Vibe finally released PT. II....enjoy.

http://www.vibe.com/content/am-i-my-brother%E2%80%99s-keeper-untold-story-dungeon-family-part-two

came back out and searchin' to no avail
i had gave up until you posted this
thanks bruh

Odd things added, odd things omitted.

Because I don't know all sides of the stories, some parts had me like, "Well, if they mentioned 'this', why not mention 'that'?" None of them are perfect, but the OutKast blame game was cheap, and low.

The whole thing just sounds like miscommunication that's gotten out of hand now, and everyone's coming back to the table with their tails between their legs.

>The whole thing just sounds like miscommunication that's
>gotten out of hand now, and everyone's coming back to the
>table with their tails between their legs.

lets not be so quick to pick sides, they're all human beings that do dumb shit from time to time

But to put the weight of the success of the original 13+ original DF members on the most popular 2 (or 3 if you count Cee-Lo) is unfair. It's weird for Big Rube to be salty, cuz dude's had an album "coming soon" like a No Limit artist. And Rico burned a (or some) bridge(s) that would've made him more money than he "lost" on a Tide commercial.

Some definite "c'mon son!" moments going on there.

how does a musician lose money doing a tide commercial? sorry, i don't know the story. (EDIT: if it's talked about in the VIBE story then nevermind, i'll know it when i read it, but otherwise...)

and making good on them
most people always say 'if I make it we all make it' but rarely does that ever happen
you get one or two guys that make it and get rich enuff to concentrate on music and the ones that are left dont and its not always their fault
sometimes you get people that only want a handout but then again its not wrong to invest in one another's talent

I've been looking for this article for the longest.

and the writer should be ashamed of those paltry quotes cited from 'dandelion'. we've been waiting to hear something about dre's solo project for years and the only line the writer remembers is 'i raps like a mummy'? FAIL.

ps: seriously, big gipp is going to be critical of andre's fashion choices? it's not like gipp dresses "normally"

___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

from the DF, he shouldn't critique anyone's style. Remember 'Steppin' Out' video and the cover from 'mutant mindframe' Gipp? exactly.

he was just pointing out the situation.

to be fair, gipps style and andre's circa stankonia were not even close in comparison.

kev


myspace.com/burnin_el

>ps: seriously, big gipp is going to be critical of andre's
>fashion choices? it's not like gipp dresses "normally"

yeah, that part had me fucked up like Gipp hasn't basically been on that same dress-funkadelic type shit.

“I really think Big Boi is a better rapper than I am,” Andre, who says people never compare him and Big in person, out of “respect,” claims. “Like, if I’m another rapper and I had to battle one of us, I would say, I don’t want Big Boi, let me do Dre first."

___

http://www.newgoldenera.com

.

where's part 1 at ?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++last man standing takes a seat+++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

nvm
http://www.vibe.com/content/am-i-my-brother%E2%80%99s-keeper-untold-story-dungeon-family-part-one
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++last man standing takes a seat+++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This nigga is STILL complaining? He blaming other cats for him not being on top of his game lol. That nigga needs to let it go and get on his grind.

Creative Loafing article....7 yrs. later, the same thing.

I mean he could have made an arrangement with them after the first album when he made other appearances to make that situation to his liking for the work he did on the 1st, but he didn't even do that. So he has no one to blame. He was older than them they were teenagers and probably weren't handling a lot of their own business anyway so foh Ruben.

and he still sounded like a bitch.

.........................................................
www.addplus.bandcamp.com
www.twitter.com/rosaliiinda

props to Linda Hobbs.

AM I MY BROTHER’S KEEPER? The Untold Story of the Dungeon Family. PART ONE
VIBE.COM By: Vibe Posted 1-19-2010 12:49 am
Twenty years ago, an Atlanta teenager named Rico Wade handpicked a bunch of friends––rappers, artists, and producers––to form the Dungeon Family. From OutKast and Goodie Mob to Organized Noize, Rico and his fellow Dungeon dwellers transformed hip hop. They lived the fly life until a spiral of greed, drugs, and envy threatened to tear the family apart. In Part One of this epic, two-part saga, LINDA HOBBS investigates the rise and early struggles of the legendary crew that put the Dirty South on the map.

His home resembles The White House. But Rico Wade’s stately residence has seen better days. The paint is chipped. Weeds cover the backyard tennis court and the edges of the sunken pool. In the living room: hardwood floors, white walls, no furniture.
Standing in the spacious kitchen, Rico Wade is so skinny, he looks fragile. If it wasn’t for the tatts on his forearms––DUNGEON in script on his right and FAMILY on his left––you might not recognize him as the man who impregnated Southern music with its first burst of universally respected hip hop.
Rico leans over the marble-topped island with a grin as he pours a splash of Crown Royal into his mug of green tea. He’s wearing a brown suede cowboy hat, green grenade belt, dirty tube socks, and a T-shirt with a picture of his dead grandmother. A haunting soundtrack drones throughout every room in the mansion. “Revolution/Revolution/would not be televised/but it will be heard/We don’t fear them/We don’t fear them/We could have riot/but we kept quiet…” It’s a new song Rico’s been working on, for the long-anticipated reunion of a group he discovered 15 years ago: the brilliant eccentric quartet Goodie Mob, just four of the young black teenagers who rose from the Dungeon to become stars.
Follow the sound down a stairwell, to a room that’s painted black. The deeper you go, the heavier the pounding of drum machines. Deeper still, and you enter a tiny room with a Confederate flag hanging over a huge mixing board flanked by framed portraits of Rico as well as platinum plaques from OutKast, TLC, En Vogue, and Ludacris. It’s a room many have heard about, but few have seen: the Dungeon.
Founded in the late ’80s, the Dungeon Family was one of rap’s most celebrated crews. Anchored by the production of trio Organized Noize (Rico, 37, Raymond “Ray” Murray, 39, and Patrick “Sleepy” Brown, 39), the supergroups, Goodie Mob (Robert “T-Mo” Barnett, 37, Willie Edward “Khujo” Knighton Jr., 37, Thomas “Cee-lo” Callaway, 34, and Cameron “Big” Gipp, 37) and OutKast (Antwan “Big Boi” Patton, 34, and Andre “3000” Benjamin, 34), and an eccentric cast of characters that included Cool Breeze, Ruben “Big Rube” Bailey, 37, Erin “Witchdoctor” Johnson, 38, JaMahr “Backbone” Williams, 31, and later additions like Killer Mike and Bubba Sparxxx, the family flourished, transforming Atlanta’s booty music landscape and racking up more than $20 million in sales.
During his mid-’90s heyday, Rico stood as slender and striking as an NBA player. He zoomed around Atlanta in a Porsche. He was known for throwing lavish parties with Sean “Puffy” Combs––renting yachts or locking down beaches for entire weekends.
But over the last several years, the family drifted apart. Andre 3000 broke off from OutKast to work on an as-yet titled solo album and a preppy clothing line called Benjamin Bixby. Big Boi established his Purple Ribbon Records imprint and struggled to release his solo project, Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty (Juve/Laface). Goodie Mob members Big Gipp, Khujo, and T-Mo all attempted ill-fated solo releases, while Cee-Lo toured the world with DJ Danger Mouse as the successful Gnarls Barkley. Sleepy Brown released his second solo album, Mr. Brown (Virgin, 2006), to lukewarm response, while Rico and Ray retreated to their studios, doing production work for the likes of T.I., Nivea, Trey Songz, and Brandy.
“Ray is a loner,” says his estranged wife, Dee Dee Murray. His music was first, no matter what.” As for Rico, the Dungeon daddy faces a hefty tax debt dating back to the late ’90’s. He has also struggled with a cocaine problem. “You can become so high off of the music, you start doing things. But don’t nothing get you high like the music," he says.
“At one point everybody was like, Rico’s tripping,” says Dee Dee. “They perceived Rico to be spending money he shouldn’t have been spending. He might have been more flashy than the others, but that’s Rico. It’s how he was when they met him.”
Back then, the run looked like it would go on forever. “People looked at him as one of the main people to be connected to in the industry,” says Sheryl Merrit, Rico’s former personal assistant. “During that time in Atlanta, it was Rico, Jermaine Dupri, and Dallas Austin. Rico pretty much had the streets on lock. It was like he could do no wrong.” But Dungeons are dark places, and this one was no exception.
On a hazy Atlanta night, Fredrick Calhoun, 37, sits near a downtown bar sipping a beer. He’s unshaven, and his hair hasn’t been cut in a while. Giving off a distinct construction worker vibe is the rapper known as Cool Breeze.
Ray, who hasn’t seen Breeze in years, calls him “the oddest brother in the Family.” But back in the day, Breeze was a hot commodity. His single “Watch for the Hook,” from his 1999 East Points Greatest Hit (Interscope), featured cameos from most of the Dungeon Family. He solidified his thug with the trippy follow-up “Cre-A-Tine (I Got People…).” But the man who coined the term “Dirty South” with his 1995 guest verse on a Goodie Mob track of the same name says he never felt like a star.
As a teenager, Breeze got attention from girls by day and got into trouble by night, from selling “a little bit of everything” to stealing cars. Discovering that rap was more fun than “thuggin’,” he made a demo called I’m Down for Mine in the bedroom of a buddy named 2 Cold Capone, then formed the East Point Chain Gang, which also included future Goodie Mob member Big Gipp. Capone gave the demo to Joseph “Joe” Carne, 37, another popular East Point Kid, whose mom, Jean Carne, had been assigned to Philadelphia International and Motown Records.
Impressed by Breeze’s demo, Joe alerted Rico. “Joe was like, ‘He the next Ice Cube.’” Recalls Rico, who went to school with Breeze and claims his ego was as exorbitant as his talent. “I was like, ‘Boy, stop!’” Rico says. But Breeze was soon part of the Dungeon Family.
“Our mentality was, ‘You touch one of us, it’s over with,’” says the politically conscious gangsta rapper. “We can touch each other, but nobody else can.’ The atmosphere in the Dungeon was the bomb… Before fame came,” Breeze adds, cracking his knuckles. “The Family is kind of an orphanage. The Dungeon orphanage.” He holds up a half-empty beer glass: “Ain’t nothing like family.”

