ok @RezanWhoi here is my beyonce is the new MJ argument.

thriller breaking open has more to do with the LONG overdue accolades america has FINALLY given black artists after 80 years of injustice.

threatening to shut mtv down if they don't play billie jean has MORE to do with the inequity social problems of america than it did billie jean being a brilliant song.

billie jean IS a brilliant song.

but the TIMING of its release had a WHOLE hell of alot to do with what was going on at the time.

imagine if they gave "super freak" love on mtv when they were supposed to.---you gonna tell me the song that sampled "super freak" could build an empire---but not the song that gave birth to it?

"super freak" was a victim of coming a year too early. when the invisible "no blacks allowed" sign was disguised as a "we play what our audience calls for" game.

that said yes of course. the luck and timing of thriller could NOT have happened to a better person and im HAPPY that i was alive at the time. mike worked hard to get to where he was and this is by far NOT an anti MJ post.

(for those coming late to the party--@RezanWho does NOT agree with me that beyonce is the heir to the MJ throne)


mean what more can i say?

she's well on her way at a quicker and later pace than the unspoken.

this is year 10 for her at THIS level.

it took MJ 13 years before he became GOD status.

noone is EVER disputing MJ being the STANDARD.

noone.

im pro mj til cows come home.


but you CANNOT dispute the fact that being "the first" kinda trumps everything.

i dont even consider Thriller an album more than i do consider it a 45 minute social experiment.

in other words if we LIVED in a world in which there was a FAIR LEVEL playing field in which RACE was NOT a factor in how art was received and promoted at radio:

in english?

--if there was a fair level playing field

-the idea of "watering down" music so that "america" (white people) can easily digest the music would not even be a factor in the creative process (and for those scratching heads that is the NUMBER ONE priority with songwriters and producers---the "popness" and accessibility of a song to someone who needs sugar before the medicine going down....---cause if that were NOT the case then P FUNK woulda had number one hit after number one hit in their 70's heyday.

-pop radio, news outlets, and the like would accept all artists in their formats.

(once again for late comers, mtv refused to play the billie jean video because "black music" was not their forte. ---"we are a rock channel"---sony threatened to take all videos off the air if mtv did not play it. it went from being a token move to singlehandedly allowing us to FINALLY play in some long overdue reindeer games.)

so again.

MJ is more a social experiment in my eyes.

who just so happened to make some kick ass music.

so yes. his music WAS magic. but my point is SOMEONE was gonna break the bank code in 1982.

it was due time

coulda been grandmaster flash

coulda been debarge.

coulda been lionel


coulda been prince.


someone was gonna pull the king arthur move.

mj was the victor.

NOW THAT SAID LETS START MY campaign.


if you are to pick the ONE figure in music today that is taking that baton:

mofos is looking everywhere.

ursh?
justin 1.0?
breezy?

name em.

who is MJ's heir?!?!?!

sorry.

the fact that she had to overcome SERIOUS obstacles to get to even being considered really brings the point home!

and since its the age of irony in which tiger is a pimp. the top rapper in 2010 is a white chick from cali

why not B?

when you make songs that enter the lexicon of america's everyday talk then...*shrug*? is she not a contender?

when you surpass making "a club song" or a "banger" and it winds up becoming "a friggin lifestyle. is she not a contender?

---im sorry there is some vitamin "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" injected into "crazy in love" ?whenever that shit comes on in the club.---i cant quite describes what it is when a song becomes a lifestyle instead of just a song....

--remember when "g thing" came out in 92 and made white people finally feel like niggas? (gheah!----and yall reading this dont even front like yall didnt get your vicarious "beyotch!" on during the chronic era---

THAT is the power of "Crazy in love". a song that made non model, regular, round the way, non black, overweight, uptight, not easy on the eyes, and whatever else category that is meant to be the physical opposite of however beyonce looked in the video....that song made women feel sexy.

---and it was HARD enough to make dudes wanna rhyme over that shit.

when a song can singlehandedly give someone a re-do (you do remember back when her first obstacle was overcoming being the next scrutinized diana ross to the remaining post survivor DC members as florence ballard era right?---she was supposed to be done then right?


crazy wiped our memory clean like that flashy thing in men in black.---


need i go on? she has surpassed the grammy quota. her videos are studied, copied, parodied, and other "ieds". she's her own empire. she writes her own material. newsworthy.

i mean you might have a personal "she stole my lunch money" thing going on--
and its kinda hard for me being a stan to someone you know---but the evidence is there. she appeals to all races. all lifestyle creeds from the kiddest of the kid. to the churchest of the church. s. straights. huxtable men and naborcof creeps. housewives and hoes.---i mean she has EVER demographic on LOCK.

she can ACTUALLY SING.
and dances with the best of them
face is a regular on most fashion mags
sells out stadiums
wins countless grammies
makes anthems
got bank
is her own industry

(still counts for something right?)

Source: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/gcs4e

Beyonce either in a group or solo has never made a memorable song period.

tin can albums.

she can sing and yet it is missing soul

MJ changed the course of music twice all Boreyonce has done

has changed the horse weave.


not great as a live performer. good and has had good moments.

Boreyonce kinda reminds me of kobe bryant in that she overacts and trys to create more storyline than needs to be,


considering al the hype Boreyonce gets you'd think whitney, diana ross, gladys knight,chaka khan would something to worry about?

she looks like a superstar, has pressence and charisma however most of her music wouldn't bring lisa lisa back

she has michael jackson aspiration however she is stuck with marlon jackson background tracks


fyi imo Lauyren Hill was the last closes act to run R&B,pop and hip-hop.

all the contrived grammys,etc ain't selling me on her

^^^^^^^^^^^

this


hey anybody tell Quest he DOESN'T work for Jay-Z anymore??

*****
RIP To The King

My friend's mixtapes. Check them out
http://sahboog.wordpress.com/downloads/

.. that alone is enough to put them on different levels.. not to mention the only catchy part of any of beyonce's songs is "to the left, to the left" (in my opinion)... and i mean, i LIKE beyonce, but most of her songs are mad boring.. is she still writing her own shit? if so, that needs to stop... but i hope her popularity continues tho.. i think she's good for music.. not like actual music, but the image.. everyone likes a winner and she's def. secured a spot near or at the top right now

yall hatin and frontin.

n/m

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

no joke, the destiny's child stuff was MUCH more catchy imo.. i root for beyonce.. it's just that i don't think she's had all that great material.. and ESP. not to be compared to mj..

there's not one Beyonce song I'd sing

and the only one I even *kinda* listened to was Me, Myself, and I

even if (straight / not drunk and emo) guys are singin her sh*t like Memph claims,
her material is still nowhere near being as universal as MJ's

> i think she's good for
>music.. not like actual music, but the image.. >

like, hold up, dont misconstrue me - good save

as her US popularity.

mj has caused hysteria everywhere. he was here in poland in 97 during history tour and a year later, i guess, to do some business (he wanted to launch some disneyworld-like park here) and both times there were images that you see pretty much everywhere where he went: huge welcoming at the airport, fans on the route, then at the hotel, him waving from the balcony etc. you've seen it a thousand times.

now, i've got nothing against the girl, but around the world she's selling out arenas, not stadiums.

can't compare a true superstar to a made for tv one.

not even close and to me that is a diss to MJ. beyonce is lucky that is all i know.

Hmmm....

I'll have to get back to you. I wanna put some thought into since the original poster did. ..

2004 was his "Off the Wall" (convention speech). 2008 was his "Thriller" (election). 2012 will be his "Bad" (re-election despite people wondering what he's done to himself).

Music is no longer as central to pop culture as it was 30 years ago, so no one can be the "next MJ." They can appropriate a number of things about him but it will never click in the same way. However, people in other spheres still have the opportunity to break ground the way MJ did. Obama did that.

issues aside what he accomplished so young and so dominant was very MJesque.

president Obama does owe MJ for cross over appeal and i see a MJ influence there

and i mean it...this board HATES beyonce...they give her zero credit for anything that she has ever accomplished...swear to god that she has no real good songs outside of maybe 2,or 3...they say she can't dance,isn't all that good of a singer....basically her whole existence is some result of us all being in some drug induced hypnotic state....lol....all highly laughable..


I don't ever like comparing people to michael,because i'm just not sure if there will ever be someone who will do what michael did...but beyonce at this point is the "top dog"...who has backed up her success with talent,intelligence,and the ability to be humble through it all....


nobody is perfect,but in this society where scum is hailed as the model for our kids,and way of life...beyonce makes anthems to raise the egos of little girls,and women everywhere...on top of the fact that these records resonate with a LARGE audience...and she's CONSISTENT...

even more interesting is how people will PRAISE justin timberlake,but shit on beyonce....gotta love okp...

everyone LIKES HER and loves her and she still just gettin started and keeps blowin up...

She already conquerining hollywood too.

and especially little girls. talking about many of her lyrics and her image here, not her success, which i commend even as someone who isn't a fan

>nobody is perfect,but in this society where scum is hailed as
>the model for our kids,and way of life...beyonce makes anthems
>to raise the egos of little girls,and women everywhere

i think there are better role models out there who aren't so guilty of the above

what are you talking about?

in looking for a pasteable list of her singles, i came across this, which sort of embodies what isn't wholesome about her image:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Beyonce-Deja_Vu_in_Sweden.jpg
and i've seen her wear way more risque costumes in concert. what does that tell your 10 year old daughter? anyway.

you can cherry pick whatever you think you mean by her "anthems." even just among her singles, you can hear exactly what i am talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9_Knowles_discography#Singles
if you choose to pretend i'm talking martian with my criticisms then i have no further interest in this conversation.

you just killed your own point posting those joints up...and are you serious with the picture?...yeah we really do need to stop...because you are on some out of this world reach....


typical okp response in regards to beyonce though..so nothing shocking..

>typical okp response in regards to beyonce though..so nothing
>shocking..

the typical okp response would be not caring about the effect beyonce has on women and especially younger girls because the TOKP is either a chauvinist male or a chickenhead female.

about her music,and or image....


i really have no idea what that's about either...but i've come to accept that it's just the way it is on here....

lets see Railroads all the female group mates

jacks other folks songs and takes credit

gets pimped by her pops and Husband

she is appealable,and yet it feels like she is raiding her momma's threads.

she can't articulate at all.

was a tacky glad bag turkey toward Etta James.

>she can't articulate at all.
>
>was a tacky glad bag turkey toward Etta James.

******
DVS and tREBLEFREE: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com
Mark de Clive-Lowe presents...Rahel - Hope: http://mashibeats.bandcamp.com/
Floating Points Ensemble feat Fatima - Mind: http://www.zshare.net/audio/724547131a82c251/

For no reason what so ever...

everything else you said is either irrelevant,or straight up false...



between the messages in her music,and everything she's done philanthropic wise...it speaks for itself....




but ignoring all that goes without saying in regards to beyonce on here.....on okp..beyonce is the devil in a prada dress..

are fast food and straight drive thru without much substance. so it makes sense.

let me tell you something if Etta James was White and she is BTW half Italian, however she is also Negro, if she was all White ain't no way in Sammy Davis Jr would she dare go to the white House and Perform a signature song.

folks don't have no respect and understanding when Beyonce gets in her 60's and let somebody name Crayola get up there and perform "Crazy in Love" for that era President I bet she will act differently.


you just madd because I called Beyonce out on her fraud ways as a artist.

no Songwriting or Producing

over singing and over performing having self.

non acting self.

alot of artists give back what's your point?

bottom line she is overrated and corny.

makes cute songs and is musically limited and uneducated.

some almost 30 something married woman walking around talking about to the left, to the left,

put a ring on it

and trying to make shock videos with non singing turkeys like Lady Gaga and Shakira??

if you knew your history you would understand why Etta James was upset and rightfully so.

chick gotta over spent to sell a album and re sell that same album 99 different ways with adding 1-2 more corny tracks.

