https://instagram.com/p/6aXCJ2JFi5/

jhharrison92: I came home to find out that my boys received two trophies for nothing, participation trophies! While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy. I'm sorry I'm not sorry for believing that everything in life should be earned and I'm not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best...cause sometimes your best is not enough, and that should drive you to want to do better...not cry and whine until somebody gives you something to shut u up and keep you happy. #harrisonfamilyvalues

--

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13447657/james-harrison-pittsburgh-steelers-takes-away-kids-participation-trophies-says-awards-earned

Steelers' James Harrison strips kids of non-winning participation trophies

No thanks for playing.

Not everyone gets a trophy in James Harrison's house, as the Pittsburgh Steelers outside linebacker wrote on Instagram on Saturday. Harrison is taking away his kids' participation trophies because he wants them to "EARN a real trophy."

Explaining his position, Harrison said he's proud of his two sons and will always encourage them. But the "2015 Best of the Batch Next Level Athletics Student-Athlete Awards" are going back.

This ought to get the attention of a few parents out there. Parenting styles aside, Harrison's football background might provide insight into why he feels this way. Harrison was a Kent State walk-on who went undrafted in 2002, played a season in NFL Europe and was cut by the Baltimore Ravens before latching on with the Steelers and becoming a force. That all drove him to "do better."

Harrison can also be a fun dad, as evidenced by this Instagram post from the pool this summer.

When asked while walking off the practice field Sunday whether he's returned the trophies yet, Harrison said, "they've already gone back," then kept walking into a haze of autograph-seekers.

"I appreciate what you're teaching your sons," one fan yelled while he signed.

Harrison, 37, sat the first few weeks of training camp but returned to action Friday night in a 23-21 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars, against whom he recorded a strip sack of quarterback Blake Bortles. He's battling Jarvis Jones for a starting spot.

I'd be shocked if Peyton, Tom, Eli, or Cam did this.

However, we talking about Hames Jarrison.

kids who play team sports have been getting participation trophies forever. Since I was a kid. Since my dad was a kid. Shit probably before that. You pay your league fees. Your kid goes out there and plays with the team. At the end of the season they get a pizza party and a trophy. This shit aint new.

Or it coddles them by gassing up their egos with undeserved accolades.

*wanking motion*

In all my years of youth sports I've never seen or heard of a kid who was terrible or mediocre think they actually did well because they got a participation trophy. Ever.

Hell, most of us hated them. Unlike a championship trophy, getting the same damn thing everyone else got went a long way to make sure it felt anything but special.

give parents something they can hold on to so they'll bring their marginally athletic kid back next season, instead of putting them in band, or pottery camp or whatever the fuck they might do otherwise.

I was a pretty good youth soccer player, but I never brought people and showed off my trophies. my mom hung on to em though, shit they're still on the mantle afaik, I just haven't looked up there in 20 years

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

everybody sees it and has an opinion.

irl, it matters zero. participation trophy, no participation trophy.

ZOMG THIS LEAGUE ISN'T KEEPING SCORRRREEEEEE


yo, have you ever needed to look at the scoreboard to know which kids in your son's leagues were good?

no, it's pretty fucking obvious, and the kids know too.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

like who the fuck does some shit like that to their kids though? We dont want our kids to be proud of something or have fun. Dont want them to be soft. Fuck your trophy son. Fuck the memories associated with that trophy. You just participated you didnt earn it. Well I guess if it was possible to teach them to work hard and earn everything and keep the trophy he would have done that.

trophies are for winners, champ. i'm totally on board with this.

you have a slooogaaaaann

congratulations bro, for jumping bravely in the way of trophies that may have otherwise ended up in the hands of kids who didn't earn them.

omg, otherwise, what would have happened? they'd have gone home with some cheap item they didn't care about.

you are truly a hero and a god among men. we should give you a trophy for participating.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

tell us who hurt you.

smooches boo!

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/marriage-relationships-proposal-engagement-engaged-romances-romantics-rman14990_low.jpg

prolly got a 20th place spelling bee trophy with his name misspelled on it.

hall pass monitor runner up trophy having ass nigga...

ole 5th place in track... standing behind the podium for his ribbon ass nigga.

ole hot glue gun electric football player from the 70's home made trophy ass nigga

let's just be 100 about what this is

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

ole paper weight trophy having ass nigga

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

c'mon bruh....not like this.

nigga was literally a participation trophy boo back in the day. smh

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Damn lol. I thought the shit was funny. I'll laugh at one of your jokes next time too so you won't take it personal. Cool?

This is possibly the greatest tactical display of diplomacy that the internet has eveer seen.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

getting a trophy that everyone else in the league got?

If they are like 5 and under sure, give em a medal or something.

...even though trophies are already meaningless

your 7th grade lacrosse championship is not impressing anyone anywhere

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

The participation trophy is basically a totem for loser dad to reflect and accept his inferior genes

lol no.

That's almost as silly as a league where they dont' keep score.

i think it depends on the age over 9 and participation trophies are kind of ridiculous

you're either first or last

>you're either first or last

That doesn't make any sense at all. You can be second, third, fourth... Hell, you can even be fifth. (c) Reese Bobby.

Real talk, I actually threw out all of my trophies at home as a kid, but the first ones to go were ones that were not "first place" or "champion."

We live during a time of mad sensitive sissies tho, so I'm sure many get upset about shit like this.

to ask to see your first place trophies

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Like something for a youth rec league is cool for a while, maybe 2-3 years and then its not.

But they are pretty dope to have as a kid. Especially if your friends were on the losing team and they frequent your crib.

But yeah, trophies are kind of dope..not sure why you are dissing them.

I took home a bunch of championships when I was a kid

I think they're bigger than the participation trophies, but I'm pretty much just guessing because I have never, ever looked at them.

That 4th grade floor hockey league win was pretty much expired after it was over. No one has ever asked me to recount the amazing exploits of my youth basketball team that won the championship. (I barely played, we had a kid that was held back twice and dunked on everybody)

I got first place ribbons, medals etc. My mom probably knows where they are, I didn't care then and I don't now.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

My older family definitely asked me about certain trophies i've had. I've walked into kids rooms and been impressed with the trophies they've had.

Its a cool thing to have/be proud of and shows that you were the best at something.

Again, they have a shelf life of a couple of years though, depending on the level of accomplishment.

there are a lot of kids w/ these walls full of championship trophies....that pretty quickly fell off.

you walk in the house and they're like sonso has these trophies, and he's playing in this league, but then you look at the pictures.

he was four inches taller than those other kids a couple years ago, but now he's the shortest one and he's just kinda "on" that travel team, not a star, but the family is still like "ok, so maybe he can get a scholarship / play D1 / go prooooo" when the talent is like...rec league

but at least they "earned" those trophies

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

just like anything else at that age. What's cool to you at 8 probably isn't at 11. Same thing from 11 to 14 and so on.

So a teenager either got new trophies to replace those <11 trophies or he sucks now so those old trophies are wack.

I've never seen what you described personally, but i'm sure it exists. But i don't think most kids are hanging on to old trophies like that

ringer on the team stealing his minutes...

that Negro and smelled no parts of crunch time.

He was that player who sat between the coaches.

it made it no more or less meaningless

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>Like something for a youth rec league is cool for a while,
>maybe 2-3 years and then its not.

I enjoyed going to pizza parties and getting a trophy at the end of the year. It was fun.

>But yeah, trophies are kind of dope..not sure why you are
>dissing them.

exactly trophies are pretty dope. Especially to a little kid. Let them have that shit and enjoy the moment. Some kids will keep playing and they will realize that a 1st place trophy is better than a participation trophy. But some kids might never play again. Let them have a reminder of the 1 season they played.

I probably have 2 or 3 boxes of trophies at my moms house. The ones I got as a kid were a big deal to me. As I got older the trophies meant less and less. As I got older and played on better teams and started "earning" trophies I could give two shits about them. Yay we won a tournament. Here mom hold this I want to hang out with my team. Oh wow MVP! Here mom hold this. I dont think I ever gave a 2nd thought to those. But had my mom made me give back those trophies I got as a 7 year old I would have been PISSED!

The journey (actually playing) was more important.

i see both sides of this, btw, and certainly think we as a society have awards and ceremonies and commencements etc. for things that are ultimately pointless.

BUT

participation trophies, if nothing else, show that the kid stuck with something and saw it til the end. whether that be the end of the season or whatever. it positively reinforces sticking to something, not quitting and finishing what you committed (or your parent commited you) to. so, for that reason alone, i don't really have a problem with it. too many kids give up and quit. those that don't get recognized for not quitting and sticking with it til the end.

yea they're kinda pointless, so what?

it's always ridiculous to me whenever people point to participation trophies as evidence of "the downfall of america"

to a kid who acted up in class.

the kid was fine but the parent went on yelp and acted a fool all because her kid didnt get a gold star for that day


I don't think participation trophies help kids... and neither does changing red ink to purple when grading test.

from preschool!! You comin to the ceremony

HELL NAW

That's not an achievement. I get what he's saying. I got two milk crates of them participation trophies in the garage. My wife jus wont let it go. The kids don't want em. When they move out, I'm dropping them shit off at they house.