Rico ascends the spiral staircase to his bedroom. Downstairs is where Ramon Campbell, 37, stays, and has stayed. Ramon is light-skinned, muscular, and carries a pistol. He earned the nickname “Mean-Ass Mone” for his way of handling crazed fans approaching Rico’s estate. “Nobody has ever tried to come up on the yard except for a few,” Mone says dryly, “and they got dealt with.”
Ramon met Rico in the late ’80s when they were in a dance group called Guess. “We were doing A-town dancing,” says Ramon. “Back then, it was all about bass music.” When Rico wasn’t dancing, he was looking after his two younger sisters and his mother, Beatrice. Ramon and Rico wound up in a song-and-dance group called the Uboyz, which also included Sleepy Brown. His father, Jimmy Brown, was a vocalist /trombonist in the ’70s ATL funk band Brick. To make ends meet, Rico managed a gangster-owned store called LaMonte’s Beauty Supply. He purchased a gold-and-black Honda Accord with black rims by ninth grade. Also working at the shop was Tionne “T-Boz” Watkins, who would go on to form the R&B supergroup TLC with Lisa “Left Eye” Lopes and Rozonda “Chilli” Thomas. “Rico was the reason I met Left Eye,” says T-Boz, now 39. “Rico gave me my first pair of baggy pants––Girbauds.”
Around this time, Murray was working in Carne’s home studio. “I was the one who had the equipment,” says Joe. “Everyone in the Dungeon Family connected through me.” But things turned sour with Joe in ’91 when Ray heard one of his tracks playing in a club. “Joe took one of that man’s beats,” Rico says. He confronted Joe at Jelly Beans Skate Rink, site of the ’06 movie ATL (Warner Bros.). “Rico was like, ‘Let me holla at you for a sec,’” recalls Gipp. “When they got to the parking lot, Rico pulled out a shotgun and stuck it in Joe’s mouth.”
When Joe returned, “his eyes were big as pool balls,” Gipp recalls. Reminded of the incident, Joe falls silent. “You don’t forget something like that,” he finally says, softly. “That backed me out of the whole thing for a while. It’s just music. It ain’t worth somebody getting hurt over.” The crew needed its own equipment, so Big Rube, another neighborhood buddy, used insurance money he received after his father’s death to buy an MPC60 for Ray and Sleepy, who used to carry a keyboard around wherever he went. They moved their gear to Rico’s mother’s house, and began recording in a tiny, dirt-floor basement. Since nobody ever seemed to leave, they called it the Dungeon.