She is a Cute Act without alot of energy I'll give her that and little else.


you see I grew up on the real stuff and this chick is minor league stuff 101.

back when the labels cared and had A&R somebody would have guided her thing and told her to make some real songs. not no corny "Ring the Alarm" but wait that song rivals Angela Davis speeches and Protests right?


just because she looks good doesn't excuse wack music. she and Mariah Carey are about 5th or 6th grade Musically literate IMO.

you diss everyone from erykah badu,to maxwell,to beyonce....so you trying to get on anyone about what they like,or dislike is comical at best....but there is nothing new about that..


beyonce was asked to go sing the song....she sang the song...it was not to disrespect etta james,nor has beyonce ever tried to disrespect etta james...it would completely contradict every reason why she said she wanted to portray etta to begin with...

etta is a diva...always has been,always will be...and that's what lead to her over reaction to beyonce doing that...it was completely classless,and tacky...but you,and your minions supporting that doesn't shock me at all...



and if someone who paid tribute to beyonce some 40 years from now in a movie,and was asked to sing one of her songs at an innaguaration i can almost guarantee you she wouldn't be mad,or show her ass the way etta did.....but you can't buy class,or tact...



i could care less about your opinion of beyonce as an artist,or new age artist in general...you hate 99 percent of them...so you'd actually have to do something not of the norm to evoke emotion from me..




at the end of the day....you've done nothing to disprove my point that beyonce puts out a good image for women in general...from little girls to young adults,to older women..as beyonce has managed to touch all of thee above...but you,and okp are blinded by retarded rationales that have nothing to do with anything other than your warped sense of reality....



and by all means..continue on....the shit is funny to me..

>you diss everyone from erykah badu,to maxwell,to
>beyonce....so you trying to get on anyone about what they
>like,or dislike is comical at best....but there is nothing new
>about that..
>
>
>beyonce was asked to go sing the song....she sang the
>song...it was not to disrespect etta james,nor has beyonce
>ever tried to disrespect etta james...it would completely
>contradict every reason why she said she wanted to portray
>etta to begin with...
>
>etta is a diva...always has been,always will be...and that's
>what lead to her over reaction to beyonce doing that...it was
>completely classless,and tacky...but you,and your minions
>supporting that doesn't shock me at all...
>
>
>
>and if someone who paid tribute to beyonce some 40 years from
>now in a movie,and was asked to sing one of her songs at an
>innaguaration i can almost guarantee you she wouldn't be
>mad,or show her ass the way etta did.....but you can't buy
>class,or tact...
>
>
>
>i could care less about your opinion of beyonce as an
>artist,or new age artist in general...you hate 99 percent of
>them...so you'd actually have to do something not of the norm
>to evoke emotion from me..
>
>
>









Badu is a good live act and what else? her best songs were between 97-01 and then what? her pen and her went out of ink. should have been a Marlena Shaw type of act with a bit of a millie Jackson flair if she had that kind of game.

Lauyren Hill ran her off the road period and it wasn't even close. L Boogie was that last chick that showed me something. she had it all. blew it.



Maxwell I dug his first album and Unplug. then he got all arty and watery. dude pulled a Terrence Trent D'arby and nearly sunk. he still keeps a hit and is talented and a good live performer, he just needs more punch on his albums. if he wants to be the Male Sade then he needs some stronger material and then take his time. dude is talented, however he lost that early edge he had.i still say "Fortunate" was his last real high as a song. dude is tough live and can sing. however he ain't good enough to be taken off no 10 years. he doesn't have that kind of catelog IMO.




>
>at the end of the day....you've done nothing to disprove my
>point that beyonce puts out a good image for women in
>general...from little girls to young adults,to older women..as
>beyonce has managed to touch all of thee above...but you,and
>okp are blinded by retarded rationales that have nothing to do
>with anything other than your warped sense of reality....
>
>
>
>and by all means..continue on....the shit is funny to me..




Badu is a Good Live act and what else? there is a reason why folks stoppped checking for her albums. she hasn't had a hit in a long time. she hit her peak early.

she also knows she couldn't hang with Lauyren Hill. L Boogie was the last chick who ran R&B. now Mary J Bliege got the game by default,but L Boogie was the truth.

Maxwell is good live and can sing has talent, but the cat turned into Terrence Trent D'arby/Al B Sure until FOrtunate brought him back. dude got talent,but he ain't got the kind of catelog to be taken off no 10 years.

Beyonce didn't show Etta James no respect. she never asked her to perform that song.

Beyonce ain't no class act. ask Latoya,and them chicks who were in DC that Yonce and Her daddy ran out of there?


Beyonce ain't done nothing but present a materilistic persona. put a ring on it, ring the alarm, to the left to the left,

she ain't no angela Davis or Maya Angelou.

oh buddy i can't wait in 10-15 years time when she starts crying about the business,etc... i'm gonna laugh.

her music and this fake superstar treatment she gets is comedy.

the folks who speak out against her like myself have been brought up on the real. Beyonce is a like a Cold Big Mac Burger when you get caught up in drive thru and you can't get it warm again. just a greasy bag with no heat and no substance and you need a microwave to cook the artifical elements away.

nigga you stay making ridiculous comments about acts of this generation....first you said sade can't sing...now badu is nothing but a good live act?...hasn't made a good song since 01?...i swear people don't actually read what you type...worldwide underground was more like a jam session still nice music though...and new amerykah wasn't good writing?...ok...


how has lauryn run anyone from anywhere when lauryn hasn't done shit in over 10 years...and i love lauryn,but once again you're showing why you are the king of revisionist history....i bet when lauryn was actually in her prime you were fronting on her too...


So embrya,and blacksummersnight weren't strong material?...really?...pretty wings/bad habits wasn't strong,or at the very least as strong as soldier of love since you're drawing the sade comparison?....come on sun you gotta cut the bullshit...and clearly he must have the material,talent,and ability to take off ten years,and still come back,and smash as he sold 400k his first week out after ten years,and won 2 grammies for rnb album of the year,and rnb vocal performance for pretty wings...there is absolutely NOTHING backing up your claims about any of these artist..


How did she not show etta respect?...she sang at last probably because it was a fitting song for the event...first black president EVER in the united states of america...what..she should have written etta a ten page letter requesting to sing the song after she just portrayed her in a movie,and had a reasonably good relationship with her through that entire time....why would she think it would be a problem to sing that song?..why would anyone think that?....you're just reaching much like most people in this thread..


yeah the dc break up was all beyonce and her evil ways fault....she's the big bad witch of the east...lol..fuck outta here..


yeah,because put a ring on it ain't promoting marriage..it's promoting go out there,and buy a girl a big fat diamond ring for nothing..and irreplaceable isn't about standing up for yourself,and not taking shit off a man,and saying i'm better without you....you're doing nothing but helping me make my point...i appreciate that maxx...




you've again done nothing to disprove that she's a good image for women....the only thing you did was become the pied piper for the beyonce haters who will agree with anything negative said about her..whether it's true,or not....

which proves my ORIGINAL POINT....

>nigga you stay making ridiculous comments about acts of this
>generation....first you said sade can't sing...now badu is
>nothing but a good live act?...hasn't made a good song since
>01?...i swear people don't actually read what you
>type...worldwide underground was more like a jam session still
>nice music though...and new amerykah wasn't good
>writing?...ok...
>
>
>how has lauryn run anyone from anywhere when lauryn hasn't
>done shit in over 10 years...and i love lauryn,but once again
>you're showing why you are the king of revisionist
>history....i bet when lauryn was actually in her prime you
>were fronting on her too...
>
>
>So embrya,and blacksummersnight weren't strong
>material?...really?...pretty wings/bad habits wasn't strong,or
>at the very least as strong as soldier of love since you're
>drawing the sade comparison?....come on sun you gotta cut the
>bullshit...and clearly he must have the material,talent,and
>ability to take off ten years,and still come back,and smash as
>he sold 400k his first week out after ten years,and won 2
>grammies for rnb album of the year,and rnb vocal performance
>for pretty wings...there is absolutely NOTHING backing up your
>claims about any of these artist..
>
>
>How did she not show etta respect?...she sang at last probably
>because it was a fitting song for the event...first black
>president EVER in the united states of america...what..she
>should have written etta a ten page letter requesting to sing
>the song after she just portrayed her in a movie,and had a
>reasonably good relationship with her through that entire
>time....why would she think it would be a problem to sing that
>song?..why would anyone think that?....you're just reaching
>much like most people in this thread..
>
>
>yeah the dc break up was all beyonce and her evil ways
>fault....she's the big bad witch of the east...lol..fuck outta
>here..
>
>
>yeah,because put a ring on it ain't promoting marriage..it's
>promoting go out there,and buy a girl a big fat diamond ring
>for nothing..and irreplaceable isn't about standing up for
>yourself,and not taking shit off a man,and saying i'm better
>without you....you're doing nothing but helping me make my
>point...i appreciate that maxx...
>





lets see I never front on Lauyren Hill she had the hits and also she could sing, and perform. put it like this if Wyclef and Pras perform the Fugee songs without Lauyren ain't nobody gonna stick around.

Badu is a Jam Based act. can perform live and made a album that everybody and there great granny was feeling.


>
>
>
>you've again done nothing to disprove that she's a good image
>for women....the only thing you did was become the pied piper
>for the beyonce haters who will agree with anything negative
>said about her..whether it's true,or not....
>
>which proves my ORIGINAL POINT....


Badu is a Jam Based Act not a particular great or good singer. but worth checking out live. she hit her peak and prime early on in her career.

Sade ain't much of a singer but a smart stylist and also a on point live act. got solid songs and material that holds up.


I dug Lauyren Hill then and she had it. nobody cared about Wyclef and Pras. Clef had one big album and that is it. L Boogie moved me. i always dug her until she joked with that unplug nightmare.


Maxwell is a talented artist, however he ain't put out nothing since his debut album that has knocked me out aside from "fortunate". Prety wing is cute and while he sold alot out of the box it's not like he is pushing toward 2 million copies or 3 million copies.

He could have been soemthing if he hadn't taken so much time off and not gotten scared. got talent,but not worth taken no 10 years off.

you ain't making no points at all either.

Beyonce knows that Etta James is the voice of that song. like i said when Crayola is singing her song 20-30 years from now and Beyonce is eating a fat back and KC's Masterpiece Bar B Que sandmich she will be yelling at the screen. just you watch.

FYI nobody walks around going my my my Beyonce is a deep writer. in fact those corny songs were originally written by folks you wouldn't even believe. nobody cares about her corny trite songs.

you up here acting like she has put out a Respect or a Young, gifted and Black.

tell you what, BET is bringing back Comic view and for more jokes there is a extra bonus disc which you can get paid for.

somebody on Planet Earth defending Beyonce's so called writing ability. man that is so funny I'm taking the sugar out of my kool aid so i don't waste the extra sweet taste of the kool aid on the carpet.

>Maxwell is a talented artist, however he ain't put out nothing
>since his debut album that has knocked me out aside from
>"fortunate". Prety wing is cute and while he sold alot out of
>the box it's not like he is pushing toward 2 million copies or
>3 million copies.
>


lmao...what a shock..a song written by your boy is the last song by maxwell that knocked you out....you get a big NEGRO PLEASE for even repeating that shit...i meant to get on you earlier about that..



>
>Beyonce knows that Etta James is the voice of that song. like
>i said when Crayola is singing her song 20-30 years from now
>and Beyonce is eating a fat back and KC's Masterpiece Bar B
>Que sandmich she will be yelling at the screen. just you
>watch.


ROFLMAOOOOO...ok..now THAT was funny....can't even front..


>FYI nobody walks around going my my my Beyonce is a deep
>writer. in fact those corny songs were originally written by
>folks you wouldn't even believe. nobody cares about her corny
>trite songs.
>
>you up here acting like she has put out a Respect or a Young,
>gifted and Black.
>
>tell you what, BET is bringing back Comic view and for more
>jokes there is a extra bonus disc which you can get paid for.
>
>somebody on Planet Earth defending Beyonce's so called writing
>ability. man that is so funny I'm taking the sugar out of my
>kool aid so i don't waste the extra sweet taste of the kool
>aid on the carpet.
>



i said nothing about beyonce being a deep writer..i said she writes self empowering songs for women...which she does....

