Something needs to come along and reduce this shit back to its basest elements.

No matter how many bodies these cats catch or coke they sell on record, this music has long since lost its ability to shock or scare even lily white 55-year-old investment bankers (half of whom probably have a TI joint on their ipood workout playlist).

At this point we need something to come along that threatens the established guardians of the genre. Not a new-jack to come up and challenge Jay-Z to a battle but some new jacks whose very existence makes folks young and fully realize how irrelevant these Rap Dinosaurs have become.

It needs to be something extreme enough that it brings the 'AND THEY CLAIM THAT IT'S MUSIC!'(c)PE/FearIntro crowd back out of the woodwork.

Something that potentially embarrasses the fence-straddling-old-heads-still-tryin-to-be-down into either getting fully on the bandwagon or hopping off for good. Material uncomfortable enough to confuse some of today's youth who aren't even old enough to remember shit like the Newsweek cover story of 1989 or the FBI Letter to NWA, when this music was actually 'threatening' for reasons beyond their favorite MCs police-blotter appearances.

Something that simplifies shit back to its rawest form like Sucker MCs in 83, Criminal Minded in 86 or even Wu-Tang's debut but not in this day-glo purposely-retro format propogated by groups like The Cool Kids.

Not in the form of some super-lyrical multi-spitting display of verbal wizardry either. That shit has gone as far as it can or needs to go.

Rap is long overdue for a watershed 'punk rock' reaction in the vein of the Stooges or Ramones first two records.

It needs to be stripped of its artifice immediately because much like rock by the early 70s, this music no longer is really anti-establishment. It actually is the establishment.

Maybe the blowback I'm hoping for won't even resemble rap music at all, I don't have any particular sound or image in mind.

I just know I'll know it when I hear it and I know it isn't here yet. I may even hate it when it comes but I'll gladly welcome its arrival because this 'fad' I grew up with has long since devolved into idol-worship and self-parody.

smh.

He is one of the main contributors of this current situation.

to 'jocking' anybody.

Jay is a great MC. That doesn't mean that what his presence has become isn't something worth rebelling against, just as The Clash did The Beatles or Iggy Pop did with Mick Jagger.

In the end as a listener you can appreciate something while also understanding its need to be destroyed.

and or half assing it so how can you appreciate that?

But I support your original point 100%

that he's one of the Key Old-Guard Figures who needs to be knocked off in a figurative sense.

I would go see dude in concert more for nostalgia purposes and the professionalism displayed than because I felt the current music he's doing is challenging me as a listener.

I'm not waiting on Jay-Z to give me something new. He does what he does and has to much vested at this point to change that.

The question is when is something new and exciting gonna come behind that? Because people stopped expecting Stevie Wonder or Paul McCartney to be at a focal point of young/hip at around the same length of time. You can respect any and all of their past works while still understanding that their contemporary irrelevance is necessary.

bed.

to utilize.

Sales are no longer a real barometer but it does need to be something that makes an impact on the public consciousness.

I more interested in what could happen from a purely musical/social perspective than in rehashing a rap-is-dead convo or discussing the carcass of modern-mainstream-music-distribution.

and I'm trying to avoid making this about Jay but at the same time he was the first name that came to mind in typing up the original post. It's more about what he represents than him at this point.

>and I'm trying to avoid making this about Jay but at the same
>time he was the first name that came to mind in typing up the
>original post. It's more about what he represents than him at
>this point.

There is no denying that he and many of his contemporaries are the "old guard" so to speak. The problem that you're addressing is that there is essentially no "new guard" yet...

But how can anyone expect the stars from 15 years ago to still carry this shit and be relevent?

Its really rare that somebody can be at the forefront of importance to his genre for multiple generations. One of the only people I can think of off top is Herbie Hancock because he drastically reivented himself multiple times. In the vast majority of cases though people either a)fall off b)become a self parody or c) become irrelevent because someone new renders them irrelevent.

The only thing I can say is that when something new comes, we probably won't see it coming.

>>and I'm trying to avoid making this about Jay but at the
>same
>>time he was the first name that came to mind in typing up
>the
>>original post. It's more about what he represents than him
>at
>>this point.
>
>There is no denying that he and many of his contemporaries are
>the "old guard" so to speak. The problem that you're
>addressing is that there is essentially no "new guard" yet...
>
>But how can anyone expect the stars from 15 years ago to still
>carry this shit and be relevent?
>
>Its really rare that somebody can be at the forefront of
>importance to his genre for multiple generations. One of the
>only people I can think of off top is Herbie Hancock because
>he drastically reivented himself multiple times. In the vast
>majority of cases though people either a)fall off b)become a
>self parody or c) become irrelevent because someone new
>renders them irrelevent.
>
True, Herbie also was lucky enough to never really become omnipresent either. Once you get to a certain level of ubiquity, your demise becomes necessary. I can't really say Herbie ever even really approached that plane.

>The only thing I can say is that when something new comes, we
>probably won't see it coming.
>
>

>There is no denying that he and many of his contemporaries are
>the "old guard" so to speak. The problem that you're
>addressing is that there is essentially no "new guard" yet...
>
>But how can anyone expect the stars from 15 years ago to still
>carry this shit and be relevent?
>


In deed, when you look at it even cats like Jay Z, Mos Def, Nas et al have been out recording for over 15 years (or nearly that). Its like what KRS-One said on his epic "I'm Still #1" -- 15 years down the line we'll be the old school artists. Therefore at this point there a generation of listeners that look upon the aforementioned in the same way some may look upon KRS, Dougie Fresh, BDK, Rakim et al of another era before their time.



>which makes Its really rare that somebody can be at the forefront of
>importance to his genre for multiple generations.
>One of the only people I can think of off top is Herbie Hancock because he drastically reivented himself multiple times. In the vast
>majority of cases though people either a)fall off b)become a
>self parody or c) become irrelevent because someone new
>renders them irrelevent.

True indeed basically the point as I take it is no matter the genre at some point the audience turns over to the point where your music doesn't speak to them any more on their level. Rarely can an artist transend and maintain relavence with a generation of listeners other than those who sparked his/her fame.


From a hip hop frame of reference KRS is the only one I know that truly can still rock a crowd like he did in his "heyday". And he's done it across 3 decades (80's, 90's, 2000's). Although his albums in the last 2-3 years haven't quite had the same punch as some of his early 2000's work.

>>There is no denying that he and many of his contemporaries
>are
>>the "old guard" so to speak. The problem that you're
>>addressing is that there is essentially no "new guard"
>yet...
>>
>>But how can anyone expect the stars from 15 years ago to
>still
>>carry this shit and be relevent?
>>
>
>
>In deed, when you look at it even cats like Jay Z, Mos Def,
>Nas et al have been out recording for over 15 years (or nearly
>that). Its like what KRS-One said on his epic "I'm Still #1"
>-- 15 years down the line we'll be the old school artists.
>Therefore at this point there a generation of listeners that
>look upon the aforementioned in the same way some may look
>upon KRS, Dougie Fresh, BDK, Rakim et al of another era before
>their time.
>
>
>
>>which makes Its really rare that somebody can be at the
>forefront of
>>importance to his genre for multiple generations.
>>One of the only people I can think of off top is Herbie
>Hancock because he drastically reivented himself multiple
>times. In the vast
>>majority of cases though people either a)fall off b)become a
>>self parody or c) become irrelevent because someone new
>>renders them irrelevent.
>
>True indeed basically the point as I take it is no matter the
>genre at some point the audience turns over to the point where
>your music doesn't speak to them any more on their level.
>Rarely can an artist transend and maintain relavence with a
>generation of listeners other than those who sparked his/her
>fame.
>
>
>From a hip hop frame of reference KRS is the only one I know
>that truly can still rock a crowd like he did in his "heyday".
>And he's done it across 3 decades (80's, 90's, 2000's).
>Although his albums in the last 2-3 years haven't quite had
>the same punch as some of his early 2000's work.
>
>
To me KRS' albums pretty much fell off a the point he broke with Jive. The productions feel low-budget and the hooks forced. He can still body a track (That's Not Hot, My Life, I Come Back, the Ridah Freestyle) but as for full album work since that point its been spotty.

