>>even if by cross over you mean a huge commercial
>"crossover"
>>(which isn't what i meant), there was the mall punk of the
>>'80s, which was punk *influenced*, as was new wave.
>
>What was the mall-punk of the 80's? I've never even heard that
>term.

like the go go's, the bangles, etc., and influencing them, the runaways. you can quibble over the term if you want, but you know the music i'm talking aobut.


>Anyway, I'm referring to hardcore, the US post-punk
>movements etc.

ok, but i wasn't, at least not post-punk. how did we even get on this tangent anyway? there was no american counterpart to grime. i'm waiting for you or anyone else to correct me on that. there was american punk rock, whether it came first, at the same time, or immediately after british punk rock. thus i can't justify grime being hip-hop's answer to punk or version of a punk movement, especially over the idea that hip-hop itself was the '70s and '80s black (w/ some latinos and whites) inner city youth "punk"-like answer to a void that existed in music and culture.