>>Maxwell is a talented artist, however he ain't put out
>nothing
>>since his debut album that has knocked me out aside from
>>"fortunate". Prety wing is cute and while he sold alot out
>of
>>the box it's not like he is pushing toward 2 million copies
>or
>>3 million copies.
>>
>
>
>lmao...what a shock..a song written by your boy is the last
>song by maxwell that knocked you out....you get a big NEGRO
>PLEASE for even repeating that shit...i meant to get on you
>earlier about that..
>
>
>
>>
>>Beyonce knows that Etta James is the voice of that song.
>like
>>i said when Crayola is singing her song 20-30 years from now
>>and Beyonce is eating a fat back and KC's Masterpiece Bar B
>>Que sandmich she will be yelling at the screen. just you
>>watch.
>
>
>ROFLMAOOOOO...ok..now THAT was funny....can't even front..
>
>
>>FYI nobody walks around going my my my Beyonce is a deep
>>writer. in fact those corny songs were originally written by
>>folks you wouldn't even believe. nobody cares about her
>corny
>>trite songs.
>>
>>you up here acting like she has put out a Respect or a
>Young,
>>gifted and Black.
>>
>>tell you what, BET is bringing back Comic view and for more
>>jokes there is a extra bonus disc which you can get paid
>for.
>>
>>somebody on Planet Earth defending Beyonce's so called
>writing
>>ability. man that is so funny I'm taking the sugar out of my
>>kool aid so i don't waste the extra sweet taste of the kool
>>aid on the carpet.
>>
>
>
>
>i said nothing about beyonce being a deep writer..i said she
>writes self empowering songs for women...which she does....


oh so Maxwell has better songs since fortunate? do tell? he could have dropped Pretty wing 6-8 years back and it wasn't gonna have anymore impact. talented cat,however he is blowing a sure thing by taken so much time away.

self empowering where? if i was a Boy, ring the alarm?? Me myself and I? does she write them or does Sasha Fierce write them? i gotta ask since her alter ego gets the best of her or the most out of her??

more Women that i know get more empowering stuff out of Mary j Blige. Beyonce is seen as a Powerpuff girl to Mary's Pam Grier.

>oh so Maxwell has better songs since fortunate?

I know you love Fortunate cause of the R connection Maxxx and even though I've softened on that song it's still not one of my ten favorite Maxwell tracks. There's still something about an artist writing and producing their own shit that's more appealing to me. Stuff like Lifetime and Bad Habits move me much more ... especially with an artist like Maxwell.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

>somebody on Planet Earth defending Beyonce's so called writing
>ability. man that is so funny I'm taking the sugar out of my
>kool aid so i don't waste the extra sweet taste of the kool
>aid on the carpet.
>

>folks don't have no respect and understanding when Beyonce
>gets in her 60's and let somebody name Crayola get up there
>and perform "Crazy in Love" for that era President I bet she
>will act differently.
>

how in thee hell can a man decide what women see as a good influence?

>how in thee hell can a man decide what women see as a good
>influence?

i gave my opinion on whether she *is* a good influence, all things considered. i have a right to my opinion. i'll never see the world through female eyes obviously, that doesn't mean i can't care how you experience the world.

not yours. lol @ deciding if she is or is not empowering to women. male music listeners tend to hate females that call them on their sh*t. from yonce to toni braxton. if a woman isnt begging for your love then yall hate her. if she's downtrodden & pleading yall love her.

>lol @ deciding if she is or is not empowering to
>women.

laugh all you want, i'll stick to my opinion and express it freely.


>male music listeners tend to hate females that call
>them on their sh*t.

i *love* females that do that.


>if a woman
>isnt begging for your love then yall hate her.

avatar


>if she's
>downtrodden & pleading yall love her.

like who? you're swinging wildly and missing, miss.

>laugh all you want, i'll stick to my opinion and express it
>freely.
>

ur opinion is a MALE's opinion & not a FEMALE fact. at the end of the day its the way that yonce makes US feel in the end not how ANY man feels. period.

>
>>male music listeners tend to hate females that call
>>them on their sh*t.
>
>i *love* females that do that.
>
>
>>if a woman
>>isnt begging for your love then yall hate her.
>
>avatar
>
>
>>if she's
>>downtrodden & pleading yall love her.
>
>like who? you're swinging wildly and missing, miss.


like ur avatar

>ur opinion is a MALE's opinion & not a FEMALE fact.

why are you yelling at me? what are you even saying that i haven't already?


>at the
>end of the day its the way that yonce makes US feel in the end
>not how ANY man feels. period.

i'm not saying she isn't *also* empowering, but she is materialistic, shallow, self-objectifying, among other things, and i have a right to my opinion that the bad outweighs the good about her as an influence on other women, especially impressionable young girls. i defer to your expertise on *being* a woman, and i don't knock whatever positivity you get out of her, but i still have my opinion.



>>>if she's
>>>downtrodden & pleading yall love her.
>>
>>like who? you're swinging wildly and missing, miss.
>
>
>like ur avatar

you think bjork is "downtrodden & pleading"? FOH. you're not even thinking straight at this point.

>
>why are you yelling at me? what are you even saying that i
>haven't already?
>

im HARDLY yelling. lol @ more patriarchy. a woman uses caps & exclamation marks to add emphasis & she's yelling.



>
>i'm not saying she isn't *also* empowering, but she is
>materialistic,

mj wasnt?


shallow,

men aren't? they way men judge women's looks in songs could fill up the grand canyon.

self-objectifying,

what? cuz she professes SELF love she's objectifying herself? if she isnt wearing a burqua she's objectifying herself? if she walks around w/makeup on she's objectifying herself? bjork wore a dress with a FRIGGING SWAN on it to the oscars & beyonce is making a mockery? foh

among other things,
>and i have a right to my opinion that the bad outweighs the
>good about her as an influence on other women, especially
>impressionable young girls.

what does beyonce do that is so bad?

i defer to your expertise on
>*being* a woman, and i don't knock whatever positivity you get
>out of her, but i still have my opinion.

u can have ur opinion even if its dripping with paternalism.


>>>
>>>like who? you're swinging wildly and missing, miss.
>>
>>
>>like ur avatar
>
>you think bjork is "downtrodden & pleading"? FOH. you're not
>even thinking straight at this point.

>im HARDLY yelling. lol @ more patriarchy. a woman uses caps
>& exclamation marks to add emphasis & she's yelling.

in text, caps read like yelling. that's what makes the poster WARGOD's posts so funny yet off-putting, and he's male.


>>i'm not saying she isn't *also* empowering, but she is
>>materialistic,
>
>mj wasnt?

nowhere close to B.


>shallow,
>
>men aren't?

men are, but many men, famous and unknown alike, are also poor role models.


>they way men judge women's looks in songs could
>fill up the grand canyon.

i agree.


>self-objectifying,
>
>what? cuz she professes SELF love she's objectifying herself?
> if she isnt wearing a burqua she's objectifying herself? if
>she walks around w/makeup on she's objectifying herself?
>bjork wore a dress with a FRIGGING SWAN on it to the oscars &
>beyonce is making a mockery? foh

you have a right to your views, and surely they're different as a woman than my opinion as a man, but i see beyonce as constantly self-objectifying, and that's putting it politely. even if she's empowering herself and making herself feel good by making herself the *object* of desire in others' hearts, that's still *objectifying* herself. i wouldn't call it a mockery, it's fairly standard stuff as famous young women in the entertainment biz go, but i think it sends the wrong message to an extent about what women should do and be like to get men to like them. i think it reinforces age-old gender stereotypes that we as a society should move past (but not in the "stick your hand in your man's face" way, that's just classless).


>what does beyonce do that is so bad?

it's her lyrics, typical performance and video and photo shoot attire, and overly "suggestive" dance moves that i feel outweigh the positive aspects. this isn't even considering the factors the average person knows and cares nothing about like usurping credits and other strongarm tactics that her father is as much if not way more to blame for doing nor am i even referring to the obviously inferior music she's made compared to MJ, which i've said elsewhere is a comparison that shouldn't even be made because it serves no one.

well it isn't so much an issue with her as much as it is the creation of her ... she's like the stepford pop star. Her parents remind me so much of those child pageant type parents you see on TV. It's either suppressed or removed her personality to the point there's very little about her that seems real or original.

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

...someone removed the battery from beyonce's neck? i feel bad for her because, like MJ, she had no childhood, it's been entertainment boot camp for probably as long as she can remember. i do blame the parents, although she's quoted elsewhere in this thread as wanting to be an "icon" so that shows she's doing what she wants in life, and certainly at her age she can do what she pleases. if i had a daughter though i wouldn't want her to take after beyonce, on multiple levels. a drive for success is a good thing, but not like that.

>>im HARDLY yelling. lol @ more patriarchy. a woman uses
>caps
>>& exclamation marks to add emphasis & she's yelling.
>
>in text, caps read like yelling. that's what makes the poster
>WARGOD's posts so funny yet off-putting, and he's male.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2343547&mode=full#2343558

> not yours. lol @ deciding if she is or is not empowering to
>women. male music listeners tend to hate females that call
>them on their sh*t. from yonce to toni braxton. if a woman
>isnt begging for your love then yall hate her. if she's
>downtrodden & pleading yall love her.


I have to co-sign this even though it is a generalization.

Beyonce really does need to put some clothes back on though. The fact that she is flinging her ass and coochie in errybody's face cheapens her. I think she needs to take some time off, maybe have a baby or two and come back with a more mature look and sound. It seems like they keep pushing her because they fear if she takes some time off her career will be over... She needs to surprise people and show more depth, versatility and range. She needs timeless songs. That is what is missing from her catalog. I think she has the potential to be an icon but she is selling herself short with the showgirl, stripper, burlesque act. Those pop-lite featherweight tunes she has a tendency to choose don't help either. It's just too manufactured and contrived.

It really does say alot that Sade can take 10 years off and come back to the world stage with the same signature sound and be overwhelmingly embraced as if she never left. People are happy to see Sade again, which is testament to the body of work she has recorded and her history of strong live performance. It's not about the fame and media saturation with Sade but the substance. That's what people love about her. Beyonce needs to find her inner beauty because beauty will always triumph over sexy!

Sade = beauty

Beyonce = sexy

There is a glaring difference between the two and personally, I prefer to choose the Sade style of female empowerment over Beyonce's.

I certainly wouldn't call a michael jackson impersonation album an excellent album...how could it be?...


and his last album was extra ok...shit is exaggerated as fuck....



but all that is beyond the point...the main point of me saying that is that timberlake is no more talented than beyonce..yet on okp he's gased as an artist...hilarious to me..

he is entertaining Live I'll give him that. however as a solo artist he ain't even the top White Male Act. Eminem got him beat in that regard.

timberfake Saturday Night Live skits and song spoofs are more entertaining to me than his actual songs. what does that say about him as a artist?

since he likes jacking Black folks on the music tip the first album was MJ inspired the last one was Prince and then I guess the next one is gonna be him jacking Teddy RIley and R.Kelly??

musically on a whole Timberfake ain't much better than Dino. timberfake ain't seeing no Jon B neither on the cool white dude tip of music making, however he has the big brass behind his wheels.

didn't she kind of "invite" herself to be a part of obama's inauguration?

and didn't she also say she wants to be considered an icon? what humble person says that?
being an icon is not something you can drum up for yourself by speaking it - that's for history and the fans to decide

from my understanding the first lady is a big fan...and how exactly would she invite herself to begin with?...how does that work?


as far as the icon thing goes...here is what she said..which i would call more determination,as opposed to not being humble...but i guess we all see what we want to see..



She’s been quoted in the past as saying there’s a time limit on being a pop star. ‘Being a pop star, yes,’ she responds. ‘Being a legend, an icon, absolutely not. And, at this point, that’s what I’m trying to do. I’m over being a pop star. I don’t wanna be a hot girl. I wanna be iconic. And I feel like I’ve accomplished a lot. I feel like I’m highly respected, which is more important than any award or any amount of records. And I feel like there comes a point when being a pop star is not enough.’