But I highly respect the fact that he stays true to himself and never reduces himself to a nostalgia act. He really will be ripping a microphone until he's mothafuckin sixty.

on the bill and the difference between them in terms of the on-stage and off-stage given back to them by the crowd was night and day.


And they both from the same era. In the immortal words of Guru, "If you ain't got it, you ain't got it."

>on the bill and the difference between them in terms of the
>on-stage and off-stage given back to them by the crowd was
>night and day.
>
>
>And they both from the same era. In the immortal words of
>Guru, "If you ain't got it, you ain't got it."
>
>
yeah, like I had mentioned awhile ago in a post about Slick Rick & Dougie.....those guys are basically a traveling museum exhibit, right down to the Kangols and Ballys.

The example Bombastic used for 70s rock is perfect though. The Beatles and The Stones first came out and smashed the establishment, but in doing so eventually became the establishment. that doesn't make them worse, it just means that the next generation is going to come along and want to smash them. And they will. It always happens.

In other words, I have an affinity for alot of McCarntey's 80s 90s and 00s material. I'll argue with anybody that alot of it is still musically more adventerous than most of what's out there. That being said, none of that music was VITAL. It had ceased being cutting edge long ago. It had been, essentially, shattered when the new breed came out and destroyed it.

So its very easy to recognize that Jay-Z is starting to move into that category. Its not easy to recognize right now because we're witnessing it in real time, but when history looks back, they will see that Jay continued to put out quality (if slightly diminished)material and retain his fanbase, but that he was no longer the top dog (because nobody in the history of music has remained the top dog in his respective genre for long). I predict his trajectory will take him on the same path as most of the huge stars from the classic rock era: similar to Dylan, the Stones, Springsteen, Stevie; he will continue to release critically well-received material that his fans will like but will be largely ignored by the next generation of audience and will still sell out tours and whatnot everytime he comes around.

co-sine

>Something needs to come along and reduce this shit back to
>its basest elements.
>
>No matter how many bodies these cats catch or coke they sell
>on record, this music has long since lost its ability to shock
>or scare even lily white 55-year-old investment bankers (half
>of whom probably have a TI joint on their ipood workout
>playlist).
>
>At this point we need something to come along that threatens
>the established guardians of the genre. Not a new-jack to come
>up and challenge Jay-Z to a battle but some new jacks whose
>very existence makes folks young and fully realize how
>irrelevant these Rap Dinosaurs have become.
>
>It needs to be something extreme enough that it brings the
>'AND THEY CLAIM THAT IT'S MUSIC!'(c)PE/FearIntro crowd back
>out of the woodwork.
>
>Something that potentially embarrasses the
>fence-straddling-old-heads-still-tryin-to-be-down into either
>getting fully on the bandwagon or hopping off for good.
>Material uncomfortable enough to confuse some of today's youth
>who aren't even old enough to remember shit like the Newsweek
>cover story of 1989 or the FBI Letter to NWA, when this music
>was actually 'threatening' for reasons beyond their favorite
>MCs police-blotter appearances.
>
>Something that simplifies shit back to its rawest form like
>Sucker MCs in 83, Criminal Minded in 86 or even Wu-Tang's
>debut but not in this day-glo purposely-retro format
>propogated by groups like The Cool Kids.
>
>Not in the form of some super-lyrical multi-spitting display
>of verbal wizardry either. That shit has gone as far as it can
>or needs to go.
>
>Rap is long overdue for a watershed 'punk rock' reaction in
>the vein of the Stooges or Ramones first two records.
>
>It needs to be stripped of its artifice immediately because
>much like rock by the early 70s, this music no longer is
>really anti-establishment. It actually is the establishment.
>
>Maybe the blowback I'm hoping for won't even resemble rap
>music at all, I don't have any particular sound or image in
>mind.
>
>I just know I'll know it when I hear it and I know it isn't
>here yet. I may even hate it when it comes but I'll gladly
>welcome its arrival because this 'fad' I grew up with has long
>since devolved into idol-worship and self-parody.
>
>


________
<- Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
AvantUrb - http://avanturb.com

Bringing this level of insight every post - http://is.gd/1i9M6

I Never...(RIP MJ) http://drop.io/inever4mj/

Shit will be overhyped on hipster-blogs worldwide and pitchfork within a couple of months and a while later, it will be so played out and tired that "noone" will give a fuck about any of the new artists except the ones that became part of the establishment...

>Shit will be overhyped on hipster-blogs worldwide and
>pitchfork within a couple of months and a while later, it will
>be so played out and tired that "noone" will give a fuck about
>any of the new artists except the ones that became part of the
>establishment...

he was of the mind of Bomb... Rap music needs a populist rebellion
but then he looks at its most recent stars, and some of them (like Jeezy, Gucci, et al) actually ARE of the "common dude" (drug/gun talk aside)

but now...what you just said makes exact sense.

can and will happen, because rap and popular music itself as currently constructed will not be able to continue in this fashion ad infinitum.

History bears that out.

This conversation goes on here weekly, if not daily. Jay-Z has too much invested to really "go in". He had his chance with the Black Album and blew it. Even on this DOA, he didn't go and call out people.

The corporate suits will not let in an MC or group that SCARES the status quo. They have too much control. They have figured out a way to make it what they want it to be and have made every single person in radio an interchangeable part. The people picking the music will not stick their neck out because they know they will come back beheaded.

So my question is, will the powers that be let this happen? There are too many people with money invested in the super bullshit to kill their own enterprise.

http://djprimetime.tripod.com
http://www.myspace.com/theformularadioshow

them credit for.

This doesn't need to be a platinum artist who goes through the mainstream channels, it just needs to be a true musical movement (not this bullshit rappers call a movement plugging their vanity-label-offshoots) that builds from a ground level into a roar that can be heard above the din that ends up having a long-lasting disruptive impact.

thats the best we have gotten since 50 Cent's debut.

the kid, Soulja Boy came with his own style, beats, and business. and he really didn't give a f*ck about what people thought and laughed his way to the charts and the bank.

and everybody hated on the lil dude, from fans to rappers in general.


the rap game is begging for somebody to come take it over or at least breathe new life into it. begging.

and no, mixtape guys like Wale and Drake are NOT the answer.

we need more Soulja Boys, come with the hits and albums and the i don't give a f*ck attitude. thats rap.

everybody else conforms.

he is the closest thing, relatively speaking, to a rebel the rap game had.

as an example should say all that needs to be said about the current state of rap

if it was someone who could actually end up with a real career long-enough to be knocked off the perch themself someday rather than flame out after a hit or two.