Pictures are better memories IMO.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

they're on a bookcase at the top of the stairs. I DONT like her refusal to throw ANYTHING away, or make these dudes put them trophies in their room. Every time I go in the garage I gotta step over them shits; half of 'em broke and ALL of them got spiders.

blah. I'm bitter.

it's not that deep either way
he said he supports and encourages his kids regardless of outcome so meh

someone is mad as shit about his Wall of Lame.

"That may be fine and dandy BUT all I see is participation trophies on the wall"

they were just lucky enough to be on a team with other kids better than them.

this isn't as big a deal as people want to pretend it is.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with giving a kid a participation award for playing a sport for, as mentioned above, seeing it through and not quitting, even (maybe even especially) if they're not every good at it.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XAFn1xYGm24/UxDZ80xYhEI/AAAAAAAAEn0/U3xJvc-lX6Q/s1600/trophy-300x271.jpg

was in and put him in another one, while helping him to be better at the sport (if that's what he wanted)

*wasn't involved in a competition here*

*shrugs*

if anybody gon' crush my kids dreams it's gon be ME!!

ruin your relationship w/your kid and destroy their self-esteem as early as possible. that way they become tough and end up in jail and eventually prison. b/c life is hard.

that's good stuff.

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

if ever>?

kids who have that competitive drive about sports or the sport at issue will see the trophies for what they are and may want something more. the kids who don't have that drive are just fine being congratulated for having participated. in either case the kid at issue has something positive on which they can build. which is why i have no problem w/the trophies.

>the kids who don't have that drive are just fine being congratulated for having participated.

which is why age is a factor to me. At a certain age, that's unacceptable in team's sports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsMrlsfpnig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCMe2JgwSfM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxDIGkpOYf4

so what you're saying makes sense.

which you seem to keep bringing up lol.

I ref youth leagues and those 'participation type kids' get yelled at by their teammates and by the coaches and wind up riding the bench. Half the time they don't even care bc they got a team shirt and the parents get to take pictures lol. Even we as the refs get annoyed bc they are just standing there not paying attention when you are trying to give them instructions lol

Don't seem fair to me that you got kids busting their butt, playing hard, but getting pulled back by the kid that's just happpy to be there.

or would affect them at all

just doesn't make sense.

their problem is their parents are making them do something they don't want to do.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

its a silly concept in a 'competitive league'.

I guess if you want to reward a kid for sticking with something(they otherwise may not want to) that reward should come from the parent, not the league.


And by 'competitive league', I just mean a league where there is a structured regular season, playoffs, championships' setting as opposed to a more teaching/instructional setting.

You *really* think this league is all competition and not for education/instruction of the game?

Mine was 5. I could see it for 6 and 7 year olds.

My point is just make it what it is. If its a league, make it a league. If its an instructional camp, make it a camp.

Obviously, in youth leagues there's a high level of instruction/teaching going on..but the goals should be clear. If you are going through the motions of a playoffs, where the losing team gets eliminated then why are we messing around participation trophies.

being told your team loss and can't play next week is more devastating to a fragile kid then going home without a participation trophy imo

>being told your team loss and can't play next week is more
>devastating to a fragile kid then going home without a
>participation trophy imo

But I can also imagine, for some, the act of getting a trophy softens that blow. And I see nothing wrong with that at all.

to the problem then.

I'm of the controversial opinion that, if one experiences a cut or wound of some sort, a Band Aid can be a good thing.

place.

There's nothing wrong with getting cut either. Life sometimes gives you a cut. And a Band Aid isn't a bad thing. You can still learn from a cut *and* get a Band Aid. That Band Aid can be helpful.

But I've spent too much time in this post already. We fundamentally disagree. That's fine.

than letting the kids keep playing for the duration of the season?

How does telling them 'you can't play anymore bc you lost' coincide with making them feel good by giving them a trophy when you already admitted that eliminating them is more detrimental?

>Don't seem fair to me that you got kids busting their butt,
>playing hard, but getting pulled back by the kid that's just
>happpy to be there.

when those kids (and/or their parents) get enough of this action ^ then they move on to another more competitive league.

i saw this happen as an adult back when i played flag football - my team was pretty good and after having appeared in the recreational division championship game 3 yrs in a row (tough losses, those) we were invited to move up to the intermediate division. half of us didn't wanna do it b/c the intermediate level games were more intense and more competitive and we weren't there for all of that rah-rah. so the team split up.

same thing w/kids. the ones who really want competition can move to some other league.

You've got maybe 20% of the kids who are really skilled for their age.
60% who have some basic skills, are giving 100%, and serve a useful purpose on the team
And another 20% who are there for their shirt, with their dad recording everything from the time they left their house.

That's the hood leagues at least.


The leagues in the nicer neighborhoods, the breakdown is more like 1%/24%/75%

that doesn't change my mind about anything.

keywords: 'another MORE competitive...'

group.

I guess my solution would be for the parents/kids who aren't in it to take a step back, since they are the minority. (in the situation i'm referring to)

so this is really deep.

>i'd be pissed if one of these f'ers was on my kid's team"

>the kids who don't have that drive are just fine being congratulated for having participated.

which is why age is a factor to me. At a certain age, that's unacceptable in team's sports.




So obviously i'm talking about this point in time..not for life. lol
The participation kid is gonna prolly quit first chance he gets anyway

nothing you've said has convinced me that there's anything wrong w/kids receiving participation awards.

this ain't my first time posting here lol

>The leagues in the nicer neighborhoods, the breakdown is more
>like 1%/24%/75%

in youth sports, good kids usually play in highly competitive AAU or travel teams...AND play in local leagues simultaneously
some kids play in their age group and the age group above if they are that good
so it's not always as simple as just going to a more competitive league
at that level/age it's all about getting in as many hours as possible in order to get better (if the kid is gifted)

that clearly was the best player in the league. Busted a teammates nose throwing a behind the back pass to one of these 'participation kids' smh.


But dude was like chris paul out there. He was always making the 'right' play. Coach was like that f' that, shooot. lol

But you are right, dude was playing in like 4 different leagues in the summer and 2 of them was in the age group above his.

Maybe it'd be best if all the other kids just quit and we watch this superstar run drills so that the participation kids don't get in his way.

I think this comes down to what you think the sociological function of this kiddie league is. It sounds like you see it as a breeding ground for future pro athletes. Others see it more like a chance for kids to have fun playing sports.

and not paying attention, following instructions, trying, etc...

i explained all of that above.

lololol no wonder our kids suck at school smh.

b/c they're kids.

playing kids' games.

they can learn the importance of paying attention and following instructions in some other context. it's not like youth sports is the only instruction they get. they can learn life lessons somewhere else - sometimes in some leagues the kids (at least some of them) are just there for the fun of playing a game and there's nothing wrong w/that IMO.

if they aren't going to listen and pay attention. Just take your kid to the park and let him do his own thing. Don't bring him to another adult to have him 'coach' the kid and it be okay for the kid not to listen lol. You are wasting everyone's time.

LOL

refs there for a reason.

If you want your kid to just 'play a game' take him to a park or put him in a league where there aren't winners and losers, or playoffs or a championship. He doesn't have to listen to anyone. He doesn't even have to follow any rules. No one will blow the whistle if he takes 16 steps and only dribbles once.

it's fine.

again - this is why God created more than one youth sports league. some are more competitive than others.

if i want my kid exposed to higher level competition at her given age then i will find such a league. i'd likely confirm that the league DOESN'T issue participation trophies. i wouldn't sign my kid up for league that offers those trophies if i don't want my kid exposed to that 'you're all winners!' mentality.

if i can't afford such a league but my kid really wants to play then i'd do what i can to keep her competitive spirit alive until she's older when i expect to have an easier time finding a more competitive league for her.

if you want your kid to just *do something* go play catch with him or take him to the park to play with other kids

Let's assume that there's not a single kid who you work with that even sniffs doing this shit professionally. Does that mean it's all a waste of time? If we could look into the future and see that none of your kids will ever play pro.....What are you looking to achieve or accomplish with them?

I don't expect any of the kids i've been involved with to make it professionally. If we are talking 9-11 year olds i wouldn't even project them to high school.


My end goal is to just do my part in hosting/promoting a fair league where everyone had fun and the winner was decided in a fair fashion.

I thought you were a coach. But even as a ref. You're investing in this experience for these kids. Which is cool btw. Props due.

and i had to put in this time so i can advance to higher levels...so it ain't charity lol.

the parents and kids who want more competitive sporting have leagues for that. or if they don't they should.

