or grunge?

but i think grime really was like the hip hop punk. it wass fast/frenetic, ultra raw/angry, not pretty at all, didnt have much to do with ideas of 'good taste', so in the same way old rock fans said punk artists were talentless, couldnt sing, couldnt play etc, loads of hip hop artists and fans thought the same about grime artists. though it never said it was opposed to bloated hip hop that was around at the time (in truth it was influenced by a lot of hip hop from then) how punk artists said they hated prog and other 'big' artists of the time, grime was way rawer and hungrier than mainstream hip hop of the time.

eg -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxK2n-K2LLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DHjMbyENS4