My wife and I went to Wal-Mart yesterday during lunch and we saw two women in hijabs and I tensed the fuck up. The Wal-Mart is a short ride from the shooting. I wanted to leave there and then.

I've always been fairly reasonable on this subject but now that it's hitting me at home I can't help but feel anger toward "them" and not just the shooters. I recognize the myriad issues of logic but I can't shake it so far.

I didn't know any of the victims personally but they are and were my co-workers. I have friend who works with autistic kids from IRC. The shootout happened near my mother mother in laws home. The shooter lived near a friend. If it seems like I feel like that could have been me or friends or family, that's probably the truth. My wife and I are both civil servants. We don't have windows at our desk. Our guards are not armed. The victims are/were fellow SB county employees. This is close enough for my comfort, that's for damn sure.

We are San Bernardino County employees and we closed all but the most necessary services today and tomorrow. It was a relief to have the day off at first but now that I've had some time alone to reflect there's a lot more to sort through than I thought. I'm in Redlands at a cafe Rio and saw an Arab-looking man and actually wondered if he knew the shooter.

I have a friend who absolutely mistrust all Muslims and goes back to some fatwa from like 1918 as his proof. I've always been a counterpoint to his rants but today when he said this only confirmed his suspicions I said nothing. His daughter is the friend who lived near the shooter so I imagine that really added to his fears.

The truth is these fucks were terrorists, but no more than the fuck who shot up planned parenthood or Sandy hook or the Batman movie and yet I don't see a white face and fear him blowing me and my loved one's to bits. I fear him if he's a police officer, but that's another matter I suppose.

I don't think I'm in danger of falling into that anti-muslim hysteria but damn if I don't understand the sentiment a little better today.

A guy was open carrying at the liquor store when I went in Tuesday so I went and pretended to look at some shit in the back of the store (near an emergency exit) until he left even though I damn well knew what I wanted and it would take 15 seconds to pick up and walk to the register. I didn't really think he was about to shoot up the place but I didn't want to be near him and wanted to be near an exit.

I'm choosing to take this post as a confession thursday of sorts about our semi-irrational (or outright irrational) behaviors in the wake of local shooting sprees, so that's mine.

I don't want to foster hysteria or invite overly liberal pc police and that's a strong possibility there. I just wanted to vent my currently irrational feelings and hopefully have some reasonable dialogue and you came through. Kudos.

I think the seeds to a solution may lie somewhere embedded in the acceptance of these irrational fears as irrational fears.

And we all have feelings that we're not proud of.

Better to confront them than internalize hem and give in to prejudice, so far as I can tell.

You have a gun on your hip and trying to have a regular conversation with me? Not gonna happen.
Half of my mind is going to be focused on that gun.

If those dudes are coming in or out the door, I'll wait a minute to go into an establishment. When I went to Arizona and saw everyone carrying openly, I was like WTF is this? Made me very uncomfortable.

kemars/hijab.

It runs pretty deep here. A lot of Philly Black culture has Muslim influences.

I don't have a soft spot but I seen them all the time in Philly and see a few each day in Charlotte.

I'm from Pittsburgh and growing up it was white and black, Italians and Polish. Most of my idler family are real conservative and have old school views on muslims...

but I went to a college with a nice sized Muslim population and been around them damn near 20 years.

ionno.. I really don't view radical muslims like the people I know or knew who are muslim.


it would be like me seeing white people as the Klan since I live down south.

by consistent neutral to positive contact with any type of group, you will have negative reactions to the actions of a few and buy into the public hysteria surrounding a particular 'threat group'

"I feel afraid of black people right now because ______" and actually confront the feeling than just internalize it?

I'm not saying it's a good conclusion to come to but CT seems to be approaching this with almost a contempt for that feeling while still acknowledging the feelings exist and he's noticing them in himself.

It just seems more productive to bring your reactionary emotions and fears into the light to address them than internalizing them.

Maybe that's naive.

I would have an open conversation with someone racist against blacks if they showed a similar contempt for the idea of their feelings. So i think its good that he said it. His post does have a different feeling than truths.

Near Barclays and all the muslim shops on Atlantic avenue. Can hear the chants from the mosque during the day. And see people praying. I've never gotten this feeling and I moved there just a few years after 9/11.

This morning I was in a cab with a muslim driver and I decided not to discuss the shooting with my wife but that was more out of a concern of not making it awkward for everyone.


Anyway, you hit the nail on the head.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I definitely don't discuss anything political with him

We mostly just make fun of the Italian barbers

in full-on burqa (http://i.dawn.com/primary/2014/04/5358f5a683693.jpg?r=179869627). i take it in stride. i see them out and about doing regular stuff.

don't succumb to that fear and allow it to consume you.

you'll see others around you succumbing to theirs. stand strong. b/c allowing that fear to result in unreasonable suspicion of Arab Muslims won't keep you safe. it won't keep us safe. it will just feed mistreatment of Muslims. which could actually result in us being less safe as the mistreatment could rile up and radicalize folks all over the world and right here in the USA. and those radicalized folks might take action against us.

^ i posted this in that big SB shooting post.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>don't succumb to that fear and allow it to consume you.
>
>you'll see others around you succumbing to theirs. stand
>strong. b/c allowing that fear to result in unreasonable
>suspicion of Arab Muslims won't keep you safe. it won't keep
>us safe. it will just feed mistreatment of Muslims. which
>could actually result in us being less safe as the
>mistreatment could rile up and radicalize folks all over the
>world and right here in the USA. and those radicalized folks
>might take action against us.
>
>^ i posted this in that big SB shooting post.

>don't succumb to that fear and allow it to consume you.
>
>you'll see others around you succumbing to theirs. stand
>strong. b/c allowing that fear to result in unreasonable
>suspicion of Arab Muslims won't keep you safe. it won't keep
>us safe. it will just feed mistreatment of Muslims. which
>could actually result in us being less safe as the
>mistreatment could rile up and radicalize folks all over the
>world and right here in the USA. and those radicalized folks
>might take action against us.

to a reasonable place. Stopping the convo just makes it worst. There are plenty of people here to fight bigotry talk. This ain't Stormfront.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

But i hope it stays up

I suppose half of this was pouring out my thoughts on how close to home this was for me in many ways. I think that's what fueled this feeling of.... I dunno.

Mistrust? I mistrust cops as a whole and always have. Probably always will. But this just feels different. I think I want to see some greater denouncement of this by the muslim community yet I haven't even looked around to see if that's occurred.

