I think this could be interesting, especially in cases where there's no 100% co-sign from everyone. For example...many folks, maybe even Biggie himself, say that Cube influenced Biggie, but I just never heard it.

So yea...list a Rapper, and list the rappers you think influenced their style most...whether it was at the beginning of their career, or even the middle and end, since many of them have changed styles several times.

And by influence...I mean with everything...content, flow, delivery, etc etc

I cant stand how people just skip over tragedy

his influence over Nas is way greater and more apparent than Rakims

They were from the same projects Nas had direct access to watchin Trag

Trag's "The Rebel" is the basis for the Illmatic lp

But hearing Nas on the BBQ track, or his multis on NY State of mind "My rhymin is a vitamin held without a capsule" that shit sounds 110% Rakim to me

The Rebel- www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3G-K2XDVBI

Live Motivator- www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQAwcZZ3uVA

That's Nas, even in 2012.

http://www.unkut.com/2010/10/tragedy-khadafi-the-unkut-interview-part-1/

Tragedy speaking on it in an interview. nOTICE HE DOESNT WANT TO CALL OUT nAS BUT ITS APPARENT THAT THATS who he is talking about (sorry about caps)

Marley recently stated that he feels that your second verse on ‘Live Motivator’ was the blueprint for the Queensbridge rhyme style. Do you agree?

I’m not gonna mention no names, but if you listen to that song, and you look at the date of when that song came out , and then you go down a few years and then you hear another profound lyricist come out of the Bridge, you can kinda see where that type of style sparked that other individual. And then you could look at him and look at his date when he dropped and see how the ones that came after him – how he sparked them. So I think that’s pretty accurate in what Marley said. At that particular time, I was Queensbridge. Craig G is nice, but Craig G wasn’t necessarily spitting with a street type of style. Craig G was just a nice MC. My lifestyle and upbringing was a lot different – I emerged from the street. My house was like the corner, so I brung that energy to the music. You had the Juice Crew, but the Juice Crew in it’s totality didn’t represent Queensbridge. Marley represented Queensbridge as a producer. Shan represented Queensbridge in a sense that he made the theme song to the Bridge, but Shan wasn’t originally from Queensbridge – Shan is originally from Brooklyn – and Shan wasn’t in the streets like that. Craig G lived on the block and Craig was just a nice MC. G Rap didn’t live in Queensbridge, Biz Markie didn’t live in Queensbridge, Kane didn’t live in Queensbridge. Roxanne Shante lived in Queensbridge, but she was just a ill female MC. I believe that when I came I represented the streets of Queensbridge when I rhymed. I was the kid who hung-out with the hustlers – I was the kid who started hustling! I was the kid who did robberies, so I brought that energy to the track. I’m not proud of that, I’m just stating the facts. That was all Queensbridge coming out of me at that time. That’s all I knew!

this is also what Tragedy was reffering to in his quote

http://www.unkut.com/2010/06/the-birth-of-the-queensbridge-rhyme-style/

If you caught the Special Edition of Marley Marl‘s In Control Vol. 1 then you would have caught the commentary from the man himself introducing each track. According to Marley, Tragedy’s second verse on ‘Live Motivator’ was the official birth of the QB style:


Marley Marl - ‘Live Motivator Intro’


"I’ve always had an appreciation for just how influential Trag was to Bridge Rap, but to be able to pin-point the exact moment that it actually began on record is fascinating….it’s all about the second verse"

pt 3- www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcBqc2SG7Dg

He kind of sabatoged his own career going in and out of jail

while his 2 cuts on Marley Marl in Control vol 1 he was in jail (he was under 18)

got back out droped his solo Intelligent Hodlum lp then 2nd lp then went to jail again

fast forward recently he just got back out again

plus he has a real rough upbringing

dude has lived a long life for being so young

thats why they called him Tragedy

he also discovered CNN so his contributions are still present

u should peep the whole documentary its the best hip hop bio/doc Ive seen

...i feel like he if just went by just plain "Tragedy", he would have been better off ...he went from being a "Super Kid", to "MC Percy", to "Tragedy", to "Intelligent Hoodlum", back to "Tragedy", then "Khadafi", then "Tragedy Khadafi"

I feel like "Tragedy" was a dope enough name just to stick with

people dont realize that he was the next big thing at one time

NY was anxiously awaiting his arival after "don't do it. wasnt he like 14 or 15 when this dropped?