As in, his second album bricked hard. He had no staying power.

The OP used artists like the Sex Pistols and the Stooges. Thirty or forty years later, we're still talking about those bands, even if the former lacked any real musical talent.

10 yeats from now, nobody is going to remember who Souljah Boy is.

nobody else is doing anything.

not even 1-2 years of 15 minute fame.

his shit is dance orientated/ringtone rap just like them

>the kid, Soulja Boy came with his own style, beats, and
>business. and he really didn't give a f*ck about what people
>thought and laughed his way to the charts and the bank.

No question on that point sir. Love him or hate his commerical accomplishments speak for themselves. Dude is caked up considering. He did something right.

>and no, mixtape guys like Wale and Drake are NOT the answer.
>

Reason being IMHO is they're missing some of the point it's about the stage & the you-tube video in this new era. Not about holding out for the record deal cause the major label debut aint necessarily going to get you over.


>we need more Soulja Boys, come with the hits and albums and
>the i don't give a f*ck attitude. thats rap.
>
>

Its coming, Its coming.....

but within months he became the establishment. the DIY moron beats and raps became the norm. what was punk about soulja boy was adopted by the mainstream. anyway, his singalongs aren't scaring anybody. there needs to be music with real edge that puts the fear back into most listeners and breaks up the stale monotony in hip-hop.

>but within months he became the establishment. the DIY moron
>beats and raps became the norm. what was punk about soulja boy
>was adopted by the mainstream. anyway, his singalongs aren't
>scaring anybody. there needs to be music with real edge that
>puts the fear back into most listeners and breaks up the stale
>monotony in hip-hop.

this is kinda true, Solja Boy was about as upsetting to the status quo as Right Said Fred.

http://therapup.uproxx.com/2009/07/soulja-boy-threatens-to-quit.html
How to Get the Man's Foot Outta Your Ass

Date Posted: 8:55am Subject: Soulja Boy, Tell 'Em (Why You Mad, Son) / No More Soulja Boy?
Apparently, the crackers are ok sometimes:

http://therapup.uproxx.com/2008/10/soulja-boy-salutes-the-slave-masters.html


“Oh wait! Hold up! Shout out to the slave masters! Without them we’d still be in Africa. We wouldn’t be here to get this ice and tattoos.”

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

NBA 2K9 on PSN: Nodima

His music conformed to what is popular and mainstream.

he was just doing him.
His rise to the top of the charts was what was atypical.
But the style of his music didn't grab The Doc as a "Fuck You"

.

following trends.

the music industry as a whole is totally different now than it has ever been


I was talking to my boy about this the other night - Rap is actually depressing right now when you get to thinking about it

>the music industry as a whole is totally different now than
>it has ever been
>
>
>I was talking to my boy about this the other night - Rap is
>actually depressing right now when you get to thinking about
>it

My ride is temporarily in the shop until Friday, this post was inspired by a combination of being on LA public transportation this morning reading through the latest mind-numbing issue of XXL and then reading a few pages of Lester Bangs' 'Psychotic Reactions & Carborator Dung' collection immediately after.

I'm still not sure I've fully articulated anything yet but I wanted to get it out there and see what other folks could come up with.

1. So far, my hip-hop favorite albums of 2009 have been made by artists that have been releasing albums for almost 10 years, in some cases almost 20 years. Looking over my 10 hip-hop favorite albums of 2008, I'd say about half of them were made by artists that have been around a while. And these are all albums that are genuinely dope to me, not on some "Oh, they're good during a watered down year" shit. So I personally feel no urgency that hip-hop needs the proverbial boot in the ass; it's all gravy from my personal listening experience.

2. As Buildingblock must recently said in a post (but he wasn't the first), there's a severe lack of MCs under 30 that burst onto the scene trying to shake things up. Yeah, the kids love them some Drake, and he's got skills, but he's not really making music that's radically different than anything that's already out there.

3. I don't think there's the infrastructure even around anymore for the young and up comers to burst in on some the scene with a new sound to shake things up. Fifteen to 20 years ago, a major label would take a chance on a group like Cypress Hill or Wu-Tang Clan (both groups had members who had released music before, but no established commercial success). These days, you have to create music that fits into a pre-established box before a major label shows you some money.

>1. So far, my hip-hop favorite albums of 2009 have been made
>by artists that have been releasing albums for almost 10
>years, in some cases almost 20 years. Looking over my 10
>hip-hop favorite albums of 2008, I'd say about half of them
>were made by artists that have been around a while. And these
>are all albums that are genuinely dope to me, not on some "Oh,
>they're good during a watered down year" shit. So I personally
>feel no urgency that hip-hop needs the proverbial boot in the
>ass; it's all gravy from my personal listening experience.
>
I mean I love Born Like This. My favorite rap album from 2008 is The Renaissance. I ain't saying we need to start putting out age limits on anything.

>2. As Buildingblock must recently said in a post (but he
>wasn't the first), there's a severe lack of MCs under 30 that
>burst onto the scene trying to shake things up. Yeah, the kids
>love them some Drake, and he's got skills, but he's not really
>making music that's radically different than anything that's
>already out there.
>
Holy shit is Drake boring. So is Cudi. So, to some degree, is Lupe. I like Wale's flow/energy a little bit but not enough to generate a real reaction like others have led me to in the past. This isn't some cranky-old-man steez either. I wish these rappers at least generated enough for me to hate on them if nothing else. Instead it's indifference.

>3. I don't think there's the infrastructure even around
>anymore for the young and up comers to burst in on some the
>scene with a new sound to shake things up. Fifteen to 20 years
>ago, a major label would take a chance on a group like Cypress
>Hill or Wu-Tang Clan (both groups had members who had released
>music before, but no established commercial success). These
>days, you have to create music that fits into a
>pre-established box before a major label shows you some
>money.

eh, you move enough units independently (which a genuine ground-up version of turning-the-genre-on-its-head could do) and then a major can bankroll it later.

>I mean I love Born Like This. My favorite rap album from 2008
>is The Renaissance. I ain't saying we need to start putting
>out age limits on anything.

I feel you and I know that's not what you wre implying.

>Holy shit is Drake boring. So is Cudi. So, to some degree, is
>Lupe. I like Wale's flow/energy a little bit but not enough to
>generate a real reaction like others have led me to in the
>past. This isn't some cranky-old-man steez either. I wish
>these rappers at least generated enough for me to hate on them
>if nothing else. Instead it's indifference.

Drake I can live with (but I doubt I'd buy his album or anything(. Co-sign on Cudi (and Asher Roth). And I find Lupe EXTREMELY boring. Wale can be cool, but after seeing him in concert, my opinion of him lowered a bit (not dynamic or interesting at all). I root like a mutha for dudes like MURS to blow up on a major label, but he hasn't done it and I don't know how many more shots he'll get to do it. Of the new young guns, there's only one I see that typifies the "back to basics" approach you espoused in the o.g. post, and I know you don't really like the guys music.

>eh, you move enough units independently (which a genuine
>ground-up version of turning-the-genre-on-its-head could do)
>and then a major can bankroll it later.