Again, I think this is a temoorary emotional reaction that will subside within a few days. I don't think I'm on the path of anti-muslim hyster2. I hope that conflict came across correctly.

I suppose half of this was pouring out my thoughts on how close to home this was for me in many ways. I think that's what fueled this feeling of.... I dunno.

Mistrust? I mistrust cops as a whole and always have. Probably always will. But this just feels different. I think I want to see some greater denouncement of this by the muslim community yet I haven't even looked around to see if that's occurred.

Again, I think this is a temoorary emotional reaction that will subside within a few days. I don't think I'm on the path of anti-muslim hyster2. I hope that conflict came across correctly.

>to a reasonable place. Stopping the convo just makes it
>worst. There are plenty of people here to fight bigotry talk.
>This ain't Stormfront.

the other post was deleted because of bigoted rhetoric by its author in the OP. we don't fight bigoted rhetoric here, we simply toss it out.




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

(This was my reply to ThaTruth in the earlier post that got deleted between typing it out and hitting POST, copied and pasted.)

I appreciate that I am able to experience a culture (in whatever ways i can as an outsider) that most people dont understand or even see in their day to day lives. Headwraps, prayer calls, arabic signage everywhere...thats normal life for me. Its weird to think there are so many people in the world who are so scared of it.

nothing any religious zealots do would ever change that

I have dealt with have been the kindest humblest cats I have ever met.

That's one of the coolest thing I get from my understanding of islam, humility is a core tenant (from what I understand) and you see it in alot of muslims.

To be clear I didn't say muslim people are the most humble kindest people because that's another type of stereotyping generalization but my experience still stands.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

But then again, being around so much mainstream Islam, you see a ton of people who have the same casual approach to their religion as you do in Christianity.

People sinning their asses off lol

I knew a girl in college whose Palestinian dad used to have 1 night a month of gambling, drinking, and pork eating. Just because its fun.

>
>I knew a girl in college whose Palestinian dad used to have 1
>night a month of gambling, drinking, and pork eating. Just
>because its fun.

Like they are all equally bad. But just imaging someone chowing down on some pork chops once a month is so funny

One time a woman fully covered on the train made me almost straight up panic. I was aware it was totally nonsensical, but couldn't control the temporary bout of fear.

But I was around the Muslim community in Brooklyn at length and that helped me get over that weird tendency

or really more like exposure is fatal to prejudice.

people use heuristics more than real logic in their day to day thinking. so limited exposure limits perspective.

not to downplay your contribution or insult you in any way, but your experience with Muslims as regular people makes that your normal perspective. In a different community with less exposure that's more difficult. Not to excuse Islamophobes or anything, but where you've come from and what you've seen matters.

I wasnt trying to hold it over anyones head or shame them or something. If you arent around it, you just around it.

I actually dont think much of America even knows that such a place exists. John Q Redstate yelling about the Islamization of America on Facebook would have a proxysmal attack ending in brain asplosion if he walked around East Dearborn for 5 minutes. I feel pretty confidently that the average poster here would be a little weirded out for 5 minutes and then it would be whatever.

>I wasnt trying to hold it over anyones head or shame them or
>something. If you arent around it, you just around it.

No doubt, I didn't think you were.

I feel pretty confidently that the average poster
>here would be a little weirded out for 5 minutes and then it
>would be whatever.

I had an experience like this in Marseille, France, kind of. I was (dumbly, whitely?) trying to ride a bike from Florence, Italy to Pamplona Spain and got pretty sick North of Marseille and couldn't find a hotel or hostel. So I ride south through the city and after what seemed like hours of riding in less and less light through what seemed like probably projects I finally find a hotel and it's a super Muslim area, hotel has a crescent moon and star, al jazeera on the TV, all that shit. I'm so tired and sick I'm hopeful for any place I can lie down, so I get over my apprehensiveness. It wasn't a great hotel by any means and the people working there seemed surprised at my appearance (lone American in full bike gear, at night, they had every right to be surprised) but nobody made me feel anything less than welcome.

I was definitely in heightened awareness mode for a little while at the beginning (which I was on a lot anyway, alone in foreign countries on a bike) but there's no reason to keep that up when you start realizing the people who feel foreign to you intend you no ill or harm.

And affraid of Muslims. You done drank the Kool Aid.

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

when I would see citizens dressed in traditional muslim garments

I felt sorry for them imagining all of the BS that they suddenly were probably dealing with

suspicion
gleering eyes
and probably outright harrassment

when it was all good just a week ago

from the little bit of info that's been provided to date

IDK how people are making the entire jump to blaming Islam

dude was born here.

there is some talk of a recent trip to Pakistan, but w/o more details, it just sounds like dude went postal, IMO.

anyway

I wish people in this country were as focused on fixing the mass shooting problem as they are on blaming Islam.

or at least be consistent and blame radical christianity when people shoot up churches and PP

>when I would see citizens dressed in traditional muslim
>garments
>
>I felt sorry for them imagining all of the BS that they
>suddenly were probably dealing with
>
>suspicion
>gleering eyes
>and probably outright harrassment
>
>from the little bit of info that's been provided to date
>
>IDK how people are making the entire jump to blaming Islam
>
>dude was born here.
>
>there is some talk of a recent trip to Pakistan, but w/o more
>details, it just sounds like dude went postal, IMO.
>
>anyway
>
>I wish people in this country were as focused on fixing the
>mass shooting problem as they are on blaming Islam.
>
>or at least be consistent and blame radical christianity when
>people shoot up churches and PP


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but the wife riding shotgun smells like some radical shit.

this country will never go at radical Christianity tho..

we need a boogie man and it will never be a white male.

Eventually white men will be the boogie men if we continue down the road we're on and I'd bet the farm we will continue on it.

We were renting a crib from a Lebanese family, nice folks, really down to earth.

9/11 happened. During the weeks afterwards, anti Middle Eastern/Muslim sentiment was running high, particularly in SE Michigan. Acts of violence had been reported.

My landlord fled the country... Like, dude bailed and flew back to Lebanon, but left the family here. His brother dyed his hair blond in an attempt to blend in with white folks. The wives and kids largely stayed home though I was told by his brother that they allowed the wives and older girls to abandon their hijabs when going out in public in an attempt to blend in.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

When shook idiots started attacking gurdwaras and Sikhs, some Punjabi dudes starting going out without their turbans


Apparently Americans are too stupid to know the difference

At least not from what my mom told me at the time

I was in ATL then

>At least not from what my mom told me at the time
>
>I was in ATL then

not many, but enough to make them believe that the threat of it everywhere.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

It's in the air so it's hard not to absorb it by osmosis. You've already acknowledge it and and know that its wrong to feel that way. You're already doing better than half the country by admitting that. Just work on the shit best you can and try to resist.

