see them winning, they destroyed euron and all the crossbows and that golden army. they had cersei corner, justice was coming.

then dany lost it. i guess in her head she saw this was the only way for her to maintain control.
209014, ok i died laughing at Qyburn's whole brain exploding out
Posted by shygurl, Sun May-12-19 09:34 PM
(I ain't shit, but it honestly was unexpected)

By far, that and Arya's and the Hound's tender moment was the best part of the episode. Beyond that, this episode was disappointing just like the rest of the season.
209015, Hope isn’t a plan Cersie
Posted by legsdiamond, Sun May-12-19 09:36 PM
I knew Dany was going to go HAM but I didn’t think she was go THAT far.

I think Arya takes her out.
209016, she's dead i thought?
Posted by shygurl, Sun May-12-19 09:52 PM
Her and Jaime crushed below the Red Keep?
209017, when she was in the high castle thinkin things would work out
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:38 PM
>Her and Jaime crushed below the Red Keep?
209018, That’s why she’s dead.
Posted by legsdiamond, Sun May-12-19 11:13 PM
She ain’t have no plan. Just hope and dreams.
209019, This shit needed to be 10 episodes.
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun May-12-19 09:38 PM
209020, RE: This shit needed to be 10 episodes.
Posted by bwood, Sun May-12-19 11:35 PM
Yeah they needed two more character based episodes to make the character arcs soar
209021, I will take what is mine with fire and blood
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun May-12-19 09:46 PM
All the people on the internet complaining were just ignoring everything she said all these years. It was always her way or no way at all.
209022, Basically no reason to bring all those soldiers to KL
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun May-12-19 09:50 PM
This show i swear
209023, at this point it's a hate watch.
Posted by shygurl, Sun May-12-19 09:51 PM
I genuinely wish the Night King had won.
209024, she trying to get her moneys worth out of those northerners
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun May-12-19 10:00 PM
she paid one....maybe two dragons for them
209025, imagine if she had shown up at night lmao
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun May-12-19 10:01 PM
would be a 10 minute episode
209026, Thinking on this, and damn that's a genius idea.
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 04:14 PM
Dragons gotta have better night vision than humans, she coulda came at night, destroyed the ballistas, and come back and wrecked shop the next day with just the single dragon. Smh
209027, Dany has to be the one to see them not the dragon though
Posted by MiracleRic, Thu May-16-19 03:02 PM
209028, The hell did I just watch nm
Posted by snacks, Sun May-12-19 09:52 PM
209029, A fucking mess with a lot of bad and some good.
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 09:52 PM
Haven't read a lot of the responses yet, so there may be some duplication.

The Bad:

1. Jesus Fucking Christ have they made Tyrion dumb. And non-sensical. So he's right about how the city will fall, but he sends Jamie to ONE LAST TIME to appeal to her humanity? (which of course she doesn't realize until after Dany has started completely destroying the city) And this is of course immediately after Dany says "DON'T BETRAY ME AGAIN."

2. The Dany heel turn felt so fucking forced. And I thought it had been ham-fisted before. And it made absolutely zero sense. Making her "rule by fear" by seeing the city defenses destroyed and then destroying the Red Keep would have made sense. This was just forcing a square peg into a round hole.

3. Cersei again was the cartoon character that they'd worked so hard to not make her.

4. The Grey Worm shit was too ham-fisted as well. As was Jon realizing that he needs to be a leader and finally "wanting" the Iron Throne. Turning it into a tragic love story is going to be so fucking dumb tho.


The Good:

1. The Hound vs. The Mountain was good enough action. Not quite the epic fight that was envisioned, but fighting at the end of the world has some cool stuff.

2. After nearly eight seasons, they finally show what the point of the books are: THAT WAR FUCKING SUCKS. They are no heroic wars over crowns. It's all ugly and bloody and unheroic.

3. Having Arya watch the horrors of war and realize that she doesn't want to be a killer anymore was well done.


Both the bad pretty much out-weighted the good here. Or certainly the worst of the bad was greater than best of the good.
209030, Tryion was at least dead on about who'd win
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 10:11 PM
because I wont lie, I thought Qyburn had a point last week

his appeals to Cersei were ridiculous tho
209031, If they'd have left it at that, they'd have been fine
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 10:20 PM
Been the whole, "Free Jamie so he can either appeal to Cersei's humanity yet again and failing that run away and live happily ever after in Essos" is just dumb beyond words.
209032, Arya has been the best character this season
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 10:13 PM
she's the only one i can point to and say I like what they've done with her
209033, thinking about it, I actually agree
Posted by shygurl, Sun May-12-19 10:24 PM
Her character has been the one most in line with the previous seasons of development at least.
209034, Yeah. well, her and Drogon
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 10:29 PM
>Her character has been the one most in line with the previous
>seasons of development at least.
209035, They've been good with her and pretty much Jon
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 10:27 PM
For Arya, they brought her to the logical conclusion where she realizes that she's sick and tired of being around death. I honestly think they're even going to have her go back to Gendry. She doesn't have to be a "lady" but she doesn't want to The Hound either.

And is much as a drip Jon can be, they've been remarkably consistent with his characterization. Everything more a less feels logical, as self-serious as he is.

I'm hoping that the show ends with him going back to the true North. He takes out Dany, (probably after she threatens to destroy Winterfell; she's not going to let Sansa's betrayal stand), melts down the Iron Throne, sets up a representative government. Then he goes beyond the wall to live with the Free Folk and Ghost, where he's neither a Stark or Targaryen.
209036, Jon too except for the Ghost thing
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 03:39 AM
209037, Cosign, particularly this part
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 09:19 AM

>2. After nearly eight seasons, they finally show what the
>point of the books are: THAT WAR FUCKING SUCKS. They are no
>heroic wars over crowns. It's all ugly and bloody and
>unheroic.
209038, I don't think Arya is done killing.
Posted by WarriorPoet415, Mon May-13-19 09:42 AM

>3. Having Arya watch the horrors of war and realize that she
>doesn't want to be a killer anymore was well done.
>

She was definitely shook. That was evident. But then they showed a lot of shots of her reacting to the suffering.

And then she rides off on a pale horse. And we all know that Death rides a pale horse. Kinda obvious symbolism.

I think she might have a few more deaths in her. Maybe Dany and Grey Worm (whom she would presumably have to go thru to get to Dany) and then she goes and chills out with Gendry.


______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.
209039, i liked the hound vs the mountain
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 03:56 PM
i was expecting to be disappointed because there was so much built up to it. i thought it delivered, tragic to see the hound have to go by pushing himself into fire.

cersei got off easy. i hope they show her suffering in the rubble some in the last episode.
209040, What a nice coincedence that Euron finds Jaime.
Posted by shygurl, Sun May-12-19 09:55 PM
Out of all the spots to wash up on shore he just happens to waltz right into Jaime.
209041, was that a contractually obligated scene wtf
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun May-12-19 10:05 PM
like they could have left that dude dead after getting blasted with dragon fire


209042, That would have been a perfect end
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 10:10 PM
Revenge for killing Rhaegal. Showed off the rip that it was over for all of them.

I don't know why we needed a fight between Euron and Jamie. Not like there's some long-cooking hash that they need to settle. The two people that Cersei has fucked fighting over her, I guess?
209043, that scene was completely pointless except for the punchline smh
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun May-12-19 11:40 PM
the mortal wounds he inflicted on jaime had zero effect on anything else

i wonder what the actors are thinking as they are filming this how random it is
209044, dumb dumb dumb
Posted by shygurl, Sun May-12-19 10:11 PM
The scene was pointless, and all it did was show how Jaime could magically grow a kidney back after being thrashed by Euron. Fucking useless.
209045, lol @ grow a kidney back
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 03:58 PM
them adultneys back

*rimshot*
209046, Jaime is more indestructable than The Mountain.
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:42 PM
>Out of all the spots to wash up on shore he just happens to
>waltz right into Jaime.
209047, 2 abdomen wounds and waltzing around the red keep
Posted by j., Mon May-13-19 08:39 AM
Damm near one last dance with Cersei
FOH, lazy ass stupid fucking writers
209048, Seriously.
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 02:03 PM
Jamie, now with a massive stab wound in his side and missing both kidneys still manages to make it from the shores of blackwater bay into the red keep and finds cersei.
That was fucking terrible.
209049, Euron is everything bad about this season
Posted by will_5198, Sun May-12-19 10:55 PM
he just personifies the laziness, lack of direction, and stupidity of it all
209050, For me this was the worst thing in the episode
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 04:21 AM
just awful
209051, Of All the Places to Wash Up on the Shore
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-13-19 06:16 AM
was this season's code name before it got out of spec and into production, like when they called the XBox One "Durango"

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
209052, That was so damn corny
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 09:16 AM
209053, LOL @ the Golden Company
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 10:12 PM
209054, Should have broken their contracts
Posted by mrhood75, Sun May-12-19 10:21 PM
At least the elephants didn't get killed
209055, Good thing they didn't waste their elephants.
Posted by stravinskian, Sun May-12-19 10:22 PM
209056, LOL I JUST tweeted that
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 10:24 PM
209057, that fight between The Hound and Varys tho
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun May-12-19 10:25 PM
209058, Yeah.Burn.It.All.Down
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:27 PM
209059, Night King kinda seems like a nice guy now
Posted by makaveli, Sun May-12-19 10:27 PM
209060, lol..but cersei could have saved everyone
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:31 PM
>
209061, Destruction of KL was dope. Entire rest of episode was TRASH.
Posted by PROMO, Sun May-12-19 10:31 PM
And I've been one to defend Benioff and Weiss over these last two seasons even up and until last week's episode.

But this? C'mon man.

209062, nope..yall are HAF..yall want Sopranos ending shit
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 10:35 PM
>And I've been one to defend Benioff and Weiss over these last
>two seasons even up and until last week's episode.
>
>But this? C'mon man.
>
>
209063, i haven't seen ONE episode of Sopranos. shut up.
Posted by PROMO, Sun May-12-19 11:07 PM
i want and ending where the characters actually do what their past 7 and half seasons of motivations say they should do.

i don't want showrunners mailing it in. two main characters who've been hinted at having epic deaths die under falling rubble? as someone joked on Twitter, a shoddy contractor killed them and the hero of finale will be insurance.

what's really sad is they could have took 4 or 5 more seasons to finish this without rushing it and NO ONE woulda been mad.
209064, lmao..4 or 5 seasons more...
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 11:26 PM
The letshategot bandwagon has bald tires

everythng that was set up in the last season and this has been set up and people have done what they will

Danys heel turn..understandable

Tyrion being less sensible: undersanfable as he is duped with Dany's ideals initally

The Hound having to settle thigs between his sibling: happens

Sansa becoming hardened and somewhat wosened due to whats shes been ..

ah fuck it

fuck the wagon, join the band especially since ya hung on THIS far (the last episode to go lolol)



>i want and ending where the characters actually do what their
>past 7 and half seasons of motivations say they should do.
>
>i don't want showrunners mailing it in. two main characters
>who've been hinted at having epic deaths die under falling
>rubble? as someone joked on Twitter, a shoddy contractor
>killed them and the hero of finale will be insurance.
>
>what's really sad is they could have took 4 or 5 more seasons
>to finish this without rushing it and NO ONE woulda been mad.
>
209065, this is more like if the Sons of Anarchy writers finished the Sopranos
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 03:36 AM
209066, what a load of fucking bullshit.
Posted by will_5198, Sun May-12-19 10:54 PM
bringing up all the bad writing, stupid plot vehicles and de-characterization of this season is exhausting.
209067, Tall knew it was going to be war and destruction. Stop crying.
Posted by legsdiamond, Sun May-12-19 11:18 PM
209068, for real..they want the Seventh Seal
Posted by rdhull, Sun May-12-19 11:21 PM
>
209069, i don't think anyone is mad about that.
Posted by PROMO, Sun May-12-19 11:34 PM
it's the rest of it.
209070, that was the cool part
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun May-12-19 11:47 PM
off the top of my head the things that have been pretty silly

anything involving jaime

anything involving tyrion

anything involving euron

209071, Have you have held a nuanced opinion about anything? Anything at all?
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-13-19 01:24 AM
Just one opinion that wasn't some oversimplified, dry ass black & white hot take?
209072, you wait in convenient store parking lots to fight people
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 05:24 AM
stop acting like you are some deep thinker.
209073, 1. False. 2. You being a basic bitch has zero to do with me
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-13-19 11:14 AM
>stop acting like you are some deep thinker.

This has what to do with your Simple Sam take on everything, always?

Do you think that what I do or don't do magically changes the easily observable fact that nearly every opinion you Express on nearly every subject is consistently simplistic, low-common-denominator nonsense?

209074, LOL the fact i read this as inconvenient made it funnier
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 04:25 PM
209075, I don't think it's the what, it's the how
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 03:06 AM
Dany was on the brink obviously, all you really needed was something, or some moment to make her snap and push her over the edge. instead she did it after the surrender. even if she flamed the red keep, the whole "fuck it" it would have made sense, but she went street by street flaming women and children.

so instead of this complex character they've built, she's a WWE villain.
209076, Yeah, it's exactly this
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 08:44 AM
The story needed her to go form heroic to Mad Queen. That's fine.

This transformation was done sloppily in two episodes. If you're a person who thinks they nailed the execution, fine, but most people are going to disagree.
209077, .
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 08:50 AM
.
209078, I disagree. I don’t think it was 2 episodes.
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 08:59 AM
She has been moving in this direction for a while now.

209079, Her anger at Jon's betrayal/Westeros not embracing her
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 09:11 AM
started last week.

Her using force isn't surprising. Neither is her refusal to listen to Tyrion. And again, this isn't even a bad place for the show to end up. But if this had been a normal show, we would've seen her actually evolve to this point, instead of having the show tell us "she's sad and burning people now." Even a couple of episodes where this was allowed to breathe would've helped a lot.

I get they only had so many episodes to shove a ton of plot into and everything has felt rushed. But they didn't execute this well.
209080, Everyone has turned on her
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 09:25 AM
and the one “joy” in her life lately turns out to be her nephew and the true king.

So on top of that she lost a dragon, old dude in the battle is Winterfell, a shit load of Delthraki, Missandrei... and Tyrion and Varys betrayed her.

it’s been a bad couple of weeks for her.

but she has been headed in this direction for a while now. She has been pretty ruthless in her quest for dominance.

209081, I disagree. What I love about it is how it's been under the surface
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-13-19 11:19 AM
for the entire length of the series. Even when the writing was good and more closely based on Martin's story.

Dany always had a way to make us love her despite doing terrible things, or good things for ambiguous reasons. They showed us her humanity, her struggles, but also her gleeful lust for vengeance. The gleeful vengeance against Viserion was set up in such a way that we naturally thought it was justified. The gleeful vengeance against the slaveholders was easy to see as justified.

The "breaker of chains" stuff, freeing all the slaves, was masterfully executed to make us see her as a heroic figure, when in fact a big part of it was that she wanted to be adored as a messianic figure. It was right that she freed those slaves, but she wasn't doing it for them. And when she suddenly wasn't adored anymore we saw where her real priorities lied.

Also with surviving being burnt on the pyre. It revealed her as a supernatural being, and since we'd already been coaxed into seeing her as a sympathetic figure, we took it to mean that she was a supernatural force for "good." But one of the things that the story has always tried to tell us is that supernatural forces (like kings) aren't really best understood as "good" or "bad," really they're just more powerful (and sometimes mostly bad, lol).

I'm certainly not happy with how she turned out, just because I personally liked her so much. But I think that's the point! And I think a lot of people (not necessarily you; I just mean a lot of the people I've talked to and seen talk about it online) are misunderstanding their disappointment in the character as disappointment in the writing. (A lot of the writing now IS dumb, but this, I think, has been telegraphed for quite a long time.)