>didn't she kind of "invite" herself to be a part of obama's
>inauguration?
>
>and didn't she also say she wants to be considered an icon?
>what humble person says that?
>being an icon is not something you can drum up for yourself by
>speaking it - that's for history and the fans to decide

>from my understanding the first lady is a big fan...and how
>exactly would she invite herself to begin with?...how does
>that work?
>

she didnt literally invite herself of course, but she threw herself in the conversation either shortly before or after obama was elected - to me it seemed as if she was pleading for attention to try & insert herself into a historical moment to add bricks to her legacy

>as far as the icon thing goes...here is what she said..which i
>would call more determination,as opposed to not being
>humble...but i guess we all see what we want to see..
>
>
>
>She’s been quoted in the past as saying there’s a time limit
>on being a pop star. ‘Being a pop star, yes,’ she responds.
>‘Being a legend, an icon, absolutely not. And, at this point,
>that’s what I’m trying to do. I’m over being a pop star. I
>don’t wanna be a hot girl. I wanna be iconic. And I feel like
>I’ve accomplished a lot. I feel like I’m highly respected,
>which is more important than any award or any amount of
>records. And I feel like there comes a point when being a pop
>star is not enough.’
>

the statement "I wanna be iconic" says enough for me

foh w/humility

>
>even more interesting is how people will PRAISE justin
>timberlake,but shit on beyonce....gotta love okp...

yea, Beyonce is popular,
but she isn't (and can never) be as popular as MJ.
no celebrity nowadays can be that popular because. . .


the world was smaller in the 80's and 90's. people all pretty much did the same things. . .

thursday nights, everybody watched the cosby show.

if a blockbuster movie came out, EVERYBODY saw it.
(example: every single kid in your class saw Batman when it came out in 1989. compare that movie to Avatar, which was one of the highest grossing movies ever. and there is still a shit load of people at your job that haven't seen it and don't care to see it.)


in the 80's, people looked forward to a janet album WEEKS before the release date.

and EVERYBODY was interested in Michael Jackson.

you see, back in the late 80's early 90's. . .we all had shared experiences. we all did the same things because we had fewer things competing for our attention. there just wasn't that much stuff to do. so the things that came out got EVERYBODY's attention.




but the world is more fragmented now.
so beyonce is competing with all kinds of shit that just wasn't there back them.
beyonce's competing with xbox.
beyonce's competing with a thousand channels on direct tv.
beyonce's competing with the internet.
plus we can hear her album before it's even released or even finished.
also we see beyonce every single day on CNN and E! and 24 hour news channels.

a celebrity today can't have the mystery that MJ had about him.



in short-- nobody can be what MJ was to so many people
because celebrities just aren't that damn important anymore...

the world is too fragmented.
So MJ wins.





and besides that--



Artisticly-- she's never done anything close to touching "off the wall."



Commercially-- she's never done anything close to touching "thriller."



As a dancer-- when compared to MJ? lol



and to be honest--
Beyonce is talented but she doesn't seem magical
or supernatural.

MJ had people passing out at the sight of him.
i just don't see that kind of hystaria surrounding beyonce.
it's not her fault.

she's probably as big a star as you can find these days.







but she is not the star that MJ was in his prime.
there's just no comparrison.

never thought about things that way as it relates to pop superstardom

which has me wondering, is living in a more 'fragmented' world as you put it, a good or bad thing? or both? there's a wider variety of art, culture, activities, etc. to experience, and we can get access to it a lot faster and more often with the net and all

but at the same time, texting, tweeting, etc. make me sometimes miss phone and face to face convo

on the one hand, you have more access to information
more access to music,
more access to everything.

in terms of finding music,
this is a good thing.

then again. . . chances are. . .
the music you find, you won't be able to discuss it with anybody.

take this message board, for instance.
most of us are really up on our music.
that being said, maybe 2 percent of the messageboard knows about the shit we discover.

disco dj may discover the latest and greatest funk band ever.
but if you are busy learning about a newly unearth coltrane session, you'd never hear about it.

it sort of can make the world a lonlier place i guess.
but it also means there are no longer any gatekeepers.
everybody is into different things.
so new possibliities open up.

there are no gatekeepers determining what gets out,
what get's heard,
and by whom.


i think this has applications in your real life.
the world is so diverse and big now,
nobody can really monitor or keep track of how you're living your life,
except for you. . .

we may be able to build something completely new.




and like a poster above me said. . .
obama was an mj like phenomenon.
we may not have mj's level of success in music again,
but it will appear in other mediums.

perhaps even in mediums that haven't been conceived of yet.

the future
is open.

it's true. . the idea of impact is not the same anymore because there is so much
variety out there in terms of entertainment. everyone can be a star now on reality
tv. everyone can put their music on the internet for free. the whole idea of pop
stardom just isn't the same. even though B is widely popular, you must be interested
to go to her. if you're not interested (like myself) she's not on the radar. 20, 30
years ago it wasn't like that. certain icons were apart of the cultural lexicon whether
you liked them or not. there was a shared context. now people can absorb themselves
in a million different ways. i know young girls who love Beyonce, they are passionate
about her and all, but they're in their own world. when Michael was around everyone
knew the songs. not just the image of the man, but the songs themselves. it
crossed over generations.

and musically she is uneducated.

makes music

makes films

models

clothing line

magazine covers

won a bunch of awards


with all she has going for her she doesn't have that kind of "IT"

it's got nothing to do with choices,etc...... sade took a decade off and went gold ok and she sells out places and doesn't change a thing.


for the last time on the female side

Whitney was the closes thing to a female version of MJ and in her prime Whitney was Reggie Jackson to Beyonce's Bucky Dent.

Janet from the moves and right sound had a minor role.

Madonna had some songs and marketing.


beyonce ain't done nothing memorable with a song yet.

timberfake is overrated as well.

problem with MJ wannabes is that they never understand the man's low key approach. he understood melody and harmony .


beyonce can sing,however she oversings and screams alot of the time.

J hud did more in one year than yonce has done in 10. she came in and conquered. beyonce is like some puppet playing dress up.

everyone who works with her real musician are always blowed away by how good her knolwedge of music is just like folks were blowed away by mj's musical knowledge.

and J hud ain't fuckin with yonce her first album did not really make a bang like dangerously in love did.

yonce is just like mariah carey makes alot of silly corny songs.

folks get paid to lie. yonce jacks tracks and they are some of the worst lyrics known to man.

horrible songwriter.

the j5 motown audition tape alone runs yonce and that horseweave off the kentucky derby track. she doesn't have anything musically to bring to the table that MJ had.

the only MJ that beyonce musically is close to is Marlon Jackson.


J hud had a courtesy holiday inn sounding breakfast for two sounding album, however she got the awards and did things up in a big way and how long as matthew knowles been pushing for beyonce to get a oscar for some over the top song?

she can get 12 pack oscar meyers hot dogs at the local safeway she ain't winning a legit oscar.

if beyonce was ashy, gap toothed, cross eyed slew footed,knocked knee and looked like tracy chapman then how much attention would she be getting?

she can sing but she oversings

has dime a dozen beat generated tracks with no completion insight.

she pulls the mariah, alicia keys,mary j bliege card of un-original songs as well.

>the j5 motown audition tape alone runs yonce and that
>horseweave off the kentucky derby track.

>if beyonce was ashy, gap toothed, cross eyed slew
>footed,knocked knee and looked like tracy chapman then how
>much attention would she be getting?

This the funniest shit I've read in a minute

I see your hatred for beyonce is running real strong, but be real with yourself, if that's possible when it comes to musical opinions

JHud outshined B in Dreamgirls. cool. not a revelation. but, regardless of your, or my, opinions on B's talents (or lack thereof) or anything else concerning her career, you cannot dispute facts

she's a worldwide pop superstar. no matter what JHud does (I think in the long run, she'll have a very successful, but different career, than B) it'll be nearly impossible for her to reach B's level of popularity and influence

but, for the heck of it, I'll compare the vocals. JHud's one-track, full-throttle-all-the-time singin aint touchin' B's dynamics, range, control and agility. let me see JHud stay on key and not need an oxygen tank when singing and dancin' simultaneously like B does

J Hud got it right out of the gate. got the industry awards plus hte oscar and set herself for a two fold career. no she ain't in Beyonce's league in terms of the money being spent on her and getting slghtly better songs, however when put side by side on a song J Hud got that Oscar which Beyonce been chasing for years with wack film after wack film and over blown songs.

then factor in J Hud showed a little bit of acting range and she can do the film thing on the side. album wise J Hud is gonna get the Angie Stone treatment i'm afraid to say, however if she looked like Beyonce and with what she has already accomplished then she would be a true Icon.


J Hud won out of the gate. Beyonce been doing the film game for a decade and she got a room full of Razzies linned up.

ain't no oscars in there.

bottom line Beyonce doesn't stack up against the past baddest of the Badd Black Female Superstars IMO. nobody was gonna step in Diana ROss's toes or Whitney Houston's..etc....


what you laugh at isn't that funny when you consider Beyonce been in movies since 99 and no oscar is coming.

J Hud got it right out of the gate. got the industry awards plus hte oscar and set herself for a two fold career. no she ain't in Beyonce's league in terms of the money being spent on her and getting slghtly better songs, however when put side by side on a song J Hud got that Oscar which Beyonce been chasing for years with wack film after wack film and over blown songs.

then factor in J Hud showed a little bit of acting range and she can do the film thing on the side. album wise J Hud is gonna get the Angie Stone treatment i'm afraid to say, however if she looked like Beyonce and with what she has already accomplished then she would be a true Icon.


J Hud won out of the gate. Beyonce been doing the film game for a decade and she got a room full of Razzies linned up.

ain't no oscars in there.

bottom line Beyonce doesn't stack up against the past baddest of the Badd Black Female Superstars IMO. nobody was gonna step in Diana ROss's toes or Whitney Houston's..etc....


what you laugh at isn't that funny when you consider Beyonce been in movies since 99 and no oscar is coming.

>but, for the heck of it, I'll compare the vocals. JHud's
>one-track, full-throttle-all-the-time singin aint touchin' B's
>dynamics, range, control and agility. let me see JHud stay on
>key and not need an oxygen tank when singing and dancin'
>simultaneously like B does

i think this is the first time someone's ever made a case for beyonce's vocal "dynamics, range, control and agility" and i've actually agreed. wow at it taking a comparison with j hud for that to happen. r&b is crazy.

she oversings from note 1 of every song....it's TOTALLy annoying.

n/m

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

this is one of the topics where ?uest never comes off well, so this is one of the few times i don't mind that he doesn't converse on #thatsite any more.

nevermind lol

and he's hitting points that needed to be addressed in this post.


******
DVS and tREBLEFREE: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com
Mark de Clive-Lowe presents...Rahel - Hope: http://mashibeats.bandcamp.com/
Floating Points Ensemble feat Fatima - Mind: http://www.zshare.net/audio/724547131a82c251/

Beyonce is a huge entertainer,has overly involved parents, and appeared in bad movies, but until she can make *me* like her music she's not the new MJ.

And that Lady Gaga video where Beyonce and her are out-whoring the Lady Marmalade remake in vulgarity takes her out of the running for a while.

Next someone will be posting why the Monique Talk Show is replacing Donahue in the annals of history.

but this piece suggests he might not be the brightest theorist

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++last man standing takes a seat+++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

he also said "Seeing Sounds" sounded like Pharrell really had "something to prove."

he also said that Cudi was going to have more staying power than Drake.

he also co-signed Northern State.


Quest is in my trinity of most respected contemporary musicians/musical historians, but he human too, y'all. lol.

>he also said "Seeing Sounds" sounded like Pharrell really had
>"something to prove."
>
>he also said that Cudi was going to have more staying power
>than Drake.
>
>he also co-signed Northern State.
>
>
>Quest is in my trinity of most respected contemporary
>musicians/musical historians, but he human too, y'all. lol.


