Shit drops in a couple of hours and no post? Times are a changin. I expect this to be better than Ye's album

I think this album is a bit overrated but "if i should die" "Res dogs" "Hard Knock Life" "originators" "its like that" i dunno man, still a dope ass album

Vol 2 was the steaming pile of shit.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Why are you even here?

possibly dick in his life.

i cant call it.

How refreshing

It's uncanny.

That's how he forms his opinions on music and if you don't like it you're "mad"

Vol. 3 as well. Really like that one.

tend to be. Vol 1 had great highs and some pretty bad lows. Vol 2 was actually similar, but had even more trendy BS that sounds wack now.

I agree but I still like Money Cash Hoes.

Take off 3 tracks and you have a classic.

The other albums like Vol 2 3 you can probably only keep 3 tracks.

...Volume 1 is practically flawless. People rag on "The City Is Mine", but it's not terrible.

TERRIBLE

and it didnt even keep "iz that yo chick" and "id do anything" which would have absolutely made it classic

but when u look at some of the so called classics that have dropped the past 10 years I'd put this over many of them

and the strong tracks aren't quite strong enough to push it into classic status. It's just a very good album. I'm not sure of any "unanimous" classics from the last decade I'd put it over.

>

Vol 3 is a classic now? That is the most absurd shit Ive heard in a minute.

Vol 2, 3 and Dynasty are fucking terrible albums period.

Shit, Dynasty has higher highs than 2 and 3

I said it was NOT a classic.

I said it was the best album between RD and BP.

Dynasty is filled with too many shitty features, it is in no way better than V3.

lol @ those albums being terrible and leaving out boring-ass V1

>I said it was NOT a classic.
>

This comment was for the entire exchange where someone did say "it would be named a classic if Jay didn't have other classics which are better".

>I said it was the best album between RD and BP.
>

But it's really isn't.

>Dynasty is filled with too many shitty features, it is in no
>way better than V3.
>

Vol 3 has absolutely NO song that is among Jay's best. At least Dynasty has the Intro, This Can't Be Life and Soon You'll Understand. Vol 3 has So Ghetto which is he worst Primo song he did. And if you want to give him Big Pimpin, you can go ahead and tack on Give It To Me to the Dynasty. And by no means am I saying Dynasty is good. Most of Jays albums are terrible.

Edit: I'll give you Come and Get Me as well.

>lol @ those albums being terrible and leaving out boring-ass
>V1

Vol 1 is in Jay-s top 3 albums my man. And the fact you said it's boring tells me that you don't like Hip-Hop.

A Million and One Questions/Rhyme No More
Imaginary Players
Streets Is Watching
Friend of Foe 98
Lucky Me
Who You Wit
Real N
Rap Game/Crack Game
Where I'm From
You Must Love Me

None of those other wack as fuck albums not only don't have 10 good songs, they don't have songs on the same level as those I just listed.

http://tinyurl.com/q694m67

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

Timbaland was out of his gourd on that one.

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

and everyone would understand.

Yeezus and 808's have got to be the worst albums ever released under a ROC label.

Shit, Bleek's albums were >>>>>>>>>>>>>

kinda depend on how you feel about 'bad' songs. With CDs before and iPods now, there's no reason to listen to 'bad' songs on albums like those...so, to me...it comes down to how good you feel about the songs you like.

Volume 1...good lord! The good songs are like Super Reasonable Doubt: Gold Edition.

Volume 2...slept on nowadays...it sold so much and the hits got played out. Sometimes that is enough to change opinions when history is being rewritten. The 98 Rough Riderism of the album didn't age amazingly, but there's still songs where he went in.

Volume 3...I wonder how this one would've come out had it not leaked. Half hits. Half 'let me rap' songs. It IS bad when songs fit in one bucket or the other and only a few can go in both.

Jimaveli

An album dropped and we haven't heard a single song or even a snippet. Has that ever happened?

anybody else & this post would've been made ATLEAST a wk ago.

it's crazy it hasn't leaked.

Digital format only and physical copies don't come out until next week or the week after?

just in time too, my ears are finally starting to burn off that einstein

i mean it HAS to be better than cheezus

may even stay up til dem links pop up...

sounds like the album I used to hope for in '03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTaOtTScD2Q

after a weekend in Vegas where I heard Tyga so much I almost shot myself in the face this'll be my album of the year if Timbo gave Jay that bounce back and gets him rockin the club

I'm tired of all the 60 BPM Future type shit!

I was never really hyped for the Ye album but I have my hopes up for this one. I hope Jay don't disappoint.

It says my phone doenst suppoet the app. I guess cause its jail broken

.........IM MAD.

http://www.hot97.com/StreamHot/

LOL! Fuck all them bombs...105:

http://www.iheart.com/live/1481/?autoplay=true

s.blak
HA-HA

Gracias

Inbox a brother if u can.....Yep yep...

.zip file if possible, I can't download apps on this comp to open .rars.

I don't feel bad about downloading this at all, BTW. lol

the app isn't working.

Seems like the Hot 97 stream is the only way people are hearing it currently.

thanks

thanks in advance

also there is some cleanup you need to do to the track order.

>also there is some cleanup you need to do to the track order.
>

I will be seeing this in concert.. This is good

I want my money back.

dont listen to the rest of the album.. if you feel this way you wont like the rest it. Leave this thread to us to discuss this badly intro'd album

isn't it too soon to release an album right after Kanye's? i just thought the timing was weird on this one.

The Jay-Z link I have is missing some songs and the mix is kinda wack....

If someone has another link send it to the kid....Thanks....

i'm at work all night ..thanks in advance

>

...Million and One Questions move and release a remix with more verses. Wishful thinking.



Since 1976

is BY FAR the best track...best Jay song in a while. Rest of the album is ok. The best tracks are the ones you heard in the original commercial. Rest is mediocre in my opinion

shall hold you down for this album and any others.

(im excluding AG cuz I just am)

its still new but on first listen....its definitely a different sounding Jay-Z...like Black Album was...little to no filler and everything feels, just right....

this is a great album

First impression, dope as hell

The rapping on here is really really weak. Flows, bars, voice....all bad. The fuck happened to Jay?

I get excited just thinking about Rae, Ghost, Deck, RZA, GZA & Meth
over that shit.

http://www.spin.com/articles/timbaland-interview-jay-z-magna-carta-holy-grail-video/?utm_source=spintwitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=spintwitter

Star producer discusses 'Yeezus,' Timberlake, and J. Cole

Jay-Z's Magna Carta Holy Grail arrives tomorrow, July 4, and though we've learned much about the man's 12th studio album — the cover art, the lyrics, the collaborators — we've still yet to get into the nitty gritty. Enter Timbaland. The multi-faceted producer had a major hand in the making of MCHG and he goes in-depth about that experience in the lengthy new interview above dubbed "Timbaland Unlocks the Holy Grail."

In speaking to Revolt TV, he discusses the process behind many of the album's songs, and even plays some snippets along the way. He also addresses his former fallout with Jigga and his return to the Roc Nation fold; his experience in helping to craft Justin Timberlake's sound; what it was like to mentor J. Cole (currently No. 2 on the charts); and his personal struggles with drug use and creativity. Oh, and he refers to Kanye West's Yeezus as "Rage Against the Machine" rap. Awesome. Dig into that revealing, intimate chat above.
---------
sig:
I got Chad in my heart and DJ Screw in my cup.
Dave Is For The Children aka The Notorious DI4TC
www.twitter.com/DI4TC

only songs that stuck with me were versus, bbc and beach is better

like jay just sat his ass down and let jt and frankie and bey just sing their asses off

seems like a lot of people really like it though, definitely gonna give it a few more listens

I mainly want to know which producers did which tracks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta..._Holy_Grail

which I have and matches up, Page 30.

actually they missed at least one, Darryl Camper co-production on the Hit-Boy track.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Page 1 of google is your friend. 134mb? We'll see what it is. Oh shit...beat change on Picasso Baby...YES! Beat changes can be fucking awesome...it is like everyone is finally figuring that out and putting at least 1 on their album.

Jay pauses a lot more than he used to, but the guy still puts words together cool as shit.