There are parks for kids that don't want to play in competitive leagues.

which is why i keep saying "MORE competitive" league.

b/c i understand that not all competitive leagues are created equal.

i gave an example yesterday of having played in such a league as an adult - there were different levels of competition though each level had organized playoffs and championships. i wanted to play at the recreational level where we were more concerned w/enjoying ourselves than with winning. i wasn't down to practice 2 or 3 times per week and learn too many organized plays and all that jazz. hell, i barely wanted to buy cleats! lol. i was in it to get some exercise, make some friends and drink some beer. well, lots of beer, actually. and that's what i got. when it was time for the team to move to a division w/more competition i wasn't interested and so i quit.

same w/kids. there's more than one league. and if the kid can only play in one league in a given year then maybe the next year s/he can play in a MORE competitive league. by the time the kid gets to high school there's probably school leagues - where it's all about competition and all that stuff.

that rewards winners and 'punishes' losers by not allowing them to advance. The level of competition doesnt need to reward the losers with trophies. Just like the losers aren't rewarded by being allowed to continue playing. You lost, go home. That's a very competitive league. Why are we giving these kids trophies but not allowing them to play in the league any more. Sounds like a mixed message to me.

and i'm fine w/that 'mixed' message.

or something
a league is competitive by nature
unless we are talking about some teeball level thing where they don't even keep score and parents are cheering while kids are running the wrong way

if you have elimination playoffs you are in a competitive league. The whole premise is the only way you can keep playing is if you win.

i understand we're talking about competitive leagues here.

which is why i keep saying kids who want more competition can play in a "MORE" competitive.

tho there's a +/- of a year or two, depending on the kid.

You aren't fooling the kids they know who won or lost and nobody ever showed off their participation trophy . They should come up with siome other participation prizes( like a t shirt )

I mean both sides probably blow it out of proportion tho

Mom can put it in the photo album that only her and RJCC look at.


:-)

when we didn't win a championship

they were ranked nationally in VA so they were playing in Ohio States stadium vs a top ranked HS.

my sister was HEATED after the game. She told me he didn't play and she knew all along he wasn't going to play because he missed practice due to church choir practice.

Nigga still got his ring and wears that Shit like he did something tho...lol

He got to college on a football scholarship and quit first semester cause he ain't give a shit about football.

nigga stole someone's spot tho... kinda fucked up when I think about it.

i feel you on the scholly though.

the women in our family were like "he doesn't want it, he is just happy to be on the team"

but yeah, I guess he helped in practice

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I played sports in the late 80s and 90s

you have shown me!

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

^^^ same thing the ball boy said to rjcc after the championship game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw2TXsgBbY

.

He was undersized & went undrafted, worked hard & had one hell of a career and tryna
inculcate that same mindset in his kids. I give him props for him teaching them at a young age that nothing is promised & you gotta go above and beyond to get what you want.

Shit, my parents ain't come to any of our high school graduations cuz that's what was expected of us but, we partied like a mutha when we got our college degrees!

and taking them from his kids, has taught them zero about how their old man made it in the league

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>Shit, my parents ain't come to any of our high school
>graduations cuz that's what was expected of us

it's still a milestone moment whether it was expected or not. not slamming your parents, but if they missed that did they come to anything you did to support?

>
>>Shit, my parents ain't come to any of our high school
>>graduations cuz that's what was expected of us
>

nobody gave a fuck about his first step or first words or anything, lol

i don't consider my high school graduation as a milestone in my life

Thats' hella confusing.

I thought your point was that you shouldn't be proud to finish high school because it should be an expectation? But now you're saying you're proud that you weren't proud?

You're saying that you're proud of the fact that graduating high school was not a milestone in your life right? Another way of saying that is that you're proud of not being proud. Come to think of it....that's kinda what James Harrison is saying too.

a high school degree in my household was something that was expected, we celebrated when we all got our degrees.

Maybe it makes some of them feel better. Is that so awful?

"THEY NEED TO LEARN HOW LIFE IS THOUGH, FRANK!" Yeah, that's what fucking life is for. This is rec league for kids. If you're pissed your kid got a participation trophy, maybe, you know, crack open a beer, sit on your stoop, and do some deep thinking about your anger issues.

Some kids *need* participation trophies. They need validation, one way or another. For some kids, hearing "good job, good effort!" isn't a mocking chant, it's something they genuinely *need* to hear.

There's a great sports documentary called Murderball. In it, one of the coaches belittles his kid for caring about his participation trophies. The kid lives for validation from his father and he absolutely can't get it, because he's not an athlete. Later, his dad realizes he was being an asshole and learns that, for his particular kid, "tough love" is not the way to go. It's a lovely thing to witness.

I hope some of the dads who rant and rave about the horrors of participation trophies for kids take a step back and try to observe in an impartial manner whether they have the type of kid who benefits from tough love or the type of kid who just may need the validation a participation trophy can provide.

>Maybe it makes some of them feel better. Is that so awful?
>
>"THEY NEED TO LEARN HOW LIFE IS THOUGH, FRANK!" Yeah, that's
>what fucking life is for. This is rec league for kids. If
>you're pissed your kid got a participation trophy, maybe, you
>know, crack open a beer, sit on your stoop, and do some deep
>thinking about your anger issues.
>
>Some kids *need* participation trophies. They need validation,
>one way or another. For some kids, hearing "good job, good
>effort!" isn't a mocking chant, it's something they genuinely
>*need* to hear.
>
>There's a great sports documentary called Murderball. In it,
>one of the coaches belittles his kid for caring about his
>participation trophies. The kid lives for validation from his
>father and he absolutely can't get it, because he's not an
>athlete. Later, his dad realizes he was being an asshole and
>learns that, for his particular kid, "tough love" is not the
>way to go. It's a lovely thing to witness.
>
>I hope some of the dads who rant and rave about the horrors of
>participation trophies for kids take a step back and try to
>observe in an impartial manner whether they have the type of
>kid who benefits from tough love or the type of kid who just
>may need the validation a participation trophy can provide.



I'm not sure any kid "needs" a participation trophy. They need love, support and validation from their parents. They need to learn what's important is how you play the game and to have fun. They need to learn sometimes you win in life and sometimes you lose and how to be gracious in both. They can get all these things with or without a participation trophy.

> They need love, support and validation from their parents.

not everybody is getting that at home

so for the kid that ain't, and his team came in 2nd cuz his asshole teammate couldn't make a play because he's a child and not very good at sports


I'm not knocking the trophy out of that kid's hands because of some idea I have of what it should mean to him later, and then telling everyone what great deeds I'm doing for the youth of america



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>I'm not knocking the trophy out of that kid's hands because of
>some idea I have of what it should mean to him later, and then
>telling everyone what great deeds I'm doing for the youth of
>america

We don't know what a trophy means to a particular kid. It means different things to different kids. No one can just sweepingly say "THESE ARE GREAT!" or "THESE ARE AWFUL!" because, weirdly, and this might be shocking to some in this post, but not all kids are the same.

So just let them exist, the ones who don't need a participation trophy will probably just toss that shit out, and the ones who do need it will proudly put it on the shelf.

I'm surprised #HotTakes are required for something as innocuous as participation trophies.

I'd be interested to see which details I, as someone who has worked with kids my whole life as both a teacher and a rec league coach, have gotten wrong to the point of them being 100% bullshit.

>
>>I'm not knocking the trophy out of that kid's hands because
>of
>>some idea I have of what it should mean to him later, and
>then
>>telling everyone what great deeds I'm doing for the youth of
>>america
>
>We don't know what a trophy means to a particular kid. It
>means different things to different kids. No one can just
>sweepingly say "THESE ARE GREAT!" or "THESE ARE AWFUL!"
>because, weirdly, and this might be shocking to some in this
>post, but not all kids are the same.

not all kids are the same so why give all kids trophies? This is part of the reason some people hate participation trophies.
>
>So just let them exist, the ones who don't need a
>participation trophy will probably just toss that shit out,
>and the ones who do need it will proudly put it on the shelf.


no one NEEDS a participation trophy.

>I'm surprised #HotTakes are required for something as
>innocuous as participation trophies.

i have no idea what that means

so they're offended at the possibility someone else is getting the prize they've been denied without "earning" it

let's call that "earned" trophy what it is: "you're slightly taller and faster than other kids your age, this has little to no impact on your long term outlook for life. Congratulations"


but the problem is participation trophies

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

If you think about it....the biggest factor in the distribution of those earned trophies is who starts puberty first.

most kids aren't like, yup, gotta start my year round training program.

they just chalk that shit up and don't come back next year, now you have no league

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>>
>>>I'm not knocking the trophy out of that kid's hands because
>>of
>>>some idea I have of what it should mean to him later, and
>>then
>>>telling everyone what great deeds I'm doing for the youth
>of
>>>america
>>
>>We don't know what a trophy means to a particular kid. It
>>means different things to different kids. No one can just
>>sweepingly say "THESE ARE GREAT!" or "THESE ARE AWFUL!"
>>because, weirdly, and this might be shocking to some in this
>>post, but not all kids are the same.
>
>not all kids are the same so why give all kids trophies? This
>is part of the reason some people hate participation trophies.