It’s easy to forget what the hip hop landscape looked like in ’94. Nas was Illmatic (Ill Will/Columbia), Biggie was Ready to Die (Bad Boy), 2Pac was on Thug Life Vol. 1 (Jive), and the Fugees were Blunted on Reality (Ruffhouse). Rap was mostly bicoastal, with Death Row bubbling out West. In the South, nothing was popping but Luke in Miami and Suave House and Rap-A-Lot in Houston.
Before Master P and Cash Money rose out of New Orleans, the Dungeon Family had dudes in the streets rocking leather hats and platinum fronts. Rico linked with Antonio “L.A.” Reid at LaFace Records, and they dropped OutKast’s Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik, introducing a new sound––eerie harmonies layered with clustered funk. It was smart but gangsta, pop but pure, and universal enough to bump out of jeeps as far away as Detroit and Chicago.
“Our competition was The Chronic,” says Ray. “That was the best album ever. So we was like, ‘We gon’ make something like that,’” Where Ray and Sleep were more hands-on, Rico was focused on quality control. “Rico will hurt your feelings in a minute,” says Big Boi. “You be in the Dungeon, got a fresh rap, think it’s the shit, and this muthafucka acting like he don’t even hear it… You knew you wasn’t really saying shit if Ric didn’t acknowledge it.”
“Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik was bigger than OutKast,” Cool Breeze says of the Dungeon debut. “It was about Organized Noize, and that sound.” Future Goodie Mob members Cee-Lo and Big Gipp were featured on the single “Git Up, Git Out.” T-Mo and Khujo––who had their own single group, the Lumberjacks––also made guest appearances. “(LaFace) wanted to sign all understanding that everyone was going to do solo albums.
Goodie Mob created a blueprint for political street rap that transcended region––as if N.W.A. was swallowed up by Public Enemy. Their voices were country, but their story was universal: former street kids rapping about revolution. Their name, shorthand for “Goodie Die Mostly Over Bullshit,” captured that worldview.
After settling in at LaFace with OutKast and Goodie Mob, Organized Noize was about expanding their brand––but it didn’t come easy. “It was so much animosity and adversity,” Ray recalls. “Everything we did was just to prove that we could do it.”
In 1995, he hired industry veteran Erik Nuri, a Harvard University grad best known for introducing Kenneth “Babyface” Edmonds to Clive Davis, which resulted in the LaFace deal with Arista Records. Nuri helped Rico handle business affairs and shopped Organized Noize production to other artists. “(Noize) resented a lot of the independent practices,” says Nuri, 54, who now works as an independent consultant. “They wanted to sign artists and writers without having an interest in their publishing making sure nobody exploited anyone else.”
Rico knew his philosophy was a departure from the norm. “That’s how Puffy became rich,” he says. “And Suge Knight owned some of Vanilla Ice’s publishing. I know people looked at us like we were young and dumb for that. But we were taught you couldn’t be the manager, producer, and the goddamn record company,” he says. “It wasn’t morally correct.” In 1994, OutKast’s management was taken over by Michael “Blue” Williams, who was affiliated with Queen Latifah and ShaKim Compere’s Flavor Unit. The lucrative publishing rights for Goodie Mob and OutKast were administered by Chrysalis Publishing. “Rico didn’t dick OutKast,” says former Goodie Mob manager Bernard Parks, 39. “He didn’t take their publishing, he didn’t lock them up. I’ve sat in meetings telling Ric, ‘What the fuck is wrong with you?’”
Rico insists he has no regrets but says he would rethink those decisions going forward––especially since he started receiving foreclosure notices on his house last year. “I wouldn’t do that now,” says Rico of his past approach to business. “We want it all.”
Organized Noize cemented their credentials with En Vogue’s 1996 No. 1 R&B hit “Don’t Let Go (Love)” and TLC’s 1995 Top 10 pop hit “Waterfalls.” “To date, that’s the biggest song TLC has done,” T-Boz says. “There’s no other crew like the Dungeon Family.”
Their accomplishments are still recognized by younger producers. “Organized Noize was one of the first camps out of the South to gain worldwide respect in the hip hop worlds,” says Christopher “Drumma Boy” Gholson, 25, who’s made hits for Rick Ross and Young Jeezy. “They’ve collaborated with the best from Macy Gray to Curtis Mayfield, and influenced producers such as myself.”
By the mid-1990s, the production trio of Rico Wade, Ray Murray, and Sleepy Brown was charging upward of $80,000 for a beat and top music executives had them on speed dial. Rico says then-Elektra CEO Sylvia Rhone paid Organized Noize $1 million to write 10 songs and Interscope Chairman Jimmy Iovine gave them $1.5 million to write and produce another 10 songs. “Back in the ’90’s, it was nothing for a million-dollar budget to go across the table,” says Murray. “But we were some of the first producers to be getting $100,000 a song.” Rico says L.A. Reid owns half of their publishing. “It’s a fucked-up contract,” he says. “(He) still make money on my songs from 1993.”
Organized Noize’s arrangement with LaFace was a production deal, meaning that they were paid to write and produce tracks for LaFace Records, a subsidiary of Arista. But in 1997, Iovine offered Rico the chance to start his own label trough Interscope––a joint venture similar to the arrangement Puffy Combs had through in Bad Boy Records. “I was Jimmy’s golden boy,” says Rico. At the time, Interscope was severing ties with Suge Knight’s lucrative but controversial Death Row Records. Rico felt a tug of loyalty for LaFace co-founder L.A. Reid––now chairman of Island/Def Jam, who still says, “Rico is like a son to me”––but Interscope’s $20 million offer was too good to pass up.
“Iovine said, ‘You ain’t got to touch a drum machine! You ain’t got to do nothing!’” Rico says, his eyes glittering. “He tried to get me to help him run his staff. Like, ‘Help me tell Dr. Dre how to get his shit together.’ He was offering me a dream.” In fact, the job offered was CEO of Organized Noize Records, and Rico accepted it in 1998. The Interscope deal and the frequent trips to Los Angeles drove a wedge between Organized Noize and the rest of the Dungeon Family: “People were telling me, ‘You’re a star, Rico. You don’t need them cats in Atlanta.’” His priorities shifted. That same year his mother was seriously injured in a car crash, adding to the stress.
“It all went downhill,” says Cool Breeze, who was supposed to be first in line at the new label. “Rico didn’t rap, didn’t sing, and really wasn’t producing at the time. But Rico’s our boy, so everybody got behind him and said, ‘We want him to speak for us.’” Meanwhile, Organized Noize Records signed a singer named Lil Will, a quirky rapper named Witchdoctor, and Andrell “Kilo Ali”, 35, a legend of Atlanta bass music. “After all the money spent, there was no Cool Breeze contract,” Breeze says bitterly.
Back at LaFace, Goodie Mob and OutKast continued successful careers despite the Dungeon Family’s disintegration. Andre 3000 says he had little knowledge of what was happening at Interscope. “I knew they had a few groups that didn’t take off like they thought they was. (Organized Noize) has classic albums. Years from now, people will bump them. When we old and gray, they going to be like, Aww, man, this is great. It just didn’t happen, man. I can’t explain it. you know, almost like a curse."
“From a business standpoint, that situation got fucked up over misappropriation of funds dealing with Kilo’s Ali’s ass,” says Nikki Marshall, 29, Dee Dee’s assistant in the Atlanta office of Organized Noize Records. “In almost every factor of the Dungeon Family, what you find is that they don’t pay attention to business.”
Rico had come up on Kilo in Atlanta’s bass-music scene, but not everybody agreed with his signing. “I was against it,” says Big Rube from Rico’s house. “Kilo had a reputation for being kind of fucked up.”
“I was the only one who Kilo would talk to,” says Dee Dee Murray. He’d be like, ‘Ms. Dee De, I just wrecked my BMW! Tell Rico I need another one!” Soon after completing his debut, Organized Bass (Organized Noize/Interscope, 1997), Kilo, now 35, burned his house down and is currently in a Georgia prison for first-degree arson and cocaine possession. “The drugs had got to him,” says Ramon, who had to bail Kilo out of jail. “It spiraled out of control.”
Meanwhile, Rico says, “I’d stopped loving music. Every day, Jimmy asking me, ‘What do you think?’ And I’m like, I don’t know any more!” By 1998, Nuri was let go. “Erik was tripping,” Ray explains. "He was a cool person, but he just couldn’t handle it.” Nuri says he feels he let Rico down. “My job was to organize their business,” he says, but due to “personal issues” that affected his health, he was unable to focus on his work. “It’s unfortunate that after I left they didn’t bring on somebody to take the production company to the next level.”
But Rico doesn’t blame Nuri for the label’s demise. “Sleepy helped end that for me,” he says. Though Organized Noize was a trio, Sleepy––a talented keyboardist and singer who brought live instrumentation to the Organized Noize sound––stayed focused on his solo project. “We had internal turmoil,” says Ray. “Me and Rico had to step up and do what our third partner wasn’t doing.”
According to Sleepy, Interscope showed little interest in his album, so he went to Bang II Records, which released The Vinyl Room in 1998. “He used Interscope money to fund this album,” Ramon says, “so Bang Records ended up getting a free album. Jimmy was so upset about that.” Before long, Iovine cut off funding for Organized Records. “They got the Lil Will album and never put it out,” Dede says. “That was (Interscope) saying, Okay—we don’t want to fund your venture anymore.”
“I don’t regret putting out that album” Sleepy says by phone from Los Angeles. He’s now signed to Big Boi’s Purple Ribbon and was also prominently featured in OutKast’s 2003 No. 1 hit, “The Way You Move.” “What I regret is that me and Rico had the little disagreement. I wish I had handled that a whole lot better."
In late 1999, Organized Noize had to let most of their 25 employees go. “It was a crazy time,” says Sheryl Merrit. At the same time OutKast was working on their smash album Stankonia (Laface, 2000), Rico’s company closed its offices on Auburn Avenue in Atlanta and he began working out of his home. “I paid $150,000 out of my own pocket for Kilo’s last video, ‘Baby, Baby,’” Rico says. Kilo showed his appreciation by going on an Atlanta radio station and accusing Rico of being a lousy businessman.
Meanwhile, a new generation was building on what the Dungeon Family had started. One night in 1999, Kawan “KP” Prather, 36, an artist from the group Parental Advisory, called Rico. “I got this kid on Bankhead,” KP said. “He kind of cocky, but Ric––he hot.” Rico invited them over. The slender guy was 19, raised on OutKast and Goodie Mob. In the ’hood they called him “Tip.” “I just remember the feeling like he was a kid,” says Rico. In mid-conversation, Tip called himself “the king.” Rico frowned: “OutKast the kings of the South!”
“It was one of them nigga please moments,” KP says with a laugh. He’s now executive president of A&R at Island Def Jam. “It was sort of sacrilegious to say something like that. But it made T.I. want to go harder.” It also served notice that the Dungeon Family had started something that could become bigger than all of them.
On the 15th floor of The London hotel in Manhattan, Bernard Parks Jr. is spinning his Blackberry around on a glossy table. “Goodie Mob was a family,” he says of the group that split 10 years ago. The son of two prominent Atlanta attorneys, Parks tried to introduce Goodie Mob’s Khujo to his mother to talk about entertainment law. The rapper showed up to the meeting with a 40-ounce in his hand. “This ain’t gon’ work,” Parks said. “Y’all need some help.”
In 1995, Rico made Parks Goodie Mob’s official representative. Parks had no clue what he was getting into. “When I came on with Goodie Mob, they was trying to do a publishing deal that day,” says Parks. “I was like, Y’all are fucking crazy!”
In four years they released three albums—1995’s Soul Food, 1998’s Still Standing, and 1999’s World Party––all of them certified gold. Rico says their live show was “way better than OutKast.” At their peak, they did shows with the Fugees and the Notorious B.I.G., cashing handsome checks––and, sometimes, dropping Ecstasy.
“We were popping ecstasy before niggas know what the pill was,” says Gipp. It began while they were on tour with the Bad Boy Family in ’95. “Ex makes you feel like….” He laughs. “You’re in euphoria, shawty. Everything feels 10 times better. Ex makes the sex spectacular!”
But after the World Party tour, Cee-Lo decided to go solo. “We were on the tour bus,” he recalls. “I said, ‘I want to do a solo record next,’ and T-Mo said, ‘Me, too.’” For their manager, this artistic restlessness couldn’t have come at a worse time. Parks had publishing and recording deals on the table that were jeopardized by rumors of tension within the group. “People calling me saying, ‘Hey man, I’m hearing shit is falling apart over there.’”
Meanwhile, Goodie Mob was branching out from Organized Noize. “We hung with D-Dot (of Bad Boy),” says Gipp. “DJ Muggs (of Cypress Hill). We even talked to Dre.” But their aspirations took a toll on Dungeon Family ties. “We were hurt,” Dee Dee says. “How they gonna come by our house every day getting beats, and then when they get a budget, you want to low-ball us?” It didn’t help that many saw Cee-Lo as the star of the group. “People would come up to me and say, ‘I like the group, but I love you!’” he says. “I’d be like, Damn! Not in front of the fellas!”
In 2002, Cee-Lo released his critically acclaimed solo debut on LaFace, Cee-Lo Green and His Perfect Imperfections. But even after Cee-Lo’s departure, Parks’ job as manager didn’t get any easier. “They was wildin’,” he says. And when it seemed that things could not get any more chaotic, T-Mo got a call early in the morning of June 25, 2002.
“My phone kept ringing and ringing,” T-Mo recalls. “I looked at the phone and saw KHUJO. I answered, and it was his wife.”
Khujo’s spouse also called Dee Dee, “pregnant and crying,” Dee Dee recalls. “She said come be with her at the hospital.” Khujo had been in a car accident. After dropping off friends following a session at the Dungeon, he fell asleep behind the wheel and hit a median, leaving his right leg looking “like ground beef.”
Khujo remembers very little of the accident. “Somebody had to cut me out of the car,” he says. “I didn’t know if it was going to explode.” The leg had to be amputated. L.A. Reid covered the hospital bill, and the tragedy brought the Family together for a time. “I remember seeing Cee-Lo and (Andre 3000) in the lobby of the hospital and hugging both of them,” Dee Dee says. “Nothing else mattered at that moment.”
But the feeling of unity was short-lived. “We had a benefit for Khujo, and Cee-Lo didn’t come,” says Nikki. “Everybody and their mama in Atlanta came out and performed for free, from T.I. to Bonecrusher. Everyone was pissed, but Cee-Lo’s mom had passed away not long before. I figured he had a lot going on.”
After Khujo left the hospital, he got together with Gipp and T-Mo to re-form Goodie Mob without Cee-Lo. They released an album titled One Monkey Don’t Stop No Show (KOCH, 2004). The group denied that the title referred to Cee-Lo, although the cover showed three members of Goodie Mob with a chimpanzee filling the fourth spot. Cee-Lo was reportedly “pissed” about Monkey, but he speaks about it calmly now. “I was more disappointed than angered,” he says. “This was around the time it had become fashionable to put your personal business out, and I was like, This is not the way.” When the album did not sell well, Cee-Lo felt vindicated. “I think Cee-Lo just let them shoot themselves in the foot,’” says Ramon. At the end of the day, one monkey does stop the show. It was even easier to forgive and forget when Gnarls Barkley’s debut album, St Elsewhere (Downtown, 2006), sold a million copies on the strength of the double-platinum, Grammy Award-winning single “Crazy.”
After his success, Cee-Lo had a new appreciation for his former band-mates. “I’m not trying to outdo, outshine, upstage anyone,” he says. “I cannot do Goodie Mob alone. No grudge that I could have outweighed the collective good we could do.” Last summer, the group decided to overlook their differences and give Goodie Mob another stab. Now they’re back in the studio with Rico and making plans to perform again.
“Me and Cee-Lo have talked throughout this whole time,” Gipp says. “People thought it was real beef when it wasn’t.”
Gipp’s main concern is setting the record straight on Southern rap. “I take it as a slap in the face when I see kids coming up, praising Jay-Z and these other cats. Back in the day, they wouldn’t even talk to southern rappers,” he bristles. “Ludacris, Jeezy, and T.I…. They praise Jay-Z and to me, Jay-Z ain’t never said anything besides how to sell dope.”
“Look at how it’s cool to be a Kanye West!” he continues over the phone into the wee hours of the morning. “I hate seeing muthafuckas like Fonzworth Bentley, dudes all on TV, with these old strange clothes on don’t nobody wear in the everyday world."
Gipps is perhaps even more disappointed by the other branch of the Dungeon Family––OutKast. “I’m going to tell you the truth,” he says. “I’m pissed off at Dre and Big for not really doing OutKast right now. Sometimes people trying to run away from something you can’t really run away from.” ––Linda Hobbs
PART TWO: OUTKAST ON THE OUTS. RICO HITS ROCK BOTTOM, AND THE DUNGEON FAMILY.
AM I MY BROTHER’S KEEPER? The Untold Story of the Dungeon Family. PART TWO
Atlanta’s Dungeon Family put the Dirty South on the map. But as their rap empire grew, OutKast battled internal strife while Dungeon Daddy Rico Wade battled drug and money worries. With Big Boi and Andre 3000 preparing solo projects and Rico facing foreclosure, family ties are being put to the test. LINDA HOBBS investigates.

