Wow......I've sat back and watch everyone either bash or praise Jay-Z in some form or fashion, as far as his new song, direction for the album, etc. etc......

Well, I thought I'd wait until everyone got out their "opinions" about the song and their take on his career direction before I start sheddin' some "truth" to the matter.....

Hopefully, and I stress hopefully this would help change some minds about the perception of who exactly Jay-Z is as an artist and most importantly, an emcee.....

So, before I begin let me preface this spill by saying, if you are a closeminded, new wave, I just learned about hip-hop last week cat, this post is not for you. There are a million and a half posts that you can reply to on OKP other than this one that will suit your needs......


Here goes....

I first heard about Jay-Z back in the summer of 1996. The first joint I heard was "Dead Presidents". I heard that joint, Wu-Wear, Fakin Jax, and Semi-Automatic in the same damn day(what a day). Luckily, I was blessed to witness hip-hop BEFORE the overground, underground split/big bang of 1996, when rap was rap, no matter if you talked about money, drugs, hoes, mics, trees, sidewalks, shoelaces, WHATEVER. As long as you beats was dope, and you could ride a beat, you made it, which even this day, CATS STILL CANNOT DO IT. Backpackers was called backpackers because they wore backpacks like Black Moon. Most of the time, you didn't wanna find out what was in cat's backpacks........(weed, guns, crack, whatever....anybody that can remember, can I get a witness???)

Anyways, Jay dropped Reasonable Doubt, and niggas went CRAZY. It was a dope album amongst the Ironman's, Atliens, Stakes is High's, BRandLife's, Illadelph'sand whatever else came out in the fall of 1996. That's when dope shit dropped every week. The record stores KEPT cats BROKE, buying 3 to 4 CD's at a time. Then, the underground/overground bullshit started, and through EVERYBODY for a loop.

Even me. I got caught up in the bullshit. First it was called Shiny suits vs. Real hip-hop or some other bullshit. Then it changed from Commercial vs. Underground.

Commercial vs. Underground.

Wow.

That is some of the biggest BULLSHIT ever invented. I don't know who started this shit, but it killed hip-hop. Nevertheless, I fell into the shit like everybody else. I took sides, like everybody else. I took the "underground" side. I became a post 1996 backpacker....not a cat who wore a backpack with illegal substances in it.....shit, I didn't wear a backpack at all, unless it was for class.

Needless to say, between 1996 and 2003 Jay-Z dropped 7 more joints, from In My Lifetime, to BP2. I began to feed into the "underground" way of life even more. If you talked about money, girls, sex, clubs, jewelry, I HATED YOU, no matter what.
No matter if your beat was dope, you rhymed ON BEAT, the song made you dance(hell, that's 85% of rap music BEFORE '96).....na, FUCK ALL THAT, you were commercial, and I hated you.

If you anything opposite of that, you were "REAL" or "UNDERGROUND", and I followed you to the end of the earth, like the Soundbombing's and all those joints they sold on hiphopsite.com and sandboxautomatic.com. Every night, me and fellow OKP bang97xxx would be on line looking for the new "underground" shit.....

Until....

The release of FANTASTIC VOL. 2....


FUCKED ME UP.

THEN I WOKE UP.

All of the things that I hated soooooo much about subject matter in lyrics, good ol' Jay Dee, Baatin, and T3 talked about in EVERY SONG. They called women bitches and hoes, they talked about the going to the club, and might I add, they talked about women being bitches and hoes.....

Over dope beats....

WAS I THE ONLY ONE TO CATCH THAT?

A couple of people did, but there were soooooo many cats that didn't for some strange reason. In the midst of this under/over bullshit, here's a group that did both. They had hooks, they rode beats, they weren't preachy, they just HAD FUN on the songs and that's it.

It made you feel good.

Everybody else was either in the club ALL Night, or freedom fighting for Mumia...

Then came Neo-Soul.

JESUS CHRIST.

That's a WHOLE 'NOTHER POST right there.

Talk about some industry made up shit. Some of the rappers that okp cats praise for doing that quote en quote type of hip-hop HATE THAT TERM....I MEAN....SOME OF YOUR FAVORITE EMCEES......

Oh yeah CONSCIOUS RAP???? These SAME EMCEES HATE THAT TERM TOO...

I know what you mean....its shocking like a muthphucka. We feed into the under/over split that the industry created just like the 12 year old's feed into 106 and park. When I first heard one of my FAVORITE artist say "fuck that neo-soul conscious rap shit", I was floored. I was like, "but aren't you neo-soul and conscious, AND underground might I add???"

Nope, sure wasn't....

Anyway, so then ?uest puts up a post called, The smartest backpacker(see OKP archives), and that made me curious on how divided the music world was....was it some made up shit, or was it actually true???

Made up like a muthafucker.

I fell for it like a dummy. Growing up in 1982-1996 age of hip-hop, I should of known better.

Shortly after, the Listening was born.

One cat on here said that it was same underground/neo-soul/conscious/mainstream shit he hears all the time....

I told Tay, okay.....we are on to something....


STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.

No matter WHAT you talk about. Cats say that Jay-Z talks about the same thing every record. Okay, what the fuck does TRIBE talk about differently from record to record???? What about Gangstarr??? What about Black Moon???? WHAT ABOUT THE ROOTS???

If you are FREEING MUMIA on your first record, then chances are you will be doing it on EVERY RECORD YOU PUT OUT.

Redman makes a reference to WEED ON EVERY RECORD.....

So what changes???

The beats of the record changes the complexity of the album, YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE, NO MATTER WHAT.

You mind a TOPIC here and there to elaborate on, BUT THIS IS RAP MUSIC...

PUBLIC ENEMY TALKED ABOUT OVERTHROWING THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IN SOME SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION, ON EVERY RECORD.

Jay grew up in Marcy. That man knows about street life. He has expanded on certain topics here and there, but DAMN, I DON'T WANNA HEAR JAY TALK ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT POST '96 BACKPACKERS DEEM TO BE REAL.

Sorry.

Just like I don't wanna hear THE ROOTS TALK ABOUT CARS, although I know they own some fat whips......but I guess some OKP's think that they don't 'cause they are REAL HIP-HOPPERS.

Anyways, let's fast forward to a couple of weeks ago.....


So I'm find myself sitting in Baseline Studios, NYC, in front of the "devil"....let OKP tell it, playing beats.....


I played 29 beats.....he listened to every one.

HE DID.

Not an A&R, not an assistant, not his manager....

Jay-Z DID.

Every beat.

I went to several quote en quote "underground, keepin it real labels" and the A&R's was like, "yeah man, I'm gonna go through these and pick out some for(fill in your favorite "real emcee")

Not Jay....

Probably Rap's richest, most power figure to date took the time out to listened to a new producer who got a couple of shots in mags hear and there.

An hour.
29 beats.
At least 2 minutes to every beat.

After which, he asked me, "damn man, what's your story?"

I gave him a quick run down of where I was from and so forth and who my group was. Young Guru already had the Listening, had it the first day it came out, but never let Jay hear it. So did Kanye.

A couple of days later, we recorded. ONE SONG.

He took 4 takes on what some so called "skilled" cats take 4 days to do......

WITH NO PAPER.....IT IS NOT A MYTH......

HE ATTACKS THE MICROPHONE LIKE HE IS PERFORMING....

I have been in some studios with cats that cannot do that WITH PAPER.

That is some hard shit to do, to come up with a rhyme in your head, and spit it like you knew it for years......

DAMMIT PEOPLE LISTEN!!!!!!!

Will the songs make it, who knows.....

All I know is the game, t.v., and the industry has fucked up the minds of this new generation of hip-hop fans.

There are dope cats that OKP's bash on the regular just because they get radio play, and praise the ones that don't....


WHAT THE FUCK IS EVERYBODY GONNA DO WHEN THE MUSIC OKP PRAISE BECOMES MAINSTREAM.....if the industry sees that a Little Brother, or a Five Dees, or a J-Rawls, or a Aesop Rock can sell millions, that WILL be Mainstream hip-hop. Then, EVERY MAJOR LABEL WILL TRY THEIR DAMNNEST TO FIND A COPY CAT.