Three songs in and these tracks sound absurd...Timbo is going silly so far...I'll stop randomly commenting now and focus on this shit...

Jimaveli

http://www.spin.com/articles/jay-z-magna-carta-holy-grail-album-leak-stream/

the bottom line is this is the most cocksure & in command of his mic presence he's been for an extended stretch post-retirement.

Maybe even longer than that, a lot of the spitting on here has more conviction in the cadence then he's had on most joints since introducing that Young Chris whisper-flow from BP2/Black Album.

That alone makes even some of the weaker cuts worth riding with upon first couple listens.

Nothing immediately a mandatory skip (when's the last Hov album that didn't have one of those?).

Even the obligatory-shitty-B-assisted-cut isn't anywhere near the embarrassment of Me & My Girlfriend, Anything or Lift Off because it actually sounds like an authentic tribute to their relationship, plus B sounds sexy, the drums are hard & Jigga's channelling Juvie's 'Back Dat Ass Up' flow at times on the verses.

Rick Rubin was tossing some light shade when saying this is a 'more traditional hip-hop album' compared to Yeezus but the truth is for an artist of Hov's stature, a traditional hip-hop album or something resembling one is the most daring thing he can do in this climate.

back when I was talkin instagram.......last thing you wanted was your picture snapped

smfh

I assumed someone was just messing around. That's really the cover? No way in hell I'm buying the physical copy, if that's the case.

Tim surprised me on a few cuts too. The Nas feature was a wasted opportunity though.

hahahaha

rapping is meh

Jay's rap are the worst of his career on this and everyone had it last night despite what phone they have. Cut it out.

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

I wish there were less singing features, but I'm really enjoying this one.

this was some real sleepy time shit off one hit.

might have to wait for a >>> 160kb/s rip, though.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

.

But those two albums are very much things you can throw on and dance to, thrash around to, make mean faces across the aisle on the bus and throw middle fingers at people driving by without any regret.


This is like, let me get a glass of lemonade and see what I can find on StumbleUpon this afternoon.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>But those two albums are very much things you can throw on
>and dance to, thrash around to, make mean faces across the
>aisle on the bus and throw middle fingers at people driving by
>without any regret.
>
>
>This is like, let me get a glass of lemonade and see what I
>can find on StumbleUpon this afternoon.
>

Too funny.

I've got myself so excited for this album I can't afford to not like it.

>I've got myself so excited for this album I can't afford to
>not like it.

I was starting to get a bit too krunk about it myself.

I now think I am fine with letting it be what I think it is...it is JayZ rapping in an upgraded and more confident Watch The Throne mode over 'I'm trying to give you that heat, cotdammit' Timbo production. They both curled up in a room after burying the hatchet on past drama and tried to put something dope out. They have enough talent themselves and a good enough phonebook (Pharrell, Nas, Timberlake, Mike Dean, dude from Cocaine 80s, Beyonce, etc) to add onto their efforts. I can applaud that in general and the resulting hour of music I have received.

How I heard it...after running through about half on it on my laptop, I stopped, threw it on my iPod, rolled to the gym, and started over. So now, I've heard the whole thing in headphones FROM FRONT TO BACK WITH NO SKIPPING PAUSES OR REPLAYS. And I'm not upset about it at all on those terms. It isn't the Holy Grail or anything (hehe), but most rap cats would kill to have a 12th ALBUM this jamming overall. But since it is Jay, folks want the album to sound like rolling slowly down a hill made of titties would probably feel. I want to hear effort, a vision, some solid rapping, and damn good production based on his resources...I heard all of that here.

I went into it scared that Jay would 'trap it up' a little too much in efforts to recreate Niggas in Paris. And the song with Ross gave me the heeby geebies on the first laptop listen, but then I heard the Pimp C intro on the earphone listen and the way it went with the flow of the album and I was good with it. It sounds like someone tried to sequence the album...at least for the first 10 or so songs. Again...I applaud that.

Jimaveli

And it's not even close.

...I mean save Yeezus, that's kind of a low bar for Jay to be clearing.

as usual

Fire away.

I can play that shit front to back. Shit's heat.

over an album again I don't think.

shit, the intro & third verse of 'Trouble' off Kingdom Come were both harder than anything on American Gangster (who's best display of pure rapping was on an old song).

Now thematically, lyrically, cohesively, production-wise, etc you could still say AG but it wasn't like he was killing it with the flow.........which is always his best weapon historically when he's on top of his game.

Not to mention American Gangster starts off with snoozers while even with a Timberlake vocal these first couple joints go hard.

American Gangster doesn't even really start until Roc Boys at 6, No Hook at 5 on a good day.

That VH1 Storyteller Script Following Rap Crap early on Pray/American Dreamin' is slow & dull, Hello Brooklyn with Wayne is a skipper like Barry Bonds is on Graduation but worse.

>shit, the intro & third verse of 'Trouble' off Kingdom Come
>were both harder than anything on American Gangster (who's
>best display of pure rapping was on an old song).
>
>Now thematically, lyrically, cohesively, production-wise, etc
>you could still say AG but it wasn't like he was killing it
>with the flow.........which is always his best weapon
>historically when he's on top of his game.
>
>Not to mention American Gangster starts off with snoozers
>while even with a Timberlake vocal these first couple joints
>go hard.
>
>American Gangster doesn't even really start until Roc Boys at
>6, No Hook at 5 on a good day.
>
>That VH1 Storyteller Script Following Rap Crap early on
>Pray/American Dreamin' is slow & dull, Hello Brooklyn with
>Wayne is a skipper like Barry Bonds is on Graduation but
>worse.

you said about American Gangster stop it.

____________

Dallas Heatvricks BACK 2 BACK CHAMPS!!

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

I didn't really like the way he flowed on that album all that much, that's why 'Ignorant Shit' stuck out (and the tacked-on verse sounded so).

The first FIVE tracks are skippers and my favorite tracks on there (Say Hello, I Know, Success, Roc Boys) are more about the production or another element besides Jay dropping jewels or rapping his ass off.

Just curious.

great production.

I can say that I thought of two things that reminded me of your podcast while listening to this for different reasons: 1) the absolutely *comical* amount of Basquiat references, almost like he was fucking with y'all, 2) the sports agent reference where he's bragging about stealing Robby Cano from Scott Boras.

enjoy them beats beats beats tho

>
>enjoy them beats beats beats tho

rappers are writers...that's their PRIMARY role in this shit.

when i iso vocals and read the lyrics, his mediocrity absolutely floors me.

for any extended period of time?

rappers are rappers, that is their primary function.

As I told you before, I don't read rap lyrics, I listen to rap music.

You have a dude with one of the best & most malleable flows with the ability to ride beats as deftly as anyone who's ever done it and you're talking about reading or removing music from the equation.

That's an absolutely pointless exercise to me.

I can write some good-ass lyrics & spit them a capella alright but I never tried to actually rap for a living or even a legit hobby in terms of recording because actually sounding good when the beat drops is much more difficult for me than scribbling some thoughtful poetic shit on the printed page or delivering it without music at my own chosen pace.

This is why Snoop is a better overall MC than Ras Kass.

he's average. it's not pointless to me.

and he wouldn't make my Top 50 artists ever to listen to.

Watch the Throne and now this.

I like his flow (scheme and cadence) in one half of one song.
The last verse of Picasso is the only fire he spits.

>Watch the Throne and now this.
>
>I like his flow (scheme and cadence) in one half of one song.
>
>The last verse of Picasso is the only fire he spits.
>
>

It's below BP1, RD, BA, and Vol. 3...

Not re-inventing the wheel or anything, but definitely a good album, which is all I wanted. Jay's rapping is solid. Some of the beats bang. Shit like "SomewhereinAmerica" and "BBC" are just as good as anything out right now. On first listen, I'm decently satisfied.

I've got some issues with it: not loving some of the beats, "Holy Grail" seems like it has more Timberlake than Jay, him talking about his art collection in "Picasso" is kinda dull, and the "Mommie Dearest" samples in "Blue Jay-Z" are corny. But overall, I can probably fox with this.

