damn NY

http://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A

----------------------------------------
www.rappersiknow.com
www.twitter.com/fwmj

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www.rappersiknow.com
www.twitter.com/fwmj

Women would just step up and holla at the men that they actually want to fuck.

>Women would just step up and holla at the men that they
>actually want to fuck.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

verbal harassments?

some of that shit was appalling. "have a nice evening" seems fairly benign though. i guess i get that after twenty "DAAAAMNS!" "have a nice evening" might just seem like more of the same.

I fucking love your sig

but yeah in the context of this video I wouldnt blame her for cussing out someone that was trying to stop her for directions. Like dude walking with her for 5 minutes? Like how terrifying would that be?

It's insincere at best.

in my opinion.

i tell people to have a nice evening all the time. i don't give a shit how their evening goes. i also don't live in a major metropolitan area, so when i pass people on the street it's weirder if i don't acknowledge them, than if i do, so there's a different standard, and i get that.

If someone is just walking along the street and not making eye contact with you, there's no good reason to go out of your way to say anything to them really.

.

harassment?

I'm not saying it should be punishable by law to offer an unsolicited "hi", so if you were referring to some legal definition, my answer would probably be different.

that's a fair definition. i don't think i agree, but i respect the stance.

frequently
he probably wouldnt consider that harrassment
clearly this woman (and most others) get unwanted statements ALL DAY

sorry we aren't picking out the "good" vs the "bad" ones for you
it's all bothersome and unwarranted

it would be nice to consider "have a good evening" a nice thing to say to a stranger

but in this context and most of the time when women on the street get that said to them, the feeling is all the same regardless of the words. it's just another dude thinking he can say whatever to me and i'm supposed to respond

>regardless of the words. it's just another dude thinking he
>can say whatever to me and i'm supposed to respond


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

when we're the only two people on the block walking within two feet of each other is an acknowledgement

on a crowded ass street to some random person walking by? nahhhh


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

and it's definitely a disconnect for me.

i've probably spent less than 72 total hours walking streets that busy in my whole life, whereas i say good evening to pretty much everyone i see while i walk my dog.

it's a different environment with different social rules.

yeah it really is a different world. Out here in the burbs its normal to greet people you pass while walking. Good morning or how you doing? Shit even a smile and nod. I do stay quiet when its a female by herself and I am alone. Just because I know how intimidating I look and I dont want to scare anyone. But I still cant believe that video its crazy.

when in this environment, they're just quantitatively different.

in a suburban/rural environment "have a nice evening" is qualitatively different statement than "damn, ma *looks at ass region*"

in this environment they're just different levels of harassment.

even as a champion of the jorts movement

he like leans in a little and turns as she walks by saying "have a nice evening" bruh, you're going the other way, and she's giving you zero rhythm, where do you see this going?

unless she is actually a prostitute how can you imagine to yourself a positive reaction in this circumstance.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

as was mentioned below, after all the "damn"s and "I just seen a thousand dollars walk by" and other shit that was thrown at her, I can see how a simple "hello" is gonna grate on you and make you shout "leave me the fuck alone!"

But yeah, even an insincere "have a nice day" while unwarranted and unsolicited, doesn't strike me as harassment by itself.

i should have saved that shit. i got roasted SO HARD.

and my stance hasnt changed. its annoying and unnecessary.

as we saw in that clip.

the build-up of unsolicited/unwanted greetings amounts to harassment.

its sad to say, but this is why when i run errands in my own neighborhood, i put on a costume....jogging pants, sports bra, sweat shirt, sneakers, scarf and tam on my head. it makes me feel like a sellout sometimes, but i seriously have a hard time dealing with all that shit. i dont see any kind of real solution in sight.

>its sad to say, but this is why when i run errands in my own
>neighborhood, i put on a costume....jogging pants, sports bra,
>sweat shirt, sneakers, scarf and tam on my head. it makes me
>feel like a sellout sometimes, but i seriously have a hard
>time dealing with all that shit. i dont see any kind of real
>solution in sight.

with in the first place.

its letting the terrorists win.

then there's the occasionally extremely sexually explicit/creepy ones!

but yeah. at least once a day. already filled my quota this morning.

.

ive been hollered at by all kinds of men. even cute ones

im just trying to get from point A to point B and im not interested
i have never ever evereverever entertained a street holler to the point im taking or giving my number

as i said below, im plenty social and in a social setting if a dude comes at me in a respectful manner he will likely get pretty far if the attraction is mutual

The street is not a controlled or steady environment to entertain any man approaching you.
A good looking man can be just as much of a harasser as an ugly one.

nm

whenever I see reports about "street harassment" it's almost always NYCentric. I'm thinking that this is a uniquely NYC thing. Not that it DOESN'T happen in other cities, but it seems as if with the NYC "street holler" the way and frequency that it happens in this city is different than, say, Detroit, Phoenix, or LA.

in a sense it comes down to NYC'ers believing that they are the center of the universe...
---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

.

but i see it happen all the time in toronto too. Men are often shameless and disgusting and think it's a compliment. It's not. It's scary for women. And the countless comments of "it's just a compliment. these women should appreciate the compliment that their beauty is being acknowledged" is completely asinine and backwards. In a world where studies indicate that 40-60% of woman have experienced sexual harassment, and many of those have been victims of sexual assault, it is not okay to comment on a womans appearance that she does not invite. Even if a guy thinks he's doing something innocent, it may be incredibly scary or creepy to a woman, especially one that is walking by herself.

You saw two different men just walk with her. Can you imagine how terrifying that is? Who does that? In my opinion that goes beyond sexual harassment, and is a form of assault. People confuse assualt for battery, but as some definitions say "assault is often defined as an attempt to injure to someone else, and in some circumstances can include threats or threatening behavior against others"

If you are reading this and are one of the people that stands outside a store, or bar, or club, or bodega, or anywhere and you have ever said "smile" to a woman, you should rethink who you are as a person and change your ways immediately. It's disgusting.

I wonder if the cold anti-social setting in NYC leads guys to not care about making the lewd comments since to an extent, NYC isn't a communal warm environment unless you are on your block or area of residence.

>I wonder if the cold anti-social setting in NYC leads guys to
>not care about making the lewd comments since to an extent,
>NYC isn't a communal warm environment unless you are on your
>block or area of residence.

It's not the same in smaller cities or towns where people embrace each other in a warmer, friendlier way.

Even as big as it is, Phoenix was like that when I lived there. People spoke to each other all the time.

---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

>in a sense it comes down to NYC'ers believing that they are
>the center of the universe...

^^^^^^^^^^^x 1000

PREACH!

getting hollered at in your car while driving is a thing in LA
and its mad scary!!

I can't begin to break down all the times I've been followed because I wouldn't roll my window down to talk to some dude!
or pull over to talk to some dude!

nah, guys will holler anyway they can.
online, offline and/or while driving-

that is how fucked up it is being a woman in society. that someone is like on their way to work or to dinner or whatever and they see a woman and literally go "fuck where im going, i got a new destination. terrorizing this woman so i can tell her she's beautiful"

jesus fuck.

Summer months.

Whats wrong with people saying Hello?

If they said hello to every passer by its fine and they are a bit batty.

These men only say hello bc she is attractive, they would like to get to know her better so they can fuck. Period. There is no other reason to say hello, smile, damn, honk your horn whistle or kiss at.

If it is just to let her know they like what they see....like the horn honkers. Why not keep their opinion of her physical appearance to themself appreciate it and keep moving....the woman does have a mirror.

I am harrased in this way on a daily basis. It makes me feel unsafe. while walking 4 blocks to the gym in the dark (bc I should be able to) people say hello honk their horns etc. I feel unsafe and so I carry a bat.

Men need to behave like they have a mother sisiter daughter some women folk in their lives. They wouldn't want their mother to be treated this way.

that would be awesome.

or not :-/

So I feel its better to be a beautiful woman and deal with them selves for 3 hot long ass months. Have them running down the street screaming just leave me alone damn!

wow thats hard core.

I am not going to wait til later bc men are assholes. Do not talk to me in the dark you will be threatened loudly.

eybody had one in the crib, just inside the door.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

I was taken back a bit smh dude u @ work

With the same name

Sometimes you got to show cats fat meat is greasy


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

i shouldnt laugh but the visual makes me giggle
meanwhile i definitely need to be buying pepper spray. a woman was raped twice a few blocks away

let me repeat that again
SHE WAS RAPED TWICE

not by the same person. by TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE


raped once, walked away from that rape, raped again about a block away

they caught the first one (17 year old kid), and as far as i know, they haven't caught the second.

>let me repeat that again
>SHE WAS RAPED TWICE
>
>not by the same person. by TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE
>
>
>raped once, walked away from that rape, raped again about a
>block away
>

jesus christ! I heard about that young spanish girl getting beat up and robbed around there too

I can't even begin to think what caused back to back assaults like that, what was going through these kids minds, if the incidents were related (had to be)

n/m

Good. I look like a crazy woman walking aroungd with a bat good. Leave me the hell alone and I wont beat the shit outta you with my bat.

stay alert and get the pepper spray or bat or small knife or taser.

bear spray in not illegal, and is easy to find and compact and I made sure my gf and her college-aged sister both got one. I know they say that when you carry a weapon you're more likely to have it used against you, but I always tell my gf to just keep her hand on it in her purse or jacket pocket when she is walking home at night. Always be ready to bust that shit the fuck out if someone gets too close or inappropriate. Most pussy men attackers are not expecting a woman to be carrying anything and would likely run away if a woman pulled that out...or a bat haha.

It's a sick world we live in.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://www.arwrath.com/content/1/112255.gif

but i wouldn't.

just enjoy myself for that time.

Prime example of men know how they are and not wanting to deal with that shit.

You gonna just stay in the house lol

here?

it just doesn't even make any sense.

jacking off right now.

>I
>feel unsafe and so I carry a bat.


You ever considered learning a martial art for self-defense purposes? I'm not joking around or trying to make light of your fears with that question.

No one bothers me with a visible weapon.

I have questions I want to ask, but I won't. Sucks to be that paranoid, but I get it.

at your destination??
Do you get odd looks because of the bat?
Metal or Wood?
Regulation?
.

i've had a slight taste of this and i thought i'd go crazy dealing for just a few hrs (in drag the first time) and then for a few months (when i was all muscled up). that 2nd time i wasn't out in public as a woman but as a man and when i was around my gay brothers i got cat-called and grabbed more often than i had ever experienced. i could only imagine how disturbed i would be if that were my existence most of the time and not just in those isolated moments. and i only dealt w/it from a small segment of the population - it would've been so much worse if i were targeted by a majority of the male population as most women are.

it seems most men don't understand what this feels like.

>it seems most men don't understand what this feels like.


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

this is like the millionth video of this shit.
yeah it sucks.
so what?
rock your pepper spray and keep it movin.
compared to the generations of women before you, this is like black people not being able to catch a cab.

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

do you not see how many people think this is *still* not a big deal? oh right, you literally just that. you are the problem. everyone that downplays this as redundant or "not that bad" "they're just being complimentary" is living under a rock. it's harassment. it's borderline assault. a threat does not have to be explicit to be implied. this woman *should* feel threatened.

in Iran, they throwin acid on women.
Boko Haram is still kidnapping girls.
and yall in here bitchin about somebody saying some shit to you on the street (which has been happening forever) like now its "assault"
I'm not saying its ok
and if a woman feels threatened by it she should take precautions to defend herself against it
but all this everything that makes a woman uncomfortable is assault, rape culture shit, compared to women who are REALLY being assaulted on the street?
nah.
-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

you are literally reducing a serious issue to an absurdist example that I can't possibly combat. Of course your example is atrocious and extreme and disgusting, but you are using your Iranian example to downplay the seriousness of street harassment on women.

that's it.
these dudes are miserable creeps. yes.
they are not criminals.
men who are actually committing random acts of violence against women that cause irrevocable damage?
murder, rape, acid attacks, kidnapping
different.
I don't like the false equivalency of catcalls and assault.
that's all.

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

won't nobody call them 'assault' just to spare your feewings.

what word do you want us to use?

yup. basically.

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

b/c saying 'assault' gives you the sads.

and b/c you don't understand the actual definition of assault and so you think the conduct being described here isn't assault when it really is. but that's okay. we'll say 'tiddlies' for you.

btw - look at the first definition of assault as found in a legal dictionary i've cited for you below, pumpkin:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault

Assault
Definition

>>1. Intentionally putting another person in reasonable apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. No intent to cause physical injury needs to exist, and no physical injury needs to result.<< So defined in tort law and the criminal statutes of some states.

2. With the intent to cause physical injury, making another person reasonably apprehend an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Essentially, an attempted battery. So defined in the criminal statutes of some states.

3. With the intent to cause physical injury, actually causing such injury to another person. Essentially, the same as a battery. So defined in the criminal statutes of some states, and so understood in popular usage.

they dont wanna listen though. while im sure many street-hollerers are good people and well intentioned, putting oneself in someone else's shoes (especially one of the opposite sex) is clearly impossible to some of these people. they cannot get through their heads that women often feel petrified and threatened by their cute, harmless comments.

but its okay, they might be their wifey, so all bets are off.

this post is unreal to me.

who post as if they're throwing spitballs from the back of the classroom. so there's that.

but yes, there is an out right refusal to understand this issue from the women's perspective.

and also i think now or never hit on a real point - guilt. i think some of us men in this discussion feel as though we're being made to feel guilty about conduct we see as a positive. we bristle against that. plus we're a bit ashamed too. and once that shame and guilt hit some of us get defensive. and if we're also immature - here come the spitballs.

the potential threat of physical violence that's unknown in some of these situations.

I would be interested in seeing what happened if she walked in other neighborhoods.

ive seen people of all race colour and creed be inappropriate with their words to women on the streets. that's where she was. and volume has something to do with it. there's a lot of people around where she was. obviously the quota will be higher.

but ultimately, what does it matter what streets she's walking?

I would just be interested in seeing how the interactions were in other parts of NYC. If she spent 10 hours walking, why was most of this edited video of her walk in Harlem? Is that because most of the harassment took place in Harlem (relatively speaking)? There are other parts of the city just as populated (if not more) than 125th. Did she get the same amount of harassment in Soho for instance? That's all I'm asking. I have no agenda.

i don't know the backstory or the area she was in. the video just proves her point.

"she had it coming"

"well, she knew the streets she was walking. she knew she would warrant the attention on *those* streets"

that is a problem.

what if she was wearing "club clothes"? then its "well, she knew what she was wearing on *those* streets"

i wouldn't presume to street holler and don't know anyone who does that. still, i'm sympathetic toward women who say and show that they have to deal with this harassment, and reading these posts and seeing these videos (although some are ridiculous like that one with the woman in a body suit walking through art galleries and museums) has helped the issue become a bit less abstract for me. i guess even people who have manners and show respect in some situations think they can or should behave this way toward women they don't know who are minding their own business in public, which is another of many sad signs of the times.

if you see a pretty girl youre interested in
whats wrong with greeting her
it doesnt have to be disrespectful

i get its nyc and ppl just dont stop in the street and talk
cuz they're sooooo busy with their big city lives and all

but where im from ppl do this everyday
niggas start families off of street hollers

it is absolutely a double standard. if a woman approached a man or solicits attention to a man on the street, fine. but it does not work the other way.

take a class. lots of people socializing in class.
go to a bar or club where talking politely or asking to dance is not as threatening.
use tinder.
use a dating site.
join an intramural co-ed sporting league.

there's lots of ways to meet people, uncreepily. talking to a woman walking on the street is no longer a safe place to do that in this world. too many disgusting people have made the streets scary for women.

you miss all the shots you dont take

is the classy thing to do

i can deal with rejection in public arenas

walk down the streets for fear that one of the seemingly innocent hollas is actually coming from a true predator that will then walk beside her for 5 minutes creepily, all the while making her fear that she will be imminently attacked and raped, but too afraid to reach for her pepper spray because any move might make the man unleash.

who dont live in fear and are able to
discern between an asshole and somebody who is genuine
i get it tho
it sucks for them

now you have those people to ask out that you were wondering about. the one that might be your wife.

let the girls you don't know be on their way free of fear of threat and violence.

at the same hoop.

imagine how that hoop feels.

get out of your feelings as a man wanting a woman and get into her experience. try a little empathy.

by random niggas on the street
so i understand it
thats why if i do take that approach
its always going to be respectful and polite

don't you think even dangerous predators would be smart enough to use polite tender tones to see if they can get what they want through polite channels first?

if everyone is polite, it might just be fake for some of them.

That is the fear women have to face. that even a cute guy being polite *MIGHT* be a fucking psycho whose about to push her into a back alley if she doesnt respond politely.

"Is it cause i'm ugly? if i give you my phone number would you call me?" that guy from the video THINKS he's being polite, but he's obviously a fucking creeper. put yourself in HER shoes. Any comment made to her is suspect and potentially scary.

and consider what that woman has been through and how many men have approached her respectfully and politely in just one day/week/month. and ask yourself if it's worth potentially ruining her moment/hour/afternoon/day/week/et al just b/c you feel like you gotta take a shot at her.

think about her and the very real possibility that she won't view your respectful holla in a vacuum but that due to what she's got going on your respectful holla is likely to be viewed by her as yet ANOTHER unwanted holla that she has to deal with. yet ANOTHER UNWANTED holla from another STRANGE man on the street who wants a piece of her attention.

think about her for a minute longer or a few seconds longer and stop making it about you and your mother. make it about her. and think about whether you want to add to that woman's struggle by being YET ANOTHER STRANGE MAN approaching her b/c he feels entitled to her time just b/c he's 'polite' and 'respectful'.

think about the stories she's heard or experiences she's had where a guy who approached all polite and respectful turned into a monster for some reason unknown to her. think about that when you wanna approach as YET ANOTHER STRANGE POLITE MAN who has intentions unknown to her. imagine the panic that may set off in her - even if brief. and multiply that panic by dozens-fold and imagine feeling that shit multiple times per day more days than not.

but as a man
if i see someone im interested in
i might approach her...its that simple
the species depends on it lol
i totally get what they go through
but me going through the mental hula hoops of trying
to figure out if talking to her will potentially ruin her day
seems kinda of...i dunno..weak is the word im thinking of

the decision to holla at a strange woman has shit to do w/propagation of the species and everything to do w/selfish men feeling entitled to women's attention. period.

>i totally get what they go through

you say that but i don't think you actually get what they go through. or if you do get it but act w/o reflecting on it then your getting it is meaningless. and it doesn't make you an ally.

>but me going through the mental hula hoops of trying
>to figure out if talking to her will potentially ruin her day
>seems kinda of...i dunno..weak is the word im thinking of

then after you decline to holla at that bitch b/c you might ruin her day, go to the gym and max out on the bench press. or go home and do some man chores around your house. or vigorously scratch your balls.

basically get the hell over yourself. your manhood is not in jeopardy if you decline to holla at a strange woman b/c you understand the impact it could have on her. if anything your manhood is enhanced if you incorporate empathy for women in it.

http://bighugelabs.com/output/motivatorce7e7ba39bad2d6866f964b2da17298195501926.jpg

yes
you do


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

tell ppl what they are and what they do
without knowing shit about them
thats a gift

you said you're not even going to bother thinking you might make her feel uncomfortable or ruin her day

because YOU want to talk to her

im not that guy that shoots at everything

so just because im not cognizant of whatever she went through
before i talk to her doesnt make me a bad person
if anything
when u hollering at a girl on the street u puttin yourself
out there for her to judge YOU and ultimately make a decision
if she wants to continue the convo
i have no power in that situation

you just roll up to her

its good to know that you back down when it's clear she's not interested and all that but you also have made it very clear that you really DGAF that she might find the encounter threatening

she doesnt know you. you may be a really sweet guy, you may be her future husband, but basically you are imposing on her. most women don't take it too an extreme extent. like i said i get hollered at every day i dont go nuts about it but i absolutely fucking hate it. unequivocally.

on top of all that, even considering that she might find it threatening you think is weak and you want to go ahead and do it anyway

it's troubling you don't find it to be a big deal. i bet all of those dudes think the same thing--that theyre nice and cool and this isn't a big deal and it's just a compliment and blah blah blah but it is not cool.

if i see you and im interested
what can i do in that situation
if ive never met you before in my life

if you try and holler on the street you'll fail
if you catch me in a social setting, you may succeed

Like "FUCK, IT'S AN ATTRACTIVE WOMAN... GOTTA HOLLER!"