So, before you label somebody the rap antichrist, or say somebody is not doing it for the culture, check yourself....

Jay gave me shot...

some of your favorite rappers didn't

on the real....

WAKE THE FUCK UP OKAYPLAYER....ON SOME LAWRENCE FISHBURNE SCHOOL DAZE SHIT...........


Oh yeah, I rocked the fuck out of my Okayplayer shirt at baseline. Jay said...."damn, I was just on there this morning".


Aight, everybody take turns bashing me across the head....

LOL!!!!!
PEACE!!!!








Ghost talks about wallabees ON EVERY RECORD....

cats where killing me with Jay doesn't have subject matter when he has the same or more subject matter as every rapper out there. I really don't think cats are listening or they just want to hate.

Jay spit fire on that new track. That nigga sound hungry as fuck again I don't see how people is not feeling it. People talking about the beat hearing it no the radio on some computer speakers. I'm talking about the lyrics the only thing I can comment on now and that nigga flowed his ass off.

Sounds like you brought your A+ game to the studio/session. Glad to hear he really listened to your music instead of having someone else (doesn't Dame usually pick his beats)listen to them for him.

Whos next?

Commerical/Underground

Music is music and if the beat plus the flow is right, it's tight.

I really wanna hear that shit y'all did

Nicolay

|

Jamming your radar in 2003:

NICOLAY - "City Lights" hosted by LUNCHBOX
JUSTUS LEAGUE - "Mixtape Volume I: NC State Of Mind"
SUPASTITION - "Chain Letters" EP

Knockin' on ya door in 2004:

FOREIGN EXCHANGE (Phonte & Nicolay) - "Connected"

I promise you . . . This album is INCREDIBLE . . .

>I promise you . . . This album is INCREDIBLE . . .

We got a release date on that ish?

...black friday.

or krs one. they get way more hate that jigga on this site.... nelly even.

>or krs one. they get way more hate that jigga on this
>site.... nelly even.


nelly deserves it. he would be the fit under 9ths "WACK AS FUCK" category.



---

nelly...

damn right...

under/over...

that fucka is wack

I'm telling Nelly on you !!!

betta watch dem lunatics mayne !!!

j/k


its nice to hear that some people still give honest opinions...

another producer wouldnt say that for fear that the artist wouldnt fuck with them...

but fuck it principle over profit

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

your right, 96,97,98 was the shit...i wasnt a big Jigga fan back then either but he is my fav of all time now...he was dope but those times is when Kweli, Mos, Asia, Rasco, Dilated were all coming up...i loved them days...Bay Area was killing the udnerground those years....ah damn....

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

Thanks for taking the time to relate the story on Jay.

One,

Diggs

i hardly see any jay z hate. and if it is, its stupid because he's the only consistently good one in the mainstream right now

some cats just dont or wont like anything when it gets shine. period.

definitely happy for u on the shot to be on the album (or a wicked unreleased track lp :))..but at the same time, being where jay is right now, he's a lot more at liberty and in control of his music creatively enough to put people like you on. i'm sure a lot of people would 'give you a chance' if they were in his position...doesn't seem too fair a statement for you to make. another reason you can't hate on the mainstream too much...the possibilities (or the means to have those possibilities) are certainly more prevalant. which is probably why cats hate so much..all that $$...all that label distribution deal..sign whomever you want type appearance..makes fans wonder what's really going on.

but i agree, even if our favorite underdogs did blow up, people would turn at the drop of a hat. i dont concern myself with those people. its like they dont even like hip hop. they just like being exclusive and possessive. itd be like that if it were hip hop or rock or polka.

i know youre a fan man but...

no one hate com because of his out of control airplay and popularity

unless EC went quadrouple quadriple plat while i was sleeping last night

its still hate for bullshit ass reasons... hate lyor cohen.. hes the one to hate. common and jay z aint never fucked wit no one..

days on this new one.

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

yeah.

he said he was taking it back to those days...

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

.

n/m

.

I would needlessly add to the scan factor of this post by re-pasting everything you said (which I willfully co-sign - we've got a lotta parallels in our listening patterns cat), HOWEVER, this PARTICULAR part needs to be shouted over a loudspeaker simultaneously in every city across this country and world for that matter...

>the game, t.v., and the industry has fucked up
>the minds of this new generation of hip-hop fans.
>
>There are dope cats that OKP's (add: people outside of okp as well)
>bash on the regular just because they get radio play,
>and praise the ones that don't....

<---Freestyle King

I was actually the same way until a couple years ago. That shit is too arrogant though. Mothafuckas actin like they have the authority to define what is and isn't "REAL" hiphop. I think the gap will close it self when cats no longer think of it as a realistic divide.




---

Man from 96' to 00' U got some music to catch up on..

It's the same thing with the South/Midwest/North/West...

Under/Over ground...In general, South cat's ain't spittin nothin. Yeah...there are exceptions, but south music is not based on mic skills. And if you ain't into the bounce/crunk beats, it has nothing to offer. My opinion...still garbage.


"Times is hard, it's hard for me to make it. It ain't hard to tell, but it's hard for me to fake it. Plus it's hard to be me, it's hard to stop drinking. I guess it's hard for you hard Niggas to start thinking...." -Common

Niggas got this pre-conceived notion of Southern spitters and they tune out instantly....ask Ninth about Dynas...he from Miami, and he's dope as fuck.

Niggas don't know what brewing down here and that pains me so much cause we got some shit here, but nobody will listen past the words "I'm from the South and blahblahblah...." Fuck already. Get over that shit.

Muhfukkas act they wanna see some sort of Hip Hop Civil War out this bitch.

P.S.- 9th, that SV shit did not fall upon deaf ears over here. I picked up on that shit, but I also never fell prey to the "divide".

...never said that that no one from the South brings it. In general they don't (in my opinion.)

"Times is hard, it's hard for me to make it. It ain't hard to tell, but it's hard for me to fake it. Plus it's hard to be me, it's hard to stop drinking. I guess it's hard for you hard Niggas to start thinking...." -Common

I'm originally from Detroit, but I've lived out west too, so I've gotten to appreciate hip hop from damn near every region first hand and un-censored by the industry. I'm sure you knwo stuff from where you live thats flyer than the stuff your area is known for.

I pray anyone can identify with what I'm saying here. I can off top name 3 three cats in Miami RIGHT NOW that ya'll would shit your pants after hearing, I'm talkin about albums cuts or on the corner off the top.

DYNAS
J-PURE
PitBull

and thats not even gettin into the producers bubblin down here. But until we break through we have to deal wit the stereotype that every nigga out the south spit like Trick Daddy.
Funniest shit about it is that years ago, we was tryin to shun the stigma of booty music like the ATL cats.

I hear ya, big man. I am stereotyping by making that generalization. But at the same time, I'm not being prejudice (judging EVERY artist based on that stereotype.) I will gladly give credit where credit is due whether you're from CT, Atl, Miami, etc....

But as long the vast majority of cats from down South put out garbage music (or as long as that's what's aired), then that's how the music will be generalized... the same way that back in the day booty music and Miami were synonymous. Sorry....

Oh, and I was born in NY, raised in MD, and currently reside in CT.

"Times is hard, it's hard for me to make it. It ain't hard to tell, but it's hard for me to fake it. Plus it's hard to be me, it's hard to stop drinking. I guess it's hard for you hard Niggas to start thinking...." -Common

and probably everywhere, I can't vouch for them though, is that the dudes with the "dirty money" backing can afford to slide radio a grip under the table and get thier stuff played until the drones have memorized it. The cats such as the ones I mentioned, and myself cannot afford to pull those stunts, so there fore radio just shuts the door in our faces, never mind if the song is good.

And vinyl's been phased out so much that you don't have many plants that press wax, and the ones that do, charge you an arm and leg, plus rights to your first born draft pick in 2010.

Thats why the garbage makes it, they got the money men behind em, and the money men wanna hear music that appeals to them cause they think thats all there is in life.

Oh, well...I'll be in NY in Nov. maybe I'll be regarded differently in another setting.

And what the fuck has ever come out of connecticut?

Ain't Atl in the South??? Can you say Big Boi? 3000? Cee-lo Green???