Ye lost, would have been perfect for Yezzus


http://wondagurl.com/

Sixteen-year-old Ebony Oshunrinde (pronounced aw-shun-rin-day) a.k.a. WondaGurl of Brampton, Ontario has caught the attention of one of the world’s biggest rappers. This week, millions will hear the young Canadian’s production skills when Jay-Z releases his highly anticipated album Magna Carta Holy Grail that includes the track “Crown” which WondaGurl produced.

WondaGurl began making beats in her bedroom at the age of nine, and by fifteen she had placements on Canadian hip hop duo SonReal & Rich Kidd’s Juno-nominated album The Closers (for the track “Money Money”), Grammy-nominated artist Ryan Leslie’s latest album Black Mozart and on Houston rapper Travi$ Scott’s track “Uptown” (featuring A$AP Ferg). It was through her work with Travi$ Scott that Jay-Z came to hear her production work and snapped up her beat for “Crown”.

Jay-Z reveals Magna Carta Holy Grail today through a highly publicized promotion that gives over one million Samsung Galaxy phone users the album for free, three days before its release date. The album is officially released worldwide on Sunday, July 7, 2013.

As one of Black Box’s newest management clients, WondaGurl joins an urban roster that already features two-time Polaris Nominee Shad, Juno-Award Winner Classified, the MMVA-nominated collaboration of SonReal & Rich Kidd and Classified’s protégé, Kayo.

first thing I thought when the beat dropped..

>first thing I thought when the beat dropped..

http://tinyurl.com/5jl73h

which is kinda unusual for my relation with jay albums . My favorite mc
usually makes a few/or more missteps on every album (beside RD)

need to give it a few more spins... but sounds good so fare..

(btW: jay got nas on BBC.. (:)

This hasn't a "Justify My Thug", "Moment Of Clarity" (The Black Album)

or a "Hello Brooklyn" (American Gangster)...

From a production standpoint, it's his best since the Black Album. Rapping-wise, it's all over the place. He's pushing himself a bit more flow-wise here but his one-liners are severely lacking. I remember listening to Jay albums and laughing my ass off, those days seem to be long gone. There's enough here to warrant another listen but this is sounding like a mixed bag.

I absolutely love the production. Thanks to the beats, there really isn't a song on here I don't want to listen to. But flow wise he's kind of all over the place. Lyrically it's a mix of his last 2 albums (BP3 & WTT), but this is definitely better produced.

I'm only a few listens in, but I can understand your feelings exactly.

its about all you can expect from him at this point in his career.

LOL Jay is lyrically Christian Ponder

Hollywood.
Lift Off.
Part II (On The Run)

I'd listen to this before La Familia too, FWIW

I was actually surprised at how good it was... had that slick late 80s/
early 90s standout track sound.

As for FUTW, I'm still hurtin' over that not being the Wu reunion beat.
Shit's tragjc.

flow-wise you can tell hov been listening to 2chainz a lot lately..lol

nothing mindblowing but a good album nonetheless

Shit's hot.

A high profile piece of shit.

wtf

LOL

Tom Ford is horrible

Nickels and Dimes is pretty dope tho

Plus whenever he's on a Pharrell song he actually puts in work

Overall:

-Timbo and Pharrell put in fine production work, especially the former.

-Jay's verses for the most part of luke warm imo. I feel like his best song is Jay-Z Blue" cause he's actually says some significant shit and the song as a whole has some narrative to give some longevity. It's not same "I'm more rich and more powerful than you" line he recycles throughout most of the record.

- Oh, and Beyonce needs to stop appearing on his albums. The song was instant skip business.

to roll my eyes at Part II (On the Run)...then that Kashif ass beat kicked in (AND it is allegedly Timbo!?), Beyonce went in on her part and I couldn't help but jam. That song is the 2nd song that pops up in my mind (after Picasso) when I think about this album. Sure, JayZ tries to do too much 'song structure' stuff when he and B are on a song...like he had verses where his flow changes the same way in the same spot on all the verses. He doesn't normally do that...he would almost randomly change flows years ago...you know...he was 'I don't follow any guidelines...' Jay.

But anyway...I'm thinking folks are rolling with hating Part II just because it is them moreso than the song itself..if there's a problem with it, it is Jay doing the Juvi Back That Ass Up Flow more than once in the song.

Jimaveli

>Plus whenever he's on a Pharrell song he actually puts in
>work
>
>Overall:
>
>-Timbo and Pharrell put in fine production work, especially
>the former.
>
>-Jay's verses for the most part of luke warm imo. I feel like
>his best song is Jay-Z Blue" cause he's actually says some
>significant shit and the song as a whole has some narrative to
>give some longevity. It's not same "I'm more rich and more
>powerful than you" line he recycles throughout most of the
>record.
>
>- Oh, and Beyonce needs to stop appearing on his albums. The
>song was instant skip business.
>
>

what you said

I have listened to the album until I like it. That being said, I think a lot of people in here are exaggerating it's greatness.

the first song is sooooooooo dope.

very good album through a few listens, and as a Jay stan since RD he's bored the hell outta me the past few years...

damn, Timbo got some bouncy boom bap on picasso baby too

really need to bump this in the whip for the full feel, gonna wait to do that til I cop a hard copy

After having like six Basquiat name drops we get to a song about a suit designer.

Pass.

Sounds to me like the "big pimp" part is beating the shit out of whatever else he's talking about.

I mean if it's PIMP vs. BUSINESS MAN then they're both of little interest to me.

Ice-T was a PIMP, and often times he ended up right in jail at the end of a song.

Kayne is PIMPIN' but even knows how silly his demands for croissants are.


Should I too start drug dealign and rapping so I can fuck a bad bitch and own a Basquiat??

Jay-Z's try to be a hero - what he needs to be is an anti-hero.

As usual with Hov albums, it's not for everyone.

Wait, that's the case for all music.

I'm going to go check out my Bisquick art collection (boxes of pancake mix from the last 8 years) and listen to my yodeling records.

But what I take issue with is listeners/critics stating what an artist *must* do.

>But what I take issue with is listeners/critics stating what
>an artist *must* do.

fuck outta here...you've DONE this.

Or:
Do you DEMAND that every post starts with "Here are my thoughts" and ends with a "IMHO?"

Or is the issue, that my word is BOND and that Jay-Z MUST follow my commands???

To be fair, he's screwed things up pretty well. He's worth a few hundred million, he's married to Beyonce, and he has people complaining about post structure on internet boards - he's a real loser. If he doesn't starting following my commands now I fear he may be doomed to continue to live this lifestyle.

Lets see what they bring in 2014.

Maybe one of them can help Pusha T with a listenable single.

I deleted the album yesterday

Jay has a monopoly on excellent beats

all the excellent producers save their best beats for him

some guest features were straight

but Jay aint really impress me

ain't no great lyricists coming up in the game no more. there's some dude with great flows and charisma, but the writing fuckin sucks.

much appreciated.

... they want to inbox me with? Thanks in advance.

he sure loves to incorporate references in his songs/videos:


"Live among the serpents
Turn arenas into churches"


ok then homie..

OnlyInAmerica
Picasso Baby
Versus

...then some tracks just have a great energy going for them

Crown
FuckWitme.....
FUTW
BBC

overall it's reeks of wasted talent and beats.....i still like Jay though, he has NOTHING to prove at this point, but this could be alot better...

Sure, it doesn't have the depth, insight or candidness of Reasonable Doubt or Blueprint, but there's something to be said for execution. His stunting raps are still dope, the conceptual songs are still pretty solid as far as how they deliver the concepts (even if they aren't "deep"), the flows are on point, he's still got some really rewindable lines with double/triple-entendres, and the production is dope.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him be even more thoughtful too, but hopefully, people don't act like it's a weak album just because it isn't philosophical and ish. It's not envelope-pushing, but it's still quality rap music at the end of the day. This, especially compared to albums like BP3 and Kingdom Come, is a project where he brings everything together really well.

As much as I want Jay to be more thoughtful/insightful, I really just need to accept the fact that he isn't Nas, Kendrick Lamar, old Talib, etc. That's just not who he is. He's still a well-rounded artist either way. On his songs like that, I'll just enjoy the cleverness and the concept execution - because both of those are always going to be on point - and be on my way.