Rico Wade bites off the tip of his fingernail and stares at the tape recorder. The founding father of the Dungeon family remembers the day in 1992 when he first met OutKast like it was yesterday. A white girl named Bianca who went to Tri-Cities a visual and performing arts high school with Antwan “Big Boi” Patton and Andre “3000” Benjamin brought them up to Lamonte’s Beauty Supply to rap for Rico, who was then 19-years-old. Big Boi’s aunt lived up the street from Lamonte’s.
After she passed away, Big used to sleep on Dre’s bedroom floor. They both had baldies and rocked to the instrumental from A Tribe Called Quest’s “Scenario.” their lyrical style clearly inspired by New York rap. Rico’s longtime friend and production partner Sleepy Brown, who was up at Lamonte’s Beauty Shop that day, estimates that their verses clocked in at “35, 45 minutes apiece,” adding that “Rico saw the talent in them first, which kind of made us all believe.”
He brought the boys to LaFace Records co-founder Antonio “L.A.” Reid in 1992, who was introduced to him by Reid’s then-wife Perri “Pebbles” Reid, who at that time managed TLC. Rico and his group the UBoys auditioned for Pebbles back in the day. She advised them to stick to producing. “Rico was the gateway to a music culture I wasn’t familiar with,” says L.A., now chairman and CEO of Island Def Jam Music Group. “He was the guy who came into my office and said, ‘Okay L.A., you need to grow LaFace now.’ And he brought me OutKast, and he brought me Goodie Mob… Rico is one of my ‘sons.’”
But according to Island Def Jam Senior Vice President of A&R, Kawan “KP” Prather—a former member of the Dungeon Family group Parental Advisory, who was also OutKast’s A&R rep at LaFace—when Rico first brought OutKast, “L.A. said he wasn’t interested.” Rico recalls L.A. telling him to join the group and make OutKast a trio because “They wasn’t stars.”
But OutKast’s hit 1993 single “Players Ball” changed L.A.’s mind. Sean “Puffy” Combs loved the song—a ghetto Christmas tale—and ended up directing the video with Rico, who was just beginning a long, lucrative, groundbreaking career.
Yet currently, Dre and Big are both going their separate ways, whether pursuing solo stardom or just taking a break. “It’s going to be interesting to see what they can do,” recently returned Goodie Mob member Cee-Lo says by phone from his Atlanta condo. “I hope all goes well. But doing another OutKast album is something they need to do,” he says. “But then I don’t know the entire story...”
On a warm, sunny day in Dallas, Texas, 33-year-old Andre Benjamin hops into a rented Chrysler Pacific, and gets situated. “Put y’all seat belts on,” he orders Seven, his 12-year-old son with Erykah Badu, and Seven’s 11-year-old playmate. They’re headed to Six Flags Over Texas, an hour drive away.
When they arrive, Andre hops out the car and throws on a pair of dark shades. Seven tells his dad he looks like one of The Isley Brothers. “The Isley Brothers?” his father says, letting out a high-pitched laugh. He’s wearing a periwinkle blue Benjamin Bixby button down (his own line, launched in early 2008), jeans, and New Balance sneakers. His hair is parted down the center like J.T. from The Five Heartbeats.
Andre Benjamin, a.k.a. Andre 3000, is enjoying his life outside OutKast. And who can blame him? Of all the Dungeon Family members, OutKast is the most commercially successful by far, having sold 25 million copies of their six albums, and won six Grammy Awards. Their 2000 album Stankonia alone moved over 10 million units, and while the 2003 follow-up double-disc Speakerboxxx/The Love Below sparked rumors of a split within the duo, it also sparked two No. 1 Billboard Hot 100 singles and won the Grammy for Album of the Year, one of two rap albums ever to do so. “Goodie Mob dope as hell,” says DJ Swift, OutKast’s longtime tour DJ and Andre’s confidante. “But I think OutKast was just so high it kind of overshadowed them a little bit.”
But at one point, even Goodie Mob— who’ve weathered their own storms— were confused about the status of OutKast. Though they’ve had their share of tension, Big Boi says he and Andre find the endless break-up speculation annoying. “There was never no need to announce a break up,” says Big. “That probably would have been beneficial to both of us, because that way we could have got out of our contract.” Nevertheless, he insists that OutKast is now and always has been together.
The strain on their partnership first became evident after the commercially successful effort Stankonia, which featured the smash singles “Ms. Jackson” and “So Fresh, So Clean.” Lucrative endorsement deals were offered, but Dre refused to sign off on anything that didn’t fit his strict vegetarian lifestyle. Due to some shrewd real estate investments early on, Andre was financially secure enough to turn offers down. “As far as money, he was already straight,” says Rico. “He wasn’t really spending. Like, Dre ain’t got no Bentley.”
“To be very honest, nigga fucked up some of my money,” Rico throws in. “Tide wanted to use ‘So Fresh, So Clean’ for promotion. Dre wouldn’t sign off, and Tide changed their mind.” Then came an offer from the California Milk Processor Board. “I thought the ‘Got Milk?’ ad was some cool shit,” Big says. “I (told Dre), ‘Shit man, you can get some soy milk!’ and he said, ‘Man, people ain’t gon’ know that’s some damn soy milk!’ I was like, Damn!”
Dre stands by his decisions, but says he does regret that “taking so much money off the table” took a toll on his partnership with Big Boi. “I know it caused a rift,” Dre admits, “I know it gotta hurt some kind of way. Sometimes I sit and think, like ‘How can I show (Big) that I appreciate him keeping cool?’”
There was much to keep cool about, including lost concert money. After headlining the successful Smoking Grooves tour in 2002, Dre informed Big that he didn’t want to hit the road any more. “He said ‘Fuck that, I ain’t going out,’” Big recalls. “I thought he was just playing… But we came out with Speakerboxxx/Love Below and he still... And then Idlewild. He really didn’t want to do it.”
Andre’s excuse for not touring was simple: “I got bored with it.”
But when it came time for him to explain his “boredom” to Big Boi, he struggled. “Man, those were the hardest conversations in the world,” he says. “I didn’t want to take money away from my partner so at one point I was like, ‘Let’s take somebody that looks like me, and just go out and do it!’” He pauses and laughs nervously. “(But) I was like, ‘Nah, we can’t do our fans like that. We can’t trick them.’”