"He is OVERSERIOUS"

What does that prove? I'm not reppin for anywhere! Just pointin out a trend I observed: Southern cats generally don't bring it.

That said, I judge everyone on their own merits. Big Boi, Dre, Cee-Lo... yeah, I can appreciate them. But I'm still stickin to my original statement.

Analogy: I don't like country music... Yeah, I dig a Leanne Rhyme's song here and there, but in general I STILL DON'T LIKE COUNTRY MUSIC. Same difference....

...But to each their own....

"Times is hard, it's hard for me to make it. It ain't hard to tell, but it's hard for me to fake it. Plus it's hard to be me, it's hard to stop drinking. I guess it's hard for you hard Niggas to start thinking...." -Common

>What does that prove? I'm not reppin for anywhere! Just
>pointin out a trend I observed: Southern cats generally
>don't bring it.
this is a oxymoron......
>
>That said, I judge everyone on their own merits. Big Boi,
>Dre, Cee-Lo... yeah, I can appreciate them. But I'm still
>stickin to my original statement.
.....coming from a moron. How can you judge each rapper individually, then say that cats from the south generally don't bring it? How many cats from the North generally brings it? (by the way, just because Jay, Nas, and Biggie are/were good doesn't excuse the fact that benzino, ja, drag-on, sheek louch, wyclef, bleek, loon, and countless others sound like pure shit!)

>.....coming from a moron.
lol...

>How can you judge each rapper
>individually, then say that cats from the south generally
>don't bring it?
The same way I could say I like a few Leanne Rhymes songs, but in general don't like her music...or country music for that matter.

How many cats from the North generally
>bring it?
Dog, I don't know...11, 15, 4?

Look man, I was just responding to the guy that said people hate on the south for the simple fact that they from the south. He was makin an analogy to 9th's argument about commercial music. I was just makin the point the some people genuinely dislike the music for what it is (as opposed to hate for the sake of hating.) I happen to fit into that category. If you love the Ying Yang Twins or think Bone Crusher embodies good music, then fine. I just don't see it the same way. It's that simple man.


"Times is hard, it's hard for me to make it. It ain't hard to tell, but it's hard for me to fake it. Plus it's hard to be me, it's hard to stop drinking. I guess it's hard for you hard Niggas to start thinking...." -Common

I know that's some really obscure shit but the old heads that listened to P-Fine on WNYU might remember them.

one who knew the answer.

i woulda known it anyway (cuz they shouted it out in their rhyme), but out of our crew (NY, NJ, Philly cats, mostly) at school, there was one kid from CT, and he would never let us forget that there was hip hop in connecticut.

"The skinniest... yo, that's me/
jock box, aka, j.b/
from connecticut, yes bridgeport town/
like anywhere else, we come to throw down"

i had that on some ol, lady b street beat tape... it just sticks in my brain.



peace & blessings,

x.

"I'm on the Zoloft to keep from killing y'all." - Iron Mike

shit in my opinion, it's just the opposite! niggas from the south are coming with the most original and creative music in the game right now, you've heard of outkast right?...the dungeon family come on man, these niggas have been innovating the game since '94...

- - - - -

www.wingnutjazz.com <--- !!!!!!
peace & love

I can't even ride around in my Range Rover 4.0 OR my BMW X5 cuz of him. that ain't right.
_________________________
"the point is im over kanye west im sure many people like him but he is no joker the bailsbondsman"

straight from steve madden

that is the best scene in the 'Streets Is Watchin' movie. Imaginary Player is the knock too!

...thats is FUNNY!

...HAVE skills, just like you said, the beats they chose are weak.

This have must of been a humbling experience for Jay(and crazy for you) for the simple fact he's worked with hard-hitters of the industry and then come upon yourself, a hard-working up & coming producer and have your music move him. Thats real.

-Rn

You should of aksed Jay how come Pete Rock didnt get a call for the Black Album.

if it was up to OKPs, Pete Rock and Primo would jsut produce everything

ONE Jay & Pete collab would be enjoyable.

-Rn

FuckOuttaHere.

-Rn

>if it was up to OKPs, Pete Rock and Primo would jsut produce
>everything

You forgot about JayDee. lol.

I would have to agree with everything you said....


"People make their jokes, and say we're off to see the Wizard
But me and Dorothy and Toto's on yo' ass when you visit"
-Kansas City's own Tech N9ne

Best post I've ever seen in the Lesson. Maybe this'll get some cats to stop with the constant hate.

...and the dickriding starts.

>STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE
>ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.

Yep.

>Oh yeah, I rocked the fuck out of my Okayplayer shirt at
>baseline. Jay said...."damn, I was just on there this
>morning".

Now that's funny! ....Jay-Z on Okayplayer. Bet he comes to read the Boondocks.

9th this was probly one of the best if not the best post that i have ever read. wow. this shit is true as all hell. i am a fan of all kinds of hip hop and i categorize it as good or bad. i may blast on ppl like lil jon, but damn i do like some of the stuff he puts out (get low anyone??). same goes for ppl like dilated ppls, who are underground, but i am not a fan of them. to me, its about the skills of the ppl making it, whether they are underground, conscious, mainstream whatever ppl wanna call it. jay-z's new album is one that i expect to be one of the best. i am expecting it to be fire on every level. i liked his so-called poppy vol 2 and 3, as well as his unplugged with the roots and reasonable doubt. more than likely i will like his new album no matter who puts tracks on there, although he seems that he is working with the best producers on this one i.e. dre, tim, kanye, primo, 9TH WONDER, etc. it really is not about mainstream or underground its about who is good and who is bad, who you like and who you dont like. one of my recent posts in the lesson asked ppl if they were like me when i said that i listen to the roots, outkast, atcq, 2pac, biggie, eminem, little brother, jaylib, or whatever at the same time. i got some saying they do and some critisizing that i listen to all the shit of 'subgenres'. fuck that! i know what is good hip hop and what is bad hip hop. so what if i can bump snoop dogg AND a tribe called quest on the same album. its all good stuff to my ears.
thank you ninth for making a post that tells these ppl on the site what is true. this post makes me want to hear your track with jay-z all the more. hope it makes the cut man. peace.

i love jay-z
i love mc paul barman

i love ghostface
i love j-live

i love mf doom
i love eminem

dope as fuck and wack as fuck, there are some in betweens but yeah those are the extremes

im surprised young guru knew what time it was

maybe if enough cats stop sleeping and your record doesnt make the black album you can put out a 9th wonder compilation with known mcs that arent in jl

im still waiting on legacy, median, chaundon and ea flow projects)

>im surprised young guru knew what time it was..


You would be surpised what that man has in his CD case!!!!

Of course he has his works, all the Roc shit he mixed....

but...

he got all the Tribe Joints..
All the Roots joints..
All the Slum joints, even Dirty District..
The UNSEEN
Our joint.....
JUST CLASSIC SHIT!!!!!!


His case looks no different from yours and mine



for real

REAL RECOGNIZE REAL

>The UNSEEN

You talkin' about Jay or Young Guru?

If you say Jay - DAMN.

If you say Young Guru - that's peace. A good engineer knows he gotta know a lil' bit of everything.

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

>All the Slum joints, even Dirty District..



That shit made me proud to be Detroiter even before Trinity dropped....

Young RJ held that shit down!

OKReportin' for REAL though...

Man, can't thank you enough for giving an insider's perspective/report.

>Aight, everybody take turns bashing me across the head....

Come on, now... that shit is the TRUTH and I think cats'll feel it.

It's funny, I'll be into whatever I think is hitting to me, over/under/whatev, but I will straight be making excuses or kind of apologizing about it when it's some radio-airplay shit like, "Oh, I got caught liking this one song on the radio."

Alright, I'm going to cut that out.

I'm tired of stretching money out like elastic. --Big Pooh

First off, he gave you a shot not because he is an angel, but because he is good ass business man. You got nice ass beats, he'd be stupid not to give you a shot. You got that precious hour because of your WORK and TALENT, I mean I know you are on a high, but don't act like you climbed HIS mountain to get to this day- he just met you up on your summit (flown up in his Maybach helicopter LOL.)