But I'm already noticing the type of great lines and double-entendres that I depend on Jay for.

His verse get cut or something?

something still feels slightly...off about it, but I'm digging pretty much everything. Definitely not a song I can point to and say I hate it, though "Holy Grail" does put the album off to a pretty bland start. I generally hate when other artists basically take over a song, especially when it's that sort of cross-genre song.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Keep the rest. Thanks.

that it hurts

that said its better than i expected lol

http://www.spin.com/reviews/jay-z-magna-carta-holy-grail-samsung-july-4/

Given its proximity to Kanye West's critically beloved My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy and the maximalist sound the two albums share, the joint 2011 project Watch the Throne has always been considered more Kanye's album than Jay-Z's. Likewise, Yeezy idolizers will forever contend that the album's success came from Hov hitching his G-Wagon to rap's greatest-ever artiste, which, it should be noted, is wrong. After the wandering bluster of his last solo album, 2009's Blueprint 3, the far superior Throne found Jay carving a new path, contemplative and lucid about his position as one of the most successful and visible black men in America, taking stock of his life, his career, and his family after years of indulging a willingness to coast on his own reputation.

Now, with his 12th solo album, Magna Carta Holy Grail, he's carved yet another path — though this one, of course, has little to do with the music. In initially releasing the album exclusively through an app on Samsung phones — and receiving seven figures up front to do so — Jay-Z has laid down the trump card in a year filled with superstar musicians releasing surprise albums with elaborate promotional rollouts. Thanks to the album's ubiquitous, deceptive Rick-Rubin-on-a-couch promo and Jay's crowing about creating #newrules, it's hard to view this piece of music — this art — through any prism besides the business one. The songs themselves — overwrought yet somehow still undercooked — don't do much to shift the perspective, either. This is a businessman making a business deal, with listeners simply left to handle the moving parts.

That could be, I guess, a description of any album released through a major label — but rarely has music of this visibility felt so much like an afterthought without having been literally contractual. Magna Carta Holy Grail was made overwhelmingly by musical legends: Timbaland, Pharrell, Justin Timberlake, Nas, Beyoncé. In teaming up with Samsung, Jay wanted the world to marvel at his power; in teaming up with this roster of collaborators, he makes it clear that's all this album is about. What exactly comes of this team-up between corporation and rapper is inconsequential. That it simply exists — that it gets people talking about Jay-Z and Samsung — is enough.

Of course, Jay has always made music so the masses would marvel. But this was once achieved through his skill as a rapper. He was the best MC since Biggie — he knew it, he knew that you knew it, and so he said it. But on MCHG, we're simply supposed to marvel at Jay's things. He spends much of the album just throwing out the names of artists and luxury brands like confetti. On "Picasso Baby": "It ain't hard to tell / I'm the new Jean Michel / Surrounded by Warhols / My whole team ball / Twin Bugattis outside the Art Basel / I just wanna live life colossal." On "BBC": "Versace plates got the Basquiat / Collab from the Versace place." This is rap written around references in a way that barely makes sense. Riff Raff does this, too, but it's supposed to be absurd instead of important.

This — Jay sloppily celebrating his extreme wealth and the taste it has bought him — isn't offensive, or particularly new. Watch the Throne had plenty of that: As he said himself, if you escaped what he escaped, you'd be in Paris bragging about your Basquiats, too. But here, in this form at least, it's just lazy. On the chorus of "Tom Ford" — which features a dinky, metallic Timbaland beat like a Pavlovian exercise — he spouts, "I don't pop molly / I rock Tom Ford." This juxtaposition is meaningless, especially when you compare it to, say, Kanye's 2012 hit "Mercy," a moaning, glistening, sweaty mashing of drugs and luxury. Signifiers festoon MCHG like, well, art hanging on a wall. Stare, admire, gasp. This is Jay merely displaying his things, almost literally, almost exclusively. It even extends to whole songs. There's a 50-second interlude produced by Mike Will Made It, accenting the album like an Audemars. There's "Holy Grail," which co-stars Timberlake and adapts the chorus to "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Did you see what Jay can buy? Do you know who he knows?

There are times, though, when he is incisive. "Oceans" is a melding of this album's sweet-toothed regality with Throne's historical criticism. It's not a perfect match, but it features rapping you can chew on: "Only Christopher we acknowledge is Wallace / I don't even like Washingtons in my pocket." On the outro of "Somewhereinamerica," he chants, "Twerk, Miley / Miley, Miley, twerk" as if he's asking us, "Can y'all believe this shit?" The track ends with strings that sigh overtly as Jay mutters, "Only in America." Even the watery tracks — such as "Heaven" — have flashes of his old wit: "Meanwhile this heretic, I be out in Marrakesh / Morocco, smoking hashish with my fellowship / Y'all dwell on devil shit / I'm in a Diablo yellow, shit."

But you have to cobble together these fleeting moments of Peak Jay, like throwing change in your own cup. This isn't Watch the Throne, full of rich and weighty contributions from a man who is still enormously talented. It's rap music as a transaction, with a host of stars and hip names wrangled together to convince you it's not. Business people immediately identified this partnership as a loss leader for Samsung — they aren't going to recoup their investment directly, but here we are talking about the tech giant for three straight weeks. And, hey, maybe someone will switch over from Apple in a few years. But Magna Carta Holy Grail is also a loss leader for Jay. He gave his music to us for free so he could get his $5 million from someone else. That's all that matters. Cheers, everyone. More Basquiats for the Carters.

I respect the perspective but if a review of this album even MENTIONS Samsung I gotta side eye it

that's barely got shit to do with the sound of it, if anything at all.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I can understand the writer's sentiment, I even agree with some of it. But he does seem to ignore the album's overall execution - which doesn't necessarily make up for its lack of real soul, but it still seems to have a place in a review.

It's the downside to Jay always rapping about whatever he's going through at the time of recording. He's relaxed....so the music is relaxed.

There's no missteps on this album too. No "Reminder"'s here...

I really need a full Beach Is Better tho, who talked Jay into keeping that an interlude?!?!?

nm

its more like 80% of these songs lmao

but yes if some of these beats were given to a rapper who is more...lets say "hungry" the results would have been allot better

I'd give this album like a 5-5.5/10 i guess

one of the laziest hov songs ever.....

The first track signals it. It's basically a Timberlake song with a couple of Jay
verses. Timberlake's part is all you remember about it when it's done.

And the rest of the album follows this format or Jay is tossing up some one or
two word chorus... the sample sings the chorus.

The ONLY good thing about this album is the beats. Jay brought ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
to this album that any decent to ok rapper couldn't have brought.

"Crown", the much talked about track by the 16 yr old girl, would have been
much better off given to ANY hungry new rapper instead of Jay. I'd rather hear
Chance The Rapper on it. At least he'd actually write a song for it. That joint
should have been epic. Instead this nigga makes an OK song out of one of the
best beats of 2013.
I know Jay's not a new jack anymore, and he's made his classic material in the
past, but that doesn't make this album worth a penny. No way I'd spend my
hard earned money on some shit a nigga put so little effort into. Real talk.
You want me to support? Then nigga TRY.
This is where I give props to Good Kid Maad City for being the complete work
that it is, with thoughtful lyrics and well written songs. I'm not even the biggest
fan of that album, but Kendrick deserves every bit of the love he's getting
for all the hard work that went into such an album.

The one song that stood out to me was "Versus" and that's only because I
like the beat so much. You could have Greg Nice talking about absolutely nothing
on that track and it would still be dope. But Jay is even lazy on that shit.
It's like he said "Damn, this puts me in the mind of 'Sucka Nigga' by Tribe, so
I think I'll start it with HEY SUCKA NIGGA WHEREVER YOU ARE". Really dawg?
Smh. Just plain fucking lazy. Well, BBC is has a chorus. That shit's ill too,
but it sounds like a Nas-written chorus.
I'd rather Jay just spit with no hooks if he's gonna write songs so lazily. Shit's
just trash. Work on your shit a little longer if this is the best you got. But I
guess he was telling the truth in that promotional vid when he said "The goal
is the get the album done and put it out." Sounds like that was the ONLY goal, to me.
Quality songs took a backseat like a mufucka.
I'm done with these high profile releases that are supposed to be so great.
This shit is a hoax, being kept afloat ONLY by the name "Jay-Z". A cool marketing
campaign doesn't make your album a piece of art.