If it's the wrong time and wrong place, you can be pretty confident another will be along when the time and place is more appropriate. There are literally BILLIONS of women out there.... letting one walk past you on the street won't lead to a lifetime of celibacy.

KIM because there are a billion women in the world.. pick another one to speak to because this one is on the street.

No, you wait until you're in a job interview. It'd be weird, wouldn't it?

There are thousands of social situations where hollering is not just acceptable, but encouraged. It's surprisingly easy to keep your tongue from dragging along the floor until you're in one.

people on the street.

Who the hell waits until a job interview to ask for a job? This ain't 1985.

lol the fact you think im some desperate thirsty ass nigga
that has no self control just shows
how ridiculous this whole thing is
i see its an issue
but yall are doin like 10 much right now
like really

I'm not trying to imply you're overly thirsty personally... just that the practise isn't acceptable enough to continue, even if you only do it once a year.

BUT if it's generally accepted by most women you speak to that random street hollers are, however unintentionally, a 'threatening' experience... where's the 'grey' situation where you think it would be ok? When is it ok to risk putting someone in fear for their safety so that you can chance your arm at chatting them up?

Is that for you to decide? Isn't it "better to be safe than sorry"?

Is there a reliable visual cue from the target that lets you know she's safely hollerable or is it a lottery as to whether you'll scare or flatter her?

Why not just.... stop doing it and holler in situations where everyone's comfortable and prepared?

A woman is at a bar just enjoying a drink. Should she be subjected to another strange, unwanted holla? Who knows how many times she's been approached that night by a strange man.

Plug in any location or event (school, bookstore, grocery store, park, party, etc.) and your qualm fits. Why is the street any different?

There is always the chance that a man's attempt to woo a woman will be unwanted. And an attractive woman, by nature, is going to have more men interested in her. So should men take this into account an stop (respectfully) hollering at women they are attracted to in order to avoid causing 'panic'?

i'm sure
i'm absolutely POSITIVE pimpgangsterblahblah will have something redeemable to say after that post


i promise!
*crosses fingers behind back
(.. )
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Is there any time/place where it's appropriate for a man to approach a woman in public?

My interpretation of his post led me to think his answer to that question is no. From the dismissal, I'm still not sure.

Because the work you're doing below
Oh my yes
I can see clearly how earnest you are at seeking answers that have never before been address on these here boards nor anywhere online nor offline

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>Is there any time/place where it's appropriate for a man to
>approach a woman in public? No

Yeah I've probably missed out on some dates but I don't want to come across like the dudes in the video posted up top

if I'm two paces behind my chick in a crowded area and I gotta hear some dumb old motherfucker "MISS! HAVE A BLESSED DAY!" ONE MORE TIME

I'm gonna fuckin snap

Like people are saying above, it's worse in NYC than other cities, but in no way is it isolated to NYC. And it's worse in certain areas of NYC, but definitely not limited to where this video is shot.

ANY PUBLIC AREA you gotta walk through a woman is susceptible to this shit

she walks ahead to look at something and almost immediately someone is saying something to her. maybe she's outta my league so people don't see me as a possibility for her bf, or whatever, maybe they just do not give a shit.

it's infuriating to see people of the same sex just bringing down that sex so far into the gutter.

Or whether or not you do or don't like something


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

the point was, a woman walks alone and immediately gets creepy ass stares and comments, completely unsolicited and unwarranted.

Go in public, and mad people are going to be looking and talking abt you. That's life.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

I love people watching. It's one of my favourite things to do. I'm amused at what people do in public. But I don't GAWK. I don't make comments. I dont solicit. I mind my own business.

Just cause it's normal, doesn't make it okay. You are a man. You don't have to get it. I am a man too. I don't want my daughter, my so, my sister in law, my mother, or any other woman to feel threatened cause someone just HAD to say HI or MMM or A THOUSAND DOLLARS JUST WALKED BY.

gets bottle thrown at head

You were sayin?
*****************************************
http://prettyperiod.me/

http://youtu.be/u8bIK3bWgog<;--HAHA

does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

http://mhmarketingsalesmanagement.com/blogs/tonykovach/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/painted-into-a-corner-credit-canaconcepts-.gif

as much as i want to make this about men...this is still mostly about the direction of pursuit

ok, maybe not mostly...but i think it's the key ingredient in the street harassment gumbo

Holding men more accountable won't help bc in certain urban areas...knowing how to engage strange women is a skill and sometimes even a useful one...

not to say it's worth continuously harassing women over...but even without street harassment...women will be inconvenienced by how men pursue them...

I'd like to think DC is better than NYC but it's really not by much

street hollers are especially for shits and giggles.

dudes need
yes NEED to stfu
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.

If yall hadn't taught us to never give up and to be hunters in the male/female relationship and to shrug rejection off...we wouldn't be here.

Nope. Y'all's fault.

- NY is the biggest city, aggression of all types is the culture of the city (not that this is acceptable)

- they definitely added sensationalism by going to 125th street, and who really walks for 10 hours in a day to make a point?

- 600 minutes walking in a city of 8 million people taught "you eat what you kill", yes you're going to be spoken to every 6 minutes on average. especially if you go to "the hood" where everyone is already on edge

- street harassment is bad, but dont intentionally place yourself in the midst of savages to hype up the idea

.

I know the area pretty well. the nature of many Harlemites is savage

attention whoring is her game

https://m.facebook.com/yoshi25

And he's also pretty dumb

.

i've lived in Memphis, DC, Chi, and now CT.

this shit happens very often.

i learned as teen to not drive with my windows down in the summer. why? cause dudes think it's a signal to holla. so, i have to drive with my windows rolled up even though i love driving with the windows down in warmer months.

i've been followed by a man in my car as i was driving.

i've had a man in a bookstore push up on me and get rejected. as i working at a desk in this bookstore, he proceed to follow me and stare at me. this was in a bookstore on the weekend during daylight hours that was FULL of people. he gave no fucks. i ended up leaving and going home.

street harassment is NOT NYC or even East Coast centric. it's not even "street" centric cause it happens every where. the bookstore. the grocery store. the parking lot. driving in your car with the windows/top down. in the mall.

large cities with dense populations will always have street holla's, junkies, drug dealers, rats, etc...

I'm sorry but I can't feel sympathy for people who pay $400 a sq ft and live on top of each other who demand silence once they hit the pavement.

All motherfuckers want is an acknowledgement if their presence

We are here, you see us, nod. Smile. Look. Something.

No as a woman you don't owe anyone shit.

Yes I get women live in abject fear of being beaten and gang raped every second they are on the street

But if you don't want people to say shit to you, throw some headphones on

So you can't hear em anyway

I'm confused as to what I as a man am supposed to do to stop this

Run up on cats that said good evening and be like no! Stop being nice to this chick she just trying to go to Popeyes in peace


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

>But if you don't want people to say shit to you, throw some
>headphones on
>
>So you can't hear em anyway
>

If I had a dollar for every time a dude approached me while I had on my headphones, Oprah and Warren Buffet combined wouldn't have shit on me.
They will tap you, motion to you, stare you to death etc.
When certain types of men want a woman's attention they will go to most any lengths to get it with no fucks given at all.

Sometimes your stupid shtick is just offensive.

So we're even, hoe.

And tell your mama I want my eggs over easy, not scrambled.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

And I'm not talking about our interactions, just in case it's not clear.

.

without speaking
thats just weirdo shit

i thought I had everyone down.

they think liking to fuck women is the same as liking and viewing women as human beings. it's not.

cuz i really dont see anyone saying anything
unreasonable or misoginstic
im actually starting to think that term only lives online
cuz i never see it in real world applications

misogyny?

do you know any men that truly hate women?
or do you just throw that term around
because of street hollers

i skimmed over this whole post
and i dont see anyone being unreasonable
or just contrarian for the hell of it

its about not valuing women as human beings who deserve respect.

its misogynistic to think its ok to for a man to invade a womans personal space just because he wants to fuck her.

absolutely.

i just see that word thrown around so much
online but never ever hear come from anyone i know
it seems to be a catch-all term
because i just dont believe men hollering at women
is men hating women or whatever misogynists do

"I have the right to speak to this woman, fuck whether she's uncomfortable" is an extreme concept that lends itself towards being utterly dismissive of a woman's right to be left alone

both sides are being extreme though. on one hand there's "women could be murdered by a guy saying hello", on the other there's "how else am I going to get to know someone?"

the middle ground is accepting a woman's cues when she's disinterested and walking it off politely

conveying sincere interest. however, 90% of the time that's not what is going on.

throwing out "hey girl *insert some language about her body or sex*" or "hey beautiful" or whatever else along these lines ain't it.

it's misogyny when you have men and women talking about "why you gotta walk don 125th street? you KNOW that's how they do" as though she should alter HER behavior so she won't be harassed. or "get out of NYC" or anything else that conveys a woman inexplicably wants this behavior directed towards her based on where she lives, walks, works, dresses, etc. all of this implies that both parties are equally culpable for this. this is not true. the problem lies with the harasser, not the person being degraded, inconvenienced, and feeling scared for their safety.

and yes, i know men who truly hate women.

I mean it's crazy what some men think or brush off as okay. It's never okay to make a person feel afraid or uncomfortable or scared just cause "i had to holla. its survival of the fittest out here. she could be my wife! how can i not take my shot!?"

THIS ISN"T ABOUT YOUR EGO. If she's SOOOOOO gorgeous you just had to take your shot...then so did the 40 other guys she walked by earlier today. You're not special. This is ALL about a womans right to not feel afraid and threatened.

Does that make me a misogynist? If so, I'll be that.

Having sex with a woman is way...and I do mean waaaaaay better than just abt any other activity one could engage in with a woman.

Other than spending her money. That might trump it.

But barely.


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

>Does that make me a misogynist? If so, I'll be that.
>
>Having sex with a woman is way...and I do mean waaaaaay better
>than just abt any other activity one could engage in with a
>woman.
>
>Other than spending her money. That might trump it.
>
>But barely.

like a whole lot, and it's the reason folks can't take some of the good shit you say seriously in other posts

And ask people which they'd rather do

Go to the moon v. Sex

Balance the national budget v. Sex

Roller coaster v. Sex

I mean...y'all can be mad all day long but shit is what it is

>And ask people which they'd rather do
>
>Go to the moon v. Sex
>
I'm going to the moon, you goddamn weirdo

>Balance the national budget v. Sex
>
i'm balancing the budget holmes, then having all the "that spanish enwurd solved an american crisis" pussy for months, maybe years

>Roller coaster v. Sex
>
sex. i hate roller coasters

>I mean...y'all can be mad all day long but shit is what it is
>
no, it's not what it is. it's a social construct, but you a capitalism yay guy, so this line of reasoning makes sense

Carry on, pinko


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

crazy MFers

you got daughters b...

you gotta chill


"i wanna hug all u idiotic bastards & then set you all on fire" -Bin

www.twitter.com/bedstuybetty
http://bedstuybetty.tumblr.com/
DROkayplayer: Giving you good puff since May '05

>i thought I had everyone down.

*salutes*
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

he has to have committed a sex crime of some sort

I doubt any of them dudes can spell misogyny or even know what street harassment is.

How can they be reached?

no, but i dunno how to reach them.

i think the first step is to get them to stop thinking about themselves and to think about the holla from the woman's perspective. which is the point of this video and other similar awareness campaigns.

i don't think that works b/c then dudes jump on that 'but i'm respectful!' shit. and they don't get that even the 'respectful' hollas are unwanted and need to be curbed.

cuz shes 5'11
and very pretty and dudes used to say all manners of shit
to get her attention
i never once saw her fear for life
or start campaigns against street hollers
it made me understand theres a right and wrong
way to approach someone

Was weak and desperate enough to deal with that bullshit, my sister should? Get the fuck outta here with yo dumb ass anecdotes....




>cuz shes 5'11
>and very pretty and dudes used to say all manners of shit
>to get her attention
>i never once saw her fear for life
>or start campaigns against street hollers
>it made me understand theres a right and wrong
>way to approach someone
>

she was weak and desperate for not making videos?
i never once saw her accept a street holler
cuz they were disrespectful
and i really try to keep it light on here
but fuck you for calling her weak and desperate
seriously fuck you
you dont know shit about her
ugh you people


i dont ever get mad on here
but maybe you should identify yourself
cuz thats some real cowardly shit to do talk abt someones mom
from behind a screenname
I would seriously fuck you up for that shit nigga

men need to be taught as young boys that women are not simply body part to have sex with. men and young boys need to be taught that they are not entitled to sex or a conversation with a woman because you deem her attractive. men and young boys need to be taught that a woman's primary purpose is NOT to serve you or to engage in any interaction with you cause you want her to.


there needs to be a cultural shift in the values and attitudes we promote for men and women. there needs to be shift in how romantic relationships are portrayed through media. there needs to be a shift in men and women are socialized in regards to romantic relationships and expectations associated with romantic relationships.

men need to understand that same social cues that apply to in the work environment, with your parents/siblings/family, friends, and other non-romantic interactions also apply to romantic situations.

if you're having a conversation with someone and he/she keeps darting their eyes away from you or looking at other things in the vicinity while you're talking to them, would you interpret this situation as the person wanting to be in a conversation with you? would you interpret this person as interested in the conversation or you?

answers to these questions should be "no." those same social cues exist in every other human interaction, including flirting and romantic interactions.

that there needs to be a cultural shift
i just watched a dude holler at a girl at chipotle last nite
she didnt run for her life and he didnt try to rape her
it seems like things get overblown so quickly
when it comes to matters of communication between men and women

examples of it not ending in rape. There are exceptions to every rule. Some men get raped too.

But you finding occasions where the girl didnt run off screaming rape! is not an excuse.

If you make 8 girls uncomfortable from your polite hollering to find the 9th girl that likes it, you probably immediately forgot about the 8 girls you made feel frightened and awful. BUT YOU FOUND ONE WHO DIDNT MIND! Yay.

y'all use that .5% for every argument.

In your brilliant math, if 1000 women get hollered at, the 5 people who get raped are just...what...nothing? just .5 percent?

to this individual. Odds are, you weren't just being polite to the homeless elderly woman that just walked by. You weren't being polite that dude that just walked by. You're being polite becuase you want to fuck this person. You don't expect her to reciprocate, so whats the harm in taking a shot? right?

You want to fuck her. It's always about sex. So even us polite folk, still want to fuck. Now put yourself in the woman's shoes. She knows she is a vagina to these men. The rude ones. The creepy ones. The polite ones. There's no lesser of 2 evils. It's all scary. Anyone can snap and push her into a back alley.

She just wants to get to her destination unscathed. Your homegrown "mama taught me to be polite and chivalrous" act is of no consequence to her. She is frightened by your words.

It all comes back to wanting to smash.

or at least that's how it's often presented...it's more about power...which street hollering can also be about

i think that might be a bit misguided to think that those crazy motherfuckers would have been ok if they just kept their lust isolated to their own mind...

not to say that even if it was all harmless...it should be celebrated...

i just think this is complicated and some people want to simplify it while others overcomplicate it

i dont have any of the answers sway

entitlement and wanting power and control over women.

i don't think anyone is denying this.

bc you are agreeing with me on that particular aspect

i'm taking issue with objectification or sexual pursuit as the root of the problem...

i know you or others take issue with it...but i disagree in that area...

but i was just taking issue with the "just wanting to smash" being the reason for those assaults and so forth

to an attractive woman (or anyone you wouldnt otherwise be overtly polite to) is rooted in desire. not necessarily the act of intercourse but of being with that person on some level. possibly sexual, possibly violently, possibly emotional.

the point is, if you are "being polite" to one person, and not the 20 people that walked by before or after, ask yourself why you're being "polite" to THAT person. It's probably because they do something to you in that moment. And THAT is what's constantly happening to that person. And they feel uncomfortable. And they cannot decipher between the purely innocent, and the illicit. IT's jsut deafening and horrible all the time.

now, i am speaking from a place of privilege

but i believe that men and women should feel somewhat free to pursue that desire

that's why i mention objectification

the reality of it is that it affects women differently bc of other societal circumstances...

i think objectification isn't offensive, inappropriate, and will be rampant no matter which ways we try to designate as socially acceptable

rather than trying to combat that...i feel like their are other solutions...none of which i have btw

i feel like we should address those other societal circumstances rather than trying to combat the innate (and for many constant) pursuit of sex

But imagine the fear that a woman faces on a street in rejecting a guy creepily hollering at her. She is afraid to say anything because if she gives in, she's in trouble, and if she says fuck off or even politely declines, she fears escalating the situation and the potential for danger is rampant in her mind.

Even if she does end up being interested as Bin so impressively accomplished with his wife, that is exception to the rule, and we should not be making 999 women feel AFRAID to say no to get to the one woman who willingly says yes. And odds are if she's interested, she probably flashed eye contact in the direction of that guy that welcomes some type of greeting.

i personally don't think so

doesn't mean i think it's invalid

bc i have an unreasonable fear of police

but i recognize how irrational it is and feel like it's my responsibility to keep that in check while still acknowledging that there are factors that make my fears a reality...and that those are what I should address if i can as directly if possible

im fumbling this analogy and i apologize

2 dudes followed her
they didnt put their hands on her but it could have gone there easily

i think most of us who have a holler story have one that almost or did go awry

i went from being "complimented" to accosted with dude balling up his fist demanding that i thank him

can't blame me for being scared.

and while i can't control the behavior of these dudes
doesn't mean i should tolerate it either
i don't see why people, especially those who see it as wrong, figure it's just gotta be and we can't try and change opinions

because the fear really isn't that irrational. clearly.

not really a necessary evil

but one stop below that

i get tense...i get afraid...sometimes they even pull me over

and even though the worst case didn't happen

i still was afraid...and chances are they know they have that effect

sure, it's kind of their job

but pursuit is kind of ours too...not one all of us can turn on/off

i guess what i think i'm always trying to convey when engaged in this discussion is:

irrational fears based on anecdotes are valid but not solely the fault of men nor women...

i will continue to fear the police...

maybe my interaction with them is that much less and that's the messy part of the analogy but i'm not sure

can't tell if this is me just being stubborn or if i just can't figure out what it is that still has me on the fence

>sure, it's kind of their job
>
>but pursuit is kind of ours too...not one all of us can turn
>on/off


yes i know society trains you to take the lead but that doesnt mean you have to do it any and every setting

i don't understand why it's so hard to get that there's possibly may be a time and/or place for engaging women

woman walking out front to lure the hollas.

then trailing behind her, some dudes to holla at the men that catcall.

gay hollas would make it real for them.

Need some Terry Crews looking brother to holla at them, then when they get offended, say "smile" and follow them for 4 hours.

"chivalry"

We send a fuckton of mixed messages to men and women about how to interact with one another, and then get shocked when fuckery happens.

Also, a lot of this is regional. There are parts of the country where grocery store/gas station/Saturday car wash hollers are not only acceptable, but kind of expected.

