https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SCB1t28nDU

and/or have an education or extra job training

and stop having unprotected sex with thugs

>


to me that makes it worse, if she were 15, you could say yeah she was just a kid, but she knew she was just making 7.50 and hour and barely getting by.

Its not that I don't have sympathy for her or think that the minimum wage shouldn't be increased but her main problem is bad life decisions

and not put pile on we all do that but you gotta own up to it and move on because people feeling sorry for you don't pay the rent.

We've got to teach our kids to plan for the future

should not have babies.

babies are the preserve of the better off.

if you're making minimum wage, you should not have kids. simple as that. you cannot afford one. Once you have a better job, or at least meet someone with one, you shouldn't have kids you cannot afford to raise.

being poor does not make one a bad parent
as evidenced by kids who come from poor families who end up contributing significantly to society.
poor people should not be punished for being poor
society should instead be ensuring that we are lifting people out of poverty
by providing a safety net- not punishing little children for their parents fortunes
having a child should not be in the reach of only the middle to upper class
otherwise, id say that is a form of eugenics

however, regardless of child in this scenario
you think it is okay for an adult to earn less than 1200 a month working 40 hours a week?
this is not enough to support oneself
the real argument here is whether minimum wage should actually be a living wage
i have yet to hear arguments as to why it should not be

I understand that shit happens and all...

But if you're struggling to make ends meet by yourself...why would you put a child in that situation???

It's one thing if you have circumstances beyond your control after the child has lived a certain way...it's another thing to bring somebody on this earth and you're not ever able to take care of yourself on this earth...

with cost of living?
and this is primarily the issue?

the issue is not about having a child
even if she didnt have a child and worked 40hrs a week, 1200usd is not enough money to live and sustain on

they have to do with the skills required to perform a job and the worth of those skills in the free market (in general) & to that employer (specifically).


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

so now we have math, reading comprehension, AND economics as your weak points.

The job is flipping burgers/taking orders. The skill level required to do this job is negligible. A 30 minute video and a little training and you're on your own before your first break. These are expendable positions and therefore are low paying because workers can be replaced easily.

The job is CNC Machine operator. The skill level is a bit more, might need some formal training however I've seen ads where they'll train you on the job. Training will take longer before you're allowed to go at it alone and there are safety regulations to learn. Pay for these jobs is higher ranging from $10/hr in some areas to up to $19/hr in others depending on the number of skilled people that can do the job or are willing to train for it.

and it only goes up from here. As the ability to replace a worker becomes more difficult, the wages go up. If there happens to be a glut of that type of worker in a given area, wages go down because you can replace that person fairly quickly.

This happened in IT in the early 2000's. Until folks caught on, even entry level IT jobs could pay between $35K-$40k/year because there wasn't enough people to fill the need or were willing to train to take those jobs. As the decade progressed, people caught wind of these relatively high paying, entry level jobs and began to train for them. Within a few years there was a glut of people leaving boot camp style training with A+ certifications. With so many options, the pay for these jobs dropped. At one point I was seeing helpdesk jobs paying $11-$12/hr, yet requiring certs which would have once landed you a better paying technician job.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

because i actually do know the value of my labour
and the issue with those who are lowly paid, is that they have typically lacked the bargaining power to offset increase in inflation with wages.

>so now we have math, reading comprehension, AND economics as
>your weak points.

stop being simplistic. the economic theory on the marginal cost of labour depends on whether you are a Keynesian or classical economist. it also depends on whether you define wages in real vs nominal terms. there is no one school of thought.

supply and demand is one determination- but wages have been primarily linked to productivity.
this is one reason why the fact that wages have not kept up with increasing productivity in the u.s is problematic for many economists
it implies that there is an increasing inablity of labour to negotiate
(which in turn has consequences in terms of consumption - one of the key drivers of economic growth)

which is also why some economists advocate for increase in minimum wage levels - there is enough evidence that this does not negatively impact the economy, it raises productivity, consumption and is a driver for economic growth.
its not as simple as saying, oh economics


and to be honest, i dont know why you keep bringing up qualifications to this discussion
stop it.
you have no idea where im coming from or my academic background/ qualifications. you are just trying to be petty.
this is not a discussion on what academic accolades on holds

>The job is flipping burgers/taking orders. The skill level
>required to do this job is negligible. A 30 minute video and a
>little training and you're on your own before your first
>break. These are expendable positions and therefore are low
>paying because workers can be replaced easily.

this does not argue against the need to increase wages to keep up with inflation and cost of living.
neither does it argue against the fact that wage stagnation has happened despite rise in profits.

so, again what is your rationale for denying people an living wage?

And since you mentioned economics....I'll correct you in saying that it's supply and demand that determines the level of job wages. Not skill level. Skill level is ONE of the factors in determining 'supply'....the less people who can do it, the less the supply is for that field.

But you could be the only person in the world who's able to juggle chainsaws while riding a unicycle. If there's no demand for that skill.....it's not gonna pay much (if anything).

>with cost of living?
>and this is primarily the issue?
>
>the issue is not about having a child
>even if she didnt have a child and worked 40hrs a week,
>1200usd is not enough money to live and sustain on
>
>

BAM
i'm exiting now
folks be on some shit seriously
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

so she could make 15/hr and be in the same position.

... to care for those children while still working at $7.50/hr.

Look... we all get the same opportunities in life whether you want to believe it or not. What sets any of us apart is what you CHOOSE to do. The majority of the things that happens in life is controlled by a choice you made.

You have the choice to use a condom/pill/etc if you're going to engage in premarital sex.
You have a choice to pay attention in school or not.
you have a choice to go to college/university or take up a trade after high school or sit on your ass.
You have a choice to finish high school or drop out.

Your existence is defined by you and your choices and these days you can make very informed choices in your day-to-day lives.

In this day and age there is simply no excuse to say "I didn't know" when you have access to the answers for nearly all of your questions in your fuckin pocket.

People, even kids, need to start taking responsibility for their lives, and we, as a society, need to start holding people accountable for their shitty decisions.

So, again, by all means have as many kids as you want, that's your choice... And if your choice means those children will grow up impoverished, so be it.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

but you don't actually believe this part in a literal sense, do you?

>Look... we all get the same opportunities in life whether you
>want to believe it or not.

and can't afford to have kids.

I would say most people not born upper class with parents paying for college and a down payment on a house etc....

can't afford to have kids, pay for college, live a decent lifestyle (safe neighborhood not eating rame every night) and save for retirement.

for you 35-45+ year olds it might be different. for millenials on down to people in her age cohort, this is pretty much the situation.


*shrug*

(c) 95% of the youth in my neighborhood

That shit is not that simple. The only reason you can say that is because you actually KNOW better.

Some of these babies don't even have a chance. It's not that fucking simple

D

sad story
still can't really grasp the fact that this happens to multiple generations
she said she didn't want her son to grow up like her
she's probably <30
how did she find her self in this predicament and why didn't her parents position her to do better
and if they failed what makes her think she will magically stop the cycle

And I see what you are saying but *someone* has to be the first to commit to ending the cycle. The first step is stating it, then imagining it, then visualizing it and then doing it. She didn't in her own life but now she can make that effort for the next generation.

...because I've always known a lot of where I am at is because I was born into INTELLECTUAL PRIVILEGE...but I didn't really fully comprehend it until I got to where I'm at.

So peep.

Let's put it at 15 children in the 0-12 range in my immediate vicinity (my building and the ones I can see from my deck).

100% of them speak slang as a primary language in the home.
85-90% of them I've heard verbally berating their children...profane tirades about the smallest things...
80% of those homes are listening to commercial radio and other psychic bullshit that hurts your spirit.

Children walking around in packs....cursing and smoking. Get along great with the corner boys up the block who periodically send them on runs...priming them for their teenaged years.

The adults I see on the regular are either posted by the back alley auto mechanic across the way...begging for change...selling loose cigarettes/oils...or they are servicing customers.

School district boundaries: The elementary and High Schools in my area are rated 1 out of 10 on GreatSchools. The High School is actually in danger of being closed....with both administration and students going thru a hunger strike in protest. The graduation rate last year was 35%. The pregnancy rate was 42%.

The school just rolled out a new MAP test for reading and math. 75% of the results are in. 33% of the students scored average. Less than 1% scored above average.

To get OUT of your district....you've got to get coached up enough to pass entrance exams to the better schools. No one is teaching the community of the game. It took 3 years for me to figure it out.

1st year...Got into the best school in the city but it was 20 miles away....ended up going to a private school for a year.
2nd year....scores weren't high enough to get into the best schools in Math (75th Percentile) even though reading was 90th Percentile....got accepted to the NEIGHBORHOOD Magnet school....soulful as hell. Immediate issues with socialization upon arrival...constant name calling...teacher exasperated...pulled out after the year was over.
3rd year....again didn't score well enough to get into the best schools....but we got lucky and won the lottery for the Magnet school we wanted. Since 1 child got in...I didn't have to do much for the 2nd child other than make sure he was coached up and ready to test.

This from two parents with full command of the English language....relatively stable home lives and a passion for their children. We are the anomaly. And IT TOOK US 3 YEARS AND LUCK TO FIGURE IT OUT!!!!

The best schools in the city that aren't Selective Enrollment (Test based admission)? They are rent controlled. In order to attend...you have to live within a district with a median rent price of 2000-2500/month for a 2 bedroom one bath.

So...no role models...limited resources....no access to education....minimal activities....easy access to intoxicants....

Shorty from my block was having a rough night. I asked her to ride with me to the job just to talk to her and get her mind right.

She had so much anxiety from even GOING downtown.....said people judge her and she can feel it.

"....at least around here...I know what I'm dealing with".

As I said above...it's not that simple

D

Your parents can give you all of the advantages and you can still fuck it all up. This still comes down to personal responsibility. Everybody knows someone that came from a good background that still wound up in prison, multiple kids, on drugs, etc. What excuse do you have for that?

Sending your kids to the best schools in the area doesn't guarantee they'll go to college. Even if they step foot on a college campus that doesn't mean they'll graduate.

Telling your kids to wait for marriage for sex or kids doesn't mean they will do it. Shit, these days it's pretty much a guarantee they'll fuck the first chance they get.

Teaching a kid to stay away from drugs, gangs, or anything else that can fuck up their life doesn't guarantee they won't do it.


The parents can only do so much, it's up to the child to take what the parents have given them and do something with it.
---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

it's like 'poverty porn'.
intended to be viewed by whites on poor tours.

if they really cared, they wouldn't have put all the burden on this young lady.
there's a lot that goes into her situation.

where's the mention of that?

>it's like 'poverty porn'.
>intended to be viewed by whites on poor tours.
>
>if they really cared, they wouldn't have put all the burden on
>this young lady.
>there's a lot that goes into her situation.
>
>where's the mention of that?

I'm not sure, that what all goes in to her situation was their objective.

I think they just wanted to show how tough it is to get by on $7.50 an hour.

Which is a valid point, if you work 40 hours a week you should have some basic level of living

but they could've framed that objective better

it's not her 'fault'

instead on focussing on the fact that 7.50 does not guarantee a living wage
we are here talking about poor people should not be having babies.

okp makes me smh sometimes.

is that she's NOT getting 40hrs/week; she's getting considerably fewer hours if her bi-weekly pay is $260.




---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

so im not even considering how many hours she is *actually* working

and only makes 120 a week.

im asking a general question about an adult making 1200 a month
which is what one would make if they worked 7.50an hour for 40 hours a week and for 4 weeks
its basic simple math.

which is why im raising the issue of a living wage

minimum wage isn't even minimum wage, considering how many people struggle to get 40 hours consistently

so it's even worse than what you're asking

but yes,
the 1200 doesnt include taxes, and whatever else they take out of your check
it also doesnt consider that with a child.... there will be moments when she has to take time off.
and also that with hourly wage- you are not guaranteed time on the clock

but i also wanted to look at a best-case scenario where you are actually making that 40 hrs/week
it doesnt add up to enough money to live an average life
im just surprised that people here seem to think otherwise
and over some foolishness about -well i did it five years ago, and one could work 60 hours a week and....
ugh.
im getting pissed by this post

i really dont get such lack of empathy

7.50/hr * 40hrs = $300
$300 x 52 wks = $15600
15600/yr / 12mo = $1300

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>7.50/hr * 40hrs = $300
>$300 x 52 wks = $15600
>15600/yr / 12mo = $1300
>
>---------------------------
>
>"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the
>peace when we were getting laid out?
>Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances?
>Where is the peace then?
>They don't want to call for peace then.

with taxes its even less than that.

so its not even about having a child.

who are you single people who seem to be okay with making less than 1200 a month
as a grown adult?

wtf

on that video
and my god. that just made my soul heart

these people are heartless, lack any empathy, bigoted and clearly have a narrative that defines the qualities poor people have (in their mind)

geez.


i feel sad for humanity

she's poor
she should be in rags.

>these people are heartless, lack any empathy, bigoted and
>clearly have a narrative that defines the qualities poor
>people have (in their mind)
>
>geez.

if the people making those hateful comments suddenly found themselves victims.

doesn't matter of what.

victims of something.

then I'd laugh at their asses.

I made $7/hr working at a clinic at U of M hospital. I had my own apartment and everything. Apartment was $450/month, nothing special. I paid for basic cable, internet, and phone. Water, heat, and electricity were included in my apartment.

I knew what to buy as far as groceries were concerned. Didn't have a car at the time, so I either walked or took the freight everywhere. The apartment I had would have been in one of those "food desert" zones, but that's meaningless if you're willing to walk or take the bus to get to food.