Foh

... speaking of which, an idea just popped in my head, they should have just put the 3/4 good songs from Magna Carta and the 3 good songs from Yeezus and called it a Watch The Throne EP ...

Hipsters turning on Jay-Z NOW!?!?!?

How the fuck hipsters forgive Kingdom Come and
BP3, both of which were HORRIBLE

and yet HATE this album which is EXCELLENT?

LOL

LOL

LOL



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

after years of being told he could be introspective and rap with substance and depth...he COULD be kweli...he has failed to do so. like, dogg, ain't nobody stopping you...go on, be kweli. but, in that same line, he gave himself a built-in excuse: oh, it don't make me no money, so i ain't doing it. uh huh. right.

after years of pretending to like hipster shit...he's failed to push his artistic boundaries, both thematically and sonically. merely mentioning basquiat ain't winning over nobody...be like basquiat and be bold when creating.

kanye is everything jay pretends to be as an artist.

dude kingdom come and bp3 were never "forgiven"

those albums sucked

now this is better than those albums

but its still not good

this is as far from a "hipster" situation as it could possibly be, your "anti lesson" agenda doesn't really work here

Just let him cook.

It may be a lie, but he fights on that lie.

The fuck are you people listening to?

If you wanted to say he was mailing it in on parts of Blueprint 3, I'd grant you that. If you wanted to say it sounded like he lost a step on parts of Watch the Throne, fine.

But not here.

I'd say this is pretty easily his best spitting over the course of an album since The Black Album. I ride for American Gangster, but this gets the edge. I'm not saying this is the pinnacle of MCing or that he's reinventing the wheel, but if you like Jay-Z, this is as close to prime-era Jay-Z as your're going to get nowadays.

He's paranoid. He's about as successful as any musician could be and he's scared it makes him a target (for the jackers, the jealous ass crackers, and the boys in blue). He's scared that he's been living SO FUCKING WELL for so long that the bottom is going to fall out. That's why he specifically invokes Biggie (both with the sample of his voice and the interpolation of his lyrics) on the song where he's almost preemptively apologizing to his infant daughter in case he's not there for her someday.

He also shits on himself IN THE FIRST SONG for bitching about weak shit like paparazzi following him when there are real problems like teenagers getting killed on a daily basis in the places where he grew up.

I mean, he wants to live like a high-society elite but he doesn't want to feel like a sellout. He wants to celebrate his success but he feels the need to defend it and rationalize it. He wants "a wife who fucks him like a prostitute." He wants to own the most prestigious symbols of high-brow art all for the love of drug-dealing. In other words, he wants it both ways, he knows it, and he's telling you so.

He also recognizes the supreme irony of partying on yachts on the open sea when it was boats on the open sea that represented unspeakable oppression for his ancestors. His boat is LITERALLY the antithesis of the Santa Maria.

Anyhow, that's just my first opinion. I've only been through the whole thing twice, but right today I'd confidently give this shit a very solid 4/5.

Some people might disagree and say it's not American Gangster and I could understand that...but people are acting like Jay-Z's catalog is gutter trash...it's not...he has a few bad ones...but compared to the industry...his bad ones are just bad by Jay-Z standards...

As a writer, Jay-Z was much more focused, precise, and nuanced on "American Gangster" than he was here. The concept songs were more thoroughly executed, his flows were tighter, and he had a more compelling story in general. He was clearly more inspired with American Gangster, and Magna Carta Holy Grail is more or less a standard Jay-Z album (a good one, BTW).

Mind you, I like MCHG. But tracks like "Oceans" or "Heavens" put more depth into clever lines than they do into fully exploring the concept, IMO. You have decent imagery/symbols, but he doesn't *really* dig. They're dope songs, and I think they get satisfactory grades. But by contrast, American Gangster's songs like "I Know," "Fallin'," and "Pray" delve deeper and are more descriptive. I think the flossing/spitting songs are better on American Gangster, too.

MCHG has better production, I'd say. But I think AG wins with the rhymes.

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

Thank you.

Which is to say, I think he's been sleepwalking for years, just not necessarily to a greater extent on 'Magna Carta Holy Grail' (sidebar: I strongly dislike that album title) than his last few releases.


_______________________________
gamblers and masturbators.

http://urkelmoedee.com
http://urkelmoedee.tumblr.com
http://twitter.com/urkelmoedee

PSN: UrkelMoeDee

now that the iTunes official version is out there.


I'm definitely feeling the sonics a lot more.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Excellent music.
Good rhymes.

He got a winner.


Check out NEW Soul music at: www.myspace.com/starbeing

Bumpin in the STEREO:
Gladys Knight&The Pips
Slave-Stone Jam
Kelly Rowland -Talk A Good Game
Adrian Marcel-RS Presents..
Quadron-Avalanche

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18247-jay-z-magna-carta-holy-grail/

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18247-jay-z-magna-carta-holy-grail/

Artist: Jay-Z
Album: Magna Carta Holy Grail
Label: Roc Nation; 2013
Rating: 5.8

By Ian Cohen; July 8, 2013

Jay-Z and Kanye West's Watch the Throne was introduced by Frank Ocean parsing the respective qualities of gods and kings. Two years later, both rappers have new solo albums that expound on the distinction. Kanye infamously proclaimed “I Am a God” on Yeezus; you could either gape in awe or call it heresy, but you couldn’t doubt his conviction. And just as the brutal and blasphemous Yeezus is true to its title, Magna Carta…Holy Grail offers a jumbled juxtaposition of the regal and divine-- hear Jay-Z gasp “You in the presence of a king/ Scratch that, you in the presence of a god” on “Crown”. It's one of the few lines here that scans as wishful thinking. The album is a celebration of unlimited financial privilege and power that even used its literally game-changing release as a Samsung Galaxy app to separate Jay-Z’s fans into haves and have-nots. Only a small subset could acquire Magna Carta Holy Grail on its release date, and it seems safe to say that fewer still will relate to it in a meaningful way.

Which is problematic, since here the “voice of the young people” seems bent on addressing the public. “I ball so hard on ESPN/ See my name come across CNN/ About six minutes you gonna see it again,” he later claims on “Crown”. Between his newborn daughter, budding sports agency, political controversies, and his equally famous wife, Magna Carta has the most personal material to work with since The Black Album. But the songs rarely go deep. On “Picasso Baby”, Jay boasts “House like the Louvre or the Tate Modern/ Because I be goin’ ape at the auction.” I doubt he meant it to be “Poppin’ Tags” for the Sotheby’s set-- a vulgar display of net worth that puts him in the tax bracket of shipping magnates and NBA owners-- but it comes across as a context and appraisal-free recitation of famous names, a Winner’s History of Modern Art.

The same can be said of the collaborators. Like The 20/20 Experience, the latest album from his Legends of the Summer tourmate Justin Timberlake, Magna is a hedge-betting, black-tie/Black Card affair that’s not just an account of luxury, but an accessory to it. Marquee names Timbaland, Swizz Beatz, Pharrell, Timberlake, Beyoncé, and Nas all lend their talents-- and all appear on “BBC”. The money isn't totally wasted, as these are some of the stranger beats Jay’s rapped over in some time. Witness the contorted, metallic pings of “Tom Ford”, “Somewhereinamerica”’s drunken ragtime horns, or the codeine-laced, dubby “Crown”. Jay is at least trying to interact with a hip-hop mainstream that has evolved a great deal since his last true solo album, though relegating the production of reigning MVP Mike Will Made It to a one-minute interlude ("Beach Is Better") smacks of unintended elitism.