Secondly, Slum Village is not the first group to give one pause as far as content- sheeit, Just-Ice (Latoya), Schooly-D, the list of morally ambiguious emcees is a hall of fame list...

Honestly though, when I think of Jay-Z, this old KRS lyric comes to mind, "Got wealthy artists spending money loosely/you ask about their culture, they talk 'bout Gucci" ('Ya Know The Rules')....at this point, Shawn Carter is much more than that, as he or even his great grandkids couldn't go broke, but even with all of his clout, loot, and Beyonce to boot, that is what sticks in my head.

I think many of us 'heads' saw the direction that Hip-Hop took when the "positive" era commenced and believed it would continue to evolve as a social tool, and were vexed when it became all about commerce. The insult to injury was that talented cats accepted this from the 'industry' and rode along, and I think Jay-Z is viewed as one of the primary culprits in this respect. I used to be quite agitated about it, but it seems to me he has not gone the route of the Hammers of the world, which to me was more insulting to this art than anything...and I can say so because I had my fam drive me to that fool's house so I could see the remote control waterfall (before they foreclosed on that shit).

So there it is- we saw possibilities, and continue to see them, in hip-hop. I don't blame Mos or Talib or Common for not wanting the 'Positive Rapper' moniker- that's like being called Urkel. You can see it here on Okayplayer- post something political in GD and what do you get? "Take that shit to activist"...or check out anything cats be posting about Common and Erykah...haterade ain't even adequate for that venom.

I can't imagine being Shawn Carter or Lonnie Lynn in 2003, a morally ambiguious time when real live Gangsters live in the white house, to be labeled positive in an art that is positive is negative (ask Common about this), and we all got mouths to feed. Oh by the way, we need to save everyone else's children. What to do? Shawn Carter did what he knows best- he did Marcy, and now he is the so-called God MC (that shit sounds like a fake boxing title-Why not just call him Grandmaster?).

It is little wonder why ?uest said Hip-hop is dead or such- we all waiting for John Wayne to come and save us from ourselves and our tragedies. Meanwhile, Jay-Z says, "give me your wallet"-but in an artistic manner (lyrically perform armed robbery)...Jay-Z ain't the Devil...the Devil would have put some thing in the koolaid to boot.

>First off, he gave you a shot not because he is an angel,
>but because he is good ass business man. You got nice ass
>beats, he'd be stupid not to give you a shot. You got that
>precious hour because of your WORK and TALENT,

Agree!

insightful reply...

Glad you said it, cuz no one will listen to me.

experience.

I swear, I never knew about the under/over split till I started posting here.

These kids put too much on the media, or shall I say, yawl give them power. From magazines to reviews to web pages.

Hip Hop is meant to be lived, not studied.

Peace

Wendell

*sigh*

BROTHER_DONTE
misterbrother@aol.com

"REUNION" by Muhibb Dyer

Grandma's macaroni and cheese, hot rolls,
a can of Miller Lite over a game of Bid Whist
on a sunny day forever in our memories
where kids with spaghetti stained shirts
get their diapers changed
in between playing in the sandbox
and the drunk uncle once again tells everybody
he ain't they family no more!

Earth, Wind and Fire and Jay-Z play simultaneously,
old folks "bop"
and young folks "drop it like it's hot"
and church folk tell both of them
they're going to hell.

But even still we laugh together,
pray together, and accept everybody
from the gay cousin
to the white in-laws who married in
to Muhammad (even though we still call him Larry),
we are still blood, still tradition, still culture,
still generations of strength whose legacy
will continue 'til the end of time.

Reunited.

From the 2003 12-month calendar "The Children are Crying."

For more information, e-mail thechildrenarecrying@hotmail.com

More on "The Children are Crying" calendar:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/Metro/jan03/110295.asp

More on the Milwaukee poetry scene:
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/music/jan03/109313.asp

Check out local hip-hop/spoken word act BLACK ELEPHANT at:
http://www.kairocom.com

sanitizes Hip Hop. Takes away it's essence.

Peace

Wendell

>sanitizes Hip Hop. Takes away it's essence.

Agreed - music 1st and foremost evokes a visceral, NOT cerebral response.

That said, I'd have to say that as soon as hip-hop was consumed outside of its African-American audience is when the categories and subgenres came into being - the misogyny Eazy E. and NWA shouldn't be separated from the "conscious" Native Tongue dialectic of ATCQ - after all, isn't "Bonita Applebum" really about hittin' it?

Backpackers - not a term referenced in hip-hop circa '89 - if it were 15 years or so ago, a lot of you avowedly "dedicated" hip-hop heads would be wearing Iron Maiden "Eddie" baseball shirts, harboring total disdain for what was emanating from the South Bronx.

What's an example of hip-hop being sanitized as a result of it being studied? Is that the case of any other cultural phenomenon being studied? Take for instance something like film. If you learn about certain styles and techniques and cultural significances, does that take away from the essence of watching movies?

So I guess if someone wanted to study what 9th was talking about, the transition from overground/underground to commercial/mainstream, that would be a disservice to hip-hop?

I can think of worse ways as to how hip-hop has been sanitized, starting with radio airplay and media exposure--an overall lack of balance with the music--plus others that have been mentioned countless times in this post already.


BROTHER_DONTE
misterbrother@aol.com

"REUNION" by Muhibb Dyer

Grandma's macaroni and cheese, hot rolls,
a can of Miller Lite over a game of Bid Whist
on a sunny day forever in our memories
where kids with spaghetti stained shirts
get their diapers changed
in between playing in the sandbox
and the drunk uncle once again tells everybody
he ain't they family no more!

Earth, Wind and Fire and Jay-Z play simultaneously,
old folks "bop"
and young folks "drop it like it's hot"
and church folk tell both of them
they're going to hell.

But even still we laugh together,
pray together, and accept everybody
from the gay cousin
to the white in-laws who married in
to Muhammad (even though we still call him Larry),
we are still blood, still tradition, still culture,
still generations of strength whose legacy
will continue 'til the end of time.

Reunited.

From the 2003 12-month calendar "The Children are Crying."

For more information, e-mail thechildrenarecrying@hotmail.com

More on "The Children are Crying" calendar:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/Metro/jan03/110295.asp

More on the Milwaukee poetry scene:
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/music/jan03/109313.asp

Check out local hip-hop/spoken word act BLACK ELEPHANT at:
http://www.kairocom.com

>>If you learn about certain styles and techniques and cultural significances, does that take away from the essence of watching movies?

Anyone can watch a film, but studying it wouldn't make you an expert on film-making would it?

Studying Hip Hop is a lot different than living it. Buying and listening and observing is a different world that participating.

I can read football play books all day, know all the stats, have sex with the whole team, but if I'm not out on that field then I can't say I know what it's like to play football.

Cats think that because they've heard every song on the Internet, they down with the culture.

Hip Hop is communal. It has to be experienced that way.

Peace

Wendell

dude just talks about the human condition. wack.

*sigh*

sherlock

they were that happy medium that was really missing to me...

like it is the best of both worlds..

usually you get the party shit over cliche beats
or you get the cliche rimes over innovative beats

that vol 2 just blended both and took the cliche's out the mix...

but on the real every artist should be cognizant of every musical movement taking place... even if you just know about the sound and havent heard it... every artist should... these are your peers... there is no reason to neglect learning about your craft... that said... i bet we'd all be surprised by what niggas are really listening to.





holla @ god

The Telecommunications act of 1996 which basically allowed Clear Channel, Infinty and Radio One to buy every damn station in the country and start to unify their playlists based upon demographics.

It also re-legalized payola in the form of "independent" promoters who basically funnel money from record companies to radio stations for airplay

THAT is when the cataclysm happened and fucked the game up.

You were left with those who could afford to pay to get airplay (major label artists) and those who could not (independent label artists)

This has killed black/urban music for at least a generation.

PS

Respect for sharing your Jay-Z story BTW.

thanks for addding that...

now THATS a constructive reply.
not that i dont appreciate reading the wonder's post either, thanks 9th.
i noticed it while reading a copy of new internationalist magazine specifically on the music industry.

bill clinton's pro-corporate moves were a bit more discreet than Dubya but big things happened it seems.

you'll never see the development of another Sugar Hill, Wild Pitch, or any other label from small business to powerhouse.