Also, the feminist in me cringes a bit that the "chosen" queen gets turned into a monstrous character, to destroy another monstrous female character, all to the apparent benefit of a sometimes feckless man whose main strategy in life is to know one's place. But at this point it's pretty clear that Jon's not gonna end this with much glory either. I think he just gives up on Westeros and goes north to reunite with Ghost, maybe serving as some kind of guard for Bran as he lives under a tree. Arya and Sansa seem to be the ones "winning" the game of thrones, though Sansa's just gonna be queen of the North (the only Kingdom left anymore) and Arya's just gonna live as an anonymous nobody.
209082, How bout Cers tries to escape and she flames whole city to get her
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 10:39 AM
Then its still just as barbaric and morally bankrupt, it still shows her for the cruel nut that she is, but it feels a bit more attached to her long-established thirst for power, revenge, etc...not just "oh her brain apparently malfunctioned"

And then you can incorporate her mental illness into it all by her *thinking* she keeps seeing Cersei on another street over and over again, so she keeps torching everything chasing a hallucination, and willing to sacrifice humanity for her selfish mission, meanwhile Cersei has already escaped/died.
209083, I think Dany was done at that point
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 10:53 AM
She should’ve and could’ve gone straight to Cersie but she was on slow scorched earth shit.

She came looking for a fight. A quick surrender prolly had her like naaaah bitch. When I wanted mercy for Missandei I got nothing...

No mercy for you.
209084, They begged for mercy for Missandei and Cersie chopped her head
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 10:55 AM
So fuck them bells.

- Dany

209085, She knows Cers doesnt GAF bout those ppl. They're bystanders.
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 11:36 AM
.
209086, Yeah, Dany wanted Cersei to spend some time fucking terrified
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-13-19 11:39 AM

and feeling absolutely powerless.

And she clearly succeeded.

It's movie villain logic, but that's always been a part of this story.
209087, If I'm George Martin I'm walking around dicks out
Posted by shygurl, Sun May-12-19 11:58 PM
Cause at this point no matter what I write, no matter how bad it is, it can't be any worse than the tv series. I'm feeling myself something lovely if I'm George R. R. Martin.

He gets the money from the show, and the accolades (and money) from the books. He is soooooo good.
209088, Well, honestly I blame him for the show being this bad
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 12:01 AM
If he had put out at least one book in the last eight years, B&W would have had a much better template to follow.
209089, fuck it, I'm sure that hbo money was deep
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 12:25 AM
It woulda been nothing but k-holes and orgies for me over the last 8 years if I was him.
209090, all this yet they couldn't afford to have Jon pet Ghost
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 12:56 AM
209091, i was wondering why he didnt pet him
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 04:29 PM
makes sense, budget or lazy graphics folks. they didnt want to bother with a cup, making jon pet him??? nah.
209092, that grey worm/dany scene though smh
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 02:36 AM
Game of Thrones writers: ok so the last representation of the only named black female character is going to be a slave collar

the actor playing Grey Worm, the only other black character that lasted more than a couple of episodes:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c73fca6e7dd077700e8eef1249b3516a/tumblr_inline_om70zfitfd1s49zv4_1280.gif
209093, some things I DID like about this ep
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 04:20 AM
Tyrion and Jamie's last moment together and Tyrion's gratitude for Jamie always riding for him.

Just about everything with Arya and the Hound together. Her calling him Sandor. One of the best pairings on the show. Arya has been the best character this season.

Emilia's acting. She's done a fantastic job with what they've given her.

Tyrion being right about the city falling based on experience. it's the one thing he had zero doubt of.

99% of Everything in this battle before Dany snaps. (Harry Stickland doing a Jon Snow Battle of the Bastards move and then running was just goofy). The way they staged it, watching them rip through these people like cheese, and Drogon destroying the scorpions, the fleet, and their solders. Qyburn telling Cersei. Shit was glorious.

Visually this episode looked incredible, the effects, the staging of the battle, even small things like the Jaimie walking through the Golden company. The shots of Drogon. One of the best looking episodes ever.

Ok, now back to bitching.
209094, Everything except the overall vision balled out this episode
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-13-19 06:23 AM
I was snarky below, but the direction, the acting, the special effects, the music, the sound effects, the makeup, the costuming...


This episode was "litty too titty" © Desus except for the part were it was dumb and ass


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
209095, The North vs Golden Company was weak af
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 09:28 AM
It was like the Golden Company weren't even fucking warriors the way Jon and company were cutting them down. Jon literally walked forward in a straight line and just cut down 4-5 dude without breaking stride.
So... I guess they weren't exhausted from the fucking March down to King's Landing immediately after fighting the Army of the Dead.

And where the fuck did those Dothraki come from? They even told us in the "Inside the episode" that the charge into the wights was the end of those people...

Buuuuuut you pointing out how Arya called him Sandor was a great point. Nice catch.
209096, right, I was like wtf? lol...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 11:18 AM

>And where the fuck did those Dothraki come from? They even
>told us in the "Inside the episode" that the charge into the
>wights was the end of those people...
209097, when Dothraki guy last week took half his guys off the board
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:55 AM
i was like wait, what? Dude did say "we witnessed essentially the end of the Dothraki"

>>And where the fuck did those Dothraki come from? They even
>>told us in the "Inside the episode" that the charge into the
>>wights was the end of those people...
>
209098, Drogon took out most of the Golden Company first
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 02:10 PM
with a collapsing burning wall. i think if you mix that in with the north having both the unsullied, and dotrhaki on horseback coming straight at you, no one has much of a chance
209099, All cuz Jon couldn't fuck his Aunt.
Posted by walihorse, Mon May-13-19 05:45 AM
I do not understand the moment that Dany had to consider her action just before she started killing eve6. I know she called it, after her scene with Jon, but it still .ake little sense. All because, Jon doesn't live her, every one else is going to fear her? The only thing that can save it for is is she decided to burn all to rebuild, she leaves and give throne up.

Arya, is still my favorite character and I would have raged with she died in the city trying to out run a dragon.

The scene with Tyrion and Jaime was great.
Cercie scene with Jaime was also good, first time she was ever concerned about someone.

At this point I'm in it for the ride. A satisfying ending is not happening. This last ep was so fun, in terms of what was happening and how tense I felt for the people in the city.
209100, Episode 5 thoughts...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 05:50 AM
- the once invincible looking scorpions were apparently worthless with prep time. When this iron Fleet "ambushed" them the first time I kept thinking "why doesn't she just flying around behind them?" I guess she or Jon helped her figure that out.

- I thought Qyburn was going to have one last scorpion stashed when she went for the Red Keep but I guess not. I feel like he got his just desserts from the Mountain. I like how Cersei said "fuck it I'm out" after it was obvious the Mountain was going rogue.

- Are Jamie/Cersei really dead? We didn't actually see their bodies. I kinda hated seeing her go out like that. Letting Arya kill her would've been better. And with all of the conniving Cersei has done she didn't have a plan B? I guess military strategy was one thing she didn't learn from her father. And it appeared that Dany/Jon's Army learned a great deal about military strategy since the battle of the White Walkers.

- Tyrion is useless as a wartime Hand and deserves the same fate as Varys bitch ass. Re-watching it again I didn't realize Varys was talking to that little girl at the beginning about poisoning Dany.

- earlier in this post somebody said "Them dragons aint for shit if you don’t use them. Always getting got", will that last one got used lol. Dany remember Missandei's last words "Dracarys" which basically meant "burn this shit up!" It is funny to me how the dragons could burn with such precision one minute(the Varys' execution) and such reckless abandon the next.

- was the throne destroyed? If not who gets it? Jon and Arya don't want it. Dany and Tyrion don't deserve it. Does that leave Sansa?
209101, Tonight I realized HBO had a Days of Our Lives on its hands
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-13-19 06:01 AM
and they tried to make it into a Sopranos


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
209102, F it, I really liked that episode.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 06:09 AM
It's the first episode in a long time that subverted our moral expectations. The show was great early for priming us for a Hollywood ending then going into a super dark place that actually was sitting there all along.

Dany has been a terrible person. We have cheered her on killing people for a very long time. We've watched her enjoy killing people with a real bloodlust. We've cheered her on because we thought the killings were justified. So it's not a huge leap to think she is justified in burning down king's landing since she has made the decision to rule by fear. If you plan to rule by fear, what better way then burn down a city.

They could have dumbed it down and set it up by her being triggered by seeing her dragon or her home girls head on a pike in the city but I think that would have undermined how cold blooded a decision it was.

Only thing I disliked about that episode was the Euron fight. But Euron never worked.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209103, this is where I'm at
Posted by Jay Doz, Mon May-13-19 07:10 AM
209104, The episode itself was great
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 08:53 AM
This did an even better job placing the viewers in the middle of chaos and hell than the Battle of Winterfell did.

Dany impulsively killing a bunch of people because she couldn't fuck her nephew is never not going to be silly, though.
209105, Nephew ain’t as loyal as she thought.
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 09:11 AM
209106, he was the first man to reject her and she couldn't handle it
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 09:15 AM
209107, It wasn't because he rejected her.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 09:43 AM
The way I see it is she was still open to the option of getting with Jon and she would be queen and he would be King. It's the choice Varys and Tyrion discussed. It's the only way she could contain the peoples love of Jon Snow. When he rejected that option, she explicitly made the choice to rule by Fear.

I don't see her burning the city as an act of passion, I think it was a cold-blooded decision as part of her deciding to rule by fear exactly like when she roasted the Tarlys for not bending the knee.

Things are set in motion that her since of justice and being the rightful queen requires her to do. Like now she HAS to kill Jon Snow because he betrayed her and she is the biggest threat to her throne. She has to kill Tyrion because he betrayed her and she warned him not to fail her again.

I think this is all build up to the theme that to run shit you have to be a Tyrant and do all sorts of terrible things, that's why Jon doesn't want to be the King.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209108, Dany wasn’t upset about not fucking
Posted by calij81, Tue May-14-19 10:51 AM
Jon broke up with her, he rejected her. Once he rejected her he became a threat to the throne. If he decided to stay with her, they could have been king and queen together and he wouldn’t be a threat and she would have felt safe/secure. They could have been the good king/bad queen of Westeros.
209109, 100%
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 09:06 AM
Man, the shot with The Hound and The Mountain with the Drogon flying over it was fantastic.

I loved everything about this episode except for the Jamie fight with Euron. That shit was cheesy. How does he let Jamie crawl to his weapon? “I killed Jamie Lannister” as he walks away from you
209110, stands in this line
Posted by jdub1313, Mon May-13-19 09:45 AM
think i gave up after episode 2 of this season. just make it entertaining and don't fuck the characters off too much.

I'm enteratined. annoyed at how they did Missandei but Dany got vengeance for her so hey.

what a wonderfully shot episode, i can't wait to watch it again. i felt the terror from every angle they showed Drogon. I was in the alley's, i was high up in the red keep, i was on the ships. fucking frightening stuff. had the surround sound turned all the way up.
209111, Are you saying Dany always been a worse person than Cersei?
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:16 AM
because now she is

>Dany has been a terrible person. We have cheered her on
>killing people for a very long time. We've watched her enjoy
>killing people with a real bloodlust. We've cheered her on
>because we thought the killings were justified. So it's not a
>huge leap to think she is justified in burning down king's
>landing since she has made the decision to rule by fear. If
>you plan to rule by fear, what better way then burn down a
>city.
209112, No. But people have been giving her a pass for a while
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-13-19 02:44 PM
Ive even seen female friends of mine on facebook trying to justify what she did. I can tell they are just venting out of frustration because she was THEIR choice and they cant handle it. But signs have been there all long, they just needed more episodes to let it breathe and feel real
209113, fair enough, but i think to say she's been this person the whole time
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 03:08 PM
oversimplifies becuase kinda implies that she's always been the most evil person on the show and kind of tears away from her being a tragic figure who finally fell to her worst impulses. Cersei has been a malignant cunt from day one, but even the worst thing she ever did (blowing up the sept) had a practical purpose behind it. Dany's out here mass murdering just because, fuck it.

i think a longer season could have fixed this
209114, Her military training was with the Dothraki.....she fights as a Khalessi
Posted by Castro, Mon May-13-19 11:45 AM
I don't understand why folks expect her to act like a Debutante.
209115, What about all those kids who got named Khaleesi?
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-13-19 08:08 AM

Are all their parents gonna change their names to Arya now?
209116, If I were to have a daughter Daenerys would still be in play
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 08:48 AM
209117, This "battle" was much better than the Night King one
Posted by j., Mon May-13-19 08:47 AM
not so much a battle when it's a flamethrower against knives
but the shots, the cinematography, the aftermath, all of it was on point
Cleganebowl delivered, and was about the only foreshadowed scene that did
Cersei and Jamie dying on some one last dance shit was corny, contrived, and lazy predictable trope writing
Euron sticking Jamie TWICE in the abdomen and Jamie walking it off was hot garbage
Everyone complaining about Dany must have missed 8 seasons of
"I was born to RULE!" "The Iron Throne is MINE!"
FOH
209118, The Dany frustration is weird.
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 09:14 AM
Reminds me of the Sansa uprising after her wedding night.

It’s like folks have an idea of how these people should turn out that doesn’t really respect the history of the show.

Dany just like her daddy.

209119, But the show hasn't shown why her daddy was mad
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 01:12 PM
It's a pretty fascinating tale. His reign as king actually started out pretty good. But as his wife kept having miscarriages and his relationship with his hand, Tywin, deteriorated, he began to lose it more and more. And THEN he was kidnapped and held prisoner by one of the powerful families in the realm, who planned to execute him. I think that was really the point of no return for him. He became super paranoid, didn't trust anyone around him, didn't leave the red keep for years. That's when he started burning his perceived enemies and traitors, and feuding with his eldest son (Jon's daddy), and then eventually killed Ned's father and older brother, kicking off Robert's Rebellion.

He wasn't always the mad king, his descent into madness was a gradual one. Not like Dany's 3 episode swing.
209120, interesting. thanks for this
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 01:33 PM
>It's a pretty fascinating tale. His reign as king actually
>started out pretty good. But as his wife kept having
>miscarriages and his relationship with his hand, Tywin,
>deteriorated, he began to lose it more and more. And THEN he
>was kidnapped and held prisoner by one of the powerful
>families in the realm, who planned to execute him. I think
>that was really the point of no return for him. He became
>super paranoid, didn't trust anyone around him, didn't leave
>the red keep for years. That's when he started burning his
>perceived enemies and traitors, and feuding with his eldest
>son (Jon's daddy), and then eventually killed Ned's father and
>older brother, kicking off Robert's Rebellion.
>
>He wasn't always the mad king, his descent into madness was a
>gradual one. Not like Dany's 3 episode swing.
209121, It’s not 3 episode tho
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 01:50 PM
She has lost 2 dragons and had some embarrassing L’s listening to her advisors.

She’s impatient.

She isn’t good at politics.

All she is really good at is burning shit up.
209122, Agreed on the battle
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 09:15 AM
This was hands down the best example of how this show can make the absolute brutal and hellish nature of war feel real. Everything about Arya on the ground trying to escape the destruction was masterfully shot.

I don't think anyone is mad at Dany being bad.
209123, I wish the show would have been brave enough to kill Arya
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 09:17 AM
I knew they wouldn't be. But I would've appreciate the realism if she had died in the destruction like everyone around her.
209124, My predictions.
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 09:38 AM
Arya kills Dany and her Dragon
Jon kills Greyworm
Jon gives up the crown
Sansa rules from the North




209125, I could see those happening
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 09:58 AM
I definitely think Jon breaking up the seven kingdoms is happening.
209126, I don't think anyone even needs to break them up.
Posted by stravinskian, Mon May-13-19 11:48 AM

The unified "seven kingdoms" is just done (assuming something happens to Drogon, which it fucking better!). After what happened in King's Landing nobody is gonna follow anybody. LEAST of all Jon Snow, who was there leading the charge, and whose only claim outside of the North is that he's ALSO a Targaryen.


My guess for Jon is that he goes North, gives Ghost a great big expensive CGI hug, and he, Ghost, and Tormund lead a group of Free Folk to defend Bran after he takes up residence in the same tree as the other Three Eyed Raven.
209127, I am with you on two of the 4
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 10:00 AM
>Arya kills Dany and her Dragon

I think Jon does this.

>Jon kills Greyworm

I think Arya does this. I just can't see her getting another Big Kill considering Jon ain't have one this season.

>Jon gives up the crown

Yes.

>Sansa rules from the North

I think the seven kingdoms get broken up with Sansa ruling the North Kingdom.


I also think Dany kills Tyrion which triggers Jon against Dany.