But, yeah, look at the guys who are blowing up independently. Like Drake, they're offer up pretty much the same fare that everyone else offers up. Like everything else, hip-hop's future is artist's catering to the niche market: finding they're established and loyal audience and catering to it.

>
>>I mean I love Born Like This. My favorite rap album from
>2008
>>is The Renaissance. I ain't saying we need to start putting
>>out age limits on anything.
>
>I feel you and I know that's not what you wre implying.
>
>>Holy shit is Drake boring. So is Cudi. So, to some degree,
>is
>>Lupe. I like Wale's flow/energy a little bit but not enough
>to
>>generate a real reaction like others have led me to in the
>>past. This isn't some cranky-old-man steez either. I wish
>>these rappers at least generated enough for me to hate on
>them
>>if nothing else. Instead it's indifference.
>
>Drake I can live with (but I doubt I'd buy his album or
>anything(. Co-sign on Cudi (and Asher Roth). And I find Lupe
>EXTREMELY boring. Wale can be cool, but after seeing him in
>concert, my opinion of him lowered a bit (not dynamic or
>interesting at all). I root like a mutha for dudes like MURS
>to blow up on a major label, but he hasn't done it and I don't
>know how many more shots he'll get to do it. Of the new young
>guns, there's only one I see that typifies the "back to
>basics" approach you espoused in the o.g. post, and I know you
>don't really like the guys music.
>
which guy is it? maybe I'm out of it but it's not occurring to me right now.

edit: wait a minute, are you talking about Blu?

>>eh, you move enough units independently (which a genuine
>>ground-up version of turning-the-genre-on-its-head could do)
>>and then a major can bankroll it later.
>
>But, yeah, look at the guys who are blowing up independently.
>Like Drake, they're offer up pretty much the same fare that
>everyone else offers up. Like everything else, hip-hop's
>future is artist's catering to the niche market: finding
>they're established and loyal audience and catering to it.

>which guy is it? maybe I'm out of it but it's not occurring to
>me right now.
>
>edit: wait a minute, are you talking about Blu?

Give the man a prize!

Okay, I'm not saying he'll be a platinum artist, but I at least like his approach to the back to basics steez. And I personally don't find him boring. I think if a label worked with him to develop the right stratedgy, he could make some noise.

I figure you disagree though... ;-)

>
>>which guy is it? maybe I'm out of it but it's not occurring
>to
>>me right now.
>>
>>edit: wait a minute, are you talking about Blu?
>
>Give the man a prize!
>
>Okay, I'm not saying he'll be a platinum artist, but I at
>least like his approach to the back to basics steez. And I
>personally don't find him boring. I think if a label worked
>with him to develop the right stratedgy, he could make some
>noise.
>
>I figure you disagree though... ;-)

LOL, a lightbulb went off right as I hit 'post message'.

He's pretty good, just not the flashpoint I'm looking for.....but I have less interest in rehashing the Below The Heavens discussion as I do a Jay/Nas debate in this thread.

>He's pretty good, just not the flashpoint I'm looking
>for.....but I have less interest in rehashing the Below The
>Heavens discussion as I do a Jay/Nas debate in this thread.

Yeah, both are about my least favorite rehashed discussions on this board. Jay-Z/Nas fighting is the absolute WORST by a mile.

Maybe it's the information age,and how nothing really has any mystery behind it anymore (which i thought was a HUGE element to michael's success)...or maybe it's the fact that so many have been let down by all types of things that seemed brash,and left field...but what i see from most people who listen to rap is a jaded feel to it...which is why so many cling to sounds from the past...or just want to hear something to dance too.....



the actual ability to knock anyone off their feet musically seems almost impossible at this point...especially with how the world seemingly has no morals,or code anymore,and will say,or do anything literally on an everyday basis,and it get's posted on the internet for everyone to consume.....so much of the freshness of hip hop in the beginning was the fact that most ignored the culture..so when it was put into music form it caught everyone off guard,because it was no longer sugar coating it,but bringing harsh realities to the light...and like everything else in this world that became a commodity


which leads to my ultimate point....is that most just won't take anything like that serious,because they will just claim it's for money,or shock value...most of the people in here agreeing with you would probably be the first ones to write an artist off who attempted this as just another shock rapper....


basically we live in a world that's moving a million miles an hour,as soon as you tackle one thing,the next day the world has moved on to something else....we no longer have movements,we just have moments..

to that just yet.

Not because of some eternal optimism but just because history pretty much necessitates it.

It might take an entirely new genre of music that has nothing to do with rap but something will come. Who of our parents who grew up on rock & soul could have anticipated the rap music we grow up with?

when it comes to culture, or lack thereof, it seems the internet has done unimaginable things to the dissemination and understanding of these things. being a part of something is simultaneously much easier and much harder than it was before. I'm not sure history necessitates anything anymore.


http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

NBA 2K9 on PSN: Nodima

>Something needs to come along and reduce this shit back to
>its basest elements.
>
>No matter how many bodies these cats catch or coke they sell
>on record, this music has long since lost its ability to shock
>or scare even lily white 55-year-old investment bankers (half
>of whom probably have a TI joint on their ipood workout
>playlist).
>
>At this point we need something to come along that threatens
>the established guardians of the genre. Not a new-jack to come
>up and challenge Jay-Z to a battle but some new jacks whose
>very existence makes folks young and fully realize how
>irrelevant these Rap Dinosaurs have become.
>
>It needs to be something extreme enough that it brings the
>'AND THEY CLAIM THAT IT'S MUSIC!'(c)PE/FearIntro crowd back
>out of the woodwork.
>
>Something that potentially embarrasses the
>fence-straddling-old-heads-still-tryin-to-be-down into either
>getting fully on the bandwagon or hopping off for good.
>Material uncomfortable enough to confuse some of today's youth
>who aren't even old enough to remember shit like the Newsweek
>cover story of 1989 or the FBI Letter to NWA, when this music
>was actually 'threatening' for reasons beyond their favorite
>MCs police-blotter appearances.
>
>Something that simplifies shit back to its rawest form like
>Sucker MCs in 83, Criminal Minded in 86 or even Wu-Tang's
>debut but not in this day-glo purposely-retro format
>propogated by groups like The Cool Kids.
>
>Not in the form of some super-lyrical multi-spitting display
>of verbal wizardry either. That shit has gone as far as it can
>or needs to go.
>
>Rap is long overdue for a watershed 'punk rock' reaction in
>the vein of the Stooges or Ramones first two records.
>
>It needs to be stripped of its artifice immediately because
>much like rock by the early 70s, this music no longer is
>really anti-establishment. It actually is the establishment.
>
>Maybe the blowback I'm hoping for won't even resemble rap
>music at all, I don't have any particular sound or image in
>mind.
>
>I just know I'll know it when I hear it and I know it isn't
>here yet. I may even hate it when it comes but I'll gladly
>welcome its arrival because this 'fad' I grew up with has long
>since devolved into idol-worship and self-parody.



elucid. like, if you can't hear the anger, aggression, paranoia, and intensity in his songs, i don't know what the fuck to tell you.