We gotta be honest about this stuff, and a lot of times we're...not quite there

which is what we always need in addition to org-based resources/interventions. myself and another teacher are going to be using this video in our curriculum along with other related material. there's lots of ways to help raise young boys with a higher consciousness on this, and lots of work being done already.

this was even an issue back when our parents were coming up.

the #stopstreetharassment is just some agenda being pushed by feminazis & introverted/ antisocial, attention-whoring drama queens...GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELVES! sheesh.

I also blame gentrification & the overuse of social media but that's a whole 'nother convo. boy, are we in trouble.

(see:y'all) start using some sense & stop acting like the world is supposed to conform to our (see:y'all) silly ass idiosyncrasies.

>(see:y'all) start using some sense & stop acting like the
>world is supposed to conform to our (see:y'all) silly ass
>idiosyncrasies.

too.

it's only one potential symptom of the disease but exists outside of it as well

i have zero problem with wanton sexual objectification bc i do believe it to be a driving force of people in general...

i think our social setup and the direction of pursuit and differences between the sexes make it harmful...but that objectification and hollering isn't something that can be stamped out or should be...it should just exist without the misogyny that is associated with it (correctly or incorrectly)

i've been robbed before...and not by women...but that doesn't cause me to fear every man that approaches me in one way or another...but i understand that i don't get approached by men like women do and i've never been raped or assaulted...so i admit i have shortcomings when trying to figure that aspect of it out a bit

but my gut still says that while street-hollering isn't necessary...i still have trouble see the overall benefit of eliminating it...the crazy men that abuse women are still going to abuse women...street holler or no street holler...

im starting to hate this issue in general

Complete opposite
Lol

Chix wanna be approached....just not by creeps or dudes they ain't attracted to

>Chix wanna be approached....just not by creeps or dudes they
>ain't attracted to

i DJ and go to parties
i go to panel discussions and networking events

i don't mind being approached in social settings

while people want to think that the world is a stage i'm just trying to talk to work. or walk home. or do my laundry. or walk to the places i go to be social. or walk home from those places.

if it's meant to be, maybe we'll see each other in that setting
and i'll be all ears, if you come correct

otherwise, LET ME WALK DOWN THE STREET AND LEAVE ME ALONE

With they tongue out...

I got a limited world view
:(

couldn't even get the newer ES300 joint, had to be a My First Lexus ES250.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

how to make a conservation with women? really???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAN1msFgBjU

>damn NY
>
>http://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A


______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg

that was scary

sigh :(

us all finna die if he don't holla at that woman!!!

do you not understand how high the stakes are for him???!!?

if he don't holla he's weak. he's not a man if he don't say something to her right then!

think about what he's going through!

or been so attractive...

so you know its HER FAULT NOT HIS!!!

she might be THE GRANDMOTHER OF HIS GRANDCHILDREN!!!!

#levels

nigga just said fuck it...im just gonna scare her since she don't like me

that's the type of shit that just be like...*bangs gavel*

for 2 blocks. It was just so dark, no stores open yet. He was constantly trying to get me to walk over to his car and talk to him. That shit is just not logical to me. It's why I carry a knife. Fuck outta my face. Im so tired of this subject, I can't even say nothing else. It's like no matter what some men will never get it.

it's dark

get over yourself you damn millenial

It was really really dark, I'm sure he didn't even see how I looked.

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iran-acid-attacks-20141027-story.html

and yall in here mad about niggas sayin "hey smile!"
talkin bout its sexual assault.

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

http://www.nbc4i.com/story/26738542/woman-tells-police-she-was-set-on-fire


Woman Sexually Assaulted, Set On Fire Along Blacklick Trail
Posted: Oct 08, 2014 3:08 PM CST Updated: Oct 09, 2014 6:51 AM CST
By: Jason Mays, Assignment Manager
Connect
By: Denise Yost, Multimedia Content Manager
Connect

COLUMBUS, Ohio - A woman told police she was sexually assaulted and set on fire while walking along a trail on the southeast side of the city Wednesday afternoon.

Columbus police and EMS personnel were called to the Blacklick Trail near Winchester Pike and Shannon Road on a report of an assault at about 3:19 p.m. Wednesday.

A passerby told police he saw a person on fire, and called 911.

Upon arrival, a woman told officers that she was grabbed and dragged into the bushes while walking along the trail. She said a man sexually assaulted her and then used an accelerant and set her on fire.

The woman, who is in her 20s, was transported to the The Ohio State University's Wexner Medical Center with first- and second-degree burns to her chest. Her injuries were considered non-life-threatening.

Police and park officials are looking for a white male described as having a thin build and bushy eyebrows. He was clean shaven, and was wearing dark pants, a hooded sweatshirt, and reddish gloves.

Anyone with information is asked to call police at 614-645-4545.

what's your point?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/bystanders-rushed-to-gwu-students-aid-as-she-was-being-attacked-in-campus-area/2014/10/21/b023dc4e-5917-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html


By Peter Hermann and Miles Parks October 21

A few hours before dawn Sunday, a man pulled a George Washington University student into the bushes and threatened to rape her. She screamed and pulled away, and she was able to escape on a street cutting through the Foggy Bottom campus.

Even as campus police responded to the woman’s call for help, placed from a nearby hospital, the man attacked another student, threw her to the ground and tried to take off her pants, authorities said. Bystanders went to the woman’s rescue and pointed a police officer to where the man was hiding, authorities said, and he was quickly arrested.

The two incidents are among several sexual assaults or attempts that occurred within a few hours early Sunday in Northwest Washington — in Foggy Bottom, Georgetown and the Dupont Circle neighborhood.

D.C. police have indicated that, apart from the Foggy Bottom incidents, the attacks at the three locations appear unrelated.

The suspect in the Foggy Bottom attacks has been identified as Mustapha Kone, 46, of no fixed address. He is charged with assault with intent to commit first-degree sexual assault, felony threats, kidnapping and simple assault. He has been ordered detained until a preliminary hearing Thursday in D.C. Superior Court. A university spokeswoman confirmed that the victims are students and that the school is “providing resources and support” to them.

Several GWU students said Tuesday that they feel safe on campus during the day, when it typically is bustling. But they said the situation becomes more worrisome in some areas at night.

“Normally, I really don’t walk around at night, but if I do, I try to be aware of the area,” said Kayla Lichtenberger, 22, a psychology major who lives in a 12-story apartment-style dorm near where the attacks occurred. “I only put one headphone in when I walk around at night.”

Students said areas of concern after dark include the Metro station and nearby parks. “Walking to tutoring last night, I saw four police cars,” she said. “I guess maybe they are trying to up the manpower.”

Divya Angra, 22, a medical school student, said that “these things usually happen really late at night or early in the morning.” One of her friends, Karolina Jaluba, 27, also a medical student, said that when she walks at night, she goes on high alert. “I walk home really quickly. I turn around and look,” she said. “I get freaked out really easily.”

The assault in the Dupont Circle area occurred in a car Sunday about 3:45 a.m. The victim described the assailant only as a man with dreadlocks who was wearing khaki pants. Police said they were looking for a silver-colored sedan. Three passengers were in the car at the time of the assault, police said.

About 6:30 a.m., police said a woman was sexually assaulted on Prospect Street, just north of M Street NW. A Georgetown University spokeswoman would not say whether the victim is a student, but she said the attack occurred in an area where about 1,000 students live off campus.

The school issued a public-safety alert saying only that a man had entered a house and assaulted a woman inside. D.C. police provided a more detailed description: a Hispanic man in his 20s, about 5 feet 7 inches tall, cleanshaven and last seen wearing a black leather jacket.

The Foggy Bottom attacks occurred about 3:20 a.m. According to a police affidavit, a man wearing a yellow sweater approached a GWU student near George Washington University Hospital and the Metro station and put his arm around her shoulder. He “told her to come into the bushes with him because he wanted to show her something,” the affidavit states.

When the student tried to remove the man’s arm, he tightened his hold, the affidavit says, and he forced her into some bushes. He threatened to kill her and tried to grab her as she pulled away, the affidavit says. She screamed and was able to escape.

A few minutes later, the affidavit says, the man accosted another student. The affidavit says that the woman asked the man not to follow her and that he grabbed her and threw her to the ground, causing her head to hit the pavement. The woman screamed, and several people rushed to her aid as the man limped away, the affidavit says. A university police officer arrested the suspect within minutes.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/woman-assaulted-after-checking-on-welfare-of-man-at-jamboree-heights/story-fnihsrf2-1227100302027?nk=681191eb6d6359db0caf62deb6c64909

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

when they're going to become one of these stories. they don't know that the stranger who approaches them on the street won't violently attack them. and it's not right for strange men to subject women to that fear just b/c those men want to fuck.

street harassment =/= an actual assault

I understand drawing the equivalency in order to heighten sensitivity to the dilemma
but all that does is make men respond by saying "oh I'm a rapist now for saying hi on the street?! fuck that!" i.e. this post
and disserves the point of trying to make other people get that women feel their lives are in danger when they hear catcalls.
as you can see in this post, that's a REALLLLLY hard thing for men to even comprehend, let alone understand and sympathize with
trying to imply it's a criminal act is not the solution
I don't know what is, but it's not that

-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault
Assault
Definition

1. Intentionally putting another person in reasonable apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. No intent to cause physical injury needs to exist, and no physical injury needs to result. So defined in tort law and the criminal statutes of some states.

2. With the intent to cause physical injury, making another person reasonably apprehend an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Essentially, an attempted battery. So defined in the criminal statutes of some states.

3. With the intent to cause physical injury, actually causing such injury to another person. Essentially, the same as a battery. So defined in the criminal statutes of some states, and so understood in popular usage.

gotcha.
i'll go ahead and turn myself in too, since last week a girl dropped her scarf and I picked it up and said "excuse me" to give it to her and she ran away.
no room for error.
-----
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (c) HL Mencken or some other motherfucker.

and ain't nobody arguing for the men who holla to be charged as criminals, necessarily. that straw man ain't got no legs.

or being followed for more than five minutes is not assault

FOH

the US has a serious problem with violence against women and misogyny. a symptom of this is how people blame domestic violence victims for being domestic violence victims.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/26/nyregion/connecticut-teenager-is-fatally-stabbed-by-fellow-student-police-say.html



Girl Fatally Stabbed at School in Connecticut on Day of Prom
By NATE SCHWEBER and MICHAEL SCHWIRTZAPRIL 25, 2014
Photo

After Maren Sanchez, 16, was killed at Jonathan Law High School in Milford, Conn. classmates painted a rock on campus her favorite color, purple. Family and friends, some in prom attire, later held a vigil for her at Walnut Beach, also in Milford. Credit Wendy Carlson for The New York Times

MILFORD, Conn. — A 16-year-old student was stabbed to death in the hallway of a high school here on Friday morning, the day of the school’s junior prom.

The authorities arrested a 16-year-old male student and charged him as a juvenile with murder, and the police said they were looking into reports that a dispute about the prom might have prompted the attack.

The killing occurred around 7:15 a.m., just as the school day was about to begin. Students crammed the halls of Jonathan Law High School, some giddily anticipating donning gowns and tuxedos later that day.

A scream cut the air, and there was momentary confusion as students were hustled into classrooms and told to stay. In one of the halls beneath a stairwell, Maren Sanchez, a well-liked member of the drama club known for her singing voice, lay dying.

Chief Keith Mello of the Milford Police Department said that officials had not made any rulings on possible motives, but that investigators were looking into reports that the victim had declined an invitation to the prom from the suspect, whose name the authorities did not release because he is a minor. The prom was postponed.

Photo

Maren Sanchez
“This is a very raw, a very fresh investigation,” the police chief said.

Tyler Curtin, 16, a junior at the school who said he had known Ms. Sanchez and the suspected attacker since they were in sixth grade together, said the attacker was dejected when she turned down his invitation. “He liked her for a while,” Mr. Curtin said. “She just got a new boyfriend.”

Mr. Curtin said he was in the media center just before the first class of the day at 7:20 a.m. He said the librarian reported hearing what sounded like someone falling down the stairs, called 911 and told all of the students to stay there.

Immediately after the attack, staff members and a police officer assigned to the school subdued the suspect, Chief Mello said.

Some staff members tried to resuscitate Ms. Sanchez as students ran for safety, the authorities and witnesses said.

Continue reading the main story

CONNECTICUT
1
Orange
Stratford
Milford
95
Site of stabbing
Jonathan Law High School
1
MASS.
CONNECTICUT
Long Island
Sound
New Haven
Milford
2 MILES
LONG ISLAND
“I saw someone lying there, a teacher was hysterical, the librarian was freaking,” said Rebecca Golden, 17. “I guess they were trying to help.”

Ms. Sanchez had cuts to her neck, chest and face, the Police Department said in a statement. She was pronounced dead at 7:43 a.m. at Bridgeport Hospital.

Classes continued and students said they knew little of the attack until the school was evacuated about 9 a.m. Sarah Golden, a freshman, said students were initially told that Ms. Sanchez had not been gravely wounded, though rumors spread rapidly on Twitter, where students created a hashtag, #prayformaren. Ms. Golden said she did not hear that Ms. Sanchez had died until about 10 a.m., when she saw it on the television news.

Edward Kovac, a cousin, who acted as a spokesman for Ms. Sanchez’s family, said more must be done to protect children from violence at school.

“The unprovoked attack on Maren this morning has unfortunately for our family resulted in the permanent loss of Maren Victoria Sanchez, a bright light full of hopes and dreams with her future at her fingertips,” Mr. Kovac said. “Maren should be celebrating at her prom this evening with her friends and classmates. Instead, we are mourning her death and we are trying as a community to understand the senseless loss of life.”

Photo

Family and friends, some in prom attire, released balloons at Walnut Beach during a vigil in honor of Ms. Sanchez in Milford, Conn., on Friday. Credit Michelle Mcloughlin/Reuters
Among her many roles at the high school, Ms. Sanchez had served as class president, manager of the swim and softball teams and a member of the drama club. Last year she won the school’s talent show with a rendition of “Home” by Phillip Phillips. She was also in the National Honor Society and other service clubs.

“She was the most beautiful person I knew,” Annalyse Rose DeLucca, 16, said. “She had a very big heart. She never let anybody feel left out. Every time I saw her she had a smile on her face.”

Recently, she was cast in “Little Shop of Horrors,” a musical comedy scheduled to be shown next Friday and Saturday in the high school auditorium, said Michael Mele, the drama program’s adviser. She was involved in some key puppetry in the show, a role at which flashier students might have turned up their noses: operating Audrey II, the giant man-eating plant.

“Her natural ease of just being able to manipulate this giant avocado-looking plant” clinched the role for her, Mr. Mele said.

The suspect will be formally arraigned in Juvenile Court in New Haven on Monday. A knife was recovered from the scene, authorities said.

Photo

The vigil on Walnut Beach. Credit Wendy Carlson for The New York Times
The suspect’s lawyer did not respond to a message seeking comment.

Instead of attending the prom, students of the junior class wearing their tuxedos and dresses, joined hundreds of others on Friday evening for a memorial on Walnut Beach in Milford. At one point, a man told the crowd to shout the two words that came to mind about Ms. Sanchez.

“Best Friend!”

“Great Smile!”

Then 20 purple balloons were released into the air.

When the group broke up, young men in black, gray and white tuxedos marched down the beach followed by young women in peach, turquoise, crimson and black dresses. They walked to the end of a long pier and clustered again, above a pewter sea.

They shouted in unison: “Maren!”

Nate Schweber reported from Milford, and Michael Schwirtz from New York. Reporting was contributed by Alison Leigh Cowan, Matthew Lloyd-Thomas, Marc Santora and Kirsten Schnackenberg, and research by Alain Delaquérière.

A version of this article appears in print on April 26, 2014, on page A1 of the New York edition with the headline: Girl Fatally Stabbed at School in Connecticut on Day of Prom. Order Reprints|Today's Paper|Subscribe

and the thing is OKP isn't bizaro world.

because this vocal minority in OKP is the majority in the actual world

men upset because "it's always been like this", this first world women and their complaining wah wah wah

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/07/mary-spears-killed-detroit_n_5945518.html

but i'm barely defending this

i'd sign a street holler reformation law

but not necessarily one that would completely abolish it lol

how many men defending this are in relationships with people they got by "holla'ing" in the streets.

I'd bet none. Cause theyre creepy fucks who think it's chivalrous on some fucked up level. "Women want to be appreciated for their beauty" cause their gramma told them that in her old ass rocking chair.

And I'd do it again 100x

She was bad, and I took my shot

Yall would have me die dry, dusty, old and single. Fuck you and fuck that


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

Kinda but kinda not

I'm under strict orders to not discuss anything associated with her, me, us or we here tho so you just gonna have to take my word for it


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

I heard the story of how you met from old girl herself and it definitely did not go down like that

The previous 15 minutes of convo did not do anything but prime the pump for the inevitable


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

make his point.

we did not meet on a street corner
we met inside an establishment
sat next to one another
after said establishment
we all, a group of folks moved onto another spot
we as a group, loitered in front of the restaurant
and planned where we were going

did we speak more on the street, yes
but there was not a STREET holla as the video depicts.

>did we speak more on the street, yes


im done.

How you gonna tell me what I did

Always in the mix wasn't nobody even talking to you

Go find a buffet or something

http://soundcloud.com/djshinobishaw
http://www.rareformnyc.com
http://twitter.com/DJShinobiShaw
https://twitter.com/RareFormNYC
PSN: ShinobiShaw

"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510

could have been even longer if i wasn't threatened by her baby father repeatedly lol

she was probably the finest woman i had ever met too

but that nigga already had bodies...i wasn't trying become another one...that 4 months was nice as hell though...

the 3 weeks where i didn't even see/meet the baby father was incredible

i think most pursuits start out with solely or mainly sexual interest (though some don't) but i can't think of any of mine that didn't

it was on an urban campus tho... lol.

but we did meet on the street.

just trying to see why ppl dont think public hollers
can exist without being weird or scary

what's on display in that youtube clip. I mean come the fuck on people!

I, for one, am single and almost NEVER holla at women on the street but in the VERY rare cases that I do it's always w/ tact and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some eggheaded, nose-in-the-air type brawd make me out to be some gotdamn miscreant for making a comment to a member of the opposite sex that I deem worthy of an audible compliment. Fuck all the way outta here!

clutch ya pearls HARDER.

You simply want to define harassment to your convenience
Racists like to define racism to theirs
Police also get to define their abuse
Lucky yall huh?
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

it was once considered harassment for my Black ass to merely exist let alone be seen in certain spheres.

you sound pressed as fck
and why i said folks in here defending harassment are likely single
id venture youll be that way for awhile w this attitude

>

>it was once considered harassment for my Black ass to merely
>exist let alone be seen in certain spheres.

saying hello to white men and women in the street?


no...no you 'combat' this by 'asserting your 'right' to be heard
only specifically to women you deem attractive
man interesting how your rights trample on others
how...convenient
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

its not up to you what is considered harassment. harassment does not need intention. it just needs to make another person feel threatened or reasonably uncomfortable. your intentions are of no consequence and that is what you don't get. THIS STILL ISNT ABOUT YOU.

not talking to people you dont know without an introduction or some OBVIOUS (keyword here) body language or eye contact that it's a go?

this comin from someone that don't holla

----------------------------------------
www.rappersiknow.com
www.twitter.com/fwmj

re:
>or some OBVIOUS (keyword here) body language or eye contact

because some men think that a woman doesn't REALLY know what she wants. if she's initially disinterested, he can convince her, through dogged persistence, what her "true desires and wants" are. see: romantic movies.

this goes back to my earlier point that men need to be taught, starting at a young age, to follow social cues in ALL interactions.

you think the guys in the video are able to figure that out like reasonable people?

i can't really dispute the first part though I tend to resist the urge to agree with it anyway

What she thinks or feels?