>
>
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209128, I thought about Arya killing Greyworm to get his face
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 10:23 AM
But I think Dany is now on Arya’s list.

and the way Greyworm looked at Jon after he tried o stop them from fighting once they surrendered... ionno. I think they are headed for a nice fight.
209129, Arya killing Dany and/or Greyworm would be awful writing
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 11:37 AM
1. To have her kill both of the Season's "villains" would be the worst type of lazy fan service.

2. It would make her final scene with the Hound pointless. The Hound explicitly tells her "If you become consumed with revenge like me, YOU WILL DIE."

3. If they make it so that the lesson she learned from seeing the horror of war up close is that she wants to go out and cause more death would also make all those scene pointless.

The only way that they could pull it off is if she tries to kill Dany, fails, then gets killed herself. Her killing Dany and then riding off into the sunset would be beyond dumb.
209130, Nah. Ignoring the Hound and going after Cersie would’ve been
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 12:51 PM
but seeing Dany burn women and children is motivation to kill her so it never happens again

Is Dany one of the biggest villains of this season?

209131, That makes Arya even more of a deus ex machina
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 01:34 PM
Popping up to kill the big bads is just lazy and boring.

Plus Jon has to have his big moment this season. That couldn't have him kill both the Night King and Dany. So Arya gets to kill one, Jon the other. Gives him a second "tragic" love story.
209132, Behold a Pale Horse
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 11:01 AM
There is a theory that the white horse she rides is death.

I think she is going after Dany. Maybe Jon beats her to it but I think Arya seeing that child and mother burnt to a crisp and almost getting killed has her on the hunt.
209133, they had a shot with Jaimes right hand in it
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 10:25 AM
https://66.media.tumblr.com/39825d2033703ec8253b158860588278/tumblr_prfq2m89pW1taaev6_1280.jpg

https://66.media.tumblr.com/a3ff67869f1a04dad9910352aa8b64d5/tumblr_prfq2nBN711taaev6_640.jpg

lolllll
209134, I thought I saw that!
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 11:20 AM
209135, They said that was a behind-the-scenes pic...
Posted by ODotSoHot, Mon May-13-19 04:41 PM
That shot isn't in the episode.
209136, That Lost/Sopranos episode was an L for the series
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-13-19 10:38 AM

Arya was indestructible, buildings falling on her and fire couldn't stop her.

The Mountain turned into the Hulk vs Loki with all that throwing the Hound from side to side. Fighting on the steps, nah.

Euron coming out of the ocean and beating Jamie, using a dagger.

Cersei dying because of a crumbling building was worse than Joffery dying from poison.
209137, Joffrey dying from poison was awesome
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 10:50 AM
Mountain Man was on some indestructible shit but he was a Frankenstein so I was OK with it.

Arya was a little over the top but the “if you stay here you will die” and then leading them right into death was some real dark comedy. The hell way she thinking?

I loved the edits between Sandor and Arya tho.
209138, Should have been something equal to Ramsay getting the dogs
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-13-19 11:20 AM
>Mountain Man was on some indestructible shit but he was a
>Frankenstein so I was OK with it.
>

Yeah I had no problem with the surviving stabbings, it was when it turned into the Mountain just throwing the Hound.

>Arya was a little over the top but the “if you stay here you
>will die” and then leading them right into death was some
>real dark comedy. The hell way she thinking?
>

lol and that was the one who helped her off the ground.

>I loved the edits between Sandor and Arya tho.

Oh yeah the trampling she survived I forgot to add that one.
209139, didn't the Hound lose to Brienne?
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 11:41 AM
209140, he was fighting an infection!
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:47 AM
Brienne's got skills but she tended to best people who weren't at their best (Jaimie after being chained up for a year, The hound fighting bacteria)
209141, Yes he did
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-13-19 11:48 AM
209142, i didnt like that
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 04:46 PM
>I loved the edits between Sandor and Arya tho.

i think they were executed poorly. cool idea but it didnt flow well to me.
209143, Joffrey dying from poisoning with perfect.
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 11:39 AM
It was a horrible death that ended him trying to rip his own throat out. And he died thinking Tyrion is the one who killed him. Solidly poetic.
209144, yeah that was awesome
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:43 AM
in front of everyone, and thinking Tyrion got the best of him
209145, Some people said the same about Cersei's death
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-13-19 12:02 PM
that she died hopeless and afraid after her arrogance...

I say nah to both hers and Joffery's.
209146, Dude! Euron swam a few miles in a full leather pants suit...
Posted by bigkarma, Mon May-13-19 12:47 PM
Got out of the ocean and immediately gave Jaime those hands.

Really?

209147, wetter than Eddie Murphy on the trans section of a stroll
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-13-19 12:53 PM
>Got out of the ocean and immediately gave Jaime those hands.
>
>
>Really?
>
>
209148, I don't know. I saw Arya as super vulnerable this episode.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 01:00 PM
She road into town on her horse talking about she was going to kill the queen. At the end she was scampering around like a peasant trying to not get stampede.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209149, she knows who the real enemy is now
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 01:10 PM
and they can’t do shit against that dragon so they better kill its owner.
209150, Aftermath, so how does Dany not immediately kill Jon and Tyrion?
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:28 AM
Is she just assuming they'll be scared enough to fall in line? She obvously can't trust them to be down with the cause.

the fuck do you even do if you're Jon or Tyrion?

Or does Drogon refuse to flame Jon because of who he is? and the Tyrion is a targaryian theory turn out to be true... in the last episode?

209151, I'd love to see Jon slay Drogon
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 11:37 AM
209152, I'll admit i still don't want Drogon to die
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:42 AM
even though he has to
209153, I always hate seeing them get hurt, but dragons are clearly
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 03:20 PM
not compatible with a safe world or being a ruler the ppl trust. The population will always see that thing as a direct threat.
209154, oh you're 100% right but
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 03:31 PM
aww :(
209155, I know lol....they don't know any better
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 03:46 PM
209156, There's no way she wouldn't at least kill Tyrion
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 11:43 AM
But she'll likely imprison him for a later execution and he'll end up surviving.

Jon hasn't explicitly acted against her yet, so she'll give him another chance. He'll kill her when she threatens to destory Winterfell and kill Sansa and Bran.


>Or does Drogon refuse to flame Jon because of who he is? and
>the Tyrion is a targaryian theory turn out to be true... in
>the last episode?

They haven't even hinted at Tyrion being a Targayen the entire series, so I doubt that part happens.

209157, he did touch a dragon that one time
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:48 AM
which is the first time I heard those theories on the internets

>They haven't even hinted at Tyrion being a Targayen the entire
>series, so I doubt that part happens.
>
>
209158, depends on what she knows....
Posted by WarriorPoet415, Mon May-13-19 11:44 AM
Jon really didn't do anything wrong. He told the army to fall back when everything was on fire and buildings were falling. I don't think that'll be seen as betrayal.

He's obviously not down with what Dany did, but he'll need a good poker face in the immediate aftermath.

And as for Tyrion, doesn't that depend of if Dany knows he let his brother go? Did the Unsullied report it? Or maybe if someone finds Jaime's golden hand in the rubble?

Yeah, dude might wanna get on a boat or head north.
______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.
209159, she knows their character tho
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 11:51 AM
enough to know they won't be down with this. she knows Jon's a threat to her as long as he lives. She knows Tyrion tried desperately to save the people of KL, and she knows what she just did.

but yeah, i was thinking one of the unsillied will report him to Greyworm

209160, Jon did something wrong..
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-13-19 11:56 AM
He told Sansa
209161, Will fire even work on Jon?
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 12:52 PM
209162, He got burned back in season 1
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 02:01 PM
Protecting Lord Commander Mormont from a wight.
And Viserys got "burned" in season 1, as well.
That whole "fire cannot kill a dragon" bit seems exclusive to her.
209163, She HAS to.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 01:14 PM
I think that was the point of her saying Jon Snow betrayed her. Fact is he set in motion a chain of events by telling his family about his birthright that would ultimately put him in head to head conflict with Dany. She knew that and that's why she tried to swear him to secrecy.

Now the situation is you have an angry populace and a war hero walking around who is rumored to be the rightful heir to the throne. He is the biggest threat to her rule and she has to try and take him down.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209164, It seems to me that Dany sealed her own fate.
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 01:58 PM
That's why I think her destroying King's Landing was idiotic. She turned any possible ally (except Grey Worm) against her before she even took the crown. They told her there was a new prince of Dorne who supported her, the Iron Islands were with her, the Vale. The North wasn't really fucking with her, but Jon was loyal. Tyrion can no longer support her. Neither can Davos or anyone really. So unless she plans to be with Drogon 24/7, she can expect to be killed. She can never rule legitimately.

209165, Hm.
Posted by sectachrome86, Mon May-13-19 11:43 AM
As someone who just rewatched the whole series, this season just feels a bit cheap. There hasn't been much time to just enjoy the story and characters. Every episode is basically a huge season finale. The rest of the show has been slow, passionate fucking. This season is just hammering away trying to just nut as fast as possible.
209166, https://twitter.com/siregarfaisal/status/1127815729837776897
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 12:22 PM
https://twitter.com/siregarfaisal/status/1127815729837776897
209167, ^^^proof that shit can in fact be turned into gold.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon May-13-19 12:56 PM
209168, cleganebowl was perfunctory, pedestrian, and terrible
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 12:54 PM
So zombie mountain has been nothing but a robot taking instruction from Cersei and Qyburn. At not point in the previous episodes do we see any indication that he has any sense of autonomy or self awareness. There's been no flashes of nostalgia or thought or action towards his previous life.

The Hound shows up, and suddenly he has a perception of being? Enough to disregard orders, kill Qyburn and start fighting his brother? I don't buy it.

One thing the books emphasize that's kinda been lost on the show, is how much of absolute savage the mountain is. It is said that Gregor Clegane raped Rhaegar's wife before killing her, and smashed baby Targaryen against a wall to kill it. He allegedly killed his father and sister to get his inheritance early, and has multiple wives who've died suspiciously. This is a man who was using rats in a bucket to kill men in Harrenhal. Why would he feel any passion or remembrance towards his brother?? Him scarring him is just another footnote in the long list of fucked up things the mountain has done, and I don't see it as enough of a motivation for him to overcome his Frankenstein's monster reality.

Even more importantly though, this series is a series of subverting tropes. Yes, on tv and in the movies the heroic figure is allowed to get his comeuppance against the ones who have wronged him, but that's not real life. Real life is get unfairly bullied as a kid, and the bully goes on to live a successful and happy life. Real life is being head over heels in love with someone, only for them to break your heart in the most fucked up way possible. Like sometimes, often even, there's no justice for doing wrong. There's none! Donald Trump been scamming people for decades, and he's president!! I don't want to see the mountain get killed by the hound, I want to see the hound going to the Red Keep, and get burnt alive by Drogon. I want to see him be so overcome by nerves and emotion he drinks himself into a stupor and misses the entire sack of King's Landing. Something other than what happened smh.

As much as I love the hound, dying a heroic death, with the city falling and a dragonfire beautifully flaring in the background is soooo fucking boring and cliched. Sometimes a bit of fanservice is nice, but in this case it was a bad move.

(and don't even get me started on Sandor's redemptive character development showing him turning away from his Hound persona. This post would be twice as long loll)
209169, I think the Mountain recognizing his brother was spot on
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 01:19 PM
you never forget your arch nemesis
209170, but they weren't arch enemies!
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 01:30 PM
All of the anger and resentment was entirely one sided! The mountain does not give a fuck about the hound, just another figure in his life to torture.
209171, Are you an only child? LOL
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 01:41 PM
209172, actually yes lolll
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 01:57 PM
Why?
209173, sibling rivalries are real as shit.
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 02:28 PM
Anyone who has a sibling close in age will tell you stories about how their sister or brother did some evil shit to them in the 4th grade that they will never forget.

I had a feeling you prolly were an only child since you think it’s just another person he fucked over.

That’s not how it works. If you watched This Is Us they do a great job showing how sibling drama can harm you as an adult.
209174, dr phil here!
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 04:53 PM
i thought you were grasping at straws when you asked her but then she said yes lol
209175, Pops collar
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 02:16 PM
209176, for the record I'm still right lol
Posted by shygurl, Sat May-18-19 07:12 PM
I don't deny at all that the hound feels a lifetime worth of resentment and hatred towards the mountain. The point is the mountain doesn't, this fight is entirely one sided, and his cruelness towards his little brother is no different than his cruelness towards every other person.

IMO the take away from their interactions is that you can be influenced and hyperfixated on one person, and your obsession and hate means nothing. The other person is out here living life and you in a dark room cursing their name and missing out on living.
209177, right, and they had a standoff before at a previous meeting and the...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 01:59 PM
Mountain definitely recognized his brother.
209178, I don't think it was a heroic death.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 01:21 PM
I never understood why NOW he decided he had to kill his brother but I think the point was that he was motivated by revenge and that shit doesn't end well for anyone. He died trying to kill something that was already dead. He mainly served as a warning to Arya.

I wouldn't delve too deeply in the rules of his Frankenstein-ness. It's all magic. That sort of logic is out the window when we see a sword go through his brain.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209179, The symbolism. Hound hated fire for obvious reasons
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 01:43 PM
and got the change to throw his brother into the flames.

It ain’t deep but it’s definitely believable given the backstory.
209180, i liked Cleganebowl but Qyburn deserved a less cartoonish death
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 01:56 PM
.
209181, That actually seemed right to me
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 02:06 PM
After Euron, he was probably the most cartoonishly evil character on the show.
209182, Also, the Mountain just love killing and doing evil shit.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 02:29 PM
I never got the impression that he was this great soldier who was super loyal and did whatever he was told. He just loved doing evil shit like raping and killing and the royals took advantage of that by turning him on their enemies.

In other words, he didn't disobey orders because the Hound was his mortal enemy, we've never seen him turn down a fight and a chance to kill and I don't see why he wouldn't now.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209183, THANK YOU
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 03:32 PM
It was pointless to the story and took way too much time off the clock lol

And i was thinking the same thing about Mountain suddenly having a personality and mind of his own again...same way the NKs smirk annoyed me.

I just wanted to see more of the relevant story. They already created a bottleneck for themselves with this 6-episodes nonsense, and now they're gonna blow that much time on a meaningless battle? Altho i liked the "moral of the story" they were telling with it, and how they interlaced it with shots of Arya choosing life while Hound is trapped in vengeance.
209184, *deep inhale* OMG YES, we are finally nearly done with this shitshow
Posted by double negative, Mon May-13-19 01:15 PM
finally and actually just finished last nights episode a few minutes ago. I dont know how to explain it but I have lost all emotional connection to any character.

essentially....this: https://media3.giphy.com/media/4PvmF62Tl3KLe/giphy.gif
209185, This ep. further solidified how wack their "Long Night" battle strategy was
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 01:45 PM
If you have Dragons, you FUCKING USE THEM. Keep your armies behind the walls, have Dany and Jon torch the army of the dead, and then sort out of the rest.
209186, Yup. One dragon for NK and one to flame the dead
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 02:03 PM
Everyone else stay back and catapult fireballs and shoot flaming arrows

By the time they hit the gate their aren't many left

But apparently you can just re-up on Dothraki so no biggie
209187, Why not fly the Dragon directly at Cersei in the tower?
Posted by bentagain, Mon May-13-19 01:50 PM
I don't understand the strategy of burning your way through the entirety of king's landing

They took out the suped up cross bow jawns

Why burn the whole shit down...when it's one person sitting in an ivory tower...easy destroyed by a dragon...that's the whole issue

Feels like the production value was way higher in this battle than the Night King

?

I think HBO turning the show into a soap opera is a plot to sell more books

...I'm thinking about reading them just to erase this bullshit from my memory...
209188, exactly several times they acted like that was what she was going to do...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 02:01 PM
burning up innocent people in the city made no sense

>I don't understand the strategy of burning your way through
>the entirety of king's landing
>
>They took out the suped up cross bow jawns
>
>Why burn the whole shit down...when it's one person sitting in
>an ivory tower...easy destroyed by a dragon...that's the whole
>issue
>
>Feels like the production value was way higher in this battle
>than the Night King
>
>?
>
>I think HBO turning the show into a soap opera is a plot to
>sell more books
>
>...I'm thinking about reading them just to erase this bullshit
>from my memory...
>
209189, My guess is they're turning her into the Mad Queen
Posted by bentagain, Mon May-13-19 02:05 PM
...and she must be stopped by Jon/Arya...