btw, i agree w/ your rant. *saves to the personal archives*

>>Something needs to come along and reduce this shit back to
>>its basest elements.
>>
>>No matter how many bodies these cats catch or coke they sell
>>on record, this music has long since lost its ability to
>shock
>>or scare even lily white 55-year-old investment bankers
>(half
>>of whom probably have a TI joint on their ipood workout
>>playlist).
>>
>>At this point we need something to come along that threatens
>>the established guardians of the genre. Not a new-jack to
>come
>>up and challenge Jay-Z to a battle but some new jacks whose
>>very existence makes folks young and fully realize how
>>irrelevant these Rap Dinosaurs have become.
>>
>>It needs to be something extreme enough that it brings the
>>'AND THEY CLAIM THAT IT'S MUSIC!'(c)PE/FearIntro crowd back
>>out of the woodwork.
>>
>>Something that potentially embarrasses the
>>fence-straddling-old-heads-still-tryin-to-be-down into
>either
>>getting fully on the bandwagon or hopping off for good.
>>Material uncomfortable enough to confuse some of today's
>youth
>>who aren't even old enough to remember shit like the
>Newsweek
>>cover story of 1989 or the FBI Letter to NWA, when this
>music
>>was actually 'threatening' for reasons beyond their favorite
>>MCs police-blotter appearances.
>>
>>Something that simplifies shit back to its rawest form like
>>Sucker MCs in 83, Criminal Minded in 86 or even Wu-Tang's
>>debut but not in this day-glo purposely-retro format
>>propogated by groups like The Cool Kids.
>>
>>Not in the form of some super-lyrical multi-spitting display
>>of verbal wizardry either. That shit has gone as far as it
>can
>>or needs to go.
>>
>>Rap is long overdue for a watershed 'punk rock' reaction in
>>the vein of the Stooges or Ramones first two records.
>>
>>It needs to be stripped of its artifice immediately because
>>much like rock by the early 70s, this music no longer is
>>really anti-establishment. It actually is the establishment.
>>
>>Maybe the blowback I'm hoping for won't even resemble rap
>>music at all, I don't have any particular sound or image in
>>mind.
>>
>>I just know I'll know it when I hear it and I know it isn't
>>here yet. I may even hate it when it comes but I'll gladly
>>welcome its arrival because this 'fad' I grew up with has
>long
>>since devolved into idol-worship and self-parody.
>
>
>
>elucid. like, if you can't hear the anger, aggression,
>paranoia, and intensity in his songs, i don't know what the
>fuck to tell you.
>
*cops to being unfamiliar with artist cited*

anything you would point to specifically?

>btw, i agree w/ your rant. *saves to the personal archives*

>anything you would point to specifically?

new song: http://freehiphopnow.blogspot.com/2009/05/my-maor-is-billionare-eulcid-explicit.html

most popular full-length project: http://www.rappersiknow.com/2007/08/23/elucid-smash-grab-mixtape/

all free.

on page 1 or 2 there's also a topic for his new video (http://vimeo.com/5321693 - "automatic writing" prod. aeon), but i haven't seen it or heard the song yet.

>>anything you would point to specifically?
>
>new song:
>http://freehiphopnow.blogspot.com/2009/05/my-maor-is-billionare-eulcid-explicit.html
>
>most popular full-length project:
>http://www.rappersiknow.com/2007/08/23/elucid-smash-grab-mixtape/
>
>all free.
>
>on page 1 or 2 there's also a topic for his new video
>(http://vimeo.com/5321693 - "automatic writing" prod. aeon),
>but i haven't seen it or heard the song yet.

if you liked Smash & Grab you should like Police & Thieves as well, its put together in the same fashion

I love that shit.

i just assumed since a new video was made that it was on the full-length that he's still working on. i didn't get a chance to check it out last night, and the title didn't ring a bell.

caveat: I'm not the best pick to say this simply b/c I lack the in depth background with both punk and hip hop. But this is the first thing that occurred to me and near as I could tell noone's brought it up yet.

>Something needs to come along and reduce this shit back to
>its basest elements.

>of whom probably have a TI joint on their ipood workout
>playlist).

lmao at 'i poo'd'


>Rap is long overdue for a watershed 'punk rock' reaction in
>the vein of the Stooges or Ramones first two records.

to take the comparison seriously, what did punk do? The way I see it, it took away the increasing emphasis on instrumental wizardry, all the proggy and arena influences, and back on fun, solid pop songs played fast and loud.

Then: what would be the hip hop equivalent of three chord pop songs played loud & fuzzy?

I don't know, but my first thought is that it would involve a return to loops & big crunchy beats. A return to 2 turntables.

Most of you might come up with a different interpretation of what it would mean, I dunno. But if I'm at all close, it'd have to be a completely underground thing, which means it'll never be what you're looking for.


On the other hand, it's hard for me to imagine where pop music can go that it hasn't already... it's hard for me to imagine what pop music 'moving forward' might mean. Who knows... maybe throat singing will be the next autotune? Genre name: Dub Steppe.

>Then: what would be the hip hop equivalent of three chord pop
>songs played loud & fuzzy?
>
>I don't know, but my first thought is that it would involve a
>return to loops & big crunchy beats. A return to 2
>turntables.

I don't think there needs to be a throwback though. That won't do it. It's taking the aesthetic and applying it to the tools currently available. Not trying to emulate the past using modern techniques. Acknowledge sure, but emulate no.

Aesthetically though I think its very important. The hyperbolized self absorption with a general fuck you while doing that which is a technical if not musical step from the foundations which have already been laid.

________
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█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
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Bringing this level of insight every post - http://is.gd/1i9M6

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>caveat: I'm not the best pick to say this simply b/c I lack
>the in depth background with both punk and hip hop. But this
>is the first thing that occurred to me and near as I could
>tell noone's brought it up yet.
>
the sampling issue is actually a good point, since the cut-and-pastiche format is part of what made the late 80s/1990-or-so period interesting.

But then again 36 Chambers was I think post-Biz/O'Sullivan. And even some stuff like early 3-6 Mafia with its minimalist/haunting beats had a chance at it. Problem is they're borderline irredeemable lyrically and then that style got kind of co-opted and watered down.

>>Something needs to come along and reduce this shit back to
>>its basest elements.
>
>>of whom probably have a TI joint on their ipood workout
>>playlist).
>
>lmao at 'i poo'd'
>
ha, that wasn't even intentional but works.
>
>>Rap is long overdue for a watershed 'punk rock' reaction in
>>the vein of the Stooges or Ramones first two records.
>
>to take the comparison seriously, what did punk do? The way I
>see it, it took away the increasing emphasis on instrumental
>wizardry, all the proggy and arena influences, and back on
>fun, solid pop songs played fast and loud.
>
>Then: what would be the hip hop equivalent of three chord pop
>songs played loud & fuzzy?
>
>I don't know, but my first thought is that it would involve a
>return to loops & big crunchy beats. A return to 2
>turntables.
>
>Most of you might come up with a different interpretation of
>what it would mean, I dunno. But if I'm at all close, it'd
>have to be a completely underground thing, which means it'll
>never be what you're looking for.
>
>
>On the other hand, it's hard for me to imagine where pop music
>can go that it hasn't already...
me too but it's gotta go somewhere, right?

it's hard for me to imagine
>what pop music 'moving forward' might mean. Who knows... maybe
>throat singing will be the next autotune? Genre name: Dub
>Steppe.

not actually the start of it, unless people just get back to rhyming over a live dj, but the rick rubin/mid 80s era, where its was just massive booming drum machines and not much else.

