>>you claim black music doesnt/shouldnt be art but wtf you
>>think jazz was?
>
>first of all: i NEVER said that.
>
>in fact, from the beginning, i said that Jazz (starting from
>the bebop era, anyway) WAS "Art" in the self-conscious
>sense... and that i found that a double-edged sword.
>
>on one hand, it was good that Black musicians were standing up
>and demanding the respect accorded to European composers and
>refusing to be regarded as "naturally entertaining" buffoons.
>
>on the other hand, the emphasis on *self-conscious* art (mind
>you: the "self-conscious" part is very important here) ended
>up alienating musicians from the audience (see: MIles turning
>his back to the audience at concerts) and turned Jazz into a
>cottage industry full of musicians playing for themselves and
>their peers.
>
>(over the weekend, i made a post explaining this more fully
>since so many people misinterpreted my intentions the first
>time. i would respectfully ask that you refer to that post...
>it's called "My Final Statement on the Whole
>Art/Entertainment/Commerce" thing)

I'll check it out.
>
>you see, explizit... my point was NEVER that Black people
>cannot or should not make Art, but it was more against certain
>"highfalutin ideas" concerning Art... for example, "Art for
>Art's sake"
>
>if you know anything about Black musical/artistic traditions,
>you will be aware that "Art for Art's sake" is usually
>considered anathema. Black Art is usually *functional*...
>whether in Africa it's a sculpture made to signify the
>stimulation of fertility, or in Depression-era Mississippi
>when music was made for sharecroppers to dance away their
>frustrations at the end of the week.
>
>also, you probably know that in Black music, there is usually
>not a sharp dochotomy between Artist and Audience. in Africa,
>you had the master drummer, but the audience actually
>participated in the performance by clapping, stomping, or
>contributing other small percussion sounds.
>
>it's the same thing in hip-hop when the MC tells the audience
>to say "HO!"
>
>the same thing existed in Jazz, too.
>
>the point is that the primary function was to *entertain* the
>audience... and in the process they created enduring Art.
>
>when the beboppers decided that they wanted to
>self-consciously create High Art, they were actually more
>influenced by the standards of European concert music than
>they were by the Black tradition (this is true: look it up)
>
I know all about this homie. don't trip. Charlie Parker actually would play classical records and solo over them.

>my point was that these "highfalutin" attitudes towards Art
>were actually foreign to the Black experience.

I don't agree. I don't think you can pinpoint the black experiences relationship to art and music completely within a box of stomping your feet or call and response. but hey do you.
>
>NOT that Black people cannot, could not, did not, or should
>not create Art.

ok but you did frame it within that context. just wanted to clear that up.
>
>i hope that clears it up for you...?

cool.