I'm assuming that's the finale

Also, trying to hook up after she knows she's Jon's auntie...was fucking weird and gross

WTF was that?
209190, RE: My guess is they're turning her into the Mad Queen
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 02:58 PM
>...and she must be stopped by Jon/Arya...
>
>I'm assuming that's the finale
>
>Also, trying to hook up after she knows she's Jon's
>auntie...was fucking weird and gross
>
>WTF was that?

That's how the Targaryens get down, remember her brother fondling her when they first introduced her?
209191, Yup. Dany herself is inbred
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 03:13 PM
and would have likely married her brother if they were still in power

>>Also, trying to hook up after she knows she's Jon's
>>auntie...was fucking weird and gross
>>
>>WTF was that?
>
>That's how the Targaryens get down, remember her brother
>fondling her when they first introduced her?
>
209192, Being that guy again... the way incest is handled in the books is different.
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 03:52 PM
It only seems to really count as incest if it's parent/child or siblings. And among the noble houses, marrying a cousin is fairly common.
Hell Tywin Lannister's wife (Cersei, Jamie, and Tyrion's mom) was his cousin.

Starks also married their cousins. Jon's grandfather was married to a cousin and he's got older ancestors who married Uncle/Niece.
So the show seems to have taken a different approach to this, but it would have been nice to have someone ask Jon and Dany about marriage directly instead of always talking about it behind their backs. To get a real answer from Jon about whether he would have considered it.
209193, I think that's the question. What did she stand to gain by nuking the city?
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 02:13 PM
She can only lose by doing that.
I get ruling through fear. But after doing something like this you're not ruling through fear, you've essentially just made it impossible to ever rule this place, I think.
209194, FWIW, Tywin took King's Landing "for" Robert in a similarly bloody way
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 02:26 PM
It obviously wasn't as destructive (though it could have been if Aerys had succeeded in burning them all), but the Lannister army killed everyone in the path, of all ages, and raped the women for good measure. And after all, Robert still held the Throne until he was killed.
209195, Sacking of a city is still different than the razing of one to me.
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 02:36 PM
Sacking of a city is horrible. This was much, much worse and much more indefensible (King's Landing hand't surrendered prior to the sack). You were right to put the quotations around "for." Tywin's loyalties were still in question as he had refused to join either side until the outcome was pretty clear.
209196, The point was that it wasn't necessary.
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 02:14 PM
As soon as she destroyed the Iron Fleet, the Golden Company, and and all the Scorpions on the city's walls, no one in King's Landing posed anymore more threat to her or her army. But she was pissed that Cersei had killed Missendei and that everyone she trusted had betrayed her, so, fuck it, burn them all. It's a deliberate heel turn.
209197, Shorty said nah, pulled the trigger and stepped...
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 02:23 PM
it was nothing,

She did it just to get a rep

209198, "Real niggas buck in broad daylight, wid a mac that wont
Posted by Errol Walton Barrow, Tue May-14-19 02:09 AM
spray right/ don't give a fuck who you hit, as long as the drama's lit."

Nas told y'all. Besides, her resentment and anger has been buildng for seasons, we didn't notice her violence because she was 'breaking chains'. She been a shooter tho.
209199, I will say, I am not sure why Tyrion would snitch on Varys.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 02:32 PM
Especially since it implicated him. Better pacing and more time (better writing), I think something would have happened to force his hand to rat out Varys.

Freeing his brother I get. But I felt like he would have skipped town at that point. He would have to know Dany wouldn't forgive him.


I just haven't like any decision Tyrion has made in a LONG time.







**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209200, shit, that's the only prediction i got right
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 02:36 PM
209201, The Game is the Game
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 02:44 PM
Sorry. I’m watching the Wire again.

I think he snitched because it would’ve been him getting flame broiled instead.
I also think Varys overplayed his hand because he knew who Dany really was... crazy Dany
209202, Varys basically said he would kill her
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-13-19 02:46 PM
And in the beginning he was trying to poison her with the food and the "she wont eat" conversation. Tyrion still had faith and seeing Varys talking to Jon forced his hand. I bought it
209203, Oh damn. I missed he was trying to poison her. I stand corrected.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 02:52 PM

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209204, They've made Tyrion very, very dumb these last couple seasons
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 04:13 PM
Though Varys DID try and get Tyrion executed back in S4, so he had it coming.
209205, Varys was trying to poison Dany
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-13-19 02:47 PM
I didnt catch it at first but one of my friends pointed it out. The "she wont eat" and "theyre watching me" convo with the little girl.
209206, Good catch. Shit, I totally missed it.
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 02:53 PM
209207, right I didn't catch that until I watched it a second time...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 02:54 PM
>I didnt catch it at first but one of my friends pointed it
>out. The "she wont eat" and "theyre watching me" convo with
>the little girl.
209208, interesting. i didn't put that together
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 03:09 PM
209209, Further evidence it was not a break in character
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 03:14 PM
Why would that ruler who can't trust anyone and threatened from all angles kill all those innocent people? See History.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209210, What do you think she stands to gain through her actions?
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 03:28 PM
this isn't snark, but I'm curious as to your cost/benefit analysis of this situation.
209211, Rule through fear: the authoritarian socialist playbook
Posted by j., Mon May-13-19 03:53 PM
Not only will I hurt you if you even think of rebelling or questioning my legitimacy
I will kill your whole family as well

Fat Joe of all people said it best
"I'd rather be feared than loved cuz the fear lasts longer"
209212, Yup
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-13-19 04:20 PM
"I want freedom for all but if you question me i'll make you disappear."
209213, But why would she go out of her way to strafe over the city
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 04:20 PM
instead of just flying straight to the Red Keep and knocking it down?

If it was tactical, it didn't make any sense, since taking down the Keep was her goal.
If it was emotional, they didn't really do the work showing how she got to that point.
209214, she wanted to terrorize and flaunt it in Cersei's face
Posted by MiracleRic, Thu May-16-19 03:24 PM
that's why people thought she would go straight for the red keep...

nah, she was like...oh you were holding these folks hostage

watch how many fucks i give bitch
209215, Oh, nice catch
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 03:31 PM
209216, Well now I feel dumb for not having picked up on that
Posted by Ryan M, Mon May-13-19 03:57 PM
209217, Totally missed that also
Posted by sectachrome86, Mon May-13-19 04:50 PM
I guess that makes his death sentence seem a little less harsh
209218, i did catch that
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 04:57 PM
209219, Ppl who cheered Mis for "dracarys" yet appalled Dany obliged her lol
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 03:26 PM
209220, right she carried out her girl's final wish but she should've burned up...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon May-13-19 03:31 PM
Cersei and the Mountain
209221, who is that?
Posted by Rjcc, Mon May-13-19 03:34 PM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
209222, But where did this massive crowd of Dany soldiers come from?
Posted by Jon, Mon May-13-19 03:55 PM
I thought the battle of Winterfell was supposed to have left them with scraps, and not only did they seem very numerous last night, but one of the shots for next episode have them looking like you could fill a football stadium
209223, Those are all the understudy Dothraki, I guess
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 04:00 PM
209224, Not only that, but they fought fresh
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 04:04 PM
They didn't come off as people who just got done fighting the dead 3 or 4 weeks ago. Again, super shitty writing.
209225, I hated that shit too.
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon May-13-19 04:10 PM
They were cutting through the Golden Company like cheese. Jon killed like 4 or 5 of them without even breaking stride.
209226, Lol exactly
Posted by Jon, Tue May-14-19 06:48 AM
209227, Would you bring your whole army to the North
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 04:06 PM
209228, Jon & Davos lead the majority of the army down the King's Road
Posted by mrhood75, Mon May-13-19 04:49 PM
They made sure to mention that during the last episode.

The people were at the gates at the end of the previous episode were the remnants of Dany's small fleet that she sent to Dragonstone.
209229, IDK. I think a lot of white women are just made that they made Dany
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Mon May-13-19 04:13 PM
just as awful as everyone else.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/critics-notebook-end-game-thrones-finds-a-way-make-woman-problem-worse-1210104

GoT did not opt for the Girl Power moment in Avengers: End Game (or even Arya killing the Night King) and folks are mad about it.

I am going to stick by the show has always been it's best when we didn't get those moments. I think the show is way more interesting when it asks us, "why have we been soo invested in putting another ruthless despot in power?"

Someone on twitter reminded me that this is the same queen who publicly executed, in Mereen, a half brother Obama looking man named Mossador, whose only crime is an honest misunderstanding of her words.






**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209230, Theyre super mad. Words such a misogynist and patriarchy are popping up
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-13-19 04:21 PM
Lol
209231, overall im fine with the major plot points
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-13-19 04:14 PM
dany going heel

jon's impeding dilemma

arya

hounds path

jaime's whole story line i feel like is one of the worse ones though but still it m akes enough sense for me for a tv show


its more so the "how" we got here

i feel like alot of it was shoehorned in and alot of it was done under the guise of a self imposed deadline which resulted in a rushed and somewhat incongruous dismount for the show.
209232, Yeah, people are setting up strawmen
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 04:23 PM
Nobody's complaining that Dany did bad guy things instead of good guy things.

But the writers didn't show their work in the how part of it. Which was always going to be a tall order given how few episodes they had left and how many major threads they had to wrap up. But it wasn't executed nearly as well as it could have been.
209233, that seems to be the reaction to the reaction
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 04:40 PM
most complaints have been on execution, and much of the reaction to the complaints is to pretend everyone is mad or shocked that Dany broke bad.

and I legit thought the Dany heel turn was a tease but it's not surprising. just clunky.
209234, Curious how long a season is in minutes.
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 06:52 PM
Even though it’s only 6 episodes they are much longer.

I think people are lying to themselves that these episodes are rushed. I think folks are just mad it’s ending and stories are coming to an end.
209235, ya, thats it smh
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-13-19 07:03 PM
>I think people are lying to themselves that these episodes are rushed. I think folks are just mad it’s ending and stories are coming to an end.
209236, To what end?
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 08:15 PM
Why would somebody pretend to have a problem with a TV show that they secretly did not? Just to annoy you?

If having three different characters serve as the series' Ultimate Evil in the last three episodes feels like a normal thing for a show that's definitely sticking the landing, good for you. But nobody is pretending to hate it just to fuck with you.
209237, Nah it's rushed
Posted by Lurkmode, Mon May-13-19 08:21 PM
they want to get on to Star Wars so they can make it worse then it is.
209238, It's not the runtimes specifically, it's the plotlines
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-13-19 09:03 PM
Cersei blew up the sept after two seasons worth of interaction with the High Sparrow and nearly four years (in real time) of sparring with the Tyrells. Jon Snow became the King in the North after nearly five seasons of coming off as the person most well equipped to guard the realm against the threats to come. Hodor was just a guy with a mental illness for six seasons until Bran found the depth of his powers. Jorah was a hero, and a traitor, and an anti-hero, and a tragic figure just through Dany's eyes alone over eight seasons.


This show built its fanbase on actions carrying consequences, but those consequences being doled out over what felt like long stretches of time. The Freys ruled over their lands same as they ever had for several seasons before Arya fed Walder his sons. It's not that the season is more or less brief than previous seasons in terms of on screen action, it's that decisions are being made that provoke actions not just a handful of episodes later but sometimes from scene to scene. Dany's relationships always made sense before this season but her romance with Jon Snow is the equivalent of an arranged marriage between a priest and a burlesque dancer. Tyrion's judgements always carried an air of knowing more than the show was letting the audience in on but now come with an apathetic sigh from that same audience more often than not.


It's not an episode-to-episode problem that this show has, but rather it's asinine compulsion to be over while people were still very, very into the show. I'm on the side of people who think Benioff and Weiss started getting the offers to do other shows, passed the books by and saw a definitive end statement as a way out of Thrones, but I also think they were coming off the heels of two critically acclaimed shows that pretty publicly stated they had fixed endpoints in Breaking Bad and Mad Men and figured it wasn't just a smart move for them business wise but a move that would garner them tons of critical acclaim once they pulled it off. The problem is they aren't, at all.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
209239, I just think it’s impossible to end a series
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 09:17 PM
without upsetting people because they invested so much time into it.

All those moments you speak of that had seasons to build on... there was more show left when they peaked but if we knew it was the last season I bet those moments aren’t as satisfying.

Besides Jamie and Euron I thought this episode was fantastic.
209240, I completely feel you on the investment part
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-13-19 11:45 PM
It makes any kind of letdown more impactful


209241, nah this shit is bullet points vs essays
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 09:08 PM
Wiki page vs a book

Things just happen
209242, Exactly
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon May-13-19 04:23 PM
I have zero problem with the story, besides maybe Jaimie. He should have died after knighting Brienne. My issue is they needed more than six episodes for all of it to work and feel right. The fact that people are saying HBO was willing to give them full ten episodes or even more seasons makes me mad at D and D.
209243, I think Tyrion and Jaime's path have been the most
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-13-19 04:39 PM
unsatisfying for me


i mean i'd love to see more assassin arya and the faceless men

and i'd love to learn more about the mythology of westeros via bran but understand how they really didnt fit into the endgame of the story so much


i feel like they could have done more with tyrion and jaime (and maybe varys) within the confines of the final plot points they are hitting and have it be more satisfying for the audience

oh well we get what we got and the last episode was better than most this season for me

after the battle of winterfell though ive definitely not felt as invested in any of the outcomes here as I did going into the season
209244, I'm clinging to Tyrion's certainty that the city would fall
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon May-13-19 05:00 PM
it was the one thing he was 100% sure of and he was correct.

but his appeals to Cersei's better angels, yikes. even Jaimie had to check him on the love for her children shit.

209245, Yup. You can give me anything, just sell it.
Posted by shygurl, Mon May-13-19 04:38 PM
Every fucking scene this season feels like a burden the writers *had* to put in, rather than something that organically happened.

Ned Stark's death worked because we saw the gradual movements that led to that point. We saw him breaking the unwritten king's landing code, we saw him trusting people he shouldn't have, we saw him getting on the wrong side of the Lannister s, we saw Joffrey with an increasing level of immaturity and viciousness. It worked because all the pieces were there for that final ending, and it was brilliant. All I'm asking is for that same level of care and nuance.
209246, if the first 6 seasons were a gradual tense climb
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon May-13-19 04:43 PM
the last two seasons kinda felt like a tumble down a flight of stairs
209247, that's what I've been saying. the things connecting all these beats
Posted by Rjcc, Mon May-13-19 07:37 PM
just don't work.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
209248, Alright, then...
Posted by CyrenYoung, Mon May-13-19 06:03 PM
..let it be fear © Daenerys Targaryen

She told John the truth. She reluctantly agreed to Tyrion's request (hence, the title of the episode), but we all knew what she really wanted.

Revenge.

Now that she has it, we're all waiting on John's response.

A song of fire & ice, indeed.





*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...
209249, LOL, these silly fucks do not care
Posted by Marauder21, Mon May-13-19 08:25 PM
Honestly, respect to the people in here who thought last night's episode was executed well. You genuinely gave more thought to Dany's motivations and what was going through her mind than the showrunners did.

Seeing the castle that she never lived in (for at least the second time) is what made her impulsively kill thousands of civilians? THAT'S what did it?

Again, the problem isn't Dany is a villain now. I absolutely believe that's the direction she was always going to go eventually. It's that *this* was how they did it that.

https://www.cbr.com/game-of-thrones-daenerys-villain/

Lastly, Weiss made it perfectly clear her descent into madness at the battle of King's Landing was totally impulsive and not premeditated as many believe. "I don't think she decided ahead of time that she was going to do what she did. And then she sees the Red Keep, which is to her the home that her family built when they first came over to this country 300 years ago," he continued. "It's in that moment, on the walls of King's Landing where she's looking at that symbol of everything that was taken from her, when she makes the decision to make this personal."
209250, C’mon yo. In the same article it gives all the other reasons
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon May-13-19 09:24 PM
However, the duo did admit Dany's genocide wasn't always in the cards. "If circumstances had been different, I don't think this side of Dany would have ever come out," Benioff added. "If Cersei hadn't betrayed her, if Cersei hadn't executed Missandei, if Jon hadn't told her the truth, like if all these things would have happened a different way, then I don't think we'd be seeing this side of Daenerys Targaryen."