At its best, Magna is a record that only a 43-year-old Jay-Z could make. “Heaven” is the most thought-provoking spiritual meditation he’s written, and the willful misreading of “Losing My Religion” is used to powerful effect. “Jay-Z Blue” ruminates on the responsibilities and cyclical pathologies of fatherhood with warmth and self-doubt rather than the bitterness that marked what had previously been his most family-minded LP, The Dynasty: Roc La Familia. But Jay also manifests a worst case scenario for “dad-rap.” Twelve albums in, he’s still Muhammad Ali, he’s Michael Jackson, he’s Michael Jordan, he’s Frank Sinatra-- the latter is the most deflating comparison, if only because Jay-Z is using him as a prop for yet another lyric about how he did it “my way.” As tedious as these hoary references can be, it's worse when Magna Carta dabbles in contemporary name-drops and Jay-Z becomes Jay Leno-- mentions of Homeland, Instagram, Scott Boras, and Miley Cyrus’ twerkin’ incident bomb like failed monologue jokes between idle chatter.

Unlike Watch the Throne, Jay-Z lacks a foil to bring out an emotional or sociological underpinning, someone to help Magna Carta resonate beyond “look at my shit.” Timberlake is in “my name is Bob and I work at my job” mode during the laughably overblown “Holy Grail", cycling through every tortured artist cliché short of a crucifixion metaphor. And as bad as the “Smells Like Teen Spirit” interpolation reads on paper, once you hear JT and Jay-Z duet on “and we all just entertainers/ And we’re stupid and contagious,” the Nirvana song becomes just another forgettable status symbol. And where Kurt Cobain felt compromised by his fame, Jay and Timberlake are doing everything in their power not to offend the money people-- whether it’s Samsung, Target, or someone dropping $250 to see them at the Rose Bowl.

Jay-Z rapping about the incomprehensible awesomeness of his life is nothing new, and the corporate synergy is hardly a novelty: The Black Album doubled as a retirement party, Kingdom Come was launched by a Budweiser commercial, American Gangster coincided with a Hollywood blockbuster of the same name, and, in hindsight, Blueprint 3 was made with full knowledge that Jay-Z would be Coachella’s first hip-hop headliner. He’s a businessman and a business, man. After all, while Samsung shelled out seven figures for exclusive access to the Jay-Z brand, Shawn Carter was the guy signing the contract and cashing the check. But the best of those joint ventures seemed determined to reach a new audience and create a connection. The weirdly distant and safe Magna Carta Holy Grail abides by the tried and true business principle that the customer is always right: you just have to remember who the customer is here.

not of the album... I agree that with a lot of the review about how he is strictly drive by the corporate world now but if we are gonna start hating on all rappers who are hypocritical nobody will be listening to hiphop anymore... taking the music just as it is it's a very good album

with that being said, Nas's verse on that let nas down remix shits on every verse on this album

it's looking like a very goood chance I end up in the 6-7 score range myself but I feel like no one's really tried to explain why, instead blaming it all on phone companies and promotional material that has nothing to do with the actual (generally pretty terrific) music pared with some disappointing (yet at times exhilarating) vocals.
~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

they do the same type of reviews for all rappers. seems to only be a problem when they don't agree with us.

I don't take this seriously at all

hmmm.

In the wake of Kingdom Come people were loudly questioning whether or not he still had it, and the chip on his shoulder was audible on American Gangster. That was such a refreshing tone to hear from such a monolithic figure, but on the two solo outings since AG he's appeared content with just taking the same victory lap over and over.

Trouble is, I don't know what I want to hear from him at this point. And I think if you pressed most of the people calling the raps "lazy" or "sleepwalking" they'd tell you they don't know what they want to hear either; there's an evident content issue on MCHG but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who could tell you what kind of content he or she would rather hear.

For me, I just wish there was more vigor, more yearning to REALLY PROVE HIS GREATNESS rather than just tell you how great he is repeatedly. You can truly hear that kind of passion on American Gangster and that same vitality springs up again on Watch the The Throne. Now hearing Holy Grail, it's evident Kanye pushed him on Throne more than any of us probably thought. But when left to his own devices and surrounded by the usual cast of awestruck yes men, Jay's lack of conviction comes through loudly, making the output a chore to listen to at times.

Personally, I'd like to see him stunt with more detail, or dig with more conviction.

He's rapped a lot about these deals, but it'd be cool to see him rap about how these deals actually get done, or the sentiment of how these people he's dealing with seem to really look at him despite how rich he is, the racism he may still encounter in these situations, etc. *How*, exactly, does he "move in a room full of vultures"? With the concepts, dig deeper, deliver something from top to bottom; "Heaven" and "Oceans" are satisfactory, but they still sort of just scratch the surface. By contrast, "I Know" and "Fallin'" from American Gangster were much more candid deliveries of concepts.

I don't think he's that far removed from showing conviction, either. I thought his performance on Watch The Throne was superb.

**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

Why I still fuzz with the Lesson
http://open.spotify.com/user/brothersport86/playlist/3DhEhilho77Z0UCPbJlEJf

the last 18 months has seen too much hot fiya...TOO MUCH...you can't come with this, dogg.

and they thought he was gonna get away with it, same themes, same effort...weak.

I'm hard pressed to even call the Kanye album music.

we get it, you hate Jay-Z.

But don't try to prop up all this extra shit on it like you're out there bumping that J. Cole & I don't even know if you've listened to Kendrick's album (which of course is better, like it is the other rap albums of the past two years).

ya know, i actually have listened to it since it was brought up on the podcast, dogg. i listened to kanye's first.

i have admitted quite often that i don't listen to about 70% of post 1993 rap music. make no bones about it. there are a lot good artists (ex. ras kass) that i never even gave a chance back in the day that i now have to discover, because i was disheartened by the direction of the culture.

this is why i harp on lyrics, because before the internet the prevailing thought was the best rapper HAD to be the best lyricist...you can't separate them. hell, moe dee was in the running. is his flow off the charts? nope. great lyricist tho. varied subject matter.

jay never struck me as a lyricist. sorry.

that shit was a straight snoozer to me & I wanted to like it.

Glad you got around to the Kendrick album though, that shit was/is high-powered.

As far as best rapper goes, I wouldn't say Jay's one of them currently, I would say all-time he's certainly in the conversation.

I weigh the entire scope of the sound presentation, not just how lyrics look on a page.

>Glad you got around to the Kendrick album though, that shit
>was/is high-powered.

given that i completely cuban b'ed any and everything any tried to tell me about it, i was able to have my damn mind blown by backseat freestyle. knew NOTHING about it coming in...i started smiling and just nodding like "yeah, youngin the next one...he got the glow"...joint gave me goosebumps.

>As far as best rapper goes, I wouldn't say Jay's one of them
>currently, I would say all-time he's certainly in the
>conversation.

never denied jay's charisma, flow or business acumen. just don't put him up there.

>I weigh the entire scope of the sound presentation, not just
>how lyrics look on a page.

this is the best i can put it: i assume every rapper can RAP. that's why i put it to the side. you SHOULD be able to compliment the beat with your vocals. it's literally your job. just because so many people suck at it, that don't mean i give extra points to dudes who do it well.

however, the only true SKILL that a rapper brings to the art-form is writing. for me, the heart of a rap song lives there, in the words, not the beat. rappers are not pop singers. i don't allow people with absolutely nothing to say to even come near my GOAT lists. you have to carry some WEIGHT, dogg....in the material, not with how much you've impacted the culture outside the recording booth. i don't care about that stuff. what was on the PAGE?!?! because for me, all that's left of who a rapper IS/WAS lives on the page. that's the essence.

>what was on the PAGE?!?! because for me, all
>that's left of who a rapper IS/WAS lives on the page. that's
>the essence.

To me, this is kind of like evaluating, say, Miles Davis or Jerry Garcia solos simply by reading which notes they played on a page of sheet music. Yeah, the notes (or in your case, the words) are critically important, no doubt, but the WAY THEY'RE PLAYED is absolutely at least as important. Nobody disputes that lyrics are crucial, but to ignore delivery and mic presence and flow and everything else that goes with the art of MCing is asinine.

>To me, this is kind of like evaluating, say, Miles Davis or
>Jerry Garcia solos simply by reading which notes they played
>on a page of sheet music.