I don't want it to be so retro that it becomes an affectation though, just something raw with a contemporary spin in content perhaps.

.

but it wont be from within hip-hop.

>but it wont be from within hip-hop.

this could be true, I guess I'm impatient to hear the next step whether it comes from within it or not.

You want newness to download. That music is out there but not on BET or MTV so you can attach your sorry asses to it with that fake ass Game.

im witchaz son.

.

.

but thats already basically dead too.

i mean, look at tunes like this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78LC4nCTtIk

rick rubin style minimalism has been done already... it's retro, retread, rehash at this point (neptunes, cool kids, etc.). that's not punk, it's tribute. the only problem w/ grime being hip-hop's answer to punk is that it never truly crossed over to our side of the pond like punk rock did very quickly after it began (well, you took from our rock music, but i digress). no, the truth is that hip-hop itself paralleled punk from the start. aesthetically speaking, it's punk in its purest form.

>rick rubin style minimalism has been done already... it's
>retro, retread, rehash at this point (neptunes, cool kids,
>etc.). that's not punk, it's tribute.
I agree but there's gotta be a way to boil something down while maintaining a contemporary/new bent.

the only problem w/
>grime being hip-hop's answer to punk is that it never truly
>crossed over to our side of the pond like punk rock did very
>quickly after it began (well, you took from our rock music,
>but i digress).
punk started on our side of the pond, that Pistols type of stuff was really just the British answer to MC5/Stooges/Ramones.

no, the truth is that hip-hop itself
>paralleled punk from the start. aesthetically speaking, it's
>punk in its purest form.
I'd be interest to see this thought fleshed out a little more.

>the only problem w/
>>grime being hip-hop's answer to punk is that it never truly
>>crossed over to our side of the pond like punk rock did very
>>quickly after it began (well, you took from our rock music,
>>but i digress).
>punk started on our side of the pond, that Pistols type of
>stuff was really just the British answer to
>MC5/Stooges/Ramones.

that's basically what i was just saying. the ramones and the sex pistols came out around the same time, but i think the UK had a punk "scene" before we did, since we never called mc5 or the stooges "punk rock" until long after.


>no, the truth is that hip-hop itself
>>paralleled punk from the start. aesthetically speaking, it's
>>punk in its purest form.
>I'd be interest to see this thought fleshed out a little
>more.

i've thought about it before, so maybe in the future i'll post about it. it's an abstract comparison of the musical forms as far as how they're made, who they were made by and who for. also, if you look to the late '70s into the '80s NYC, a lot of the punks (and new wave and no wavers) and hip-hoppers knew each other and intermingled. the scenes weren't as segregated as some might assume (or want to believe, oddly). look who worked with afrika bambaataa: john "johnny rotten" lydon (time zone). blondie: fab 5 freddy ("rapture" video and the entire wild style film score). liquid liquid "cavern" and ESG "UFO" quickly becoming hip-hop staples. etc.

New Wave did I guess but punk was operating on a grass-roots level in the US until the early 90's and that's the thing I was getting at above: internet has made the cultural isolation *needed* for something to grow like that impossible...

even if by cross over you mean a huge commercial "crossover" (which isn't what i meant), there was the mall punk of the '80s, which was punk *influenced*, as was new wave.


>internet has made the cultural isolation
>*needed* for something to grow like that impossible...

i think i agree. there are still communities that aren't really on the internet though, however dwindling a population they are. it's hard to say if they feel the need to create a new musical movement because even if they did i think a lot of the music that inspires them is digitally produced and thus out of reach for them to spin off of.

>even if by cross over you mean a huge commercial "crossover"
>(which isn't what i meant), there was the mall punk of the
>'80s, which was punk *influenced*, as was new wave.

What was the mall-punk of the 80's? I've never even heard that term. Anyway, I'm referring to hardcore, the US post-punk movements etc. which was strictly indie more-or-less and was sustained by fanzines, local shows, indie- or even self-pressed records that suffered from bad distribution etc. The alternative american rock that got attention above grass-roots level in the 80's was stuff like R.E.M. and numerous forgotten bands like the Plimsouls, Green On Red, Dream Syndicate etc., bands who's connection to punk was pretty small IMO, it was more rooted in the mid-70's US power-pop boom...

>>even if by cross over you mean a huge commercial
>"crossover"
>>(which isn't what i meant), there was the mall punk of the
>>'80s, which was punk *influenced*, as was new wave.
>
>What was the mall-punk of the 80's? I've never even heard that
>term.

like the go go's, the bangles, etc., and influencing them, the runaways. you can quibble over the term if you want, but you know the music i'm talking aobut.


>Anyway, I'm referring to hardcore, the US post-punk
>movements etc.

ok, but i wasn't, at least not post-punk. how did we even get on this tangent anyway? there was no american counterpart to grime. i'm waiting for you or anyone else to correct me on that. there was american punk rock, whether it came first, at the same time, or immediately after british punk rock. thus i can't justify grime being hip-hop's answer to punk or version of a punk movement, especially over the idea that hip-hop itself was the '70s and '80s black (w/ some latinos and whites) inner city youth "punk"-like answer to a void that existed in music and culture.

>New Wave did I guess but punk was operating on a grass-roots
>level in the US until the early 90's and that's the thing I
>was getting at above: internet has made the cultural isolation
>*needed* for something to grow like that impossible...

what about the respective LA scenes in the late 70s with X, The Germs, Black Flag or the NYC CBGB scene from around the same time?

Wer'e talking about albums that sold in the range of maybe 20 000 at most (and that was rare). At any rate, the music didn't shake up the establishment in the US in any way like it actually did in the UK where punk was genuinely popular; it was a marginalized subgenre that could thrive on a grassroots/DIY level for MANY years before the mainstream started to pay attention which I guess it started to do with Nirvana and those acts in the early 90's...

and I know you love to give Nirvana props, so I'll ride with that.

or grunge?

but i think grime really was like the hip hop punk. it wass fast/frenetic, ultra raw/angry, not pretty at all, didnt have much to do with ideas of 'good taste', so in the same way old rock fans said punk artists were talentless, couldnt sing, couldnt play etc, loads of hip hop artists and fans thought the same about grime artists. though it never said it was opposed to bloated hip hop that was around at the time (in truth it was influenced by a lot of hip hop from then) how punk artists said they hated prog and other 'big' artists of the time, grime was way rawer and hungrier than mainstream hip hop of the time.

eg -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxK2n-K2LLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DHjMbyENS4

are you saying nirvana was the culmination or progression of punk?

if we're looking at grunge music as begat from post-hardcore, itself begat from hardcore, itself begat from punk... you see where i'm going with this?... then i guess the early to mid '90s hip-hop this board champions would be hip-hop's answer to punk. popular but still a continuation of the original ideals and retaining credibility. i dunno, it's a rough analogy and not one that's needed in the belief that hip-hop was a homolog of punk.


>but i think grime really was like the hip hop punk. it wass
>fast/frenetic, ultra raw/angry, not pretty at all, didnt have
>much to do with ideas of 'good taste', so in the same way old
>rock fans said punk artists were talentless, couldnt sing,
>couldnt play etc, loads of hip hop artists and fans thought
>the same about grime artists.

i agree (and please don't spoil this by bringing up the immediately accepted and quickly generic sounds of swizz beatz), but i still think for this to work as hip-hop's answer to punk there had to be an american form of grime. otherwise it's just another niche movement, and you guys are spectacular at creating music that never catches on anywhere else.

