or should I say, Andre 3ooo's promise
for those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, at the 95 Source Awards OutKast won the award for Best New Group
this caused an indoors shitstorm which resulted in Dre saying "The South got something to say"
having said that, it's become painfully obvious that there has been a lot of wasted potential as far as The South running shit for the past 1o years or so, in fact you could say everything they started has been put in reverse to a degree (live instruments over sampling/synths, innovative flows, heady but easily relatable subject matter)
even artists are scared to say it because everytime you ask one of them about newer artists from their region (except Scarface, dude will tell you in a heartbeat as a whole these new niggas ain't doing it) all they can say is 'I'm glad they're successful' which seems like an attempt to not step on someone's toes or hurt future business relations
so while rappers are more successful now than ever, there's not much in the way of innovation
(also there are no more groups, just loose collectives that rotate members in and out and whoever the public latches onto will make his own collective and the cycle contiues for as long as non-rapping niggers can stand it)
but there's no need to because the key is sounding just like everyone else while giving off enuff of yourself so nobody buys the other guy's record by mistake (which even that wouldn't be such a bad thing because these niggers are all over one another's albums now)

Kuntry

Than at any other point in my lifetime.


So if Andre lied, it's only because he told a different truth. For me, the south is still where it's at. Bullshit records by Rich Kidz and Future all the way to K.R.I.T., Kyleon and Curren$y. They're my shit.

~~~~~~~~~
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and I definitely didn't say there weren't exceptions
but as a whole you know most of it is like eating marshmallows; it might taste good every now and again if you're in the mood for it, but there's no way you can sustain yourself on it

After '98/'99? Why isn't Organized Noize the influential mastodon in the South that they should've been, the exception rather than the rule (as you pretty much said)?

Because I suppose I can feel that. Moreso since 2005 and the rise of Jeezy and T.I. Southern rap is still the fresh shit, but if I were going to draw a parallel to NYC for example, even from their golden age to five years later in 2000 they still had a very different, forward-thinking (some/many would say whack) direction. But the south is still on their same 808 snare breakdown shit.

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>After '98/'99? Why isn't Organized Noize the influential
>mastodon in the South that they should've been, the exception
>rather than the rule (as you pretty much said)?
>

RIGHT
but, as you implied, its not as much about any one person as it is the potential of a whole region that was squandered to cash in


>Because I suppose I can feel that. Moreso since 2005 and the
>rise of Jeezy and T.I. Southern rap is still the fresh shit,
>but if I were going to draw a parallel to NYC for example,
>even from their golden age to five years later in 2000 they
>still had a very different, forward-thinking (some/many would
>say whack) direction. But the south is still on their same 808
>snare breakdown shit.
>

that's one of the things I'm getting at
Hip Hop itself started out with the same sound, for the most part, that we hear today on the radio
but the thing is that out of that there was an expansion into other shit and that's where the culture thrived
part of the reason Hip Hop is a bit disheartening to me is because the place that created it had this great blossoming and now its following instead of leading

#NumbersDon'tLie I think.

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He used to be on a whole different steez before he decided he wanted to be Kanye West. "Product Of The Game" is the only song of his that I can fuck with over the last few years (although the name dropping is on Game levels)

I'm still trying to find a rapper in my city who I can PROUDLY rep.

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even tho I see why it didn't catch on but that's not his fault

I thought he was gonna make more noise regionally though, I'm kinda shocked he hasn't though

might be making the move over there soon if a lot of things fall through for me.

DJ-wise it's been stacked for years, but there's recently been a huge influx of new MCs who DON'T aspire to be the next Jeezy (I see that as a good thing). While some of them do cling to Kanye/Drake/Lupe's nuts a little too hard, at least they're trying to be creative with the lyrics/flows.

My monthly hip-hop party, The Boom Bap (me and 2 other DJs on 4 turntables), recently featured The Foreign Exchange and they rocked it.

Black Milk was in town recording with Jack White a few weeks ago, and he was definitely digging the crowd that showed up for his performance.

Talib Kweli is in town this week.

Basically there's more shows from big-name acts than ever before, and the underground is pretty fertile right now. I can't complain. Definitely hit me up if you're in town. Anyone who's down with the Red Eye Jedi is cool with me haha

me and a couple of other guys been meaning to get out to Nashville for a while, got one cat that's out there now, don't know if you've heard of him, but he goes by Z.Matt. He's not an emcee, I forget what instrument he plays, but he's a hip hop head. The scene there sounds like what's going on down here minus the acts heading here though. Definitely gonna have to get down there now man.

at least on the first part of that statement, as a whole

(in a man's crease)?

>(in a man's crease)?

can't u just enjoy musicians from everywhere without throwing signs up in the air? you fucking idiots?