"http://www.complex.com/music/2010/09/the-50-greatest-queensbridge-rap-songs/the-tragedy-don39t-do-it

he was being set up for a great career by Marley with the 2 solo cuts on in control then he got locked

his career never really built up enough steam for long enough to sustain itself then he would come back with a diffrent name each time

Tragedy Khadafi for sure, and Intelligent Hoodlum. Didn't know that was this dude here!

....a lot of heads know of Trag as a CNN affiliate or Blaq Poet as the guy from Screwball, but these are mid 80s young rappers from the queensbridge who were looked at as the future

Nas took the "Live Motivator" vehicle, repainted it, totally tricked it out with some of the hottest producers in the biz, and still didn't go gold. Nas wasn't really big until "It Was Written". Tragedy changed names and styles multiple times, he had already abandoned the "Live Motivator" style by the time Nas came out.

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He was definitely influenced by him but took from other MCs as well (Rakim, G Rap, Kane). To say he was more marketable to me isn't true, b/c Tragedy was was very much in line with a lot of the Pro-Black stuff that was going on at the time (X-Clan, Brand Nubian, Public Enemy). Might not have been the biggest sellers but either was Nas

>He was definitely influenced by him but took from other MCs
>as well (Rakim, G Rap, Kane). To say he was more marketable to
>me isn't true, b/c Tragedy was was very much in line with a
>lot of the Pro-Black stuff that was going on at the time
>(X-Clan, Brand Nubian, Public Enemy). Might not have been the
>biggest sellers but either was Nas

Anyway yes Nas took from other mcees, I'm just saying he did build off of the style that Trag laid down on "Live Motivator", and he had the NY streets going crazy but he still didn't blow until "It Was Written".
Nas was undeniably more marketable, he had the underground hype, he had a gang of all star producers, and all the girls thought he was cute. Again were you born in 86? Cause if so there's no way you could have accurately gauged his impact or his marketability.
Trag didn't have anything going on image-wise that set him apart from the other Pro-Black artists, all the acts you named were way more ostentatious in their presentation and had more focused musical identities as well. What would make you pick him over them?

BUT he was marketed diffrently than Tragedy. thats a diffrence in meaning

also

u have to factor the years that they both came out to put it in context

their was a gap of aproximatly 8 years from when Trag debuted his "Live motivator" style to when Illatic came out. hip hop's climate changed dureing that period and the fans were expecting a lot more

the Pro black era was dead, hip hop had already gone thru a "sell out" phase, the 2nd golden age was now upon us

in all fairness Trag didnt get marketed the same way Nas did because he couldnt have

to your other point yes Nas didnt get mainstream appeal until IWW but the foundation was laid with Illmatic and its surrounding hypr

His looks.
His looks provided an interesting contrast with his lyrics because he looked kinda boy-ish and innocent, yet he's fatigued out with the chipped tooth and talking about waving automatic guns at nuns.

Also Nas natural voice is just iller, although Trag has a good voice too.
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way considering the available technolgy of the time. heck Trag was even younger and more boyish looking than Nas when he was a Super Kid. Even then kid rappers had a market and they tried to exploit it but then he went to jail and came back as Intelligent Hoodlum.

Also since Trag is older and hip hop was a younger art form the media coverage just wasnt there and the pipeline hadn't developed to promote Trag as a youngster the way Nas was eventually promoted. The Source Magazine was the main vehicle in which the Nas legend spread. Trag didnt have that advantage. Neither did he have a godfather to look out for him like Serch basically rode for Nas hard. U cant compare the promotional efforts in 2 diffrent eras. Its like comparing the Source to how today the internet has taken promotion to a whole new level.