209251, They're more worried about Confederate making it...
Posted by bwood, Tue May-14-19 05:43 AM
...on air than wrapping this story up properly and logically. These last two seasons needed at least two more episodes to make things click.

It's very clear now that they wanted to wrap it up as soon as possible.
209252, Cersei kills Missandei, plus
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-14-19 08:05 AM
Jon being a dumbass who doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, plus
The Red Keep makes her sad
Equals "obviously time to methodically kill thousands of innocents?"

She was more upset about Jon blabbing to his sisters than she was about the man who raped her in S1 or the men who betrayed her, stole her dragons and tried to imprison her in Qarth?

Again, I buy her as a villain. But they needed to show us how they got from point A to point B instead of just dropping us off at point B and shrugging their shoulders while they speed off.
209253, Jon being a dumbass almost got her killed by Varys
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 08:16 AM
The man who claims he was loyal just showed her he is more loyal to family which puts her whole crown in jeopardy.

Tyrian snitching has also put her in harms way.

She doesn’t have anyone to trust anymore and her best friends head was chopped off

For the last 2 seasons they have shown her getting worse and worse as a level headed queen.

Everyone else around Jon has hinted that she ain’t that nice and refuses to show mercy.

What show have y’all been watching?

209254, ^^^^
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue May-14-19 08:54 AM
All they were saying was seeing the Red Keep was the last straw, not the SINGULAR reason. She's been heading here the last two seasons. All her bad luck and realizing everyone had their own allegiances in the end, the betrayals, losing Jon whom she is in love with after having guys falling all over for her, realizing Westeros will never love her like Esos, realizing she should have just stayed overseas, etc. Red Keep was just the final snap
209255, folks acting like all the other signs were on some dumb shit
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 09:31 AM
Everyone BUT Jon is on some “you can’t trust her, she kinda crazy” steez

209256, ^^^^
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue May-14-19 08:54 AM
All they were saying was seeing the Red Keep was the last straw, not the SINGULAR reason. She's been heading here the last two seasons. All her bad luck and realizing everyone had their own allegiances in the end, the betrayals, losing Jon whom she is in love with after having guys falling all over for her, realizing Westeros will never love her like Esos, realizing she should have just stayed overseas, etc. Red Keep was just the final snap
209257, LOL.
Posted by CyrenYoung, Tue May-14-19 09:26 AM

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...
209258, And that's how we get "burn the whole city alive?"
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-14-19 09:38 AM
A thing she refused to do with the Dothraki (twice.) And in Qarth. And in Astapoor. And in Yunkai. And in Mereen. And in Westeros last season. But now she just had to, even at the expense of her actual goal (taking down the Red Keep?)

I mean, if "Bitch just crazy" is the explanation you're going with, ok. But there's no reason to pretend it was a well executed story.
209259, She didn’t have fully grown dragons to do most of this at the time
Posted by calij81, Tue May-14-19 10:15 AM
>A thing she refused to do with the Dothraki (twice.)

She did burn the Dothraki leadership to death to take over their warriors, she just didn’t do it with her dragons.

>Qarth. And in Astapoor. And in Yunkai. And in Mereen.

She didn’t have fully grown dragons to do burn these places down but she did use her dragons to kill people in these cities.
209260, The Dothraki Khals weren't innocent people
Posted by makaveli, Tue May-14-19 04:19 PM
The had kidnapped her and were going to hold her prisoner for the rest of her life. She felt bad in an earlier season when one of the dragons burned a baby.
209261, She walked out of a burning building naked bro
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 10:34 AM
after burning up all the Dalthraki leaders who were a threat to her crown.

The fuck else you need to know she got that crazy.

On top of that she just saw her best friend and most loyal advisor beheaded.

I understand you want it another way but te more you point out the past the more you prove my point.

She has been getting more and more crazed the closer she gets to the crown.



209262, Those Dothraki weren't a threat to her crown
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-14-19 11:00 AM
They kidnapped her and imprisoned her and kept talking about how they were gonna rape her.

How is that at all comparable to a bunch of unarmed civilians?
209263, I disagree. While they used the threat of rape
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 11:35 AM
They were essentially saying since her husband was dead she wasn’t in charge anymore and was supposed to be shunned.

They were a threat to her destiny.

I don’t think her descent to madness was some crazy heel turn because everyone has been warning of her anger. Tyrion has been begging her to show mercy for like 3 seasons because she has always been heavy handed.

209264, But even then, they had still done something to her
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-14-19 12:18 PM
Nobody in the streets of King's Landing had done anything to her.

Something like this would've even made more sense:

Dany hears the bells, knows this is supposed to mean surrender, but doesn't trust anyone (Tyrion, Cersei, Jon, whoever) and is still seeing red about Missandei, so she flies right at the Red Keep and destroys it (killing hundreds of civilians in the process.) Tyrion/Jon/everyone is horrified at her disregard for the innocent people, she sees it as a cost of doing business when you want to rule Westeros. She still does an unquestionably bad thing, but it's more in line with both her character and the themes of the series. Both of those sides would be right and wrong simultaneously.

Instead she went out of the way to fry a bunch of randos before eventually going to Cersei, because that's something a Mad Queen would do.
209265, Well yeah. I said above she should’ve gone straight to the castle
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 02:27 PM
but the bish gone mad.

I also have other things EYE would’ve done differently but this is the story they are telling and she kept saying she isn’t her daddy because everyone is looking at her on some “she crazy? Yeah... she prolly crazy too”
209266, Yeah, she's always had to be talked out of cruelty
Posted by Cocobrotha2, Tue May-14-19 11:17 AM
And all of those counselors are either dead or no longer trustworthy (Tyrion).

The one big change, though, was that her cruelty was always directed at nobles rather than common people. She always sought to punch "up" rather than down so it is weird to see her lash out at the common people.

I can understand her having an emotional breakdown due to her sense of loss and lack of support by Jon, Tyrion and the people of Westeros (the North wasn't very welcoming so it would hard for her to expect the rest of the country would be better). But lashing out at common people is a big change in personality for her.

The only way I could reconcile it is if, right as she finally won what she's sought for so long, she realized it was pointless. There's no love for her in Westeros (literally and figuratively)... only fear... and the first love she knew was with Khal Drogo.

In the House of the Undying, she saw a destroyed throne room and Drogo and her unborn son. Drogo said he was waiting for but she said she still had to meet her destiny. Maybe the massacre was her deliberately making part of the come true while courting her own death.
209267, When Tyrion asked her to show mercy if te bells rang she didn’t say ok
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 11:48 AM
She looked at Greyworm and said something like “you’ll know when I give the sign”

Greyworm was ready to kill everyone. I think both of them were in some kill kill kill for Missandei.

Hell, Missandei’s last word was fire.

and a Mad Queen isn’t calculated. The reason they are call Mad is because it’s a quick turn from stable to unstable. Everyone been saying g these Targaryens can’t be trusted because they crazy.

209268, RE: When Tyrion asked her to show mercy if te bells rang she didn’t say ok
Posted by rdhull, Tue May-14-19 12:04 PM
>She looked at Greyworm and said something like “you’ll
>know when I give the sign”
>
>Greyworm was ready to kill everyone. I think both of them were
>in some kill kill kill for Missandei.
>
>Hell, Missandei’s last word was fire.
>
>and a Mad Queen isn’t calculated. The reason they are call
>Mad is because it’s a quick turn from stable to unstable.
>Everyone been saying g these Targaryens can’t be trusted
>because they crazy.
>


Even though D is not crazy. It all was spelled out for how she reacted as has been pointed out many times. Folks are just mad that they didnt make 100 episides to get everyone including the dragons, a St Louis Gateway Arch National Park size arc
209269, Yeah, she clearly doesn't trust him anymore
Posted by Cocobrotha2, Tue May-14-19 12:15 PM
And he knew it because he didn't show any confidence that she'd stand down. He was still on edge after the bells rang because he wasn't sure she was going to back off.

>She looked at Greyworm and said something like “you’ll
>know when I give the sign”
>
>Greyworm was ready to kill everyone. I think both of them were
>in some kill kill kill for Missandei.
>
>Hell, Missandei’s last word was fire.
>
>and a Mad Queen isn’t calculated. The reason they are call
>Mad is because it’s a quick turn from stable to unstable.
>Everyone been saying g these Targaryens can’t be trusted
>because they crazy.

We don't know if she's truly "Mad". It will depend on how she tries to justify herself next week.
209270, Well, she looked mad when she did that shit... lol
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 03:39 PM
209271, Jon's always on some James Comey boyscout shit
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 01:04 PM
always short sighted
209272, So why didn’t she go directly at Cersei in the Red Keep?
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue May-14-19 05:36 AM
209273, Cause that would make too much sense.
Posted by bwood, Tue May-14-19 05:49 AM
209274, Because she wouldn't have gone full Mad Queen doing that
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-14-19 08:06 AM
and the story needed her to be a Mad Queen before the finale.
209275, Because the bish gone mad
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 08:18 AM
Cersie didn’t show mercy...

so when she heard them Bells she was like nah... fuck them bells.

He kept saying she wasn’t like her father... and we all know them types. Crazy ass family but they swear they ain’t crazy... while showing signs of that crazy.
209276, lol...
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue May-14-19 08:55 AM
>Cersie didn’t show mercy...
>
>so when she heard them Bells she was like nah... fuck them
>bells.
>
>He kept saying she wasn’t like her father... and we all know
>them types. Crazy ass family but they swear they ain’t
>crazy... while showing signs of that crazy.
209277, she couldn't handle the people of KL not loving her
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 11:58 AM
she always had this fantasy in her head that the people of KL were always waiting for the return of the Targeryans and that she was the chosen one. Her head ballooned from all those previous moments of people worshiping her and this was the big one, because it was her ultimate destiny

Since it turns out no one in not only KL but in Westeros seems to even like her very much she had resigned that it would have to be fear. Tyrion had talked her down but in her mind, you know what, fuck him too, he's one of them, in fact fuck all these people

She lets loose
209278, You can't have an impulsive descent into madness
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue May-14-19 08:59 AM
The word 'descent' itself means it happens over time. You dont just wake up and go "i think i'll be mad now." The show runners are dumb and mispronounce character names, say Samwell has an older brother when Dickon was actually younger, etc. Theyre idiots. She descended into madness over time, it was just more exposed this year. It was not a decision to be mad.
209279, Idk. I just don't give D&D too much credit for that turn.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Tue May-14-19 09:22 AM
I imagine Martin outlined all the plot points and it was their job to write and connect the dots. Just so happens that day that I was watching something on the history channel about the crusades which is filled with sacking and plundering of cities so I didn't see it as a huge leap to decide to destroy a city that you thought would be a threat to your rule in order to keep the rest of your kingdom in line. Martin is big history buff so I could see him seeing it that way.

Again, there could have been easy storytelling fixes to make clear Dany's reasoning but I don't mind not having it (and you got to also allow that next week we will hear from Dany herself her motivation). I just loved that it was a turn I wasn't expecting (while suspecting she would turn out to be the mad queen).

I was just talking to someone about how Hollywood is built very much on giving audiences exactly what they want and one of the best things about early GoT is that it avoided that often...except for the battle of winterfell.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209280, D&D clearly don't know what they're doing.
Posted by will_5198, Tue May-14-19 06:58 PM
they're making up rules to the world (or breaking them) as they go along. jumping from outcome to outcome indiscriminately is just bad storytelling.
209281, yall lemon suckers, please dont watch the next/last episode
Posted by rdhull, Tue May-14-19 11:50 AM
nobody wants to read your moaning and groaning

we get it..you hate what GOT has become in the last 1.5 seasosn

so dtrt okp..dont watch it..because no matter what happens, you are going to hate it

rd talkin to ya here ;-)







>
>
>
>*skatin' the rings of saturn*
>
>
>..and miles to go before i sleep...
209282, IF YOU DON'T LOVE AMERICA GET OUT
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 12:05 PM
209283, lol
Posted by rdhull, Tue May-14-19 12:07 PM
>
209284, Did anyone say they're not watching or anything?
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-14-19 12:11 PM
Some people don't like all the things you do, that's all.
209285, Im telling you not to. It will help yalls blood pressure
Posted by rdhull, Tue May-14-19 12:24 PM
>Some people don't like all the things you do, that's all.
209286, Im here for the backlash to the backlash
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Tue May-14-19 12:31 PM
Every single take I've read of people attempting to re-write with what SHOULD have happened has been awful.

Also think its super premature to talk about how terrible the show is ending ...before it actually ends.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209287, Yeah, we still haven't seen the full season
Posted by Marauder21, Tue May-14-19 12:53 PM
I think you can sense when a season is going off the rails, but it's important to remember it's not the entire story.

Personally, I was not a big fan of the last season of The Shield until that final episode, when they absolutely nailed the ending. But I have doubts D&D are going to do the same thing here.
209288, This happens with every major "thing"
Posted by Paps_Smear, Tue May-14-19 01:06 PM
Every TV Show or movie that could be considered "epic" in scale.

Every video game with multiple parts and a long story driven narrative.

No one is happy with the ending. People get upset because it didn't go the way they thought or wanted it to.

And you're right, when I hear some of these fan rewrites it sounds like the worse thing imaginable.

Hilarious.
209289, Why not attack King's Landing first?
Posted by bentagain, Tue May-14-19 12:01 PM
When it became apparent that Cersei was not going to support the battle against the Night King

Why not Dragon her ass in her tower and make the city bend the knee

The Golden Company threw down their swords pretty quickly

That battle was over faster than desert storm

The whole plan was to bait the Night King

...this would give you alot more bait...

and you would preserve more Dothraki and Unsullied

The way this is playing out...is really stupid, IMO


209290, why was Bil-lay going to keep The Modernairres 'stead of Prince?
Posted by rdhull, Tue May-14-19 12:09 PM
>When it became apparent that Cersei was not going to support
>the battle against the Night King
>
>Why not Dragon her ass in her tower and make the city bend the
>knee
>
>The Golden Company threw down their swords pretty quickly
>
>That battle was over faster than desert storm
>
>The whole plan was to bait the Night King
>
>...this would give you alot more bait...
>
>and you would preserve more Dothraki and Unsullied
>
>The way this is playing out...is really stupid, IMO
>
>
>
209291, Cause maybe that wouldn't have worked and made fighting the night king.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Tue May-14-19 02:04 PM
harder.

This is the sort of second-guessing of the storyline that's just plain silly.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209292, That works both ways
Posted by bentagain, Tue May-14-19 03:01 PM
They could have Lost the battle with the Night King

= Cersei wins

or they could have been so depleted after a W

= Cersei wins

the way it played out...having enough resources to storm the castle the day after the battle...actually feels like the less likely scenario IMO

Dany is doing alladis now to send a message, etc...

She could've done the same before the battle with the Night King.
209293, Wtf does Cersei win if the NK defeated the North?
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 04:06 PM
209294, No No No. The only battle that matter for all humanity was fighting the
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Tue May-14-19 04:26 PM
Night King.

Either scenario the alliance was going to be somewhat depleted for a second battle. So it would not make any sense risking being less ready to fight for the lives of all humanity just to knock Cersei off. The risk is too great.

That's why Cersi had the upperhand. She knew Jon would go North no matter what.

Now everyone is a military strategist as well as a fantasy writer. SMH.




>They could have Lost the battle with the Night King
>
>= Cersei wins
>
>or they could have been so depleted after a W
>
>= Cersei wins
>
>the way it played out...having enough resources to storm the
>castle the day after the battle...actually feels like the less
>likely scenario IMO
>
>Dany is doing alladis now to send a message, etc...
>
>She could've done the same before the battle with the Night
>King.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209295, I didn’t wait 7 years for this bullshit
Posted by bentagain, Wed May-15-19 01:41 PM
You’re taking this very personal (c)

So allow me to expound upon my issues with GOT beyond the ep to ep analysis

7 years of winter is coming

7

...and the epic battle scene, culmination of 7 seasons...wasn’t much of a battle at all.