~~~

http://soundcloud.com/dr-mindriot/

you're wrong on so many levels tho.

but you've yet to tell me how I'm wrong

two words... JAY ELECTRONICA !!!!

ReturnOf4eva and Oneirology?

read the post again
I never said anything derogatory about The South
I said they didn't live up to Dre's promise, outside of a few exceptions (the two albums you named, while great records, don't disprove my point)

you're smarter than that

but that doesn't have anything to do with the South really, just the climate of the industry (we'd rather foot the bill for one nigger than 12)

I don't wanna hear D12.


I wanna hear Wu-Tang.

clear channel and viacom ......

and while those two companies are certainly on my shit list, it doesn't really explain my sentiment totally

they control a good percentage of whats being heard
media deregulation killed the local sound at the radio station and created nationwide playlists.i think people need to start looking at the media companies and radio stations.
just a thought

its sort of like how WalMart wants all their stores to be uniform so no matter where you are you can find everything in the same spot

yep and the south happen to be the sound when it happened.....if deregulation happened five years earlier, g funk probably would be the prevailing sound

>or should I say, Andre 3ooo's promise
>for those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, at
>the 95 Source Awards OutKast won the award for Best New Group
>this caused an indoors shitstorm which resulted in Dre saying
>"The South got something to say"
>having said that, it's become painfully obvious that there has
>been a lot of wasted potential as far as The South running
>shit for the past 1o years or so, in fact you could say
>everything they started has been put in reverse to a degree
>(live instruments over sampling/synths, innovative flows,
>heady but easily relatable subject matter)
>even artists are scared to say it because everytime you ask
>one of them about newer artists from their region (except
>Scarface, dude will tell you in a heartbeat as a whole these
>new niggas ain't doing it) all they can say is 'I'm glad
>they're successful' which seems like an attempt to not step on
>someone's toes or hurt future business relations
>so while rappers are more successful now than ever, there's
>not much in the way of innovation
>(also there are no more groups, just loose collectives that
>rotate members in and out and whoever the public latches onto
>will make his own collective and the cycle contiues for as
>long as non-rapping niggers can stand it)
>but there's no need to because the key is sounding just like
>everyone else while giving off enuff of yourself so nobody
>buys the other guy's record by mistake (which even that
>wouldn't be such a bad thing because these niggers are all
>over one another's albums now)

But ok.

...and this was my response.
You're a funny dude.

not all rappers/acts that came out of the South were on Kast level
but they had something to say, we heard it
some of it was some POO POO, and the industry seemed to like the POO POO more than the P.A.s of the bunch (lol @ Drama, what's that jabroni doing nowadays).
had the South had more artists out on national/major labels in the '90s before A&Rs got wise to the cash cow mentality it would have been a different story.

'something to say'
and it wasn't about rims and trappin'
they already had that shit out
but like I said, there was a HUGE opportunity for things to go a certain way and they didn't take it

I think what Dre was responding to the lack of open minds people had about what was coming from the South. Not necessarily that we have more important, more substantive things to say. Back then, all folks wanted was the opportunity without the bias.


As far as the opportunity being squandered...how so? I mean what were southern rappers supposed to do with it?

>I think what Dre was responding to the lack of open minds
>people had about what was coming from the South. Not
>necessarily that we have more important, more substantive
>things to say. Back then, all folks wanted was the
>opportunity without the bias.
>
>

and the same call for open-mindedness has been shut down by The South itself-you won't be taken seriously if you don't do what all of them do


>As far as the opportunity being squandered...how so? I mean
>what were southern rappers supposed to do with it?

ummm I dunno how about put forth an effort to NOT sound like the nigger that just came out last week?
look at what came out of The West
there's a lot more going on out there than just the G shit, and it has been for longer than people think
The North, same thing-in the best days of the music, there's never been more variety and high quality
its just the same old shit, like it or not, that comes from The South as of now
and I'm not the only one that thinks this, even Southern artists say that shit

>>I think what Dre was responding to the lack of open minds
>>people had about what was coming from the South. Not
>>necessarily that we have more important, more substantive
>>things to say. Back then, all folks wanted was the
>>opportunity without the bias.
>>
>>
>
>and the same call for open-mindedness has been shut down by
>The South itself-you won't be taken seriously if you don't do
>what all of them do

This goes on from region to region though. New York to Cali, ain't shit changed it that respect. I think calling out southern artists for doing it (if I take what you're saying as fact) is a bit disingeuous.