I hear you but dont have a strong premise to base your argument on

>way considering the available technolgy of the time. heck
>Trag was even younger and more boyish looking than Nas when he
>was a Super Kid. Even then kid rappers had a market and they
>tried to exploit it but then he went to jail and came back as
>Intelligent Hoodlum.
>
>Also since Trag is older and hip hop was a younger art form
>the media coverage just wasnt there and the pipeline hadn't
>developed to promote Trag as a youngster the way Nas was
>eventually promoted. The Source Magazine was the main vehicle
>in which the Nas legend spread. Trag didnt have that
>advantage. Neither did he have a godfather to look out for him
>like Serch basically rode for Nas hard. U cant compare the
>promotional efforts in 2 diffrent eras. Its like comparing the
>Source to how today the internet has taken promotion to a
>whole new level.
>
>
>I hear you but dont have a strong premise to base your
>argument on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV-RVHj59Zs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ1qn3-o028

Is there anything about Trag that stood out from what was hot at the time? He was dope but he didn't inspire the same type of reaction that Nas did.
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>Is there anything about Trag that stood out from what was hot
>at the time? He was dope but he didn't inspire the same type
>of reaction that Nas did.

I was going by Tragedy with Marley Marl Pre Intelligent Hoodlum. At that time Tragedy was being groomed for big things. Think about it like this he was 16 and in the premier group of the time. He was rhymin in a crew w BDK,Shan,Shante,Biz and G Rap. This was the big leagues and he was called up from the minors and given a slot. That was huge! The thing is he ruined his own career trajectory with jail. So I guess we will never really know how it coulve turned out. But the point is that he was being promoted and pushed just as heavily as Nas was pre Illmatic.

So yes I agree that the Intelligent Hoodlum stuff wasnt equivalent to young Nas. But for its era young Trag was just as hyped as Nas. Its an oranges and tangerines comparison.

> >Is there anything about Trag that stood out from what was
>hot
>>at the time? He was dope but he didn't inspire the same
>type
>>of reaction that Nas did.
>
>I was going by Tragedy with Marley Marl Pre Intelligent
>Hoodlum. At that time Tragedy was being groomed for big
>things. Think about it like this he was 16 and in the premier
>group of the time. He was rhymin in a crew w
>BDK,Shan,Shante,Biz and G Rap. This was the big leagues and he
>was called up from the minors and given a slot. That was huge!
>The thing is he ruined his own career trajectory with jail. So
>I guess we will never really know how it coulve turned out.
>But the point is that he was being promoted and pushed just as
>heavily as Nas was pre Illmatic.
>
>So yes I agree that the Intelligent Hoodlum stuff wasnt
>equivalent to young Nas. But for its era young Trag was just
>as hyped as Nas. Its an oranges and tangerines comparison.

I remember the cuts from In Control Vol. 1 but I really didn't start rocking with him until after he did his little bid.


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and "Live Motivator" was that bidness...

.

************************

.

YUP!

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I'll see if I can find it and link it up

or the sound we hear on "Dead wrong" with that voice mainly

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he's stated that he got that from missy
he's actually the first one to use "bling bling"
because it was a sound effect in one of his verses
gotta remember which song though

"respect us"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTc-WeV9bIk

"drivin em" (he has the last verse)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFeFb7PhOLE

"loud pipes" (batting clean up again)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq24UBSZtd4

.

when he was young rockin the African medallions you know he was on that Native Tongues ish.

significant in rap music who came before him..

at least from Run Dmc/LL Cool J up through a few of his more accomplished contemporaries.

he could rap on any type of track and make it work.

He says he was influenced by Ice-T right on down to his name.


Think about it; "Dopeman" is kinda reminiscent of "Pain", "Squeeze the Trigger" and "Six in tha Morning*"




*- but then again, "Six in Tha Morning" was pretty much a bite of Schooly D's "Saturday Night".

.

Nas
2Pac
Masta Ace
Pharaohe Monch

Very cool post. Can't wait to see the different responses.

I think rappers mostly build off their own crews/those they work closely with, for a more direct influence.

________________________________________________

************************

.

There was an interview I can't find right now where he says that Common was one of his biggest influences.

I don't think they flow the same at all, but I think a lot of the metaphors/similes/references that Ludacris makes (especially early in his career) scream Common.

and all compared to Com's, but I can't see any similarities, even with their punchline style.