Because the kids who don't need them can toss them out easily, and the kids who do are immensely grateful.

>>So just let them exist, the ones who don't need a
>>participation trophy will probably just toss that shit out,
>>and the ones who do need it will proudly put it on the
>shelf.
>
>
>no one NEEDS a participation trophy.

This is wrong. I say this as someone who's worked with kids battling depression, autism, Downs, kids with unsupportive parents, kids with abusive parents, and kids who just can't catch a fucking break. Some kids, whether you want to acknowledge them or not, absolutely need a participation trophy.

>>I'm surprised #HotTakes are required for something as
>>innocuous as participation trophies.
>
>i have no idea what that means

I would say if you don't know what something means, you shouldn't dismiss it as bullshit.

I guess some cats can just relate to the underdog more than others.

And I would've told him so.

He wouldn't have needed a participation trophy. But he's also, y'know, an adult.

Some kids need validation in different ways. And there are absolutely kids out there whose day, week, month, maybe fucking *year* would be made by a trophy on the mantle, showing how hard he/she has worked, even if the season didn't work out.

I can't begrudge a kid for feeling that way. Ever.

like, that is soooo far from just getting a trophy cause your parents paid the rec fee.

in the most competitive league in the world.


what the fuck are you talking about?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>in the most competitive league in the world.
>
>
>what the fuck are you talking about?
>
>www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

is their constant need for validation...

but maybe it's overblown

the main problem employers have is that they're paying shit

since when were we on management's side?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

usually Millenials. Those kids are fucking hard-nosed GAMERS.

than their predecessors ever did.

they've been ranked and judged constantly, and they see the doors that close when you fall off.

meanwhile, some exec who never had to compete with a black guy or a woman for a job and who had a starting job that paid double what kids are getting, w/o a degree, is calling them lazy and entitled, blaming participation trophies.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

kids aren't working harder today. where the Fuck did you get that bullshit from?

there's no way to answer this

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

be coming from parents but don't. I get that and thats' fine.

Wouldn't want them for my kid. Neither does james harrison. What's wrong with that?

and I explained it in reply #5

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

If you are certain your kid is the type that would respond poorly to a participation trophy, it's your right to make the best choice for your kid. Obviously. You can choose to throw out a trophy.

But how do you know if your kid wants a trophy like that until he/she is given it? And if you try to toss it to "teach a lesson" to your 6-year-old... again, is that a lesson that needs teaching there?

I don't have the answers. I'm just fighting against the idea that these trophies are pointless and that all kids need to be taught this lesson at such a young age.

of would i want my kid to participate in a trophy for everyone league. I can't say for a fact that I'd actually take the trophy away from the kid and chuck it. lol

I mean, my kid would get validation from me so he likely(hopefully)wouldn't need it from the a trophy. Depending on the situation, I can see him being 'rewarded' for completing something ie he thought he liked baseball, wasn't very good at, but was encouraged to the season through...I def would see the value in rewarding him with something. Just not a trophy lol.

I've spent the post addressing Harrison chucking his 6 and 8 year old's trophies in order to "teach a lesson" and the widespread cosigning this action has received. I just don't think, having worked with kids that young, that that's a lesson that needs to be taught in that way.

Life will come up with many ways to teach you lessons about fairness and relative achievement that your dad doesn't need to do by chucking trophies into the trashcan, lol. And kids will deal with those lessons, as we all do, as they come.

or maybe because he's an idiot, he doesnt?

Maybe he walked in on his kids celebrating a bragging about their participation trophies and didnt' want them to end up like Lin, Nick Young, and Jordan Hill.

https://youtu.be/fsreIMdzOqg?t=101

we don't know (c) kanye

I think participation trophies can be ok for some kids and not a good idea for others. agree or disagree?

>I think participation trophies can be ok for some kids and not
>a good idea for others. agree or disagree?

they'll mean more to some kids than others for myriad reasons. but i don't think any kid is harmed by receiving a participation trophy.

Some kids will want to just throw them out. That's fine. That's the kid's choice. The kid can make that choice him/herself.

The dad doesn't need to be the one making that choice. And if it means that much to him, he can call the league before signing up and make sure they don't hand out participation trophies, not yank the trophies out of the kids' hands after they've received them.

to get it and being disappointed when they dont get one next time. Or thinking its not fair.

It's about preventing them from experiencing tough life lessons later?

Like I said above, I'm out of this post. Y'all have fun.

at 6 (losers get trophies) and something different at 8?

that doesn't make any sense.

LOL

why teach something different at 6 than what's taught at 8....

sheesh.

acting like kids are gonna drop out of school and turn to a life of crime if they don't get a participation trophy to give them the love that daddy and coach never did. kicking down straw men like the world's worst buddy cop team. nobody is "ranting and raving about the horrors of participation trophies for kids." literally, no one is doing that. stop.

all we're saying is that trophies have a purpose, and rewarding participation isn't it. making up for bad/abusive parenting or bad/abusive coaching isn't it. teaching kids that they're all special isn't it (again, that's what parenting and coaching is for).

trophies are a reward for hard work and excellence, period. they represent a goal to reach for, an incentive to be the best you can. and when you and your team gets there, you get one. and it means something. and you can look back and say we did that. all that is valuable, and you're taking it away from kids when you hand one out to everyone. trophies are for winners.

you can't disagree with the actual points

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

has earned me prizes of actual value, and pays off daily in my work.

you can keep your trophy

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Respectfully. I think there's obvious value in participation trophies for young kids.

"This is how I feel -- if you want to see the Pittsburgh Steelers, invite us when we don't win the Super Bowl. As far as I'm concerned, he would've invited Arizona if they had won," said Harrison.


http://www.mondesishouse.com/2009/05/steelers-will-visit-white-house-sans.html

" As far
>as I'm concerned, he would've invited Arizona if they
>had won," said Harrison.

that shit has worked out for him, but logic ain't his strong suit

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Now it all makes sense. He's just very very stupid.

This is like dismissing the presidential election as a popularity contest.

I'm kinda surprised this went so unnoticed in the context of the thread. There should be 20 to 30 lol's after this.

Over some trophies for 7 year olds. Jesus. SMH.

But this post has challenged me a bit.

every single time.

It's just parental grandstanding. This has nothing to do with his kids....it's his opportunity to make sure everyone knows he is the world's best father. Same thing when parents give their kids humiliating haircuts or post up spanking videos. Look at MEEEEEEEE

But real life is hard, and no amount of trophies can shield kids from the disappointments and challenges they'll eventually face.

"I like kids. I want them to be happy and do well," said Merryman, who has mentored Olympic athletes. "But I'd much rather have a 6-year-old cry because he didn’t get a medal than have a 26-year-old lose it because they realized they weren’t as special as they thought they were."

Learning the true values of hard work, perseverance and resilience, that's the real reward. All other trophies pale in comparison.



Armour: James Harrison is right, you shouldn't get a prize for showing up
Nancy Armour, USA TODAY Sports 8:40 p.m. EDT August 17, 2015
2015-08-17-james-harrison-participation-trophies

Life isn't always fair.

You can work your hardest, try your best, expend every ounce of energy you have and sometimes things just don't work out the way you hoped or imagined. That's just the way things go.

Yet somewhere along the way, someone had the misguided notion that kids should live in a la-la land where everything is perfect, there are no hardships or heartbreaks, and you get a shiny trophy or a pretty blue ribbon just for being you.

There's time enough to get acquainted with reality, the thinking goes.In the meantime, children should be praised and encouraged, reminded at every turn how wonderful they are.

No wonder study after study has shown that millennials, the first of the trophy generations, are stressed out and depressed. They were sold a bill of goods when they were kids, and discovering that the harsh realities of life apply to them, too, had to have been like a punch to the gut.

Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison may be the last person you want to take life lessons from, given his history of violence on and off the field. But his announcement Sunday that he was giving back his 8- and 6-year-old son's "participation" trophies because they hadn't earned them was dead on, and that message shouldn't be discounted simply because he was the one delivering it.

"While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy," Harrison said in a post on Instagram. "I'm sorry I'm not sorry for believing that everything in life should be earned and I'm not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best."

Amen.

Everybody-gets-a-trophy proponents say children should be rewarded for their efforts, that the prizes give kids incentive to always try their best and persevere. But isn't that what the orange slices and cookies are for? By handing out trophies and medals at every turn, it actually sends the opposite message, essentially telling kids it's enough just to show up.