Even with groceries I still managed to put together a small recording rig, complete with PC, drum machine, keyboard, mixer, and sound modules.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

because thats the question on the table.
this is not about providing anecdotes.
i've certainly lived on less than 1200 a month but i definitely dont
believe that this is acceptable wages for an adult working 40 hours a week.
there should be a minimum standard of living - and this does not meet it.

the average 1 bedroom apartment in this country costs about 700usd
its very hard to find an 'ok' apt for 450.
but to be honest, working 40 hrs a week should guarantee more than just scrapping the bottom barrel
and looking for the cheapest options

>because thats the question on the table.
>this is not about providing anecdotes.
>i've certainly lived on less than 1200 a month but i
>definitely dont
> believe that this is acceptable wages for an adult working 40
>hours a week.

Why not? Serious question here. The problem I see with anecdotes is that they tend to disprove the bullshit. So instead of listening to people who have done it (and more than enough have lived like this to disprove any of what you said), you'd rather spew statistics which don't take into account for things like personal responsibility.


>there should be a minimum standard of living - and this does
>not meet it.

How so??? It's all about living within your means and if your means say you live without stuff like the latest phone and superfluous shit like that, then so be it.

You can't get mad when you walk into a Benz dealership with Fiat money and they tell you that you ain't driving away with a new S Class. If your budget says "you'll be getting a cheap Tracphone/Net10 joint and the $15/month minutes", then that's what you get. If your budget allows you to buy clothes at Walmart and not as Saks or Macy's, then that's where you shop. When you learn to love within your means you learn that a lot of the shit we spend a ton of money on these days simply ain't doing anything except draining your pockets with little to no return on that money.

It's about being smart with your finances. If you don't understand that then you're just as lost as the chick in the video.



>
>the average 1 bedroom apartment in this country costs about
>700usd
>its very hard to find an 'ok' apt for 450.
>but to be honest, working 40 hrs a week should guarantee more
>than just scrapping the bottom barrel
>and looking for the cheapest options

Nothing is or should be guaranteed to you by the number of hours you work. That's an idiotic statement.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>Why not? Serious question here.
>you'd rather spew statistics which don't take into account for
>things like personal responsibility.

i havent actually spewed even one statistic here.
and i could... so i dont know wtf you are talking about here

and i have said that i have lived on less than 12oo- which is why i dont agree that its acceptable.

>How so??? It's all about living within your means and if your
>means say you live without stuff like the latest phone and
>superfluous shit like that, then so be it.

you watched the video and the conclusion is she's not living within her means? you didnt see the struggle to make ends meet?
why? because she has a phone? you dont think people should have phones?
what other essential basic necessities should one do without?
health care? clothes and shoes? a car (because it is a necessity in majority of places- to get to work), recreation? proper nutrition?.

>It's about being smart with your finances. If you don't
>understand that then you're just as lost as the chick in the
>video.

no need to be judgemental here becuase you certainly know nothing about me
and a disagreement in opinion does not equal being lost

the difference here is that i actually think people should afford an average life-style
and yes, i do think that if you work 40 hours a week you should be guaranteed a living wage

the minimum wage has failed to keep up with increases in cost of living - ergo situations like this young lady
i dont suffer because other people start doing better -
i have enough empathy to go around-
enough to even wish that this young woman earns more than 7.50 an hour
i dont feel better just because there's someone else doing worse than i am/
or is doing as badly as i was


>Nothing is or should be guaranteed to you by the number of
>hours you work. That's an idiotic statement.

explain how this is an 'idiotic' statement.
perhaps you dont know what defines a living wage?
because you seem to think we are advocating for luxuries like benzs (and btw, thats the idiotic statement in all this- what the fuck does that comparison have to do with this post? it doesnt even make sense.

the u.k just implemented a living wage- here's how they define it; "a person working forty hours a week, with no additional income, should be able to afford the basics for quality of life, food, utilities, transport, health care, minimal recreation, one course a year to upgrade their education, and childcare."

regardless of the child situation, $7.50 is not a living wage anywhere in the US in 2015. No one is getting $450 rents anymore in any city that anyone wants to live in to be honest. What state were you in also? that's a factor.

If she was childless and making this same wage, she'd be struggling MORE than she is now because she wouldn't qualify for any assistance, benefits, or insurance as a single woman making 1200 a month.

And completely out of touch.

He stays in these post with his unique back in the day experience.

.

the comments on that video and the comments here reflect this.


life happens and lets be honest everybody aint cut out to rise to the top.

And yes, to have a child when you're completely unable to care for that child is a shitty decision unless you're willing to do it while learning SOMETHING that will put you in a better position to care for that child.

I can see struggling for a little while in order to better yourself and create a more comfortable life for you and yours, but to just sit off on minimum wage and not even try to do shit else??? Nah b, that's your shitty decision you gotta live with.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

if that is the conclusion you drew from that video

>if that is the conclusion you drew from that video

and if you can't understand that then you must be a shitty person yourself.

My parents taught me personal responsibility, to own up to your mistakes and not to place the blame on others for your fuck-ups. So when, as an adult, I got a chick pregnant I immediately started looking for a second job even though I was already working 50+ hrs a week making minimum wage ($4.25/hr back then). The girl aborted about a week or two after she told me but I never shied away from it.

When I saw other people I graduated HS with starting their careers at 23 years old and my ass was still shlepping around installing car stereos I never blamed "da man" for not having the opportunity to do better because I had it... I just fucked it up. I screwed up my chance to go back to EMU so I had to do take my ass to community college while everyone else was enjoying a career path they made for themselves. Eventually I took my knack for computers and maneuvered myself into an entry level IT position. I busted my ass and three years later I had already doubled my salary. I busted my ass some more and within a total of 5 years I had nearly tripled the salary I was making in that entry level job.

I had to make a way because I didn't finish college. I had to do it for myself and to take care of my family.

I own my fuck-ups and mistakes in my life. I don't accept it when others make excuses for theirs, and damned sure don't accept it when other people make excuses for someone else.

Own your shit and make it happen for you. Nothing less is acceptable.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

as though im talking about something different.
even in the video- we are presented with a woman who is taking personal responsibility
she's working, and taking care of her child
i present a scenario of an adult working 40 hours a week - that is taking responsiblity of one's situation.
unless you have a different definition you are using?

>and if you can't understand that then you must be a shitty
>person yourself.

lol!

>
>My parents taught me personal responsibility, to own up to
>your mistakes and not to place the blame on others for your
>fuck-ups. So when, as an adult, I got a chick pregnant I
>immediately started looking for a second job even though I was
>already working 50+ hrs a week making minimum wage ($4.25/hr
>back then). The girl aborted about a week or two after she
>told me but I never shied away from it.

i dont know why you keep telling us about your story-
as though you are the only one that had to struggle to get to where they are today
news flash- you are not
i can also sit here all day and wax poetic about how hard life has been and i struggled and made it
the difference here is that because i know what the struggle entails
i dont wish it on others - and i think we asa society can and should do better about this
you on the other hand? seem to think that a single parent should work >=56 hours a week just to make ends meet
because... 'life, suck it up - i did'
thats a crabs in a barrel attitude - im glad i dont think like this.

but... just to reiterate
when people talk about a living wage- they arent talking about a situation
where a person does not want to work - or merely wants a hand-out
or is abdicating responsibility
they are talking about a situation where cost of living has gone up
at twice the rate that the minimum wage has gone up (see? now *that* is a statistic)
making it difficult to make ends meet on 40 hours a week
that is wrong.

but don't have to struggle as this woman does.

THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT.

no one should have to live as she does in THIS country where so many are so 'blessed'. this woman is working...for a disgustingly large corporation that rakes in more money than it can count. yet she's paid peanuts. and the corporation bends rules and laws and morality to avoid paying her a fair wage for her work. i don't think that's okay w/o regard for what choices this woman has made and who's responsible and all of that other bootstrap-bullshit you're spewing.

i'm quite sure if she were interviewed about all of her mistakes this woman could run down a list of the choices she made that resulted in working @ McD's and raising a child on her own. so in the fuck what? the point is those choices shouldn't result in her scraping by as she is. or, at least a number of us feel that way. and we want to see McD's and other similar entities pay their employees at a rate that won't have them living the struggle life this woman lives.

>but don't have to struggle as this woman does.
>
>THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT.

It IS the fucking point. The point is there's a way if there's a will to go do it.

If you paid attention to the video, this chick ain't working full time. That means she has plenty of time to seek out a more stable job paying better instead of sittin off doing whatever the hell she's doing all day that ain't helping to get money in the crib. She's been working at McD's for a fuckin year scraping by, at some point your brain should have kicked in and said "Hey... MAYBE you should find better work... Maybe sign up with Manpower or something to see if you can get a little office job or some shit... Maybe go to work for Chick Fil A,I hear they pay better..."


>no one should have to live as she does in THIS country where
>so many are so 'blessed'. this woman is working...for a
>disgustingly large corporation that rakes in more money than
>it can count. yet she's paid peanuts. and the corporation
>bends rules and laws and morality to avoid paying her a fair
>wage for her work. i don't think that's okay w/o regard for
>what choices this woman has made and who's responsible and all
>of that other bootstrap-bullshit you're spewing.

You still on that "she's working" shit... She's got a PART TIME job, not a full time job and, yes, it DOES matter. It's different if the chick in the story was pulling down 40 a week, but that ain't the case here by any stretch of the imagination. It's pretty fucking RARE for any McDonalds to put anyone on the schedule for 40 hours (I'm a two time McD's employee) so going there thinking you're gonna be stable is plain stupidity.

The people that hate bootstrap are entitled ass niggas that simply want everything handed to them. Look around bruh... Everything you see was built by a bootstrap mentality... Even the music you listen to. House and Techno was built on bootstrapping, hip hop was built on bootstrapping, punk and metal was built on bootstrapping.

The Mac and iPhone you use to post on this very message board were built by a company started by two dudes in a garage.

For basic survival, EVERYONE should have this mentality. The ability to pull shit together to make something better for themselves instead of being complacent and accepting whatever comes along is vital in this world. I'm not saying everyone should aspire to be the next Steve Wozniak or some shit, but just strive harder to make a better life for yourself.

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters..." - Fredrick Douglass.

Applying Fredrick Douglass' quote to this situation: You want a comfortable life but don't want to work for it. You want it handed to you while others work hard to get there. No one simply "deserves" shit in the world except for a roof over their head, clothes on their back, and food and the government already can provide that shit via welfare. Anything else you have to go out and get yourself. If you have the skills, you get better pay. If you're simply content with flipping burgers, minimum wage awaits.

>i'm quite sure if she were interviewed about all of her
>mistakes this woman could run down a list of the choices she
>made that resulted in working @ McD's and raising a child on
>her own. so in the fuck what? the point is those choices
>shouldn't result in her scraping by as she is.

Why not Mr Lawyer??? Of ALL the people on this board you should be painfully aware of how a persons past actions can have devastating consequences. If we're just going to ignore piss poor decisions a person has made then let's apply it universally so that the person that got locked up for robbing a bank can now apply to be the manager of that very bank he tried to rob 'cause, you know, piss poor decisions no longer mean anything.

My wife had a child at 21 years old. Instead of making excuses for shit she made a way. The father was barely doing anything for his daughter, so it was up to her to handle it. She had ZERO job skills outside of working at Sears and working the night watch desk in the dorms (which is where we met), but when this child came along she got her ass up and got a 40hr/week job working at a community college (which she also attended). She was on section 8, food stamps, and getting daycare assistance just like this chick in the video but there's a difference: My wife went to school AND pulled 40 a week with a child. Was it a struggle? Hell yeah, but she managed.



>or, at least a
>number of us feel that way. and we want to see McD's and
>other similar entities pay their employees at a rate that
>won't have them living the struggle life this woman lives.

I have advocated on here for raising the minimum wage to $10-$11/hr. I think that's realistic (and so do a number of economists) and would give minimum wage workers a considerable boost.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

even if this woman worked 40 hours a week she still would not make enough money to scrap by
and that is the point
all the other shit is you projecting your life story
again- you sob story is not interesting, neither is it unique
and it is certainly not applicable in this situation
you dont even seem to consider that this woman is raising a child?
she should never spend time with her child because she is hustling?

what kind of lack of common decency is this?
im over here advocating for a labour system that allows labourers to be able to pull themselves up by their efforts (hello bootstrap)
and you want to shit on people because they made 'mistakes'

come on.

>even if this woman worked 40 hours a week she still would not
>make enough money to scrap by
>and that is the point
>all the other shit is you projecting your life story
>again- you sob story is not interesting, neither is it unique
>and it is certainly not applicable in this situation
>you dont even seem to consider that this woman is raising a
>child?
>she should never spend time with her child because she is
>hustling?

You missed the part about my WIFE. I've known her since I was 18, a freshman in college. That's where we met. She got pregnant when she was 21 and had a little girl (initially my goddaughter, now my daughter). What she did was the same thing that many women across this country time and time again have done:

She found a way and made it happen for her and her child instead of sittin off having a fuckin pity party regardless of race or background.

Most single mothers I've met were bustin their asses to make sure their child had a roof over their head and food on the table whether there was help from the child's father or not. They where not complacent with a part time job, nope, they went out and got full time work. If the hours got shaky, the found a different job. This is why a lot of the single mothers I dated didn't amount to a lot because between work and caring for their child there wasn't a lot of extra time.

>
>what kind of lack of common decency is this?
>im over here advocating for a labour system that allows
>labourers to be able to pull themselves up by their efforts
>(hello bootstrap)

That's not what you're advocating at all.

>and you want to shit on people because they made 'mistakes'
>
>come on.

point that out in any of my posts. I'll wait.

If you're unwilling to work harder to overcome your mistakes then don't expect to have much. I've had to do it, my wife had to do it, my own MOTHER had to do it (she had me at 19 in the 70's, a time when there were near zero resources for single parents), I have cousins that had to do it, friends that had to do it... what makes this chick any different than those around her, those before her, and those after her that not resting on their laurels are making shit happen with kids in tow?

If you can explain that I'm willing to listen and consider it, but when I look around and I see people all over the place from my neighborhood to Detroit, to anywhere USA that are not sittin off at a part time job tellin sad stories about how they can't make it it's hard to fathom any single reasonable explanation.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

> So math AND reading comprehension are not your strong suits...