>
>>As far as the opportunity being squandered...how so? I mean
>>what were southern rappers supposed to do with it?
>
>ummm I dunno how about put forth an effort to NOT sound like
>the nigger that just came out last week?
>look at what came out of The West
>there's a lot more going on out there than just the G shit,
>and it has been for longer than people think
>The North, same thing-in the best days of the music, there's
>never been more variety and high quality
>its just the same old shit, like it or not, that comes from
>The South as of now
>and I'm not the only one that thinks this, even Southern
>artists say that shit

I think the existence of the Dungeon Family debunks this statement. When you start talking about the different labels that dominated the South back then the diversity even widens. Each label (and their artists) brought something different to the table and worked that lane to a certain success.

Sure, the biggest artists in the south might be on some 'G shit', but I think you and I both know that southern artists, just like any other region of hip-hop artists are more than that. (g shit that is...)

1-I never called them out, I just said Dre's promise hasn't been made good on a as a whole
2-why you'd bring up Dungeon to disprove my argument, I don't know
especially when I said from the gate there are exceptions

>some of it was some POO POO, and the industry seemed to like
>the POO POO more than the P.A.s of the bunch (lol @ Drama,
>what's that jabroni doing nowadays).
>had the South had more artists out on national/major labels in
>the '90s before A&Rs got wise to the cash cow mentality it
>would have been a different story.
>


It's not the artists that dictate who/what gets shine, hell, not even the fans at this point. It's The Industry (labels, program directors, press, tastemakers) picking and choosing the "top dawgs".

Fault can definitely be laid at the feet of some artists, but as fans embraced and continued to show heavy support for particular styles, the Industry said "Fuck it, if this is what they want, let's give'em more, and fuck everything else." It was a wrap for diversity and balance. Now they basically tell audiences "THIS is the shit you will like" even if most people ain't feeling it.

if people cared more about where they spent their money we wouldn't be having this discussion
all you gotta do is not support the shit and you won't have to worry about it being shoved down your throat

I don't think people need to stop supporting it if they really like it. Despite the current state of music, North, South, wherever, you like what you like...I mean, even if the labels are dictating the styles, and for all the force feeding, there is SOMEONE truly feeling it enough to still lay down money for a CD or concert ticket. I detest the lemmings/sheeple aspects of people, but alot of the music still fulfills a need, regardless of quality **sigh**.

That's why I say it's really about balance....alternatives. A return to a more multi-faceted mainstream music scene. It can't be all socially conscious or super-lyrical or party or trap rap, etc...

but the majority of the money is made from people that flock to shit because its new or because everyone else is on it
I'm not saying there isn't a time or place for it but people LIVE to this shit
thats the part that really bothers me

not all them was saying what Kast or Goodie was saying but it was something different..

Now you don't got to like all of it I mean who does I don't but they def had something to say and finally got people to listen.

nothing more nothing less
and I hope its clear I'm not being all-inclusive because some of the best records ever released came from The South
you know how niggers half read shit

that was probably the first thing that came to his mind that was politically correct enough to be said aloud.

i'm sure he didn't imagine that it would have legs.

and seeing as though he kinda took niggas to task (on their own songs, nonetheless) with those remix appearances he was making some years back, i don't think he'd imagined or envisioned that *THAT* was what the south had to say.

>that was probably the first thing that came to his mind that
>was politically correct enough to be said aloud.
>

I don't overrate it at all, really, but it seems fans do
its obvious it was off the cuff, and a demand for respect, but people have overblown it since then and say it as truth and I dispute that


>i'm sure he didn't imagine that it would have legs.
>

I didn't either, actually


>and seeing as though he kinda took niggas to task (on their
>own songs, nonetheless) with those remix appearances he was
>making some years back, i don't think he'd imagined or
>envisioned that *THAT* was what the south had to say.

my point exactly, but these niggers get offended when people call buulshit on shit they like and feel the need to defend fellow niggers that don't know they even exist, or don't care they exist for that matter

He was commenting on the struggles (see Elevators) faced by Outkast to prevail in an atmosphere generally toxic to new ideas. The "got something to say" is a way of reassuring himself that a connection has been made, ("I knew I didn't have to dumb myself down"). I get a VERY strong sense after listening to Aquemini, that the group saw the South state of hip hop as Dungeon Family versus pimps and tricks. Don't seem like he was expecting much else from anybody but them.

but I do agree with everything you said tho

think about the current music. maybe not UGK cause Bun B seems to be down w/ any and everybody who has ever tried to rap.