Why should a kid strive to improve or put in the extra effort when he or she is treated no differently than the kid who sits in the outfield picking dandelions? Or, as NFL MVP Kurt Warner said on Twitter on Monday, "They don't let kids pass classes 4 just showing up!"

"The whole idea is to protect that kid and, ultimately, it’s a huge disservice. What kids need is skill-building. Help them do what they’re doing and do it better," said Ashley Merryman, co-author of Top Dog: The Science of Winning and Losing.

"The benefit of competition isn’t actually winning. The benefit is improving," Merryman added. "When you're constantly giving a kid a trophy for everything they’re doing, you're saying, 'I don’t care about improvement. I don't care that you're learning from your mistakes. All we expect is that you’re always a winner.' "

And if you've taken a peak at any 9-year-old's room recently, you'll see how much those precious trophies and ribbons really mean. Most are either coated in dust or buried in the back of a closet.

If we're honest with ourselves, the trophies, ribbons and medals we hand out so willingly are more about us than the children getting them. It's affirmation that our kids are as wonderful as we think they are. It's also a way to fool ourselves into thinking that we're sheltering them, at least temporarily, from the cold, cruel world.

But real life is hard, and no amount of trophies can shield kids from the disappointments and challenges they'll eventually face.

"I like kids. I want them to be happy and do well," said Merryman, who has mentored Olympic athletes. "But I'd much rather have a 6-year-old cry because he didn’t get a medal than have a 26-year-old lose it because they realized they weren’t as special as they thought they were."

Learning the true values of hard work, perseverance and resilience, that's the real reward. All other trophies pale in comparison.

The writer assumes all kids who play sports are future stars in training. The majority aren't. And plenty Millenials who never played sports or received participation trophies are depressed.

This is just more bellyaching about how 'weak today's kids are'. Bleh.

>The writer assumes all kids who play sports are future stars in training.

"The whole idea is to protect that kid and, ultimately, it’s a huge disservice. >>What kids need is skill-building. Help them do what they’re doing and do it better<<," said Ashley Merryman, co-author of Top Dog: The Science of Winning and Losing.

...there are plenty kids playing sports who don't need or want skill-building.

"The benefit of competition isn’t actually winning. The benefit is improving," Merryman added.

...again, plenty kids playing sports don't need improving. b/c they're not in it for all of that. they're just there to have fun.

plus all of this shakes out as the kids age and the competition gets more fierce as some kids improve (b/c they get skills-building in other contexts) and others don't. the ones who don't improve tend to fall by the wayside and do other things than kids' sports. the ones who are interested in playing sports (or have awful parents) will continue.

so i remain unconvinced that participation trophies are a bad thing

So there are life lessons learned by a kid participating in youth sports/leagues.

Going with the premise that a kid is playing a sport bc they want to and enjoy it,

if he has a weakness or isn't good, work to get better at it. He doesn't have to be star in training to want to be better at something. The lesson from being a C player one season, working hard and becoming a B player the next year is a valuable life lesson that extends beyond sports. A participation trophy doesnt exactly do that.

Besides the life lesson aspect, wouldn't the kid enjoy playing xyz sport more if they got better at it? Doesn't have to do anything with being a star in training.

if the c players parents take them out of the league and find something else to do with their saturday.


Enter the participation trophy

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

maybe the kid feels like a winner because he completed the season and that will motivate him in the future. Maybe it will make him feel complacent and not motivate him, because he sucked but he still got a trophy which is synonymous with winning.

Or maybe his parents take him and his friends out for ice cream bc they are glad he participated. Kid doesn't feel like a winner bc well, he lost. But he's having a good time with his friends and knows his parents love him. And the next time he competes at something, he still has the goal of getting his 1st trophy.

Roll Credits.

or keep obsessing over WHAT THE KID THINKS HE GOOTT BUT DIDN'T EARNNNNNNNN

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

That the role of a reward/trophy NEEDS to be motivation for that kid to continue to get BETTER. I suppose that might be one of many reasons we give out trophies....but you're argument hinges on the assumption that it's the ONLY reason.

i played Little League for one year and quit b/c i hated it.

there will be plenty kids in any given youth sport who are like that. playing a sport is not necessarily going to teach any kid any life lessons. some of them will just go have fun (b/c they're KIDS). and if they don't maybe they'll quit. the ones who are into the competition and building skills and life lessons and all that will continue. the others fall by the wayside.

>The writer assumes all kids who play sports are future stars
>in training. The majority aren't. And plenty Millenials who
>never played sports or received participation trophies are
>depressed.
>
>This is just more bellyaching about how 'weak today's kids
>are'. Bleh.

Maybe they were coddled in other ways, I'm not going to claim to know what's right and ( I'm not totally against participation trophies especially for little kid), parenting is hard and all kids are different, but I understand the concept of tough love isn't because the parents hate the kids but they are just trying to toughen them up and prepare hem for a tough world.

"Child psychologists agree that supporting the efforts of a 6-year-old in a losing season will ultimately scar the child and leave him a whimpering pussy for the remainder of his days!"

He's fucking six. Do people understand how young that is?

and at 6 he's presumably got a looooong time to develop skills and competitiveness. it's okay if he doesn't have it at age 6. lol. he's got plenty time.

>But isn't that what the orange slices and cookies are for?

Trophies have a specific connotation. If you want to reward the kids for completing the season/whatever have an end of league party or take em out for pizza or ice cream or something.

like you would get to the olympic level and only just then realize you'd been getting participation medals, and have to walk all the way home live on TV

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

that analogy was weak af.


Literally zero people are at their jobs thinking "yup, it's all good, it's like a participation trophy"


that's something old people, who have been coddled all their lives and never had to deal with an economy like the one we have now, tell themselves to feel better.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

it* being losing their cool. Bc that goes with the whole tone of the article.

I think the author of the article describing the guy as coaching olympic athletes throws the thing off.

If your interpretation is right, then i agree that was a dumb point...i'm not sure how it makes even makes sense.

When you take this idealogy literally.....they're worried about a med school student saying to himself 'You can probably skimp on the studying tonight....remember when you got that cap and gown after graduating kindergarton? Easy peasy.'

by handing out trophies to everyone. that's not what they're for. if your kids don't feel special, you're a bad dad and a garbage coach. don't turn trophies into "i'm special" t-shirts to make up for it. teach your kids right, coach your kids right, and give them a trophy when they win.

parenting.

Not getting validation at home
Being forced to play something they aren't interested in

>Not getting validation at home
>Being forced to play something they aren't interested in

lol....orange slices and cookies are FOOD aka sustinence. Not rewards for participation. Unless the author thinks we shouldn't give our kids food because you have to earn it 'in the real world'.

The other bullshit premise at the bottom of all this is that the person with the most character will win the game. This is a common sports cliche that simply isn't reflected in reality. Genetics is the number one factor in sports success. Everything else is a bunch of folk psychology that is easily dismissable by simply observing pro athletes. They AREN'T leaders of society....people of the highest moral values. I mean, why are so many pro athletes completely lost in life after their playing careers are over? Why doesn't it translate in real life? The 'hard work, perserverence, resilience'....pro athletes would be the most upstanding members of society if this were true. The most successful people outside the world of sports as well. Fact is.....this shit is based on genetics first and foremost.

And I'd like to see when, in socio-cultural history, mid-life people said 'y'know, this new generation coming up are so much more focused than we were. We used to get things handed to us....but not these kids today. They're work ethic is impeccable'.

I love this part: 'Why should a kid strive to improve or put in the extra effort when he or she is treated no differently than the kid who sits in the outfield picking dandelions?' WTF? The child should be motivated by the end goal of being 'treated differently'? What exactly is he suggesting by that? He's suggesting that Kurt Warner would have never become a great football player if there were participation trophies? Like Kurt would've said 'screw this....I don't need to get better at football because I'm gonna get a participation trophy regardless'. When you actually flush this shit out it sounds ridiculous.

I love sports....I work in sports media. I was a gifted, competitive athlete in a variety of sports growing up. My pops always raised me with the awareness that this shit is NOT a mirror of life. War euphemisms in sports should NOT be mistaken for being literal. The greatest lessons in life are NOT learned on the pitch. All that shit is delusional.

It's a fucking game.

I'm so thankful he didn't fill my head with all that junk like alot of the other parents did with their kids. Key and Peele did a friggin epic skit called 'TeacherCenter'. If you haven't seen it this is really worth a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkHqPFbxmOU

I thought I'd be in the NBA until about 6th grade. I thought I'd be married to my high school sweetheart until 18 months later. I thought my first professional acting gig meant I'd be a consistently working actor forever.

I've thought a lot of things in life that were naive at best and stupid at worst. Life taught me those lessons.

I didn't need my dad telling me at the beginning of all of these thoughts, "No son, you won't be a basketball player." "No son, you will probably break up with Stacy." "No son, you won't want to commit to what it takes to be a consistently working actor." He let me figure those things out myself. As a result, I learned a *ton* about basketball, girls, and acting in the process.