She might be looking at me...but she might be looking thru me not even seeing me

I am not a mind reader. All I know is what I want. And if I don't open my mouth and say or act like I want her, then there's a 100% chance I will never know

And so

The solution is women need to start hollering at more men

Then all this shit woukd even out


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

Rather than hmmm she's cute. Let's talk to her

I should think

She's cute. But she's probably deathly afraid of me. She may want to talk to me. But she may not. She's looking at me! But what if she's looking at someone else? Did she smile? I can't tell. Maybe she will come talk to me. I'll wait.

*crickets*

Gee...which alternative would be more successful more often then not?


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

me me me me me me me me me meeeee


but that's Bin for ya

It's getting clearer


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

men should actually think about what she's going through. as evidenced by videos like the one in the OP.

men should stop being defensive and actually take in what these women are putting out.

it won't hurt.

Aha!

Gotcha

I sincerely don't care, as I don't street holla and woukd gladly beat someone to death for doing so to a loved one after she told em to beat it

But I'm just playing my part as I'm sure you can tell

does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

Who is this dusty nigga? Is he finna...

Lord.

Maybe if i just say 'hey' back he'll stop.

Maybe if i just look at the ground he won't come after me.

What if i look out at the street, will he leave me alone?

If i stop and have a conversation w/him will that end it?

I mean, he's kinda cute, I guess.

I just wish he'd leave me alone.

Ugh. I just need to go cash this check; I ain't got time for no bullshit.

If I don't say something back to him he might come at me.

But if I do say something back he might come at me.

Maybe if I speak to him first he'll leave me alone.

But if I speak to him first he'll think I'm interested.

And really I just need to get home before Scandal comes on.

these chicks screaming misogyny and whatever else
would have their minds blown
women will say ANYTHING
rarely is it respectful
and i know for a fact they dont care what i think lol
complete strangers tellin me to pull out my dick
let me climb you
i can suck yo dick standing up
these are all real

i just laugh that shit off and keep it moving

You was born on third base with a head start towards home, I'm glad you recognize you're not special


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

real live pimpin in my blood

Lmao

how many stories have you heard from fellow men who've told you about times they were afraid b/c they didn't say or do the right thing in response to an unsolicited holla?

for me, i have been accosted unsolicited too and i'm thankful that i rarely feared for my safety. one of the times i was afraid i was dressed in drag and the guy who came at me had this look in his eye i'd never seen except in the movies or in cartoons when a predator is staring down prey. i told him i was a man in drag and that only made it worse. he didn't back down. and i didn't know what was going to happen. and i wasn't sure i could take him if he jumped bad. and i didn't have a razor or knife in my purse b/c i wasn't and am not a drag queen (this was for a costume party). i got out of the situation b/c a friend appeared in the nick of time. but...damn.

have any of those women put that fear in you?

the women we're discussing in this post - they experience a fear from these hollas pretty regularly.

Sooo big. Caught me slipping in the gap and barked at me, I didn't know whether to shit or go blind


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

I was with my crew at the Big Boy's on Jefferson Ave over by Belle Isle. Big Broad Brigade walked in and sat not too far from us. One took a liking to me and decided to waddle her ass on over to me and threw on the full court press. I was polite and cordial but told her nicely that I wasn't interested. She then began talking about her money, how her and her family sell dope and she could keep me in clothes and shit and every now and then dropped shit about her guns and how her cousins and 'nem stay strapped up.

We got done and got up to leave, she grabbed my arm and was like "you ain't gonna give me the number?" after which I told her, again, that I was cool on that. She got pissed and followed me out to my boy's ride, talkin shit the whole way on some "fuck you then nigga" shit.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

now imagine if you dealt w/that every week. everywhere. imagine how much that'd put you on edge when you're dealing w/strangers who approach you on the street. even when they seem to have good intentions. even when they're respectful.

i wouldn't want to live like that. and i shouldn't have to - especially when there's such an easy fix for it. the ppl who engage in that conduct can and should just stop it. simple stuff. but they won't b/c they feel entitled to disturb me. that would drive me mad.

Chix just as aggressive as dudes these days

Hence my reply

but I'm from, and in, the South, though

youre automatically a weirdo

the women with 'nice bodies'.

>but I'm from, and in, the South, though

As well as the "blacker" parts of Phoenix where a lot of Southern transplants settled.

I think I'mma stick to what I said earlier and say that this is largely an NYC problem more than it is anything else. Sure the street holler will happen elsewhere, but not to this degree or frequency.

I dare say that even an attractive woman might get largely ignored in downtown Phoenix during any part of the day or night except Late Thursdays and Friday/ Saturday night.



---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

as long as men are the ones expected to be the aggressor (and i dont just mean in the street. i mean when it comes to genuine interest, hookups, etc), some (or many) are gonna take that necessity too far since they lack nuance or empathy (or common sense). also, if the success rate is anywhere near at least 1%, those same cats are gonna keep doing it. im not letting men off the hook or blaming women, but as long as the dynamics are the way they are (for a large % of the population), I don't see how this is ever going to change.

we can police it and shame it and that might even eliminate a bit of it

on the other hand. men don't understand how bothersome all the attention is.

it's a real visceral reaction for a man to be stopped dead in his tracks at the sight of a 'nice (or lose) looking lady'.

it's a about seeing someone that looks good and just needing to say SOMETHING.

not saying something is a sign that you've given up on life and all the surprises it has to offer.

personally, i don't street-holla, not because it's mean or rude, or because i have a loving mother and sister, but because my chances are simply better if i don't.

"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

These videos seem to be exaggerating the issue by purposefully using attractive women, but what happens when a "plain jane" or "unattractive" woman walks down the street? How do they feel when they see these attractive women getting all this attention that they never get? Wouldn't this kind of contribute more to self esteem issues?


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

I've seen other videos made with less conventionally attractive women. I've seen them made with women dressed in frumpy clothes. It made no difference. So, no...that thing you 'wonder' about ain't a thing.

http://the-unpopular-opinions.tumblr.com/post/76791821745/the-opposite-end-of-traditional-street

"The Opposite end of traditional “street harassment”: the girl who never get’s cat called

In feminist spaces I see a lot of feminists complain about being street harassed. I read about it and I totally sympathize with their experiences, even though I have never experienced them myself. I am a female myself but am not conventionally attractive. I am not hideous but more or less a plain jane. On top of that I have ALWAYS valued comfort over style, so dressing feminine isn’t something I do on a regular basis. I wear a lot of loose jeans and T-shirts. But yeah, anyway, know that I am not trying to play “who has it harder” or anything but rather I am making this to share my experiences of getting the opposite end of the shit-covered stick that is street harassment that I don’t see being mentioned. I call it street dismissal.

When I say street dismissal I am talking about men who feel the need to subtly announce that unattractive women are not worthy of respect or acknowledgement because they are not a conventionally attractive female or their fellow man. "


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

i'd engage in this w/you if i thought you were actually concerned about the topic at hand and weren't merely seeking to derail the conversation. but i'm pretty convinced that's your angle and so i'm not engaging in this w/you.

>It's my fault for actually getting invested in the topic
>while talking to assholes like you who are more interested in
>derailing the conversation. My bad.

I wasn't derailing anything. But, like anything else in this world there's more than one perspective to take into account.

Sure, to the attractive woman and even, to a lesser degree, the plain jane the street holler is an annoying part of life.

But...

There also exists the woman that NEVER get's hollered at on the street, never gets cat calls, that wishes that she might get a compliment from a random man as these "better looking" women get. Does anyone ever consider these women?

No.

Likewise there are women out there that absolutely thrive on the attention they get all day long and would find it odd if a day went by where someone didn't compliment her or try to holler. Does anyone ever consider those women?

No.

As fare as people like you are concerned, they don't exist. They're figments of our collective imaginations. Only women that get harassed daily for hours on end exist and for them, we must end the street holler.


---------------------------

forcing myself to actually respond to you is like bathing in ebola virus. - Binlahab

Like there is stupid, and then there is you, and then there is dead. - VAsBestBBW

R.I.P. Disco D

perspective that you've conveniently dismissed on the sus grounds of him having an ulterior motive. Why you assuming shit?

nor is this the first time i've read one of his posts. so i have an idea where this is going.

w/o reservation. why the pause all of sudden? Could it be this new perspective presents somewhat of a conundrum to your initial stance on the issue?

it's a completely collateral issue that has no bearing on the topic at hand which is how i know it's only presented to derail the conversation. again, i'm not brand new. i also know that the issue isn't being presented out of any genuine concern for the women who are subjected to 'street dismissal' - it's only being brought up in an attempt to discredit/dismiss the effort to curb street harassment. it's pretty plain to me based on context. plus i don't like you or that guy PoppaGeorge. put all together and it adds up to me not discussing this w/him. or you.

i notice i get hollered at less when my hair is covered.

if i put on my frumpy disguise, i get less hollers.

i mean, i still get messed with, but nowhere to the degree that i would if i was dressed like the woman in the video.

but the point is that i should be able to wear whatever and dress however the fuck i want to.

and i've seen video that proves otherwise.

but that's not the point and so i'm not going there in this discussion.

whatever that is worth.

Surprise surprise.

>Surprise surprise.

but i shouldn't be.

it's pretty well spread across all races.

i think its way more embedded into black culture than it is other cultures.

and you should read more about it:

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/our-work/meetusonthestreet/

http://www.meetusonthestreet.org/

http://www.ihollaback.org/blog/2014/04/04/week-in-our-shoes-international-anti-street-harassment-week-edition/

i mean, i agree with a lot of what youre saying in this post. i really do. but some things get lost in politicizing the issue.

you dont have to tell me shit about how it really is. i dont need you to show me the issue. this is my reality every time i walk out the house.

you trying to educate me on this is like me trying to educate you on what its like to be a gay man walking the streets. sometimes you gotta just sit back and listen.

it's going on outside the USA among non-blacks and blacks alike. so though you think this is mostly a black thing based on your limited experience, it's not a black thing. it's a ppl thing, generally. and i posted links to sites that will point you to stories from women who have experienced this harassment outside a black context to prove that point.

im just saying its more prevalent in black areas. its more embedded into black culture.

--

but i think black ppl are more community-oriented. maybe you could say more social.

i think black men are more hyper masculine and feel the need to assert their masculinity with this type of behavior.

i think the relationship dynamics between black men and black women are so poor that it kinda breeds this type of behavior. the way women are portrayed and talked about in rap/hip-hop influences how men treat women in public.

also, i have a fair amount of nonblack friends and ive never heard them complain about this to the extent that my black friends have. and i myself have rarely dealt with street harassment when walking through a white neighborhood.

you ever hang out in a non-black, working class community for an extended period of time?

Black men are, in general, the boogiemen of the world, but a lot of that is str8 game.

I ain't telling you your experience, but I'm telling you your experience ain't ALL experience

In general.

What's the point of even engaging in this conversation if youre not serious, or seeking a genuine response? Bored? What?

my plan was to rib you for thinking that Black men are more aggressive w/the street holla.

you're wrong about that but you won't see it until you're older, i think. it's cool.

you're in the legal sector, correct? can i msg you an education question? doesn't look like i can inbox you.

but i can open it up.

thanks if you do.

lol

my point was that this is a bigger problem than her and her experience. it's a worldwide problem. it's not mainly a black man thing it's a universal man thing. it may seem to her that it's mostly about black men b/c in her experience black men are the main ones doing the harassing. but her experience is limited. and i posted links to stories and efforts from advocates worldwide to show that this is not just or mainly a black man problem.

plus i don't see how focusing on black men will do much to address the issue since so many other men engage in the unwanted behavior. i don't know that there are specific interventions that should be tailored to black men that will help us solve this problem. it seems to be a man thing, generally. so even if we get all black men on board w/ending street harassment, it'll still be a HUGE problem b/c so many non-black men engage in the behavior.

plus i'm a black man and i felt defensive. sure. lol.

would white dudes in williamsburg be acting like that?

and other men of color are (trams & cis) Black/WOC. That does not excuse the behavior of the men in the video but it'd be nice if people who made the video showed her walking thru the financial district or predominately white hoods. Like this ad is definitely playing into racist & sexist tropes. Still, race & class are things that affect street harassment & that makes people uncomfortable lol, so it's universalized as a thing men do w/out acknowledging that different races/classes experience gender differently & street harass women differently.

Disproportionately poor and working class (majority?).

My white girlfriends back in LA got street hollered just as much by white, middle class men-
The unwanted attention is still present in their community

To tell a group that an issue that totally doesn't affect me and affects them exclusively, isn't a big deal.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

on the other it makes me intensely paranoid to the point that I cant sleep because I feel like im being stalked.

this issue isn't street hollering or men just admiring women or whatever, the issue is that there is no regard for the woman as a human being who has feelings and a life, like theres no respect. like have you ever been walking through a crowd or standing on a bus or something and just been felt up. like you don't know who it is but someone just thought it was okay to just touch you as if you were a tree or something. this idea is so permeated in our culture that street hollering is just the tip of the iceburg, its not even the iceberg its just the cold ass water. I was watching movie last night and it was about jack the ripper and it was so weird seeing the origin of all this pimp hoe shit in *gasp* british culture. whores being seen as the lowest of the low and sliced up, opened up, totally just mutilated, for our ENTERTAINMENT as movie goers. like, we are entertained and titillated by women as just pure objects and we see something evil and wrong with their sexuality and we project that in all kinds of fucked up ways. women even do this to themselves its not a men versus women thing, its just internalized on a deep level. I could go on forever about this subject but its a sore spot for me

Why his he following her ??? Am I ugly. And she doesn't even have on make up and heels. Just jeans and sneakers!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsC6AnxCIAAWB32.jpg

I have won 7 times in this post


SMH

WOW

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

WOW

Most of the dudes in these vids are severely uneducated, and if they are educated, they are unattractive to y'all

Im sorry but in Chicago I rarely see shit like this,

*waits for sowhat's obligatory counterpoint*

stupidity has no prerequisites. ive seen the smartest book smart people in the world borderline date rape girls at university parties.

to assume these guys in the vid are uneducated is more racist than anything.

you can stop being defensive. stop feeling convicted. stop making this about you. b/c it's not.

the second thing you can do is speak up if you witness your peers behaving like this. or challenge them when they trade stories about this behavior.

obviously since you don't engage in this behavior you don't have to stop doing it yourself b/c you don't already.

>Most of the dudes in these vids are severely uneducated, and
>if they are educated, they are unattractive to y'all
>
>Im sorry but in Chicago I rarely see shit like this,

i live in chicago and it happens all the time

My unit to a fruit tray or something tomorrow and to think this has been going on for decades

and double LOL @ acting like you just found out women get holla'd at on the street of NYC

you gon be happy?

its like you guys actually live in a completely different world. most of you have never been raped, molested, or abused because of your gender. most of you have never had the world view ingrained that you were inferior and weaker and needed protection by and from a man. like you literally just have no idea what the problem is.

how do we bridge this gap? like its just basic common sense. being harassed is SCARY. like its not just annoying, its like there's a threat of physical violence that is very very real in the world that we live in. like...you don't need to be a feminist to understand that women should be treated as HUMANS. like, not as trees or plants or garden shrubs. like all living beings should be treated with respect but can we start with the opposite gender? with people whose skin color is different? with our own skins? like ultimately i'm just fighting with my own reflection *shakes head*

until of course its they mama, sister, cousin wife, GF, daughter


then oh THEN its not longer complimentary
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>until of course its they mama, sister, cousin wife, GF,
>daughter
>
>
>then oh THEN its not longer complimentary
>~~~~
>When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so
>that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
>~~~~
>You cannot hate people for their own good.


Like grown men hollering at teen girls. I don't like that.

because after all, one day we won't be attractive anymore and we'll be WANTING that male attention.

smh

>because after all, one day we won't be attractive anymore and
>we'll be WANTING that male attention.
>
>smh

like we are not our vaginas, we have brains

You're just sorry it's not getting type of attention nor seriousness you deemed it worth
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Not sure what you mean by older but here are some samples:


"Damn ma I like older women holla at me"

"I know you married but yo husband probably aint doin it for you no more right"

"Oooh I bet you hitting yo sexual peak right now"

"I heard older women are freakier"

You were sayin. . .
*****************************************
http://prettyperiod.me/

http://youtu.be/u8bIK3bWgog<;--HAHA

can't wait for it to stop completely. i don't need it...i don't need some random guy to tell me i'm hot/pretty/sexy/beautiful in order to feel like i'm any of those things. and on the flip side, anyone feeling a pressing need to tell me how ugly i am (i see you Angelo) is also wasting their breath...

thanks but me and my self esteem are good.

d

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2014-National-SSH-Street-Harassment-Report.pdf

that the people that really need to be reading this in this thread aren't all about to sigh and "tl;dr" this piece.

It prevents equality.
No country has achieved gender equality, nor have they reached equality for members of the LGBTIQA
community. Street harassment is a symptom of that inequality, and it keeps harassed persons from fully
participating and thriving in the world. If we want to see equality for every person, we must work to end
street harassment.

Why a national study?
To stop street harassment, we first must change the all-too-common social attitude that it’s not a big deal
or that it’s simply a compliment. Changing social attitudes takes time, and data can help. While there have
been other studies conducted in the United States (see Appendix C), this is the first comprehensive
national study to look at the experiences of both women and men and the intersection of race, sexual
orientation, and income. It also has the largest sample size to date

Key Findings.*1
1. Street harassment is a significant problem in the United States.
Sixty-five percent of women reported experiencing at least one type of street harassment in their
lifetimes. More than half (57%) of all women had experienced verbal harassment, and 41% of all
women had experienced physically aggressive forms, including sexual touching (23%), following
(20%), flashing (14%), and being forced to do something sexual (9%). For men, 25% experienced
street harassment, too, including 18% who experienced verbal harassment and 16% who
experienced physically aggressive forms. More men who identified as LGBT experienced
harassment than men who identified as heterosexual.
In many ways, persons of color, lower-income people, and persons who identify as lesbian, gay,
bisexual, or transgender were disproportionately affected by street harassment overall, as
detailed in the main body of the report.

2. Street harassment happens multiple times to most people.
Eighty-six percent of women and 79% of men who reported being harassed said they had been
harassed more than once. Women were more likely than men to say it happened sometimes,
often, or daily.

3. Street harassment begins at a young age.
Around 50% of harassed women and men experienced street harassment by age 17.

4. Most harassed people were at least somewhat concerned that the incident would
escalate.
Two-thirds of the harassed women (68%) and half of the harassed men (49%) said they were
very or somewhat concerned that the incident would escalate into something worse. Nearly twice
as many women (25%) as men (13%) said they were very concerned.

5. Most harassed persons change their lives in some way as a result of the
experience.
The most common change was for harassed people to constantly assess their surroundings as a
result of harassment (47% of women and 32% of men). Going places in a group or with another
person instead of alone was another common response for women (31%). On the more extreme
end, 4% of all harassed persons said they made a big life decision like quitting a job or moving
neighborhoods because of harassers.

6. Street harassment doesn’t just happen on the streets.
Streets and sidewalks are the public spaces where street harassment most commonly occurs
(67% of women and 43% of men reported harassment there), but harassment also happened in
public spaces such as stores, restaurants, movie theaters, and malls (26% of women and 28% of
men). It also happened on public transportation (20% of women and 16% of men).

7. Men are overwhelmingly the harassers of both women and men.
Being harassed by one man was cited as the most common experience by both women (70%)
and men (48%). It was also common to be harassed by two or more men (38% of women and
25% of men). Twenty percent of men said their harasser was a lone woman.

8. When experiencing or witnessing harassment, half of the respondents had a
proactive response at least once.
Around half (53%) of all survey respondents said that at least once they had done something
proactive about harassment they experienced or witnessed. The most common response was to
tell a harasser to stop or back off (31% of women and 25% of men).