But please, do you have that explanation ready?

'cause you and other folks like you can't seem to quantify the shit you're talking outside of emotional kumbaya "We Are The World" shit.

Millions of people have done it like me, my mother, my wife, my grandmothers, likely a lot of people in your family and maybe even yourself though you'd be completely unwilling to admit it.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

Thankfully you're not in position to impact the lives of ppl like the woman in the video. Bc you're appalling.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

the the bottom line is that she had opportunities to have a different, better life but made the wrong decisions (not studying in school, getting pregnant before being ready to financially care for a child)

Yes, those decisions were probably a result of her environment. (I probably would be in the same or similar boat if I came up like her.)

Should companies pay more? of course, but that ain't the reality right now and I doubt a McDonald's job will ever pay enough for a young single mother to not struggle.

This is why we should emphasize personal responsibility. My parents came up poorer and with fewer opportunities than her, but they had a better environment that encouraged them to get an education and not have kids until married.

We've got to go back to those sort of values and emphasizing personal responsibility, if you really care about helping

Because nobody cares about you and even if they do, that and a quarter won't get you a coke.

that is the USA.

You will always need an exploited, enslaved, or underemployed group of people to parasite off of in this system.

>that is the USA.
>
>You will always need an exploited, enslaved, or underemployed
>group of people to parasite off of in this system.
>
>


that's the WORLD, just the way it is, they way its always been

but you do have more opportunity in the US than in most places (past and present) if you are educated on how it works

but people can make it worse by their behavior

>but you do have more opportunity in the US than in most places
>(past and present) if you are educated on how it works

most developed countries in the world dont use the education system to punish poor kids for being poor like the u.s does
im not sure where you live where education is fair and equal and so its all about 'working hard'
the school system is set up to ensure that kids from poor neighbourhoods do not have an opportunity to improve or even attend college

this is not the case in the majority of developed countries
which do far much more to ensure that (public) education is standardized, and has an element of fairness, regardless of income

>>but you do have more opportunity in the US than in most
>places
>>(past and present) if you are educated on how it works
>
>most developed countries in the world dont use the education
>system to punish poor kids for being poor like the u.s does
>im not sure where you live where education is fair and equal
>and so its all about 'working hard'
>the school system is set up to ensure that kids from poor
>neighbourhoods do not have an opportunity to improve or even
>attend college
>
>this is not the case in the majority of developed countries
>which do far much more to ensure that (public) education is
>standardized, and has an element of fairness, regardless of
>income
>

I said most places not all (that's why so many people are trying to get in)

never said anything was fair and equal just said the opportunity is there, just unfortunately people don't realize it because they pay too much attention to the entertainment gods.

most of those developed countries have a more homogenized population, let a bunch of foreigners (dark skinned people) come in and see how fair they are with them

>I said most places not all (that's why so many people are
>trying to get in)

that's the standard by which you value american progress?
with the third world?
because the 'most places' you are talking about are developing countries.


>never said anything was fair and equal just said the
>opportunity is there, just unfortunately people don't realize
>it because they pay too much attention to the entertainment
>gods.

you really think the education system provides equal opportunity to all?

>most of those developed countries have a more homogenized
>population, let a bunch of foreigners (dark skinned people)
>come in and see how fair they are with them

they are getting their fair share of dark skinned people, btw
and have been for a while
and yes, the people might be getting more blatantly bigoted
it has not translated to a parallel, less superior education system
for the darker folks, as government policy
in america- the poor essentially are relegated to a parralel, far less superior system of education
so i dont know which america you live in where this is not the case

but really? the question i now have is that we are okay with america holding herself to a standard that says
- hey we are not as bad as the developing world, or we are not like *that* racist country?
that's how america defines itself?
whatever happened to american exceptionalism?

>>I said most places not all (that's why so many people are
>>trying to get in)
>
>that's the standard by which you value american progress?
>with the third world?
>because the 'most places' you are talking about are developing
>countries.
>
>
>>never said anything was fair and equal just said the
>>opportunity is there, just unfortunately people don't
>realize
>>it because they pay too much attention to the entertainment
>>gods.
>
>you really think the education system provides equal
>opportunity to all?
>
>>most of those developed countries have a more homogenized
>>population, let a bunch of foreigners (dark skinned people)
>>come in and see how fair they are with them
>
>they are getting their fair share of dark skinned people, btw
>
>and have been for a while
>and yes, the people might be getting more blatantly bigoted
>it has not translated to a parallel, less superior education
>system
>for the darker folks, as government policy
>in america- the poor essentially are relegated to a parralel,
>far less superior system of education
>so i dont know which america you live in where this is not the
>case
>
>but really? the question i now have is that we are okay with
>america holding herself to a standard that says
>- hey we are not as bad as the developing world, or we are not
>like *that* racist country?
>that's how america defines itself?
>whatever happened to american exceptionalism?

Never said anything was equal and no I wasn't comparing just to developing countries just giving perspective

And if the countries provide more social benefits , ithan in the u.s. It's because they are rich in part do to a history of pimping countries with dark skin populations, and it's mostly just to their own people, so I do t put them on a pedestal

I just think we need to push personal responsibility because as long as you just wait on your oppressor to change you will stay down

Not that you shouldn't push for change but depend more on self reliance if you want things to get better because I don't expect white people to change

I just don't like the victim mentality because I think it breeds dependency.

respect since day 1.

Roughly 5 years ago or so I was one of the single people Akon referred to as "seemingly okay with making less than 1200 a month".

It can be done and there are countless people surviving on half that figure. Is it an ideal circumstance? Not for most, but it's doable.

I don't think the privilege of having children is only for the wealthy, but there's far too few people who actually view it as that - a privilege.

ppl complained about the stuff she has and as i watched, i realized she ain't have shit. like she lives in subsidized housing with her sister and has no furniture. so what she has a phone (it didn't look like an iphone 6, maybe a 4 or a 5).

im not a fan of poverty-porn
where people have to be shown destitute for anyone to have empathy for them
this is essentially what those comments are articulating.
as though poverty must come with a loss of dignity
even poor people want nice things

plus I was "listening" to the video and reading the comments, not actually watching the video so that was my fault.

i do believe ppl will not feel sorry for her because they believe she has more than what she should have AND/OR more than what they do have...i didn't see these car keys ppl were talking about or these fancy Jordans (which could have been a gift)...

i hate the thinking that jobs at McDonalds are for teenagers to have extra money because the reality is there aren't enough jobs out there for everyone and/or because of circumstances, everyone may not have the skill set to do other jobs...and/or maybe some ppl like Mcdonalds and want to work there, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get paid better. everyone deserves a living wage that is appropriate for where they live.

*and i still stand by my hustler comment because ppl complained about her weave but she could have hook up and be doing it herself. like...no where in that video did it seem like she was just throwign away money on dumb shit.

it has little to do with what she actually has
she could have been show destitute
and they would've been all, 'well that fat bitch needs to get off her ass and get a better job'

bringing up material things was just so they could justify they hate they have for poor black women, and single parents

does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

in the developing and developed world
like america is bottom ten when it comes to labour issues

no paid maternity leave
and eeven the unpaid leave is among the shortest period worldwide (8 weeks? smh)
no paid annual leave
minimum wage that rises far less than cost of living
(which there is no maximum rate)
no guaranteed child care- or early chid development programs

its because people dont care for self-interest.

smh

and the philosophy from where that goes waaaay back.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/slavery/ethics/philosophers_1.shtml


Despite the nonsense going on in the world the ancients (not them greek dudes) has solutions to these problems before they even came up.

don't realize they are a few bad decisions/accidents away from the same predicament.

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

.

i barely call people names
but this post has me thinking how horrrible and miserable
some of these people must be
like really shitty individuals

because they suffered- everyone else must suffer too.

shit+

some of these "opinions" really piss me off...

i can't even read this post...i gotta skim it...

but the broke-ass lives they lived leading up to that? nobody really cares.

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

I also believe that the choices she made in life is the reason why she is suffering. Her child's father needs to be held accountable for his choices and action as well. He needs to provide child support.

One thing this young lady has in her favor is that she is still young. She can go to college or a vocational/trade college. She can apply for scholarships and grants. She can apply for other jobs. maybe even join the military.

I understand some people have a hard time assigning personal responsibility and accountability to those who are less fortunate, but at the end of the day, those who are less fortunate ad young still has a chance to turn their lives around and make a better future for themselves. I just hope that she decides to hussle and do better for herself as well as her child.

>I also believe that the choices she made in life is the
>reason why she is suffering. Her child's father needs to be
>held accountable for his choices and action as well. He needs
>to provide child support.

yes. the father providing child a few dollars per month will lift that young woman and her child out of poverty. as every father who provides child support is able to lift the family from poverty.

further, it's gotta be HER fault that the father isn't providing the support. it's not on him at all.

>One thing this young lady has in her favor is that she is
>still young. She can go to college or a vocational/trade
>college. She can apply for scholarships and grants. She can
>apply for other jobs. maybe even join the military.

my god i bet that never occurred to her! that she can just APPLY for another job other than the one at McD's! FUCKING 'DUH!!' you should email this to her immediately. this is the solution. APPLY FOR ANOTHER JOB. brilliant!!!!

>I understand some people have a hard time assigning personal
>responsibility and accountability to those who are less
>fortunate, but at the end of the day, those who are less
>fortunate ad young still has a chance to turn their lives
>around and make a better future for themselves. I just hope
>that she decides to hussle and do better for herself as well
>as her child.

yes, she needs to hussle. that's the answer! get child support. apply for another job. hussle! i bet she hasn't thought of any of that.

you should get on TV and spread this brilliance for the world to hear. there are billions of ppl living in poverty who need this solution. don't hold this from them!!!

>>I also believe that the choices she made in life is the
>>reason why she is suffering. Her child's father needs to be
>>held accountable for his choices and action as well. He
>needs
>>to provide child support.
>
>yes. the father providing child a few dollars per month will
>lift that young woman and her child out of poverty. as every
>father who provides child support is able to lift the family
>from poverty.


>further, it's gotta be HER fault that the father isn't
>providing the support. it's not on him at all.
>
>>One thing this young lady has in her favor is that she is
>>still young. She can go to college or a vocational/trade
>>college. She can apply for scholarships and grants. She can
>>apply for other jobs. maybe even join the military.
>
>my god i bet that never occurred to her! that she can just
>APPLY for another job other than the one at McD's! FUCKING
>'DUH!!' you should email this to her immediately. this is
>the solution. APPLY FOR ANOTHER JOB. brilliant!!!!
>
>>I understand some people have a hard time assigning personal
>>responsibility and accountability to those who are less
>>fortunate, but at the end of the day, those who are less
>>fortunate ad young still has a chance to turn their lives
>>around and make a better future for themselves. I just hope
>>that she decides to hussle and do better for herself as well
>>as her child.
>
>yes, she needs to hussle. that's the answer! get child
>support. apply for another job. hussle! i bet she hasn't
>thought of any of that.
>
>you should get on TV and spread this brilliance for the world
>to hear. there are billions of ppl living in poverty who need
>this solution. don't hold this from them!!!

I don't have to do anything for this young lady. But, she can do for herself. It is possible. I never said that child support will lift her out of poverty. But, it will help provide some relief from the suffering that she is enduring.

Yes, I believe that she made some bad decisions in her young life, but I do not believe that she has to stay in her current situation. I understand that she is in a difficult bind, but she still has a chance to become successful. I believe there are resources out there that can help her get out of her situation, but it may take some time.

I have some family members in her situation. I actually have a family member that is in a worse situation than her. I hope she get the help she needs as well as make better choices for herself and child.

>I don't have to do anything for this young lady.

you sure don't! she is not your responsibility. and you have a profound understanding of responsibility as evidenced by your initial reply.

But, she can
>do for herself. It is possible. I never said that child
>support will lift her out of poverty. But, it will help
>provide some relief from the suffering that she is enduring.

yup. child support from the father is the answer. it will provide 'some relief' which is better than none!

>Yes, I believe that she made some bad decisions in her young
>life, but I do not believe that she has to stay in her current
>situation.

right. the American Dream and all of that. she can pull herself up by her bootstraps! this is the land of opportunity, after all. and those aren't meaningless platitudes and empty phrases.

I understand that she is in a difficult bind, but
>she still has a chance to become successful. I believe there
>are resources out there that can help her get out of her
>situation, but it may take some time.

yes. resources like child support and job applications. sho nuff.

> I have some family members in her situation. I actually have
>a family member that is in a worse situation than her.

that must be why you have such a nuanced understanding of the situation.

I hope
>she get the help she needs as well as make better choices for
>herself and child.

yes that's the ticket. she needs to make better choices.

you should run for office, man.

>
>>I don't have to do anything for this young lady.
>
>you sure don't! she is not your responsibility. and you have
>a profound understanding of responsibility as evidenced by
>your initial reply.
>
>But, she can
>>do for herself. It is possible. I never said that child
>>support will lift her out of poverty. But, it will help
>>provide some relief from the suffering that she is enduring.
>
>
>yup. child support from the father is the answer. it will
>provide 'some relief' which is better than none!
>
>>Yes, I believe that she made some bad decisions in her young
>>life, but I do not believe that she has to stay in her
>current
>>situation.
>
>right. the American Dream and all of that. she can pull
>herself up by her bootstraps! this is the land of
>opportunity, after all. and those aren't meaningless
>platitudes and empty phrases.
>
> I understand that she is in a difficult bind, but
>>she still has a chance to become successful. I believe
>there
>>are resources out there that can help her get out of her
>>situation, but it may take some time.
>
>yes. resources like child support and job applications. sho
>nuff.
>
>> I have some family members in her situation. I actually
>have
>>a family member that is in a worse situation than her.
>
>that must be why you have such a nuanced understanding of the
>situation.
>
> I hope
>>she get the help she needs as well as make better choices
>for
>>herself and child.
>
>yes that's the ticket. she needs to make better choices.
>
>you should run for office, man.
>

I see you are on your usual, but it is all good. Btw, no need to run for office. I am not interested. I am sure you have a better solution for her, so perhaps you should take your own advice and help the young lady out.

i agree w/her and others - McD's can afford to pay her an actual living wage and should do so. the point of this video is to increase public awareness of the low-wage problem so as to create public pressure on legislators for an increase in the mandatory minimum wage.