___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

I wonder how someone will fuck it up

I think one is plainly obvious. I'll ignore that one if it happens.

that being said, I don't find myself in public spaces much these days and I'll be avoiding the mall like the plague again this holiday season. At work if I hear gunshots I plan to hit the floor and GTFO as fast as possible and I keep trying to save enough paper so that I can put this place behind me for good, but hate muslims? Nah -- they aren't the enemy, it's whoever is financing the destruction of their region.

is what I hear from all my muslim homies. It's a trip but since a lot of these senseless idiotic things have been going on, I have been meeting more and more muslims. Coming up to me like "yo, I finally understand what you go through in america". Really trips me out

my bases covered.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>

.

>

the problem is muslim extremists number in the 10s of millions globally
and their recruitment is effective across borders,education levels, and wealth segments

muslim extremist.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

that's waaaay too high

and how many personnel there are. Then consider how screwed the whole world would be if extremists actually numbered that many. North Korea had about 1 million and no-one was screwing with them even before they went nuclear.

if you believe any of the polls it's probably closer to 100s of millions
i'm not willing to go that far though
but yea anything less than moderate is an issue to me
and this applies to all religions

how many Palestinians would see them as warriors for the right side? Empathize with or even lionize them?

I don't agree with Bill Maher on all this stuff but he had some crazy numbers one time. A survey of Muslim countries revealed that a shocking number (to us) of people believed apostasy should be punishable by death. That's extremism and it's silly to expect anything less from people who are uneducated about he west and live under theocracies.

EDIT: This might be it http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/?beta=true&utm_expid=53098246-2.Lly4CFSVQG2lphsg-KopIg.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Hiroshima or Nagasaki would all the people who agreed with that be correctly identified as Extremist?

Would all the Americans who agreed with torturing by the CIA would all those people be extremist?




>how many Palestinians would see them as warriors for the
>right side? Empathize with or even lionize them?
>
>I don't agree with Bill Maher on all this stuff but he had
>some crazy numbers one time. A survey of Muslim countries
>revealed that a shocking number (to us) of people believed
>apostasy should be punishable by death. That's extremism and
>it's silly to expect anything less from people who are
>uneducated about he west and live under theocracies.
>
>EDIT: This might be it
>http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/?beta=true&utm_expid=53098246-2.Lly4CFSVQG2lphsg-KopIg.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Altho anyone supporting personal torture is probably an extremist in one direction or another

Their extremism is extreme on our end but the opposite isn't true. Shouldn't that say something?

If only the Arab spring was a real thing that happened and these people could be free to advance.

>Their extremism is extreme on our end but the opposite isn't
>true. Shouldn't that say something?
>
>If only the Arab spring was a real thing that happened and
>these people could be free to advance.

this is a dumb ass post

So as long as there are Israeli settlements forcibly relocating Palestinians into internment, Paleatinians will continue to support guerilla action against Israel and those that support them.

Also worth mentioning that Palestinians use suicide bombing as an answer to having modern rockets fired at them.

>Also worth mentioning that Palestinians use suicide bombing as
>an answer to having modern rockets fired at them.

when's the last time you heard of a Palestinian suicide bomber ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

Especially if followed up by a US govt as interested in punishing Israeli aggression as they are about punishing Islamic terrorism

could be the walk-back from Israel

Muslims are cool and don't deserve any hate they get. CT, at least you're open, honest, and willing to confront the issues you have. It doesn't seem like you've gone all right wing on muslims.

The gun toting christian extremists are the ones I'm worried about. Fuckers have shot up two establishments this year near me and that has me worried. Took down a state building and a fast food spot. One of these events involved a murder suicide. The other was a pissed off employee. That guy spouting those talking points that has access to weapons and training is the same one I'm weary of all the time.

In all honesty, I'm worried about getting gunned down by a reckless policer officer for jaywalking than I am muslims. My ready to die hierachy of needs goes police officer then far right gun toting extremist. Everyone else is cool.

wit that bein said, yesterday it was cops all over the place leavin my building. I always grill cops but I caught myself lookin at this pig for fake permission to jaywalk smh.

Man, I walked anyway but bruh, I had to check myself.

I know Killer Mike siced dudes head but I can't vibe wit him doin all this for the gram. To me it comes off faker than a 7 dollar bill.

https://www.instagram.com/tnorman23/

Whites. Blacks. Americans. Theres extremists in all of those categories who take it too far. I have problems with all of them. Some live on this site. *shrugs*

The idea is whether or not someone following normal Islamic traditions plays on your fear of extremism

Could you look at a woman covered from head to toe in customary attire and determine if she were extremist? Would it affect the way you treat her? How much wpuld your visceral reaction guide your mind?

I think those are the relevant questions here

I live in Brampton. Google it. Brown out numbers white here. We have old white racists passing out flyers about minorities taking over. I see people covered head to toe all the time. Im not phased by it.

However, on my way from Chicago a few months ago I see a white man with a vest with all these racist patches sewed to it about muslims, blacks, and Obama and pro gun shit. Was I afraid? Nope, but I def watched out for his stupid ass more than I would anyone else. Why? because he was a pro white, pro gun, christian, pro american extremist.

I got a muslim ass name even though I'm non-religious

In College I got cool with a few different muslim cats from India. They were cool as shit and even thought it was never explicitly stated, there was certain bond there on some people of color shit. They didn't hate us cause we black or stereotype us or nothing; in fact they looked out for my manager when the white boss did do that shit.

I wish I would profile muslim people as a black man with a muslim ass name... Having my own self would be the next step in that line of thinking, imo

GTFOH.....you have much more shit to ACTUALLY WORRY about on a daily basis than some random fkng muslims.... you got EVERY fkng NEO NAZI group in california planted in the IE..plus tons of stupid bloods and crips and eses and shit...

When I was interviewing with Google, NeoPets, and the like while considering relocating to SoCal, we read about IE and found that it's pretty much overrun with racists and assorted other idiots.


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

South-Central California basically.

San Bernardino County (which is massive) encompasses a lot of it.

riverside/ontario ca area

______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/Gj5Wy56.jpg

I dunno about now but it was at or near the top of the murder rate list for fucking ever.