________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃

Heads Up:
Prince "The Gold Experience" Track #12
Avy - http://vanguard.avanturb.com

nm

i'm saying people SHOULDN'T take them so seriously.

n/m

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

Mike is Mike.

It's a shame that we live in such a mainstream society where we HAVE to draw comparisons from a person who has reached cataclysmic levels of greatness and success to another performer who's had a household name for 10 years.


With all due respect ?uest, kill the hyperbolic statements/State Of The Unions and let her stand on her own two and be who she is and let Mike rest.


I'm sick of this shit.







"I keep pretending/with memories never ending." © Michael Jackson



R.I.P.

they did the Multi Media thing and did it far better.

folks need to remember the history before jumping on her wagon.looking good don't give you no pass.

you ain't never gonna hear me say oh Tyra Banks or Veronica Webb were the New Jayne Kennedy Overton. they weren't seeing Jane at all. another topic.

bottom line it is a Insult for MJ and His legacy to be compared to a two bit tacky music turkey who is more closer with some more talent and charisma and personality to Peebles than Diana And WHitney.

then again Peebles did co write Babyface's "Whip appeal" and Beyonce ain't got half a legit song credit let alone a full one.


good energy entertainer with corny music.

also she did have the nerve to talk some smack about the jacksons back when. i read a interview where she talked some smack about MJ post thriller. what cracks me up some of these turkeys want to talk about MJ post thriller and what they forget dude had already put in 15 years by the time thriller had blow up.

He was still considered a "Black Thang" until thriller sold like a cell phone.

the problem that myself and true old School MJ Music Heads have with any comparrison to MJ especially this one, is that said Person Beyonce doesn't have half or a quarter of the songs that MJ had to merit such a comparrison.


only Female Black Artist that can kinda say they been on MJ's Level is Whitney Houston. she did everything 5 times better than Beyonce.

if Whitney had have had Beyonce's thighs back in the day, then Bobby and His Gumby wouldn't have had a chance.

Whitney had everything period. did 3 straight films, soundtracks, modeling, and range that was scary.

you just don't even utter other people in the same sentence and nobody in my lifetime is seeing Michael Joe Jackson. nobody has changed the course of being a Artist has this Man. Great Albums, Songs, Concert Performances,etc.. he was a walking trendsetter from head to toe.

He wasn't some video star turned blow up superstar because in America you had to have the songs to being a Negro. being safe and non threatening with a greasy Jeri Curl and a soft speaking voice ain't gonna help you sell no 40 pus million albums. truth is the thriller video was that video that made you look twice. Billie Jean was cool and low budget concept but it worked. Beat it was just a slamming song and the gang members were a add on, but it was the song and the merging of R&B/Pop coming together.

the real Video Era of MJ was during the Bad Album and again folks dug the music and bought it.

nobody. i repeat nobody. you had to be there to understand the great wall of Music divide then.

you had to see first hand the musical segeragation and also the Isolation that was in place.

alot of these acts today tweet or talk about how they gonna do this or that. all MJ did was drop Off the wall, thriller,etc.. tour and inspire folks from head to toe.

he beat you with music.

bottom line yeah folks don't sell as much as they use to, however the bottom line if you give them something that is on point it will sell.

with all the Multi Media Beyonce has she should be able to see a Diana Ross,Whitney Houston,Aretha Franklin,Chaka Khan,Gladys Knight, however she ain't at seeing that table in terms of Artistic expression. she sells alot of records and then again so does Alicia Keys.

that doesn't equal a MJ.

to put this into perpspective Beyonce been out now 12 plus years, and she ain't made a Destiny/Triumph type of album let alone a Off the wall and Thriller.

the trip out thing she is the only major chick on Sony and she still can't cash in fully.

b has no signature, iconic dance move

an iconic weave/wig maybe

she hasn't totally changed any aspect of the industry, as mj did with the thriller video

she has no thriller-caliber album - well, nobody has since then - closest thing (which, still, is not close) is confessions

imo there can be no heir to mj's throne - he made the chair & took it with him when he left

not buying the argument that leaving DC to go dolo was an obstacle - from my recollection, everybody was expecting her to make that move - granted there was some hate when they made the quick lineup change, but it wasnt like critics and fans tried to blackball her as a solo artist

In terms of raw songwriting/production/composition, no way in hell.

Beyonce has nothing on Oprah when it comes to worldwide fame and global power.

thank you.

Bill Cosby, Denzel Washington, Stevie Wonder, are all saying Beyonce who? as far as Black Celeb goes.

For the record, Maxx I agree with damn near all of your points in this thread.

Of course Oprah has more money and power than Yonce, Asoyini, but to the average 14 year old girl she doesn't exist. They view Oprah as someone more for their mother's generation.

And Bill Cosby and Denzel? C'mon, son (c) Edward Loverdale IV.

Again, my point is that Beyonce really is the closest thing to MJ that this generation has in terms of overall ubiquity and true crossover success in all racial/social demographics. ?uest is right on that point and I agree.

But putting her against MJ in terms of flat out songwriting and musicianship? *title of Ol' Dirty Bastard's 2nd album*

dude could still drop a album and go gold with far less singles released or videos.

if you are talking in the younger youth market well a certain Alicia Keys is given Bee some Heat.


AK out sells her, has a hit with her Husband out now and does quite well.

AK is Our Black Angelina Jolie in some ways and I ain't going there, also Oprah has had AK on the front couch since day one practically.

>Of course Oprah has more money and power than Yonce, Asoyini,
>but to the average 14 year old girl she doesn't exist. They
>view Oprah as someone more for their mother's generation.

I disagree that 14 year old girls don't know that Oprah exists. Oprah is a true media ICON and everyone knows she exists...which is why she has the worldwide power and fame to begin with. There isn't a realm of entertainment that Oprah hasn't had her hand in and whatever she is involved in flourishes! They may view her as from their momma's generation but that doesn't mean they don't know who she is and recognize her tremendous power and influence. Some little girls in South Africa would also like to have a word with you. lol


>Again, my point is that Beyonce really is the closest thing to
>MJ that this generation has in terms of overall ubiquity and
>true crossover success in all racial/social demographics.
>?uest is right on that point and I agree.

Alicia Keys would also like a word with you!

Quest is bugging! lol Somebody tell Jay-Z to watch his woman cuz Quest tryna hit that! lol (just kidding of course)

Beyonce is no way near MJ and never will be but I appreciate what she brings to the table though. She has one of the best live shows in the business plus she is a hard worker... but she really needs more timeless material to work with. Her music is way to trendy and "for the moment".

>But putting her against MJ in terms of flat out songwriting
>and musicianship? *title of Ol' Dirty Bastard's 2nd album*

Basically! lol

on the scene right now. that doesn't make her the next MJ. b/c it's not like MJ was the only black musician who was ever the most famous black musician on the scene. before he had that particular title some other black musician had it. and since he had it others have had it.

there's no way Yonce is the next MJ. on any level.

Quest is high. stop copping pleas for him.

n/m

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

Don't forget that scandal/outrageousness played a part in keeping Michael in the public eye. Beyonce's personal life is pretty vanilla by anyone's standards.

MJ has Masters and the Beatles catelog, Beyonce jacks co writing and Production credits and can't even spell catelog.

nobody is out to run Beyonce off the road. if she had a real career like MJ then.... nevermind

Back around 2004, they were about even in popularity.

is that Usher albums have out sold her and yet he was used as a extra in one of her videos.

coming back with wack songs hurt Usher. he hit his prime and peak then.

to IMO at least on the award shows and at MJ's Memorial service Usher has impressed me more vocally live than Beyonce. Usher"Gone too Soon">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Beyonce "I can't Help it"

Unlike Beyonce, Usher stumbled out the gate. How many people remember his 1st album?

who got a 2nd chance. Usher been around so long which some folks tend to forget. we are talking almost a 20 year career.

Usher makes a interesting behind the music considering how that first album went tuna can lite

and how he had to overcome rejection with countless albums turned down by the Arista brass.

Sales do matter, however you gotta challenge your audience and go beyond. Usher has come up short. he has talent just depends on way too many gimmicks.

like, did beyonce do that or something?

Beyonce is a phenomenal talent, however, she is light years behind MJ in writing, composing, delivery, producing, performance, theory, dance, star power, etc. Go and find the audio with him explaining the process of him "creating" music. He was exposed directly to Motown, Quincy, Temperton, Gamble and Huff, etc.; and he made it a point to learn everything that he could from them. Plus, MJ did it for all the right reasons (Love). There's something missing with the present artists that are fed to the public. It's something that MJ, Prince, Rick James, James Brown, Stevie, Donny, and even Anita Baker had. Beyonce is cool, but we need to stop all of this "next this, next that" talk. MJ was making black and white people faint so much at these concerts, that you would've thought he was the second coming of Christ. Beyonce is a great talent (vocal and dance) and wonderful performer, but as an artist she's just that.

MJ made folks in wheel chairs faint. nothing like what he did live then or now.

the only time Beyonce done made somebody faint is when she slipped on them Heels and nearly fell over her weave.

but she bounced right on up.


yeah Acts back in the day knew what it meant to be a SuperStar. you had to have songs, you had to have edge and you had to bring it Live.

today Beyonce is treated like she is a superstar back in the day she would be lucky to be an Opening warm act for willie Tyler and Lester.

Did he just say OPENING for Willie Tyler and Lester?!?! BWAAAAAHAAAHAAA

This post was dead, it got resurrected and Max killed it off again.

>There's something missing with the present
>artists that are fed to the public.

Especially when Beyonce says shit like "I wanna be iconic"
and "I work hard now because I don't wanna work after 35"

straight laughable.

This thread is classic!

LMAO

freal.

much props to my man.


******
DVS and tREBLEFREE: http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com
Mark de Clive-Lowe presents...Rahel - Hope: http://mashibeats.bandcamp.com/
Floating Points Ensemble feat Fatima - Mind: http://www.zshare.net/audio/724547131a82c251/

He is.

And that's because you can't compare a "Happy Meal" to a "home cook meal".


again someone let Quest know Jay not @ Def Jam anymore

Dude knows what the hell he's talking about. Much respect.

agreed. good read

he basically said we have to make SOMEBODY the heir to mj, so lets choose beyonce because she fits the bill on some basic qualifications that we can check on a list. lol. a lot of over thinking going on. he stated his case very well, however the old adage remains true: you can put lipstick o a pig, but it's still a pig.

before anyone freaks out, no, i'm not calling beyonce's mediocre ass a pig. i'm not calling quest a pig. i'm calling the very idea that yonce is mikes "heir" a pig. actually, the idea that there is an heir is a pig. THERE IS NO HEIR!! the line is done! over! finished!

as it is beyonce holds a title that has no current value, she reigns because there are no options. who else is there? she also reigns because of a serious lowering of standards in a generation of lazy, simpleton standard novelty ring tones. yonce ain't even mariahs heir, or whitneys heir. i mean.. halo? replaceable? if i were a boy? these songs are so mundane, cliche and void of imagination i can't even pencil her in as the next toni braxton. how the fuck is she the next MIKE? a once in a lifetime artist?

mike's gone. his absence does not dictate that one must be crowned to fill his role. quest here is nothing more then another overzealous talking head with an itchy trigger finger. beyonce's success is nothing more then the savvy marketing of a good (read: not great) singer while keeping a finger on the pulse of what's "hot" in top 40 radio. there is nothing about her work, nothing in it's sound, substance, or structure that screams "Legacy". mike's work is meticulously crafted inter-generational brilliance with a sonic personality all it's own, not the cookie cutter factory marketing that permeates beyonce's merely serviceable, hardly sensational catalog.

quest is simply trying his hand as a hipster taste maker targeting the pop culture choice that goes against the grain of his perceived leanings in the world of music. it worked when he did it with jay, because it was an honest statement that lacked any of the contrivance and pretense of this hilarious nonsense. yonce ain't even got deborah cox pipes for crying out loud. and you wanna call her the heir to michael jackson?

Post over.

>he basically said we have to make SOMEBODY the heir to mj,


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

>mike's gone. his absence does not dictate that one must be crowned to fill his role.