You're not going to damage a kid by *not* teaching him that life's unfair after a rec league for fucking 6 year olds gives a 6 year old a participation trophy. You may even be encouraging him to continue pursuing a sport that he'll love the rest of his life. He'll realize at some point that he is or isn't good enough to pursue it professionally. A coach will tell him, or a scout, or he'll just realize it himself. Trust your kid can handle life lessons as they come, and support your kid as he deals with the fallout.

When I try to evaluate my parenting style objectively...I can see that I'm sometimes guilty of this. Not in this participation trophy sense....but I think sometimes I can be guilty of trying to teach the kids lessons without letting them happen organically like you described. Like a 'let's be realistic' parent. I should check myself on that more often.

and I wore that participation medal all goddamn day with PRIDE.

course or themselves. Not against other runners.

If a youth league is set up as instructional or a camp, a participation/completion plaque/award/medal is totally appropriate. It signifies you completed something

If its a structured league with w/l records, playoffs, championships...participation trophies are wack.

still understood you needed to work to get paid because that's how life is.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

unless they gave one out to everyone who showed up at the starting line, that's not a participation trophy. that's a "i set a goal, worked for it, and reached it" trophy. so, you know... a trophy.

which is what a participation trophy is.

it's not like kids get the trophy on the first day of practice. do they?

they should've gave him a t-shirt or something. handing out medals for finishing the race is wack. and, yeah, this was a bunch of adults too? lol. yeah. no.

Most people don't participate in runs to come in 1st. Which is why women race with men, 80 year olds with 20 year olds. In that group are people that are racing against themselves (or previous times).

Runs aren't competitions against the field...unless you are in some competitive racer league or something lol

IIRC, I bately finished in the top half. It was a participation medal.

Was your goal to win? What place did you come in? What was the winning time? What was your time?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

The question after is what was your time..its never what place were you in? lol

Alot of those races have rewards for the winners but you also get something for finishing just like a tough mudder.

Like i said, unless he was in some sort of competitive runners league.

gotcha.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

again - the kids who want more competition can play in another league. if not *this* year then *next* year. as they age the competition will become more intense. there will be fewer chances to play an organized sport just for fun. that's fine too.

... that's not an accomplishment either?

I'm confused what is and what isn't an accomplishment in this post.

elimination playoffs/championships.

So the original point many are making of "Harrison did the right thing" doesn't seem to be the same point you are trying to make. The original point is the reason those defending participation trophies are likely so riled up.

I don't even think I was in a league with participation trophies. I doubt I was the type of kid who would want a participation trophy. But I've seen firsthand numerous young kids who I don't doubt for a second would've liked one, and I wouldn't deny them the one given to them by the league to "teach them a lesson."

participation trophies lol

The league gave them out.

From there, it's Harrison's choice what to do.

I disagree with what he did.

in any event, It makes sense to you to have a league with elimination style playoffs AND to give out participation trophies? Can't it be detrimental to the kids to tell them 'hey, because you lost you can't play next week?'

>in any event, It makes sense to you to have a league with
>elimination style playoffs AND to give out participation
>trophies?

Sure. It's not what I would've wanted, but I can certainly see how certain kids would have liked a commemoration of their hard work during the season.


Can't it be detrimental to the kids to tell them
>'hey, because you lost you can't play next week?'

No one tells their kid that, lmao. You tell them, "The season was going to end eventually, and the point is you tried your absolute best, and I'm very proud of you. If you think you could have done better, I'll help you practice for next season."

The idea that the season is over can be heartbreaking, but not "detrimental." I save the word "detrimental" for things like "ripping trophies out of a kid's hands and tossing them into the trash can and posting about it to the world on Instagram to tell the world the lesson you taught your 6 year old kid about losing," lol.

And re: the title of your reply, if he's so adamantly against participation trophies, he may want to talk to the league/coach ahead of time to see if this is that type of league. Otherwise, he may just have to cope with the fact that his kid may be handed a participation trophy. And he could choose to respond in a way that isn't yanking that trophy away from his kid.

with elimination playoffs. I wouldn't even think to ask if there were trophies for all if a league was set up that way.

of the season. not the beginning. if you quit the team and don't finish the season, you don't get one. so, in fact, you get it for completing something which is the season that you committed yourself to.

i do, however, agree that for competitive leagues there really shouldn't be any, but i don't much think there are in most leagues of that nature.

>i do, however, agree that for competitive leagues there really shouldn't be any, but i don't much think there are in most leagues of that nature.

without achieving elite accomplishment.

Without any real thought given to what it teaches kids that they should only feel special upon achievement.

As if the "achievement garners reward" model has no flaws.

that connotation is winning.

Taking your kid out for ice cream, pizza or throwing them a party has a connotation too. Its that your kid is loved and special.

by making the trophy "earned" you're just pushing back the realization that this win didn't get them shit

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

that's pretty cool and not all their friends have.

it's really not that cool


it's not even rare. the problem is the trophy isn't the incentive you want to believe it is.

if the kid's motivation is a trophy, they're probably not going to make it at all. they don't process goals that way.

so obviously, it's not about setting a target for the kid at the end of the season.

I wonder who kids know that have brains developed enough to absorb a long term goal, perhaps a person with a car to drive the kid around, and money to pay registration fees. hmmmm

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Do you know what makes an mvp trophy special or any other professional trophy special. Its what it symbolizes. Its a cool thing to have bc of what it symbolizes. SAme thing with a kid.

Some leagues don't have trophies. Doesn't mean the kid is gonna try less. I see kids get happy all the time when they are getting trophies whether they knew they were getting it or not. The only kids i've seen act like it wasn't a big deal were those kids that probably won a rack of them already.

that's why the stakes are so high w/these trophies - youth sports is the end of the line for kids. it's 'now' or never. if kids don't develop skills in sports by age 6 or 7 they can forget their chance at getting looked at by scouts and their chance to win college scholarships and eventually make the pro leagues is all over. by age 7. so those participation trophies ARE bullshit.

i see it now.

if the kids don't learn the importance of winning over anything else they'll be destitute by age 10. just look at all of the 10 yr olds on skid row and in prisons - all b/c of participation trophies. hell, most of the clients i represent in criminal cases were 'awarded' those trophies and now they expect me to just 'win' their case for them w/o them doing any work. everything is handed to them and they don't appreciate the value of hard work. or the value of anything. we shoulda never gave them niggas trophies - they don't know how to appreciate shit!

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

none of the stuff you say adds up

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

is it more important than your marriage?

Its a symbol of something. What it signifies is important. i've been consistent throughout. Does a trophy matter to every single kid. No. That doesn't contradict anything else i've said.

you're sure that kid taking pride in a meaningless trophy is not a good thing


but if they take pride in a similarly meaningless trophy that they "earned" by being victorious over other kids of limited size and skill, that's a good thing. even though they'll figure out that it's meaningless in a couple of years.

because maybe they'll work harder. or maybe they won't. or maybe they'll work hard when there's no trophy at all

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

i've said the opposite.

I also said that not every kid is going to react the same way to a trophy.

I'm not sure what point you think you've proven?

which is why I did not say that you said that.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>you're sure that kid taking pride in a meaningless trophy is not a good thing

i'm not sure what that statement has to do with me.

Make sure he knows there's no Santa. Make sure he knows that his first relationship will end in heartbreak. Make sure he knows about the futility of Man's existence in the universe.

but still got that diploma up on the wall.

School is similar to a Marathon/Camp where the goal is to complete it.

The goal of a league isnt to complete the season.

teach the competition and teamwork and hone their skills.

>teach the competition and teamwork and hone their skills.


If a coach said at the beginning of the year, "our goal is to make it through the season" he's setting the bar awfully low and the kids will follow.

the goal IS to make it through the year, eventually some of those kids are going to stop coming

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

kids flag football team and I ref basketball. When I ref, there's a distinct difference between competitive leagues and instructional ones. I haven't done the instructional ones in a while, but the ref is basically another coach on the floor lol

Like i said before if the main goal is instruction, then give everyone a 'whatever you want'.

If you are structuring elimination playoffs and having a championship game, participation trophies are silly.

the point is the difference in the drive and level of competition, has nothing to do with end of season rewards.

but few kids start off in those competitive leagues.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

league/setting. I never said otherwise.

I just think whats more beneficial for the kids and everyone is a camp where they really learn, and improve their skills and then you mix it in with games. A 'trophy' at the end of that would be silly, but a medal, plaque, certificate etc would be very appropriate.

and as a function of my job i'm at various team practices/meetings all the time for one reason or another.

and coaches can tell that bullshit to parents all the time about making their kids better people and getting them exercise. that's all lip service to please them. but at the end of the day results are what matters.

that shit was so dumb it wasn't worth replying to

I found 100% of my basketball leagues through school, wandering the neighborhood or by being recruited by other players. Only thing I needed from my parents were league and ref fees (and not even all of the time). I played because I liked playing, and not for some form of validation. Pretty much all of the guys I played with had the same mentality. We lived and breathed playing ball as soon as we got old enough to actually play in leagues.