OutKast was always more than a group. From day one, their unique, experimental sound and style made them a phenomenon. Dre says that when they first met Rico, “He sold us a dream.” As they spent more and more time chasing that dream at the Dungeon, Dre’s mother Sharon Benjamin Hodo grew suspicious. “Dre’s mom didn’t want him to be over at the Dungeon rapping because that didn’t seem like the road out,” says Rico’s cousin Mr. DJ, who became a producer for OutKast and other Dungeon fam acts. “Same with Big Boi, he would have problems with coming over to the Dungeon late night with a bunch of guys hanging out, smoking and rapping.”
Hip-hop did open new opportunities for Andre 3000. Always marching to his own drum, Dre began drifting away from the Dungeon Family in the mid 2000s. “Dre always wanted to lay his verse last. That’s some peculiar shit,” recalls Nikki, who formerly worked as Dee Dee Murray’s assistant in Organized Noize Records’ Atlanta office. “But he would still come to the Dungeon and listen to tracks, and pick up something. He wasn’t calling people. He was slowly distancing himself.”
“The whole situation really went for a turn once Dre started putting on those wigs,” says Big Gipp of Goodie Mob, “and started doing things that our street homeboys didn’t like. I think it distanced (him and Big) from each other.”
Dre’s wardrobe changes were widely attributed to his relationship with Seven’s mother, Erykah Badu. But Swift dismisses this notion. “If you go back to Southernplayalistic, he started off with jerseys and baseball hats,” he says. “But by the second album, ATLiens, niggas were trying to be genies and shit. Erykah ain’t got nothing to do with that.” Dungeon Family members began to joke about Erykah’s mysterious “spell” on men once she started dating Common in 2000. “The other dude after me didn’t help my case,” Dre quips. “It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.” Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”
By the time Speakerboxxx/Love Below was released in 2003, it was clear that the members of OutKast were heading in different directions artistically. Big Boi’s disc was more of a traditional OutKast record, resulting in the No. 1 Billboard Hot 100 “The Way You Move.” Meanwhile Andre was singing on his disc, and he scored his own No. 1 Hot 100 hit with “Hey Ya!”
Dre admits that he distanced himself from the Dungeon Family at one point, mainly because of his musical shyness. “I wasn’t confident with my voice,” he says, “My voice wasn’t really that strong so I had to be by myself to do it. If I’m rapping I can have dudes all in the studio, smoking out. But it’s a whole different thing to be singing, ‘I hope you’re the one but if not you’re the prototype.’”
Andre first tried singing on “Synthesizer” from OutKast’s 1998 album Aquemini, and even then his partner was perplexed. Swift recalls the first time Big heard the track: “I’ll never forget… he was like, ‘Man, I don’t know if niggas in the streets want to hear that shit. That hurt Dre’s feelings bad.”
Dre made The Love Below sessions extra exclusive. Swift was one of the few people who witnessed Andre 3000’s magnum opus about the thing that scares him the most: love. “Dre got an extreme level of passion for women,” he says. “This nigga love women… But I think love and life has disappointed him ... So I think he’d just rather sing about walking down that road of love than to actually experience it.”
Meanwhile, longtime production trio Organized Noize—Rico Wade, Ray Murray, and Sleepy Brown—were left to deal with the offense of none of their tracks being used for the double album. “The records that we worked on for Big Boi didn’t make Speakerboxxx,” says Ramon Campbell, Rico’s oldest friend. “It’s one of the biggest albums OutKast put out and we didn’t have anything to do with it. And that hurts… It kind of made us look foolish.” But according to Big Boi, “That’s just how it came out. Shit, whoever was in the studio with me was who I was recording with. Sleepy Brown (whose vocals are featured on a number of tracks) was in there with me every week I was in the studio.”
The album earned rave reviews, and everything was great for OutKast until a friend of Andre’s filed suit claiming that he deserved a percentage of publishing credit for co-writing the interlude “God.” Some Dungeon Family members believe the lawsuit was karma. “(OutKast) were trying to keep as much of the publishing as they could,” says Big Rube, another longtime buddy of Wade’s, who was not credited for his spoken-word poetry on OutKast’s first album. “They were trying to do some Michael Jackson shit—want to buy all the publishing,” he says. “But Michael Jackson break you off till where you felt cool selling him your shit. Everybody deserve to get money. Niggas helped y’all get on. Without us y’all wouldn’t be OutKast. Rico made up the fucking name. I love them, and they talented as fuck, but niggas got to realize that y’all didn’t get there by yourself.”
By the time OutKast recorded Idlewild, some sources suggest Big and Dre were turning on each other. The song “Mighty O” was the last straw. “They were dissing each other on that,” says Nikki. Though Ray Murray, who helped produce the track, declines to comment, Big and Dre vehemently deny any rivalry.
“That is the most hilarious thing I’ve ever heard,” Dre says.
“My verse was intended for anybody filling out that application,” Big says dryly.
Nonetheless, after the unimpressive sales of Idlewild Dre begin hopping on all sorts of hot southern rap records, from Unk’s 2006 “Walk It Out” to Rich Boy’s 2007 “Throw Some D’s.” Rap bloggers called him untouchable, Jay-Z referred to him as a “genius,” and in VIBE’s 2009 Real Rap Issue Eminem called him “the best rapper.”
Meanwhile, Big Boi was feeling the pressure. “I really think Big Boi is a better rapper than I am,” Andre, who says people never compare him and Big in person, out of “respect,” claims. “Like, if I’m another rapper and I had to battle one of us, I would say, I don’t want Big Boi, let me do Dre first.”
Rico is less diplomatic. “Big and Dre stand side-by-side, but things like ‘Hey Ya!’ put Dre in a different category,” he says. “Big Boi didn’t market himself that way. Big understands that he got to work a little harder. It ain’t Dre’s fault.” In early 2010, Big Boi plans to release his first solo album, Sir Luscious Leftfoot: The Son of Chico Dusty, featuring collaborations with everyone from Mary J. Blige to Gucci Mane. “That’s really the only reason they’re doing solo albums,” Rico says. “So it won’t look like Big’s in Dre’s shadow.”
Details of Andre 3000’s long awaited solo debut are shrouded in secrecy. Very few people have heard any of the tracks. But Rico, who’s producing part of the album along with Organized Noize, pulls out his white MacBook and plays a track called “Dandelion.” The beat has a warrior feel to it, and the drums are heavy. In the song, 3000 does what pleases him most: subliminally going over many listeners’ heads. Using droll puns, he compares himself to a “dandelion,” then spits, “hear me roar.” On the chorus, he takes the double entendres a step further: “I raps like a mummy.”
“He done got back inspired,” Swift says excitedly of Dre, who sometimes calls him in the middle of the night to rhyme his latest lyrics. “I heard some new verses,” Swift says, “and he goddamn killing it!”
Big says that OutKast will definitely drop another album, but Dre’s vision for the future isn’t so clear. “I’m not sure how it’s going to end up,” he says. “I’m kind of at this point where…” his sentence trails off into a sigh. “I’m always at this point where, ‘How long will I want to do it?’ To be honest, if it wasn’t for Big Boi, OutKast probably wouldn’t be around.”
But Swift says they must release another OutKast record. “Fuck what I say—the contract say they got to deliver another album,” he says. “It ain’t over!”

Back in Atlanta, Rico Wade hops out of a black Chevy Suburban and walks into a Publix supermarket. After he was caught speeding Rico’s license was suspended, so he’s riding shotgun. His burly homeboy waits in the parking lot while Rico runs in to cop $50 worth of crab legs.
Rico wears a red and black letterman jacket and jeans so baggy he has to manually hold them up. Still, he commands the attention of shoppers who give curious “Is that Rico Wade?” stares as he strolls around with armfuls of bagged lettuce and a pocketful of “producer money.” It’s one day before his 37th birthday. A decade ago, he’d be throwing a party of the century, but times have changed. “I’m going to be doing the same thing tomorrow that I’m doing right now,” he says.
The past few years have left Rico with little to celebrate. The soundtrack work Organized Noize was getting—they have crafted music for films starting with 1992’s Home Alone 2: Lost in New York, 1993’s CB4, 1995’s New Jersey Drive, followed by1996’s Set it Off and Fled, 1997’s Home Alone Christmas, Hoodlum, and Money Talks, 1998’s Bulworth, 1999’s The Wood, The Mod Squad, and the animated series The P.J.’s, the 2000 remake of Shaft, 2001’s Bridget Jones’ Diary, 2004’s Barbershop 2: Back in Business—wasn’t enough to make ends meet and in 2004, Rico filed for bankruptcy. Though Organized Noize continued to produce movie soundtracks from 2005’s Hitch on through 2006’s Snakes On A Plane, the worst was yet to come.
In 2007 his right-hand man Ramon went to stay in L.A. for a year. When he returned, he noticed a change in Rico. “He was going through a period where he was dealing with so much in his personal life,” Ramon says. “I wanted to be careful about how I addressed it, because he’s like a brother to me.”
Once flashy and vibrant, Rico seemed less motivated and slightly unkempt. Rico would eventually sit Ramon and Ray Murray down in his kitchen and reveal that he had been using cocaine.
“It’s just a mind stimulant,” Rico says. “If you was tired, it wakes you up. But for me, it’d just make me want to do music.” He says the first time he tried the drug, it reminded him of ecstasy, which he says had him walking around his house, laughing at himself, “(like) nobody was here… I was so paranoid.”
“I didn’t go to rehab,” Rico continues. “I kicked the habit because of God. You look at yourself in the mirror and it’s like, come on man, we grew up in the hood, we’ve seen crackheads, we’ve heard stories, laughed at people. You’ve got to want to do it for yourself.”
Though his friends stuck by him, Rico’s last girlfriend, left him during his battle with drugs. “I really feel in my heart that she left because it just didn’t seem like I was going to get better,” he says. Though she has since married another man, Rico says she called him on his birthday. “If you don’t love (a man) for thinking outside the box, then you don’t love them, because all the financial security and all that stuff—if that’s what you’re around for, then you can get that from a nigga working at UPS.”
Back at the house, Rico, Ramon, and Money-B from Digital Underground dip into the seafood platter, and talk passionately about George Clinton, and one of 2Pac’s Death Row-era producers Johnny J, who committed suicide in October 2008.
After being deeply involved in the hip hop industry for over a decade, it’s a wonder Rico has been able to survive so much. In May of this year he received notice that he was losing his “white house”—including the legendary Dungeon West studio in the basement—because of unpaid taxes. He moved into Ray’s home, Dungeon East, several days before this story’s photoshoot this past June.
“The bank put a lien on the house,” he explains calmly. “The equity I got in my home I can’t get out.” He says girlfriends have criticized him for being so blasé about his financial problems. “They start thinking like, He’s never mad. Like, You need to be tripping. You need to be calling niggas right now, tripping. And it’s like, I agree, but that’s just not the way God has built me."
Even when forced to move out of Dungeon headquarters, Rico was not bitter but reflective. “(The Dungeon artists) kept their money. But (Organized Noize) had opportunities to make more money than anybody and still be making money. So I don’t fault nobody but us…us not really being prepared.” He also blames a former accountant for failing to file taxes back in the ’90s when the biggest checks started coming. “We ended up catching a tax debt for like a million dollars,” he says.
Despite everything, Rico seems in surprisingly high spirits. He talks a mile a minute about opening up a Dungeon café, and hitting the studio again. But once whispers of his foreclosure began circulating around the industry, Rico’s old friend Marqueze Etheridge (who’s credited with writing TLC’s Organized Noize–produced smash “Waterfalls”), called him at the studio to see if he was okay. “I was trying to be all cool on the phone, like, ‘Whattup boy!’” Rico recalls. “But he was like, ‘Rico…for real, what’s been going on?’” Overwhelmed, Rico broke down and started crying over the phone. It was the first time he came to grips with his hard reality.
“Rico’s gon’ be alright,” says, Gipp adding that the “Family” has put aside any differences to support him throughout his humbling financial crises. “Rico’s just finding out all the love he got out there,” Gipp adds, assuring that—without going into financial details—Rico is now “good.” After all the ups and downs, the Dungeon Family may now be closer than they’ve ever been.
In his darkest hours, Rico’s thoughts turned to a conversation he had with his mother, back before the house, when he was first bringing the Dungeon Family together to hang out, make music, and change their lives. “My mama told me once, ‘I think everybody around you is using you,’” says Rico. “‘You got a car, you pick them up, you take them home, you place everybody’s needs over yours.’ And I said, ‘Mama… what if I’m using them?’” Not understanding, she asked for an explanation. “I said, ‘They got dreams, mama, that I can make a reality,’” he pauses, reflective. “I just appreciated hearing about their dreams,” he says. “It gave me something else to believe in.” ––Linda Hobbs

.

is it possible to forget how to post?

they had a double album that went diamond and he was bored?...
dre's "experiment" was a success.
i think he was scared to do them love below songs live
as an artist i just don't see anyone passing this opportunity.
i'm not talking money.
if i was big i would be mad as hell too.
he could jump on throw some d's and walk it out but no kryptonite
yeah i feel you big...