This is a pretty poor area. A lot of drugs and a poor job market plus it's a major hub for sex trafficking.

I've never lived anywhere else but this is a pretty rough place overall.

> A lot of drugs and a poor job
>market plus it's a major hub for sex trafficking.

you also include Palm Springs, DHS, Cathedral City, etc and there's an assload of meth running out that way.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>GTFOH.....you have much more shit to ACTUALLY WORRY about on
>a daily basis than some random fkng muslims.... you got EVERY
>fkng NEO NAZI group in california planted in the IE..plus tons
>of stupid bloods and crips and eses and shit...

Yes. I'm well aware. I've had particular trouble with the eses. I've been jumped more times than I can count. You forgot to add bikers. I once kicked two Vagos out of my cab. Never had any trouble whatsoever with black gangs though. The Nazis seem to be more out on Temecula though. They used to be heavy on Fontana and Yucaipa but I haven't seen any in recent years.

So I've been here all my life and hear you.

This is different. Much different. And this emotional reaction will pass.

>I once kicked two Vagos out of my cab.

they're popping up more and more around my way. most of them are veteranos from local gangs. they pretty much just do their own thing

I kicked a lot of people out so it was nothing to me to be honest. Supposedly I kicked out more people in 5 months than The dispatcher could recall anyone doing.

I never had any run ins with them after. I just watched my ads and didn't go to calls that gave me red flags.

hahaha yeah i forgot biker gangs and shit...fk anywhere they have a yearly nascar race..i'm good...lol

I was born and raised in Pomona, which is largely Hispanic. Claremont, Upland, Ontario, Chino, La Verne, etc, are all very nice cities. It's not until you really get to SB and Highland that you do get Aryan fucks, maybe even some in Fontana, but west of the 15? nah, not like that at all.

Elsinore, Yucaipa, etc.

While it's true that Chino,Upland,Ontario,Rancho,and Claremont are practically night and day by comarison. Even nicer cities out this way like Temecula and Murrieta have a strong white supremacist presence. Redlands is a nice community in the midst of it all but theres much more fuckery than SB in the IE.

see them though.

I sure would hate to be one right now.

im not up on my muslim knowledge but i know its more of em walking around in street clothes than traditional garb.

i guess it's all very abstract for me, because it's never even been close to hitting home, so it's not something i feel will ever happen to me. but hearing the rhetoric after paris, and now during this, who knows what we're capable of as a society when fear, anger, and nativism start to dominate.

so seeing a family at the store, or women in hijabs, especially in times like these, i can't help but at admire the hell out of them, knowing how most of the public perceives them, even moreso if they have children.

but there are also times i find myself more on Maher's side in some theses debates about islam, but again, that's abstract, and it's not a subject I claim to any kind of great knowledge of, or any kind of set-in-stone opinions about

That's sort of the crux of this post.

Apparently he met her online, flew over there and brought her back on a k-1 fiancee visa
FWIW the Gulf Arabs treat their South Asian population worse than dog shit
and we all know the last place a woman wants to be is in Saudi

The more I think about what's being reported the less sense this makes

What happened in S.B. was horrific. The couple who committed that heinous act got what they deserved, but I would never put their actions on a whole religion nor its worshippers. My father and ex step mom are Muslims. I never heard of them having extremist views. Every Muslim I met was polite, intelligent, peaceful and welcoming.

I believe that what happened in S.B. had more do do with workplace drama than religious extremism. There are many people who mistreat subordinates and fellow co- workers. Hostility within the workplace ia a real thing and I think that was the main reason why that couple killed those people at the holiday party.

reports are coming out of dude having contact with people on our terror list.

no damn way a wife and husband gear up over workplace drama.

they had pipe bombs attached to a remote control car, that's some extra shit.

>reports are coming out of dude having contact with people on
>our terror list.
>
>no damn way a wife and husband gear up over workplace drama.
>
>they had pipe bombs attached to a remote control car, that's
>some extra shit.
>
>
I am not buying that the couple murked all of those people just in the name of Islam or Isis. I believe that they had connections to extremists, but I definitely believe that workplace drama was at least half of the issue.

People love to downplay hostile work environments, but forget that the term "going postal" didn't just magically appear. I think he had issues with his collegues, supervisors, etc over a period of time and attending the holiday party was the straw that broke the camel's back. He and his wife, I believe had planned on killing people at the job for a while and they ended up doing such.

details arising make it pretty clear they were into some shit, or likely part of something terrorist related. Who knows, maybe peeps at work pissed him off and he decided to make them the target instead. But there's way more to this than just workplace violence

>details arising make it pretty clear they were into some
>shit, or likely part of something terrorist related. Who
>knows, maybe peeps at work pissed him off and he decided to
>make them the target instead. But there's way more to this
>than just workplace violence

How do you know what dude went through at his job? I never said that the couple did not have radical and extremist views, but I will not accept that they killed those people only in the name of Islam. I believe the massacre was mixed with extremist religious beliefs AND personal beef at the workplace.

People get dogged out at work all the time and every now and then, some people resort to mass murders in order to solve their problem. I makes no sense to just dismiss the possibility that the guy had no work related issues. He could have easily chose other places in the area if they wanted to kill a bunch of people in the name of religion. Hell, he could have went to San Manuel Casino in Highland and murked hundreds of people or instance or hit up restaurant row which is near the the area where those people were killed.

I didn't say work was a non-factor, I said there's clearly more there. I don't disagree that this is some kind of hybrid of extremist views, and anger at his co-workers. I don't think he just shot up his job because, Islam.

>I didn't say work was a non-factor, I said there's clearly
>more there. I don't disagree that this is some kind of hybrid
>of extremist views, and anger at his co-workers. I don't think
>he just shot up his job because, Islam.
>
Obviously, there is more to the story. But, I refuse to believe dude and his wife were on a holy war crusade when they murdered all of those people.

I don't trust white media nor their fearing ring tactics.

I think work was the target because he hated some people at the job.

But there was definitely a sprinkle of radical dust on these 2.

99.9% of wives dont want their husband to fuck up the money...

Do you think everyone who goes postal kill the same way? Next, who goes to work and kill fellow co-workers for non work related issues?

I never said that the dude wasn't involved or affiliated with any extremist religious groups. He very well could have had contact with the Taliban, Al Qaeda and Isis while in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. However, I refuse to believe that his work environment was peaches and cream and he just decided to randomly shoot up a work holiday party because of some religious crusade against the "infidels".