Still not enough to pay all of her bills
Rent
Child care
Food

And your math is just as terrible as Akon's

$15/hr x 40/wk = $600 wk
$600/wk x 52 weeks = $31200/yr
$31200/yr ÷ 12mo = $2600/mo

So... Let's break that down, shall we?

at 40 hours a week a worker will gross $600 a week:

Gross Pay $600.00
Federal Income Tax $-4.94
Social Security Tax $37.20
Medicare Tax $8.70
State Income Tax $18.42
City Income Tax $23.54
Deductions (healthcare) $23.08


Final Pay Check $494.00


(I used $100/month for healthcare costs via ACA and 7 deductions since she has a child (1), single(1+1 for no one else claiming you), head of household(1), over $2000 in childcare expenses (1), and will take child credit(2))

Now let's budget. For the sake of simplicity, I'll use an incorrect assumption that every month has only 4 weeks.

- In Philly, a 2 bedroom apartment can be had for $700 a month.
- Food bill for an adult and toddler can be safely had at $75-$80/week
- Utilities including a land line phone we'll figure at around $125/month
- basic internet is $30/month from Verizon out in Philly (I would have gone with RCN, but the price I saw was promotional for 1 year)

Right now we're at $1155 in monthly expenses

If you're smart, you divide each expense by 4 and set that money aside so you can pay each bill as they come up, so her expenses will eat up about $289 out of every paycheck

$494/wk - $289 = $205 week.

This does not take into account for daycare, and I intentionally left that off because she's getting assistance for that and at $31200 she is making $180 a year too much to get assistance (the cutoff for a family of 2 is $31020/year as of 2013 and I can't find anything more up to date). Assuming the numbers are adjusted periodically she may ultimately qualify, and if she does that works in her favor.

I also didn't take into account for transportation. A SEPTA pass runs $21/week, so figure that into her weekly expenses dropping her weekly cash in hand to $184. That cash in hand can be used to buy clothes ans assorted other things.

If she can still get assistance for childcare then $15/hr at 40hrs/week is enough for a family of 2 in Philly and with apartments being considerably cheaper in many other cities across the country the situation would be even better elsewhere.

Also, 4 paychecks a month is only 48 checks and there are 52 weeks a year, this means there's an extra $1976 per year unaccounted for. This money can be used for pretty much anything, including the purchase of an a-to-b car, which will alter the finances 'cause then you have to take into account for insurance (basic liability only), repairs, and gas.

It's doable. Only daycare can stop that.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

I doubt they would even give her a full 40 hrs with her current wage. I believe she has alternatives. I understand her situation is difficult, but she has youth on her side. She can live a better life, if she wants.

> She can
>live a better life, if she wants.

she decided, nope- i would much rather live check to check

i hadnt realized there were options on the table

>> She can
>>live a better life, if she wants.
>
>she decided, nope- i would much rather live check to check
>
>i hadnt realized there were options on the table

Why do you think she doesn't has options? Also, do you have choices? Or is it only reserved for rich people?

how can he be accountable? What money can he send to the mother of his child and his child? we have no clue the situation that landed him in jail so i don't want to make assumptions but we can recognize, he is in no position to help so basically all she got is herself to depend on.

The fact is when you are already behind the curve, it's harder to get over that hump to make life better. situations arise...things happen...it seems like she's trying to make the best by working, trying to get all of the assistance she can to make it better for her son...she states all of this in the video.

but get another job...join the military...*rolls eyes* the military will take her from her child, and obviously if she had someone who can keep her child while in the military, they could keep her child while she worked to help her save money. that's not an option. another job? it's ppl with degrees that can't find jobs..."unskilled" labor work force is just as bad.

where do yall get this misinformation from?

her being away from her child depends highly on branch/ job/ type of enlistment

even if it DID take her away from her child
its better than her current situation

>even if it DID take her away from her child
>its better than her current situation


seriously?
its better for the military to take her child?

who are you people?

extensive travel
paid childcare
paid healthcare
401K/ TSP
career
etc.

ole
OH NOEZ!! ILL BE AWAY FROM MY BABY asses

FOH man

considering the hours you put in.
not to mention there's the war factor.
if she were to get deployed, who would watch her kid then?

is it or is it not a fact that joining the military, even if it's reserves, involves going to basic training? aren't most boot camps out of state and require the participant to stay on the military base? pray tell, where is her child suppose to be while she's in basic training?

6 gatdamn weeks!

we're talking about the difference between facing POVERTY
are reaching an at peace solution for your financial woes AND living condition

but oh no, 6 fonky ass weeks are actually a viable obstacle for the sympathizers


facing poverty?
you better find someone
ANYONE
you got family somewhere

for a few hours while she works or tries to better herself, then who is going to watch her child for the 6 weeks she's gone? the father is already done, so the mother should be gone too? Now the child, who is fairly young, is without both parents for an extended amount of time. yes that's my criticism of that option because it's not viable.

and what if she gets transferred or has to take a job that isn't 9-5?
in my opinion it's challenging to be a single parent while in the military without some sort of support system. hell it's hard just being married with a kid. you need a support system.

>how can he be accountable? What money can he send to the
>mother of his child and his child? we have no clue the
>situation that landed him in jail so i don't want to make
>assumptions but we can recognize, he is in no position to help
>so basically all she got is herself to depend on.
>
>The fact is when you are already behind the curve, it's harder
>to get over that hump to make life better. situations
>arise...things happen...it seems like she's trying to make the
>best by working, trying to get all of the assistance she can
>to make it better for her son...she states all of this in the
>video.
>
>but get another job...join the military...*rolls eyes* the
>military will take her from her child, and obviously if she
>had someone who can keep her child while in the military, they
>could keep her child while she worked to help her save money.
>that's not an option. another job? it's ppl with degrees that
>can't find jobs..."unskilled" labor work force is just as bad.
>

Are you saying that the father being in jail absolves him from responsibility? Sure, he can't provide for his child while incarcerated, but assuming he isn't doing all day, once he gets out, he needs to handle his business and provide for his child.

As for her being behind the curve, yes, she has obstacles, but I don't believe her situation is without alternatives. She certainly isn't the only person living in poverty. However, she can turn her situation around and provide a better life for her child. I never will advocate that life is easy nor will I say that her situation is easy, but I wil not believe that she doesn't have options.

Regarding the military, I just pointed ou that it is an option, not the best option. She can go to job corps or take up some sort of vocation in order to sustain herself, then attend college. As for getting another job..why not? Are you suggesting that getting another job isn't an option? If so, then we will agree to disagree.

Lastly, we can agree that we know little about her situation to know exactly what support system she has available, but I am not someone who throws pity parties for people who I feel has options and alternatives. The reality is that she has a child to feed, clothe and shelter. That is a fact. How she does it is on her. She is young, so she still has a chance to improve her overall living situation.

>Are you saying that the father being in jail absolves him from
>responsibility? Sure, he can't provide for his child while
>incarcerated, but assuming he isn't doing all day, once he
>gets out, he needs to handle his business and provide for his
>child.

No it doesn't absolve but YOU asked about the father and so I'm saying expecting him to help in her current situation is ridiculous because he can't...so we can't even factor him in. He's a non-factor on how to better herself or her situation because he can't provide now.

>As for her being behind the curve, yes, she has obstacles, but
>I don't believe her situation is without alternatives. She
>certainly isn't the only person living in poverty. However,
>she can turn her situation around and provide a better life
>for her child. I never will advocate that life is easy nor
>will I say that her situation is easy, but I wil not believe
>that she doesn't have options.

How do you know she's not utilizing her current options, in hopes that more options open up. You're speaking from privilege. She is behind the curve and fighting to get ahead, so she is doing the best she can with what has been provided to her.

>Regarding the military, I just pointed ou that it is an
>option, not the best option. She can go to job corps or take
>up some sort of vocation in order to sustain herself, then
>attend college. As for getting another job..why not? Are you
>suggesting that getting another job isn't an option? If so,
>then we will agree to disagree.

Job Corps might actually be a viable option for her depending on where she lives but in NO WAY do I think she shouldn't get another job. If she can, she should. My statement was that finding a job is hard, for everyone...obviously she had looked for a job, that's how she got the one at McDonalds but I'm sure she wouldn't have accepted that if she had other better options (in regards to pay or time or benefits). Saying you can just find another job is silly because you are acting under the premise that there are jobs laying around everywhere in the US when we all know that's not true.

>Lastcly, we can agree that we know little about her situation
>to know exactly what support system she has available, but I
>am not someone who throws pity parties for people who I feel
>has options and alternatives. The reality is that she has a
>child to feed, clothe and shelter. That is a fact. How she
>does it is on her. She is young, so she still has a chance to
>improve her overall living situation.

I agree she can improve her living situation, but what I don't agree with is just dismissing the fact that large corporations do not pay their employees a living wage. If she made a decent living wage (no one is saying she should be paid $60K a year although that's what some McDonalds managers make), she could probably afford to save a little money and then she'd have more options. I think she's doing the best she can, and people should recognize that it's not easy. But to say "yeah but you can do more" is an insult to those who are going through avenue they can...she's expressing that, she wants better, she is looking for better...why is that a hard concept for people to grasp.

when i say poor, i'm talking about 3 or 4 generations of poverty. like a 16 year old single mother that has a grandmother that is alive and on welfare.

their struggle is profound...


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

all three aunts had kids in high school and struggled

STILL struggle in their almost 50's

the youngest aunt had a child at 13
then her child had one at 16
thats 3 generations

the (now) 20 year old with the 4 year old daughter is lazy as lazy can get
sells her plasma to pay her cell phone bill and get her hair done
is pretty much homeless
and has a very smart mouth on her

and guess what?
i still dont give a fuck.

their choice
their beds
LAY in that motherfucker for all i care

i dont know why yall think personally knowing these people would change minds

when i was younger i knew a chick whose mom didn't work and had a bf living with her, who also didn't work
their rent was $50 a month
dude was probably in his 50s and had 20+ kids, none of which he was paying child support on
i think the mom and bf were both on some kind of ssi or something
some of these ppl are trifling and have no intention or motivation to improve their lives

on the flip side my friends lil brother is in his early 20s
went to a small liberal college in New england for some liberal arts type shit
and now works for a popular urban store in NYC....for damn near minimum wage
THOSE type of poor ppl i feel for
these trifling hood rat types who make continuous bad decisions?
nah

But you feel sorry for him. I see. Plain and simple, wages need to b higher, regardless of how you feel about poor people's life choices.

so i'd tend to agree that he made a bad investment
difference is he was actively trying to improve himself and the circumstances of the current job market fucked him over
he's still childless, college educated, and an okayplayerary creative
this temporary financial hurdle in his life is not a death sentence

Shouldn't earn enough to pay for rent, utilities, food and healthcare, you're a bad human being. Accept this truth about yourself.

I understand that shit happens but there's too much free contraception out here for oopsie babies. As for the rest of her situation, I can definitely sympathize with her, it's hard out here for lots of people to find decent paying jobs regardless of education level so that's not really her fault, but some stuff you can accept personal responsibility for and avoid.....like children.

The children

i see/hear both sides of the argument... but what is a viable answer?

i don't feel like throwing money at the issue is the answer
i think skill/trade training is a big part of what's missing...

ie you start a job you work make a wage and you learn a new set of skills while working that job... that can prepare you for the future as well not just right now

If everyone in the country went out and learned a trade or got a degree, the majority of jobs would still be in the service industry. THOSE jobs need to pay more.

will that not raise the cost of living?
and we are back to the same issue no?

i'm not saying raising the wage is wrong I'm just trying to understand how that affects everyone else... bc if the wage goes up the prices go up... so when i hit up these spots I want 15/hr worth of service delivered... i doubt that happens.

>will that not raise the cost of living?


fact is cost of living has been going up,
productivity is up
profits being made by companies are up
managers and executives pay - has grown exponentially
the only thing that has remained static/ wages for the middle to lower class
this is why people cant manage- and its becuase everyone votes against raising minimum wage *smh*
they should raise it to a living wage- and tie it to annual cost of living increase

and again i'm playing devils advocate here not out and out saying you are wrong...

my issue starts to be in where is the cut off... so if i was/am making 15/ hr right now and i'm not balling out of control but why don't i get an 8/ hr raise? or i make 25/ hr why not 33

and again are we going to get more output for raise in price...
if I told you that burger is now 8 bucks instead of 3-5 bucks will you not expect more since you pay more?

is not socialist

its what one does when they negotiate pay
and its what is supposed to happen when you get an annual pay rise.
its a cost of living adjustment

or other government programs.

her working a job and getting paid a living wage would be the opposite of socialism.

wages have remained the same...this is going to continue because corporations can get away with low wages and due to high population counts, ppl will fight for these low paying jobs. There is no incentive to a company to pay ppl more if someone is willing to work for low wages.