If you play a record for Big, you have to stop the playback before he starts writing to it and jacks your song, lol. Dre was basically dissing "Walk It Out"'s main demographic, and "Throw Some" was probably some weird, NBA-like trade between him & Lil' Jon. He's rarely at Stank, so he probably didn't hear Kryptonite til it was done.

i remember killer mike said something to the degree that big asked dre to get on a remix to kryptonite and he declined. it was already intially out at the point.

Not saying I'm right & you're wrong, cuz it's all coulda/shoulda/woulda at this point.

@ the 2004 Grammy's.

but yeah, if i was Big Boi, i'd be upset too. sounds like he's compromised a lot for the sake of the group. the commercials, not touring, the record label.....shit is weird.

like that.

They would have had to really get their shit together in terms of presentation/production values, Dre woulda had to get over his fear of singing in public, they woulda had to figure out a way to pace a show filled with odd stuff from Love Below alongside joints like 'Hootie Hoo', their musicians would have actually been turned up loud enough to hear over the DJ/DAT they use, etc.

but it could've been done. if andre was willing. and if he's kept his guitar playing up, he should be quite good by now.

I hope they can work things out.

Nice post.

that nigga is not a team player at all damn. I mean take ONE for the team sometime. Just one.

to be made into a Tide jingle considered selfish.

Shit, back in the day we gave Hammer shit about doing KFC ads & no self-respecting rap fan even still liked Hammer by that point anyway.

I'm way past the days of calling people sell-outs for getting paid to pimp products but the pendulum ain't swung so far in my mind that I'm gonna criticize Dre for not signing off to have one of his signature songs being used to sell laundry detergent because Rico couldn't 'Stay Off That Blow!'*BREAK*

take eeem ta chuuch

gotten $$$...mainly, the touring. instead of saying no all the time, he could've compromised better and it wouldn't have put such a strain on their relationship.

instead of thinking of ways to make it right, just make some sacrifices in favor of big boi.

>gotten $$$...mainly, the touring. instead of saying no all
>the time, he could've compromised better and it wouldn't have
>put such a strain on their relationship.
>
>instead of thinking of ways to make it right, just make some
>sacrifices in favor of big boi.

'make sacrifices in favor of big boi'? How about splitting all the money that group has generated 50/50 while clearly being more responsible for their success?

>'make sacrifices in favor of big boi'? How about splitting all
>the money that group has generated 50/50 while clearly being
>more responsible for their success?

lol, that's complete bullshit. why do you revisionists perpetuate this lie?

Andre is the public face of OutKast. Andre sold 80% of the albums that were purchased by white people. I love Big and I think he's severely underrated, but there is no way that group blows up like they did with anyone but Andre involved. Big is Scottie Pippen, but Dre is MJ. That's just how it is.

>Andre is the public face of OutKast.

No. Andre & big boi are the public faces of outkast. always have been

Andre sold 80% of the
>albums that were purchased by white people.

substantiate this claim.

I love Big and I
>think he's severely underrated, but there is no way that group
>blows up like they did with anyone but Andre involved. Big is
>Scottie Pippen, but Dre is MJ. That's just how it is.

why do yall hate big boi so much so that you want to write him out of outkast. Andre Benjamin has NEVER EVER carried big boi in any fashion.

You're so in the guy's corner that you're not willing to see it. Or even consider it. I mean really - does Big have a cartoon? Did he write a song that was so ubiquitous I heard it in the cubicles around me for months on end? Has he ever been so visible that even my white, Cure-listening girlfriend knew who he was and said she thought he was "cute"?

You're looking at it from a rap fan's perspective. OutKast became a pop group. "Way You Move" was a big hit, yeah, but that double album didn't move 50 bazillion copies (or half - 25 bazillion) on the back of "Way You Move." Take it from me, a white rap fan who has loved OutKast for a long time but is embedded in the white suburban community and knows what all these people are listening to and buying. It's not a coincidence that their greatest commercial success by a long ways occurred during the stretch when "Hey Ya" was playing everywhere constantly and Andre was showing up dressed like a loon on the cover of "Rolling Stone" (Big Boi was there but Dre was the flamboyant one, and note that the headline said - yup - "Hey Ya!"). Even my white friends who are more in the know (there are three of them) can't get off Andre's nuts.

You know why you hear that opinion so much around the Lesson? White folks. Andre gets that kind of attention. I don't consider that a slight against him (the man is a genius at what he does) or Boi either, for that matter. But you're fighting against reality. Big Boi is not interesting to the general public in the same way Andre is.

>You're so in the guy's corner that you're not willing to see
>it. Or even consider it. I mean really - does Big have a
>cartoon?

no. but what's the point with that?

Did he write a song that was so ubiquitous I heard
>it in the cubicles around me for months on end?

yeah. the way you move. i'm sure you've heard a smooth jazz version of it at some point in your office.

Has he ever
>been so visible that even my white, Cure-listening girlfriend
>knew who he was and said she thought he was "cute"?

visibility. yes, he's visible. if your girl didn't notice him, that's on her. Sure andre is a celebrity in his own right, but i'm talking about outkast, not their individual endeavors.

>
>You're looking at it from a rap fan's perspective.

from an Outkast fan's perspective.

OutKast
>became a pop group. "

thanks, i know that.

Way You Move" was a big hit, yeah, but
>that double album didn't move 50 bazillion copies (or half -
>25 bazillion) on the back of "Way You Move." Take it from me,
>a white rap fan who has loved OutKast for a long time but is
>embedded in the white suburban community and knows what all
>these people are listening to and buying. It's not a
>coincidence that their greatest commercial success by a long
>ways occurred during the stretch when "Hey Ya" was playing
>everywhere constantly and Andre was showing up dressed like a
>loon on the cover of "Rolling Stone" (Big Boi was there but
>Dre was the flamboyant one, and note that the headline said -
>yup - "Hey Ya!"). Even my white friends who are more in the
>know (there are three of them) can't get off Andre's nuts.


that last sentence is ultimately my point. I love 3000, but heads be on his nuts so hard that it's easy to miss the big boi boat. Speakerboxx was a superb album.

>
>You know why you hear that opinion so much around the Lesson?
>White folks. Andre gets that kind of attention. I don't
>consider that a slight against him (the man is a genius at
>what he does) or Boi either, for that matter. But you're
>fighting against reality. Big Boi is not interesting to the
>general public in the same way Andre is.

>>yup - "Hey Ya!"). Even my white friends who are more in the
>>know (there are three of them) can't get off Andre's nuts.
>
>
>that last sentence is ultimately my point. I love 3000, but
>heads be on his nuts so hard that it's easy to miss the big
>boi boat. Speakerboxx was a superb album.

I agree, "Speakerboxxx" was the BETTER of those two albums. But Andre has that mad genius appeal and that pop thing. I'm not saying it's right that people are so on his nuts, but that reflects reality and public opinion, I think. There's a pretty large perception that Andre is the driver of OutKast, and I think without a doubt was the larger share of why SB/LB sold so many copies - EVEN THOUGH Big's album was better and "Way You Move" was a HUGE single.

>
>>'make sacrifices in favor of big boi'? How about splitting
>all
>>the money that group has generated 50/50 while clearly being
>>more responsible for their success?
>
>lol, that's complete bullshit. why do you revisionists
>perpetuate this lie?
>
There's no revisionism in stating that Andre holds more commercial appeal & is the higher-profile face of the group, it's just fact.

Now that might be tough for some of the deluded underdog-championing set to swallow but it's the truth......check the chart performance of their Andre-lead singles for proof, or their feature fees, or their movie careers, the perception of anyone in their camp, the amount of times each get put in the supermarket magazines, etc.

And that's before you even start getting into the actual mechanics of making music where Andre easily trumps Big Boi in terms of versatility, lyrics, charsima, etc. But I'll grant you that part of it is subjective, the other stuff isn't.

There's a reason why on one hand the record company is salivating at the thought of Andre actually finishing an album while Big can't even get one he completed ages ago put out because none of the feelers have worked so far.

>And that's before you even start getting into the actual
>mechanics of making music where Andre easily trumps Big Boi in
>terms of versatility, lyrics, charsima, etc. But I'll grant
>you that part of it is subjective, the other stuff isn't.

well thanks at least for that, lol

this is a business. fuck that moral shit. andre don't wash his drawers? i guess he use organic detergent or some shit. it wouldn't hurt dude to make money and help his people make some.

andre don't wash
>his drawers? i guess he use organic detergent or some shit

>this is a business. fuck that moral shit. andre don't wash
>his drawers? i guess he use organic detergent or some shit.

Rico probably woulda prolly already snorted those detergent dollars like the AJAX lady by now anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUmVd4RQZCo

> andre don't wash
>his drawers? i guess he use organic detergent or some shit. it
>wouldn't hurt dude to make money and help his people make
>some.

theres nothing sellout about that
I don't use Tide myself but if it was me and I shared writer credit with people who wanted to do it I'd have signed off on it and had them divy up my portion of the money amongst themselves

kill the dude for turning down one of his songs being in thirty-second spots with a dancing Snuggle Bear or whatever.

The bottom line is Dre made those people a lot more money than he lost them.

This dude is a grown-ass man/talented producer who was older & had more industry experience than Dre did at that time, yet he's crying over this shit years later.

Here's some advice for Rico: try to make a hit in the past eight years, try not to develop a debilitating drug habit & then maybe you can stop focusing on trivial things like an endorsement opportunity that got away from you nearly a decade ago.

i mean he costs his supposed friends what could have been millions

you can have your stance & all but rule #1 among the people is you take care of your own to the greatest extent possible

that wouldnt have cost him a thing


avy: not new to this im true to this


Bin's Super Soulful Record of the Week (1/18 update):
http://tiny.cc/pRDHJ

no logical explanation

dang can't wait to read the rest of this...the Tide commerical woulda been kinda weak though...i wonder did Tide actually want Kast in the commercial too..i wonder would it have been targeted to all markets or be singular like the Sunny Delight commercials that air only on BET with nothing but black folks in it???

and people believeing what these drug addicts talking about
dre is right, he knows big boi is a better rapper, Andre used dress up to cover his weakness to big boi lyrically

nm

some things neva change... atypical music scene bs... i wont even comment other than to say i enjoyed this look into the worlds of a crew i revere(d) but its always a sad state of affairs, dating back "as long as the guitar plays..."(c)Jagger/Richards

>Dre admits, “I know it gotta hurt some kind of way. Sometimes I sit >and think, like ‘How can I show that I appreciate him keeping >cool?"