9. Most people believe there are actions we can take to stop street harassment.
Among all respondents, 91% believed there are ways to stop street harassment. Most
recommended more security cameras and increased police presence in communities (55%) or
educational workshops in schools and communities about respectful ways to interact with
strangers and information about street harassment (53%) as ways to curb street harassment.
More training of law enforcement and transit workers, community safety audits, and awareness
campaigns were also suggested.
Street harassment affects millions of people, especially women, in significant ways. This report is a call to
action for everyone, including educators, businesses, community leaders, national leaders, activist
groups, journalists, and individuals, to do something about it. Together, we can work to end street
harassment.

*1 The percentages in numbers two through seven represent the share of individuals who reported having
experienced some street harassment. As such, the percentages for men and women may be similar but a
larger number of women are affected because more women than men experience street harassment.
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Nothing has surprised me about the study. But I hope that people at least read your summation. This study just solidified most of what we've been talking about in this post.

1. its not just black people.
2. its not just women being harassed.
3. It IS harassment.
4. It IS scary, more so for women, but for the harassed all the same.
5. it's not just in NYC/LA/Chi/etc. It's everywhere.
6. It is not sexy or wanted.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://stoptellingwomentosmile.com/

About
Stop Telling Women to Smile is an art series by Tatyana Fazlalizadeh. The work attempts to address gender based street harassment by placing drawn portraits of women, composed with captions that speak directly to offenders, outside in public spaces.

Tatyana Falalizadeh is an illustrator/painter based in Brooklyn, mostly known for her oil paintings. Having recently branched out into public art as a muralist, STWTS was born out of the idea that street art can be an impactful tool for tackling street harassment.

STWTS started in Brooklyn in the fall of 2012. It is an on-going, travelling series and will gradually include many cities and many women participants.

Street harassment is a serious issue that affects women world wide. This project takes women’s voices, and faces, and puts them in the street - creating a bold presence for women in an environment where they are so often made to feel uncomfortable and unsafe.

http://stoptellingwomentosmile.bigcartel.com/


most awesome person ever for this project
=)
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

nnm

I remember walking to catch the train to middle school and this grown man following me in his car trying to talk to me. I finally screamed, "I'm only 11," and he drove away. I was so afraid. I've had similar incidents over the years and it's still scary. Even wearing hijab doesn't help. It just shifts from the overtly sexual to the pseudo-conscious hollas. Sickening!

This was also right near the school. Like 1 block over.

Mixed Puerto Rican and Dominican neighborhood. Shit did just seem like people were completely used to it.

By the way I don't mean I saw it up close in person. I mean like I'd be driving home and see it. I did talk to my female students about that stuff, tried to set them straight, but gender and Latino culture isn't a war I think I'm equipped to fight by myself.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

" Even wearing hijab doesn't help. It just shifts from the overtly sexual to the pseudo-conscious hollas.

Hey sis can we build
Peace Queen you like poetry
Hotep Goddess you re radiant blah blah blah

Then you got some ignorant mfs

Girl what you got under them curtains?
You gon' let me unwrap you....WTF






*****************************************
http://prettyperiod.me/

http://youtu.be/u8bIK3bWgog<;--HAHA

"You got knowledge of self sis?"
" Can I talk to your Wali?"
" You gotta pretty face. Can I see the rest?"

I can have all my damn kids with me and they still find something to say.

damn!

to stimulate the male mind to wonder "WHAT"S UNDER THAT HIJAB. is she a secret freak!" I must know, therefore I must hollar

Well, I'm sorry that this happens.

I don't do this.

If my friends do it and I notice I'll say something.

I don't understand what it feels like to go through this, though I have had women shout objectifying phrases at me before.

I suppose my perspective on this isn't all that important.

Violence against women is an important issue, and the extent to which this feeds into that issue is is important.

I'm still conflicted though, because in this instance men are the bad guys, but this behavior doesn't pop out of nowhere. I wonder if we are all willing to look into the numerous social influences that go into the male psyche.

I know, I know, this isn't about us...but it kind of is.



"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

>wonder if we are all willing to look into the numerous social
>influences that go into the male psyche.
>
>I know, I know, this isn't about us...but it kind of is.

*props

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

this made me laugh hard

Every time I pass by a good looking woman on the street without saying "hello beautiful", I somehow end up with a dick in my mouth. SO WEIRD.

.

yesterday he tried and failed at spinning my thoughts into being in favor of street harassment, just bc Im a heterosexual man who didnt stand in complete agreement with his fear mongering Chicken Little syndrome

>damn NY
>
>http://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A

i know it's hard, since you are with you all the time,
and you are only around other people sometimes.

but if one stops to think about it,
one can usually pull out some experience to be able to relate to others.
so we can understand things that are not within our direct experience.

i mean,
damn.

http://supertaysonbros.tumblr.com/post/101185931636/alackof-color-asharomi-kissing-whiskey

I get that some men go overboard in their attempts to holla and it can come across as creepy. However, most men are trying to holla and walk away after being turned down. For the record, I cringed at all the dudes following her and that was a bad look.

This happens in more places than Manhattan to be honest. If asking someone how they are doing is street harassment then the world is fucked up. Let's not turn everyone who says hi into a monster. Is it harassment if the woman wants to speak to the man/woman and finds them attractive?

Maybe it's cultural. Big city vs small city. North vs South.

Everybody in the video was wrong to some degree in that video. Some a lot more than others. To just shout at woman passing quickly by (compliment or not) is just rude and weird.

But then you got folks in here basically saying do not talk to women you don't know. Nope! My southern sensibilities will not let that happen.

I'm holding doors open saying "Hi, how are you?" to women left and right. Flash a nice smile if a cutie catches my eye. And if I catch the right social cue and I'm feeling confident, I may try to strike up a conversation with said cutie.

Now that may not fly in the hustle and bustle of NYC, Chicago, and the like. But down in Texas (especially small town Texas), you're a weirdo if you keep to yourself like some are saying.

>women you don't know. Nope! My southern sensibilities will not
>let that happen.

you're using your "southern sensibilities" as an excuse to talk with your dick


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Like there's no middle ground.

>Like there's no middle ground.

You see that video but I'm being extreme.
Amazing
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

<
Everybody in the video was wrong to some degree in that video. Some a lot more than others. To just shout at woman passing quickly by (compliment or not) is just rude and weird.
<

My beef (maybe not with you) are those pretty much writing off all male-female stranger contact in public. Those who are classifying what I would consider normal behavior as harassment

I'll type slowly

Women in public are not there for your gratification, conversation any thing to do with you.

If you are feeling kindly
Kindly take your kind ass to the nearest get hospital, senior citizens center, homeless shelter etc etc and satisfy you lonely need for companionship and desperate please for attention from random women you deem worthy of your attention on the street

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Thanks for the advice though

That's why you're in here attempting to seek validation for your sad lonely ass who has no recourse and tiny social circle other than to harass women on the street.

Who's really antisocial when your social circle is so damn small that is your recourse.
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

nobody is even taking it there but you
i see this issue really brings out the ugly in people
that bitch ass pussy RS or whoever goin at my folk
you callin ppl sad and lonely and weird for speaking to people
this shit is all over the damn place

god bless man

She projects like she's lingo, but with 10% of the comedy attached, its just dry rhetoric about how your experience, even if directly contradictory, doesn't matter.

Yet she will use the same excuse. if you try to argue her down logically.

Welcome to the lfresh neverending meat grinder.

you are not being polite
you are not trying to be friends
you are not being social

stop lying to yourself and others
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

I'm only taking a position on this because of my own experiences.

One for example. Saw a pretty girl waiting at the bus stop on campus. Instead of being a weirdo loner, I talked to her rather than sitting by my lonesome. My opening line: "Hi, how are you?". Pretty non-threatening in my eyes. Others in this post will vehemently dispute that.

My initial thoughts were not, Hey...let me try to fuck this chick right quick. It was more like, I want to see what this woman is about and see if there is mutual interest. Some would call that courtship

We ended up going on a date a week later and dated for about 8 months.

>

Don't be paranoid nor extreme the next time you're stopped
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Because the ugly girl isn't worth your time.
aka it's about sex. Maybe not overtly, but it is.

>RE: you are trying to fuck
>you are not being polite
>you are not trying to be friends
>you are not being social
>
>stop lying to yourself and others

... WAT? Where y'all live where every man that says hi to you is sexual deviant out to hurt you?
......

You got all of that from someone saying Hi. Saying hi, how are you does not mean someone is trying to fuck. It's called being social and polite. You've got a point as far as men following you or doing anything else.

On the street
Sure

And I mean ALL

You are you single out women specifically women that you are attracted to for...
To play patty cake?

Foh

Say hi to only men all men you see for an entire day
Video it and get back to us with the utter and complete bullshit you are trying to pull

No sexual deviany btw
This predatory crap is normal for you pathetic dudes

>On the street
>Sure
>
>And I mean ALL
>
>You are you single out women specifically women that you are
>attracted to for...
>To play patty cake?
>
>Foh
>
>Say hi to only men all men you see for an entire day
>Video it and get back to us with the utter and complete
>bullshit you are trying to pull
>
>No sexual deviany btw
>This predatory crap is normal for you pathetic dudes

Did you read my post? I'm talking specifically about saying hi and or how are you. Itms hilarious you think EVERY MALE THAT SAYS HELLO is pathetic. I'm not talking about hollaing but saying hi then KIM. I ain't preying on no one so kill that noise.

And wear a video cam?

It's sooooo common though
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>And wear a video cam?
>
>It's sooooo common though

I say hi to everyone I meet during the day. I'm black so wearing video camera results in unwanted attention from the law on my part. Your responses indicate that your environment conditions you to think that every man that says hi, how are you, and good evening is some monster that preys on women or is out to hurt you. In your environment that might be true, who knows? The rest of us were raised with common decency and act like men.

We're not trying to fuck
We are being polite because those are the values instilled in us.

It's ridiculous for you to jump to this conclusion that I'm a monster because I say hi to people. You haven't even met me. When I say hi to a woman or say good evening, I'm not looking for anything. Not looking for anything means I don't want to know your name or any form of acknowledgement in any capacity.

>I say hi to everyone I meet during the day. I'm black so
>wearing video camera results in unwanted attention from the
>law on my part.


why are you assuming?
its not all officers?
i'm sure you will be fine with just a little attention from officers
they just want to make you you are okay
they arent monsters you know


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>
>>I say hi to everyone I meet during the day.

Once again, you've never met or spoken to me so how would you know whether or not this is true? I feel sorry for the harsh experiences you've had with men saying hi, how are you, or good evening that could care less about any attention whatsoever from you. All of us aren't the monsters you think we are.

>
>I'm black so
>>wearing video camera results in unwanted attention from the
>>law on my part.
>why are you assuming?
>its not all officers?
>i'm sure you will be fine with just a little attention from
>officers
>they just want to make you you are okay
>they arent monsters you know

When I police officer says hello and how are you then I keep it moving don't take them as monsters. However, a police officer stopping me in order to ascertain my motives and gain my attention is another story just like the majority of that video. However, a police officer merely saying hi, how are you, and good evening without any intention to gain my attention is not harassment by itself.

Not that she doesn't have a right to be afraid, but she's definitely projecting on your stated scenario.

there are limited seasons and locations where ppl are allowed to hunt wild animals.

if women are to be hunted by men...to preserve the species...then can't we (you ppl) decide on terms of the engagement? can't y'all agree to limit the times and places where you'll hunt or be hunted?

we have context for this. remember:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17ocaZb-bGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMXYrQBwNK0

Let's not be crass about courtship and southern niceties
Men need open acess at all times and all places for simply conversation
Something they can get from other men
Only women they are attracted to and attempting to exchange pleasantries with
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

that might be your husband demanding that you stop and let him tell you how good you look in them jeans, girl.

>that might be your husband demanding that you stop and let
>him tell you how good you look in them jeans, girl.
>

For assuming a clearly anti social ugly woman does not get nearly enough make attention and these clearly selfless attempts at polite conversation would ruin my only chances at companionship
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

aren't going to adhere

it really can be that simple.
let's put aside the argument as to whether
a woman *should* feel a sense of paranoia
that comes from knowing that men can and sometimes do
react violently when they don't get the attention they want.

have not enough women said that the behavior makes them uncomfortable
for you to think that maybe you shouldn't do this
simply because it makes somebody else's day shittier than it has to be?

is that not a balancing process we do to manage or behavior
just from a "let's try to make the world suck slightly less" perspective?

consider what you lose out on
(an off chance to maybe smash)

and weigh that against what the woman you may be talking to has a fear of
(the weight of fearing you are a bigger, stronger, for all she knows psycho lunatic
that might beat or rape her)

and then write out a rational explanation as to
why it is too hard for you let that woman go to
wherever she was trying to go before you saw her.


i mean damn.

isn't rule number 1 of game to make ppl feel, you know... comfortable?
what part of the game is this?

and before somebody says "direction of pursuit",
why not simply wait until you are in a place
where ppl are there specifically to talk to ppl before you pursue?

i go to these places like this all the time.

bars
night clubs
church picnics
book clubs
parties

i mean damn.



i will acknowledge that some women's fears may sound irrational to you
but how about you ppl actually listen to what is said,
weigh how you are making them feel
against what you potentially have to gain

and then make a different decision about how you interact with people
based on the fact that the entire world is ALREADY a giant shithole that would arguably be better off burned to the ground, and it's shouldn't be too much to ask
for you make the slightest bit of effort to not make it even worse for somebody else
by doing shit like this.


try to think about it that way.

Let's imagine that since you were like 9 years old, strangers said things to you in public places.
Sometimes they grabbed at you.
Sometimes they touched themselves as they looked at you.

Maybe they said nice things, but most of the times they said very dirty things.
At a point it doesn't matter WHAT they said- because they ONLY said these things to you, because of some lust-filled, spontaneous urge that men can't seem or want to control ?!
And at 9 you know this. You shouldn't know this at your age, but you do. Your caretaker warns you about it.
Are 9 year old boys told to not catcall? Men only say these things to us because they feel they have the right/power to.
They were never told young it was wrong- was it encouraged?

This is how women live- Since we were young my dears..
How old are you now? Would this type of reoccurring theme (since 9yrs of age) affect your psyche in anyway?
How would you tell which stranger would not attack you if you engaged or ignored?
Do any of you see any parallels with this, to Jim Crow-like psychological terror (power, public space laws and fear..etc)?
or the slight fear you have with Stop& Frisk/ racial profiling?

It frankly doesn't matter if the stranger is good looking or not. They are a stranger, it is a public space-
publicly expressing a sexual intention or appraisal of a woman's body while they are simply going about their daily life.

Just like stop& frisk-to a point, this gets to be extremely belittling and irritating and sometimes scary.
It really threatens our peace of mind in a way that we shouldn't have to experience on a daily basis-

Men know that if you truly want to holler, the street is NOT the proper venue. Deep down inside you know the odds are never in your favor-

think this is a big deal feel the same way if it were gay men street calling at them while they walked down the street?

I've seen MAD dudes get eyeballed and winked at by gay men, and they get livid.

The misogyny is that somehow they think that when THEY do it tho that it's all good and warranted. I am not a male feminist as people have said in the past but women definitely have a point to not be objectified.

But if dudes think it should be fair game for them to be able to holla at any chick whenever no matter the circumstance then they should say it's fair game for them to be holla'd at in the same manner, by any and everyone.

Hi, how are you is fine.
Smile or you should smile is cool.
The innocuous social statements are acceptable.

How many times do we have to explain this shit? Stop giving women orders to do what YOU want them to do. You do not know what's going on in my life at that moment. I'm not ever going to be smiling at all times, nor do I appreciate being ordered to do so. For what? Cause I'm a woman and here to be all jolly and coy for your enjoyment at all time? It's my space, my mood, and my prerogative to smile or not smile.

Are you telling other men who walk down the street to smile too? Cause those "smile" comments are never just so. It follows with how you look mean and need to look happier and a list of other dumb comments to follow. I'm not on earth to be smiling for you. Mind your business and stop telling me what to do. You can be in a horrible mood, not feeling well, or just lost someone in death. I'm not trying to hear that shit from a stranger who is trying to take ownership of my mood at the moment for his pleasure. Some men are always trying to get some damn attention from every woman he sees because he believes she is solely there for him.

It doesn't even take all that for you to not want the attention.

Come at you like that?

Or that these should be the standards by which we can holla at women?

If the latter, then what if women don't agree? Do they get a say in how THEY get to be pursued?

For the record, I tell everyone I come across with a mean mug to smile. Seriously, I want to know where the individuals in this post with the most replies live where every man that says hi is out to holla, rob, and commit sexually deviant acts.

***SPOILER ALERT: EVERY MAN A WOMAN MEETS THAT SAYS HI IS NOT A MONSTER***

But they all say it with sexual intent and connotation, and ANY guy could potentially be that threat, no matter how well meaning you are.

I am a guy that holds doors for all people, and keep my mouth to myself but will give a head nod to all people that I make eye contact with just as a means of acknowledging your existence. But telling people to smile is still somewhat problematic unless you are willing or have invested into unpacking the things that are causing them to frown. "Smiling" makes you feel better and doesn't solve their problem or mood.

If a gay dude did that I wouldn't do anything besides continue walking by.

However this isn't the same because I haven't had this happen to me every year since puberty.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

and had Terry Crews looking mofos walking up to them like "hay gorgeous" and following them for 4 avenues and into Jimmy Jazz, only for you to get mad and they respond like "no offense, smile Pa, I was only giving you a compliment"....they'd contextualize this much differently.

Most dudes I know respond violently to that, and get defensive and threaten to fight and threaten all kinda shit. But if it's all harmless and polite then why THAT reaction?

There will be exceptions, but in this dream "wifey" scenario if she was really feeling you THAT much she'd stop and give you a shot to holla.

Dudes need to recontextualize the exchange, and humanize women in the equation instead of objectifying them. They wouldn't and don't appreciate the same action when they are under the scope.

Add a lifetime of experiencing actual physical assault, or at the very least hearing about it from many of your close peers, and (I imagine) you're getting close to the lived experience of women.

Men going "I once got cat-called by a woman on the subway" sound like those white people complaining about getting called "honky" whenever someone tries to talk about racism.

No, I just pointed out that it happened and why my experiences lack the social context to allow me to fully understand what women go through.




"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

catcalled by women. I'm saying if straight men went out on their daily business and got catcalled by men then they would get it. It's like they can't humanize the issue until they are prey.

To form an analogous situation with gay men hitting on men loses the broadness of women targeted by said street harassment. Most men feel it is an affront to their perceived masculinity and/or sexuality to be catcalled at by gay men, at least the ones who act out. While gay women are subject to this with everyday street harassment they have a minority view as we are discussing this with respect to the nuisance of these hecklers.

A relation must maintain the two parties sexual attractions. These men are attracted to women and suppose that the hollas are directed at straight women. Being attractive to a woman is not something wholly tangible as what it takes for a man to lust for a woman. Also account for the aggressor role being primarily male centered and you wind up with our current debate/misunderstanding.

At our basest nature we are all animals and women underestimate just how much man has perpetually fed male sexual desires/ thoughts. The objectification of women has not lost inertia merely changed form and become larger in magnitude with larger populations in smaller spaces.

>To form an analogous situation with gay men hitting on men
>loses the broadness of women targeted by said street
>harassment. Most men feel it is an affront to their perceived
>masculinity and/or sexuality to be catcalled at by gay men, at
>least the ones who act out. While gay women are subject to
>this with everyday street harassment they have a minority view
>as we are discussing this with respect to the nuisance of
>these hecklers.

