general commentary(off topic for a sec):

thanks for not being part of the problem (with me at least).

every engagement I have had with you, you have been thoughtful, well reasoned and civil. you don't go lowest common denominator and rant and rave and throw e-tantrums. you make your points, and when you disagree you do it without forgetting there is an actual person - worthy of respect on a basic human level - without being condescending, or petty about it. you don't lower yourself, even when everyone else is doing it. you aren't so punch-drunk that you think every comment is an attempt at a gotcha moment and swing all wild to defend yourself (or your cause) when it's unnecessary. you actually do dialog, and not soundbites. that is rare here these days

i sincerely appreciate that. stay gold ponyboy.

now...onto the post

>My first impression and the most relevant point.....is that
>this lyric doesn't even come CLOSE to the derogatory nature of
>Georgie Peorgie. In fact...I'm not even sure this Funkadelic
>song is derogatory or mean-spirited at all.

Note: I made no assertion that this was akin to GP (which, by the way, isn't some pearl-clutching shock 20+ years later because I have actually have been a tribe fan since "Buddy" and actively listen to their songs, b-sides, bootlegs, and all).

I also didn't say Jimmy was derogatory (or anything else one way or the other), because I wanted to discuss it in the context *OF* the GP discussion.

i think this entire post is a shameful mess. In my opinion, it doesn't speak well of most of the frequent posters within. But, it isn't surprising either. Rather than jump into the crapfest and start slinging, I wanted to try and juxtapose it with another song that - when you listen casually *might* be mistaken as something it isn't. You took the time to post the lyrics so we can see, parse, and analyze. Thank you for helping the post - or at least the sub-thread - to move forward in a "lets build" way (back when we use to actually have that as a goal with these interactions)

The reference to the previous lesson post - where I mistakenly thought the "music analysts" would be willing to actually analyze the song - fell flat and into "it ain't bad" without any real discussion of why. My actual thought this time wasn't "gotcha" but that songs from/by straight people about their views on sexual preferences and gender definition have been around a long time. We could do an entire post on how within "black music" there have been songs all over the opinion spectrum (yes - some even worse than GP). Sadly but honestly - I am more and more convinced that OKP as a whole is really into *discussing* much of anything anymore. I referenced those who responded before (not by name, lest they feel attacked) HOPING this could be a chance to actually discourse this time with them on the differences, if they remembered. or maybe with others if they were just down to try. hope springs eternal that maybe this isn't 100%, but "know your audience" is very much a real thing. "Why you didn't say all that before?" Because it wiser to test and see if it's worth bothering with before typing and just getting cosigns or drama back - let others share their analysis then dialog.

>There's an
>interesting discussion to be had there though.

Again, I hoped someone else would think so, hence the post about it

>I haven't
>thoroughly analyzed it...but there might even be a contention
>that the song is not a critique of Jim but rather a critique
>of social norms. i.e. 'Reality can be a-stiff sometimes But
>then again it can be flexible'.

don't skip verse one though, cuz it helps set up verse 2

"Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Upsets the Jim"

paraphrase - jimmy is bothered by the "bitch in him"

what does that mean?

does it mean he is effeminate (phrase used = historical perspective of the time) and doesn't like that about himself?

how come the equation of femininity (if that is what it is) is equated with a pretty traditionally derogatory term "bitch". why does that get a pass? should it? or have we just gotten to the point where that term has been neutered into a compliment and we can remove it from its original context?

"Jimmy's got a little bit of bitch in him
The bitch in him
Outweighs the Jim"

paraphrase - his femininity is more prevalent than ("outweighs") his masculinity, or alternately, just is the dominant aspect of his personality

this part seems to be a support for the first part mailny showing the degree of Jim's issue

"Jimmy's got a little bit of she in he
But when he pee, he see"

paraphrase - this part is interesting because it *could* be introducing an actual physical characteristic ("when he pee, he see") is jimmy a hermaphrodite, is jimmy actually someone with the genitalia of a woman, who is presenting themselves as a man?

not really clear

but, again, it shows that Jimmy's issue isn't just in Jimmmy's mind but also spreads to *his* view of his body

now. looking at verse two we have the perspective of the singer which is essentially "it ain't all black and white, do whatever you want" which is a sentiment whch pretty much fits within the general philosophy of the group

the interesting thing is that, the singer's view notwithstanding, their is still tension within Jimmy because the rest of the world doesn't necessarily play that game (reality can be a stiff/hard sometimes)

>I'm not completely convinced
>one way or the other yet....but I think there's an argument
>that the Funkadelic song might even be gay/trans-positive.
>You could read it as a 'let your freak flag fly' type of
>message. (Play on, Jimmy)

agreed, but there is still a weird undercurrent of uncomfortability (or maybe non-full-acceptance) in the reference to the issue as some seemingly invasive and unwelcomed "other"-ness that's "in him"

to a degree it kinda plays both sides

>I'm interested to see what other people think....but the more
>I read the lyrics, the more I think that this song might even
>be way ahead of it's time in specific relation to queer
>theory.

maybe. maybe not. i don't think so though. i think folks like to consider themselves as "progressive" and some kind of trailblazing vanguards of whatever-ness, but the deeper you dig the more likely you are to find that there really isn't anything new. that attitudes and prevailing philosophies just cycle in a pendulum swinging kind of way

>One thing's for sure....there is a HUGE difference between
>this song and Georgie Peorgie.

and it was never stated otherwise. as much as we talk about "critical thought" basic application of that would make that assertion moot relative to anything *I* said

thanks again for being decent