Fa real.
---
If you release what is within u, what u release will save you. If you do not release what is within u, what u do not release will destroy u.

these cats need a movie or at least a behind the music maybe a 2 hour episode

>these cats need a movie or at least a behind the music maybe
>a 2 hour episode

I.e., people that wouldn't give enough of a fuck to read that article.

My girl's little brother thought/thinks that Dre' is the "lead lyric writer" for OutKast, lol. Dumb, yes, to people that know better, but I think it's a popular opinion of a Stankonia-to-current-day listener.

but maybe I'm a music nerd.

When I read the DF article in Creative Loafing years ago...I immediately thought, "This would be a great film."

There are elements to the story, at least as presented in Vibe and creative loafing, that could resonate w/casual music fans...

rags to riches(relatively speaking)
riches to rags(relatively speaking)
women...drugs...all of the requisite aspects of any Rock Biopic...

but then...I guess that's the point...as "pop" as Outkast became...would the kids care enough to check out a movie about 'em?

I've got to say they've got the most fairweather fans, probably only 2nd to Nas. A DF movie would never have "enough" OutKast in it for people that aren't really-really down.

i don't give a fuck. big's better than me. i couldn't have 3000 for a business partner.

He's carried Big Boi his whole career. This has nothing to do with Big Boi's skill as an emcee, but he's not platinum without Dre. I mean really, would you have listened to "Royal Flush" more than 3 times if 3K wasn't on it?


kev

>He's carried Big Boi his whole career.

lies

This has nothing to do
>with Big Boi's skill as an emcee, but he's not platinum
>without Dre.

more lies. "the way you move" was a number 1 hit. he's had several without dre.

I mean really, would you have listened to "Royal
>Flush" more than 3 times if 3K wasn't on it?

yes. big boi is one of my favorite mcs and one of the sickest on the planet. of course i would.

just a few...I wouldnt mind seeing Killer Mike back in, Pill, B.o,B, Freddie Gibbs

not sure i'd add anyone else as far as rappers, but janelle monae and scar can sing a little, bring them back in the fold

they definitely have some moments of greatness, but the name gets spread so far that they couldn't sustain the original DF level of standards.

like were those current quotes? Gipp talkin about Andre's fashion? He sounded real bitter. Rube sounded bitter....since when is it not good for an artist to want their publishing? IMO this could have been THE greatest collective in hip hop history...and it just fell apart. I'm more sad than anything

well said

Andre won't have to tour or do anything else lol.

I forget, did he do any beats on Speakerboxxx?

boi's production prowess is more underestimated than his rhyme skills

I like Bust.

good read...thanks for posting..

We need more articles and interviews and stories like this.....


this is the real side of artists and producers we never get to hear or read about...it's what makes them real like us.

their story is definitely interesting and I would love a behind the music or something on it.

first thing, Gipp and Rube are bitter...period. well maybe Gipp is just delusional because he did go from Goodie to the St Lunatics.

second, Rico had it the worst. Maybe he made some bad decisions with money, maybe he deserved what he had coming to him but either way, he founded this whole shit...there is no way in hell Big Boi, Andre or Cee-Lo let that shit happen. that shit is a simple check for them. however, I know they are not responsible and I know maybe Rico didn't even mention shit because he didn't want to ask for help. but it's sad to see dudes come up like they did and get disconnected to the point where someone is in the position like Rico was in and 'friends' don't even know about it or know to lend a hand.

third, I'm torn on the Dre not signing off on the endorsements. I can see both sides. I personally love when people stand up for when they believe in. but when other people are involved, you sometimes have to swallow your pride. i mean, there's always a way out because people will understand you doing it for the well-being of people around you and for capitalizing on an opportunity to keep loved ones fed.

as far as the tour, I can understand being tired of that shit. I agree with someone above that Dre was probably just not ready to sing those songs live. but, you did put out a record and i find it hard to believe that there is nothing in the contract stating they had to tour for each record they put out. so while I can understand Dre's side, I can see Big being upset as well.

Dre is right about there being no Kast without Big because throughout all this bullshit, he has been the loyal one. but to all you idiots, i see you mathmagic, saying Big doesn't need Dre...why do you think Big is so persistent in keeping the group together?

Dre is without a doubt the commercial figure of the group. how can he not be with the way he presents himself? however, it wasn't always like that. they were a true duo at one point. and I honestly think with each release, Dre started distancing himself more and more and as he did, he just so happened to become the more noticeable member.

I don't know if either of them would be platinum without the other from the jump...but from Stankonia on...Big Boi largely benefited from being in a group with Andre. sure, The Way You Move was huge but Big Boi was already solidified by being a member of Kast...the group of Andre 3000.

>second, Rico had it the worst. Maybe he made some bad
>decisions with money, maybe he deserved what he had coming to
>him but either way, he founded this whole shit...there is no
>way in hell Big Boi, Andre or Cee-Lo let that shit happen.
>that shit is a simple check for them. however, I know they
>are not responsible and I know maybe Rico didn't even mention
>shit because he didn't want to ask for help. but it's sad to
>see dudes come up like they did and get disconnected to the
>point where someone is in the position like Rico was in and
>'friends' don't even know about it or know to lend a hand.

i mean its a sad story for rico, but this is his fault. i can't feel any sympathy for him. like big boi said, whoever was in the studio, got on the record. if he knows this, and he's off getting high.....its his fault. also, people were making records and touring and whatnot, they have their own lives. its not like they were back in the dungeon. so if rico doesn't say "i have a problem" its not like they are gonna know....it is sad to see it fall apart, but its especially telling on rico's part because he had the vision and the talent. it just went to waste for him through bad deals, and a drug habit.

I agree about it being his fault, as far as we know.

but still, friends are supposed to be there for you and understanding when you're down and out.

that's when people need to step in and get him some help whether mentally or financially or whatever.

what type of friends say "fuck it, dude has a drug problem, not my problem" to someone you came up with and someone you once said was the leader/mentor of the DF?

I understand people are on tour and doing their own thing, but at some point you have to come back down to earth and put the music on the back burner and take care of personal business. easier said than done, i know.

and paving the path to your success, give the man some money to pay his taxes for his house
this isn't a hanger-on we're talking about, this is the guy that crafted your sound and got you your deal when nobody believed in you
thats worth a million dollars right there if you ask me
and I'm not saying they didn't do that but it'd be a shame if they didn't at least offer

>
>what type of friends say "fuck it, dude has a drug problem,
>not my problem" to someone you came up with and someone you
>once said was the leader/mentor of the DF?
>

>their story is definitely interesting and I would love a
>behind the music or something on it.
>
>first thing, Gipp and Rube are bitter...period. well maybe
>Gipp is just delusional because he did go from Goodie to the
>St Lunatics.
>
>second, Rico had it the worst. Maybe he made some bad
>decisions with money, maybe he deserved what he had coming to
>him but either way, he founded this whole shit...there is no
>way in hell Big Boi, Andre or Cee-Lo let that shit happen.
>that shit is a simple check for them. however, I know they
>are not responsible and I know maybe Rico didn't even mention
>shit because he didn't want to ask for help. but it's sad to
>see dudes come up like they did and get disconnected to the
>Dre is right about there being no Kast without Big because
>throughout all this bullshit, he has been the loyal one. but
>to all you idiots, i see you mathmagic, saying Big doesn't
>need Dre...why do you think Big is so persistent in keeping
>the group together?

never said that, boss. i'm sayin people sweep big under the rug like he ain't shit when he's contributed every bit as much to kasts legacy as Dre. people tryna act like dre carried big the whole way. they carried each other.

>I don't know if either of them would be platinum without the
>other from the jump...but from Stankonia on...Big Boi largely
>benefited from being in a group with Andre. sure, The Way You
>Move was huge but Big Boi was already solidified by being a
>member of Kast...the group of Andre 3000.

hmmmm.... i guess i'm just not gonna agree, not all the way. yes big benefitted from dre. but the same is true the other way around. 3000 would've lost the streets a long time ago if it weren't for big.

people are talking about Kast's mainstream success.

of course Dre would've lost the streets. Big kept him grounded.

but at the end of the day...the streets didn't buy 10 million of Stankonia and Speakerboxxx/Love Below.

it's just a simple fact.

Andre somehow, whether you want to admit it or not, is the noticeable face of Kast.

this is coming from a fan since Player's Ball dropped.

and no one is sweeping Big under the rug. you are getting defensive instead of actually thinking about what we're saying.

>but at the end of the day...the streets didn't buy 10 million
>of Stankonia and Speakerboxxx/Love Below.
>
>it's just a simple fact.

you're absolutely correct. it was Stankonia that propelled outkast to pop superstardom, right? What singles drove the promotion of that album?

1. BOB: Equal parts Dre & Big.

2. Ms. Jackson: Again equal parts Dre and Big.

3. So Fresh, So Clean: a big boi/organoize dominated song.

So at what point did Andre single handedly send outkast into orbit?
i'll give you or anyone that hey ya was somewhat a bigger hit than the way you move, but they were already pop stars by then.


>
>Andre somehow, whether you want to admit it or not, is the
>noticeable face of Kast.

so what am i supposed to be admitting to? that's so subjective. i've never noticed one more than the other, so you can't generally assume others do just cuz you have a crush on Andre.

>
>this is coming from a fan since Player's Ball dropped.

i've been a fan just as long.