It is not going to be a direct one to one correspondence because society as a backdrop won't allow for a direct role swap (such as with "reverse racism") but catcalling doesn't care about the humanization of the victim. An "affront to their perceived masculinity/ sexuality" is irrelevant! The only thing perceived is that you "could be hubby/wifey" and that alone gives me the greens light. I mean are allowed to get upset at these encroaching personal affronts then why should women be disqualified merely because they may be into guys?

>A relation must maintain the two parties sexual attractions.
>These men are attracted to women and suppose that the hollas
>are directed at straight women. Being attractive to a woman is
>not something wholly tangible as what it takes for a man to
>lust for a woman. Also account for the aggressor role being
>primarily male centered and you wind up with our current
>debate/misunderstanding.

Women are against the "aggressor role" if it means a free for all 24/7 onslaught. Most women in here are even saying there is a time and place to do that. But if we establish (which we have) that male are thr aggressors and females are merely the prey or prize to be won, the we are oppressing them and they don't like it. If you are an impoverished person within the framework of capitalism you may have a similar grievance too.

>At our basest nature we are all animals and women
>underestimate just how much man has perpetually fed male
>sexual desires/ thoughts. The objectification of women has not
>lost inertia merely changed form and become larger in
>magnitude with larger populations in smaller spaces.

We should try to be something more than our basal natures. If women, competent mature adult women, can say on their own merit that they don't like this then as men we should be able to amend and accommodate that request. If a woman walking down the street is THAT into you she has a brain too. She may even stop and give you a chance to holla if you are that other worldly. But clearly MOST men are not. Out of the 100 calls she hot she didn't show interest in any of them. It is completely dehumanizing and objectifying to think women have to be pursued in this manner anymore. Since moving to NY I've actually gotten more hollas from women because I wasn't so thirsty to show interest and I wasn't a guy that howled at every walking woman I passed. I worked with a guy for 5 weeks that would literally hang out the woman to hiss and kiss and holla at EVERY woman we passed. It is so juvenile. We can do better.

1. The Creep Holler - Dude says something sexual, dude touches a girl, dude follows a girl, etc. We all agree that's wrong. It's straight harassment and physically threatening. Them Dudes suck.

2. The Have a Nice Day Holler - The Old man classic. Pretty girl walks by he says "Hello", "Have a Nice Day", "Hi Beautiful", etc. This holler is characterized by dude really having no expectation of anything. He is not trying to get the digits, he just wants to acknowledge the presence of a woman he finds attractive.

I know this is probably unwanted and annoying but does it rise anything beyond that? Is it on the same level or higher of annoyance as the homeless people constantly asking me for change? If so why?

3. The really trying to holler holler - This is a dude really trying to get those digits (different then the first two hollers because them dudes should have known nothing was going to go down). They try to spit game. If the woman demures, and the dude persists then this turns into the creep holler.

My question about this type of holler is if the dude really tries to holler holler, and a woman shuts him down (ignores him, says "no thanks" or "I am good") and dude falls back, is that harassment? Especially considering some times the really trying to holler holler works? I mean dudes DO pull women on the street.

So what are we suppose to do about a type of holler that some women welcome and some don't?


Or to put a less clinical way, if a dude saw the girl of his dreams (and a lot of dudes can just look at a girl and know they would like them beyond their physical attractiveness) and it just so happens he saw her on the street, he is not suppose to say anything to her (even when it is welcomed by some women)?

---
I am not an advocater of street holler because it's not something I have ever done (funny thing is I think probably all the dudes here probably don't so I don't know why they are so defensive about it) but I am not sure to what extent anyone has a right to not to be talked to by anyone while on the street. At what level is street interaction just a part of living in the city versus harassment to be curbed?





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/male-allies/how-to-talk-to-women/

For men who do care and do not want to offend or threaten women, the following tips can guide their interactions (and if this sounds too dumbed down, I agree but it seems to be necessary given some men’s attitudes about commenting on and harassing women in public):

1. Treat women like human beings, with respect and dignity.

2. If you want to say hello to a woman, just smile and nod or say hello. Do not whistle, honk, or make kissy noises at her. Do not say, “Hey baby,” or “Hi cutie.” Those are disrespectful and inappropriate actions and terms to use with a complete stranger.

3. The way a woman is dressed does not tell you if she wants to be commented on. If she looks dressed up, do not assume it is to gain the admiration of all men she sees and that you should say something to her. She may enjoy dressing up, she may be dressed up for an event, or she may be dressed up to gain the admiration of a specific person or persons. Unless she has a sign on that says, “Please comment on my looks,” do not do it.

4. Stranger rape and harassment are real threats for women. If you find yourself alone with a woman in a deserted parking garage, road, or park, especially at night., keep a respectful distance and do not approach her.

Unless the comments or actions of men who want to flirt or meet a woman in public to date or “hook up” with are welcome by the woman, they constitute harassment.

Here are several things people can keep in mind to avoid being a harasser:

1. Do not assume all women are single, heterosexual or bisexual, or interested in male attention or in forming a relationship.

2. Differences or similarities in race, class, and age between you and the woman and the woman’s sexual orientation can cause her to interpret attention a certain way.

3. Women deserve the same right to privacy in public that most men enjoy, and many women will view a man who approaches her for any reason other than a gender-neutral one, such as asking for directions, the time, or to offer assistance, as violating their privacy, and they may be rude or hostile.

4. Most of the time, women do not want to be approached for a date by a man in public places like the street or at a bus stop. Women are usually in public for a reason: to commute to school or work, to run errands, or to get exercise, not to meet men. There are times when a woman may be open to meeting someone in public, but they are rare, so keep in mind that chances are great that if you approach a woman, she will not want to meet you to form a relationship.

5. If you do approach a woman, try not to do so if it is dark out, if it is a deserted area, if there are no other people around, or if you are with your friends while she is alone. All of these factors can make women feel threatened by any man approaching them.

6. Never follow a woman without a good reason, like she dropped her wallet and you are trying to return it. Aside from assault, men following women is the behavior women feel the most threatened by when they are alone in public.

7. Only approach a woman when she does not appear to be in a hurry or preoccupied. Initiate the interaction by smiling at her and/or saying hello. If, and only if, she smiles and/or says hello back and then does not hurry away, look away, or otherwise try to ignore you, then you can say something else to her that is respectful and polite, including flirtatious remarks.

8. If you say hello and/or smile and the woman hurries away, ignores you or responds rudely, leave her alone. She may not have the time or desire to talk, so be respectful of her schedule and feelings. She may have had a bad harassment or assault experience and now is wary of all men who approach her. You may be the third or fourth person to approach her that day and even if done politely, it can become wearisome and annoying.

9. If a woman initiates a conversation with you, be respectful in your responses. If at any point during a conversation a woman looks uncomfortable, gives you one word answers, looks away, or tries to leave, follow her cues and stop talking. If she does not resume the conversation, leave her alone.

http://www.bernicesandler.com/id18.htm

Some men (and women) have difficulty understanding which behaviors are considered as sexual harassment. The following questions may be especially helpful in assessing one's own behavior or someone else's:

Would I mind if someone treated my wife, partner, girlfriend, mother, sister or daughter this way?

Would I mind if this person told my wife, partner, girlfriend, mother, sister or daughter what I was saying and doing?

Would I do this if my wife, partner, girlfriend, mother, sister or daughter was in the room?

Would I be comfortable saying the same thing or acting the same way to my mother, sister or daughter?

Would I do this if the parent, spouse or boyfriend of the other person was present?

When a person objects to my behavior do I apologize and stop, or do I get angry instead?

Would I act this way if I didn't have power over this person, such as being a supervisor or executive? Do I have other kinds of power over this person such as being bigger or with more status?

Is my behavior reciprocated? Are there specific indications of pleasure -- not "She didn't object" but specific behaviors indicating she is pleased by my behavior?

Would I mind if a reporter wanted to write about what I was doing?


Keep in mind that if you have to ask, such behavior is likely to be high risk and it is probably better to not do it.

to the questions I raised.

How does either post answer the questions:

1.I know the "Good Morning Beautiful" remark is probably unwanted and annoying but does it rise anything beyond that? Is it on the same level or higher of annoyance as the homeless people constantly asking me for change? If so why?

or

2. So what are we suppose to do about the fact that some women welcome the legitimate holler from certain dudes if there is mutual attraction?




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

>1.I know the "Good Morning Beautiful" remark is probably
>unwanted and annoying but does it rise anything beyond that?
>Is it on the same level or higher of annoyance as the homeless
>people constantly asking me for change? If so why?

yes. b/c the person receiving your 'GMB' doesn't know you, Buddy G. she doesn't know if your 'GMB' will turn bad if she doesn't respond properly. and she doesn't know the proper response b/c she doesn't know you. and now your 'GMB' has put pressure on her to respond correctly. when she was just out and about conducting her biz and living her life. now she's gotta deal w/you and your 'GMB' when you are a complete stranger to her. even a nice guy respectful polite stranger - those guys can turn bad. and she doesn't know.

>2. So what are we suppose to do about the fact that some
>women welcome the legitimate holler from certain dudes if
>there is mutual attraction?

holla at those bitches, G.

smile and nod first. easy, breezy. tip your hat first. easy, breezy. if she gives a positive sign in response, now try 'Hello' or 'GMB'. if she responds positively, keep going. if she doesn't respond or doesn't respond positively LET IT GO. leave her alone. don't assume she didn't see or hear. don't assume she's being coy. let it go. w/o commenting to her. w/o repeating yourself. just leave her alone.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

you should (oh noez...i'm telling you what to do though i don't know you!!) change the way you holla b/c of the reality that hollas amount to harassment for too many women. change the way you holla at all women. start out w/the silent action - smile/nod. then move in if she's receptive. if she's not receptive, leave her alone. if you don't get a chance to smile at her - leave her alone.

common sense stuff, as you put it earlier.

>
>Or to put a less clinical way, if a dude saw the girl of his
>dreams (and a lot of dudes can just look at a girl and know
>they would like them beyond their physical attractiveness) and
>it just so happens he saw her on the street, he is not suppose
>to say anything to her (even when it is welcomed by some
>women)?
>


like, I'm on board with not being a creepy fucker to women and just lettin' em live, but I wonder how this scenario fits into all of this.

I can tell he is not interested. I can tell there is nothing I can say that will sway him. I do not know or care if he is gay - I know he is not into me. And so I do not speak to him.

If a man sees the person of his dreams on the street and he doesn't know if they're interested - try a smile and nod. I tried that. It went nowhere inviting. I left him alone. If I couldnt have arranged face time - bc he already passed or whatever - then that is a missed opportunity and life goes on. But going after and grabbing or otherwise demanding a person's attention bc they happen to look really appealing (even person of dreams) is not cool. It's very likely to be harassing.

>I can tell he is not interested. I can tell there is nothing
>I can say that will sway him. I do not know or care if he is
>gay - I know he is not into me. And so I do not speak to him.
>
>
>If a man sees the person of his dreams on the street and he
>doesn't know if they're interested - try a smile and nod.


OK but what about saying "Hello?" Some folks here have described that as unwelcomed street harrasment. That sounds extreme to me. Even doing the test "what if it were my sister" test.


I
>tried that. It went nowhere inviting. I left him alone. If I
>couldnt have arranged face time - bc he already passed or
>whatever - then that is a missed opportunity and life goes on.
>But going after and grabbing or otherwise demanding a person's
>attention bc they happen to look really appealing (even person
>of dreams) is not cool. It's very likely to be harassing.

We all agree these things you described are not cool.

I am trying to figure out where the reasonable line is and I am considering that some of the women's position in here, namely that saying hello constitute street harassment, isn't a reasonable line.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

the guy i see everyday who's not into me, i used to smile and nod at him. he never returned the smile or nod in an inviting manner. sometimes he looked away, even. it was clear that he wasn't interested. i let it go.

it sucks b/c i see him everyday. but oh well. life has gone on.

But I am going to just have and disagree with you that saying "hello" crosses the line into being harrassment.

I know you don't agree with the notion that saying hello is "dehumanizing" "offensive" and "sexually charged".

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

unfortunately, YES...fucking 'hello' can be harassing. b/c that 'hello' doesn't happen in a vacuum, homie. b/c it's not that ONE GUY saying 'hello'. it's the build-up of 'hello' and 'good morning' and 'smile, beautiful' and 'hey pretty lady' and 'hey you' and 'hey blue jeans' and 'what's up' and 'can i talk to you?'....

it's not JUST 'hello'. to the guy saying it it's just 'hello' but not to the person on the receiving end. it's the build up of these unwarranted greetings that too often come an expectation of SOME response that becomes harassment. so the individual 'hello' doesn't come in isolation. and sorry but women and others who receive this behavior aren't going to act brand new just to make you feel better about your 'hello' or some mythical old man's 'hello'. your 'hello' doesn't get to break through the cloud of the other 'hellos' and be as special as YOU are. it's just another 'hello' from a stranger. another annoyance. another harassment. it's not special.

>>Or to put a less clinical way, if a dude saw the girl of his
>>dreams (and a lot of dudes can just look at a girl and know
>>they would like them beyond their physical attractiveness)
>and
>>it just so happens he saw her on the street, he is not
>suppose
>>to say anything to her (even when it is welcomed by some
>>women)?
>>

Don't say nothing. A woman will let you know if she's interested. You
approaching her in the streets will have you coming across like one
of the dudes in this video.

I refuse to believe that she was only harrassed by men of color. I'm sure that if we had the raw footage, there would be at least one white guy. Street harrassment is a very real issue, but I can't help but wonder if there is some secret racial agenda, or if they specifically used "scary" minorities to make it more impactful.

dont believe the hype, it's a sequel (c)

http://www.gradientlair.com/post/59330041829/black-men-street-harassment-phrases-behaviors

http://www.gradientlair.com/tagged/youoksis

https://twitter.com/feministajones

considering Black feminists/womanists are largely involved in the effort. <-- that is the point of those links. the links point to a site and a Twitter page maintained by self-described black womanists who i doubt would participate in a secret racial agenda to harm black men. yet those women are involved in the effort to curb street harassment.

why were the men in that video largely black and Latino? probably b/c that's who was on the street during the hours when this was made. probably b/c that's who was on the street in the areas where this video was made.

this effort is going on outside the USA too. in places where there are many fewer black and Latino men on the street. it's not about black and Latino men.

i read something last night that proposed that the behavior may be class-related in that ppl of certain classes are more likely to be on the street or exposed to each other in public spaces where this kind of harassment occurs. if this tends to happen on sidewalks and public transit - ppl of certain classes tend to be walking on sidewalks and riding PT. ppl of certain classes also tend to be of certain races, depending on where in the world one is. so maybe that's why we saw the men we saw in that video too.

but i am convinced there is no secret racial agenda at work here.

I'm just shocked that there were NO white harassers in 10 hours of raw footage.

watch again

There are a couple of blurred faces that I assumed to be Puerto Ricans, that could possibly be white.

for whatever thats worth ha

about calling black men out for this than alot of white women do, which is slightly counterintuitive. Probably because black women who get street harassed are mad about it but not afraid of being called racist, like alot of nonblack women would be.

I'm talking about THIS. SPECIFIC. VIDEO.

I'm not up in this post caping for street hollas and the niggas who love them. I understand it's a very real issue.

Is Street Harassment a Cultural Thing?

Like all forms of gender-based violence, street harassers fall evenly across lines of race and class. It is a longstanding myth that street harassment is a “cultural” thing, perpetrated mostly by men of color. We believe that street harassment is a “cultural” thing in the sense that it emerges from a culture of sexism — and unfortunately — that is everyone’s culture.



It’s important to keep in mind that is this video only captures verbal harassment, and Rob and Shoshana can attest to the harassment overall falling evenly along race and class lines. While filming, Shoshana noted, “I’m harassed when I smile and I’m harassed when I don’t. I’m harassed by white men, black men, latino men. Not a day goes by when I don’t experience this.”

and less educated men doing this. Probably all the big cities with large black populations are like that.


The reason? Like some of us have been sating, class, plus mores about holleration that have developed in black culture un the last 30 years. Middle class white people generally fund that kind of thing declasse and boorish and don't engage in it as much.

I know it's gotten worse because my mother doesn't know anything about street harrassment. In fact, shes always half jokingly suggesting lines for me to drop on women in the street, and I'm always informing her that I'm "not allowed" to do that kind of thing, in light of this issue. It wasn't like this in her day and that generation doesn't really get what all the fuss is about

or Latino men?

why does it happen in mighty white places like Australia and Scandinavia?

and if this is only a problem for the youth, then where does the classic whistling construction worker meme come from?

where did Pepe Le Pew come from? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEdBndu0YUM <--j/k LOL

i disagree w/your mother that this is a new issue. i think it's older than us. plus my mother and her sisters have complained about having been harassed on the streets in St. Louis when they were teens.

cause i think there are heaps of bullshit on so many sides of this issue

http://pashsydney.tumblr.com/

^ i found this link to a group that's working on the issue in Sydney. i haven't found that they literally have a 10 hrs video like Hollaback. the point is - this issue has been identified in Sydney and ppl are working to address it.

who were white and they were whistling and catcalling.

As a matter of fact they used to have a white person word for this back in the day. I believe it was called a "masher"

I do feel some kinda way that this video took place only up in harlem and what it looks to be the bronx and not wallstreet or downtown BK where the construction worker incident happened.

but i think the volume in sydney or some of the other places listed might be significantly lower...i'll look into what SoWhat linked up later bc i know it's an uninformed assumption

>I refuse to believe that she was only harrassed by men of
>color. I'm sure that if we had the raw footage, there would be
>at least one white guy. Street harrassment is a very real
>issue, but I can't help but wonder if there is some secret
>racial agenda, or if they specifically used "scary" minorities
>to make it more impactful.

But they just made a comment and kept it moving.

a bit.

and Latin guys.

The real drivers of the anti street harrassment movement are all hardcore leftists, and they feel really uneasy about exposing the bad behavior of so many poor, less educated black and Latino men. That's why they tie themselves in knots trying to explain that part of the issue away.

have you ever been to a white college campus?
or hung around white ppl?

there was another video where a woman was walking through a smarty-art
high class museum.

same shit.

this is not a white/ black or even a rich/ poor issue.
wasn't she walking through a black neighborhood?

i dunno.


>and Latin guys.
>
>The real drivers of the anti street harrassment movement are
>all hardcore leftists, and they feel really uneasy about
>exposing the bad behavior of so many poor, less educated black
>and Latino men. That's why they tie themselves in knots
>trying to explain that part of the issue away.

they could have went to any of the 100's of neighborhoods in the city, but they went to 125th.

at her. Also some of these sound staged to me.

>Also some of these sound staged to me.

The fact that she asked for donations is suspect as well.

everything I see on some youtube link.

It happens. It happens ALL the time.

When you're walking with a woman, you won't see this go one cuz those idiots aren't trying to disrespect you. But when a woman is alone, I can guarantee you that this happens.

How did this PSA come about?

In August 2014, Rob Bliss of Rob Bliss Creative reached out to Hollaback! to partner on a PSA highlighting the impact of street harassment. He was inspired by his girlfriend — who gets street harassed all the time — and Shoshana B. Roberts volunteered to be the subject of his PSA. For 10 hours, Rob walked in front of Shoshana with a camera in his backpack, while Shoshana walked silently with two mics in her hands.



As part of Rob’s agreement with Hollaback!, Rob had creative control over the PSA and owns it with unlimited usage rights for Hollaback!. Hollaback! is grateful for Rob and Shoshana’s dedication to this issue, and for their volunteer service.

and i cannot fathom how there are ppl who do not get how this is complete and utter fckng harassment
it is mind boggling

and now the tone is it was staged...
*facepalm*


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

cause I've definitely done some variation of this...typically while drunk. i'm not typically one to yell something disrepectful but saying hi, how you doing, that type of shit i've definitely done while out on the town. on the regular day to day i keep it to eye contact and a smile though.

still...when you see them all piled up like this it makes you feel fucked up for having been a part of it even if it's once in a blue moon.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

is all the street/beach hustlers i run into while on vacation somewhere. that shit gets real annoying and all they're trying to do is make some money...not try to fuck me. can't imagine the level of anxiety it must cause on a daily basis.

by gameless fools while I was just trying to go about my business.