>>Glad you got around to the Kendrick album though, that shit
>>was/is high-powered.
>
>given that i completely cuban b'ed any and everything any
>tried to tell me about it, i was able to have my damn mind
>blown by backseat freestyle. knew NOTHING about it coming
>in...i started smiling and just nodding like "yeah, youngin
>the next one...he got the glow"...joint gave me goosebumps.
>
nice, yeah that's my favorite album of 2012-13 thus far.

>>As far as best rapper goes, I wouldn't say Jay's one of them
>>currently, I would say all-time he's certainly in the
>>conversation.
>
>never denied jay's charisma, flow or business acumen. just
>don't put him up there.
>
fair.

>>I weigh the entire scope of the sound presentation, not just
>>how lyrics look on a page.
>
>this is the best i can put it: i assume every rapper can RAP.
>that's why i put it to the side. you SHOULD be able to
>compliment the beat with your vocals. it's literally your job.
>just because so many people suck at it, that don't mean i give
>extra points to dudes who do it well.
>
>however, the only true SKILL that a rapper brings to the
>art-form is writing. for me, the heart of a rap song lives
>there, in the words, not the beat. rappers are not pop
>singers. i don't allow people with absolutely nothing to say
>to even come near my GOAT lists. you have to carry some
>WEIGHT, dogg....in the material, not with how much you've
>impacted the culture outside the recording booth. i don't care
>about that stuff. what was on the PAGE?!?! because for me, all
>that's left of who a rapper IS/WAS lives on the page. that's
>the essence.
>
I actually think he's got a lot of moments of lyrical brilliance (admittedly not really much on this album) over the course of his career but we can leave it here.

I'm just hoping the podcast (which I'm about to throw on) is more focused on TKO being mad about the Lakers then about Hov's new album. peace.

it was more about Whitlock's article.

Some good stuff in this ep that I can't get from any other podcast source....'The Last Days Of Go-Go', the NBA/hip-hop's uneasy coexistence, the point of disillusionment with sports reporting, the Denzel theater reaction, etc.

thanks for the props, dogg. really appreciate the support.

6/10

Magna Carta... Holy Grail isn't going to stop being divisive any time soon. That much I think we can say with certainty. Opinions on just about every moment on this record appear up for grabs, in part thanks to a engagingly distracting marketing plan involving Samsung and #newrules. One of the #newrules #TeamHov seemed to overlook in this increasingly bizarre release strategy is that, by cutting a majority of one's rabid fanbase out of the zeitgeist moment, you invite a torrenting typhoon. <http://torrentfreak.com/jay-zs-exclusive-album-release-triggers-a-piracy-bonanza-130705/ ,Torrent Freak> reported record-breaking transfer rates for the album, which Jay-Z's team may have been abe to spin positively if not for the fact pirating out of a phone app led to all kinds of audio artifacting and general lossy files misbehavior.

For many, this album will probably always be defined by that sepia-toned version of the record, which is a shame because in its full splendor Magna Carta...Holy Grail actually serves quote a few of the masters folks have been complaining Jay's uninterested in since the release of Blueprint 3. He makes some very odd choices subject matter-wise, and it's undeniable that there are verses on here (that we'll get to a little later) that just...end, Jay's newly-energetic bounce (reminiscent of his Volume 2 / Volume 3 period) dramatically petering out long before the bridge or chorus comes around and the artiste embarrassingly self-satisfied with mediocre language. But there are other moments where Jay is so candid and honest about the way he feels about the dichotomous way his present relates to his past...

For example, the final verse on "Picasso Baby". It's a little wandering, and doesn't even feel all that true in terms of how police officers respond to Jay's presence, but his paranoia over the way anonymous citizens disparage his daughter is very real, as is his disappointment in the ways people keep telling him to hang up his headphones just because he's on the wrong end of 40. One could also point to the way Jay-Z closes "Crown", another paranoia-ridden track about his trepidation towards success, and see Jay mining similar territory as the conscious-vs-material arguments scattered throughout 2004's The Black Album.

The problem is that, much like Yeezus, a finely captivating performance and some of the cleanest, more interesting production of the year is marred by some of the most vain vocals a hip-hop listener can expect to hear. Jay will stumble upon lovely little moments of language ("Boat dock in front of Hermes picking cotton" ; "See me in shit you never saw / If it wasn't for these pictures you wouldn't see me at all," "Oceans") but against the entirety of a verse with useless cocaine references and glanced-at allusions to the Middle Passage and juxtaposing Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit" against July 4th, the Samsung phone release date of the album, they are just moments of coincidence. At every turn you can hear hints of Jay-Z's slight discomfort over having become a brand, a consumable for the public to chew up and spit out. It's just, Lamborghinis and Basquiats keep getting in the way, and who is any modern human being to blame another for succumbing to distraction, he asks.

There's really no shame in Jay-Z rapping about the life he's been describing ever since "comeback" record Kingdom Come. I don't particularly care that I can't relate to "going ape at the auction" or "blue bloods...trying to clown on me"; the issue with Magna Carta...Holy Grail lies in a lack of subtlety best exemplified by the opening track, the Justin Timberlake dominated "Holy Grail". Tucked into the middle of the song is an exceptionally engaging Jay-Z moment complete with a super funky breakdown near the end Jay wastes on stringing a series of "niggas" together as rhyme like his protegé, J. Cole. But for most of it's five and a half minutes, we've got Justin Timberlake wandering around, warbling about some woman neither of these men are dealing with (unless we're to believe Jessica Biel and Beyoncé are some kind of succubi) in the dark.

What makes coming to a conclusion about Magna Carta...Holy Grail distressing is that despite all of these complaints, for 58 minutes I'm finding it hard to argue there are much more entertaining albums out there this year. Jay-Z's on his C-game a lot of the time here as far as the words, but in terms of presence and performance it's hard to find a more engaged Jay-Z at any point in the post-Young Chris era. Hearing him awkwardly repurpose early-90s indie rock in an effort to prove he's not just talking shit in interviews is goofy but I've got to enjoy that about this Jay-Z, a 43-year old half-a-billionaire singing Nirvana lyrics earnestly on an album only money could buy. His attempts to mine memes out of his subjects, such as "Somewhere in America"'s "twerk Miley, Miley twerk" coda, are almost always clumsy but his conviction in them is always admirable.

In the end, Magna Carta...Holy Grail has to be a disappointment if only because Timbaland (with Jerome Harmon's helping hand) handling most of the music here and that not resulting in a chasm of god-awful pop-tart garbage is tantamount to any number of small miracles, and yet Jay-Z rewards that effort with his least-concentrated set of lyrics maybe ever. But the album doesn't seem as though it will be able to exist on those terms; it's instead being measured by the amount of times we can refer to Jay-Z's many corporate sponsorships and 1%er business opportunities, in all the ways we can find to praise what Jay-Z represents to the pop world while belittling all that he does with that power. Magna Carta...Holy Grail lacks the year-defining singles that made Blueprint 3 evade "flop" status, but it's undeniably the most cohesive thing Jay's been a part of since the original Blueprint.

At 43-years old, Jay-Z's made an exceptionally contemporary hip-hop album that succeeds on every leg but the one Jay's always most readily admitted he struggles standing on for long periods of time. As a fun, interesting summer solstice I believe the guy's done his job, and honest to God Jay-Z fans shouldn't have much to be worried about with this release. It's the folks that hide behind Samsung as an excuse to dislike #MCHG, rather than blame Jay-Z directly as a rapper, that fear this album and vice versa. It's fun to throw unironic quotes around his infamous, "I'm not a businessman, I'm a business, man" one-liner and wax poetic about what that means for his art, but let's not forget there's actually an album here that Jay-Z clearly had a concrete vision and excitement for, or that hip-hop royalty in 2013 encompasses a fair amount more than on-paper lyricism.

The fact of the matter is, Jay-Z probably just can't carry an entire album anymore if you're a lyrics head. But Jay was always custom built for a world where beats take precedence over rhymes - one could argue he's the most influential artist in birthing that formula - and Magna Carta is that quite explicitly. I'm willing to be fine with that.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

im willing to accept some bullshit bc Jay Z made it

-------------------------
“Floyd Mayweather should be taking fights up to 157 or 160 pounds...His frame can hold the weight..it's not even a lot of weight....Go to the gym and lift weights man..lol.”-- Warren Coolidge

nor as bad its detractors want it to be. Hating Jay for talking about money in 2013 is kinda ridiculous. He's always done that.