I am not saying everyone should get $15 an hour...but whatever the living wage is for that area is what ppl should get paid. That may be $10/in the midwest and $15 in nyc and $9 in Texas.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

the only solution they'll entertain is one where the people they feel so sorry for wont have to lift a finger, and whatever it is that they feel should be given to them will be placed at their feet

least start in the neighborhood?

i remember i got clowned on here for suggesting that poor black kids need to try their best even if the schools are shitty
and suggesting that kids go to places with free wifi (starbucks) to do book reports off their mobile devices etc
ppl clowned but i didn't get a desktop at home until 98/99
before that i was literally going to the public library to do research and typing papers out on a word processor/type writer
both my parents are college educated but honestly they weren't even "pushing" me academically
you have to have that desire to do better within yourself

i get it
the cards are stacked against them/us

but you can either spend time talking about it and analyzing it
or
you can seek solutions to the situation you're in right now

because "I did it" is only an anecdote.

these people don't like the bootstraps argument because it says that you're in control of your life.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

we all agree that white folks have historically destroyed civilizations and cultures across the globe.

raped, pillaged, cheated, stole, murdered swindled and lied their way to the top

yet we expect those same raping, pillaging, cheating, thieves that murdered, swindled, and lied their way to the top to one day * TING* get it, and make everything right

shit makes no fucking sense

NO FUCKING SENSE

the sooner we stop worrying about them
focus on us
and do what the fuck WE doing
the better off we'll be

im so tired of niggas putting so much focus and energy into discussing and analyzing how they cheating and what they're doing now to hold us back

.....fuck them man

its funny how the words bootstraps and personal accountability upsets these niggas

fuck em

Didn't even need a new machine; Any PC running Windows XP or Vista could put $13.50/hr @ 40hrs a week in your pocket.

I found similar jobs that capped you at 20-22hrs but at the same pay rate.

There's an entire ecosystem of jobs you can work from home which, in the case of Safiyyah Cotton, would go a long way towards reducing your expenses (no more daycare or transportation costs) while paying you significantly more than $7.50/hr.

You just have to be willing to learn the job (you will be trained) and able to work it (i.e. willing to shell out $30/month for a basic internet connection and spend $50 for an old P4 running XP or Vista).

There's a lot of work out there, plenty of companies looking to hire people to work from home. You just have to look for those jobs; shit ain't gonna just drop out of the sky and land in your lap.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

A nigerian has some money he needs to get out of the country too. He just needs you to send him $10,000 first.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>A nigerian has some money he needs to get out of the country
>too. He just needs you to send him $10,000 first.

https://www.leapforceathome.com/qrp/public/jobs/list
specifically this one - https://www.leapforceathome.com/qrp/public/job/1


which is similar to this company: http://www.appen.com/company/opportunities/

and this one: http://issworld.isoftstone.com/CrowdJobListings/tabid/103/language/en-US/Default.aspx

and this one: http://www.lionbridge.com/careers/ (peep the work at home opportunities)

Of the four, I've worked for Appen and LeapForce. Both pay monthly, so you have to budget your money right. They will also allow you to work under a TIN/EIN if you have one (if you don't, get one from the IRS, it's free). Leapforce is the only one of the four that allows you to work 40 hrs a week with the other three capping you at a max of 22hrs a week (20hrs work +2hrs administrative). Leapforce and Appen pay $13.50/hr, iSoftStone pays $12.50/hr, and Lionbridge pays the most at $14-$15 depending on the slot you get.

There's also Support.com, which allows you to work from home as a tech support agent but requires you to have some amount of technical aptitude. Amazingly, they pay the worst at $10.50/hr, however they give you a 401K and benefits and require 40 hrs a week.

And there's a lot more than them. AmEx, US Airways, and quite a few other companies have work from home positions, typically doing call center work with decent pay.

So... As I've done, all it takes is a simple google search to find shit out... And I handed it to you as you wanted.

You're welcome nigga.
---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

If you're a contractor making $13 an hour with no health insurance, no social security matching and no seperate home office that would allow you to write off part of your rent, internet and utilities....that $13 an hour is more like $8!
Which is not far enough from $7.50 an hour to make it the "moving on up" type prospect you pose it as.
The only difference is at the end of the tax season the person making $7.50 is going to get a earned income credit of up to $1000 and any money they paid in taxes throughout the year back, both state and federal. They may qualify for Medicare too.
Now you feeling siddidy making your $13, but actually you gon' give the irs/state at least 30-40% of your money and get nothing back as a contractor because you have no place of business for that fancy EIN that was so easy to registered for. Now add in a private health plan or maybe Obama care with a monthly payment. In other words, you the full-time contractor comes out shorter than the full-time employee making $7.50.

I only know this because I did it in my 20's.

Note: the one that requires tech knowledge and gives benefits pays less, $10.50, but is the better bet with a lower tax rate. You'll take home more money depending on the cost of the benefits packages. But like you said, it requires skills that will box some people out.

Anyway....
http://media.giphy.com/media/R6bDgXEXCLcIw/giphy.gif

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>If you're a contractor making $13 an hour with no health
>insurance, no social security matching and no seperate home
>office that would allow you to write off part of your rent,
>that $13 an hour is more like $8. Which is not far enough from
>$7.50 an hour to make it a "moving on up" type prospect.
>The only difference is at the end of the tax season the person
>making $7.50 is going to get a earned income credit back and
>any money they paid in taxes thought the year back, both state
>and federal. While you feeling siddidy making your $13, but
>actually you gon' give the irs/state at least 30-40% of your
>money and get nothing back as a contractor.... In other words,
> you the full-time contractor comes out shorter than the
>full-time employee making $7.50.

Two things about this that's wrong:

1. The jobs have the *option* to work under a TIN. You don't have to, but the option to do so is there.

2. If you've paid 30-40% in taxes making only $13/hr on a 1099 or C2C contract, you did something horribly, horribly wrong. If you did it prior to 2013, taking the home office deduction was complicated 'cause you had to calculate shit like square footage of the house used for the business, etc... But since 2013 it's been vastly simplified. TBH, you never needed a separate room, just a clear marker for where the business area is and use it only for that purpose. When I ran my design/recording business in my 1 bedroom apartment back in the late 90's I had tape on the floor around my area so you could tell where the business was; shit was that simple.

Right now my business is in my garage and there's no mistaking it for what it is. I keep receipts for everything to write it all off and keep my tax burden low.

> Note: the one that requires tech knowledge and gives
>benefits pays pays less, $10.50, but is the better bet with a
>lower tax rate. But like you said, it requires skills that
>will box some people out.

I went in-depth on my experience with the company (Support.com) in this thread:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12711712#12711864

when you work under a EIN or our own name doesn't matter. It doesn't change your tax status or the amount you pay in tax. You're still a contractor. No state or fed taxes withdrawn.
As far as the home office deduction...
Yes, back in the 90s you could just claim a home office willy nilly... so everyone did, which was a problem. The IRS cracked down on this heavily in the early mid-2000 and came up with all new rules about what qualifies as a home office. It also raised your chances of triggering a audit if you claim one, which is why now you won't find an above board accountant who will say it's fine to have a home office in your living room or bedroom. You can gamble it and people do it but it ain't legal. Yes they are easing up but people are still getting audited.
So now that means you can't deduct any sizable business expenses. Like rent, utilites, internet. Those are the kind of deductions that people use to get from 30% tax rate to something reasonable like 15%. Storage of goods is easy to delinate, a laptop only is not so easy when you're audited.
It used to be there could not be a sofa, tv or bed in the room eligible for a home office deduction. I'm not an accountant but I've been through this personally.
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>when you work under a EIN or our own name doesn't matter. It
>doesn't change your tax status or the amount you pay in tax.
>You're still a contractor. No state or fed taxes withdrawn.

There is such a thing as a W2 contractor (my resume isn't 6 pages long for nothing). Working for the companies I listed you have the option to work W2 or 1099.

>As far as the home office deduction...
>Yes, back in the 90s you could just claim a home office willy
>nilly... so everyone did, which was a problem. The IRS cracked
>down on this heavily in the early mid-2000 and came up with
>all new rules about what qualifies as a home office. It also
>raised your chances of triggering a audit if you claim one,
>which is why now you won't find an above board accountant who
>will say it's fine to have a home office in your living room
>or bedroom. You can gamble it and people do it but it ain't
>legal. Yes they are easing up but people are still getting
>audited.

The rule was always to have an area set aside strictly for business activities. You could do that with a partition, curtain, whatever, so long as there was a clear marker for where your office space existed. They cracked down because they found that a lot of people were lying about it and using office space for personal activities. Once a number of auditors caught wind of it, people were punished and the rules changed.


>So now that means you can't deduct any sizable business
>expenses. Like rent, utilites, internet. Those are the kind of
>deductions that people use to get from 30% tax rate to
>something reasonable like 15%. Storage of goods is easy to
>delinate, a laptop only is not so easy when you're audited.
>It used to be there could not be a sofa, tv or bed in the room
>eligible for a home office deduction. I'm not an accountant
>but I've been through this personally.

It's really easy if you have a workspace readily available, just have a desk ready with some sort of way to show that this is strictly your workspace.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

there will still be jobless people and poor people.

the less desireable people are still going to suffer.

like in 2007 you had people with tons highly educated people with tons of experience who were 50++ and never went back to work.

if all the uneducated people white and black go and get degrees, the black people will still be chosen less and be less desireable.

and at the end of the day most of the jobs are in service industries so someone is still going to have to do those whether they're degreed or not.

cause fuck education

>i see/hear both sides of the argument... but what is a viable
>answer?

-Minimum wage changed to living wage: If a job exists, it should be enough to cover a single parent of 1 at MINIMUM. If a person has more than one child (male or female), is single and is on a living wage, they are allowed to apply for government assistance. That assistance however will require job training, actively seeking better employment and enrolling in a money management program where a financial professional works with you and manages your income for you (no, you won't have an I-phone if your budget doesn't allow for it UNLESS you save for it which can be worked into your plan). Single fathers with multiple children will be forced into this program as part of child support if they are also working at the livable wage mark.

You want government help then the government will MAKE you responsible.

-Free health care for all (yes, we'll pay taxes for it)

-Revamp of educational budgeting: All schools should receive a standard baseline of funding NOT tied to local taxes but by REGIONAL taxes (If a lower class school currently receives $2 mil a year in local tax based funding and a middle/upper class school receives $25 mil+, a baseline of $10 mil min, should be allocated to both (all) schools with the surplus going to areas that produce more via taxes...f*ck your lacrosse team fam, Tyreke needs technology tools to help keep him off the block) and it should be managed to certain criteria (curriculum, test scores, college prep/placement %'s). When a school repeatedly fails to meet those requirements, school administrations and government officials should be in line for terminations (the schools shouldn't lose funding, the decision makers should be held accountable).

^^^This would de-emphasize school zoning also.

-Anyone/any company applying for a business license in any city should be forced to consider lower class zones FIRST. 10 new businesses open in a poor neighborhood offering livable wages, all of sudden there's less poverty, less crime, better taxes, better economy, better services (police/fire dept/uptick in teacher influx). If we can zone kids to go to poor schools and keep them out of better hoods, why can't we do the same for business...but in reverse? Now business are forced to care about improving these hoods as it's better for profits.

-Upper managements salary should be taxed proportionate to their performance in developing new business in these hoods and their bonuses should be tied to growth. (and no fudging the system with dimished titles, pay transferred to stock, etc.)

-Local elected government officials and government employees salaries will be taxed on the overall development of the region (county, metropolis...however it's designated). If there's an extreme deficit in quality of life for any part of the region, they pay a higher tax rate.

^^^These last two bullets ensure that they have to care about EVERYONE instead of the ones more fortunate.

Don't know how realistic any of this (given capitalism...probably very little) but I think this would help reverse what it current is.

>>i see/hear both sides of the argument... but what is a
>viable
>>answer?
>
>-Minimum wage changed to living wage: If a job exists, it
>should be enough to cover a single parent of 1 at MINIMUM. If
>a person has more than one child (male or female), is single
>and is on a living wage, they are allowed to apply for
>government assistance. That assistance however will require
>job training, actively seeking better employment and enrolling
>in a money management program where a financial professional
>works with you and manages your income for you (no, you won't
>have an I-phone if your budget doesn't allow for it UNLESS you
>save for it which can be worked into your plan). Single
>fathers with multiple children will be forced into this
>program as part of child support if they are also working at
>the livable wage mark.

My one change to this would be changing it from covering a single parent to a single person 'cause not everyone has a child.

>
>You want government help then the government will MAKE you
>responsible.
>
>-Free health care for all (yes, we'll pay taxes for it)
>
>-Revamp of educational budgeting: All schools should receive a
>standard baseline of funding NOT tied to local taxes but by
>REGIONAL taxes (If a lower class school currently receives $2
>mil a year in local tax based funding and a middle/upper class
>school receives $25 mil+, a baseline of $10 mil min, should be
>allocated to both (all) schools with the surplus going to
>areas that produce more via taxes...f*ck your lacrosse team
>fam, Tyreke needs technology tools to help keep him off the
>block) and it should be managed to certain criteria
>(curriculum, test scores, college prep/placement %'s). When a
>school repeatedly fails to meet those requirements, school
>administrations and government officials should be in line for
>terminations (the schools shouldn't lose funding, the decision
>makers should be held accountable).
>
>^^^This would de-emphasize school zoning also.
>
>-Anyone/any company applying for a business license in any
>city should be forced to consider lower class zones FIRST. 10
>new businesses open in a poor neighborhood offering livable
>wages, all of sudden there's less poverty, less crime, better
>taxes, better economy, better services (police/fire
>dept/uptick in teacher influx). If we can zone kids to go to
>poor schools and keep them out of better hoods, why can't we
>do the same for business...but in reverse? Now business are
>forced to care about improving these hoods as it's better for
>profits.
>
>-Upper managements salary should be taxed proportionate to
>their performance in developing new business in these hoods
>and their bonuses should be tied to growth. (and no fudging
>the system with dimished titles, pay transferred to stock,
>etc.)

^^^ This part is the one that likely won't ever happen. There are too many variables to take into account for, particularly when it comes to small businesses and especially home based businesses (like mine).