Walkers took the bait hook line and sinker

The night king might have 30minutes of screen time

Waited 7 seasons for dragons to go dragon

7

Just to find out they’re frail fragile creatures that are easily defeated in battle

Jon has been the king to be for more than a few seasons now

Whether by will of the people or blood

Only to have a power struggle with his aunt in the final season

...should I go on...

These are the days of our lives...
209296, RE: I didn’t wait 7 years for this bullshit
Posted by MiracleRic, Thu May-16-19 03:32 PM
"I didn’t wait 7 years for this bullshit" but they're taking this personal? lmao
209297, Nah that makes no sense. NK was marching through the north
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 03:35 PM
By the time Jaimie dropped the news, the army of the dead was a couple days away. What do you think happens to the entire north if you say let's march the armies to King's Landing instead?

209298, Didn't need an army...Dragon went Dragon
Posted by bentagain, Tue May-14-19 03:39 PM
What did the army do?

There also would have still been 2 dragons

Dany and Jon on Dragons would have taken King's Landing during a lunch break.
209299, a dragon can't hold the city. only destroy it
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 03:58 PM
you're gonna need actual people lol

and dropping a nuke was never the plan
209300, I think you missed the point
Posted by bentagain, Tue May-14-19 04:07 PM
a pre-emptive strike wouldn't be about holding the city

it would be about getting more bodies and resources for the Night King battle
209301, huh?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 04:19 PM
>a pre-emptive strike wouldn't be about holding the city

the dead are two days away. aside from the fleet (assuming they even know where they were) pre-emptively strike what?

>it would be about getting more bodies and resources for the
>Night King battle

Who? When? Again, NK's army is two days away.
209302, so killing people gives you more bodies?
Posted by MiracleRic, Thu May-16-19 03:34 PM
this math is excellent

addition by subtraction...brilliant
209303, Remember when Ned resigned because he refused to help kill Dany?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 12:28 PM
Was Ned Stark ever right about anything?
209304, Them trying to kill Dany put her on this path if we're being real
Posted by mrhood75, Tue May-14-19 12:49 PM
209305, wasn't it always the plan though?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 12:55 PM
also what ever happened to that one guy from S1 who Varys was talking to? He was kind of the go-between who gave Dany the dragon eggs? Dude seemed crucial and just disappeared
209306, I mean, possibly, eventually
Posted by mrhood75, Tue May-14-19 02:30 PM
If you remember, Khal Drogo wasn't all that into the idea of conquering Westeros. Viserys was the only person that was hot to trot to do it. And by the time of the botched assassination attempt, he'd already received his "crown of gold."

It was the botched assassination attempt that really put the battery in Drogo's back. Otherwise, they might have wandered Essos for years. Ned was right that they weren't a threat until they could actually cross the sea.

Also, if they hadn't tried to kill Dany, the Dragons many never have been reborn. Drogo going on a rampage leads to his death, which leads to the rebirth of the dragons, and so on and so forth.

>also what ever happened to that one guy from S1 who Varys was
>talking to? He was kind of the go-between who gave Dany the
>dragon eggs? Dude seemed crucial and just disappeared

Ilyrio Mopatis? Yeah, like a lot of the characters, they just kinda stopped caring about him. Hate to be that guy, but he's a lot more important in the books. A lot of the stuff in Season 5 involving Varys was Ilyrio in the books. It appears they eventually decided to combine the characters (they share a lot of history).
209307, Yeah, i remember it did set Drogo off
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 02:41 PM

209308, What was Varys' plan though?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 04:08 PM
Poison Dany, then what?
How would a coup even have worked? It's not like the Unsullied, Dothraki, and Drogon would be like, welp, i guess we're with Jon now.
209309, If she dead then Jon Snow ends up King whether he wants it or not.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Tue May-14-19 04:21 PM
In fact Varys biggest mistake was curing Jon Snow into the idea that he should be the king instead of Dany.

In fact, I think that scene was only there so there wouldn't be push back from Jon when it was time to roast his ass.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209310, i mean i get that but, the Unsullied/Dothraki/Drogon dgaf
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 04:25 PM
about whatever Jon's title would be. Varys (and also Sansa) didn't even seem to consider this potential problem.
209311, less chances of dragon fire on the masses with her gone
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue May-14-19 07:16 PM
Everyone likes Jon too

Even the Wildlings.





209312, Jon actually has NO following
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 08:21 PM
The Dothraki were extinct but were re-upped. Figure about 4000 unsullied, and of course Drogon. Their only loyalty is Dany. They especially ain't following Jon if they suspect foul play.

The north seems partial to Sansa. They were already frustrated at him for bending the knee to Dany.

The wildlings went home.

And he gave his dog away
209313, They were frustrated before all those zombies showed up
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue May-14-19 09:38 PM
Even Arya came around and said it was a good call. Which is why the Northern army still followed Jon to King's Landing. They still riding for Jon Snow, only the two or three Lords threw a fit before the long night
209314, how long will they stay grateful? his BoB capital didn't last long
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 10:36 PM
because he bent the knee, and Sansa stayed publicly questioning him. They're gonna be happy they won the war, but Dany's gonna want to come for Sansa and its gonna be seen as largely Jon's fault. They also dont wanna be next to get nuked.

209315, Nah. Jon has a lot of juice.
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed May-15-19 06:55 AM
209316, even if we assumed the north will back him, it leaves everyone else
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed May-15-19 12:01 PM
Wildlings ain't coming back. Dothraki and unsullied dont care about that "true heir" nonsense. And you gotta kill Drogon
209317, Jon will always have the Wildlings on his side.
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed May-15-19 05:41 PM
Drogon gotta go either way now that Arya has seen what he is capable of when used for evil.

Everyone else goes home.

209318, unsullied's home was an auction block
Posted by Mynoriti, Thu May-16-19 11:07 PM
>Everyone else goes home.

the Dothraki yeah
209319, Freedom
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 10:43 AM
209320, they don't have dicks, man
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 11:35 AM
209321, why would you need to kill them if Dany is gone
Posted by MiracleRic, Thu May-16-19 03:39 PM
revenge? I honestly don't see that happening but i guess it's one potential ending

soldiers either move on or find someone else to employ them
209322, RE: i guess we're with Jon now
Posted by bentagain, Tue May-14-19 04:23 PM
that's what he was writing

...something about the 'true king', blah blah blah...

I think he was going to out Jon too
209323, also who would he be sending the scrolls to?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 04:29 PM
northern houses? kings's landing? iron bank? i guess just everywhere to get the word out i'm assuming?

>that's what he was writing
>
>...something about the 'true king', blah blah blah...
>
>I think he was going to out Jon too
209324, What IS Varys' plan though?
Posted by double 0, Tue May-14-19 05:22 PM
Do we think he didn't get them scrolls off?

Who would automatically get behind jon? The north of course... but who else? Iron bank and maybe them same dudes from season 1

I don't know the spoilers and I think its highly likely we get an azhor ahai style ending but I wonder of the info leaking out to the realm could be the catalyst..

There isnt’t going to be another way butim sure there will be another showdown between main characters
209325, great point
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue May-14-19 05:50 PM
Varys knows hes gonna die once they find out about the poison or when Tyrion or Jon dimes him to Dany so send out this mass email.. for the good of the realm
209326, so, uh, not sure how many of y'all are gamblers... (BIG FUTURE SPOILER?)
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue May-14-19 07:01 PM
... but on Bovada, you can bet on "who's going to end up on the Iron Throne at finale's end?"... and Bran is at -500. By comparison, Sansa is at +400. So, for whatever reason, gambling outlets think Bran is the HEAVY favorite to sit on the Throne.

Is this due to leaks? Or misdirection? Or... what?

But if Bran *does* end up on the Iron Throne... then, uh, yeah, I will be *very* interested to see how we get there, lmao.
209327, yes its because of the leaks
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Tue May-14-19 07:21 PM
209328, I'm guessing it's the leaks
Posted by mrhood75, Tue May-14-19 07:37 PM
He was the favorite when episode #4 first ran as well.

I'm saying B.S. I'm pretty sure I've said it before in here, but any ending that involves ANYONE sitting on the Iron Throne would be a disappointment.
209329, RE: so, uh, not sure how many of y'all are gamblers... (BIG FUTURE SPOILER?)
Posted by double 0, Tue May-14-19 09:06 PM
I've seen a lot of leaks have Bran on the throne...

It seems SO dumb...

but who the fuck knows...

In my lovely mind.... dany dies and somehow becomes the night queen
209330, That Bran thing is so dumb
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue May-14-19 09:41 PM
I pray the leaks are fake. Why would the three eyed raven become king? Dude feels nothing. Cant connect with anyone. And lives in the past. Please tell me the show runners arent that stupid
209331, it's Jon.
Posted by rdhull, Wed May-15-19 11:46 AM
209332, I added an episode to this season:
Posted by Castro, Wed May-15-19 01:41 AM
https://youtu.be/DHZAYDMln3E
209333, There have been signs but I never imagined the show could get this bad
Posted by makaveli, Wed May-15-19 05:32 AM
It doesn’t seem like they care anymore, I don’t either. It’s like they tried to make Cersei’s death as unsatisfying as possible. It’s just so bad.
209334, Yeah, I just think the idea that storytelling that does not satisfy
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Wed May-15-19 11:03 AM
expectations or isn't what audiences imagine is "bad" storytelling. It's what Hollywood does and that can be boring.


For example, someone online described how the story could have played out "once the bells ring out, the scale of the episode could shift to Jaime trying to save Cersei and Arya trying to kill her, with CleganeBowl as a halftime show." And maybe some of them died or all of them died.

That probably would have been satisfying and what people would imagine could have happened...but everyone would forget that in a week.

I love shows that go for the controversial ending that people still talk about.

But then, I liked how the Sopranos ended.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209335, what made this show great is that it wasn't like Hollywood
Posted by makaveli, Wed May-15-19 01:41 PM
I didn't mind the ending of Sopranos.
209336, I'm really not mad at how Cersei's death went
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed May-15-19 02:32 PM
she died terrified and begging for her life, losing yet another child, watching her closest advisor get killed by her personal bodyguard, and got crushed by rubble after witnessing her empire crumble.

i'm not even really mad about Jaimie's arc turning into a circle.

>It doesn’t seem like they care anymore, I don’t either.
>It’s like they tried to make Cersei’s death as
>unsatisfying as possible. It’s just so bad.
209337, So D&D basically got the next Star Wars movies and said fuck Thrones
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Wed May-15-19 06:48 AM
https://www.joblo.com/movie-news/first-star-wars-film-after-rise-of-skywalker-to-come-from-got-showrunners

HBO offered them ten seasons and they said "nah we'll do it in thirteen episodes, we're doing Star Wars" and proceeded to take a giant dump on the fans that made them famous. Theyre nothing without Martin. Wait until they feel the wrath of Star Wars fanboys.
209338, Star Wars Fandom is no joke.
Posted by walihorse, Wed May-15-19 03:19 PM
209339, I think I'm just going to pretend that the last season doesn't exist
Posted by sectachrome86, Wed May-15-19 11:22 AM
I honestly dont really care much about any of the shit thats happened this season to "wrap up" the series. It hasn't been very satisfying.

It was all about the drama leading up to this. The journey, not the destination.
209340, i liked the newest episode
Posted by mista k5, Wed May-15-19 11:36 AM
dany's turn didnt seem to make much sense sure. it would have been good to see her try to earn peoples love more but i get what they wanted to do. she did lose everything so yeah. it was shocking to see her still decide to burn everything down when they already had everything in hand.

i think ep 1 and 2 were good then 3 and 4 were disappointing. 5 was good to me. well see how they end it all.
209341, if you can get past the writing flaws the episode is fucking incredible
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed May-15-19 12:03 PM
209342, Yeah, on a pure technical level, it's outstanding
Posted by Marauder21, Wed May-15-19 12:04 PM
All of the street-level Kings Landing stuff was amazing.
209343, visually stunning, techichally amazing. score, acting all great
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed May-15-19 01:11 PM
even if you question WHY Tryion and Jaimie are doing what they're doing, their scene together is gut wrenching.

if they bridged this better, and remove Jaimie vs Euron, you possibly have the greatest GOT episode ever, or at least top 3

>All of the street-level Kings Landing stuff was amazing.
209344, i agree with all of this but i can't get past the writing flaws
Posted by makaveli, Wed May-15-19 02:46 PM
the first four seasons were nothing but excellent, things have slowly gone down hill since then, and this episode really brought it home in a bad way.
209345, for me the good far outweighs the bad
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed May-15-19 03:42 PM
the only episode that really bugged me was the battle of Winterfell (which oddly enough GOT podcasts I listen to liked and defended the most).

But even though I've complained quite a bit, I'm enjoying the shit out of this season and just accepting the condensed narrative
209346, samesies
Posted by Jay Doz, Wed May-15-19 03:54 PM
209347, There hasn't been a better episode that shows the horror of war.
Posted by mrhood75, Wed May-15-19 03:22 PM
I just wish it hadn't been so dumb and ham-fisted in building to it these last few episodes.
209348, this is key
Posted by rdhull, Wed May-15-19 12:09 PM
> her still decide to burn everything down
>when they already had everything in hand.

thats the point folks sweep away
209349, She would have been a foreign invader with a weak claim to the throne
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Wed May-15-19 01:29 PM
In fact, she would soon likely be at war with the most beloved man in Westeros who had a better claim to the throne.

On top of that every single Westeros Advisor (who is still alive) has betrayed her even before she took the crown. So she would have had to rely on the advise of a person who betrayed her, that the ringing of bells means that she truly surrendered and the war is over.

I just don't think it's that big of a leap for the woman who said she will burn down cities to get the throne deciding to burn down cities.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209350, RE: She would have been a foreign invader with a weak claim to the throne
Posted by rdhull, Wed May-15-19 02:16 PM
>In fact, she would soon likely be at war with the most
>beloved man in Westeros who had a better claim to the throne.
>
>On top of that every single Westeros Advisor (who is still
>alive) has betrayed her even before she took the crown. So
>she would have had to rely on the advise of a person who
>betrayed her, that the ringing of bells means that she truly
>surrendered and the war is over.
>
>I just don't think it's that big of a leap for the woman who
>said she will burn down cities to get the throne deciding to
>burn down cities.


I agree with all this. And folks would be mad zzzzz if she had heeded to the surrender nd just went back to politics of the iron rule throne bearer. Her decision to do what h edid gives the ending some gravitas as well, insted of them in an ice cream parlor etc.
209351, But she didn't burn down a city to win the throne.
Posted by Hitokiri, Wed May-15-19 06:04 PM
She won the throne (in every way except actually sitting in the chair) and THEN killed seemingly everyone in the city. 500,000 to a million people. The common people.

As Jorah told her "The common people pray for rain, health, and a summer that never ends. They don't care what games the high lords play."

And the high lords? They're on her side. They told her in the previous episode that Dorne was with her, the Iron Islands are with her, The King in the North supports her. She already decimated the Reach. They faced her Dragons and saw what happens. She already took Casterly Rock, the seat of the Westerlands and she already took the Stormlands. (We don't really know what's going on in The Vale or The Riverlands at this point.)

The high lords of Westeros already knows what happens if you defy her. So, the point of killing the common people in King's Landing? Because they didn't "rise up and overthrow Cersei" (who it was established through action and dialogue that they hate)?
209352, there's a good storyline where mass civilian killings is the price
Posted by will_5198, Wed May-15-19 08:13 PM
Dany has to pay for the Throne

but for reasons you just mentioned, that storyline never happened (she had to *instill* fear to rule? the North just faced an immortal army of undead with their own dragon; Dany burning up women and children isn't going to suddenly shake them)
209353, I also think there's a good storyline with killing civilians as the price
Posted by Hitokiri, Thu May-16-19 12:00 PM
for the throne.
That ain't what they did tho.
209354, She doesn’t trust the High Lords
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu May-16-19 10:59 AM
She has seen everyone tell her they are with her and then turn around and do shit behind her back.

Plus she sees how everyone loves Jon so even tho they aid they are with her... are they really? Will they be loyal to her if Jon’s secret keeps spreading?