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

but he's actually right, in this instance.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

i agree with every damn word of that.

>
>as it is beyonce holds a title that has no current value, she
>reigns because there are no options. who else is there? she
>also reigns because of a serious lowering of standards in a
>generation of lazy, simpleton standard novelty ring tones.
>yonce ain't even mariahs heir, or whitneys heir. i mean..
>halo? replaceable? if i were a boy? these songs are so
>mundane, cliche and void of imagination i can't even pencil
>her in as the next toni braxton. how the fuck is she the next
>MIKE? a once in a lifetime artist?

It would be if he called Rihanna the next Mike.
But in this case, it makes complete sense.

>It would be if he called Rihanna the next Mike.
>But in this case, it makes complete sense.

i loved the first single and expected good things but the album turned out to be awful. he's just trying real hard to find an angle here.

I've read what I like to think are many classic maxxx post but this one takes the cake!

mistermaxxx08 is on the money!

My God, brotha, you amazed me with your words and the way you go about breaking it all down everything. You truly have a way with words and your one of the main reasons I still post and check out this site from time to time. You always speak nothing but the truth with just the right amount of humor which goes hand in hand. Great posts, maxxx08.

Peace and Blessings.

Well put!

she doesnt have enough mystique to be mj....& it's all because she doesnt take off long enough in between albums to create the aura that she should have in order to have this throne

Haven't people gotten it by now? .... There is no next MJ... dude is flat out irreplaceable. For sure I would have thought 15 understood this... and coming with B as the choice????? Come on ... let's see if she can be the next Dianna Ross or something but MJ's name shouldn't even been brought into the same conversation.

Very disappointed with this shit right here


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

that is Quest.

he's this wrong.

and i agree...there will be no next MJ. he was unique. just like he wasn't the next ___. there wasn't another act like him before he came along. yeah, he was inspired by others, but he wasn't the next __. he wasn't the next James Brown. he wasn't the next Elvis. he wasn't the next Beatles. he was his own thing.

yeah looking at it again I guess he did say that ... wow

you know there's a reason they retire numbers in sports ... you know there can never be another #23 in a Bulls uniform or a #16 or #80 on the 49ers ... Well the King of Pop number is retired... Let B and them make their own mark and let MJ's greatness and title rest in peace.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

she was just on twitter and thought she was doing us a favor posting that for us even though ?uest has posted his thoughts on beyonce being the heir to MJ before. that's why i said 83 should stick to twitter. we could've avoided all of this.

and the "@" threw me off

I was just having a hard time dude would say something like that in the first place.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

hence the unnecessary @nameconvention


>I was just having a hard time dude would say something like
>that in the first place.

you mean ?uest? he's literally said these exact same sentiments before. this is an retelling, i guess for whoever he was debating on twitter.

I mean she's in the convo with like 8-10 other artists right now ... it's crazy talk no matter which way you cut it.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

>I mean she's in the convo with like 8-10 other artists right
>now ... it's crazy talk no matter which way you cut it.

...when MJ was outselling his contemporaries, would you say he was also "dominating" them (whatever you mean by the term, i assume more than just commercially)? i think that word might be a bit too strong of a statement considering who were huge pop stars in the early and mid '80s, even if MJ was at the top of the pile. i do defer to you though as i was too young at the time to have any sense of this sort of thing.

and those "others" have gone on to cement their own legendary status

making it even more impressive was the fact the talent pool was much deeper in MJs time ... shit like I was just telling MME off the board Beyonce ain't even at someone like Phyllis Hyman's talent level ... She'd just be a better looking Cheryl Lynn back in the day... hardly a threat to someone like MJ.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

>and those "others" have gone on to cement their own legendary
>status
>
>making it even more impressive was the fact the talent pool
>was much deeper in MJs time ... shit like I was just telling
>MME off the board Beyonce ain't even at someone like Phyllis
>Hyman's talent level ... She'd just be a better looking Cheryl
>Lynn back in the day... hardly a threat to someone like MJ.

yeah, i have to agree there again. it just makes the comparison all the more nonsensical. ultimately, it's actually unfair to beyonce. i agree with whoever said beyonce is the first beyonce. comparing her to MJ is doing her a disservice (as well as disgracing MJ, even though it's an abstract comparison). just look at this whole thread.

>yeah, i have to agree there again. it just makes the
>comparison all the more nonsensical. ultimately, it's actually
>unfair to beyonce. i agree with whoever said beyonce is the
>first beyonce.

She's following a template that people like Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin & Whitney Houston helped create... I have nothing against B and even like and play some of her songs ... but there's nothing original enough about her to say she's the first anything. Hell she's a knock off of a knock off (Mariah) when you get right down to it. She's a manufactured pop star ... and it shows.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

>She's following a template that people like Diana Ross, Aretha
>Franklin & Whitney Houston helped create... I have nothing
>against B and even like and play some of her songs ... but
>there's nothing original enough about her to say she's the
>first anything. Hell she's a knock off of a knock off (Mariah)
>when you get right down to it. She's a manufactured pop star
>... and it shows.

she was manufactured and is following a template to an extent, but she's also crossed over into areas of commerce, entertainment, and pop culture that these women haven't, which is not to say they couldn't (have) if given the opportunity. this doesn't make beyonce "better" or even "bigger," instead she (more so than her music) is just unique enough to appreciate on her own merits rather than dismiss as a clone of someone else, which she isn't.

>she was manufactured and is following a template to an extent,
>but she's also crossed over into areas of commerce,
>entertainment, and pop culture that these women haven't,

She's been over exposed which is something I think many past stars tried to stay clear of. They have marketed her like a one hit wonder looking to max out instead of someone that expects to have a 20-30 year career. She's lost the ability to seems special or mysterious ... and I think after talent that's the biggest reason she can never been on MJ's level.

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

in a talent/artistry to visibility ratio, i think beyonce is the most overexposed woman alive, no clothing optional pun intended. i'm not saying the degree to which she's penetrated our lives is an objectively "good" or "bad" thing, just a fact to consider in a comparison to those great woman singers you mentioned and even MJ, but she still hasn't reached that level of saturation he had.


>She's been over exposed which is something I think many past
>stars tried to stay clear of.

that's what's interesting about her, no level of exposure is too much for her, she craves it all. i find that so hard to identify with as it's the complete opposite to my personality, which is why i find myself at odds with her and critiquing her career path, all the while ultimately respecting her and liking some of her music. maybe one day she'll see things differently, or maybe not, but certainly she can't sustain this level of fame forever.


>They have marketed her like a
>one hit wonder looking to max out instead of someone that
>expects to have a 20-30 year career.

i agree, and it's in the music, too. her songs age very poorly IMO. she's very much an in and of the moment singer, but she wants her moment to last forever and shine brighter than everyone else's moment.


>She's lost the ability to
>seems special or mysterious

was there ever a mystery to beyonce except maybe her stamina to keep her level of superstardom going and continuing to rise?


>.. and I think after talent
>that's the biggest reason she can never been on MJ's level.

i agree, she's nowhere near the special artist MJ was, which is why this comparison just doesn't fly even if both worked hard to get where they got.

some of y'all kill me up in here, talkin' as if B's success was created in some Willy Wonka factory and she didnt put in an OUNCE of work to get where she is

to me it sounds like you're mad, for whatever reason, that she's reached, and been able to stay at, a certain level - and she's still climbing. "pop culture is watered down", "the overall talent level now is thin", etc etc. - all broken-record excuses to keep you in denial about her actual talents as a singer & performer

how much of her songs she actually writes? I don't know - but, really, how many of us do? she got hits, worldwide popularity, worldwide tours, dvds - whatever that counts for these days in y'alls eyes

it's like when Jay said "people sayin' they made Hov. alright, then, make another Hov." if B has no talent and her success is a market formula, then why aren't there more artists close to or at her level? there's plenty of non-talented singers out there, a lot more so than really talented ones

only points I can ride with is B is by no stretch of the imagination a good actress. I do find some of her songs shallow and silly-minded. but her material is not totally void of any substance. show me ONE chick - nah, eff that, ONE PERFORMER PERIOD who can rock like B does onstage - near flawless singin' while dancin. most artists aren't as precise, fluid and agile vocally as B while they standing still

So put the mad or hate labels back in your bag. Of course the girl works hard ... where have I said she doesn't? But working hard doesn't = creativity or originality. I just don't feel like she's on the cutter edge of either.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

>show me ONE chick - nah, eff that, ONE
>PERFORMER PERIOD who can rock like B does onstage - near
>flawless singin' while dancin. most artists aren't as precise,
>fluid and agile vocally as B while they standing still
>

Usher ... and I'm not very impressed with his body of work either. It takes more than all that to be on MJs level... it's starts with having more classic songs than fingers.


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

Ush can sing but he sounded really out of breath & barely audible at the nba allstar game performance this yr.

he's 2nd to B in the dancing while singing category but not that close imo

But they remind me of each other in that they seem to have everything but what really counts ... enough timeless songs
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

yeah He did. i mean everybody knew about dude and he was leaving folks in the dust. when he did Billie Jean on Motown 25 he had the temps, four tops, Smokey,etc,,, all circling him across the street fanning him down bowing down in his pressence.

He had Music Royality calling him Da King. Berry Gordy was in Awe.

Old Pro nailed it, the Talent Pool back then was deep like the Grand canyon.

back then it was all or nothing. you had to bring it in the studio, live and have personality and charisma,etc..

MJ brought it all and thensome.

ain't never seen anything like that before or since.

you had to be there to understand it and even then you still are blown away because it was one of those once in lifetime artistry moments.

Everyone is always obsessed with crowning someone the "heir" to the next superstar in any era of music/sports/politics. It's why every motherfucka with a guitar and vague song-writing ability was hailed as "The Next Bob Dylan." It's why any guy who could dunk and/or played somewhere Chicago was hailed as "The Next Michael Jordan." It's how our society works.

I'm not even going to argue if ?uest is right/wrong here. I have NO strong feelings about Beyonce whatsoever either way. I know little to nothing about her music. But I'm going to say this: we're going to have to be careful about holding onto to our idol's/musical hero's too much, and we're going to end up sounding like those old baseball writers, loudly proclaiming, "No! There will never be anyone better than Babe Ruth!!! Babe Ruth is the greatest of all time! Anyone who ever even hints at that is disrespecting his great legacy!!!!"

I agree that there will never be another artist like Michael Jackson, ever. Ever, ever, ever. Ever. No one will ever have an album that will sell close to as many copies as "Thriller." No one will be bigger worldwide than Michael was in 1982/83. But there may come a time when when an artist comes along that will inspire people worldwide like Michael did. Not exactly the same way, but similar. And we, who grew up loving Michael, are going to have to accept it when it happens, or we're going to look silly.

>But I'm going to say
>this: we're going to have to be careful about holding onto to
>our idol's/musical hero's too much, and we're going to end up
>sounding like those old baseball writers, loudly proclaiming,
>"No! There will never be anyone better than Babe Ruth!!! Babe
>Ruth is the greatest of all time! Anyone who ever even hints
>at that is disrespecting his great legacy!!!!"
>
>I agree that there will never be another artist like Michael
>Jackson, ever. Ever, ever, ever. Ever. No one will ever have
>an album that will sell close to as many copies as "Thriller."
>No one will be bigger worldwide than Michael was in 1982/83.
>But there may come a time when when an artist comes along that
>will inspire people worldwide like Michael did. Not exactly
>the same way, but similar. And we, who grew up loving Michael,
>are going to have to accept it when it happens, or we're going
>to look silly.

I'm as big a MJ fan as they come, and I cosign every word of this.

and that artist won't be the next MJ. they'll be the 1st ___.

this is part of the game. a dumb part.

>and that artist won't be the next MJ. they'll be the 1st
>___.

But he/she will inevitably get compared to MJ on the way up before establishing themselves as the first _____.

>this is part of the game. a dumb part.

I know it's dumb, but it's how it works. And fighting against it is like pushing against a rope.