>
>-Local elected government officials and government employees
>salaries will be taxed on the overall development of the
>region (county, metropolis...however it's designated). If
>there's an extreme deficit in quality of life for any part of
>the region, they pay a higher tax rate.
>
>^^^These last two bullets ensure that they have to care about
>EVERYONE instead of the ones more fortunate.
>
>Don't know how realistic any of this (given
>capitalism...probably very little) but I think this would help
>reverse what it current is.

qualifying any of this will also be kinda difficult. What are the standards and where are they coming from? Who is setting those standards? That person would need to be politically neutral since Dems, GOP, and Libs all have a different view on what "quality of life" means.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>My one change to this would be changing it from covering a
>single parent to a single person 'cause not everyone has a
>child.

Nah, I say single parent as we all should be allowed to afford at least ONE kid. And two people on a livable wage should be able to take care of that kid semi-comfortably. In America, that should be our standard.


>^^^ This part is the one that likely won't ever happen. There
>are too many variables to take into account for, particularly
>when it comes to small businesses and especially home based
>businesses (like mine).

There could be provisions for business size/home businesses. Maybe instead of being forced to set up shop in one of those zones, they just have their corporate taxes allotted. But ideally, there'd be a cutoff, like less than $500K a year in sales + less than 20 employees would be exempt from the location requirement but still be on the hook for taxes.

We could figure out lots of ways to make this work. Trust.

>qualifying any of this will also be kinda difficult. What are
>the standards and where are they coming from? Who is setting
>those standards? That person would need to be politically
>neutral since Dems, GOP, and Libs all have a different view on
>what "quality of life" means.

Quality of life may have been the incorrect term but if I had to define it, it would be that minimum services be met for all areas of a region (county/metropolis). Streets and sanitation funding and productivity, crime fighting, education, social services, parks and recreation, employment opportunity, healthcare. These are basic things that all areas should have provided on par with like areas in their region. There's no reason a Chicago Public School in a low income hood should be closing if a mid-tier suburban school can net 26 mil in local taxes. Crime increases with poverty so resources should be provided to those areas that need it most so that everyone is relatively on the same footing with opportunity and protective services like police presence, fire fighting, etc.

Some might call this socialist or spreading the wealth but they are already social programs...just segregated, likely by racial lines. I'm just suggesting that the resources be applied justly.

PG, you know if people were REALLY committed to seeing everyone do well (or well enough) none of this would be like moving mountains.

where poor only because of their bad financial decisions and not because the system of sharecropping was specifically designed to keep the sharecropper in constant poverty and debt so they could never leave...

These minimum wage jobs are traps. Many people work min wage jobs are on call up to 6 days a week or have no set schedule at all, which makes going to school basically impossible, let alone trying to access other opportunities to improve themselves. They don't really have the options to forgo the money or they can't eat, nor do they have the ability or time to pursue other opportunities, that's if they even exist.


So, yall think the plan to fix this is for the poor to stop having kids so they'll just go extinct... rather than fix the wages system that is specifically designed to keep millions of people in working poverty?

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

no one

not one person said stop having kids in hopes of becoming extinct

however CHOOSING to have a child while impoverished is not wise

now, someone is fully free to CHOOSE to do so
but we are in no obligation to sympathize with that decision when you struggle

its a simple concept
yall make it complex

There are 8 million working poor families in the US and 11 million individuals (not in families) who are working poor in the US. Let's say a family consist of a minimum of two. That means we are talking about almost 30 million people, by the most conservative estimate, who either have someone working in their household or are actually working themselves but are still in poverty.
So, no... telling people to "plan your children better" does not address the issue of 30 million+ working people in poverty.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>where poor only because of their bad financial decisions and
>not because the system of sharecropping was specifically
>designed to keep the sharecropper in constant poverty and debt
>so they could never leave...
>
>These minimum wage jobs are traps. Many people work min wage
>jobs are on call up to 6 days a week or have no set schedule
>at all, which makes going to school basically impossible, let
>alone trying to access other opportunities to improve
>themselves. They don't really have the options to forgo the
>money or they can't eat, nor do they have the ability or time
>to pursue other opportunities, that's if they even exist.
>
>
>So, yall think the plan to fix this is for the poor to stop
>having kids so they'll just go extinct... rather than fix the
>wages system that is specifically designed to keep millions of
>people in working poverty?
>

I don't believe anyone here doesn't support increased wages but that's just not the reality. There is no place in the world where a single mother with little job training is not going to struggle.

This system is not set up for one person to make it let alone someone raising a single child. We are saying its best to teach those impoverished to value education or job training and not have kids until financially capable. My friends that got married early and waited to have kids are doing much better financially than my friends who stayed single.

But yeah I also support increased wages and more social programs. Both (personal responsibility and better social structure) are extremely hard to implement, but the personal responsibility side is the one the individual has more control over. Just say I'm for an all of the above approach.

This always happens, lets focus on what requires the least effort from society so we can defer responsibility for the failing structure of it to those with the least agency.
We can end poverty. It's a 100% a conscious choice not to.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>This always happens, lets focus on what requires the least
>effort from society so we can defer responsibility for the
>failing structure of it to those with the least agency.
>We can end poverty. It's a 100% a conscious choice not to.
>
>___________________________________________________________
>
>
>DJTB YOMM


I understand and I support structural change, I just think that not focusing on personal responsibility breeds a dependency mindset. Of course all situations are different but the dependency mindset is real.

I happen to believe we are stronger than the forces that oppose us we've just been brainwashed to believe otherwise. I see poor immigrants come over here work their ass off and become successful so its possible. I see situations in families (mine and others) where one sibling works hard and becomes successful and the other doesn't and struggles so we can't say personal responsibility doesn't play a role.

I just happen to believe that owning your mistakes and taking control of how your life and believing you can overcome anything is more individually empowering.

You give lip service to it but you don't understand it. By its very nature structualism cannot be overcome the choices of individuals. If it could, than it wouldn't be structualism. It can only be overcome by a choice to collectively dismantle it. In fact, the classical argument against structualism's exsistance is that there are a few marginal outliers that achieve success even if it's only 2%.

It is indisputably that today in the US that the vast majority of people... black, white or otherwise, will die in the class that they were born into. We have some of the lowest levels of class mobility among comparable European countries, who where founded on nobility and aristocracy. For white men in the US its something like only 8% will jump class. It worse for Blacks and Latinos, closer to 3%.
You cannot move 30 million people out of working poverty with boot straps for 8-3%. That is actually impossible!

When white immigration happened at the turn of the century and during WW2 there was government policy that enabled many of those people to move from working poor to middle class.
When the GI's came home from WW2 it was clear that a large effort had to be engineered to move them into the middle class. They offered subsidized home loans, public works projects for jobs, education, and a host of other benefits.
After Vietnam soldiers didn't get much but boot straps and the effects where devastating. I say all that to say... there have been many pushes in the past to economically engineer a middle class in America and shift the numbers of poor to widen the middle class and they worked for those who were lucky enough to get a ticket for those services.
Our current predicament is not because it can't be done, it's because Americans, as a people, have been convinced against their own best interest that the poor don't deserve the public policy and economic engineering of their forefathers to move into the middle class, even if they show a propensity toward work.


___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

>You give lip service to it but you don't understand it. By
>its very nature structualism cannot be overcome the choices of
>individuals. If it could, than it wouldn't be structualism. It
>can only be overcome by a choice to collectively dismantle it.
>In fact, the classical argument against structualism's
>exsistance is that there are a few marginal outliers that
>achieve success even if it's only 2%.
>
>It is indisputably that today in the US that the vast majority
>of people... black, white or otherwise, will die in the class
>that they were born into. We have some of the lowest levels of
>class mobility among comparable European countries, who where
>founded on nobility and aristocracy. For white men in the US
>its something like only 8% will jump class. It worse for
>Blacks and Latinos, closer to 3%.
>You cannot move 30 million people out of working poverty with
>boot straps for 8-3%. That is actually impossible!
>
>When white immigration happened at the turn of the century and
>during WW2 there was government policy that enabled many of
>those people to move from working poor to middle class.
>When the GI's came home from WW2 it was clear that a large
>effort had to be engineered to move them into the middle
>class. They offered subsidized home loans, public works
>projects for jobs, education, and a host of other benefits.
>After Vietnam soldiers didn't get much but boot straps and the
>effects where devastating. I say all that to say... there have
>been many pushes in the past to economically engineer a middle
>class in America and shift the numbers of poor to widen the
>middle class and they worked for those who were lucky enough
>to get a ticket for those services.
> Our current predicament is not because it can't be done, it's
>because Americans, as a people, have been convinced against
>their own best interest that the poor don't deserve the
>public policy and economic engineering of their forefathers to
>move into the middle class, even if they show a propensity
>toward work.
>
>
>___________________________________________________________
>
>
>DJTB YOMM

That's all true and I don't disagree with anything you said. I just am not optimistic that there will be structural change. What happened post world war II was extremely rare in the history of social change. The economy is much different now with globalization and technology.

I just don't see a world were individuals can make a living working at Mcdonalds similar to the factory workers post world war 2. and the factory jobs are gone. People point to European countries but that on a smaller scale with a homogenized population.

The tax structure was different then and America reaped the benefits of being the victor in the world war. Now with huge deficits and debt and foreign competition I just don't see that sort of change on the horizon, but I hope I'm wrong.

its hilariously sad that yall think our ideas stem from an attempt to find what provides the least effort possible from society.

if others can do what you had the opportunity to do but cant/wont/didnt due to poor choices, thats not a failing structure.

personally im not interested at all in exploring the idea of any program, assistance, or improvment in structure for any able bodied adult unwilling to apply logic to their life choices.
not until they look in the mirror first

sorry

>where poor only because of their bad financial decisions and
>not because the system of sharecropping was specifically
>designed to keep the sharecropper in constant poverty and debt
>so they could never leave...
>
>These minimum wage jobs are traps. Many people work min wage
>jobs are on call up to 6 days a week or have no set schedule
>at all, which makes going to school basically impossible, let
>alone trying to access other opportunities to improve
>themselves. They don't really have the options to forgo the
>money or they can't eat, nor do they have the ability or time
>to pursue other opportunities, that's if they even exist.

Fast food spots set a schedule every week. Management has to in order to project costs for the coming week so you're definitely not talking about burger/chicken flippin jobs.

And the jobs exist, if you're willing to invest in personal infrastructure to further yourself. As I said before, in Philly a basic internet connection costs $30/month and I've checked Craigslist and found quite a few viable computers (some being laptops) that one could use to work an at-home job that requires next to ZERO technical knowledge(can you use Google or Bing? Are you alive and can think? Good, there's a job waiting for you!)

But you could start the job at a library, or at least take the tests to qualify for the job there. You just have to be willing to sit there for 4-8hrs a day holding down one of their machines for the entire time.

>So, yall think the plan to fix this is for the poor to stop
>having kids so they'll just go extinct... rather than fix the
>wages system that is specifically designed to keep millions of
>people in working poverty?

Having kids before you're ready can keep you impoverished regardless of a wage increase. I've done the numbers already in #129 for this girl at $15/hr living in Philly. You can live, but you ain't doing it big or living lavish. You ain't coppin the iPhone 6 or Galaxy 6 with a plan from Sprint/ATT/whomever. Your needs are met and that's it with a few bucks a week to save or spend.

The logical way is to not have children before you're able to care for them; that just makes sense.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

between those two I was able to make ends meet. Until I eventually got a better paying job. So on and so forth.

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be lifelong careers.

how's the view from the perspective of loud and wrong?

~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

the labels sure seem to hurt your feelings


don't like labels? stop fitting so neatly in them


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/living%20wage

living wage
noun
: an amount of money you are paid for a job that is large enough to provide you with the basic things (such as food and shelter) needed to live an acceptable life

.

or because of their reasons why?

and people talking in broad strokes about a situation they obviously don't know SHIT about.

Not one person replied to my breakdown...but the talking points these fuckas are putting up reads like the Mike Hannity show.

while these companies make billions screwing their employees. smh

... motherfuckers that have yet to live the real struggle life can FUCK ALLLL THE WAY OFF. Y'all think this life shit is an arithmetic problem and that is the problem with this country. A bunch of people out of touch about everything looking down on others. Seriously you disgust me.

About Akon's $1200 a month question...

It could work if you lived in a college town from what I imagine. Is zipskinny still around? We can figure this out quickly. Use zipskinny's income comparison tool then use lovely apartments to find the average cost of rent where you want to live. You'd technically have a place to stay, working electricity, and food. Might have to ride your bike around the place you stay.

"Oh she shouldn't have had a child while she only had a low income wage". The bottom line is it's where she's at. There is no would, could or should. Just the situation at hand.Shit is not constructive and has no real solution than be judgey. STFU

You also have the " I was there and I got out" .Count your blessings and move the hell on. You are not the norm. Poverty is a trap very few are able to get out of.

A liveable wage for all is what is needed here. If you have a job even a small "insignificant job"; you should be able to have the basics without having to gravel. Americans love to chest thump about being the richest and best but tolerate this shit like it's normal. Your government is rich; too many people living in poverty to be proud of anything.

>
>"Oh she shouldn't have had a child while she only had a low
>income wage". The bottom line is it's where she's at. There is
>no would, could or should. Just the situation at hand.Shit is
>not constructive and has no real solution than be judgey.
>STFU
>
>You also have the " I was there and I got out" .Count your
>blessings and move the hell on. You are not the norm. Poverty
>is a trap very few are able to get out of.
>
>A liveable wage for all is what is needed here. If you have a
>job even a small "insignificant job"; you should be able to
>have the basics without having to gravel. Americans love to
>chest thump about being the richest and best but tolerate this
>shit like it's normal. Your government is rich; too many
>people living in poverty to be proud of anything.


nobody on this site is proud of america,

i'm all for a livable wage but unfortunately i don't see that happening anytime soon

I'm for a minimum wage increase but they would probably just pass the increase the cost of living, the country is running a deficit/debt so i don't see much possibility for a jobs program or substantial increase in social services. We should increase the tax on the wealthy but half of the country is vehemently against tax increases.

So how to survive now.