The aforementioned scenario is what the media want people to believe. But, I believe he did not like some people at his job based in some negative encounters during his 5 year tenure at the job. I also believe that he deliberately planned to chip some co workers and once he got into it with someone at the party, it gave him the reason to carry out his planned attack and put in work. His actions was terroristic and horrific, but I believe that he had disdain for his co-workers and worked in a hostile work environment.

but it seems like all the first reports said he left the party angry and it was work related...

but the amount of weapons and his wife by his side seems to suggest there was more at play.

sounds like he was pissed off at work and his wife brought that Saudi logic back with her.. "well, if you gonna go hard, GO HARD"

I think most of these mass shooter tend to have quite a few guns.

I'd wager all mass killers are terrorists, it's their motivation for committing acts of terror that should be given attention. Islamic terrorists, Police Terrorists, Government Terrorists, etc.

Extremists on the news. I don't know if the media chooses not to report it or they don't do it aside from a tweet here or there. But Muslims definitely have a pr problem. I know they're not monolithic, I know they shouldn't have to speak for extremists, etc etc. I know ppl shouldn't paint all Muslims with a broad brush. But the optics of not having a Muslim leader on the news condemning this violence and calling on young Muslims to not get involved in these types of groups is a bad look for them.

How well those condemnations are publicized to the masses is another story, but they're doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZgUWOpLg20

and when they do this is how the right-wing respond:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/12/03/right-wing-media-attack-cair-for-quickly-denoun/207228

on the news and in the media great.

but it's not a myth, it's just reality that you don't see them on the news for whatever reason speaking out.

But I'm telling you that it is happening loudly and clearly from so many communities and prominent leaders across the US.

Who controls the media? Not Muslims.

Why doesn't it make it to the news? I have no good answer. Would it change the narrative or the fear tactics that the media loves to perpetuate?

It's out there if you go look for it. That's at least one equalizing factor. It may not get airplay, but you can find it if you want to look for it.

Bobby Shmurda
___________________________________________________________


DJTB YOMM

Was there for a couple of years. Some of THE nicest people ive ever met in my life. I used to have to avoid walking in on someone eating because they would ALWAYS offer me some of their meal, EVERY single time. Id refuse and theyd insist. If they had a cookie, just one cookie they would offer it to me. Polite, generous, funny, nice. One guy gave me a handmade rug from Mecca before i left, and i only really met him two or three times.

So i have no fear whatsoever of Arab Americans or Muslims and i really feel it depends on your life experience. There are Muslims all over the University i go to here in Jacksonville, even a Muslims Student Union. Id recommend going to a local mosque and talking to them about it. May change your mind or make you feel more at ease.

We had a huge push to bring in a union to replace our association last year. That push failed.

I don't know what bargaining unit he was in but all but one wound up rolling with the union and taking what amounted to a bribe of $1,750 and a very small equities increase.

Many who got the equities increase were denied their annual step increase because they received the equity increase-which, again, wasn't much. This was a pretty big issue that on my recently saw some resolution.

This year the association brought in the Teamsters and now we are affiliated with them. The current ballot has a 7% increase across The board for all bargaining units, however that 7% is misleading as fuck as it is doled out in two 1% increments in December of this year and I think July of next year, with small increments until 2018. This doesn't even keep up with inflation and is a fucking joke especially in light of the increase in dues as a result of the Teamster affiliation and a increase in insurance premiums as part of the same proposal.


Each new contract has become increasingly worse than the last for about a decade, with step increases getting cut in half and spread out over twice the time, and numerous minor benefits have been cut down as well.

I don't think this was the motivation here but there was a rumor circulating yesterday that this was a Teamster party but I have not been able to confirm that. Also, other information that has come out certainly paints a picture of affiliation with organized terror groups at a minimum.

Especially with a group that large.

There are people in the world who are totally fucked and they run the full range of identity.

"It doesn't help that you never see Black leaders condemning
Black violence on the news. I don't know if the media chooses not to report it or they don't do it aside from a tweet here or there. But Black people definitely have a pr problem. I know they're not monolithic, I know they shouldn't have to speak for other black people, etc etc. I know ppl shouldn't paint all Black people with a broad brush. But the optics of not having a Black leader on the news condemning this violence and calling on young black people to not get involved in these types of groups is a bad look for them.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

it is the same argument people make with blacks, latinos, etc all the time.

i once had a guy, smart guy and very wealthy, who said he agreed with something mark cuban said and that if he sees a guy with a hoody and a bunch of tats he thinks differently than seeing someone in a three-piece suit. he said emphatically AND THAT'S OK!

i told him, yeah, i see them differently, too. the guy in the hoodie might take my wallet and the guy in the suit might take my whole life's savings.

that was just an ice breaker but i went on to say that that is a function of his environment. he grew up in a small town in canada and once he left he lived a life of fame, wealth and privilege as a professional athlete and later a broadcaster. conversely i grew up in a lower-middle-class neighborhood with lots of people who wore baggy clothes and had tats. if i crossed the street every time i saw someone like that, i'd be playing frogger all day. you learn to discern the *real* signs of risk and not to alienate yourself from someone just based on something so trivial.

same thing here. i am all for rooting out violent people and jihadists but to paint a billion-plus people with that brush is obviously wildly inaccurate. if every muslim or even a simple majority were of that mind, they'd have an army of hundreds of millions.

black people realized nobody was going to stand up for us but us a long time ago and our image has come a long way because of it.

any sort of coherent sense.


>black people realized nobody was going to stand up for us but
>us a long time ago and our image has come a long way because
>of it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

are represented in the media as anything but terrorists and that they have groups like the naacp and civil rights leaders advocating for them like black people. if you want to believe that. that's cool. i don't have time to argue with you. you must be watching some other channel or reading some other paper nobody else is reading. maybe in your head. you can also pretend black leaders never condemn black violence or there aren't anti-gang, anti-violence groups in every city. it's cool.

I'm good now. I think the combination of a little time, releasing this feeling into the ether, and seeing some of that same reaction from others helped me over the bill with the quickness

And you always have an interesting opinion to offer up.

I think it took some bravery to come clean about this....and the difference between you and an islamaphobic asshole would be that the latter doesn't attempt to analyze or deconstruct his gut reaction. So I think it's commendable to cop to having these feelings....and also to have enough sense to question them.