>are you saying nirvana was the culmination or progression of
>punk?

they were def the band that took elements of punk to the rock mainstream in the us, which never happened til they arrived.

im getting confused with this 'hip hop already was punk' theory youre talking about. i know people have been saying hip hop was the black punk for years (ie it was punk to black music overall), but it was actually more like the *new* black rock (the parallels are endless). so doesnt mean it cant have its own punk. to be honest, i think the closest american rap will have gotten is the harder crunk/southern rap stuff, even though it had none of punks anti establishment stance going on. but if we think of grime as the closest to hip hops punk, sonically, if nothing else, than maybe the nirvana thing will happen in another 5 or so years (ie grime came around in the early 00s, and it took over a decade for nirvana to take punk to the mainstream in the states).

>>but i think grime really was like the hip hop punk. it wass
>>fast/frenetic, ultra raw/angry, not pretty at all, didnt
>have
>>much to do with ideas of 'good taste', so in the same way
>old
>>rock fans said punk artists were talentless, couldnt sing,
>>couldnt play etc, loads of hip hop artists and fans thought
>>the same about grime artists.
>
>i agree (and please don't spoil this by bringing up the
>immediately accepted and quickly generic sounds of swizz
>beatz), but i still think for this to work as hip-hop's answer
>to punk there had to be an american form of grime. otherwise
>it's just another niche movement, and you guys are spectacular
>at creating music that never catches on anywhere else.

swizz? swizz was pretty influential on a lot of grime producers actually (if you didnt already know). i dont think it not catching on in the US matters. doesnt change the nature of the music or where it stands in relation to the rest of hip hop. british black music rarely catches on in the us, unless it can pass itself off as american. so maybe hip hop could never have its punk.

either way, its always difficult, maybe never a great thing to place rock timelines/expectations on other genres, even if hip hop resembles rock in so many other ways.

>im getting confused with this 'hip hop already was punk'
>theory youre talking about. i know people have been saying hip
>hop was the black punk for years (ie it was punk to black
>music overall), but it was actually more like the *new* black
>rock (the parallels are endless).

i was just thinking of how the tools for creating hip-hop--turntables, other people's music--paralleled the punk musicians who "couldn't play" their instruments or sing well, yet the rawness still sounded good and appealed to the kids, as did the lyrics (hip-hop and punk both had "party" and social commentary songs). both genres were urban born--NYC, LA, london--and communal to those who got it and a racket/noise to those who didn't, who persecuted it.

i've never been into the idea of "black rock" personally. i know when Whale Boy was still alive and obsessed he'd always bring up that afro punk documentary to dis me, but i've never seen it and may not. black people were the first rock & rollers, and while the genre has become majority white a long time ago, blacks never left. i think the supposed "blackness" of the music made by those remaining in the genre is really overstated and overrated. i just want good rock music and couldn't care less who's making it.


>to be honest, i think the closest american rap
>will have gotten is the harder crunk/southern rap stuff, even
>though it had none of punks anti establishment stance going
>on.

right. not a bad idea, but i think it was a little too palatable to outsiders to parallel punk.


>but if we think of grime as the closest to hip hops punk,
>sonically, if nothing else, than maybe the nirvana thing will
>happen in another 5 or so years (ie grime came around in the
>early 00s, and it took over a decade for nirvana to take punk
>to the mainstream in the states).

i think i'm lost at the nirvana being punk thing. i know they had that 1991 the year punk broke documentary, but i have a hard time considering them punk.

do you think grime has even influenced any musicians (producers, rappers, etc.) prominent in the U.S.? i just don't see the UK having the only "punk" movement in hip-hop and then having the "grunge" movement, while we over here remain oblivious to it all.



>>i agree (and please don't spoil this by bringing up the
>>immediately accepted and quickly generic sounds of swizz
>>beatz), but i still think for this to work as hip-hop's
>answer
>>to punk there had to be an american form of grime. otherwise
>>it's just another niche movement, and you guys are
>spectacular
>>at creating music that never catches on anywhere else.
>
>swizz? swizz was pretty influential on a lot of grime
>producers actually (if you didnt already know).

sigh. that's why i was requesting you not bring it up.

for swizz to be "punk rock" his sound (whether he used to make it himself or he always bought tracks off others) wouldn't have been accepted immediately. name the early swizz beats that bombed. i'll wait.


>i dont think
>it not catching on in the US matters. doesnt change the nature
>of the music or where it stands in relation to the rest of hip
>hop.

if a tree falls in the forest...?


>so maybe hip hop could
>never have its punk.

it's possible.


>either way, its always difficult, maybe never a great thing to
>place rock timelines/expectations on other genres, even if hip
>hop resembles rock in so many other ways.

i actually agree. for the sake of Bombastic's question though, punk is a natural comparison to make. remember, we didn't have a grime type of movement here, we're still waiting for things to get more interesting. even underground rap just sounds like a league of wannabes.

i just meant hip hop is sort of black music's rock (im forgetting 50s rnr for convenience). R&B is more like black pop, but hip hop is, or was rather, its rock, where it was very artist driven, took itself more seriously, thought of itself as an agent for social change, an album oriented medium, against the establishment, against 'pop ideals', etc etc. lots of parallels. but yeah i agree, a lot of the so called card carrying black rockers like in afro punk etc, i cant hear anything all that 'black' (as in RnB/soul/funk influenced) in their music. but thats a separate post. we dont need to go there again.

>i just meant hip hop is sort of black music's rock (im
>forgetting 50s rnr for convenience). R&B is more like black
>pop, but hip hop is, or was rather, its rock, where it was
>very artist driven, took itself more seriously, thought of
>itself as an agent for social change, an album oriented
>medium, against the establishment, against 'pop ideals', etc
>etc. lots of parallels.

I was gonna ask is this still the case but then saw you wrote 'was', which I'm inclined to agree with. When did this change though? Was there a watershed moment or more a gradual shift over time for a variety of reasons?

He'll never blow, but he and the rest of Doomtree are close enough for me.

If you think hip-hop is stale and boring, you just need to dig deeper.

and I'm really trying to avoid this being a 'hip-hop is dead'/'youre not looking hard enough' debate. That's been done to death here. I don't subscribe fully to either viewpoint.

I've got plenty of dope hip-hop to listen to still, I don't feel a need for hip-hop to turn into anything other than what it is. Sure, the stuff I listen to might not piss off the "establishment", but even if it did, that wouldn't make it any more enjoyable to listen to.

but if you're fully satisfied, then this thread ain't for you I guess.

but I'm enough of a refined listener to tell the difference between stuff that alienates me by its youth and stuff that's just uninspired.