>nobody on this site is proud of america,
>
>i'm all for a livable wage but unfortunately i don't see that
>happening anytime soon
>
>I'm for a minimum wage increase but they would probably just
>pass the increase the cost of living, the country is running a
>deficit/debt so i don't see much possibility for a jobs
>program or substantial increase in social services. We should
>increase the tax on the wealthy but half of the country is
>vehemently against tax increases.
>
>So how to survive now.


Hi there,
I've read a couple of "We were born with the same opportunities" in this thread, which is a load of bull that cosigns this false and dangerous myth of the "American dream" in 2015.I'm of the opinion that a poor class is tolerated and maintained to benefit some devious elements that make a business of exploiting them. The minimum wage is a band aid that has no guarantees.Having a job should guarantee a person the minimum ressources, I'm all for capitalism but not at the cost of holding a boot to the neck of the most vulnerable in our society. A billion dollar corporation should pay their employees in according of their profits, instead of CEO's offering themselves astronomical bonuses based on nothing particulate hand their greed.

functional adult and have been working somewhere more that 2 years and still making minimum wage and haven't moved up or out that's a direct reflection on you.

that was the premise on which it was established.

the fact that it has not kept up is a shame
but lets not act like fdr wasnt talking about wages being able to sustain an acceptable standard of living
he was and he did

if a person works a full time position in a minimum wage job (35 to 40 hrs a week), they should make enough to cover the basics, which is affordable housing in their area, food, and utilities. People are always talking about social programs negatively but I wish ppl would realize if companies stepped up and increased the minimum wage to a livable wage appropriate for that city/state, the amount of money spent on benefits would significantly decrease.

Plus if I need an extra $300 a month to make it, and end up getting paid $12 instead of $7, I can work less hours to get that $300, freeing up more hours for someone else, and more time for me to better myself. See how that works? More ppl benefit in the long run and it will be cheaper for the government. (I'm simplifying). But because I have to work 40 extra a month instead of maybe 25, I can only take one class instead of two. (NOT ME BUT FOR EXAMPLE)

i hope none of ya'll ever get laid off and can't get a job or end up underemployed.

a grown one at that

has it ever crossed any of your minds that we feel this way not because we dont know anyone like this, but because we personally know more people straight up gaming the system that refuse any and all alternatives to help themselves than not

you think we dont have relatives having babies for income?

or refusing to take a job with better pay and benefits so they can stay on welfare?

I'm more apt to look at how companies like McDonalds are gaming the system. They exploit the shit out of loopholes to never pay taxes. In a lot of cases, they get millions in refunds. They get tax breaks from Welfare-to-work. They get tax breaks from hiring felons. Yet, simultaneously, they pay these people so poorly that they still require government assistance, all the while raking in millions or even billions of dollars in profit.

But sure, let's focus on the statistically negligible amount of people gaming the system for far less money.

> They get
>tax breaks from hiring felons. Yet, simultaneously, they pay
>these people so poorly that they still require government
>assistance, all the while raking in millions or even billions
>of dollars in profit.

Bruh... do you know how hard it is to get a job in this country with a felony??? If they're getting tax breaks for hiring felons, more cats with records would have jobs. One of the biggest reasons for high recidivism rates among felons is they're unable to find work, so they end up back out there on the street committing crimes to make ends meet and get caught starting that whole cycle over. Very few of them have the skills necessary to start a business of their own to make money; those that do will make a way.

>
>But sure, let's focus on the statistically negligible amount
>of people gaming the system for far less money.
>

Bruh... The number of people gaming welfare and disability is hardly "statistically negligible". Everyone knows someone lying about a disability to get a check; they just haven't been caught. They end up working under the table for someone or for themselves 'cause disability has a cap on how much you can earn before cutting you off.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

My partner is on disability. He makes a whopping $1054 a month and from what I've heard from others, he's on the high end.

When we lived in TX that was too much for him to get food stamps, as the maximum you can make for a single person is $800. In Cali, he qualifies, but not for much.

He gets medicaid in Cali, but in TX. He was required to pay $125 a month. So, he was supposed supply all of his food, housing, insurance, and utilities all on $1054 a month. That's what he was expected to live off of without me. So, I ask you, how is someone living it up off that?

You say "everybody knows someone," but that's anecdotal as hell. There are no hard numbers to back up what you're saying...like, at all.


edit: Also, there are absolutely tax credits for hiring felons. It's called a Work Opportunity Tax Credit. I'm not making this up. Now, not every company deems the reward of a tax credit worth the risk of hiring a felon, but if they do, the tax credit exists.

>My partner is on disability. He makes a whopping $1054 a
>month and from what I've heard from others, he's on the high
>end.
>
>When we lived in TX that was too much for him to get food
>stamps, as the maximum you can make for a single person is
>$800. In Cali, he qualifies, but not for much.
>
>He gets medicaid in Cali, but in TX. He was required to pay
>$125 a month. So, he was supposed supply all of his food,
>housing, insurance, and utilities all on $1054 a month.
>That's what he was expected to live off of without me. So, I
>ask you, how is someone living it up off that?
>
>You say "everybody knows someone," but that's anecdotal as
>hell. There are no hard numbers to back up what you're
>saying...like, at all.
>
>
>edit: Also, there are absolutely tax credits for hiring
>felons. It's called a Work Opportunity Tax Credit. I'm not
>making this up. Now, not every company deems the reward of a
>tax credit worth the risk of hiring a felon, but if they do,
>the tax credit exists.


My wife has been on disability for 9 years so I'm in that same boat with you. But what I wrote is that the people gaming the system are often lying about their issues. The vast majority are never caught and those that are typically are plastered all over the place as some sort of deterrent.

Once you're on disability, you work under the table or work under a business name so it never looks like you receive any additional income. As you already know, if you make too much money legally while
on disability they'll take it away.

That free money becomes a crutch. Depending on where you're at once you get disability you're given food stamps (especially if your spouse doesn't work), a spot for Section 8, and other services. The incentive to get on all of this and stay on it is pretty high, so a lot of people refuse to return to work or try to find alternative work that would accommodate whatever their issue is.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

hat free money becomes a crutch. Depending on where you're at
>once you get disability you're given food stamps (especially
>if your spouse doesn't work), a spot for Section 8, and other
>services. The incentive to get on all of this and stay on it
>is pretty high, so a lot of people refuse to return to work or
>try to find alternative work that would accommodate whatever
>their issue is.

It all depends on where you are. In red states, which often have higher concentrations of poverty, where the laws don't support the poor, you don't qualify for any of that.

I'll admit that with kids, a person can get more mileage out of some entitlements, but, as a single person, which my partner had to be because marriage literally only became an options a few months ago, it just doesn't go that far.

I've never said there aren't people who game the system, but the vast majority of people are just in fucked up situations trying to get over. My partner is lucky that I'm able to hold it down, but in Cali, that shit is straight neutralized, which is why we're about to move.

So, in an affordable red state, disability doesn't qualify you for anything. In California, he can get $70 in food stamps a month, but our rent and living expenses are well over double what we paid in TX. That's why I say, even the people "gaming the system" aren't really getting over that well. Even if they're getting money under the table, it would hardly constitute living it up. Add to that, we're talking about a minority of the people who receive this assistance. Most of these people are honest folks who need the assistance to live.

Is there room for reform, absolutely. I just don't understand why we go for these people, when the money you stand to gain/save pales greatly in comparison to the abuses that corporations are getting away with.

and other similar employers. they're gaming the system to the detriment of millions of ppl - thousands of families.

the statistically few welfare-recipients who 'game the system' are moot.

they have no intentions of making an honest go at building an independent life.

but they're not getting enough in money/benefits for me to care. if you're cool with living in the projects and surviving off that little check and those stamps, knock yourself out.




***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

I'm not worried about them

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

i worked with government contractors for years. talk about getting over? sheeeeeeeeit. fraud, waste, and abuse adds up to way more money than people hustling welfare...


***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

because "poor people need to make better financial decisions" or "minimum wage aren't supposed to be permanent"? Did I get that right?

wage or 6 figures.

A pay raise won't change that. Sometimes it makes it worse.

Most of us can agree that financial literacy needs to be better integrated into education, especially for children who grow up without someone modeling those types of behaviors. However, financial literacy means little, if you're not even making enough to provide for yourself, even by the most modest standards.

There's also the fact that if she's receiving government assistance, McDonalds is getting a Welfare-to-Work tax credit for hiring her. McDonalds is also not paying taxes as a company, because of massive corporate tax loopholes. Further, they are making millions in profit on top of all of this. But the poor person is really the one we should ride on?

>There's also the fact that if she's receiving government
>assistance, McDonalds is getting a Welfare-to-Work tax credit
>for hiring her. McDonalds is also not paying taxes as a
>company, because of massive corporate tax loopholes. Further,
>they are making millions in profit on top of all of this. But
>the poor person is really the one we should ride on?

McDonalds routinely pays out over $2 billion dollars in taxes in the US, which usually gets them ranked among the top 25 highest taxpayers among corporations.

2012 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2012/04/16/which-megacorps-pay-megataxes/

2013 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/04/23/which-corporations-pay-the-most-taxes/

Should they have paid more? Hell yes, but let's not sit here and lie like they're not paying anything.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

http://www.world-psi.org/sites/default/files/documents/research/en_golden-dodges-final.pdf

McDonald's is really the hill you want to die on. They avoiding taxes here, and all over the world and you really want to cape for them?

>
>http://www.world-psi.org/sites/default/files/documents/research/en_golden-dodges-final.pdf
>
>McDonald's is really the hill you want to die on. They
>avoiding taxes here, and all over the world and you really
>want to cape for them?

You stated: "...McDonalds is also not paying taxes as a company, because of massive corporate tax loopholes"

This is factually incorrect. Because McDonalds is a publicly traded company in this country their complete financial information is available to the public. This includes how much they pay out in taxes every year. There has never been a time where McDonalds paid no taxes as you claimed.

All I did was point out how your statement is factually incorrect. Don't equate it with caping especially since I CLEARLY said they should pay more.

"... Should they have paid more? Hell yes..."


I'll admit I didn't go into detail on how this would be accomplished, but the sentiment is there.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOcOBjB3uU

than that McD's and other employers' bad deeds be addressed.

which is what makes them such vile ppl. all of them.

ThaTruth.
spm.
seasoned vet.
PG.

they're among the worst ppl posting here. just absolute filth.

but we're the vile people...

We're vile for holding people accountable for their actions.
You try your best to make sure people never have to be held accountable for theirs.

You lie for a living... You twist the truth, bend rules, and make deals to keep criminals on the street and you do it with a clear conscience and a fat wallet.

but we're "vile".

You the same nigga that has sympathy for pedophiles, the same nigga that has no problem with a random nigga jerking in front of kids on a playground...

but we're "vile".

http://images.rapgenius.com/7f46ad3b58cf71febca2c6bb90814d57.600x600x1.jpg

Dog, you're really a piece of work. Smug, condescending, entitled, completely convinced of your moral superiority.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

PG = PoppaGeorge.

just for clarity.

the actual 'PG' is a good dude.

of any issue.

You say that shit like you know me. Nigga you don't know shit about me at all. You come off like you're some kind of righteous crusader for justice or some shit, but is that you in real life?

Maybe... But the chances are you're probably not.

How many of these poor people you wish to save from greedy evil corporations have you actually helped get a better than minimum wage job?

Know those companies that I've posted over and over in at least 3 or 4 threads like this? I've sent DOZENS of people to them, most of them are working now. I'm constantly trying to help people get off minimum wage jobs 'cause I know that those jobs have no future in them. At least I'm trying to help people, what are you doing bruh? Standing at a podium telling folks to hold their head up until massa gives them that minimum wage increase or are you helping them to get better paying jobs right now so they don't have to wait?


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

I made a factual statement. I never said they didn't pay taxes ever in life. You chose to read my statement in the extreme and responded accordingly. You agree that they've avoided taxes, which means you agree that they not paying all their taxes, i.e. they're not paying taxes.

Words mean things.

If he's conceding that McD avoided taxes, that's conceding that they didn't pay taxes, which, in essence, means that he's conceding my statement was not only true, but that he's actually in agreement with it...but go head and cook.

>If he's conceding that McD avoided taxes, that's conceding
>that they didn't pay taxes, which, in essence, means that he's
>conceding my statement was not only true, but that he's
>actually in agreement with it...but go head and cook.

... To which I responded that they do.

"...McDonalds is also not paying taxes as a company, because of massive corporate tax loopholes"

I think anyone reading this would come to the same conclusion: You're stating that McDonalds didn't pay any taxes, which, again would be factually incorrect. If what you meant was that they were using loopholes to get out of paying certain taxes, then I would concede that, but that's not how your statement reads.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

Any inferences made were your own. You were the only one to step out on that limb. If you were unclear on what I was saying, then you could've clarified. You chose to rock with your inference, rather than what I actually said.

Also, while we're hung up on this caveat, the larger issue expressed in the original statement is being ignored, which is that McDonalds is guilty of gaming the system in far more egregious ways. People focus all their efforts on talking about how the poor ain't shit, while letting these corporations get away with scot-free.

what im for is the employees to collectively walk out on whatever company they feel is underpaying them
(WALK OUT, not picket and protest demanding more pay, just leave for better pay)

if that company is hurt by that and they feel you are worth more, then they'll pay it

that or get an education

i got mine
so i really dont give a fuck unfair they think it is

you made that bed
lay in it

>what im for is the employees to collectively walk out on
>whatever company they feel is underpaying them
>(WALK OUT, not picket and protest demanding more pay, just
>leave for better pay)

It's not that simple. Better pay isn't always immediately available, especially for fast food workers, as it's not usually a person's first choice for a job.

>if that company is hurt by that and they feel you are worth
>more, then they'll pay it

What you're not addressing in this point is that said company is actually getting tax breaks ON YOUR WORKING ASS DIME to employ these individuals. So, they are literally taking your money to give them employment while not paying them enough to be live independent of government assistance. If they're going to take tax breaks from us, you don't think it should be a requirement to pay a livable wage? I mean, no one's talking about them balling. We're talking about what should be the bare minimum based on cost-of-living.