How many muslims do you interact with? Is it somewhat uncommon to see women in a niqab or burka where you live? Like others have said....exposure is key. When I take my family up to northern ontario we get alot of double-takes and weird vibes. People up there probably only see black people in movies and rap videos for the most part.

Not sure if this suggestion sounds too corny....but it might be a worthwhile exercise to kinda force yourself to engage with a muslim if this same reaction happened again. Talk to them about the weather. Make small talk. This type of irrational fear is based on dehumanizing. By engaging in small talk....you force yourself to humanize them. It might work to force yourself into seeing them as individuals again instead of representatives or symbols. Cause really that's what it is right? That person became a symbol to you rather than a particular, specific person with their own set of interweaving characteristics and personality traits....of which religion is only one.

>And you always have an interesting opinion to offer up.
>
>I think it took some bravery to come clean about this....and
>the difference between you and an islamaphobic asshole would
>be that the latter doesn't attempt to analyze or deconstruct
>his gut reaction. So I think it's commendable to cop to
>having these feelings....and also to have enough sense to
>question them.

Yeah that last one is the one that I think represents the great divide in these issues.

>How many muslims do you interact with? Is it somewhat
>uncommon to see women in a niqab or burka where you live?

Nah. It's not, like, constant or anything but I see it often enough. I even have- wait for it, groan, I know, lol- a friend. A former coworker in fact who converted and started showing up to work in her burka. I see it often enough. It just never occurred to me to think twice when I saw it until Wednesday.


>Not sure if this suggestion sounds too corny....but it might
>be a worthwhile exercise to kinda force yourself to engage
>with a muslim if this same reaction happened again.

I think if this persists- and I don't think it will, but I digress- I plan on further educating myself to mainstream Muslim culture in America. I don't know enough about the differences between the major sects, for example, to understand the broader values of Muslims in America.

Talk to
>them about the weather. Make small talk. This type of
>irrational fear is based on dehumanizing. By engaging in
>small talk....you force yourself to humanize them. It might
>work to force yourself into seeing them as individuals again
>instead of representatives or symbols. Cause really that's
>what it is right? That person became a symbol to you rather
>than a particular, specific person with their own set of
>interweaving characteristics and personality traits....of
>which religion is only one.

Well, I can compare it to my issue with Cholos. I've lost count of the number of times I've been attacked. Jumped. Not Mexicans. Cholos. Gangsters. I can spot the difference. Feel it, even. I know the real deal from a punk kid. Generally speaking, I've never had an issue with anyone who was about shit. These cats saved their balls for enemies. Other gangsters. They don't fuck with you unless you disrespect them and if you fuck up and disrespect in some trivial way, these dudes will call you out on your fuck up. You man up, own your offense, and apologize and you're good.

A perfect example is a dude named Butter I came across when I was a teenager. Older dude, early twenties maybe. I knew who he was but never directly interacted with him. Anyhow I bought the wrong drink at a liquor store and the asshole wouldn't let me exchange it. I was mad and threw it into the trash can, except I overshot it and it landed by his foot. He hit me with "Ay homie, you trying to get fucked up today? You almost hit me and that would have fucked up my shoes if it would have opened." I apologized but he was still kind of heated. I said look, I said sorry, I bought the wrong drink and dude wouldn't let me do an exchange. He understood why I threw it like I did and asked what I was trying to get and I told him and he actually bought me a new drink. He busted my balls since it was a cherry Coke but h recognized me from then on and every time he's seen me since he's called me Cherry.

Punk kids trying to prove how down they were? Those were a dime a dozen and I'd wind up getting jumped for everything from an obvious b-boy style piece on my backpack to having a black eye and a broken hand which somehow meant I wanted to fight all people at all times.

Anyhow, I see these people and judge them differently based on little things i pick up on that tell me where they fall into that hierarchy. I legitimately fear the younger punks and dudes that go out of their way to mad dog, especially now having a family, because I've been targeted by these fools before and know how long that shit can drag on. They really don't give a fuck whereas the more standup guys actually abide by a code.

Without all that interaction, negative and positive, I may never have learned to spot the subtleties that made one sect different from the other.

Totally brought out a kind of anger / sadness out. I can understand with your proximity to this whole tragedy your reaction would be exponentially stronger.

Keep in mind, the clothes someone wears has absolutely no bearing on how they practice their religion and is only an indicator of what clothes they chose to wear.

I know Muslims that wear hijab, or have long beards and wear kufi and regularly drink and go to clubs/strip clubs, etc. Lots of people wear no traditional clothing and are the most pious and knowledgeable people out there.

It's hard, as a Muslim, to have some dickheads putting these images in folks minds. Especially here, in the US. It's one thing when it's "over there", but when people start thinking - oh what about my neighbors? Do I need to be afraid of them?

The reality, is that you have a higher risk of dying in a car accident on your way to/from work. Yet, people continue living their lives and be as safe as they can be.

That's about all you can do. Live your life and be safe.

You can never stop an individual from killing, if they aren't advertising it online, ahead of time. Regardless of their beliefs or race.

How do you stop kids from fighting at school? You can't.
How do you stop corner store stick-ups? You can't.
Etc.

People are going to keep being people.

http://independencenews.net/ar/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/CVRtOjeUYAAXM1o.jpg

http://scallywagandvagabond.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Screen-Shot-2015-12-03-at-2.06.22-AM.png


---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

There could be a chance she's working with others who may only know her perhaps by a code name or if this isn't an attack they were ordered to carry out then you don't want those they were in contact with to be aware that you have a link to them.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2455936.1449275257!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/article-shooter-1204.jpg

to see her...

You murder 14 people you forfeit all respect for your chosen personal practices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2tfhPCehnA


Substitute candles for your thoughts and the drank for the news and that's u. Hhahaha.

open weapons and people who may or may not be emotionally equipped to handle that?

Those people arent even really acting like dicks and they still end up killing people.

Plus obviously the ones that do act like dicks

There's far more empirical evidence for that.

specifically in Dearborn, MI, where a Christian lives with a Muslim couple. I played the dvd to my south LA students after the Paris attacks, and with the San Bernardino attacks they are watching the discrimination play out with critical eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vwP0B_2jO8&list=PLYmtFDr3DeHHG9FqB3BJfAOeW3XpEaAPy&index=9

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=308_1174869924

http://muslimobserver.com/30-days-four-years-later/

you may be experiencing distress because of obsessive thoughts.

Like SimplyHannah said, at least you are aware of your biases creeping into your conscious thoughts which cause you distress. That awareness definitely makes you more conscious of the harmful consequences that acting on those fears would cause to innocent people.