You have to start off with big money to get into the game now.

That is why it took a lot of money from "alternative" sources to fund latecomers like Murder Inc., Cash Money and No Limit.

This was also partly true b4 payola but, after '96 it got much, much worse.

You really think that Jay-Z and Boots Riley share the same agenda?

Do you really think that every indie imprint out there is only a ploy to get notice from majors?

In other words just because some wish to jump right into the corporate world doesn't necessarily mean that all do.

YOU DID IT NUCCCAAAAAAAAAA!!!

HAHAHAHAA ALL I CAN DO IS FUCKIN LAFF!!!!!!! YAHHHHH PLAYAH!!!!!! HAHAHAHA MAD RESPECT YOU SON OV A BITCH!!!

that kinda shit, makes me happy. a mothefucka wit heart. if cats are confused, look where he was at and who he was recordin wit. and yo, i feel your philosophy. taht shit is getting PLAID out! it ain't no diff than east vs vest.

btw..i emcee...i can lay down 30min freestyles any time, any day. ya dig? and i aint' talkin bout no dead shit either.



peace.

>Jay gave me shot...
>
>some of your favorite rappers didn't
>
>on the real....

Name names. Cause I'll start you off. Rakim....right? So feel free to name a couple more that didn't give your beats a chance.

fuck it, u worked with the best of all time. THE BEST. THE KING. THE BEST. his adlibs and swagger alone puts him at the top...thats dope Young Guru got all that shit. too bad u missed Tdot...Tay and Pooh seemed to like it a lot...i should of hit that afterparty tho..fuck...


VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

yeah man, not much to prove now. Just more resume fodder

Which in turn did much damage to hiphop. Speaking on '96 and you pull out a Tony Touch classic you got BIG, Jay, Nas (so called commercial) right alongside FT, MOP, Wu (so called grimy) right next to Sadat, OC, Roots (caught somewhere in the middle).

A big part of hiphop is the SINGLE (or the B-side). Let's face it, great albums are the goal for the artist and the listener but there are alot of artists out there that don't have a great album in them. Back in the day that could still be cool. E-Rule didn't have to make "Illmatic" but he had "Listen Up". Even if you didn't buy all the Boot Camp albums (tho many of us did) you knew every one of those singles by heart. Over the past 3 yrs I've bought/burned/accumulated about 20 hiphop albums and last month was the first time I really enjoyed any of them b/c I stopped hating the whole - took the song that knocked - threw it on a mix CD and finally have something I used to take for granted as a monthly given in 1996 - a hiphop LP (Long Play) that I can run from top to bottom.

But 9th is right... it's gotten ridiculous. To where I can't get one group of people to consider for a second that Jay-Z, Ludacris or Eminem might be dope and another I couldn't pay to listen to a Quasimoto, Little Brother, J-Live etc. And to be honest with you I'm not trying to defend any of these artists whole catalog. That would be impossible. But muhfuckers need to stop being so close minded + all or nothing. We're all walking contradictions. I own everything ever put out by Q-Tip, Roots, Common and Gangstarr and you know what? 50's record was better than anything any of them put out last year. So was Jay's "Blueprint". So go figure...

Thanks 9th - there are people out there that needed to read this from someone they love and respect. And keep coming with those beats bwoy. Shit is fire!!!!

BTW

I agree with everything you said, but as a fan it is hard to ignore the fact that jay is not as good as people would like him to be. I used to be extra underground at one point as well, but i have always been that type of person to respect a good song when i heard it. No matter the aritst from Luda to 3-6 mafia, if you put forth the effort you will always be able to find at least one banger on there records, but you can also tell that that the majority of there record is geared to sell to a certain audience which makes them at the end of the day lose respect with most underground fans.

Peace and Blessings

C.A.D 5000 - AKA Big Champaign (If you don't know you better ask some body)

"Right on to the real, and death to the fakers"
- Big Rube
From True Dat

Come See about me http://profiles.yahoo.com/cad_1979

I Got Them Pics http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289041789&congratulation_page=Y

And Now: Some good bars from The Late Big L, RIP:
"If you got somethin to say, then cough it out
Cuz niggas be wantin beef, but when you pull out
the heat they ready to talk it out
What is there to talk about?
You was just frontin, now it ain't nuttin
Ain't that somethin? I should start bustin anyway
and put one a you punks in the ground
Y'all niggas be killin me with y'all faces round, jumpin around
Like you scarin us, not even
Cuz me and Shy' gon' be some thugs til we stop breathin
......"
- From Shyiem's Furious Anger

Was his choice of singles.

"Sunshine" and "The City Is Mine" were wack pop fluff to me, especially compared to "Dead Presidents" and "Ain't No Nigga".

His second album came out right in the middle of the so-called split, and I wasn't trying to pay $12 or more for an album full of crossover attempts to fill Biggie's shoes.

Actually, I was originally hesitant to pick up 'Reasonable Doubt' because of the subject matter (it seemed like everyone was on that wanna-be mafia shit, as noted by de la), but after hearing most of the album, couldn't deny the dopeness of the music contained therein. But as soon as Jay-Z obviously tried to aim for a wider audience, I wasn't with it.

I may never go back and pick up any of those four albums between 'Reasonable Doubt' and 'The Blueprint', but I'm always checking to see what he does next.


And as far as the media's precipitation of the "underground/overground split", I always think back to The Source (which i stopped reading in 1997), who from what I remember, were the originators of using the term "backpacker" with a negative connotation. They started to casually throw in little quips about "Common/Organized Konfusion T-shirt Wearers", when these were artists who they previously heaped praise upon. It was bugged, to say the least.


And congrats.






_______________________________________________________
                                           

They don't sell Spearmint Altoids in the suburbs.

the albums inbtween Reasonble Doubt-Blueprint,Blupreint2 were as good...some like 1 and 3 were good. BUT NOT GREAT OR AMAZING like these 3. jigga is wrong to say Nas only has what 1 or 2 good albums..they are tied in this category.

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

...you already know the rest.

like i love EVERY SINGLE TRAK on there...*shrugs* i just do..like on "Nigga Please", i love it...in the begining..pimp stroll, pop ya colar, hug my nuts, bitch holla!..plus young chris who is nasty now...damn...i love it.

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

I'm kinda eating my words for all the shitting I did on this album.

.....gets clowed 'cuz he had Sunshine on there..but that was a dope album fuck all the bullshit......"Where I'm from", "DO or Die pt.2", "A million and 1 questions", "Imaginary Player"..shit on that song alone the nigga changed the game on what people DRIVE and shit.......

>"DO or Die pt.2"

Or "Friend or Foe pt. 2"?

BROTHER_DONTE
misterbrother@aol.com

"REUNION" by Muhibb Dyer

Grandma's macaroni and cheese, hot rolls,
a can of Miller Lite over a game of Bid Whist
on a sunny day forever in our memories
where kids with spaghetti stained shirts
get their diapers changed
in between playing in the sandbox
and the drunk uncle once again tells everybody
he ain't they family no more!

Earth, Wind and Fire and Jay-Z play simultaneously,
old folks "bop"
and young folks "drop it like it's hot"
and church folk tell both of them
they're going to hell.

But even still we laugh together,
pray together, and accept everybody
from the gay cousin
to the white in-laws who married in
to Muhammad (even though we still call him Larry),
we are still blood, still tradition, still culture,
still generations of strength whose legacy
will continue 'til the end of time.

Reunited.

From the 2003 12-month calendar "The Children are Crying."

For more information, e-mail thechildrenarecrying@hotmail.com

More on "The Children are Crying" calendar:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/Metro/jan03/110295.asp

More on the Milwaukee poetry scene:
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/music/jan03/109313.asp

Check out local hip-hop/spoken word act BLACK ELEPHANT at:
http://www.kairocom.com

listen past the beats and to the lyrics on volume 3

i love every album except blueprint 2 which i just *like*, but volume 3 is in the top 3 out of his catalogue in terms of rhymes.

You know?

And like most "backpackers", I've never doubted Jay-Z's lyrical skill, so it's not like I don't believe you.