On the other hand, pretending Jay is still anywhere near the rapper he once was is equally dumb. I'm not entirely sure where his sense of humor went but it's rarely present on this album.

Some good beats with Jay not interfering with my enjoyment of them.

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

What the hell are you people talking about? This shit is really weak.\

Production is mediocre, lyrics too

Where maxxx at? This is LAY-Z to the nth degree

acting like he's a man of the people, but really just being a capitalist poster boy Ayn Rand would be proud of

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/jay-z-magna-carta--holy-grail-review-when-fans-are-reduced-to-customers/2013/07/08/6293ba7c-e7de-11e2-aa9f-c03a72e2d342_story.html

Just a lot of talk about Samsung and references to the "I'm a business, man" line.

I don't know, man. The album is far from flawless, but all these holier-than-thou reviews from bourgeois writers at places like The Washington Post (and other trusted sources of hip-hop criticism) rub me the wrong way a little bit.

but it's popmatters so it's generally irrelevant as far as mad making. always kind of bums me out, the only time fans have ever chewed me out is when I compared Nicki Minaj to Tracy McGrady post-back injury.


http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/173334-jay-z-magna-carta-holy-grail/


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

way. . and I remember years ago believe it or not, you and I championing Jay from that kind of elitist criticism. But, well, I'm sorry man, 1. I just think Jay is terrible now. Like, unlistenable. and 2. his rags to riches story just isn't inspiring anymore. Any time ANYONE criticizes Jay he pulls the "I ain't even supposed to be here. . " card. That's great. You won monopoly! You're the exception to the rule! In my opinion its not something to strive for for the rest of us. Jay is the 1%, he is the epitome of a capitalist. Everyone "respects" him as a businessman. C'mon yo, we all know A LOT of luck and timing was involved in his success. I just can't bare listening to dude anymore. Watch The Throne was cool at least 'cause it sounded good. This shit is just a snoozefest. He's done. I mean, its no coincidence we're talking about Samsung and business man etc. This album sounds like he made it in one day for Samsung. And the line about a champagne bottle spraying in an empty locker room is SPOT on.

I mean, when is everyone going to realize that the "hustle hard" era of Hip-Hop, ala mid to late 2000's, was a fuckin' joke. Hustle for what? Post economic crash, Occupy etc. should show us that only the top of the top make any significant money, and Jay is at the bottom of the top in the grand scheme of things. Let that dude go. That's not something to aspire to in my opinion. Its a fantasy.

He told his stories worth telling a long time ago.

put out some bullshit glorifying being a self centered asshole, in keeping w/ America in 2013, have "mainstream" outlets criticize it so that this bullshit becomes viewed as some sort of bizarre "rebel music" by ppl who are deluded by the mythos of Jay Z

"WHHHAAAAT? Jay-Z is still rapping about being rich and being the best. Oh my God. I can't relate to this. I can relate to fake drug dealers, molly poppers and fucking bitches. But this...THIS doesn't speak to me."

If his earlier albums were about how rich he was going to be and his later albums are about how rich he's become, what part of his journey were you expecting to hear about?


-------------------
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work overalll despite his boasting of wealth etc. but that's what made it complicated. Now its simplistic.

as a matter of fact there was a few beats where I actually wished someone else got the track instead, and I'm a big Jay fan... I actually think he did Timbaland a disservice on some of these tracks

gave it a good few listens the past few days and while I'm nodding my head to the production lyrically what is so good about this? I see people saying the lyrics will "go over some people's heads?" really?

I love Jay on "bitch don't kill my vibe" too. so I can sacrifice rhymes for flow with him now, but, jeez, like how did nobody tell him "la familia" was a bad idea? too many yes men?

I get that you don't like him calling you out in public like that. However, the man is a legend and deserves to be talked about with respect. He's an elder. I didn't appreciate him calling him Deyo man.

by choice... smart move.
http://www.rap-up.com/2013/07/09/jay-z-receives-platinum-plaque-for-magna-carta-holy-grail/

Target, Dimple, nothing.
Oh we'll.
I'll listen to this new skylar grey album then.

The only beat that I really took a liking to is Hit-Boy's track. I'm comfortable saying that I can now move on from being a Jay-Z fan. His music no longer resonates with me or speak to me in any kind of way. I'm good on him. I'll listen to his classics that I grew up with out of nostalgia and because the quality is there. But as for now. I'm good on Hov.

Too many niggas starving in poverty right now for me to fill my ears with this elitist 1% narcissistic capitalist pretentious bullshit.

>The only beat that I really took a liking to is Hit-Boy's
>track. I'm comfortable saying that I can now move on from
>being a Jay-Z fan. His music no longer resonates with me or
>speak to me in any kind of way. I'm good on him. I'll listen
>to his classics that I grew up with out of nostalgia and
>because the quality is there. But as for now. I'm good on
>Hov.
>
>Too many niggas starving in poverty right now for me to fill
>my ears with this elitist 1% narcissistic capitalist
>pretentious bullshit.

Somewhere in America was great until he rhymed math with math

Like, that Washington Post review really hit it on the head when they said the sound of the album is "the sound of someone popping bottles of champagne in an empty locker room" or whatever.

Jay used to be more diverse...you could definitely hear him having fun on songs. Now, he seems all pent-up. His bars don't convey any feelings.

Obviously he shit on just about all of his Roc fam at one point or another. Maybe that shit finally got to him and now he realizes he's a (rich) miserable curmudgeon since he fucked his friends over.

I dunno. Something is just "off."

Also, what is his obsession with trying to make Beyonce into some down-ass bad bitch? Like c'mon dude, she's a church girl at heart and now a mother...all while being filthy paid.

Jay needs to chill.

>
YO!!!!!!!

Thats it right there I dont think there needs to be anymore discussioun Jay is in Mid life crisis... some kinda male menopausal ... something.. because its like jordan before he retired ... jordan would do lay ups when before he would slam it home... this album is full of lay ups and finger rolls.

>
shessh!...harsh...but real point.

That's the reason his album is weak

I didn't even know Nas was on this, was pleasantly surprised when BBC came on (very sneaky that he wasn't credited as a "featuring" artist). Timbaland did his thing, and Jay got some nice flows on this.

This album sounds awful? The music is excellent but the rhymes are not great. I listen to music through JBL speakers.


Check out NEW Soul music at: www.myspace.com/starbeing

Bumpin in the STEREO:
Gladys Knight&The Pips
Slave-Stone Jam
Kelly Rowland -Talk A Good Game
Adrian Marcel-RS Presents..
Quadron-Avalanche

anyway, i'm loving the album. looking forward to copping the vinyl soon

Some of the beats on this album are CRAZY and Jigga does nothing to compliment them.

D -

Maybe the only reason I haven't deleted this album yet.

A dope verse will follow a shitty one on the same song.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I was the same way when I heard it http://youtu.be/4I4Ov02qlTo?t=1m59s

1. It's a sign of the times that the album officially dropped July 8 for non-Samsung users, but we've already cemented our collective feelings about the album in only a week. Although this isn't an entirely new process, I wish we'd take more time to let albums sink in with our most-anticipated, over-hyped artists.

2. I'm wondering if Nas and Jay have both made a concerted effort to mention Big and Pac on most of their albums. The references on MCHG and LIG both felt very natural, but it has happened so consistently it almost feels that they have decided it's almost their duty to keep them alive through their music. (Would Pac and Big have done the same if they were the ones still going?) Any thoughts on this?

3. Overall, after many listens, this is still a very good record. Beats and rhymes. Jay is flowing his ass off, and lyrically, songs like "Oceans" are among his best work ever. I've added "Glory" and "Open Letter" to my official copy to round things out. I think all things considered, MCHG's an 7.5-8.5/10 and falls somewhere in the middle of Jay's discography.

I tried really I did but listening to these rhymes is not an enjoyable experience. Can you really say he is rhyming better on this than bp3. Everybody hates kingdom come but the rhymes on that are miles beyond the best rhymes on this.

most of them sounded horribly empty and lifeless...yuck