>that or get an education

Well, here's the thing, it's levels to this shit. Most of the poor come from schools where education is inadequate. So, it's not as simple as just enrolling in college and getting a bachelor's or certificate. They often have to spend semesters trying to catch up to what should've been taught to them in the first place. So, again, it's not that simple.

>i got mine
>so i really dont give a fuck unfair they think it is

Awesome for you, you're an exception, not the rule.

>you made that bed
>lay in it

Cool story, but you're not requiring the corporations to lay in that bed, you're only putting that impetus on the poor. If you were talking about accountability for corporations, as well, then maybe I could see your point, but to just focus your ire on the poor is just inhumane...and rather dickish.

i dont believe in that

meaning, im know inner city schools are still not equal

but im a firm believer in not waiting on the schools to teach your kids shit

nothing is stopping a parent in any class from reading to their child, making their child read, and preparing that child through the year.

my son may skip 3rd grade this year
while i have neices, nephews, and cousins that have either flunked 1st and 2nd grade or right on the edge

the parents range from poverty to middle class and educated
however none of them can find the time to prepare their kids
but they have plenty time to finger point and place blame

this is just another excuse

another analyzation of how things are unfair

im over it
it will never be equal and fair

if and until we start acting like it will never be equal and unfair shit will never change

>but im a firm believer in not waiting on the schools to teach
>your kids shit
>
>nothing is stopping a parent in any class from reading to
>their child, making their child read, and preparing that child
>through the year.

That's awesome, but how are you supposed to prepare your child, when you're ill prepared, b/c these poor schools have produced generations of poorly educated people. Further, even if a parent wants to do this, where are they supposed to find the time to do this, when they often work long hours to stay afloat?

>my son may skip 3rd grade this year
>while i have neices, nephews, and cousins that have either
>flunked 1st and 2nd grade or right on the edge
>
>the parents range from poverty to middle class and educated
>however none of them can find the time to prepare their kids
>but they have plenty time to finger point and place blame

Yeah, dude, even if that's the case, you're applying your limited experience to an entire population of people. Further, in this age of the disappearing middle class, people are often working long ass hours to stay afloat. Some of that can be solved by financial literacy, but a lot of it has to do with wages not rising with the cost-of-living. That's not an excuse. That is a systemic issue. Further, if you freely admit that the schools that parents are forced to rely upon are in adequate that again points to a systemic/institutional failing.

>this is just another excuse
>
>another analyzation of how things are unfair
>
>im over it
>it will never be equal and fair
>
>if and until we start acting like it will never be equal and
>unfair shit will never change

So, you're in that if you want inequality to end stop talking about inequality camp? Simply accepting that things are inequitable just makes it the status quo. What you're advocating here is apathy. Change doesn't come from acceptance of the status quo; change comes from challenging it.

Some of ya'll are so programmed it boggles the mind.

So let me get this straight, a person born into rough circumstances should struggle because once upon a time you did??

Even worse if you make a mistake or two, in addition to being born into poverty, oh well their fault?

Nevermind how much wealth this country has, let the poor work multiple jobs/ join the military (lol!!!)/ become sterile/ wear rags/ lose the phone etc....because back in the day I (allegedly) did???

I've been pretty lucky, but my mother grew up borderline dirt poor. She doesn't wish that, and what she had to go through, on ANYONE.

I can't believe that people who went through it, look down on others and say "buck up"??

"personal responsibility"??

I wonder if Papa George's folks take personal responsibility for raising a bad person. Like, a legit bad human being.

??

"I did so, so should they." Nevermind how much that belittles certain circumstances and people along the way who no doubt gave you a break.

Programming at its finest. At its absolute finest. And it is completely essential to the system that people continue to believe that its all fair, that we should be bringing each other down, shaming each other, etc- rather than talk about how much coin is actually out there.

Beyond that...

People have to be completely stupid or willfully ignorant to not understand how systematic this is.

So people who grew up in a cycle of poverty get the same education??

These same people know where to go for grants/scholarships?? (I'm assuming they kept up good grades even though they didn't know where the next meal was coming)

With limited resources, get not one but two jobs- where the schedules jive?

They have the skills necessary to search, apply, interview, interview again, and do well at said job?

Oh if none of that works, sign up for the military and go die for oil???

Now we can go on and on about how terrible this thinking is. How it is borderline evil.

We can also talk about how bad socially it is.

We can talk about the risks to public health and well being.

Or how about the impact on crime?

It is terrible economics. Having a growing population of people who do not earn enough to get by- despite working- how is that working for anyone not at the top??


This is not how it should be. And most importantly, there is NO REASON it HAS to be this way.

to overcome? absolutely not.

as if i was born knowing better

>So let me get this straight, a person born into rough
>circumstances should struggle because once upon a time you
>did??

fuck no.
no one SHOULD struggle.

however you CHOOSING to struggle is on you.


>Even worse if you make a mistake or two, in addition to being
>born into poverty, oh well their fault?

for sure not my fault

or my problem.


>Nevermind how much wealth this country has, let the poor work
>multiple jobs/ join the military (lol!!!)/ become sterile/
>wear rags/ lose the phone etc....because back in the day I
>(allegedly) did???

miss me with that (allegedly) shit

joining the military is an excellent way for an uneducated person without options to provide for themselves.

no one is suggest anyone become sterile
if you want non sarcastic answers stop being a fucking dumbass

what we ARE suggesting that if you are barely scrapping by you shouldnt be having kids. thats far from suggesting sterilization

i dont give a fuck what you wear
what phone you have
or how you spend your money
just that once you CHOOSE to spend foolishly dont expect me to sympathize with your situation

>I've been pretty lucky, but my mother grew up borderline dirt
>poor. She doesn't wish that, and what she had to go through,
>on ANYONE.

who's wishing?


>I can't believe that people who went through it, look down on
>others and say "buck up"??

saying buck up isnt looking down on anyone

how does your mind come up with that?


>"personal responsibility"??

you gatdamn right


>Programming at its finest. At its absolute finest. And it is
>completely essential to the system that people continue to
>believe that its all fair, that we should be bringing each
>other down, shaming each other, etc- rather than talk about
>how much coin is actually out there.

i have consistently said its not fair

IT WILL NEVER BE FAIR!!


>People have to be completely stupid or willfully ignorant to
>not understand how systematic this is.

its systematic but not impossible


>So people who grew up in a cycle of poverty get the same
>education??

nope.
but that doesnt stop any parent from reading to their child
making their child read
and make sure their meeting academic goals all year


>These same people know where to go for grants/scholarships??
>(I'm assuming they kept up good grades even though they didn't
>know where the next meal was coming)

they have iphones right? LOL!!


>With limited resources, get not one but two jobs- where the
>schedules jive?

yep
make that shit work.


>They have the skills necessary to search, apply, interview,
>interview again, and do well at said job?

if they wanna survive they better get them


>Oh if none of that works, sign up for the military and go die
>for oil???

damn right.
gotta do what you gotta do
and if thats what you gotta do?


>Now we can go on and on about how terrible this thinking is.
>How it is borderline evil.

ok.


>We can also talk about how bad socially it is.

ok


>We can talk about the risks to public health and well being.

stop it


>Or how about the impact on crime?

you're serious arent you? LOL

>This is not how it should be. And most importantly, there is
>NO REASON it HAS to be this way.

right
it dont.

"...teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

I'll get to this quote in a minute, but read it a few times and let it's message sink in a bit.


>"personal responsibility"??

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

If you cannot hold people accountable for their past mistakes, and they are unwilling to accept fault for whatever led them to a particular station in life, then they will likely repeat the very same thing that caused their downfall. Without personal responsibility minimum wage could be increased to $20/hr and people will still find a way to fuck it all up because you never learned the first time around.

"In the long run, we shape our lives, and we shape ourselves. The process never ends until we die. And the choices we make are ultimately our own responsibility." - Elanor Roosevelt


>
>I wonder if Papa George's folks take personal responsibility
>for raising a bad person. Like, a legit bad human being.

Fuck you and your life nigga. No, really... Fuck you bitch... ass... nigga and your life. You, SoWhat, and the lot of y'all bitches are in some huge circle jerk trying to out-righetous the next nigga. Meanwhile I'm out here actually making a difference in the lives of people and families.

Know what my mother would tell you about the son she raised? That she raised a self-sufficient man that helps everyone he can however he can.

I've helped dozens of people find better than minimum wage paying work and continue to do so. At every company I've ever worked at I've always tried to get as many people in there as I could, whether I knew them or not. Job fair? I'm posting it on local message boards like "yo, polish up your resumes and fall through on such-and-such date".

I've worked community programs that help the poor, I've done shit you manicured hands would never do. I got a cat in my Buddhist district that thanks me every time he sees me 'cause I gave him resources to get work so he can move out of his brother's little apartment and into his own place. I show people where to find jobs they can work from home, especially people with felonies trying their hardest to stay on the straight and narrow 'cause of the gigs I have only one requires a background check. I'm also willing to build out and give someone a computer if they don't already have one so they can work those jobs (granted, they can work most of them from the library but maybe you don't want to sit there all day).

I'm teaching people to fish.

What the fuck are you doing other than talking??? How many people that need jobs have you hooked up with work???

As I expand my business I'm going to end up employing people. My target is to employ people currently in minimum wage jobs and particularly felons trying to live right 'cause ain't nobody giving them breaks in this world.

I'm doing it. You just flappin gums and typing some bullshit.



---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

with a minimal education and a child to raise. They are all men, who don't understand the relationship nuances between a mother and child especially when the child was young. Let them have a child whose mother is out of the picture and they just graduated high school and I bet their outlook on things being easy to get out of would be different.

No one said they dont' have options...everyone has an option even if it's choosing to live or die...but to refuse to recognize the systematic cycle of oppression poorer communities live in is flawed and dismissive.

They dont' realize that a child who doesn't have food, doesn't do as well as others in school. That even if they do well, the education they receive is not as good as middle to upper class schools so they are still behind when it comes to standardized tests (such as the SATs). That incompetence of the ppl who are suppose to help them lead them to now know about other options in life...yes there will always be those who are more aggressive and will go out and fight for a way out...and there are those who fight and end up stuck in the same place...which is who most of these kids see, and in the end, they become cynical to life.

What's crazy is when I did mentor teens, and held a workshop on applying for a job and interviewing, many of the kids were shocked at some of the things I taught them. One brought his grandmother in later that week so she could ask me questions and get help. They lived in the projects and she was fed up with it but she didn't know what to do...and so I helped...and that's what I don't see anyone saying hear...how they can help bring up others in the community who may not know as much as they know.

>with a minimal education and a child to raise. They are all
>men, who don't understand the relationship nuances between a
>mother and child especially when the child was young. Let them
>have a child whose mother is out of the picture and they just
>graduated high school and I bet their outlook on things being
>easy to get out of would be different.

You mean like my first cousin? The one that's the same age as me??? the one that had two kids before she was 17??? That had a total of 5 kids by the time she was 25? Never once been married? Raised those kids largely on her own 'cause her mother, my Aunt, passed my freshman year of college and her father had another 8 kids to manage with his second wife.

Or maybe you mean like my ex gf/former co-worker in high school... The girl who, at 16, found out she was pregnant about a month after I had met her? Same chick that finished HS, went to community college, got an associates, then left Detroit for Kalamazoo to go to WMU with her son in tow.

I know... You mean like my girl who, when I met her, had an 18 month old, still going to college? Who put her self through a private college (Concordia University in A2, MI)

>
>No one said they dont' have options...everyone has an option
>even if it's choosing to live or die...but to refuse to
>recognize the systematic cycle of oppression poorer
>communities live in is flawed and dismissive.

But that's not what's being talked about here. I'm talking about the shit that a person does themselves in addition to the shit already stacked against us. If we know the education system sucks, and we know there is institutional barriers to advancement, common sense would dictate that you do everything in your power to avoid those pitfalls as well as create problems for your self.

What we're talking about are her choices that exacerbate an already difficult situation.


>
>They dont' realize that a child who doesn't have food, doesn't
>do as well as others in school. That even if they do well, the
>education they receive is not as good as middle to upper class
>schools so they are still behind when it comes to standardized
>tests (such as the SATs). That incompetence of the ppl who are
>suppose to help them lead them to now know about other options
>in life...yes there will always be those who are more
>aggressive and will go out and fight for a way out...and there
>are those who fight and end up stuck in the same place...which
>is who most of these kids see, and in the end, they become
>cynical to life.

Who's doubting any of this???


>
>What's crazy is when I did mentor teens, and held a workshop
>on applying for a job and interviewing, many of the kids were
>shocked at some of the things I taught them. One brought his
>grandmother in later that week so she could ask me questions
>and get help. They lived in the projects and she was fed up
>with it but she didn't know what to do...and so I helped...and
>that's what I don't see anyone saying hear...how they can help
>bring up others in the community who may not know as much as
>they know.

I do it. I've been doing it for the last few decades (yes, I've been actively involved in the community since I was a kid thanks to my stepfather). I do get frustrated when I see shit like this 'cause it makes you sit back and wonder if anything you or anyone else trying to help the people if fucked up situation really even matters.

.... Then that one person you gave advice to or something of the sort runs up and tells you how they're doing better. How what you did made a difference. From that, you regain that purpose.

My stepfather is in his 70's now. He finally left his position as the director of a community action group back in Michigan two years ago and even he's starting to question shit. For over 40 years this man held it down in one of Mi's shittiest cities, trying his damnedest to get Black folks out of that cycle. 40+ years later and shit still ain't changed. We spoke about it recently, there were great successes they achieved as a group out there, and I guess if all you managed to do was help one person get out then you've done something... But 40 some odd years later you'd expect our people to be in a better position.

They're not.

And they're still making piss poor decisions even when they have people helping them along the way.