>I'm not even going to argue if ?uest is right/wrong here. I
>have NO strong feelings about Beyonce whatsoever either way. I
>know little to nothing about her music. But I'm going to say
>this: we're going to have to be careful about holding onto to
>our idol's/musical hero's too much, and we're going to end up
>sounding like those old baseball writers, loudly proclaiming,
>"No! There will never be anyone better than Babe Ruth!!! Babe
>Ruth is the greatest of all time! Anyone who ever even hints
>at that is disrespecting his great legacy!!!!"

You'd be the first to have a fit lol

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

And I'm not saying B is Michael's heir or anything. All I'm saying is don't hold on too long/too hard.

Because the idea is they are both singers who are extremely famous ... Both Cust and Reggie are baseball players who hit home runs. Never mind the fact that in both cases that's where the comparisons stop. Comparing Beyonce to MJ is every bit as ridiculous.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

But do you at least recognize the perils of holding on too long here if someone ever comes along who is as "big" as MJ in their own way? 'Cause I'd hate to see cats coming off like "Rolling Stone" editors who can't let go of the idea of The Beatles being the greatest artists to ever record music.

That being people too quick to elevate someone to a status not deserving based on the body of work ... this happens (movies, music, sports) just as much if not more so than those dismissing something or someone because it's new. I feel like I'm a pretty fair judge when it comes to music ... I mean I catch just as much heat form older folks for what I listen to so it's not like I'm trapped in the past. But let's not act we don't have those always ready to proclaim the next goat.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

But it's just part of the game, and there's little point in getting indignant about it.

I mean, look at say the '08 Superbowl. During the build-up it was all about "Are these Patriots the greatest team ever?" (which was bullshit) and after the game it was all the hype about "Was Eli Manning's drive as great as Joe Montana's in 1989?" (which was also pure bullshit) But I wasn't gonna be mad at either, 'cause, hey, that's part of the game. Critics/writers/people talk to fill up space.

It's up to those that know better to call bullshit when a bullshit statement is made... they don't have to accept it but it they should at least hear it.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

Even when she was with Destiny's Child, I didn't think she was anything special.

She can sing, but her execution and choice of material is so run of the mill, I'm honestly shocked she's seen as a Great Artist.

Like many contemporary entertainers/athletes, she has potential and the ambition/ego to be a legend but she's (artistically) lazy.

there will never be another MJ...move on...consider it sad that beyonce is the closest thing (though I don't even believe that)

http://blog.tilos.hu/malestripshow/imagination-intheheat.jpg

If anything they would have called him the next Jackie Wilson but that wasn't even correct. Nobody had ever seen a child star bring what MJ did to the table.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

popularity and awards is one thing but as an artist, Beyonce doesn't generate any where close to the excitement/event that MJ had whenever he was on tv or any award show...and that was pre Thriller. And Beyonce has yet to make a timeless defining classic as OTW or Thriller...all her records sales notwithstanding.

Beyonce has the most over saturated brand of any artist currently which, to me, forces her on the public. MJ, on the other hand, you couldn't get enough of seeing him.

If Beyonce is viewed as the heir apparent to Michael Jackson, then that speaks more to the sad state of affairs that has become pop music/culture...and R&B music as well than it does about her as an artist.

Beyonce has gotten to the point now where she has allowed her talent to become subordinate to her sex appeal. That was another(underrated) quality about MJ as an artist is the fact that although many chicks swooned over MJ as a kid and during his musical height, MJ never really exuded, or had to had exude any type of sexual energy that has always been commonplace for most male pop/r&b artist.

you killing me softly in this thread

and she delivers something closer to her potential, and eclipses Gaga/Beyonce/whoever as clearly the greatest pop star of this era, i'd rather it be her than them

I don't think it'll happen like that..but it could

Calling an Artist the hier of another artist is far from being idealistic but damn near delusional. It can be ones opinion and if that opinion is publish towards the public doesn't make it fact. No artist can follow the same path as any other artist ast or present. We KNOW THIS! the statement made doesn't take anything from either artist.

...Sony ain't loving Beyonce THAT much!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031503862.html?hpid=moreheadlines

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-michael-jackson16-2010mar16,0,7082645.story

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/arts/music/16jackson.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704588404575124023860735864.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/Michael_jackson_bad_tour_liverpool_concert_1988.JPG/300px-Michael_jackson_bad_tour_liverpool_concert_1988.JPG


*****
RIP To The King

My friend's mixtapes. Check them out
http://sahboog.wordpress.com/downloads/

cold truth, taygravy and maxxx said the right things in this post. there CANT be an heir to MJ really. beyonces just a new black megastar. doesnt mean shes the new MJ. there is no need to crown someone a new MJ. and there cant be a new one cos the barriers/rules etc have changed so much.

she has matured into a seriously great performer though, i just think her songs arent on the same level. they were actually better in the DC days - yeah theyre catchy but theres not much to them beyond that.

http://windimoto.com/scorpeze-blog/?p=461
________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃

Heads Up:
Prince "The Gold Experience" Track #12
Avy - http://vanguard.avanturb.com

i will read this though

Good people, I want to be brief but the fact is to comprehend MJ is a huge undertaking. Though Mr. Thompson had some interesting points, his claim is poorly thought out and completely without merit.

First off, let me say that there are certain facts about Mrs. Beyonce Giselle Knowles-Carter than cannot be disputed.

A) She is talented.
B) She can sing.
C) She can dance.
D) She has star quality.
E) She is a beautiful woman.

That being said, there are definitely parallels between Mrs. Knowles and Michael Joseph Jackson:

A) They both have been entertainers since they were children
B) They are both driven to be the best in their field
C) They have reaped great success in the entertainment industry
D) They are both Virgos–thus hard workers and shy people that come alive on stage
E) They both came from groups that they inevitably outgrew
F) They both-because of growing up in the entertainment industry-have somewhat stunted social development
G) They have overbearing fathers who guided their careers.
H) They both bammas
I) They Black

…and that’s where the comparisons stop.

When Berry Gordy stood before the world at MJ’s memorial and finally said out loud what the world already knew but for numerous reasons could not bring itself to freely admit–that Michael Jackson is the greatest entertainer to ever live–NO ONE could offer an argument to the contrary…because there is no argument to the contrary.

There is a point when you are no longer great, but legendary…where you are no longer legendary, but an icon…where you are no longer an icon but the Gold Standard by which all others are measured…MJ reached that level….

MJ didnt just “change the game”, he obliterated the old game and put a new one in its place.

This may sound like hyperbole, but the facts speak for themselves.

No one has sold as many records as MJ. Period. But record sales are only a piece of this pie. Yes, Thriller had a lot of serendipity going for it, but the pieces had been put into place a long time before that…

At the age of FIVE YEARS OLD, MJ was already on a level that he relieved his older brother Jermaine of his lead singer position in the Jackson 5. Grown men refused to play on a bill with him. He was a seasoned enough entertainer that his competition in talent shows swore that he was not a child, but an adult midget (true story). A child had professional adult entertainers shook. Bear in mind, this was the 60’s, where you couldnt lipsynch, use auto-tune, or prerecorded tracks. If you didnt have the goods, you were forced to leave the stage, cute kid or not. The Jackson 5 won EVERY talent show they entered.

Another true story. At the age of THREE YEARS OLD, MJ sang Climb Ev’ry Mountain in school one day. His teacher wept.

Etta James told this story to MJ biographer J. Randy Taraborelli. She said that one night on a tour stop in the Midwest, she noticed a little boy hanging around her dressing room before showtime. She was trying to prepare for the show and the kid was distracting her. She marched up to the kid and told him to get lost. The kid scrambled away. Later, after her set, the boy appeared at her dressing room door. She asked him “What do you want, kid?” The boy replied, “Miss James, my father told me to come and apologize for bothering you earlier. I didn’t meant to, its just that you’re so good. I just want to know how you do it…” Etta had a change of heart and invited the boy in for some pointers. She remembers (in a self-congratulatory way) thinking to herself after the boy had gone, “One day, that boy is going to be the best…because he wants to learn from the best…”.

Mind you, this is going on before Motown ever knew The Jackson 5 existed. The rest, as they say, is history.

There are artists that we enjoy, and then there are artists that we FEEL. They give us pause. They make us consider things. They make us sit up and pay attention, and what they do and say stays with us long after the show is over or the record stops.

I’ve always said that you can divide entertainers into 2 categories: Artists and Acts.

Acts wants your attention and praise. They use whatever talent they may have to gain your favor. It doesnt matter to them how they do it. You pay them and clap for them and they are satisfied.

Artists also wants your attention and praise, but the difference is that an artist feels duty bound to share their gifts. They perform in service of the audience. They feel compelled to connect with their audience, to give a voice to whatever you in the audience may be thinking or feeling. At other times, an artist has something to say that they feel everyone should hear. An artist has purpose and integrity.

Michael Jackson felt duty bound to right the wrongs of the world. He wanted people to stop hurting each other and start loving each other more. It was this message of love that was the foundation of his music and performances until his last day on Earth.

Michael Jackson is an artist. At the age of 18, he pleaded with us to come together in songs like Show You The Way To Go, Living Together, Dreamer, and Strength of One Man. He continued on with a constant message.
-Man of War
-Can You Feel It
-We Are The World
-Earth Song
-They Dont Care About Us
-Beat It
-Heal The World
-Bless His Soul
-Man In The Mirror
-Keep The Faith
-On The Line (which was the theme song to the only film that I know of about the Million Man March)

if you wanna talk empowerment, he said:
“Lift your head up high and scream out to the world
I know I am someone, so let the truth unfurl
No one can hurt you now cause you know its true
Yes, I believe in me, so you believe in you
Help me sang it
Sing to the world, sing it out loud”

He wrote that when he was 21.

Lots of people write inspirational songs, mattafact there’s a whole sub-genre of music dedicated to just that, but when MJ sang people listened…people in all corners of the globe.

While it may seem that Im just retreading old shit…I remind you that we are talking about someone who is being talked about as the “next” one of this caliber, so I think its important to realize what caliber we taumbout here….

We taumbout a cat who inspired the world to stop and not only realize the plight of Africa, but help…you had kids sending in allowances, and Mr. Joe Six Pack writing a check for famine relief….These days that type of widescale philanthropy is commonplace…

We’re taumbout a cat that made grown men cry during and after his life (I’ve seen it). A person who has little children demanding that their parents buy them his music AFTER his death.

MJ changed the way Black men approached singing. How many baritones are there in R&B these days? These days a little white kid is just as likely to start singing in an R&B style than forming a rock band because of MJ.

MJ wrote songs that are part of the permanent fiber of global culture.

MJ made Fred Astaire bow down.

Even MJ’s hero, the notoriously egocentric genius and architect of modern Black music, James Brown insisted that even though MJ had learned from him that MJ was an original.

To this day, people are still trying to discover what made MJ tick.

MJ survived a scandal that would have obliterated anyone else’s career-TWICE. After 8 years of creative silence, then man announced that he was back and instantly sold out the same arena 50 times over.

This is the man we are talking about here. This is the entertainer we are talking about. This is the artist we are talking about.

And who is Questo proclaiming to be his rightful successor?

Beyonce.

Beyonce?

For all the talent, charisma, success, and work ethic that Beyonce has, let’s be really damn real.

She aint fuckin with MJ.

She may be one of the many entertainers in the mold of MJ, but the “NEXT” MJ?

How so? Because there are some similarities in their careers? That aint enough…

Let take the visual out of the equation.

let’s sit MJ’s catalogue next to Beyonce’s….that’s not even fair…

What is the criteria? Beyonce’s songwriting? Aight, let’s look at that….

on persistent suitors:
MJ – “She comes to the door/crying at my feet/Guilt shines in her eyes/as she slowly sinks in deep/You know our love couldnt last forever/persuade your way/but you aint clever/ I close the door and I say never….”

