>What you failed to include or recognize is that you live and
>walk with the veil of male privilege. Asserting that women
>aren't victims is wholly incorrect. I can tell you myself that
>I have felt victimized my this kind of thing since I was a
>child... a time when I should have felt at least a little bit
>insulated. Women, particularly black women, have been dealing
>with this kind of gaze and the resulting discomfort for most
>of our lives. Men have the privilege of getting approached by
>women without carrying the historical baggage of women
>collectively and her personal emotional trauma from years of
>being made to feel that her body is not her own, that the
>person who approaches in a friendly way may be there to hurt
>you, etc. It's not looking at the whole picture when you
>simply say you feel great to receive this "validation" of your
>hard work in the gym and others should just quit being the
>victim. Can you see how that ignores a whole bunch of reality?
>Can you see how that trivializes people's real experiences?

I can on both counts, but I have questions...what is the end game? What is the resolution for the individual woman and women in general? How can guys respond appropriately to their nature of appreciating women they find physically attractive? Yes...hound-dogging CAN go too far and put a hurt on individual women and women in general. And dudes staring at you could be less than awesome for a lot of reasons. I got it. BUT there's women who have developed a thick enough skin to where they don't worry about that when it happens because they are at a certain place with themselves to not sweat it, etc. And we all know about the ones who don't play that when you come at them in an out of bounds way. I get off of the train when people act like all hollering is out of bounds! And yes...I get that some women go through lengths to take attention away from themselves. But at what cost? And...again...what is the true desire here? No hollering? No looking? Better, more tasteful hollering?

And a brief (yeah right) thing on historical baggage..I struggle with that, because it exists in many different people for different reasons. Aka that can't be the thing that kills women off about themselves in these situations. At some point everyone has to pack light on historical baggage, learn how to understand and manage their real individual baggage, and go forward living their lives towards their goals with their family and friends in tow HOPEFULLY supporting and contributing. That's a heavy thing to get into without understanding your angle though...I'm interested in your thoughts here..

Jimaveli