I can respect the place that participation trophies fill, but (in retrospect) personally I'm glad I didn't play in that kind of league as a kid. Some of my most important life lessons came from that burning feeling of failure, and not wanting to feel like that again.

and you participated in sports outside school before middle school

then you almost certainly DID play in one of those leagues. it's kinda impossible that you didn't

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Everyone else got to keep their league t-shirts. I guess that counts as a participation "trophy."

I grew up in Philly, so finding my own leagues without my parents was easy. Just show up at the court and be tall (I was). These were neighborhood rec leagues, and the "soccer mom" culture just didn't exist here. Never saw parents fighting or even arguing about the games. The crowds were mostly people from the neighborhood, a few parents and other ball players.

I'm 37, btw, so I'm a little over your cut-off.

in any league where there was a championship game.

Not trying to be snarky here. I don't recall if there were participation trophies in all of my sports leagues at that young an age.

i use camp loosely bc it was 1 hour every saturday. They did shooting practice and some dribbling stuff and then played a 'game'. Although, we kept score there was no WL records, playoffs, or championships. At the end of the season, there was a pizza party.

At 9 is when the leagues started. The coaches held a practice before the game and there was a playoffs and championship game. 1st and 2nd place team got trophies or trophies and medals. Everyone in the league had a pizza party at the end.

participation trophies weren't a thing back then...

2nd place got a small ass trophy and that's it.

and everybody got a trophy

It's funny too, because a friend I made from that team tweeted about how he'd never been in a league that gave away participation trophies and I had to pull his card.

a girl we played with on that same squad went on to play in college. somehow the unearned trophy we got didn't negatively affect our lives at all

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

precisely because the parents are always on their ass about practicing and perfectly their game
that's why the 'no love at home' argument is kind of weird. usually the kid daydreaming while the ball rolls past his feet is the kid coddled with supportive parents. so much so that the parents are willing to invest time and money into something the kid barely gives a fuck about

some kids enjoy playing in those leagues where they receive participation trophies. some don't. some care about the trophies. some don't.

i don't see where any of them are HARMED by receiving the trophies though.

or throw a ball correctly



not a super young kid of course. But like 3rd or 4th grade and up .



no reason why a Dad shouldn't at least spend a half hour a day outside with the kid showing him the fundamentals.


Enrolling a kid in a team sport shouldn't be their first or only experience with that sport

some kids have no interest in sports
and that's fine

the chess club is perfectly fine in my book

that he has no interest in sports. Those things aren't taught in the context of sports. They're taught in the context of playing with dad in the park or backyard.

what if he doesn't want to play catch w/you in the backyard?

is that okay?

but, most really young kids don't have that kind of self-awareness. They play with dad because dad is playing with them.

like if you a give a kid a ball with no instructions he gonna try and throw it.

and if you give her instructions maybe she doesn't wanna follow them. maybe she'd rather just throw the ball.

that's okay too.

they wanna play w/dad but don't want to play catch. b/c playing catch isn't necessarily fun for kids.

and that's perfectly fine.

plenty kids have parents who can't play a given sport well but the kid wants to play.

i dunno why that should earn a side-eye. lol

catching.

a kid wants to play a sport. the kid's father can't throw or catch.

so what?

plenty men who can't catch or throw are raising kids.

and?

lulz, i guess.

why can't an adult throw or catch?

physical or mental disability.

lack of interest.

many other reasons.

You don't need a high level of hand eye coordination to throw/catch


>physical or mental disability.

fair


>
>lack of interest.

never met a non-disabled adult who went through life without a desire to throw or catch something.

>
>many other reasons.
>
>
sure.

>You don't need a high level of hand eye coordination to
>throw/catch

no but plenty dudes don't have even the low level of coordination required to catch and/or throw.

>never met a non-disabled adult who went through life without a
>desire to throw or catch something.

*shrugs*

keep living.

>no but plenty dudes don't have even the low level of coordination required to catch and/or throw.

He doesn't want to try to learn properly because he's already almost 9 and I can tell it's a sore spot for him. Someone's undoubtedly made fun of him at school for it already. So I never suggest it anymore. I wasn't around during his formative years....but it's perfectly possible that even if I was and tried to play catch with him earlier on....he might still throw like a girl. He's a tad feminine in his mannerisms across the board.

There's absolutely nothing lost in his inability to throw well. There are HUGE potential pitfalls in placing a huge importance on it if he fails to live up to it as an expectation. Especially if we associate it with being a 'normal boy' or something like that. That's very dangerous territory.

Wait......

ups of throwing to be able to allow you to teach him to do it. IF he doesn't have that, he won't feel comfortable bc of you waht you mention with the other kids.

Its doubtful that he's really over 'wanting to throw a ball' at 9. No different than a kid that wants to ride a bike, falls and is scared to get back on and doesn't want to do it anymore. He really does. He's just scared.

He's really good at music and drawing. That's where we boost his self-esteem. In the areas that he feels comfortable and confidant. This is what I mean though.....if some kid who was a wicked baseball player wasn't a good artist.....would we pull our hair out worrying about his deficiency in drawing? No, we'd just focus on baseball.

Sports dudes have tunnel vision. There's more to life. "My kid will be able to throw a baseball". It might not be within your power to instill that. You have to work with what comes naturally to the kid. Sheesh

Do you think he ideally wish he knew how to throw a ball or that it really isn't a big deal to him at this point?

It seems weird to me that you would boost his self-esteem in the areas he's good at already. He really needs the boost in the areas he lacks confidence in right?

I mean i'm not a parent so maybe i don't know..i have studied psychology though.

I sense that's hard for you to accept. lol. There are lots of boys who aren't interested in sports. It would be cool if he was cause I'd love to take him shooting baskets and watching Raptors and stuff like that. But he never responded to any of that so i didn't push it. There doesn't have to be a 'reason' that he's not interested in sports. He's just not.

That implied that he actually tried it. The fact that you know how he throws implied that he threw a ball before. I assumed he did it bc it was of interest to him at a point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuFcWZ-S7as

"You don't get a trophy for losing...You get pizza and shut the hell up!"

And he wants everyone to know about it. lol

To be fair....he does state that he is proud of his boys for other things. But when he's talking exclusively as pertains to their participation in football...he's essentially proud of not being proud.

and which are still holding on to childhood achievements.

and which still think childhood insults work on adults.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

nigga beatin the shit outta the same spot on the stand.
coach gotta come out and keep puttin the ball back up.

eventually they just let lil buddy walk to 1st
and still got the nerve to clap.

don't keep score.

Oh we just want the kids to have fun.

PHUCK THAT.


Did you see my son score them 5 buckets? Gimme my gotdamn registration fee back. FOH

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star
Appropriate Behavior
Margaret

just like everything else in OKP, folks are full of rhetoric but no experience.

You don't know WHAT your kid will need,

some may need a trophy, but also may need a ton of tough love because they over-value themselves.

Some may not need a trophy but still require positive reinforcement in the home because they are perfectionists and think they never get it right.

as a parent.

their parents.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star
Appropriate Behavior
Margaret

cause they couldn't stand seeing their kid walk off the field empty handed after a 2-12 season.

when we saw other teams win trophies we tried to get better so we could win one...

but now everyone gets one so why try to win since we all get hardware?

it's funny because that article Denny linked to describes the participation trophy niggas to a T.

Quick to play victim, always jumping to the worst conclusion, quick to snap on people over the slightest injustice...

Generation Wuss is the progressive playery nigga.

>Quick to play victim, always jumping to the worst conclusion, quick to snap on people over the slightest injustice...

I'm a start using that.


OKP: WAAAAH, my friend invited me to his house, then started playing on his IPHONE. He's so rude and disrespectful.
Me: Sounds like you got CPTS.
OKP: WTf is that
Me: Child Participation Trophy Syndrome

Here is his article entitled 'Generation Wuss' in Vanity Fair from three years ago:

http://www.vanityfair.fr/culture/livre/articles/generation-wuss-by-bret-easton-ellis/15837

With all the memes and stuff about cap and gowns at kindergarton graduations and no score-keeping and participation trophies....I feel like this article might be one of the roots of the current trend in this idealogical thread.

cause back in my day athletes took pride and answer I mg that question when cousins would ask if they lettered.


pretty sure you had to play in a certain number of games in order to letter

plenty of athletes didn't have them

Still tho, I have to agree with him. I have HS and college letters and haven't seen them in years. My team photos are much more valuable to me.

but I went to a small school so maybe they have cuts at larger schools for football.

but you are correct. you have to try out and make the team and then you have to actually get playing time.

so nah, it's not the same thing. you don't just walk up, sign up for the team and get a varsity letter at the end. you have to beat out other players just to make the team and then you have to prove you deserve playing time.