>
>by gameless fools while I was just trying to go about my
>business.

I don't think women want game thrown at them either.

trying to sell me cookies.

I'm tired of firemen, churches, basketball teams, etc.. approaching my car at major intersections with their buckets trying to collect money.

Tired of kids approaching my car at red lights to wash my windows, and starting to do it without having my permission.

Tired of starving artists trying to sell me their CD.

Being approached for anything can be considered harassment.

So hey, fight for whatever you believe in.

I will, however, agree with the notion that using the extreme example of NYC makes one roll their eyes just slightly.

and demanding to be treated w/dignity and respect.

i feel you, bro.

fuck these hoes if they keep standing up for themselves???

don't they know the species depends on y'all being able to holla at them when and where you want?

do they wanna bone standing up or nah?

so right, dude. so right.

through it.

more conversation about the issue is a good. spread that awareness.

YOU get street harassed too but you don't complain about it. but you understand that these women are complaining about street harassment that they won't stand for. and you have no problem w/that and in fact you stand w/them b/c you too are fed up w/street harassment you've experienced.

you're actually on the side of ppl who are harassed b/c you've been victimized. you get this issue totally.

i see it now.

you right. my bad for my prior snark. you're on the good side here.

so women are not ever raped by ppl who approach them on the street. b/c your experience is just like women's experience.

and women who fear that they may be raped or otherwise attacked by a stranger who approaches them in public are just exaggerating. b/c this is NOT a thing. it hasn't happened to you so it doesn't happen to anyone.

totally.

passionate about.

Carry on.

i've heard from women who've said this issue is about rape b/c they have either experienced or have heard about situations where a street holla turned to harassment turned to physical violence up to and including rape or worse. based on that i've heard from women who've said they fear that any street holla can end up in physical violence. they've said street hollas are unpredictable - they don't know where it's going or when the holla-er's intention will convert from holla to hitting to who-knows-what-else.

and so that's why i say this IS about rape. even if most street hollas never result in rape - the very real fear of rape exists w/in the context of the street action we're discussing here.

I'm not going to discuss it in response to MY personal statement, because there is no connection.

in limited scope

i have an irrational fear of cops and there are (grave) enough examples of why it seems (or is) justified

nobody is saying cops should completely abandon their jobs...should they go about it differently? yep? should certain things about how they target people change..sure

but i think what's being offered as a solution to street hollers is throwing the baby out with the bath water...

just like i don't believe cops shouldn't pull me over ever on the street...

the only difference i genuinely feel is at play is the volume...and i think that's a decent enough distinction but not enough

i get it...but i disagree with the overall solution

u gave an example of a nod or smile...which can equally be viewed as harrassment...if every street hollerer round the world did that today...not only would the complaint still exist...the fear of rape/assualt would still be prevalent...

the guy who doesn't get a wink back is still dragging chicks into alleys...is still busting chicks heads with bottles in the clubs when she won't let him buy her drink

street hollers isn't the issue at all imho...it's lack of class...a undeservedly negative view of objectification...and the direction of pursuit being one-way

>i get it...but i disagree with the overall solution

then what is your solution, Ric?

>u gave an example of a nod or smile...which can equally be
>viewed as harrassment

Ric i got that suggestion from women who are advocating for an end to street harassment. THEY said a smile and nod is fine.

THEY said a smile and nod is not harassment.
THEY have not said that men should not ever talk to women on the street.

i can provide a link to what they said though i already did in replies 435 & 436.

i get it

if i had the solution...i'd be a fucking genius...

i'm in here trying to figure it out...

i realize it's largely not "necessary" but i still think a lot of the reasoning surrounding it is faulty

imho...until we can find a way to make pursuit a 2-way thing...women are going to be inconvenienced in droves by most of men advances

male on female violence isn't going to change...

nothing is going to stop the borderline irrational fears until that occurs either...

of course women are ok with smile and nod now...bc they don't have the anecdotal evidence to be threatened by that...yet

i think that's not a bad reform idea and largely would support it...but i don't think it's going to change much

edit: i can break down why i think that suggestion also doesn't work but i don't think you'd be interested in that

>

By no means was my statement intended to defend street harassers OR suggest that I know what it is to be a WOMAN that feels victimized by the comments of people she passes on the street.

My point is that I, too, (even as man) don't like being approached. So if that's your cause to fight for, I'm not going to stand in your way.

Some of y'all are so knee-jerk over responses that aren't identical to your own that shit is taken somewhere it doesn't need to go just to prove a point that a person isn't arguing.

I'm not going to discuss rape in response to MY statement, because it had nothing to do with that.

Take it how you want.

in a fairly dismissive tone but ultimately said you don't stand in the way of the effort.

word up.

My point is that you're looking at these interaction as if they're happening in a vacuum, even though plenty of folks (including women who experience this on a daily basis) have made clear that it's part of a continuum of unwanted interactions, with the very real possibility of physical sexual violence looming over the supposedly "innocent" (in the eyes of men performing them) verbal engagements.

As a man, I can safely say that the things you describe have never made me feel unsafe. Annoyed maybe, but *never* unsafe.

Yes, derailing your attempt to put me on a side that I'm clearly not on.

raising money for their ball team when damn sure they don't look like they are in anybody's school.

>As a man, I can safely say that the things you describe have
>never made me feel unsafe. Annoyed maybe, but *never* unsafe.


The thing is conflating the old dude sitting down saying "hello" with the dude saying explicit things and following and touching women. If you put them on the same continuum then you are really saying all interaction with male strangers may lead to sexual assault or violence. And then why stop there with strangers? Most rape victims know their attackers so then you might as well say all female interactions with any men have the potential to lead to rape and sexual assault. Only way to solve it is no interaction with men.

That's the slippery slope you go down when you lump guys saying hello in with the dudes following, touching or saying explicit things.


I have a very narrow interest in this convo. Defending the dude who says hello or the guy you tries to holler politely and falls back when the lady shows no interest.

All the other shit in that video is terrible.


>My point is that you're looking at these interaction as if
>they're happening in a vacuum, even though plenty of folks
>(including women who experience this on a daily basis) have
>made clear that it's part of a continuum of unwanted
>interactions, with the very real possibility of physical
>sexual violence looming over the supposedly "innocent" (in the
>eyes of men performing them) verbal engagements.
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

after dealing with all the other shit??!?
COME ON
i feel like we are speaking to brick walls

>I have a very narrow interest in this convo. Defending the
>dude who says hello or the guy you tries to holler politely
>and falls back when the lady shows no interest.
>
>All the other shit in that video is terrible.

you never know if the person who says HELLO to you is going to call you a silly bitch, a stuck up cunt, a whatever after you ignore them
we have no fucking clue what is coming next
so the simple hello guy has everything ruined by the assholes
just dont fucking talk to us, period
thats the breaking pt we get to
what is so hard to get abt that????

I say that not because I don't understand your position or because I am a brick wall or incapable of empathasizing, but simply because I disagree with.


Is it possible that a reasonable man or woman can disagree with you that the simple act of saying hello isn't "offensive" in itself? Do you think all women would agree with you? Do you think all men who disagree with you are some sort of less evolved unempathetic unenlightened folk?


>after dealing with all the other shit??!?
>COME ON
>i feel like we are speaking to brick walls
>
>>I have a very narrow interest in this convo. Defending the
>>dude who says hello or the guy you tries to holler politely
>>and falls back when the lady shows no interest.
>>
>>All the other shit in that video is terrible.
>
>you never know if the person who says HELLO to you is going to
>call you a silly bitch, a stuck up cunt, a whatever after you
>ignore them
>we have no fucking clue what is coming next
>so the simple hello guy has everything ruined by the assholes
>just dont fucking talk to us, period
>thats the breaking pt we get to
>what is so hard to get abt that????
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

smile.
nod.
don't talk.



smile.
nod.
don't talk.


smile.
nod.
don't talk.


smile.
nod.
don't talk.

Or any other person walking behind her?

Even his "hello" is sexually charged and dehumanizing. It wasn't just "hello", he just threw a smaller stone at her.

offensive and sexually charged. Not just men but most women. It makes you appear extreme and a bit bonkers.


>Or any other person walking behind her?
>
>Even his "hello" is sexually charged and dehumanizing. It
>wasn't just "hello", he just threw a smaller stone at her.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

(No sexual connotation tho right?)

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

an innate fear of possibly being assaulted or what? Like, wat makes the holla so bad except for that possibility? I'm really trying to understand here..

would the holla be more welcomed if that wasnt a factor?

Cus really, if the roles were reversed, I honestly cant see how this would be a prollem for a man

comes up to you and politely asks to dance, are you cool with it?

If he just walks up and starts dancing on you or grabs your hand are you offended?

Same situation on the street, but he's like "whats up boo" as you walk by, you cool with that? Tells you to "smile sunshine", do you do it?

It seems like this is the only time that I have been able to convince other men that if they say it aint cool "because they are not interested" no matter how they try to nice it up, it us the same thing for women. They aren't interested, and it doesn't matter if they are having a bad day, or running late to work, or buried a family member, or have a boyfriend/husband. Them not being interested is enough.

>comes up to you and politely asks to dance, are you cool with
>it?
>
>If he just walks up and starts dancing on you or grabs your
>hand are you offended?
>
>Same situation on the street, but he's like "whats up boo" as
>you walk by, you cool with that? Tells you to "smile
>sunshine", do you do it?
>
>It seems like this is the only time that I have been able to
>convince other men that if they say it aint cool "because they
>are not interested" no matter how they try to nice it up, it
>us the same thing for women. They aren't interested, and it
>doesn't matter if they are having a bad day, or running late
>to work, or buried a family member, or have a
>boyfriend/husband. Them not being interested is enough.
>
>

Are you cool with guys catcalling you?

Simple as that.

>Are you cool with guys catcalling you?
>
>Simple as that.
>
>

>>Are you cool with guys catcalling you?
>>
>>Simple as that.

that doesnt stop men from catcalling them
so answer his question

but yall still gon try cause you simply like what you see

WITH WHAT "YOU" LIKE?

That is the point. Men by and large are allowed to assume that women are fair game and that they are into it. Women by and large are saying they aren't into it.

But then men say "well you like guys tho so I have a right to take a shot at you. But they aren't into you and dob't want that attention.

So if you as a man aren't into guys, but guys were to approach you at the same same level and intensity that men catcall women, what would that have to do with what you "want", and if you incessantly had to deal with unwanted attention on a daily basis, would you get to a point of being upset about it? Most humans would, and women are humans too, in a very oppressive relationship with their pursuers. Simple as that.

They always want to turn to.

A much better analogy would be if an army of Preciouses were catcalling you.

But overall, what's interesting us that in order to make an analogy, they have to make the catcaller inherently unattractive (a man, an unattractive woman, etc.) That implies that unattractiveness is the real issue here.

she cant drag you in an alley
her following you on a city block for FIVE minutes isnt SCARING you the way that man following that woman was
she is not stronger than you
she is not calling you out of your name
is there even a name for her to call you that has the same sting as bitch?
COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
use your brains



>They always want to turn to.
>
>A much better analogy would be if an army of Preciouses were
>catcalling you.
>
>But overall, what's interesting us that in order to make an
>analogy, they have to make the catcaller inherently
>unattractive (a man, an unattractive woman, etc.) That
>implies that unattractiveness is the real issue here.

and why you motherfuckers can't just fucking have empathy for women who are telling about their experience or even women who have SHOWN it to you in video form.

the point of the analogies is for knuckleheads who just stubbornly REFUSE to empathize as is.

you are incorrect - this is not about attractiveness. this is about harassment.

>They always want to turn to.
>
>A much better analogy would be if an army of Preciouses were
>catcalling you.

This isn't about attractiveness. "Unattractive" women actually get it even worse because they are not as highly esteemed. Men objectify them even moreso. But again an "army of Preciouses" isn't as empowered as 1 man. And you'd be more offended by 1 gay men catcalling you than an army of Preciouses.

>But overall, what's interesting us that in order to make an
>analogy, they have to make the catcaller inherently
>unattractive (a man, an unattractive woman, etc.) That
>implies that unattractiveness is the real issue here.

Nobody said anything about an unattractive man. The gay man in my analogy is unattractive to you because you aren't attracted to men. Women, believe it or not, can also not be attracted to men even if they are "attractive". Straight women. The point is to think JUST because a woman is straight that she'd want you automatically is the dehumanizing factor.

It's not just you in the street feeling so inspired to holla at the "non-Preciouses". You are not doing them any favors and they are not your fantasy. You wont necessarily MAKE them interested by aggressively pursuing them. It's why I use the gay men analogy, because it at least starts from the premise of getting attention that you don't want from a group that could dehumanize you to a level of being merely objectified. (Again, no diss to gay men, but yall know nothing scares a straight dude more than his own homophobia).

why it gotta be a gay guy tho?

Is the woman in the OP (or women in general for that matter) being approached by "gay girls"?

the difference in the fear is that we can probably have a chance to whoop her ass if need be.

be hubby.

It has to be a man who is showing sexual or relationship aggression ("catcalling") you. I assert that if and when straight guys are catcalled by gay men by and large they don't like it. But if you feel that you should be able to escape their unwanted pursuit then women should be able to escape your/our unwanted pursuit.

It's not just you, but every guy on the block that catcalls them. And it's not even just them because you'd catcall any and every woman you'd want to land.

If men had to deal with that with the same level and intensity (as with if gay men pursued you the same way) then I'm sure you'd feel some kinda way about it.

And this is not to bash gay men in any way, it more to bash straight guys because a lot of times our straight male privilege doesn't allow for us to see things for the deeper further oppressed side. But when straight male privilege is checked and made to feel threatened then "we" become a situational victim. That's why it has to be a gay dude, because in catcalling it doesn't matter what you like.

.

That is fair. In positions where it's happened to me I have respectfully taken it that way too.

But it is not reality to be catcalled in that manner as a man at the same level women experience. At some point, as a human, it would go from an impromptu inconvenience tho flattering, to a recurring annoying harassment. I don't think as men we fully grasp the volume by which this happens to most women. It is literally inescapable on their scale.

What happens to us once in a blue moon happens to them at least once every time they go to the bodega to get a Blue Moon, and everywhere in between.

>an innate fear of possibly being assaulted or what? Like, wat
>makes the holla so bad except for that possibility?

based on what i've heard and read, yes. that's the meat of the issue. but it's not just this.

it's also about a certain level of disrespect couched in the idea that men are entitled to a woman's time simply b/c the men are interested in the women either for sex or love. i see it where folks ask 'What does a guy do if he sees the woman of his dreams???'

>would the holla be more welcomed if that wasnt a factor?

maybe. however that factor can't be ignored or dismissed.

>Cus really, if the roles were reversed, I honestly cant see
>how this would be a prollem for a man

it's a problem for us gay men. street harassment ain't just about the holla it's also about threats and snide comments and stuff. so it's about those comments i've heard when i've walked the street w/my sig other. ppl shaking their heads, sucking their teeth, saying 'That's a damn shame' or 'Fucking faggots'. it's about ppl throwing bottles at me and the homies from passing cars b/c they see we're gay. that's all harassment.

Where women historically held the power and used that power to subjugate men.

It would be problematic then. I promise.

>Cus really, if the roles were reversed, I honestly cant see
>how this would be a prollem for a man

A LOT of dudes are outta pocket around women.

A LOT

can't quantify how many, but it's real as shit.

So, trying to differentiate between creep life dude, chill dude, and rapist is impossible, for a lot of people. And really, it shouldn't be a woman's responsibility.

Thing is, there's a ton of cultural ideas at play that influence all of this that may make it more than a little bit difficult to address, let alone end this type of behavior

I noticed that a considerable number of them were about the way she was dressed. " she wouldn't be getting that type of attention if she wasn't dressed that way, so clearly she's asking for it and trolling for attention." Wow so wearing jeans and a t shirt is considered provocative and attention seeking? It just blows my mind because jeans and t shirt is typical wear for women from elementary school aged girls to seniors. Like the fuck she spose to wear? Sweats and a hijab? And even then women that live in countries where are they are fully clothed, wearing Hijabs and loosely fitted clothing are still subjected to harassment and sometimes even violence. So it really dosent matter what you have on, I wish they'd kill that sentiment. Some men need to wake up realize that majority of women are not dressing for you. You shouldn't have to dress a certain way in order to feel less threatened while minding your business. I can't imagine waking up daily and wondering what I need to wear in order to be left alone.

Can't say that Ive had lots of experiences with street harassment because I don't walk the streets. But God bless the women that do. Sheesh

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/video/

^ Outside NYC.

unattractive women.

white men.

it's all there.

this issue is not about Shoshanna or that video. it's bigger than that.

If I've seen you before....I know how to approach in a mutually acceptable setting where you'll feel more comfortable.

But if I'm street hollering...it means that

a) I've probably never seen you before
b) I doubt we have the commonality where our paths will cross paths again and...
3) I got one shot, and about 5-10 seconds to make myself known or I'm going to kick myself for not saying anything.

Now, you think dudes aren't factoring in that you get approached/hollered at RELENTLESSLY by those who don't have that type of code?

C'mon yo.

This video highlighted the extremes.

Most of the dudes shown in it have no sense of style of approach AT ALL...

But y'all cannot be fucking serious with this "DON'T TALK TO ME IN THE STREETS AT ALL!!" shit....

I'm sleep tho.

D

>But y'all cannot be fucking serious with this "DON'T TALK TO
>ME IN THE STREETS AT ALL!!" shit....

^^ That's what I'm saying.

DVS, don't say hi, good morning, good evening, or make eye contact at all because they'll think you are monster out to commit sexually deviant acts.

A: if you miss one there's another coming in 15 minutes.

B: in the sea, that is.

>But if I'm street hollering...it means that
>
>a) I've probably never seen you before
>b) I doubt we have the commonality where our paths will cross
>paths again and...
>3) I got one shot, and about 5-10 seconds to make myself known
>or I'm going to kick myself for not saying anything.

too bad. get over it. see also: buses and fish.

>But y'all cannot be fucking serious with this "DON'T TALK TO
>ME IN THE STREETS AT ALL!!" shit....

bro, the bad apples seem to have ruined the bunch when it comes to street hollas and some women.

fear not. all is not lost. even women who ask not to be approached on the street agree that there are public spaces where they're fine w/being approached. and i think those women would not be offended by a simple smile at them.

but the urgency you presented above - that's a big part of the problem. the idea that a guy HAS TO APPROACH b/c he only has ONE SHOT and may kick himself later if doesn't take it. that's his problem, not hers. and that's not a good reason to approach a woman w/any aggressiveness. it's a good reason to smile at a woman though.

my thing is if I holler...I'm not trying to fuck. Being OPEN to fucking and actively pursuing it are two different things.

Based off that video...I don't care how fine she was...I wouldn't have approached. She was moving too fast and any approach (to me) would seem overly aggressive.

Regardless of whose problem it is...I'm not about to be demonized for trying to get to know someone. As long as I do it in a respectful manner and am as unobtrusive as possible....it is what it is.

If we lived in a world where women were as willing to holler at a man THEY see in the streets, I probably wouldn't feel like it's "move it or lose it"

But we don't live there. So it is what it is.

D

>my thing is if I holler...I'm not trying to fuck. Being OPEN
>to fucking and actively pursuing it are two different things.

oh stop. you don't holler at women you don't want to fuck. you don't holler at men b/c you don't want to fuck them.