I think Jon not buying in and laying the D had her in her feelings.

Words don’t mean shit. Also wonder if she was trying to burn Jon up while doing her flyovers.
209355, She hasn't met with any high lords aside from the ones she killed
Posted by Hitokiri, Thu May-16-19 12:06 PM
Like Randall Tarly.
And Cersei.
And I guess Olenna Tyrell, who supported her.

No one likely to rebel at this point. Or they weren't. Until she killed everyone in Kings Landing. That makes them more likely to rebel than not. When you kill the armies that stand against you, fine. You can rule through fear by exterminating enemies. When you indiscriminately kill people who are not standing against you, who are not you enemies, you are a threat to the entire realm. That's an instant vote of no confidence.
209356, dude there isn't any "votes of confidence" when ruling by fear. LOL.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Thu May-16-19 02:58 PM
Stalin killed millions of his own people. It wouldn't make any sense to us, but it made perfect since to him to maintain power.



>Like Randall Tarly.
>And Cersei.
>And I guess Olenna Tyrell, who supported her.
>
>No one likely to rebel at this point. Or they weren't. Until
>she killed everyone in Kings Landing. That makes them more
>likely to rebel than not. When you kill the armies that stand
>against you, fine. You can rule through fear by exterminating
>enemies. When you indiscriminately kill people who are not
>standing against you, who are not you enemies, you are a
>threat to the entire realm. That's an instant vote of no
>confidence.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209357, It was used for lack of a better term, bruh.
Posted by Hitokiri, Thu May-16-19 04:14 PM
If your enemies fear you, that's one thing. You can rule through fear then. If you indiscriminately kill friend and foe alike, you will not rule.
209358, Taking Kingslanding does not give her control of the Seven Kingdoms
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Thu May-16-19 01:28 PM
Again, everyone who supposedly supports her from Westeros has betrayed her. Sansa who rules the North has not taken the knee to her and took steps that lead to a plot against her. John Snow, who is the other big threat to her throne also betrayed her and is responsible for undermining Dany by telling Sansa in the first place. The Iron Islands would be with Jon and Sansa. In fact, all of her Westeros Allies are really Allies by proxy through Jon Snow and Sansa, who she feels betrayed her. You say the lords know what happens when you betray her, but that didn't stop Jon, Sansa, Varys from betraying her.

What the big Dummy Jon Snow doesn't realize is, by telling his family about his heritage he set in motion a sequence of events that will inevitably lead to a war between Dany and the North. It has to happen. She could never rule with some war hero walking around with a better claim to the throne. For what its worth, history is replete of Rulers killing any minor threats to the legitimacy of their claim to the throne AND conquerors razing cities just to make a point.


Now was it a great decision? Of course not. But my point is there is a certain logic to it and it isn't outside the realm of what a person in her position would do (and historically have done). So I reject the idea that it "makes no sense".






>She won the throne (in every way except actually sitting in
>the chair) and THEN killed seemingly everyone in the city.
>500,000 to a million people. The common people.
>
>As Jorah told her "The common people pray for rain, health,
>and a summer that never ends. They don't care what games the
>high lords play."
>
>And the high lords? They're on her side. They told her in the
>previous episode that Dorne was with her, the Iron Islands are
>with her, The King in the North supports her. She already
>decimated the Reach. They faced her Dragons and saw what
>happens. She already took Casterly Rock, the seat of the
>Westerlands and she already took the Stormlands. (We don't
>really know what's going on in The Vale or The Riverlands at
>this point.)
>
>The high lords of Westeros already knows what happens if you
>defy her. So, the point of killing the common people in King's
>Landing? Because they didn't "rise up and overthrow Cersei"
>(who it was established through action and dialogue that they
>hate)?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209359, How did Dorne betray her?
Posted by Hitokiri, Thu May-16-19 04:07 PM
And how is Dorne a proxy ally?
Sansa does not rule the North.
The Iron Islands are ruled by Yara. Also not a poxy ally.

The folks who (if they are allies) would be proxy allies are The Vale and the Riverlands. But we don't know what's happening in either area.

Dorne is almost an autonomous region and they have declared for Dany.
She conquered The Reach. Destroyed it's unified army at the field of fire.

She took the Westerlands or at least the seat of the Westerlands.

She took the Stormlands.
209360, I don't even know who is in charge of Dorne.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Thu May-16-19 04:19 PM
>And how is Dorne a proxy ally?

Who runs Dorne again?

>Sansa does not rule the North.
>The Iron Islands are ruled by Yara. Also not a poxy ally.


Everyone who is down with Jon and Sansa, would be the opposition if they go to war with Dany. Yara got down with them through Theon who died protecting Starks and the North. It's hard to believe that Dany believes she has strong ties to Yara (when by the way, did she take back Iron Islands?)


>
>The folks who (if they are allies) would be proxy allies are
>The Vale and the Riverlands. But we don't know what's
>happening in either area.

Again, if we don't know what is going on there, it is hard for Dany to count them as Allies.


>
>Dorne is almost an autonomous region and they have declared
>for Dany.

When? Not doubting but missed it.


>She conquered The Reach. Destroyed it's unified army at the
>field of fire.

k. So she is an occupier in that territory.

>
>She took the Westerlands or at least the seat of the
>Westerlands.

Again, an occupier in that territory.

>
>She took the Stormlands.

Occupier.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209361, It was stated in the dialogue that there was a new prince of dorne
Posted by Hitokiri, Thu May-16-19 08:28 PM
who had declared for Dany. Same with the Iron Islands. Stated in the dialogue of episode 4 when they're preparing for battle against King's Landing.

I said that we don't know what's going on with The Vale or the Riverlands. But, if we were to go with their historic allegiances they would be proxy allies of Dany through Jon/Sansa. No one else would be proxy allies. Yara and Dany conversed in season 7 and came to terms then, as I recall.
209362, She chose Fear
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu May-16-19 08:38 PM
Anyone who said they were loyal to Dany now knows what happens if they betray her.

209363, But the people of King's Landing never betrayed her
Posted by Hitokiri, Thu May-16-19 10:18 PM
that's what i'm trying to communicate. Yes, doing what she did to Vary's is fine. What she did to Randyll and Dickon Tarly is fine. Those are people who betrayed her or defied her. The people of King's Landing did neither of those things. They were not loyal to Cersei, they're just people who "pray for rain, health, and a summer that never ends. They don't care what games the high lords play."
You can't justify their mass murder. You only turn everyone against you doing that shit. Unless she plans on sleeping with Drogon next to her, she's just asked to be killed in her sleep. Or poisioned. (Though it does seem that there are way more Unsullied and Dothraki than we were lead to believe. Actually in the trailer for the final episode, it looks like she's got as many Unsullied as ever)

This is why Jamie killed her father (granted he didn't have a dragon). You just can't do shit like that. You've crossed the line of fear at that point.
209364, You're trying to relate to a killer
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Fri May-17-19 07:17 AM
King's Landing has always represented anger to her. Its where her father was murdered, relatives raped and murdered, young nieces and nephews were murdered, where she was forced to flee. Imagine going home to a place like that on top of a nuclear weapon aka a dragon. It makes sense that she would say fuck it and burn it to the ground. It represents where her family was destroyed.
209365, The problem is Dany never sees the people as people
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 09:41 AM
These are “Cersei people” so when they ask for mercy it falls on deaf ears.

Also, this is a warning to any other kingdom. Its like dropping a bomb on Hiroshima. The people never did anything wrong but bombs still get dropped.

When she first met Jon she asked his opinion on war strategies after they suffered a major loss. Pretty sure she wanted to go to LL and burn shit up in season 7. Jon tells her that a dragon burning up helpless people is a bad look. They end up attacking the Lannister army while it was on the move. I think she threw all that advice out the window allthese seasons and said fuck it.. this is how EYE Rule shit.
KL
209366, I'm saying those aren't strong ties and who knows if they would be there
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Fri May-17-19 09:16 AM
if it comes out that there is someone else out there with a better claim to the throne. How sure can Dany be that Yara has her back if she knows about Jon and Dany has to go to war with him?

That's why in the feudal system marriages across families were so important. It's the best way to cement alliances. Otherwise shit changes with the circumstance.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209367, I call BS on ANYONE who thinks they knew
Posted by Vector, Thu May-16-19 02:32 PM
So many "the signs were there" after the fact smart asses.

Bullshit.

There were no signs that she would do what she did FROM THE SHOW. Fuck the books. It's the show we're talking about. I cannot believe the crap from those that say THIS IS EXACTLY what was hinted at. Damn.
209368, nah it was a very popular theory going in
Posted by Mynoriti, Thu May-16-19 03:42 PM
both GOT podcasts I listened to the week before said her heel turn was inevitable

Tyrion said in the last episode he didn't want to hear the sounds of women and children burning and screaming

I thought her heel turn would wind up being a tease, and I think most of us (and Tyrion) only expected it as collateral damage (her being reckless and dgaf with Drogon vs straight up genocide), and I have complaints that beats are missing but its also BS to claim there were no signs. she literally talks about laying waste to cities multiple times throughout the series
209369, u might need to binge watch
Posted by MiracleRic, Thu May-16-19 03:47 PM
bc anyone there's countless evidence of this...

anybody who does a serious recap before each season or scans through the show's wiki from time to time has a lot of that shit fresh

like...who forgets how she just flamed up the other dothraki leaders?

who forgets that scene

who forgets the scene in season 2 when there is a giant hole in the red keep and it appears to be snowing (but it's ash)

there's been a ridiculous amount of foreshadowing but even still...it's shocking bc of how it was executed

but she's been a polarized character for a few seasons at least
209370, naw it's thoroughly consistent with her character
Posted by PG, Thu May-16-19 04:29 PM
she's always had a serious capacity for spiteful massacre and a complete lack of patience for any opposition to her end.. she's likes to think of herself as compassionate and for the people but in reality she demonstrated very little of it along the way.. she's all about her own power and retribution on traitors and opposition.. very, very little for the people... she's ill tempered and spiteful and obviously prone to seek vengeance.
209371, yeah it's a more clumsily executed Walter White arc
Posted by Mynoriti, Thu May-16-19 04:35 PM
the delusion that he just wanted to do right by his family. Multiple signs along the way that that's bullshit, and it snowballs
209372, good comparison
Posted by PG, Thu May-16-19 05:24 PM
209373, damn thats a good comparison
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Thu May-16-19 08:31 PM
209374, The one difference is that her cruelty was always directed at masters
Posted by Cocobrotha2, Fri May-17-19 07:27 AM
She'd talk all kinds of wild mess about burning down cities and such but she never actually did anything to the common people. I want to see how the writers reconcile that with what she did in KL.
209375, Exactly
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 07:38 AM
All the instances of her ruthlessness are directed at people she considers "bad" (even the Tarlys) and that have done something to her.

Lighting up everyone in KL is wayyyyyyyy out there and not remotely plausible. It is such a 180. I don't care what people say about it being sign posted. THAT ACTION WAS NOT.
209376, The thing is, she always had trusted advisors talking her down
Posted by Cocobrotha2, Fri May-17-19 07:58 AM
>All the instances of her ruthlessness are directed at people
>she considers "bad" (even the Tarlys) and that have done
>something to her.
>
>Lighting up everyone in KL is wayyyyyyyy out there and not
>remotely plausible. It is such a 180. I don't care what people
>say about it being sign posted. THAT ACTION WAS NOT.

So we can't say she wouldn't have done this before.

But Barriston Selmy is gone. Jorah is gone. Missandei is gone.

Missandei basically said burn the bitch down as her last words.

Grey Worm is her military leader so he isn't going to be diplomatic... plus he's got revenge in mind.

Tyrion is batting like .000 since leaving Mereen so she doesn't trust him.

And Jon is too noble to be trusted.

So, really, this is unrestrained Dany. I think alot of people would've preferred this shift to be more explicit but I think it works.
209377, I’ve watched this episode like 4 times
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 08:36 AM
It’s really a great episode besides the stupid Jamie Euron fight.

Greyworm didn’t seem surprised at all at Dany’s scorecard earth decision.

When Tyrion asked her to promise to chill if she heard the bells she didn’t say ok. She looks at Greyworm and basically tells him to get ready for revenge.

209378, I disagree
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 09:40 AM
She nodded to him as if to say that he should follow what Tyrion had mentioned. There wasn't anything in her look that was knowing or secretive between them.

I still believe folk are reading signs after the fact, for example, one could look back and interpret that scene the way you have.
209379, That's how GOOD SHIT WORKS!! That's why folks loved the Sixth Sense!!
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Fri May-17-19 10:00 AM
>I still believe folk are reading signs after the fact, for
>example, one could look back and interpret that scene the way
>you have.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209380, Sixth Sense worked because it made sense
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 10:07 AM
(although, I guessed it straight away during the movie) and you don't have to sit through the movie again to GET IT. Same with Usual Suspects.

So I'm supposed to sit through hours of GoT AGAIN just to go "ah, yeah, I see, you can tell she is going to roast all of KL at the end". Yeah, riiiiight.

Nope, not buying it and I'll say it again, I call BS on anyone knowing she was going to do that particular act from all the so-called "signs".
209381, Wait for me outside the city, you will know when it’s time
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 10:21 AM
Time to what?

She definitely nods but she doesn’t give a convincing yes to Tyrion. She nods and then immediately says those lines to Greyworm

Now... Earlier in the convo they have this exchange

“The people who live there, they’re not your enemies,” Tyrion says, still pleading for time and arguing against the attack that Cersei is baiting her into. “They’re innocents, like the ones you liberated in Meereen.”

“In Meereen,” Daenerys Targaryen says, “the slaves turned on the masters and liberated the city themselves the moment I arrived.”

In other words, the people of King’s Landing haven’t welcomed her with open arms and resisted Queen Cersei. It’s a line delivered so quickly that it’s easy to miss what’s behind it: Daenerys Targaryen is trivializing the lives of tens of thousands of her potential subjects. If they get hurt, it’s their fault for not automatically and unconditionally loving her.

“They’re afraid,” Tyrion says. “Anyone who resists Cersei will see his family butchered. You can’t expect them to be heroes. They’re hostages.”

“They are. In a tyrant’s grip. Whose fault is that? Mine?”

“What does it matter whose fault it is? Thousands of children will die if the city burns.”

“Your sister knows how to use her enemies’ weaknesses against them. That’s what she thinks our mercy is: weakness.”


Great breakdown of all the scenes from this episode on Polygon. It also shows how Varys is afraid of what she is capable of and knows she isn’t fit to rule.

https://www.polygon.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/15/18623715/game-of-thrones-episode-5-the-bells-breakdown-what-happened
209382, I get it
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 10:40 AM
I do. I understand there were signs. My original point is that those signs did not inevitably lead to her baking all and sundry of KL.

Folks seems to be saying - "You could see the signs, this is EXACTLY what they were leading to."

No, they were leading her to the dark side. I can live with that and it's good arc. Specifically, roasting KL was terrible writing.

Don't get me wrong though. It was great to watch. Just not "right".
209383, Of course it’s not right. That’s why Varys tried to poison her
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 10:48 AM
I’m not really understanding your point. I don’t think anyone predicted she would burn the city down but there have been a good 5 to 6 times when everyone has begged her not to burn civilians.

I mean.. how many times has Tyrion begged her to show mercy?

She’s heavy handed.

As soon as she made that face after she heard the bells I was like “aww shit” but I still thought she was going to go hard on the Red Keep not everyone but I wasn’t complete shocked.

There have been way too many convos with her asking why she couldn’t burn up cities who didn’t treat her like a God.

209384, I'll try to explain my point
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 01:54 PM
D roasts everyone in KL. This act is now considered the proof of apparently many folks thoughts that her arc was to go to the dark side.

But I don't believe for one second that any of those peeps envisioned that she would perpetrate that particular act. They had some idea that something would happen to show her dark side but not that.

My point, which is subtle and maybe odd, is that exact act was not predicted by anyone, so it seems, and neither did many people like myself and so it appears too odd and ultimately disappointing.

I'm not saying going bad was unexpected nor that it wasn't a good arc. I'm specifically talking about the burning and destruction of everyone. Another way of showing the change would have worked.