As strong as many of us who post here are, we're not wholly immune to a culture that is full of conscious and latent expressions of distrust and in some cases overt anger towards Arabs and Muslims and other minority groups. It's easy to become psychologically riddled by ignorance and simply isn't your fault that these biases are overwhelming you or isn't who you are.

I wouldn't be tough on yourself, because 1.) It won't get at the root of your issue and 2.) you are simply human.

That being said, I would recommend either talking to a counselor (religious or otherwise) and asking him or her about cognitive behavioral therapy. The therapist could offer techniques to 'stop' your mind from reacting in a way to these situations in a way that is keeping with your character and alleviates the stress to yourself.

Not to steer the post towards myself, but I've suffered from thoughts and subtle, subconscious reactions that you described for a number of years and talking with a counselor really helped with those feelings.

My issues dealt with a generalized fear that I had of a group of people that was based upon a number of bad experiences. But over time, I was able to admit and express my anxieties to others, including a counselor, and that decreased the anxiety significantly.

The fears were real, but after I was able to maintain better boundaries and felt comfortable expressing anxieties to people of that group, my sense of calm became more natural and stable.

If you want to check out CBT on your own, I would recommend 'Feeling Good' by David Burns. Or there's another book called 'Feeding Your Demons' that's effective as well.

I'm not sure where you're coming from on the obsessive thoughts portion so I'd like you to expound on that part a bit.

Also, I'm pretty much over this issue and don't feel or anticipate any lingering issues going forward.

I think CBT may work for my general inability to let things go though, since I treat petty missives the same way I do more severe personal attacks.

For instance, if I was walking around the city and I saw a person who appeared gay or simply was a well-cultured man, a voice in my head would start dropping the f-bomb.

Or if I were walking around a man who was Latino I would think of a slur in my head.

No matter what the label, it was like there was a disconnect in my mind where the voice would talk without any sense of the harm the effects of my disrespect, if I ever spooke with the person, might cause. So I would immediately tense up and if the encounter happened where I did have to talk, like a check out line or on a bus, I would have a mild panic attack.

I tried mindfulness training and breathing techniques and they worked on and off, I simply couldn't train my brain to stop saying them. But seeing a therapist and voicing the terms involved helped for whatever reason. I guess it was like spitting up phlegm in the toilet. I had to get the sickness out.

Also, writing in a journal about the base cause, which in my case is a fear blown out to irrationality that the other person might harm me. After my anxiety lessened and I felt I could be vulnerable if I felt anxious by saying, 'Hey. I'm suffering from an anxiety attack. Do you mind if we cut our conversation short.'

In the end, I needed to know that I could appeal to the different groups as people and not view them with the same fear of what is unknown that much of the country views gays or Latino(a)s or in this case Muslims.

My brain tends to soak up social cues, even the bad ones, so that's likely where the negative misunderstandings of people with different labels than the ones I identify with.

It sounds like your mind ruminates when someone wrongs you. It basically means that your mind 'overthinks' and ends up rubbing the wound deeper into your psyche. The book 'Feeling Good' offers some CBT that would help with that, IIRC.

>It sounds like your mind ruminates when someone wrongs you. It
>basically means that your mind 'overthinks' and ends up
>rubbing the wound deeper into your psyche. The book 'Feeling
>Good' offers some CBT that would help with that, IIRC.

Oh yeah. That's me down to a t. Generally it's at its worse after repeated offenses. I was extremely forgiving until, say, 20. Now it's an increasingly short leash before I write someone off.

Regional Secretary in my office. Her name was Yvette Velasco and she was our secretary's youngest sibling.

I feel disgusted and angry all over again. Not at Muslims or Islam, but at the shooters.

I know you are only being honest but there are ALL KINDS of Muslims in the world and we are peaceful, Allah loving people. There is no reason to fear us, regardless how we are dressed. America is doing this to us, not our religion. Please, see past the smoke screen and understand that Muslims are not terrorists... terrorists are.

For the record, I was good after a couple of days and stated that I was over this issue in a couple of posts. That doesn’t change the shock of the OP, but it is what it is. It was an irrational, emotionally charged feeling with no real foundation beyond an additional burst of anger and frustration stemming from my proximity to the situation. That's not an excuse. It's just what was.

I have a close friend- matron of honor at my wedding, actually- who is on call for the next 6 months as a counselor to the families and survivors. I’ll be spending the next three days of work assigned to an outreach for the families and survivors. These were my coworkers as public service employees for SB county and one of those who died is the sister of a coworker in my office. A lot of us have been threatened over the years and suddenly those threats are taken far more seriously than ever before and frankly I pity the next guy to wig out and tell us he’s gonna get us or something because the cops will be called and they’ll probably throw the book at him.

So that proximity, anger, frustration, fear, etc left me a little tense in the presence of two muslims and people with middle eastern “features”, I guess is the best description. That doesn’t excuse my irrational anger or fear and the fact that said anger and fear was fleeting doesn’t make it acceptable. For me this post wasn’t just about being honest and venting, but releasing it. If I posted this on facebook I’d get a few level headed folks that would point out how ridiculous it was to react that way but I’d also get a barrage of YEAH! MURICA! KILL THOSE GOAT FUCKERS. Hell I see those as it is.

I posted this here because I know there are Muslims here, though with few exceptions I wasn’t sure who was who exactly. I posted this here because I was open to being called out on the irrationality of it all. I posted this here because sense and reason was far more likely to carry the day. I also posted this here for accountability purposes, which wouldn’t come in other places due to the swarm of cosigns it would generate.

I did fear an immediate and fierce backlash, however I was fortunate to articulate myself in a way that the vast majority of people understood the heart of my dilemma, which was that this isn’t a thought or feeling that I am accustomed to, didn’t like, didn’t think would continue, yet really needed to grapple with.

Perhaps these are empty platitudes but I am grieved to know that this hurt you- or anyone else, for that matter- because I know that this was likely just another in a long line of bitter, angry, irrational emotions you must see more and more frequently. It’s not good, it’s not acceptable, and it’s not to be tolerated. I can control how I react to my emotions but I can’t really control that initial emotional reaction. I can’t take back what I felt though perhaps it would have been better to grapple with this on my own time in my own thoughts.

Again, I’m truly sorry.

this shit has really broken ALL deliverable dates.


does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

CON...
SPIRACY!!!!!


First the shooters were reported to be 3 large white males in tactical gear.