Yonce – “So what/you bought a pair a shoes/what now I guess you think I owe you/you dont have to call as much as you do/Id give em back to be through with you/so what/my mama likes you…”

on self-empowerment:
MJ – “And when you think of trust/Does it lead you home?/To a place/that you only dream of/When you’re all alone/And you can go by feel/’Stead of circumstance/But the power’s in believing/So give yourself a chance…”

Yonce – “the shoes on my feet/I bought it/the clothes I’m wearing/I bought it/the rock Im rockin/I bought it/cuz I depend on me/if I want it/the watch Im wearin/I bought it/the house I live in/I bought it/the car Im drivin/I bought it/cuz I depend on me…”

on a broken heart:
MJ – “and it doesnt seems to matter/and it doesnt seems right/cuz the will has brought no fortune/still I cry alone at night/dont you judge of my composure/cuz Im bothered everyday/and she didnt leave a letter/she just up and ran away…”

Yonce – “Now that it’s over/Stop calling me/Come pick up your clothes/Ain’t no need to front like you’re still with me/All your homies know/Even your very best friend/Tried to warn me on the low/It took me some time/But now I am strong…”

I think we can see that we’re not dealing with the same caliber of songwriter…Also let me point out, that songwriting and producing actual music is one of the things that MJ was known for (if the word “Quincy” enters your mind, go see my “In Memoriam Part 1″ blog, then rejoin us here). it is common knowledge now that if you want a track on a Yonce album you are REQUIRED to give her a writing AND production credit–whether she did any work or not. Tsk Tsk, mayne. Okay, we know that she’s written lyrics before. Schmoove. But sometimes she doesnt when the credits say otherwise. See If I Was A Boy.

But Beyonce aint twisted knob the first, or arranged a string session, or worked out chords with musicians. Mike has. Kenny Gamble told CBS in 1977 that Mike and his broze didnt need a babysitter in the studio anymore.

Vocally? *looks at the camera*. I’ve only heard B sing ONE song with any kind of believable emotion (the latter song quoted above). Yonce fans, feel free to point me in the direction of any other song by her that moves you emotionally (please say Get Me Bodied). Meanwhile, Mike made HIMSELF cry every time he sang She’s Out Of My Life. EVERY time. Its one thing to sing well, its another thing to make people feel…

Videos? Mike damn near invented the video. I challenge you to make it all the way through this:



Like I was saying…what other criteria are we judging on, Mr. Thompson?

Record sales? Popularity? The scales are not coming anywhere close to balancing with those factors on the table…MJ’s weakest selling album ran 10 million out the gate with little promotion and one video.

Dancing? Again, Fred Astaire, James Brown, and every kid that dances professionally now cites MJ as an inspiration. He created his own dance vocabulary, his moves are studied. Even K-Fed said that the greatest moment in his life was dancing for MJ. Beyonce’s choreographer left her tour to audition for This Is It. Not for a job, to audition. Yes, MJ learned from the best but in the end when you bust certain moves people know automatically who you are mimicking. Yes, Yonce had her Single Ladies moment and everyone wanted to learn the steps but the same thing happened with the Achy Breaky Heart, The Macarena, and MC Hammer’s Chinese Typewriter. Do the Single Ladies dance 10 years from now at a party if you want. People are still doing Thriller–27 years later. Let someone accurately dance like MJ and a crowd gathers…

Is Beyonce the biggest pop star in the world right now? Yes. has she been successful for a while now? Yes. But she’s hardly alone in wearing that distinction.

Lastly, let’s talk about influence. MJ has inspired millions of people to better themselves, care about others, be ecologically responsible (long before it was hip to be “green”…BTW, MJ was a vegetarian back when fast food still tasted good), be the best they can be, follow their dreams, and take pride in being different. He has personally mentored actors, athletes, emcees, choreographers, filmmakers, authors, activists, singers, musicians, entrepreneurs, doctors, etc…both young and old.

What is Yonce’s influence? Inspiring insecure women to shake their asses half naked in a room full of strangers? Who is she inspiring and what is she inspiring them to do? To wear as little clothing as possible? Throwing your man out of the house? Emotionally blackmailing him to marry you? (the less I say about Yonce’s relationship, the better) To writhe around on the floor and spread your legs? To drive around in the Pussy Wagon???

Warning: Opinion ahead.

I absolutely fucking cringe when I hear someone suggest that Yonce is a role model that young women should be emulating. In the last decade, she has gone from suggestive to risque to desperate. What would happen if she put her legs, ass, and titties away? Would we be still be having this conversation about her artistic merit? Sweet Lawd, WHEN will women learn the difference btwn taking ownership of their sexuality and exploiting themselves?

A large part of Yonce’s appeal is that she makes records out of women’s sillier fantasies.

-Kitty Kat: I’ll withhold pussy from you if you dont give me the amount of attention I want
-Irreplaceable: I’ll kick you out the crib and you wont have a word to say about it. Oh yeah, Im going to further provoke you by inviting another dude over here in the middle of a hostile situation
-Freakum Dress: Im feeling insecure about my relationship, so instead of talking to my man…Im going to the club in the sluttiest clothes I can find…that’ll teach his ass
-Single Ladies: if you dont propose to me, Im going to go out to the club make a spectacle of myself

This is some real mature shit here *sarcasm*. the list goes on…ladies, you can follow this advice if you want to and see how far it gets you…Sadly, alot of girls and grown women think that they can pull this type of shit off because they saw Beyonce do it in a video. Trust me, I’ve seen it…

What they fail to realize is that Beyonce can make up fantasies about what its like to deal with men because she’s Beyonce. She’s spent the majority of her life on stage or under the watchful eye of her dad. If there’s one parallel btwn Yonce and MJ that stands out, you can bet your ass that the lack of a social life is one of the most prevalent. Solange can get pregnant at 17, but there was no FUCKING way Matt and Tina would have let Yonce get that far out of their eyesight for that to happen…

Just for comparison, here’s some MJ fantasies: He goes around fighting evil, protecting the world, and saving people from getting hurt…oh yeah, he turned into a zombie once…

Aint no way that Yonce, in her current incarnation, should be held up as an example…You can say what you want abt MJ and his various controversies, but when have you seen him advocating acting a motherfuckin fool?

Lemme wrap this shit up, B.

Beyonce is successful performer. Lots of people love her. MJ is a global cultural institution. A musical genius. One of the greatest vocalists of our time. One of the best dancers in history. An innovator in the field of music. A trailblazer that changed how the music industry works. A humanitarian. An inspiration. A hero. He left the world and broke the damn internet…

He is simply, the greatest entertainer ever to live. (c) Berry Gordy

Beyonce got a long way to go before she can event think about climbing that mountain.

Aint no next. There was only one.

Sorry, Ahmir.




"I keep pretending/with memories never ending." © Michael Jackson



R.I.P.

>let’s sit MJ’s catalogue next to Beyonce’s….that’s not even
>fair…
>
>What is the criteria? Beyonce’s songwriting? Aight, let’s look
>at that….
>
>on persistent suitors:
>MJ – “She comes to the door/crying at my feet/Guilt shines in
>her eyes/as she slowly sinks in deep/You know our love couldnt
>last forever/persuade your way/but you aint clever/ I close
>the door and I say never….”
>
>Yonce – “So what/you bought a pair a shoes/what now I guess
>you think I owe you/you dont have to call as much as you do/Id
>give em back to be through with you/so what/my mama likes
>you…”
>
>on self-empowerment:
>MJ – “And when you think of trust/Does it lead you home?/To a
>place/that you only dream of/When you’re all alone/And you can
>go by feel/’Stead of circumstance/But the power’s in
>believing/So give yourself a chance…”
>
>Yonce – “the shoes on my feet/I bought it/the clothes I’m
>wearing/I bought it/the rock Im rockin/I bought it/cuz I
>depend on me/if I want it/the watch Im wearin/I bought it/the
>house I live in/I bought it/the car Im drivin/I bought it/cuz
>I depend on me…”
>
>on a broken heart:
>MJ – “and it doesnt seems to matter/and it doesnt seems
>right/cuz the will has brought no fortune/still I cry alone at
>night/dont you judge of my composure/cuz Im bothered
>everyday/and she didnt leave a letter/she just up and ran
>away…”
>
>Yonce – “Now that it’s over/Stop calling me/Come pick up your
>clothes/Ain’t no need to front like you’re still with me/All
>your homies know/Even your very best friend/Tried to warn me
>on the low/It took me some time/But now I am strong…”

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃

Heads Up:
Prince "The Gold Experience" Track #12
Avy - http://vanguard.avanturb.com

"I keep pretending/with memories never ending." © Michael Jackson



R.I.P.

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- Tha Soul Show Vol 2

.

all that surface silliness, lack of emotional depth and materialism etc etc, thats just a product of the time. not saying that excuses it, but comparing their lyrics is a bit too easy. and tbh, i bet in 10 years crazy in love will still be getting played in clubs as a 'classic' and people will be doing the dance from the video (and i dont even like that song). in fact, the same way i dunno if MJ changing the popular black male singing voice is necessarily a good thing, i bet plenty of what beyonce is doing right now - even though i think shes just more of an incredibly popular wave riding artist than a trend setting one - will be emulated by later generations of female artists. its inevitable.

*shrug*

yep that sums it up.

*****
RIP To The King

My friend's mixtapes. Check them out
http://sahboog.wordpress.com/downloads/

Beyonce is just not on that level. . i don't see her music standing the test of time.

...

People say never say never, but up until this point, no one in those respective fields has surpassed those ultimate icons..

Michael Jackson is in that category of rarefied air that will forever stand...

Yeah you have people that duplicate the patterns of their predecessors successfully, (we've had Maxwell, D'angelo..ect but they ain't no Marvin or Al Green)

People who've even achieved what their predecessor didn't (Obama made it to where Martin Luther King unfortunately couldn't...but MLK will always be THAT one, no matter WHAT Obama does)..

30 years after his death, we still ain't found the next Bruce Lee. It don't matter how many movies Jackie Chan been in, or how good Jet Li is...

So I mean, there are figures that will NEVER be replaced, duplicated or replicated ever again..

Just because Beyonce is one of the biggest artist NOW, don't mean anything..because 10 years from now, whoever the biggest artist THEN will be compared to MJ too..

We'll be STILL looking for he next MJ 20 years from now..

Just like we STILL looking for the next Ali (well actually we just stopped after 40 some odd years and realized, it aint gonna happen..)

she's NOT the new MJ, here's why:

There is nothing groundbreaking about her. She's pretty, can hold a note and WORKED to become the stage powerhouse she is today. Look back at clips and tell me if you SAW in her the Beyonce we see today. NOPE. With MJ you KNEW it was always something else around the corner or he was about to truly ZONE OUT.

At best she's had the RIGHT people behind her and there was nothing for the last 10 yrs to hold a candle to the total package of her. Monica, Brandy(fill in the rest) can't dance, don't have the manager she has OR corporate America on their side like Beyonce.

B'Day was set to be a flop but she SHOVED that album down our throats with touring, that's why it was successful. No one was feeling Deja Vu like Crazy in Love or Ring the Alarm. You do have to admire that she won't fail.

I almost feel stupid sitting here trying to find reasons why she's not when it's obvious. MJ was a cultural and pop icon/phenomenon.

It hurts me that you would say he release Thriller at the right time. Quest come on. No one had a record out like that THEN or NOW. MJ is the REASON the record business survived after disco. Yes he BROKE many doors down but he had all the makings to do so. He was BEYOND talented, had a track record of solid releases AND Off The Wall was his artistic stance. Also since you want to bring race in this and it is a valid point you still can't DENY the man just was simple MAGIC.

He STILL holds the record for most Grammys in a night for a male with Santana(it took Carlos almost 20 yrs to tie with MJ)(8), so obviously someone said F his blackness and he did something spectacular on Thriller and no it wasn't a social experiment. He, Quincy, and Rod set out to do what they did and HIT it out the ballpark.

Thriller is his B'day in terms of adult solo albums and you MEAN to tell me this broad is on his level???? She hasn't grown artistically, visually, or lyrically.

When MJ died all of us who came up on his music got the stamp of adulthood on June 25, 2009. The WORLD was HURT. When she dies I don't think that's going to hold up true for her. Sorry just my gut feeling.

Come on man, you gotta come better than that. I could go on and on why but I'll stop here.

RIP