_______________________________________________________
                                           

They don't sell Spearmint Altoids in the suburbs.

>Was his choice of singles.
>
>"Sunshine" and "The City Is Mine" were wack pop fluff to me,
>especially compared to "Dead Presidents" and "Ain't No
>Nigga".
>
I will agree that The City Is Mine was a weak attempt at crossover. But I must maintain that Sunshine was really a good single that just didn't make. There are plenty of them. The video was tight, the lyrics were hot. Could ya'll please tell me what it was lacking??!

I would also like to state once again that Vol. 1 was a very hot album. The perfect balance of crossover appeal with strong lyrics and solid beats (other than Lucky Me and The City is Mine). Go back and please listen to what this man says on this album. Please.

Thank you for your time and attention and the bathrooms are on your right.

But to each his own, and all that.


>Go back and please listen to what this man
>says on this album. Please.

As I said to atruhead above, I've never doubted Jay-Z's lyrical skill or ability to go beyond flat materialism with the subject matter. I know there's songs I'd like interspersed throughout each of those albums, but that's not enough to convince to go out and buy them. If I find them used for a decent price, then maybe I will.




_______________________________________________________
                                           

They don't sell Spearmint Altoids in the suburbs.

Folks make this argument often in the Lesson but it'll probably mean more coming from an artist that many probably assumed hated Jay-Z and "commercial" hip-hop.

muthafuckas gotta learn

Yo..9th...this is your boy Steve from GW...

you have once again proved why you are my favorite producer in hip-hop ever.

we had a similar discussion the night you performed at the 930 club with the roots last semester (i think it was in april)...

it is your down-to-earth and intelligence that puts you above the rest of these cats. you love music for music and you are humble.

congrats on your come up with jay...he started (or escalated) the careers of many producers...hope the same happens for you...

ill be there to support every 9th wonder mix CD or LB album i can find...

peace

Good post!!!!!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
u industry we in da streets-Cormega

I just think when people claim to hate something they tend to talk louder and more frequently about it.

When you feel the way you do your opinion is kinda limited to either a) I'm feelin it or b) I'm not feelin it. those types of opinions often get overlooked.
____________________________________________________________
"Well," said Powell, grinning, "Now do you believe that we made you?"
The Robots answer was curt and final. "No!" he said
Powell's grin froze. Donovan's mouth dropped open.
"You see," continued Cutie, easily, "you have merely put together parts already made. You did remarkably well, I suppose-but you didn't really create the robot. The parts were created by the Master."
As he left, Cutie turned, and said in a kindly tone, "But don't feel badly. In the Master's scheme of things there is room for all. You poor humans have your place and though it is humble, you will be rewarded if you fill it well." - Isaac Asimov (I, ROBOT)

_o__ __n_y _y__r_

Maaan, I felt like I was listenin to Slick Rick rhyme with the story you were tellin!

Congrats on everything, it well deserved.

the division was there for a reason. indie underground people didnt like all that the overground MCs represented and they had good reason for it. DMx wasnt simp

Much respect to Ninth and his music, but I can't co-sign on everything that the man said. Ninth asked (or should I say shouted):

"WHAT THE FUCK IS EVERYBODY GONNA DO WHEN THE MUSIC OKP PRAISE BECOMES MAINSTREAM.....if the industry sees that a Little Brother, or a Five Dees, or a J-Rawls, or a Aesop Rock can sell millions, that WILL be Mainstream hip-hop. Then, EVERY MAJOR LABEL WILL TRY THEIR DAMNNEST TO FIND A COPY CAT."

Sounds good to me. I hope it does happen. I have no problem with good, unknown artists going multi-platinum and becoming the "The New Mainstream" like Nirvana did for rock in the early 90s.

However, I don't like when artists who used to create good, quality music change their style to put out bland, formulaic garbage in an obvious attempt to "go mainstream" and reach a wider audience. Good music is good music, so why change up? That's what I don't get, and that's what I don't like about some (not all) so-called "mainstream" or "commercial" music: it doesn't represent the artist's best effort, but rather is a dumbed-down version of what the artist or someone else feels the public will accept.

BTW there was a concept of "the underground" way before 1996 which is why EPMD had a track called "Underground" on Buisness As Usual back in 1990.

All that shit you prefaced your post with...I knew what you were saying without even reading it. And as soon as my damn party comes and goes, I'm replacing the ad in my sig with the following quote: "STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK." I'll take out some of the dots though, hope you don't mind. You could have posted just that and made the same noise, homie.

Anyway, I am proud of you for the whole Jay-Z experience and I don't even know u bruh. I'm glad Jigga is giving new people a chance and he's not as close-minded as some of the close-minded people on this board think he is (ironic isn't it)? I will be a Jay-Z fan forever, even when he quits and makes 3 comebacks. Anxiously awaiting ur contribution to the album.

thanks for the updates
*crossing fingers hoping ur track will make the album*
-------------------
yes....yes....yep
welcome to tha....
Shane G. extravaganza
I like to introduce the band right now
Es Jay and the Jayzettes
right now I want u to give the drummer some
no ma really, give the drummer some
------------------
SouthernGul & Masta Es Jay=Tha Poisonous Dartz
We're not being nice anymore!
_____________
Midnight Marauders 2nd wave
-------------
ICU doin it girl
ICU doin
ICU doin it girl
ICU doin
ICU doin it ma
ICU doin
ICU doin it ma
ICU doin it--A Tribe Called Quest

*L*....otherwise, good stuff....

a lot of folks on here should re-read that section on jay talking about the same shit, tribe talkin about the same shit and the roots talkin about the same shit. i wish you would post this in OKArtist too.

Are you still doing that EP with Murs. Great post by the way.

i just asked him about this the other day. he said they will be working on it from nov. 3rd - 13th. shit's gonna be DOPE!

peace~

T."The Beat Specialist"
| www.beatfanatic.com |
| www.slopfunkdust.com |
| www.littlebrothermusic.com |
| www.akrobatik.com |
| www.beatsociety.com |
| www.thefoundationlive.com |
| www.k-otix.com |

*Current Projects*

·JUSTUS LEAGUE - "Mixtape Volume I: NC State Of Mind" 2CD
·AKROBATIK - "Untitled" 12"
·AKROBATIK - "Balance // The Beat Fanatic Remix Album" LP
·SUPASTITION - "Chain Letters -- The Remixes" EP
·UNSEEN - "THE IDEA" LP
·GRAND AGENT - Master Thieves 01: Fish Outta Water : The Remixes" LP
·TRUTH ENOLA - "Untitled" LP
·TRUTH ENOLA FEAT. DE LA SOUL - "Untitled" 12"
·KAY OF THE FOUNDATION - "Untitled" LP
·BIG POOH OF LITTLE BROTHER - "Untitled" LP
·REEF THE LOST CAUZE - "Untitled" LP
·SLICK & ROSE - "Objects In The Mirror" LP
·DUTCH MASSIVE - "Untitled" LP
·SUREAL OF DOUBLE HELIX - "Untitled" LP

>So I'm find myself sitting in Baseline Studios, NYC, in
>front of the "devil"....let OKP tell it, playing beats.....
>
>
>I played 29 beats.....he listened to every one.
>
>HE DID.
>
>Not an A&R, not an assistant, not his manager....
>
>Jay-Z DID.
>
>Every beat.
>Not Jay....
>
>Probably Rap's richest, most power figure to date took the
>time out to listened to a new producer who got a couple of
>shots in mags hear and there.
>
>An hour.
>29 beats.
>At least 2 minutes to every beat.
>
>After which, he asked me, "damn man, what's your story?"
>

I woulda been nervous as what. How did you feel? What was the mood? Was niggas heads noddin'? Details man..

what was the situation like.... who else was in the room....

You weren't paying attention.

A lot of people clowned their rap skills in general.

I personally prefer Jay Dee on the mic to the other two.

As for Jay, if people don't like his content, they just don't. I mean, I know gangsta rap fans that won't listen to some rappers because of their non-gangsta content. It's a free country.

But SV got a pass for liberal dosage of "bitch" and "ho" content when they were soulquarian associated (read: conscious).