I remember seeing scrubs with no letters on their jacket.

out of those 200 everybody on the football team is playing

everybody gets a letter.

Even if they sorry as hell.

out HS football team was bad.... but ain't no way the last 10 dudes on the team were seeing the field.

niggas played both ways and special teams.

neither track nor cross-country had try-outs.

A participation trophy would be a trophy.

i have no problem giving a kid a certificate because he completed a league. Is that semantics? i don't think so.

which is fine, i guess.

lol

When you see a trophy..most people assume 'you won something or were the best at something'

you see a certificate you assume someone completed or passed something.

k.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

For real, it won't turn your kid into a pussy. Some kids get stoked on that. For me, whatever it takes to get young kids off their ass and out running around with their friends is a good thing. If a dumb trophy is a motivation for some dopey 8 year old, who cares? You're just tossing him a token for working hard and playing for a season.

We're talking about really young kids for the most part, too. By Jr. High, literally no one gets a participation trophy. So mostly people are arguing that we need to be bigger dicks to young kids to make them tougher or something? I mean is it really important to teach a dumb 7 year old that there are only winners or losers in this world, and that the only point of sports is winning and losing?

And let's be real, we need to find ways get more kids participating in sports. Focusing on winning and losing at young age is dumb. It's not like your kid is going pro anyway - trust me they won't. You're better off fostering an active and healthy lifestyle.

I also think the argument is being pitted as Pro Trophy vs. Anti Trophy. Most people don't give a shit if their kid gets a trophy, certificate, ribbon, etc. It seems like the Anti-trophy crowd that gets pissed. If my daughter played all season and didn't get a trophy she wouldn't give a fawk, and neither would I. But I also wouldn't be annoyed if she got a trophy for 3rd place.

matter.

*shrug* I tried.

My kid plays AYSO, and it's pretty laid back. They are into building fundamentals and participation. It's super inclusive, but every year you see the stragglers fall off and it gets more competitive. It's a natural progression. I don't see a huge screaming need to accelerate that progression.

Also, once the season is over they take the hella competitive kids and do the elite team/tournament stuff.

LOL

That's 6th and 7th grade?? lol

also like i said, the league my daughter played in was inclusive - like not just for 'future pros' or whatever delusion parents have place on their children. Then the competitive kids go do the more serious soccer, where they focus more on winning and losing.

and while i wouldn't care if 15 yr olds were being given participation trophies that shit doesn't happen AFAIK. unless we count those letters given to kids in high school sports.

anyway, throughout this discussion i've assumed we were talking about kids aged 4 to 8. again, i wouldn't have a problem w/older kids receiving the trophies but i dunno that it happens.

most likely they're gonna be cut from their team at that point though. which is also fine w/me.

instructions?

the answer is probably middle school

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

so no trophies for anyone in a rec league. If you win first place your only trophy should be that your parents hate you a little less for being the best loser.

one more time - this is why God created MULTIPLE YOUTH SPORTS LEAGUES.

some are more competitive than others. and that is totally fine.

i do not agree that *******ALL******* youth sports leagues must be run the same way. there should be (and there are) leagues that offer varying levels of competition. varying levels of intensity. some should create space for the kids who just wanna have fun. others should cut those kids and focus on the ones w/more skill and competitiveness. this is w/o regard for whether there are elimination playoffs and a championship.

losers? Are the kids asking for this structure?

i played in a recreational league w/elimination playoffs. as an adult. it was fine and i had a good time doing it.

Whats fun about telling a kid he can't play because his team lost?

there are no eliminations and everyone gets to play. maybe leagues like that should be available to kids all the way up to age 18. i would have no problem w/that. especially since i know there are other MORE COMPETITIVE leagues available for kids who want that competitiveness and aren't just out there for shits and giggles.

At that point kids can just get together and play on their own or have their parents rent a gym.

But yeah, if its just about fun...they should be aable to play as long as everyone else in the league does. That's only fair.

also there's plenty of opportunity for parents to find elite teams to try out for before then, so if you want your kid to have to make a cut or something there's plenty of chances for that starting at like 7 or 8 years old.

i'm talking about not following basic instructions, paying attention or even trying.

kids can get kicked off rec league teams for being dicks. or the coach can not give them playing time or whatever. Just because a kid gets a participation ribbon doesn't exempt them from discipline and being a normal human being.

sowhat said its just being a kid? I wouldn't call them a dick. I would just say its annoying and makes it difficult for everyone else one or two kids on a team aren't trying or listening

sometimes the kid is being a dick. sometimes they're being a kid.

i'm fine if there are leagues out there that'll cut a kid for not following instructions. i just don't think _ALL_ leagues must be run that way. i don't think any particular kid is necessarily harmed if the league in which they play doesn't kick them out for not following instructions.

me calling them a nuisance?

And even i wouldn't go so far as kicking them out, just extremely limiting their playing time and explaining to their parents why. A kid that ain't even trying won't care tho.

i don't. i am fine if some operate that way and others are more accepting of that behavior.

There just isn't a place for elimination playoffs in those leagues.

I showed up and did my best.

I'm just funning. I was a B+ student in chem

a year..but really only 3-4 months with a regulation sized goal. When our season ended, they had an All-Star game, and for whatever childish reason, I just "KNEW" I was on there, even though I didn't score a single point all year. Only had one FG attempt, which was an airball.

But I cried HAAAAAAAAAAARD when I learned that I didn't make the team. I remember my dad bought me a video game (Arch rivals, ironically) afterwards, and somehow, he got us to have another game which was like a "participation all star game" or something where all the kids were able to play.

Looking back, it was the polar opposite of James Harrison.

That woulda been even better as consolation, right

if you were growing up now you could prolly edit together your own highlight reel on youtube and send it to the coaches like WHY AIN'T YOU PICK ME DO YOU SEE THIS HUSTLE


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/SoXmcNwcZFHjGDXU_QUeRkB8978=/37x0:561x349/730x487/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/46977844/trophy2.0.0.jpg

delusions of grandeur on FLEEEEEEK.

Like who tf else u talking about In here lmao



You little weirdo

you're shaped like jared from subway and wear horace grant goggles.

no one here believes you excelled at anything remotely athletic.

its sad/pathetic that you have to lie so much on a message board.

Really....it doesn't matter even a little bit. LOL at the idea of a kid getting complacent because he got a participation trophy. Kids aren't stupid.

This, and other "issues" like it, is entirely about (1) people of one generation wanting to feel superior to those of another generation, and (2) people wanting to talk about how their parenting is superior to others.

"Back in my day we were tougher, more resilient, smarter, more competitive, etc."

This is about how "other people suck at raising their kids, but I'm the perfect combination of fair, tough, supportive and strict."

Also, Harrison's an idiot, no matter his stance on the burning issue of trophies for 5 year olds.

This is the parenting version of a peacock showing off it's tailfeathers.

It's far easier to *not* do something than to do something, right? It doesn't make logical sense to take the extra step to do something that "doesn't matter even a little bit."


>Really....it doesn't matter even a little bit. LOL at the
>idea of a kid getting complacent because he got a
>participation trophy. Kids aren't stupid.

You know what *really* "doesn't matter even a little bit?" Negative suppositions like these:

>This, and other "issues" like it, is entirely about (1) people
>of one generation wanting to feel superior to those of another
>generation, and (2) people wanting to talk about how their
>parenting is superior to others.
>
>"Back in my day we were tougher, more resilient, smarter, more
>competitive, etc."
>
>This is about how "other people suck at raising their kids,
>but I'm the perfect combination of fair, tough, supportive and
>strict."
>
>Also, Harrison's an idiot, no matter his stance on the burning
>issue of trophies for 5 year olds.

In typical OKP fashion, way to come in and add *nothing* but negativity while trying to be above it all.

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_small/86/868294/2532199-1321628363395.gif

for the record, as a coach, father, former college athlete, blah blah blah, i'm not mad at participation trophies.

we spend as coaches all kinds of time and energy getting kids to buy into teamwork. some actual factuals:

- very few kids WANT to be blockers in football. or rebounders or defenders in bball.

- best rb in the league typically ain't gonna be able to score if he has no blockers

- slickest pg or sg is not going to score nair air point in a game if there are not at least THREE other players who gaf enough to show up to the game to play (you can play 4 on 5).

- for kids that ride the bench, unless they are on a ridiculously deep team, they are gonna be needed for practice. if only so the 'good' players don't get worn out or injured

- a lot of GOOD players sucked when they were younger. giving that 7th grader a participation trophy (and encouragement, despite his not being anywhere near the best on the team), just *may* have fueled his interest to keep playing and practicing to the point that he comes back as a beast his jr and sr year.