are you saying nirvana was the culmination or progression of punk?

if we're looking at grunge music as begat from post-hardcore, itself begat from hardcore, itself begat from punk... you see where i'm going with this?... then i guess the early to mid '90s hip-hop this board champions would be hip-hop's answer to punk. popular but still a continuation of the original ideals and retaining credibility. i dunno, it's a rough analogy and not one that's needed in the belief that hip-hop was a homolog of punk.


>but i think grime really was like the hip hop punk. it wass
>fast/frenetic, ultra raw/angry, not pretty at all, didnt have
>much to do with ideas of 'good taste', so in the same way old
>rock fans said punk artists were talentless, couldnt sing,
>couldnt play etc, loads of hip hop artists and fans thought
>the same about grime artists.

i agree (and please don't spoil this by bringing up the immediately accepted and quickly generic sounds of swizz beatz), but i still think for this to work as hip-hop's answer to punk there had to be an american form of grime. otherwise it's just another niche movement, and you guys are spectacular at creating music that never catches on anywhere else.