To be honest, it's difficult to explain my point, but I've given it a go.
209385, So if we didn’t predict it it’s bad writing?
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 02:11 PM
I don’t understand this logic

Seems like anytime the show does something people weren’t expecting people lose their shit.


209386, no but motivations should line up
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 02:29 PM
yes we've seen her burn people, ,most of who deserved it, yes she's talked shit about burning cities down, yes she lost a lot in a condensed period of time, yes she has an attention whore complex, but we also have seen for 8 seasons that she's not a monster. that she has a 'gentle heart' at times, that she really did feel so horribly that when her dragons burned a baby, she locked them up, etc..

her going at the red keep and burning every woman and child around it alive would make sense. her burning the city down if cersei had fled and she was obsessed over killing her no matter the cost would make sense, her going ham after drogon got hit in the tail (of if they clipped Rheagal in this ep instead) would make sense.

her going block by block committing mass genocide because idk she crazy, not so much. this needed more runway.
209387, the writers said that's not the case though
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 11:23 AM
they said she made the decision on the dragon. I was skeptical of the nod too. her nod seemed to be fine so be it, but grey worm's looked suspect. it's not like dude has a wide range of expressions though

>When Tyrion asked her to promise to chill if she heard the
>bells she didn’t say ok. She looks at Greyworm and basically
>tells him to get ready for revenge.
>
>
209388, You could definitely tell she snapped
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 02:22 PM
but so many other times in this show they ask you to give your word when asking for a promise.

That nod was mad sketchy.
209389, Yeah and I think their point is that cruelty is cruelty.
Posted by stravinskian, Fri May-17-19 08:45 AM
At least I think that was Martin's point.

We fell for a fantasy trope in thinking her earlier cruelty was justified, even noble. Even if it was justified, it was still sadistic. It was a part of her nature that we shouldn't have overlooked.

They lead us down this line with all the scenes of Ned, Robb and Jon, glumly cutting off the heads that they had to cut off.

I think their point is: nobody is completely noble. Even in a fantasy story, nobody kills just because they have to.

Dany was struggling with inner conflict her whole life, between wanting to be noble, just, selfless; and wanting to be powerful, strong, feared. Wanting to be a human versus wanting to be a dragon.

The coin landed when she finally made it to Westeros, sacrificed hugely to do the noble, human thing, and still everything went to shit.
209390, What went to shit though?
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 09:48 AM
She won. She got what she wanted.
209391, She didn't win, though, and that's the point.
Posted by stravinskian, Fri May-17-19 11:24 AM
It wasn't about political power. It was about her sense of personal destiny.

She honestly thought, in all the previous seasons, that she was the "rightful" ruler of Westeros. She convinced herself, with her actions in Essos, that she was a savior to the masses. She'd also been told for all her life that the people of Westeros were occupied and that she and her dragons would be "greeted as liberators." (as the old saying goes)

Then she got there and EVERYONE was suspicious of her, EVERYONE just knew her as the scary daughter of the Mad King. She gave up massive portions of her army, the army that viewed her as a god-like figure, to save Westeros from the army of the dead. And the people of Westeros responded with more suspicion, fear, and racist hatred against her true followers. And eventually people within her own ranks were plotting to kill her just like Robert Baratheon had in season 1.

I honestly don't see why anyone doesn't understand this turn. If anything I'm disappointed that the writing was so on the nose. She came right out and said that she thought she could rule by love, but instead all she had was fear. But she thought it was her destiny to rule regardless.

They also spent years telling us that Targaryens are not just keepers of dragons; that they ARE dragons, in a literal sense, that they have dragon's blood running through their veins. With her brother Viserys this was clearly not the case, and that's why she looked down on him with such disdain and scorn when he was killed by his "crown" and she said he was NOT a dragon. Well she IS a dragon, in a much more literal sense. That's why she survived those fires. And they also showed us time and time again in Essos that dragons can't really fit into the world of humans, with those times that Drogon (or whoever it was) scorched people's goats, or worse, children. Dragons kill, because they have the power to kill. And that's what she did in King's Landing.
209392, Thank you
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 02:28 PM
This whole damn journey has been about her claim of the thrown and breaker of chains.

She pretty much says fuck those people in KL if they won’t turn on Cersei when she arrives.

and everyone else is on some “that bish is crazy.. they all crazy” yet folks are surprised when she goes mad?

After Jon turns on her, Varys tried to poison her, Missandei gets beheaded as Tyrion betrays her... no one should be shocked it went down this way.

209393, There isn't much light between someone who is only cruel to bad people to
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Fri May-17-19 09:19 AM
I am cruel to anyone if the ends justify the means.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209394, from 2015
Posted by Jay Doz, Thu May-16-19 04:57 PM
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8568477/game-of-thrones-dany-villain

and from 2016
https://www.vox.com/2016/5/20/11714002/game-of-thrones-daenerys-villain-dany
209395, Yeah, I get the IDEA that she would go bad
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 03:07 AM
It's a very good GRRM way of twisting things BUT I still don't think anyone knew WHAT she was going to do and that is what many people (in fact most people I know) can't get their head around.

My point is, no way did anyone know she was going to torch everything and everyone in KL with the possibility that Jon, Greyworm, Davos, etc. would also be collateral damage.

Yes, there were signs of her single minded ruthlessness at times but not signs for what she ended up doing.
209396, Tyrion has been begging her not to burn up the gen pop since forever.
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu May-16-19 08:50 PM
209397, You missing the point. It's not that people knew that this would happen
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Fri May-17-19 09:12 AM
it's that it's not out of character because they been laying the groundwork.

That's good writing in my opinion. When you can surprise your audience while having layed the groundwork for the surprise.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209398, I get your point and those of others but
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 09:53 AM
I firmly believe the "surprise" was just terrible writing and that no one saw it coming, even those that said a while back that she would go bad.
209399, I think the idea this is terrible writing is overblown
Posted by Cocobrotha2, Fri May-17-19 12:20 PM
I agree with the thought that I've seen that most of people's problems with this season are due to the change in style of the storytelling.

It went from an open-ended, character driven show to a show that's plot driven. It's gone from "anything could happen to these fully realized characters" to "certain things must happen within these next 12 episodes".

So yeah, some of the storytelling IS rushed now bc people are being moved around like pawns so they can be involved in certain plot points.

And some of the characters have lost their depth because the "flourishes" that made them interesting aren't as necessary to move the plot forward. But I think they're still playing within the boundaries of the show, they're just not using the full potential of the characters anymore.

And I don't know if the result would've been any better if they tried to keep it as open-ended as Martin did. Hell, he allegedly wrote himself into a corner and he's brilliant. What would the showrunners have done if they tried to mimic his style?
209400, this is where I disagree because they traded development for shock value
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 11:12 AM
there are quite a few scenarios where her actual snap to fuck it, kill everyone would make more sense

I think they were too hell bent on surprise that they felt they needed to skip beats to get there.

they did the same lazy thing last week with Rheagal

and last season with littlefinger (as cool as the scene was)
209401, The death of Littlefinger was utterly stupid.
Posted by stravinskian, Fri May-17-19 11:34 AM

As much as I'm defending this season (and actually honestly liking it), the way they killed Baelish was just silly and really more of a wink than a story, as far as I can tell.
209402, yeah, and again, i'm really enjoying this season too
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 11:39 AM
and even though the backlash is overboard (there's a fucking petition now), i can't deny the writing is tragically flawed and rushed

>As much as I'm defending this season (and actually honestly
>liking it), the way they killed Baelish was just silly and
>really more of a wink than a story, as far as I can tell.

Yeah, especially when we had scenes of Sansa and Arya arguing alone. I LOVED the "how do you plead... Lord Baelish", and Arya taking him out but how they got there didn't make much sense.
209403, Nah. Fans need to get over themselves
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 02:36 PM
The show is ending. Stfu already (not you but in general)

Cocoa said it best a few post earlier. When it was open ended people enjoyed it because they had all types of directions to imagine.

209404, agree/disagree
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 02:50 PM
the backlash is extra. the idea that it negates the whole series is ridiculous. people signing petitions on this should be thrown into the sea. there's so much amazing shit they've shown us that I legit kinda feel sorry for any fan who can't enjoy it.

but the if you didn't like it, fuck you/stfu if you complain/'merica love it or leave it style backlash to the backlash is ridiculous too.

a lot of people are complaining because they love this show so much, and realize it could have been better had the writing been as amazing as just about everything else.

there's nothing wrong with that.

209405, I wonder if it isn't the most divisive TV episode ever
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 03:00 PM
209406, ive def never seen a penultimate episode this divisive lol
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 04:11 PM
209407, Folks are arguing like these are Real People... ROTFL
Posted by Case_One, Thu May-16-19 04:25 PM

.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ
209408, this is rich
Posted by rdhull, Thu May-16-19 08:16 PM
>
>.
>.
>
>“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted
>me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee
>Strobel, The Case for Christ
209409, Dracarys
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu May-16-19 08:46 PM
https://media1.tenor.com/images/941f96fb9b715d78e3dce13771bbed50/tenor.gif?itemid=14106339
209410, Took a second to get this reply. Funny.
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Fri May-17-19 09:10 AM

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
209411, imagine being so deeply invested in something that's not real
Posted by Mynoriti, Thu May-16-19 10:49 PM
209412, Well played
Posted by Vector, Fri May-17-19 05:35 AM
209413, lmao
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Fri May-17-19 07:14 AM
*slow clap*
209414, I see what you did there
Posted by Marauder21, Fri May-17-19 09:03 AM
209415, Do Tell.
Posted by Case_One, Fri May-17-19 09:08 AM

.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ
209416, oop lol!
Posted by Pete Burns, Fri May-17-19 09:38 AM
209417, http://i.imgur.com/kXnklaI.gif
Posted by PG, Fri May-17-19 12:02 PM
http://i.imgur.com/kXnklaI.gif
209418, Case been one of my favorite characters for 20 seasons now.
Posted by Nopayne, Fri May-17-19 08:28 PM
209419, https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60354275_10156527802698425_100374536758755328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=62bb22d208b24d7573b182a959727b7b&oe=5D64052F
Posted by rdhull, Thu May-16-19 08:41 PM
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60354275_10156527802698425_100374536758755328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=62bb22d208b24d7573b182a959727b7b&oe=5D64052F
209420, My actual predictions for the finale
Posted by Marauder21, Fri May-17-19 09:13 AM
-Dany and Jon both die. He kills her, then dies from wounds he suffered while fighting Grey Worm (who will obviously die)
-Westeros goes full Yugoslavia, becomes eight independent kingdoms (not sure what happens to the Crownlands, but it's mostly scorched at this point, so just split it between the Riverlands and the Stormlands I guess.)
-Drogon gets killed in the most implausible way for a dragon yet. I don't know how, maybe Arya stabs it or something
-Titty Boi Aryn comes back wearing not just one of those chains that highborn people wear over their tunics, but rather two of those chainz, and now everyone likes him
-Tyrion somehow doesn't get killed
-Bronn is the only person who gets a genuinely happy ending. Close second to Brienne, who will get a satisfying, but probably kinda bittersweet ending
209421, My predictions
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 09:32 AM
Jon kills Greyworm
Arya kills Dany
Jon gets the crown but doesn’t want it
Tyrion goes to the north to be Sansa’s hand
Everyone rules their own kingdoms
Drogon is set free... then we see her giving birth in a cave as it fades to black

I can also see Jon killing Drogon while crying as another ending.
209422, if the starks clean house like that then its wack.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Fri May-17-19 09:49 AM
209423, Why? It definitely feels like this journey was all about the Starks
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 02:40 PM
Father beheaded
Bronn crippled
Wolves killed
Mom’s neck sliced
Brother and wife murked
Sansa played and then abused

It was on some family reunion shit once they got back North. I could definitely see them all winning in the end.

I feel like the 3 eyed raven brother is kinda wack tho. Maybe he walks up out of this bitch too.
209424, Arya killing Dany is definitely something I could see happening
Posted by Marauder21, Fri May-17-19 10:29 AM
Just wasn't sure if they'd have her kill both the Night King AND Dany, leave a big villain for someone else to kill.

Sansa and Tyrion's a possibility, but he's proven himself borderline incompetent these last couple seasons. She's smart enough, she just needs to get with some guy who's going to make her happy (Pod?)
209425, Jon institutes constitutional monarchy and commonwealth of 7 kingdoms
Posted by j., Fri May-17-19 11:13 AM
On some British monarchy steez
he'll be the ceremonial "king" but everyone will run their own affairs
Sansa is proclaimed the Queen in the North
Bran creates the Citadel School for the Gifted
Arya dies trying to kill Dany, who is then killed by Jon in revenge
209426, Westerosi Magna Carta
Posted by Jay Doz, Fri May-17-19 11:40 AM
209427, Prime Minister Samwell Tarley
Posted by Marauder21, Fri May-17-19 02:13 PM
209428, Dany either stays in power or somehow gets killed by Tyrion
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 11:50 AM
Dany puts a contract on Sansa

Arya "retires"

Jon goes north. Ghost kills him for not petting him goodbye.

Drogon doesn't die. My mom takes him to a farm with other dragons play and stuff.
209429, Here's mine:
Posted by mrhood75, Fri May-17-19 11:50 AM
Sprinkled them throughout the post, but I'll consolidate them -

Jon kills Dany.
Grey Worm gets killed by Drogon
As others have said, they establish a bunch of nation states to run Westeros, lead by Sansa, the weird kid from the Eyre, Gendry, Bronn, Tyrion (warden of the West), Yara, the new Prince of Dorne, and Edmure Tully (I think he's still alive). They hold some round table shit down in a somewhat rebuilt King Landing. Sansa sends Brienne to be her represntative while she rules the North.
Arya decides she's through with being a killer and marries Gendry. She doesn't live as a "lady," but helps him rule regardless.
Jon goes back to live in the true North beyond what's left of the Wall. With Ghost in tow, he goes to live near the cave where he first boned Ygritte, the only place he was ever happy.
209430, LOL Robin Arryn is probably the only person I could imagine on the throne.
Posted by stravinskian, Fri May-17-19 11:59 AM

That would be a pretty grim ending, a huge "fuck you" to anyone who wanted the wheel to be broken.

I don't expect that'll happen, but I'd enjoy it if it did.
209431, My Prediction
Posted by walihorse, Fri May-17-19 02:17 PM
Dany tries to burn Jon, but By Lord of Light, he can't be burned. She makes a fool out of herself in front of people, they realize he is Targaryen, people start to shit on her, then Tyrion kills her.

Jon Lets Sansa and Tyrion rule.

I dunno. I want something like this.
209432, Drogon throws Dany off his back after Jon survives the fire
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri May-17-19 02:43 PM
Damn. I didn’t think about Tyrion killing her. That’s a good one.

It’s not like she got hands either. Off that Dragon she ain’t shit.
209433, i dont see tyrion killing her
Posted by mista k5, Fri May-17-19 04:20 PM
maybe a shae style thing where his feelings just push him to it but it doesnt seem like it would make sense.
209434, My predictions....
Posted by KnowOne, Fri May-17-19 02:58 PM
Jon attempts to kill Danny, she tried to burn him with Drogon, either he does not burn or Drogon refuses to burn him because of who he is, Jon then kills Danny, & immediately after Grey Worm and the Unsullied kill Jon

I cant call what will happen with everyone else. Maybe Danny kills the Imp before the above happens.
209435, RE: My actual predictions for the finale
Posted by double 0, Fri May-17-19 03:14 PM
Drogon and Ghost (and the other wolves) have been conspiring this whole time....

Nymiria comes back and the animals kill them all and rule over a people free realm

Bran wargs into a dragon or wolf before death

They truly break the wheel
209436, one of my wishes is for Arya to get killed by a faceless men
Posted by shygurl, Sat May-18-19 07:26 PM
I mean, I certainly don't want her to get killed cause she's one of my favorite characters, but given how the house of black and white can infiltrate any situation, I really really really feel like it was very unlikely that she just left and there was only one attempt on her life by the waif.

I need to see some sort of bounty on her life by the faceless men, I need to see her racing to stay ahead of them, maybe Jaqen teaming up with her to save her life.

To me it's yet another loose end that the writers did a poor job of covering.
209437, .
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri May-17-19 12:11 PM
.