(well, not all of them are in the streets)
but as far as rapping, from what I understand he's not too enthused with the way they put together records
he likes some songs here and there but he's right when he says the art of making albums is lost on them

ignorant ass nigguhz made the black/american negro race even more of a laughing stock to those around the world.

PEENPULSER

>PEENPULSER

I mean I understand it to a certain extent because the biggest stars in southern rap (e.g. Rick Ross, Waka Flocka, Gucci) are continuing to deliver banal lyrics to listeners, which does not correlate with what Andre said (if you interpreted it as 'southern rappers can provide originality through quality lyricism'). So if you expected the south to be more supreme than any other region in terms of rap music then yeah, Andre lied.

However, mainstream rap in general, not just regionally, has become devoid of originality. So no one really has anything to say (in the mainstream © Outkast).

In contrast, If you extend the scope beyond mainstream rap, there are plenty of southern rappers who have 'something to say.' Krit, Chamillionaire, Little Brother, and Jay Electronica to name a few.

I'm sure that many older New York rappers feel that the contemporary popular rappers from their respective region are mundane and subpar just as the older southern rappers feel about their new rappers.

While I do agree that most popular rappers deliver similar subject matter, this isn't just a southern issue, its mainstream rap period. There are plenty of innovative southern MCs, that don't get their respect because the masses do not want to hear 'unconventional' lyrics and dismiss a lot of it as boho rap.

when I say 'promise' I mean potential
and like I said, theres always exceptions so its not all-inclusive
there could have been a serious paradigm shift culturally, but what this era will be remembered for won't be much

secondly, how doe one qualify your statement? I can rattle off a list of southern hiphop acts that were as diverse and as dope as any music in hiphop history.

I don't get what you're trying to convey

stay out grown folk before grown folk stay in you
kapeesh?

I said several times there are exceptions, doesn't make me any less right

I don't understand what you're saying, seriously

But how many exceptions can there be until you are wrong?

I mean, you say they ain't saying shit or followed up on Dre's statement - but then cats name solid artists like LB, Jay Elec, CunninLynguists, J Cole, Curren$y, Lil Wayne, Big KRIT, etc etc the list goes on and you just call them all exceptions. And that's not even mentioning the old guard, which continues to pump out some solid shit here and there.

You can't keep saying they are exceptions when the South is pretty much the only region coming out with solid music right now, probably has some of the only creative hip hop acts to come out in the last few years, all while the rest of the country has become a joke.

But other than that, I see your point. Balance is key in any genre, not just southern rap.

and not jumping on some shit I didn't even say in the first place

don't understand the hate for this post, you're not discrediting the south at all, just inferring that it had more to offer us. Pimp C was saying the exact same thing in his classic Atlanta interview, the sensational headlines from that interview were about him dissing the ATL, but his real underlying point was that the new south had reverted to rapper archetypes and caricatures based on the giants of the past. He wanted to bring the subjective back into southern rap the way Goodie Mob did with the gospel/church infusion in their style; not saying everybody has to bring that specific style, but the gospel in Goodie Mob was subjective, it separated them from anybody else the way UGK's use of live instruments did.


Pimp C was prophetic in that interview when he warned that if the styles didn't switch up, and bring back the originality the south is known for, the hip hop community would shift its focus to another region — to some extent it already has.



Another point that really lends credence to this post is examining the number of classic albums that came out of a region during that region's dominant period. With the south it feels as if all of the classic albums (SPCM, Soul Food, Comin out Hard, etc) were prematurely birthed before the region blew up on a national level in the early 00's. And during the south's dominance all we got was a bunch of singles with not many memorable albums to date.