>
>and no one is sweeping Big under the rug.

you don't read these posts? there are a lot of people who seriously think andre carried this dude. and that's so ridiculous i won't stand for it.

>you're absolutely correct. it was Stankonia that propelled
>outkast to pop superstardom, right? What singles drove the
>promotion of that album?
>
>1. BOB: Equal parts Dre & Big.
>

Let's analyze what most people (not Kast fanatics like you and I because out of both verses I have Boi's memorized) remember when we think of this song. Dre dressing crazy again in the video. Dre's hook and dancing in the video with the female. the absolute chaotic nature of the song which includes a guitar solo/scratching breakdown, which wouldn't even be in the song if Dre folded for the label.

>2. Ms. Jackson: Again equal parts Dre and Big.
>

what are you talking about equal parts? are you talking verses? ok, Big Boi had a 16 and a 8 if I recall correct. Dre had a 16 and chose to sing 8 before his 16. so yea, they're equal in that sense.
now, again...what do we remember? the FUCKING HOOK (am I having this conversation, really?). the 8 bars Dre chose to sing. how about "Forever-ever-ever-ever"??
how can you not recognize Dre as the one that sticks out? I'm with you, I like Big Boi as well but I'm not completely ignorant to the fact that the one that connects with the majority is Dre. I was actually JUST having a conversation about this today with a mild hip-hop fan. and as he put it, "Big Boi seems to lean more towards the cliche rapper that can be somewhat disrespectful to woman, whereas Dre is a unique artist that has class" again, not my words, this is coming from someone that doesn't even listen to hip-hop. so now we have Dre crossing over into other genres and gaining fans which is a LARGE part of why they sold all of those record. you can't sell 10 mill+ without grabbing the ear and respect from listeners of other genres.


>3. So Fresh, So Clean: a big boi/organoize dominated song.
>

I'll give you this one I guess. the song is ALL ONP as far as I'm concerned. and this really because I don't feeling like proving my point any more but I'm willing to bet more people know Dre's verse and unique rhyme pattern as well as his singing bridge at the end than they do Big Boi's 2 verses. Not to mention this track came out 3rd so they had already sold a large percentage of that 10 million by the time it did.


>So at what point did Andre single handedly send outkast into
>orbit?

As I said, Andre began to distance himself more and more with each release and as he did, he was the one that stuck out. even the hip-hop heads were on some, "you see what Dre was wearing" when the Rosa Parks video came out. He is the member that people remember. i'm not saying he's better or saying there's a good reason for it, it just is.


>
>so what am i supposed to be admitting to? that's so
>subjective. i've never noticed one more than the other, so you
>can't generally assume others do just cuz you have a crush on
>Andre.
>

this is what you need to understand, just because YOU don't recognize one over the other, doesn't mean you can't step outside of your box and use common sense and see that the majority, especially non-traditional hip-hop fans, recognize and remember Dre before they do Big Boi. I'm like you, when I hear a Kast record, I hear a Kast record. but there are tons of people who see Dre as *Andre 300 the eccentric singer/rapper dude that dresses crazy from Kast* and they see Big Boi as the other guy in the group.


>
>you don't read these posts? there are a lot of people who
>seriously think andre carried this dude. and that's so
>ridiculous i won't stand for it.
>

for the record...every since Player's Ball I like Andre better. if I go back to Southern right now...Andre has more verses that stick with me from Claimin True to Ain't No Thang to Git Up Git Out (Cee-Lo got that one though) to DEEP. Andre has always stuck out as the better MC to me, from the beginning. but that isn't to say he carried them in the beginning. I just liked him better.

There's been plenty of duos/rap groups where while one member may have been marginally better than another - there really wasn't much difference stylistically between them. The contrast between 3K and Big Boi, and not their individual prowess has been their key to success and in this thread people don't seem to realize that. That's even how they were marketed post ATLiens - "The Player and The Poet".

I see it like this - while Dre is the most commercially palatable (read: non-threatening to whites) of the two, if he was in a group with another person like himself - they'd most likely be written off as a novelty act after the fascination wears off. If there was a group with two MCs like Big Boi, I could see them having moderate UGK style success, but not doing much in the pop arena. These two need each other to complete the formula, and there's no way around it.

>There's been plenty of duos/rap groups where while one member
>may have been marginally better than another - there really
>wasn't much difference stylistically between them. The
>contrast between 3K and Big Boi, and not their individual
>prowess has been their key to success and in this thread
>people don't seem to realize that. That's even how they were
>marketed post ATLiens - "The Player and The Poet".
>
>I see it like this - while Dre is the most commercially
>palatable (read: non-threatening to whites) of the two, if he
>was in a group with another person like himself - they'd most
>likely be written off as a novelty act after the fascination
>wears off. If there was a group with two MCs like Big Boi, I
>could see them having moderate UGK style success, but not
>doing much in the pop arena. These two need each other to
>complete the formula, and there's no way around it.

well said indeed

>There's been plenty of duos/rap groups where while one member
>may have been marginally better than another - there really
>wasn't much difference stylistically between them. The
>contrast between 3K and Big Boi, and not their individual
>prowess has been their key to success and in this thread
>people don't seem to realize that. That's even how they were
>marketed post ATLiens - "The Player and The Poet".
>
>I see it like this - while Dre is the most commercially
>palatable (read: non-threatening to whites) of the two, if he
>was in a group with another person like himself - they'd most
>likely be written off as a novelty act after the fascination
>wears off. If there was a group with two MCs like Big Boi, I
>could see them having moderate UGK style success, but not
>doing much in the pop arena. These two need each other to
>complete the formula, and there's no way around it.

that the article said...

dre didn't need money cause of his real estate investments and HE DOESNT FLOSS AND SPEND MONEY ON BULLSHIT.

I wish more of us would look and this and realize if you get this money invest it and don't spend money on bs you can have the oppurnity to stand what you believe in and not take money and do what you want.

all of them got just as much money as dre if not more in the beginnin and they used it the wrong way..then when it dries up its DRE's fault cause he doesn't want to tour or sign off on some nonsense...Nigga don't be mad at him be mad at yourself..

I bet them niggaz was dissin him cause he wasn't ridin around in a bently but now they wanted his help when they bently gettin repoed.

and big gipp talkin about someone fashion get the fuck outta here nigga....I remember people thinkin dre and big gipp went together cause they both started dressin weird around the same time so gipp is the last nigga to say something.

.

truth

if u are in a group. and your partner decides to
- not tour after your best selling albums
- back out of a clothing line
- back out of co-running a label
- not sign off on commercials

eventually it puts a strain on the relationship, which is what happened with big n dre. neither one of them needs the money, its a about compromising. i'm not saying he needs to wear outkast clothing or help run stankonia records if his heart isn't in it....but on things which require no effort from him (Tide, Got Milk, etc.), he could compromise for the sake of their friendship and the group.

also, the ironic thing about gipp's statement is he dresses weirder than dre now.

>if u are in a group. and your partner decides to
>- not tour after your best selling albums
>- back out of a clothing line
>- back out of co-running a label
>- not sign off on commercials
>
>eventually it puts a strain on the relationship, which is what
>happened with big n dre. neither one of them needs the money,
>its a about compromising. i'm not saying he needs to wear
>outkast clothing or help run stankonia records if his heart
>isn't in it....but on things which require no effort from him
>(Tide, Got Milk, etc.), he could compromise for the sake of
>their friendship and the group.
>
>also, the ironic thing about gipp's statement is he dresses
>weirder than dre now.

looked out" shit

Fuck and that, the dude was smart with his bread, so he don't owe those other dudes shit

________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

also on Facebook

i mean shit. the only responsible, principled one of the bunch is being made to look like a fool? GTFOH with that BS. Dre matured out of the need to justify one's floss because one came from poverty, the rest didn't. your loss not his.

as much as we need him

the simple truth is its not about dre at all, its about the group. all those cats came up together, friends & family.

if by whatever reason you found yourself to be financially secure, would you turn your back on your friends or your family, thats what the shit comes down too

nobody said ok dre, give us money. they said, be a part of this shit we built, that you are the biggest most recognizable aspect of, friend...& help us make some more money.

& for dude to stand on something as intangible as principle when you talking abt helping who supposed to be your man, your boy...helping him feed & shelter his family...i dont understand the shit, personally

anybody that can be that cold blooded, something is seriously wrong w/


http://www.formspring.me/jfa

Bin's Super Soulful Record of the Week (1/21 update):
http://tinyurl.com/62ba3x

really if you stand for nothing you fall for anythin?....dats awful you would bend your princples for anything then they not princples are they...if they his friends and homeboys they wouldn't ask him too do that.

they'd be against Dre.

>“The whole situation really went for a turn once Dre started >putting on those wigs,” says Big Gipp of Goodie Mob, “and started >doing things that our street homeboys didn’t like. I think it >distanced (him and Big) from each other.”


....At first they was pimps man. Then they was some aliens, some genies, or some shit. Then they be talking bout that black rights in space man. Whatever... fuck them, I ain't fuckin with them no more.

And not surprisingly, niggas here are steady going at Dre's neck. Whatta shock.

EDIT: It's sad what happened to Rico, it really is, but cmon son, don't throw darts at the most popular member of the family because he knew to get his shit together when others didn't... and Rube and Gipp and nem ought to be ashamed of themselves for talking so greasy... I mean, we get it fam, y'all are upset about the breakup of the family, but they need to heed the advice of track 12 on Southernplayalistic...

And after rereading the Mighty "O" lyrics, I gotta say, Nikki had a point, it does read like Dre and Big are going at each other's throats...

_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/punannydiaries

also on Facebook

Ray's ex-wife Dee Dee is my music industry mom, lol.

when my band did a show there. cool as fuck. i was starstruck, i ain't gonna lie. Met Rico bout two months ago at the same venue when my band played there again. i remember he said, 'man, you look like you do some music!' i was pleased.

I met everyone else pretty much. And he's the main one I wanted to meet.