Now, we are supposed to forget that shit, and believe that two brown folks who practice radical islam did the shit.

Truth: They didn't want the country to be worried about "homegrown terrorist". Especially since they had caucasian features. So what they did was put two brown folks as scapegoats, kill them, and put the blame on them. Captured the real shooters and put them in a psych ward, that way Radical Islam is the enemy and not Pete H. Whitely and Sons.

The only reason the President is going along with this is because a) it makes more of a case for his campaign against ISIL, b) I think they are keeping him out of the loop as to what really happened, c) because there has been radicals on US soil so its believable, especially after the paris bombing.

Stay Woke People!

P.S. I'm not really into conspiracy theories, but I saw this one play out on tv and the net myself. I just can't go with the bait and switch. Something is wrong with this situation.

>First the shooters were reported to be 3 large white males in
>tactical gear.

No. ONE person said that. She also said they were tall and athletic. She was also looking down from the second story.

>Now, we are supposed to forget that shit, and believe that two
>brown folks who practice radical islam did the shit.

Interested fact: that same woman reported they were wearing the same tactical gear that these two were actually wearing, and they were driving the same SUV EVERYONE AND THEIR MOMMA SAID THEY LEFT IN.

THEY WERE ALSO ARMED TO THE TEETH.

Yeah, they just happened to be rolling along in tactical gear in the same SUV with assault weapons, probably out for an afternoon tea and some Baskin Robbins and big bad whitey showed up to murk them. Or big bad whitey put them in all that gear and SUV and forced them to drive? I dunno.

>Truth: They didn't want the country to be worried about
>"homegrown terrorist". Especially since they had caucasian
>features. So what they did was put two brown folks as
>scapegoats, kill them, and put the blame on them. Captured
>the real shooters and put them in a psych ward, that way
>Radical Islam is the enemy and not Pete H. Whitely and Sons.

Wait.. so that IS your theory? Wow. Holy shit.

>The only reason the President is going along with this is
>because a) it makes more of a case for his campaign against
>ISIL, b) I think they are keeping him out of the loop as to
>what really happened, c) because there has been radicals on
>US soil so its believable, especially after the paris bombing.
>
>
>Stay Woke People!
Take off the tin foil, people.

>P.S. I'm not really into conspiracy theories, but I saw this
>one play out on tv and the net myself. I just can't go with
>the bait and switch. Something is wrong with this situation.

Not “into” them but jump right on one with no actual legs that’s dependent entirely upon the word of one witness and a shit ton of imagination.

Planned Parenthood Part 2. But then it started to become clear after the 2nd or 3rd day that it wasn't.

ONE DAY THEY REPORT ONE THING (WITH SEEMINGLY CLEAR FACTS) NEXT DAY NEW PEOPLE FITTING ALREADY PROPOSED AGENDA. I AM SORRY FOR THOSE WHO PERISHED, BUT WHY CAN'T THINGS BE LESS CLEAR THAN WHAT IS REPORTED? WE ALREADY KNOW WE ARE SPOON-FED INFORMATION (TRUE OR OTHERWISE) ON A DAILY BASIS. I CAN'T SIMPLY BELIEVE THE NEWS BECAUSE THEY SAY IT IS SO. IN THIS DAY AND AGE EYE-WITNESSES ARE BETTER THAT REPORTERS.

Group A wanted another crazy white dude. I think a lot of people just expected this because, well, the profile fit the basic nature of the crime.

Group B wanted anyone but and Islamic radicals fit the bill pretty well.

>ONE DAY THEY REPORT ONE THING (WITH SEEMINGLY CLEAR FACTS)
>NEXT DAY NEW PEOPLE FITTING ALREADY PROPOSED AGENDA.

Well the two that were shot were shot and identified on the same day. The gear and the SUV are the same as what was reported by eye witnesses. The initial identification of “white males” by a couple of people is….. Interesting. I did come across a second witness who reported white males.

but I imagine with all the gear they were wearing

I AM
>SORRY FOR THOSE WHO PERISHED, BUT WHY CAN'T THINGS BE LESS
>CLEAR THAN WHAT IS REPORTED? WE ALREADY KNOW WE ARE SPOON-FED
>INFORMATION (TRUE OR OTHERWISE) ON A DAILY BASIS. I CAN'T
>SIMPLY BELIEVE THE NEWS BECAUSE THEY SAY IT IS SO. IN THIS DAY
>AND AGE EYE-WITNESSES ARE BETTER THAT REPORTERS.

Oh this is an absolute wash IMO, at least depending on what we’re discussing. Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable and a 50-50 bet to get accurate information. Her skin seemed particularly light and I assume she had some sort of covering for her face (don’t know this detail) but even if she didn’t, and I don’t say this to be disrespectful, but her face isn’t particularly feminine and could easily be mistaken for a guy at a glance, especially in the midst of such chaos. She’s not terribly dark either.

He’s darker but not so dark that it’s not unreasonable to mistake him for a tanned white guy in a situation like this unless you get a good, long look at him.

Also, the time of the shooting and the time of the shootout with the cops was what, five hours? Six?

This would basically have had to be planned well in advance. I listened to the police scanners during that entire portion in real time and heard multiple reports of the SUV while they searched for it as well as a mention of the home in Redlands. The setup for something like this seems like it would have had to be meticulous to ridiculous levels in order to have three white dudes do the initial shooting and swap out these two as patsies.

There was a third witness who was a coworker who also says it wasn’t Sayd, however the verbal statement I saw of this was more of “I couldn’t believe it, I told them, he’s so quiet”. Not “I saw all three shooters and none of them were Sayd”. There was a written report of what he said that said he saw “one of the shooters spraying bullets”.

Most of this stuff is showing up on websites that traffic in counterculture news such as Info Wars and numerous other third rate hack sites and the most rational agenda to follow IMO is web clicks for those sites because everyone and their mama is posting links to these places on Facebook.

The part that bothers me is that a third shooter seemed pretty definitive, even in the police scanner that I listened to. I think there are reasonable mistakes that can be made in terms of identifying the appearance of the shooters and think those accounts either have holes (one woman said they were all tall and athletic, but she was looking down from the second story which makes her description of “tall” suspect at best.) or are being somewhat misreported, as in the third witness I spoke of.

But a third shooter seems like a pretty hard detail to screw up and that’s the one element that isn’t passing the smell test. Not running into any conspiracies with that part just yet but that’s a glaring change that I don’t have any reasonable explanation for and I haven’t seen one.