Rick Ross, Drake, Lupe or even Blu ain't missing me because I'm 32. I just know they ain't really it.

when it first hit the same, it was quite abrasive and not palatable at all to the mainstream. and the music was directly linked to encouraging crime. the sounds were unconventional and distorted. the punk cousin of hip-hop like gumdrops said.

but it was not american. and when exported to america was channeled through hipsters thereby instantly diminishing the "threat" and "danger" of it.

so that's a closed chapter.

what do i propose? a more "hood" and crunk version of the roots. i saw hypnotic brass ensemble and had me wig blown back. everybody was dancing. i felt like i saw the future

but i want something even less refined. i imagine untrained ghetto kids picking up jazz instruments and playing it without knowing "how" to play it. the music would be punk as fuck. i am sure of it.

with this genre it needed to make a dent here and I think the filters you're talking about did negatively effect it.

when it first hit the same, it was quite abrasive and not
>palatable at all to the mainstream. and the music was directly
>linked to encouraging crime. the sounds were unconventional
>and distorted. the punk cousin of hip-hop like gumdrops said.
>
>but it was not american. and when exported to america was
>channeled through hipsters thereby instantly diminishing the
>"threat" and "danger" of it.
>
>so that's a closed chapter.
>
>what do i propose? a more "hood" and crunk version of the
>roots. i saw hypnotic brass ensemble and had me wig blown
>back. everybody was dancing. i felt like i saw the future
>
>but i want something even less refined. i imagine untrained
>ghetto kids picking up jazz instruments and playing it without
>knowing "how" to play it. the music would be punk as fuck. i
>am sure of it.

^^^^this last paragraph is the kind of shit I'm talking about. good thoughts.

>and when exported to america was
>channeled through hipsters thereby instantly diminishing the
>"threat" and "danger" of it.

As soon as "they" (us?) lay the hands on everything new and "exciting" and "dangerous" as fast as "they" (we?) do, shit can never amount to much unfortunately...

>>and when exported to america was
>>channeled through hipsters thereby instantly diminishing the
>>"threat" and "danger" of it.
>
>As soon as "they" (us?) lay the hands on everything new and
>"exciting" and "dangerous" as fast as "they" (we?) do, shit
>can never amount to much unfortunately...
the turnover rate is just too fast.
intense love followed by complete dis-interest.

>but i want something even less refined. i imagine untrained
>ghetto kids picking up jazz instruments and playing it without
>knowing "how" to play it. the music would be punk as fuck. i
>am sure of it.

cos at this point, instruments in black music might be seen as more 'punk' than a beat machine/bit of software. i cant see it happening though, sadly.

i've been feeling that way for a while

like i'm waiting for some shit to just crawl out the gutter and fuck everyones head up

for a minute i actually thought it was gonna be jay electronica, i heard a few joints and thought 'this is gonna change things' but lo and behold it never really panned out, then he started doing interviews and showing up here and there and supposedly bombed a few live shows and the mystique sort of flopped

i feel like what you're waiting for could either be embodied in an emcee that is just so ridiculous on all levels who just comes out of nowhere....or in a completely different style of music, as you described earlier, that's raw and polarizes the masses

....so i cant even complain like ive been able to do in past years this decade

Society itself has switched to an "individual" perspective completely and totally. So all music has done the same thing. We saw these Fight the Power type things back in the day because through several means, artist were discovering that their struggles weren't new to music. They were listening to old records and searching for information to be the first on the scene to tell you about the "struggle."

It was also popular to do so. It was cool to have some form of message in your music for a while. Because people werequick to try to relate to each other. You can see it now more and more everyday that people have a "that's your problem" mentality, so it only seems fitting that the music of the day is the soundtrack for that mentality.

I have a bunch of conveluted opinions on how and why this is, that I think about daily to be honest. But I just don't see anything that the people are going to ban together on these days enough for any music to create a theme song or even good background music for.

-------------------
Trek Life's debut album "Price I've Paid" available now

"New Money" Price I've Paid remix album prod by Oddisee, available on Itunes and in stores May 5th

New album "Everything Changed Nothing" coming soon

>Society itself has switched to an "individual" perspective
>completely and totally. So all music has done the same thing.
> We saw these Fight the Power type things back in the day
>because through several means, artist were discovering that
>their struggles weren't new to music. They were listening to
>old records and searching for information to be the first on
>the scene to tell you about the "struggle."
>
>It was also popular to do so. It was cool to have some form
>of message in your music for a while. Because people
>werequick to try to relate to each other. You can see it now
>more and more everyday that people have a "that's your
>problem" mentality, so it only seems fitting that the music of
>the day is the soundtrack for that mentality.
>
>I have a bunch of conveluted opinions on how and why this is,
>that I think about daily to be honest. But I just don't see
>anything that the people are going to ban together on these
>days enough for any music to create a theme song or even good
>background music for.
>
>-------------------
>Trek Life's debut album "Price I've Paid" available now
>
>"New Money" Price I've Paid remix album prod by Oddisee,
>available on Itunes and in stores May 5th
>
>New album "Everything Changed Nothing" coming soon

The black community has become especially more individually driven during that time. When PE, X-Clan etc was making statements in music.

I actually agree with you, maybe with the downturn in the economy music will take shape in a few years in that direction, but right now I see a "if you aint got yours that's your fault" type of thinking going around.

-------------------
Trek Life's debut album "Price I've Paid" available now

"New Money" Price I've Paid remix album prod by Oddisee, available on Itunes and in stores May 5th

New album "Everything Changed Nothing" coming soon

Just a month ago, I don't remember why but my friend and I were cruising around, boxing the car, having an unusual conversation for my friends to have: an intellectual one. I wish I could remember the rest of the conversation, but due to circumstances I only remember the crux of it that made the whole thing devolve into a disagreement rather than an argument.

Essentially, I asked him to think about how self-centered much of our generation (I'm 21, he's 19) seems when you compare it to generations past. Your post resonated with me particularly because of the phrase "that's your problem", which I specifically pointed out.

"Oh, you don't like Drake? Hater, that's your problem!"

No, guy, sometimes there are REASONS, like that Weingarten Rolling Stone guy said in that video posted a day or two ago, there are WHYS and BECAUSES.

It's sad, but in an era where all public schools seem to be forcing a critical thinking-oriented curriculum on the faculty and students, there is very little critical thinking on a day-to-basis when it comes to most people my age and their entertainment/culture.

I spend a lot of my time on the internet, or with iPod earbuds in, but part of me is jealous of people that grew up with 10 channels and a Colecovision.


http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

NBA 2K9 on PSN: Nodima

but then i dunno what happened to her.....and to be honest its like the cliche phrase "there's nothing new under sun"...thats true, everything has been done already...we can only hope for creativity and imagination...

you know what...thats what hiphop is lacking, imagination...niggas dont dream anymore, they jus want money

and to be honest im not sure if hiphop needs to knocked around as oppossed to maybe niggas need to start changin they focus to uplifting the black community, calling out racism...u know tellin black people to stop killin each other...u know real life shit...

i dont know, maybe follow soul music's example...im remdinded of someones post about hiphop not having an MJ or stevie because its too scared to be vulnerable, its not "hood" enough...maybe hiphop needs to grow up and take responsibilty, i dunno shit...learn how to love niggas

i love janelle monae's raps! ;)

seriously, i think she's talented and enjoy her music, but i don't get the hype. some people even said she could be the next MJ or global superstar.

from all the hype and cool outfits/sci fi imagery... most of that ep just sounded like bad rock.

lol to be honest im sue gucci mane scares the shit outta white folks.

>lol to be honest im sue gucci mane scares the shit outta
>white folks.

lol, I hear you to some degree but it's more like 99% of white folks probably have no idea who Gucci Mane is.....he's at that 2000-era 3-6 Mafia buzz. I look forward to Gucci's Oscar Speech though.