>even artists are scared to say it because everytime you ask
>one of them about newer artists from their region (except
>Scarface, dude will tell you in a heartbeat as a whole these
>new niggas ain't doing it) all they can say is 'I'm glad
>they're successful' which seems like an attempt to not step on
>someone's toes or hurt future business relations


Scarface does keep it real, but I feel like Bun B has been rather complicit in some of this. He's not totally at fault tho, because if Pimp hadn't died his career would still have direction, he wouldn't need to be on every joe schmo's guest spot.

Bun B/Killa Mike thinking man's gangster music

to scarface's grown man business

to Little Brother's College Rap

to J. Cole's coming of age music

to Cee-lo's mr everything approach

and literally dozen of cats in the underground trying to do every one of those styles, plus cats in the underground like Pill, Hollyweerd, HEED, Spree Wilson, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Now if you're talking about mainstream commercial shit? Well, I don't think there'll ever be too many genre-busting hit artists in MOST genres, cuz there just normally aren't.

*shrugs*

I dunno...I think music, in general, is more diverse than its been in quite some time, and I'm happy bout it

all of it is filtered now
it used to be one station in every city that played pretty much whatever you wanted to hear, no matter the genre, and if they didn't have it they'd get it and play it for you
you can't do that shit now because everything is pre-pogrammed

i dont get why you are still expecting them to diversify terrestrial radio.

folks are online...discovering the diversity in music and their own personal niches via blogs, podcasts, youtube, etc.

Basically the basis of your argument may have been compelling in 2005 or so....2011 im wondering why you're even wasting your time.

Obviously Garhart's criticism has nothing to do with the artists and music coming out the South - instead, it seems to be a criticism of the radio and popular culture, which will NEVER change regardless of who comes out with what.

Great artists coming out the South like Curren$y and KRIT can pump out great music, but that won't ever change what's on the radio. Ain't their fault.

The south has something for everyone that's why artists are still on.

If you're into introspective everyday rap J.Cole/BIG KRIT can hold you down.

If you're into grown man business 8Ball and MJG/UGK/Scarface can hold you down.

Love to party? The south got plenty of that music.

You want music with substance and positivity go check out Atlanta's own B.O.B.

These aren't wack artists. They're all polished.

Hating on the south is so 1999.

&& JAY ELECTRONICA ..the most promising emcee in the game

go think about that and stew that asshole for a while

>You want music with substance and positivity go check out
>Atlanta's own B.O.B.
>
>These aren't wack artists. They're all polished.


BoBs album was a kidz bop album, and this is coming from someone who lived in the south for most of his life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy-PXWYHH5E&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJXp1hjuY_0&feature=player_embedded

LOL she's gonna wreck it for the rest,,,,,

I see you're not a big fan of sarcasm.

not your comment

:)

I've been saying this for years as well. I never connected it to 3000's statement, nor would I call that a promise, but I would 100% agree that the shit the South is pumping out now, is far from what 3000 was talking about.

and every time this topic is brought up, you have a circus of folks with a circus of excuses saying, "you're mad the South is hot right now" or "you're only talking of a small % of artists down here" or "the North is worse than the South" etc etc etc. and Bun B, as much as I like him as an MC, is disappointing to me as he continues to co-sign pure bullshit hip-hop that the South is known for.

of course, not all the South's hip-hop is wack, but to act as though what is in the forefront isn't wack, is nothing more than denial. and the biggest problem is that people from the South ride for whatever is popular PERIOD. that is where the bullshit comes in.

people up North will tell you when something or someone isn't coming hard. I completely agree with the poster above who said that the South had their own style with the live instrumentations, the gospel vibe, the intelligent street view point, etc etc. but now, it's all preset casio keyboard sounds with the most ignorant shit on top.

there is NO way i hell you can tell me that the South has remained true to what it was all about. Soul Food may very well be the album that BEST defines the sound that the South brought to the table and the feel they inserted into the game. and now, it's is so far removed from that soulfulness that it's damn near unbelievable.

and for those who will argue that "you can't just keep doing the same thing", I would say, that is true but the idea of progression is not to move light years backwards in quality.

moreso than proclaiming to deliver something
but I do agree with you, wholeheartedly even

Rappers only rap about what they want to tell people whether it be truthful, fiction, or half & half, but rap listeners actually thinking that southern rappers were going to promise them something worth listening to lyrically is laughable but the same goes for all regions of the U.S.

J A Y E L E C T R O N I C A ...damn, & you call yourself a dj ..smh

Poor black things.