"Or, intelligent black kids who have single-handedly built
a creative brand that they have control over, and have
used it carve a unique niche in the hip-hop landscape.
"
Just because they have creative control and use it doesn't make what they're creating worthy of respect, beyond the fact they're succeeding. I respect the way they've branded and marketed themselves with a consistent style, but the substance behind that style is nowhere to be found. Wu-tang had style, Wu-tang had creative control, but Wu-Tang, at least some of the time, would attempt to address topics of substance.

"Its the CREATIVITY that people are celebrating."
Again, your argument seems to be 'I don't care about substance, overwhelm me with style and I'm happy. Dazzle me with special effects and costumes and I could give a fuck what the movie is about'..which is the opposite of what I'm looking for, and I'm entitled to not want the same shit you want.

"Not the lyrics about rape. There's a billion shock rappers
who talk about crazy shit. That's as old as America Pie. Few (or none) of them are as good as Odd Future. We like
it because it sounds good. Because the group has *it* and
is talented."

I'd never deny that they have 'it'.


"Yeah, 'Smells like Teen Spirit' was a smart parody song
with a meaning, but that had nothing to do with why people
liked Nirvana. People liked Nirvana because it sounded good."

People like nirvana because it was counter-culture, but they ALSO happened to have a genius song-writer penning opuses. I'm not knocking OFWGFTA for their packaging, I'm talking about what's past the packaging.

"Same with these kids. I dig their spirit and energy, but it's empty, there's no real substance to their lyrics/music."
"Not sure what this means. There's plenty of substance to me."

Name a song that OFWGFTA has made that is about something. The most advanced concept I could find was them talking about buying shit at the supermarket. That's what I mean by lack of substance, it's a pretty simple concept to grasp. They aren't saying anything, not even remotely. Can I at least get a glimmer of them having a point? Is that too much to ask? I bet they'd even admit they have no point, I don't think you need to be such a fanboy.

"I don't need to hear Public Enemy. I wanna hear good music."

Public Enemy is good music, and apparently, you do NEED to hear them.

"I don't mean to impose mature
standards on a bunch of teenagers, but it's pretty obvious
they're going to be iconic(sooner rather than later) and
that means they'll be emulated...is that a good thing?
>"If it means people shaking things up, deciding to do
something original, and taking ownership of their
creative process and music, than good. I hope people do
emulate it."

I'm all for people pushing boundaries and being individuals. I'm not knocking that. I celebrate it, it needs to happen more often. It would just be nice if they did that without being mindless.

"These kids aren't any different than any group in the sense
that they want to be famous and sell records, but they've
made the rap game BEND TO THEIR WILL in a way that no camp
has in recent memory. Its very impressive."

I agree, I hope they keep making the industry bend to their will. But I also hope they use their power for something beyond just 'style' and 'shock rap'.

"Maybe they'll mature and spit something real."
>"Not sure what "real" is. You sound like a snob, and
for no good reason. Your arguments are pretty terrible.

Real as in substantive. Having meaning. Again, this is a pretty simple concept to grasp for most people. I'm talking about addressing any topic beyond cartoonish drug use, rape, and silly shit. These kids aren't hardcore, one of them just got sent to BOARDING SCHOOL by his parents for rapping about the shit he does. And you're an 'adult' listening to them talk about rape and huffing gasoline, nodding your head, because they're doing it with so much 'style'. Sorry I can't join you and I'm sure I'm not the only one who notices their material is completely juvenile and devoid of content.

"Maybe their
rebellious, angst-ridden, attention-begging style is just so
universal that everyone will glaze over the lyrics and
declare them worthy of praise. I can't even say I hate it, but
something about it gives me pause."
"No, people like them because the music sounds good."
And you say my arguments are terrible? I'd rather be a snob than a fanboy jumping on a bandwagon. Call it like it is, they have style, they have skills, and they're going to be stars...but their music is empty. I'm sure if you asked them, they wouldn't front like they're saying anything important beyond the typical teenager 'fuck the world' perspective, which isn't enough for me to go crazy over.