>even if by cross over you mean a huge commercial "crossover"
>(which isn't what i meant), there was the mall punk of the
>'80s, which was punk *influenced*, as was new wave.

What was the mall-punk of the 80's? I've never even heard that term. Anyway, I'm referring to hardcore, the US post-punk movements etc. which was strictly indie more-or-less and was sustained by fanzines, local shows, indie- or even self-pressed records that suffered from bad distribution etc. The alternative american rock that got attention above grass-roots level in the 80's was stuff like R.E.M. and numerous forgotten bands like the Plimsouls, Green On Red, Dream Syndicate etc., bands who's connection to punk was pretty small IMO, it was more rooted in the mid-70's US power-pop boom...