'want to fuck' doesn't mean you're ready to bone right at that moment. it means you are 'open to fucking'. it's the same thing.

>Based off that video...I don't care how fine she was...I
>wouldn't have approached. She was moving too fast and any
>approach (to me) would seem overly aggressive.

good.

>Regardless of whose problem it is...I'm not about to be
>demonized for trying to get to know someone.

get out of your feelings. it's not about you.

As long as I do
>it in a respectful manner and am as unobtrusive as
>possible....it is what it is.

'unobtrusive as possible'...that's the key here.

i keep going back to the ol' smile and nod b/c that's unobtrusive as possible, as i see it. i read that here:

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/male-allies/how-to-talk-to-women/

>If we lived in a world where women were as willing to holler
>at a man THEY see in the streets, I probably wouldn't feel
>like it's "move it or lose it"
>
>But we don't live there. So it is what it is.

grow beyond your feelings. get into empathizing w/women.

don't be defensive. you're not being demonized.

try this too:

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/male-allies/educating-boys-men/

the side effect of this "Street Holler" shit is the shit I go through on the train.

Let me not return this nigga's "Hello" because he might be trying to holler
Oh shit...let me move away from this nigga because he may be trying to holler.
Let me sneer at this nigga to make sure that he doesn't try to holler.

Dude...the levels of disdain and animosity I feel on a day to day basis...and I'm not even the nigga trying to holler anymore?!?

This post is just illuminating a very big difference between the male/female (and specifically black male/female) dynamic that's out of wack.

I can't even put into words how much this shit pisses me off.

I understand the point of some of the ladies in here...but there is a flip side of it...f'real.

D

>the side effect of this "Street Holler" shit is the shit I go
>through on the train.
>
>Let me not return this nigga's "Hello" because he might be
>trying to holler
>Oh shit...let me move away from this nigga because he may be
>trying to holler.
>Let me sneer at this nigga to make sure that he doesn't try to
>holler.
>
>Dude...the levels of disdain and animosity I feel on a day to
>day basis...and I'm not even the nigga trying to holler
>anymore?!?
>
>This post is just illuminating a very big difference between
>the male/female (and specifically black male/female) dynamic
>that's out of wack.
>
>I can't even put into words how much this shit pisses me off.
>
>
>I understand the point of some of the ladies in here...but
>there is a flip side of it...f'real.
>

you know the flip side is for you and your brethren to not do the street hollers, right?

you want us to disarm so you can holler and not feel dirty about it. but the behavior still persists. LMAO. LMAO. LMAO.

point is, we are walking down the street. we just want to walk. we don't want to talk. same girl you see that you *think* you have a chance with because you've seen her before-why didn't you holler in that place you saw her before? and if that place was the street, you know it's possible you may see her off the street, right? like at a bar? and you do know that you can meet other women at bars and other social spaces too right? ones even more attractive?

y'all continue to want to assert that your right to speak to us trumps our desire to be left alone. that's really sickening.





>D
>

man, please.

You can be sensitive to women dealing with unwanted advances...but the flipside of dudes constantly feeling animosity and disdain from women for no fucking reason...that's our fault too, right?

i bring forth some salient points and that's all you got?

unsurprising.

>man, please.
>
>You can be sensitive to women dealing with unwanted
>advances...but the flipside of dudes constantly feeling
>animosity and disdain from women for no fucking
>reason...that's our fault too, right?
>
>i bring forth some salient points and that's all you got?
>
>unsurprising.

you missed my point
the reason we feel like that is because of how your brethren act

clearly asking y'all to stop, which we have been doing in this thread, is going over your head

you want us to stop feeling threatened but you aren't suggesting that dudes stop the threatening behavior

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

the problem in this scenario isnt that women are treating you with disdain. the disdain isn't unwarranted. the disdain is coming from the street harrassment. meaning the overall condition of street harassment, not some I HATE DVS HE'S A STREET HARASSER conspiracy you seem to think exists

how do you stop the disdain? STOP THE STREET HARRASSMENT

damn.

lol

and be friendly and stop looking at him all mean :( poor baby

but he doesnt think his behavior has to change. LMAO.


i gotta stop responding. i came here b/c my job is nuts right now and needed the escape but clearly what i need is to just take a walk.

the guy from the train. i see him everyday. i've smiled at him and he's not returned it in a manner that invites a holla. so i don't holla at him. and i didn't just now though we walked for 4 blocks in the same direction. i left him alone w/o telling him how beautiful his ass is in them pants or how much i like his hair cut or how i wonder what's in his bag and hey boy do fries go w/that shake? i didn't do that stuff though i felt an URGE to do it. though i may not see him again until tmrw. though he may by HUSBAND. i left him alone b/c he has a right not to be bothered by me finding him beautiful.

but i'm gay.

I don't associate with people who do it. Even the people at my job who stare at women on breaks know not to bring that shit to me because I'm not for it, I'm not in the market for it, and I find it distasteful.

What else is it I'm supposed to be doing, exactly?

THAT BEING SAID....I'm not against the street holla because I understand where it comes for and I've done it before.

So what else am i supposed to?

D

is it so hard to just get some confirmation of interest before you initiate w/the holla?

is it so hard to get that confirmation w/o being obtrusive?

you are not a villain. you're not a demon. you pick up on social cues. if you have ever caused a woman to fear for her safety b/c you approached her to say 'hello' or whatever you are hereby absolved.

you are concerned about creating that fear in women. you want to minimize the risk of creating that fear b/c even one woman feeling it by your action is too many.

you can minimize that risk by being less aggressive w/the initial contact. you haven't done wrong but you can do better by just backing off a bit on the street. just smile. don't even wave. if she smiles back or invites you somehow then go in w/the holla. if she doesn't then just leave her alone. you do this already and will keep doing it b/c you're a good guy. you were raised right. unfortunately, good guys like you have to bear the cost of bad guys in the world. it sucks, it ain't fair. it's life though. it's how we operate b/c we have empathy for others and can see beyond our own experience.

we empathize w/women here b/c we have power over them and we don't want to abuse it. we understand the playing field isn't level so what we feel when women clutch their purse ain't the same as what they feel when we approach them as strangers.

we can address our feelings about purse-clutching in some other forum. it's an issue collateral to this one. we can address that while also curbing street harassment and holla. the two are exclusive.

i mean really a smile or a wave can go a long way

shit a dude waved at me in a car today. and i thought i knew him so i waved back. if he had come at me w/ more i would have managed it because i did wave at him lol.

that's why i say it's not about you.

it's not about what motivates you to holler.

it's not about what you'll feel if you don't holler.

it's not about how you feel when ppl clutch their purse in the elevator or on the train.

the solution here isn't for women to accept street hollas so your feelings aren't bruised. this issue is about them, not you.

>B: in the sea, that is.


#jam

how is speaking on the street any different than throwing bait to see what you'll catch?

and how is a man fishing to eat any different than a man speaking to make the acquaintance of a woman?

if she takes that bait, try to reel her in w/'hello' or 'good morning' or whatever.

you have to consider that
we arent capable of not raping and killing women
ya know
were not evolved enough to know when someone is not interested
so we rape them
thats why we shouldnt holler on the streets
we cant control ourselves man
just deal with it and stop talking to women on the street
i think i feel a rape urge coming on right now
wanna join me?


this my sowhat impression

it's more like:

the woman doesn't know where the encounter is going. she doesn't know that you won't rape her. or that you won't hit her. or that you won't threaten her. or that you won't insult her. and why should she be subjected to that just b/c you think she's fine? just b/c you might never see her again? why should she have to live w/that fear, even for a moment, just b/c she's got a nice body or face or is wearing a certain piece of clothing?

maybe her fear is unreasonable. b/c you won't rape her. but she doesn't know that. but her fear is pretty realistic considering the number of these encounters that end badly (murder, rape, battery, assault, robbery, public indecency, lewdness, rudeness).

but damn...the encounters go well sometimes. so what's a guy to do?

back off a bit. at least on the street. understand that some women you see who are fine as hell will pass you by. make an effort to put yourself in places and spaces where you can approach those fine women w/o putting them in reasonable apprehension of a bad outcome. stop relying on street hollas as a way to meet fine women. expand your experience. do better.

even a hunter in the woods can't shoot at deer everyday. he has to wait for deer hunting season. when it comes to hunting women, wait for the right time and place. the street is usually NOT it.

now if thats gonna cause the average female to "throw the baby out w/ the bathwater" sorta speak and view every. single. male. that attempts to catch her eye as a potential rapist/ maniac/woman-beating lunatic then so be it...but dont tell me I gotta clap to or facilitate their irrational paranoia.

you can definitely operate w/o acknowledging women's experience. but you can't do that w/o negative consequence. like women thinking you're a fucking creep. or perv. or annoyance.

do you, bro.

back off a bit. at least on the street. understand that some women you see who are fine as hell will pass you by. make an effort to put yourself in places and spaces where you can approach those fine women w/o putting them in reasonable apprehension of a bad outcome. stop relying on street hollas as a way to meet fine women. expand your experience. do better.


so go ahead Will Smith enlighten us.

where ppl are more open to talk
and less afraid of being dragged off into a corner an potentially raped.

even IF that is an irrational fear <------ see what I did there tek? read carefully bro.
it makes more sense to just not make somebody's day worse and not holler at them on the street.

just smile and don't say anything.
if she's interested, she'll holler back.

it's happened to me twice.
i smile.
she smiled.
she turned around and asked for the time.
i fucked her that night.


that's a crass example but you asked for it.
it's really not hard.


>back off a bit. at least on the street. understand that some
>women you see who are fine as hell will pass you by. make an
>effort to put yourself in places and spaces where you can
>approach those fine women w/o putting them in reasonable
>apprehension of a bad outcome. stop relying on street hollas
>as a way to meet fine women. expand your experience. do
>better.
>
>
>so go ahead Will Smith enlighten us.

we miss out on these "opportunities" in the streets.

Granted MOST of these interactions don't end up in anything but mere harassment so they are game goofy.

What it DOES do however is put women in a class of fair game for which males can declare open season on them for the sake of "species propagation" and "life fulfillment".

But if you weren't to jump on those 5-10 second street hollas at every opportunity they come to you, what is the worst that could happen? Ultimately, you'd lose a chance to fuck those women. Period. Women who have basically demonstrated by ignoring you that they don't necessarily require that proposition of fucking you. They've already sentenced you but you want to appeal.

Point is, life would go on, and in a different social setting a woman WOULD maybe be open to you approaching her in that regard. Or on the street maybe a woman thinks you're attractive and slows up a bit, or pretends to be lost, or asks for the time to give you an in. Or she sees you and thinks you're cute, but not cute enough to be late for work and keeps it moving....either way, life and death don't depend on us trying to take every advantage of every moment.

It's not about you, cause you aren't the first and only person to say she's beautiful or tell her to smile, and you won't be the last. It is so dehumanizing and reducing cause that "hello" really means "DAMN TITTIES", cause that is literally all you know about that person.

Maybe we aren't exactly doing THEM any favors with our incessant interjections, is all I'm saying.

The Street Holla has been going on world wide since the first foot prints were made on the earth.

Geesh. What next?



.
.
.
.

has any other thread done number like this??? 590 replies at the time I hit "reply"

... maybe the "Gone Appreciation" thread that didn't want to die???

I can't even...

.
.
.
.
.

I'd like to think that most guys know how to talk to women in civilized and pleasant fashion on the street, hollaholla or not, and I'm sure plenty do. But while some of the responses in this post are reasonable and sane (with multiple perspectives), some of them make me really REALLY hope I never have a daughter.


And a bunch of threads are piles of clashing extremism that read more like trolls trying to troll trolls than any possible serious discussion.


It's a lot. Cats need to have some tea or some shit.

to those who say, "but its only hello"..

yes.. it is SAD that human beings greeting one another as they pass is now harassment..

but its a direct result of people not being able to read basic social cues, or worse, blatantly ignoring them.

and purposefully ignoring obvious body language and social cues with intent to approach is undeniably harassment.

keep your (friendly and non-agenda) hello and have a nice day to the women who are walking with their head up, making eye contact and smiling as they walk by. by all means, if someone is obviously open to you, say hello.. its how humans, a social species, interact normally.

but if someone is walking with a purpose, or with their head down, or not making eye contact, or has headphones on, or is on their phone, or is sitting reading, or any other action or stance that shows they are not looking forward with pleasurable anticipation to your advances..

then they are NOT opening themselves to your communication. ANY of it. and if you are forcing your interaction on someone who is obviously not looking for it.. that is the very definition of harassment.

just look for that.
see it.

use basic reasoning and deduction to know if someone is looking for reciprocatable communication or not and RESPECT it.

its really not that complicated.


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

Me: "Hey, what's up brother"
Him: "Hey my brother...have a good day"

or the simple eye contact/head nod.

I can say that 70 to 80% of the time....

Me: "Good morning, sister"
Her: ...................

or

Eye contact/head nod

Her: **stares in the other direction and ignores your existence**

The two other brothers I just greeted this morning didn't accuse me of sexual harassment...

I'm SO VERY sleep tho

D

did not make eye contact with you..

i bet you don't holler out "hey whats up brother" to men walking past that are not looking at you.. you say hello when eyes meet.

making eye contact is a social cue that says you are open to communication.

you dont go around saying whats up to random dudes that pass you unless they look AT you to signal they are acknowledging you.

that is the difference.



>Me: "Hey, what's up brother"
>Him: "Hey my brother...have a good day"
>
>or the simple eye contact/head nod.
>
>The two other brothers I just greeted this morning didn't
>accuse me of sexual harassment...
>
>I'm SO VERY sleep tho
>
>D


...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

but i don't think it's as one-size-fits-all a rule as it seems

i don't make eye contact with people i don't notice...doesn't mean i'm not open to communication with them...

but from a general stance...i think that's a good starting point for appropriate street/stranger communication

the only issue i have with it is men will still be socialized to take risks...especially in the pursuit of sex or even simply attention...

cars and money is really the only "passive" modes men have of attracting...and men are socialized to use active aggression (ranging from harmless to creepy to beyond) to pursue that attention

it also doesn't necessarily address the irrational (yet very tangible) fear of men as predators...a polite man or a man who obeys social cues can still flip out on someone that rejects their advances...even if the eye contact test was passed

there are other issues with it as well but i think social cues and lack of general empathy are only parts of this whole thing...it's a big messy puzzle...how do we change that socialization?

what I have NEVER done is said hello to someone who refuses to see me...but I talk to people whether they make eye contact with me or not all the time.

>I talk to people whether they make eye contact
>with me or not all the time.

why do you do this?

Because it's not about you.

Most dudes say whats up to each other and the "hello" is not sexualized. Yall say whats up on the basis of acknowledgment of mutual human existence.

Women do the same with each other, because by and large their hellos are not sexualized.

However, in the intersectionality of a woman's existence, your hello, as innocent as it may be, is based on a sexualized connotation. If you pass a woman, get eye contact, say hello, and she says hello back and you find her cute, 9 times out of 10 your NEXT thought is "oh shit, I might could fuck too". And women know this, which is why as social human beings they know to not give you an "in" is to protect their infringement on their personhood, therefore she will dismiss any attention because to acknowledge sometimes at all is to give you a green light to go forward with anything beyond "hello".

How many dudes when you say "whats up" and they say "whats up? Have a nice day" in response make you u-turn on some "shit bruh was kinda cute. I might can fuck"? I'm assuming zero. The fact that your hello is sexualized by nature has been socialized into our society, and it is inescapable for women. Even in the video most "hi/hello"s where sexually charged because it is attached to their sexual appraisal of her. That entire assessment ritual and system is based in sexism, misogyny, and patriarchy. Period. Surely, we as a society of men and women, gay and straight and asexual, and everything in between can reconstruct how our society functions in which we ALL can have our voices heard.

but ultimately you will never reach the crazies. Men who want to rape, physically abuse, stalk, verbally attack are not going be dissuaded by the PC police. People that badger women on the street tend to have nothing to lose and that is who this message is supposed to be getting to but this is a mental issue that will not be solved on the internet.

.

Never mind trying to reach some people and maybe teach the youth about different approaches in the future.
Nothing, ever at all changes, so just sit back and do nothing and let it continue. Gothca.

To just say stop street harassment is failing to ask why is there street harassment? Is it feasible to end street harassment? And if so how?

>To just say stop street harassment is failing to ask why is
>there street harassment?

b/c the ppl who harass feel entitled to harass others.

Is it feasible to end street
>harassment?

yes.

>And if so how?

find appropriate places and times to speak to strangers.

if approaching a stranger on the street do so in a least obtrusive manner first. preferably some silent social cue like a smile.

...

Vee is I and I am She

...

http://twitter.com/#!/Phenomenality
http://instagram.com/therealphenomenality
http://phenomenality.tumblr.com/archive

god bless you mami
and have a nice day

what percentage of daily "hollas" would you say are from otherwise well adjusted men?

Some of yall are playing obtuse for the sake of poasting.

and just so you know SOUTHERN CULTURE is grounded in male entitlement as well.

You know proper southern belles speak when spoken too, its just polite...
*****************************************
http://prettyperiod.me/

http://youtu.be/u8bIK3bWgog<;--HAHA

harassment isn't linked to rape in any way, like at all, nahmeannahimsayin

http://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7088867/catcall-video-hollaback-rape-threats

From my experience I think women are being overly sensitive
Having lived in NYC I was barely harassed and if I was I took it as a compliment and said thanks....don't know why that is maybe I just have a dontwantnoneofthat kinda face
Now that I'm back living in places where men don't even approach you at bars a bit of street hollering is refreshing

Honestly tho, why do you think the ladies are overreacting?

About little shit .....
Second average or below average women will always have street hollers just because men think they have a shot....but those women in turn complain about because they're telling ppl how desirable they are on the sly loooool I don't fucking know
But what I do know is y'all need to get over it cuz ain't nobody hollering at you outside of the US
Yes it's a US board yada yada yada

And wonder why other black folks are "so sensitive".

Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean most women do.

>From my experience I think women are being overly sensitive

ok look at what you wrote..."from my experience"

and below, you made it quite clear that you have barely, if ever, experienced street harassment

so it's quite honestly really sad to see you dismiss the first-hand experiences of other women that this has happened to...and then to say they are being overly sensitive about something YOU YOURSELF HAVE BARELY EXPERIENCED

i mean, really really examine what you're saying here...your lack of empathy is astounding.

shit..

d

I guess it takes a 6x Plat post to bring past A listers back. Maybe hyp will show up too.

and "sexually charged".

I think these post are good for raising awareness and making dudes more thoughtful out in the streets about how they interact with women but I don't think anyone will be able to persuade most people (including women) that saying hello is offensive. Even if we are aware that the dude is doing it because the woman is attractive and wouldn't do it to a dude.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

http://blackpeopleonlocalnews.tumblr.com/

It aint even about ME saying it.

WOMEN are saying it. That should be all that matters.

I'll definitely advocate on their behalf tho.

stop whining about ppl's unwillingness to act brand new about 'hello'.

sorry that ppl are wise to the fact that 'hello' usually ain't just 'hello'. 'hello' often means 'I think you are beautiful and I would have sex with you'. 'hello' is bait.

what you cannot seem to accept is that women have the RIGHT not to hear fucking 'hello' from you or anyone. that you don't have a right to force 'hello' on them. THAT is why 'hello' is dehumanizing. it's the force behind it. the assumption behind it. the refusal to leave her the hell alone w/o your 'hello' - that's dehumanizing.

STOP YOUR GODDAMN WHINING ABOUT THIS 'HELLO' SHIT.

smh


does it really matter?

for all my fans who keep my name in their mouth: http://i.imgur.com/v2xNOpS.jpg

Holy shit at this clusterfuck of a thread...