Luda took Common's exact style, nor am I saying that Luda is as talented as Common. Just saying that Luda has made the comment, more than once, that Common was one of his main influences.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_2rdrtAXg8

or was that supposed to be another line?

to me, but some lines he's spit sounded VERY 3K. Like this one..."One day they giving you the thumbs up the next/ They telling 9th to go on switch his drums up...the best/ Is what they expect" - the flow in there felt like something Dre would do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uBB_cJat5s

Edit: I mostly see this as a phrasing/writing thing, more so than how Phonte sounds while he's rapping.

one who heard it

Def...I had no idea who LB was though, just heard it on a mix.

with no panties?

He said one of his favorite rappers was Ma$e...

And especially on that first album, I could see he was a fan.

http://youtu.be/WKaFJ0jDlBM

on certain tracks

Frightenin, so fuckin FRIGHTENIN

If pushed I'd have to say Biggie. Because it's easy to recite a Biggie rhyme in the Jadkiss monotone cadence

************************

but it was mainly because of the content...style was different

I'd argue dude was a lot of rappers' blueprint.

descendant of anyone in particular to me

which in turn means Ace & Red

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Many cite Young Zee alone but I clearly hear a Pacewon influence as well. Just listen to Pace (first verse) on this Outs track Brick City: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9iXheLV8lE&feature=related

.

can u expound or give examples?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0F1sgtRgU

serch is the more "charismatic" and animated frontman (run)
pete is the more laid back cool straight ahead rapper (dmc)

the back and forth trading of bars

just very run-dmc'ish to me

it think the group was set up that way

but I really dont see that much of a similarity otherwise

they were a duo w/ a dj aka a 3 man crew but that was pretty common for that era

maybe that was too easy a comparison
chuck d said he patterned PE after run-dmc
salt & pepa were the "female run-dmc"
you could say something similar about epmd as well (i guess)

i don't think of them as the "white run-dmc"
the music was different
but again, i just always felt they were in the mold of run-dmc
and it appeared to me to be a large influence

don't really know who else one could compare them too

.

For example to me "Got" and "The Infamous Date Rape" are very similar in tone.

Also Pharoahe b/c of flow, I remember ppl thought Mos ghostwrote for Diddy on Press Play at first and then it came out it was Pharoahe. That's when ppl starting talking about how early in the Rawkus Records days Mos & Pharoahe hung out a lot and Mos learnt a lot from him.

i heard alot of special ed his rhyme cadence i guess

.

.

.

goofball shtick.

I can't recall any other Will Smith songs that sounded like that so I don't see a connection between Will Smith's sound and Rakim.


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"Slightly traaanss-fooooormed" "Little bit, outta control, it's cool, to dance, but what about a groove, that moves, and soothes romance" or whatev he said...that was HELLA Rakim to me

>"Slightly traaanss-fooooormed" "Little bit, outta control,
>it's cool, to dance, but what about a groove, that moves, and
>soothes romance" or whatev he said...that was HELLA Rakim to
>me

influenced him? For all we know Juice's reference track sounded like Rakim. I just don't think it counts, because I can't think of Will Smith sounding like Ra in any other instance.

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.

.

Stress was his coming out party. The styles he was flexing on that album were unheard of to most but everything he did on there had already been done by the Fellowship.
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.

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'cept lil b took it further and went totally off beat.

.

Jay Electronica???

Andre 3K

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I would say Flavor Flav, Captain Beefheart or Screamin Jay Hawkins if I would have to choose ppl similar before him.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dy2D8vVxRE

One of my peoples from LI who used to rap told me a story of being at a talent show where All In Together Now (RZA/Dirty/GZA) & LONS both performed. All In Together Now went on before LONS and Dirty slammed the mic down when they were done. LONS went on next and Busta picked the mic up, visibly pissed. It's a shame all this crazy footage isn't archived, you never know what happened for sure and what was embellished.

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Unless you know something we don't it's the other way around.
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Kurupt, Slug, LL Cool J

Sach's name just got dropped in here...

The Nonce's catalog was so smooth.

Also.. Aceyalone..

However, that could just be an inflection/accent thing from growing up in the same general area.

Versus the Cube and Goldie Locc types out here