I think they (with the exception of Dilla) wore their lack of skills on their sleeves. It was obvious they wasn't "nice".

Yo, I haven't been really checkin what people have been saying about Jay-Z getting a beat from you. But, because this is okayplayer it's easy to imagine there was some dumb controversy.

When I heard about it, I was just like..."oh yeah? that's interesting."

I hope that this track gets picked. simple as that.
And I don't even like Jay-Z like that. (of course I won't deny his skills though)

Some of these okayplayers need to get off of that dumbness, for real.

i guess for the thousand'th time....well said, thank you. For such a great producer - that i know damn well everyone that visits this site has the highest regard for - to say this in that manner - thank you man...it's been said before but you broke it down in a great story.

Speak into the box below, my love

www.anthonyhamilton.com

posts circa 2000/2001.I agree there should be only two types of Hip Hop, dope and wack..I think that's paraphrasing Miles Davis who said there's only two kinds of music ..good and bad....

I aint really got much to say aside from keep posting your insight.I'm getting tired of posts about who's the G.O.A.T!!!

Good lookin'



'Reek come into the party with a cape and a cane' REEK GEEZ (The Pros)

'never coming twice in one form'- Reek Geez (Organix)

Where's Zeno right about now? Big up 9th...Durham we made it!

here at a club I was dj-ing at here in Houston........

I was playing some underground stuff and dude was like "you're playing some good stuff.... do you have the new Little Brother?"

I was shocked because most of the folks in there were commercial heads (it was early in the night).....

I said "Yeah, what you know about Little Brother?"

He said "I grew up with him in North Carolina....."

He mentioned something about you having drums back in the day and said that Charlie Mack (the guy mentioned in your album) is actually the name of your brother.

Dudes, name is Marcus, he runs a barbershop out here...... eeeh, just thought I put that out there.

>STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.

exactly! i'm looking forward to the new album, not just because of you, 9th, but because of what you said. good post

just...wow. I love okayplayer.com!!!

ayo von, archivage mayne

SHMEA?!

just let your soooooulglooooooow

yeah seriously..

whatup IGN!!!

Did Jay pick the beat right in front of you and just vibe with it? Or was he already ready to go after having the beat for a few days?.....Does he talk to the cats in the room while he's formulating his rhyme, then say "Yo, I'm ready" out the blue, or does he go over in the corner by hiself and vibe till he fells it....I'm interested to know how this man works, dog.....

this right here....I'll co-sign too.

"Backpackers was called backpackers because they wore backpacks like Black Moon. Most of the time, you didn't wanna find out what was in cat's backpacks........(weed, guns, crack, whatever....anybody that can remember, can I get a witness???)"

LOL.

I never go anywhere with out my pack, but I'll be damned if I'm sensoring myself from listening to Jay-Z or Puff, just cause some fuck think its the rules to this shit...lick balls I'm bumpin obie trice and talib kweli in the same breath.

This is why I love Okayplayer...cuz of posts like this.

thanks 9th!

Not that you need it, but good luck on gettin' that cut on the album.

I hope there's another willing artist when I get my 29 joints ready for listening.

FYI: I'm one of the listeners who's been looking down on Jay recently. It has nothing to do with his subject matter, money, success, ect. What I don't appreciate is the intentional dumbed down lyrics/flow/content. The majority of songs on BP2 sound like he's reciting the A, B, C's for wanna be hustlers. I have the same problem with all MCs that do this. Some are more susceptible than others. For a cat like Jay, it's apparent that he's after air/sales. But new cats haven't proven themselves to be great MCs. They hit the industry with watered down versions of themselves. Not speaking for all OKP, only for myself, it's a coincidence(or not depending how you look at it) that my taste are split between the over/underground; however, my taste do overlap. Most artist that get air, get it with intentional attempts. Nothing wrong with artist trying to get their money, just not the type of music I'm into.

My hip hop collection contains some of the most conscious and some of the most gangsta artist. I could care less what they talk about, just make it poetic. It's music, it's hip hop. If you call yourself and MC, abide by the rules. There are some MCs, regardless what they talk about, they make it sound like hip hop. I just came up on J-Live's All of the Above. I've seen him live a couple of times, but having the CD to rewind paints a better picture for me. The way he spits, he could talk about walking back and forth to the store and it would be more poetic than most of the shit I hear.

n/m

I work music retail and cats are so fickle...
What I like now, I have always liked...
What I hate, I have always hated....
But cats today are so fickle and can't/don't represent for what they truly support....
*claps hands*
Thanks for "keepin it real"

"Ya give her ya thang dontcha?" ~Anonymous Dirty Old Man

"I wanna save the world and niggas too." ~Me

"Wouldn't you have sex if you were guaranteed to cum 99.9% of the time and did not have to carry a child?" ~ My man Isa

"I was a swarthy 6th grade girl with sideburns." ~Big Fat Greek Wedding

Check This Out: www.verbalisms.com

Jay Z is simply the example because he signed your paycheck. I have a bit more respect hearing the time he took with you and appreciate where you are coming from.

But on the flipside I can give you one word that tells a different story............NAS

In terms of hip hop I understand the underground/ commercial concept, and I am fully bias to the underground. However, I still feel Nas is the best MC currently in the game. I have listened to every Jay Z album fully. I just don't dig his style thats all plain and simple. And when you mention shiny suit rapper the Sunshine video he put out might actually be the first vision that comes to mind with that title, maybe a bit unfair because everyone makes mistakes. But still, I have yet to be compelled to buy a Jay Z album. I do buy commercially successful artists, if I feel their talents, but my question is by throwing people like you or Kanye on his album is this simply a marketing ploy to potentially interest me into buying my first Jay Z album?

Jigga is the all around emcee. jigga can do traks that nas shouldnt dare try. example, a southern trak. example; nas, that trak with lil john. yea. Nas is teh better lyricist. dont get me wrong. better flow goes to jigga. his cons out way nas's.

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

Nas has his zone that Jay can't fuck with either. It goes both ways. It's the same comparison of Rakim vs. Kane. They're two totally different people. Kane was in front of the cameras while Ra was on the low. Their personalities dictate their styles. The lyricist vs the emcee...its all a matter of what you prefer (I prefer Ra to Kane, Nas to Jay but listen to them all).

I don't agree that Jay's cons outweigh Nas'. I think Nas just had to reach further to get the mainstream success. There's not a lot of lyricist that go plat every time. Matter of fact Nas is the only one.

Jay has the better production and that's his edge. They've both put out ther share of subpar material.

have that mainstream appeal..u said it yourself..he had to reach farther..and never grabbed it like jigga has....u said it better than i did. those are your words.

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

WTF

I'm saying that a straight lyricst like Nas or Rakim is less likely to reach mainstream audiences because of their lyrical content. That trend goes on for days. Thats why a Fabulous can blow and move more units than Ras Kass. Does that imply Fab is better than Ras?

tahst my point. not that u cant go mainstream and sell millions u aint dope...no. but being able to do well on both sides of the fences is amazing. swagger. its all about fucking swagger. not just lyrics. i can have lyrics. if i cant say them with any swagger well that shit gets boring. being able to have both is ridiculous. most emcees maintsream or underground either have one or the other. usually never both....

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

Swagger ain't that important to me. Cats like Kane and Jay kick the braggart raps so the swagger is naturally an extension of the lyrics. It's like an NBA player that scores 25 on some flashy shit vs a cat that gets 25 quietly. They both get the job done in different ways.

Personally, I'd rather not mention sales/mainstream in a skills argument. I judge mc's on voice(Nas), flow(Jay), lyrics(Nas), storytelling(Nas), content(Nas), creativity(Nas), stage presence(both need work), intagibles(Jay)...there's other categories that would balance it out but that's another post.

Nas is like a combo of Ra and G Rap and those are two of my favs so I prefer Nas but I still bump some of Jay's shit. I'm more into songs like Life's A Bitch or Ra's Ghetto with some introspective shit.

in in your voice, flow, lyrics, storytelling, content, creativity, stage presenence), intagibles...flow shines through in all categories...NOBODY in the game has swagger like Jigga got and at the same time being top notch in 90% of those categories...it just doesnt exist..the only person i thought taht could do waht Jay done is dead, and would've of been on the Roc...Big L.


VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

crazy MTV exposure and mainstream radio airplay across the dial.

Not as much as Jay. Jay is more recognizable.

no doubt......opinions are opinions......
alot of cats don't express opinions like you bruh.....

cats hate to hate, without honest and constructive criticism...


thanks for the love...

peace!

...its was never so much the subject matter that i cared about ..it was the decline of the beats in that jiggy era ...i've always been a beats and dj first cat, so that whole shit killed me, actually it gradually made me stop spinning at clubs & parties and makin beats at a time when hip hop was everything to me. When cats started choosing keyboards with cheesy sounds instead of real music (jay is guilty of this) is what broke my heart..

yes, jay has always been a dope emcee.. but he's partly responsible for the disappearance of the music i love.. but with blueprint, I saw him return to the backdrops I loved.. so I think in a way he came full circle.. while others are still confused..

but im not feelin that first single of black album.. i was promised the ruggedness!!!

i loved reading this post 9th. :)

take it easy, weezy

LMAO!!!!!!
ARCHIEVE

n/m

...BIG HOV!

first post ever.

been reading for like 2 yrs. now.

Cosign to the fullest goes out to 9th. Truu words spoken, by a cat I respect much.

Let the people know, this issue is bigger than Jay, that alone is a large topic by all means. The future of Hip Hop dwindles in the balance. Listeners nit-pick everything that is wrong with Hip Hop, if you dont like it, fix it yourself. But, if you dont plan on addressing the current state through music, learn to listen. Cats need to get outta the funk their in, and just listen with an open mind.

CaMeO
High Society - "Above the Bullshit"
Samurai Minds - "Style with Substance"

Lotta suspect ass niggas in this post,(and I'm not gonna name names, but I could easily pull up posts on a lot of you contradictory/non-consistent/hyporcritical mf'ers) who I know i've argued with over this particular topic in one fashion or another.

This will blow over in 2 days, and most of these cats will be back to their old selves.

Glad you getting attn as a producer.

one
k. orr

have these muthafuckas brown-nosing don't even like 9th Wonder.

good post, but worst replies ever.


--------------------------------------------------------------

BWG's top five albums of 2003:

5. Prefuse 73 - "One Word Extinguisher"
4. Lightning Bolt - "Wonderful Rainbow"
3. The Mars Volta - "Deloused in the Comatorium"
2. MF Doom as Viktor Vaughn - "Vaudeville Villain"
best album of the year:
1. Starflyer 59 - "Old"


illgaluminati - part of a global terror network

did you find out how he found out about you?

Quest?

props to whoever put j onto 9th.... this is a great post... hopefully ninth will get some shine from this...

beause that was my post and I was the first to comment on the song.

Like you said it's either dope or wack. I could care less about commercial or underground. If it moves me I give it credit. That song did not move me and a lot of other people felt the same way.

I been in through all that stuff you mentioned and I remember all of that.

Yes, I get tired of cats talking about the same thing UNLESS they find a unique way to do it or the lyrics/beat are too good to deny. That song sounded like standard Jay to me. He's too good for that basic shit especially if this is to be his finale. I expected more. He last few choices haven't been his strongest joints (Bonnie n' Clyde anyone).

I don't mind if he talks about broads if it's Big Pimpin or hustling if it's Friend or Foe but if he spits the same old story over an average track then I'll move to something else. I'll listen to the Clipse talk about coke for a whole album if it all bangs like Grinding.

If Phonte and Pooh rhyme about girls and cars I'll enjoy it as if it's dope. Good luck to you on making the album.

>If Phonte and Pooh rhyme about girls and cars I'll enjoy it
>as if it's dope. Good luck to you on making the album.

I thought they did?

lol

and I loved it

nm

probably more love than anyone i can think of..

Abridged Lesson verdicts:
Jay - consistent. brilliant. lyrically at the top of the game.
Nas - past his prime.. no one forgives him for 'you owe me'
Tip - the same as above.. see Amplified & Kamaal the Ab
Kwe - has heart but a crammed meter
Little Bro - on point, but uncomfortably derivative
Roots - Phrenology failed
Common - Electric Circus failed
Em - talented.. but race muddles a proper critique
Luda - respect for the flow.. mistrelsy association aside
OutKast - unadulterated love & respect.. & ere'one knows they talk about hoes and pimping as much as the next man.
Def Jux - the 'definitive' underground as 9th sees it gets shit on in these boards.. (sans RJ) .. i don't know.. the list goes on and on. i don't think we need 9th to illuminate for us what's dope and what's not. lessonheads are hard-headed bitches. we know what we like is deeper than backpacker / shiny suit bullshit.

i wouldn't have even poked my head out to respond but my man's cap locked ANGER threw me. he should've saved this for a rant at hiphopinfinity. no one denies jay's talent. 9th's recent epiphany about the ignorance behind underground/commercial has been exposed for what it is a long waaay back. back when stress granted us the pleasure of a daily visit..

maybe you're referring to the OkayArtist board.. but who the hell cares about what those 12 year olds tap about anyway.. i think race (em, northern state, atmosphere, anticon, etc. is more intriguing in these parts than the tired commercial/underground debate)

for the record, i don't agree with the assessments of the illafifth, Com, Tip, or Nas.. and i'll leave it at that..

lOl

You summed up the Lesson in one post.

The Jay-Z support is the most noticable thing about these boards.

It's frankly confusing.

the is

I'm sick of that hate argument that a lot a you are bringing to the table right now. If people dis a song without hearing it or bring up irrelevant shit then call it hate. That "if you don't feel this you're retarded and hating" shit gotta stop.

If someone doesn't like a song because:
A)not feeling it lyrically
B)not feeling the beat
then what's the problem? I saw no evidence of hate in the other post, just valid reasons for liking/disliking the song.

Are you listening?

It's looking like OkayArtist in here.

...true theres more than a few okayartist moments in this post

>...true theres more than a few okayartist moments in this
>post

co-sign like a mofo

I'm glad somebody sees it.

Cats on sohh.com posted 9th's shit and they're talking about it there. Somebody said okp's are on Jay's dick. lol

It's funny because my first post years ago was about Black Thought. Cats were on here listing him as the best ever in their top 10 lists. I posted that there was no way you can rate him over Ra, Kane, KRS, or even Nas, Big, and Jay. Some had my back, most called me a hater even though I had valid reasons. Then Quest came on defending his boy and a flood of cats came through and and rode the post on some OkayArtist shit.

I wish I could dead the guy that brought "hating" to prominence. Anyone that disagrees can be dismissed as a hater. Back in the day we didn't do that. We argued our points.

hope your joint makes the cut...

1. Now that we know that this is definitely going to be achieved, this post should serve as the Excalibur to all bullshit argument that goes on in here. As soon as the shit talkers start what they like to do best ... we should just refer them to the 9th wonder's post and especially yo the line

STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.

i mean it's that simple

2.

<<<So, before you label somebody the rap antichrist, or say somebody is not doing it for the culture, check yourself....
Jay gave me shot...
some of your favorite rappers didn't
<<

With that said and knowing how rappers have egos the size of a blue whales, was working with JAY-Z make the chances of you working with NAS even less likely ... i mean he knows your value seeing how you made his production on godson seem like music class experiments.


<<--- Avatar: Ask him for a light
------------------------------
*****************************
Creative expression has no limits, and always delving deep within yourself is the key to individualism

And so i ask "who are you"

Alpine--Da beneficent

************************

Thoughts at a thousands miles per hour
Hello, ghetto, let your brain breathe
Believe there's always mo'

A post like that shows that no matter how old I get - there's still a fire that burns inside me to get open on this topic.

I feel like I can wax poetic on so many of 9th's points, but my many words will just float off into cyber space - so I'll be fairly brief.

I think there are a lot of people who share 9th's view. I went through all the motions that 9th makes reference to. I still remember being up at school my freshman year, and I think I can remember exactly when this all began to take shape for me : when Jeru released "One Day". It was like a line was drawn, and everyone took a side (and yes, I was 'independent as phuck').

It took some time - but after hearing songs like "Heart Of The City" - I seriously wondered what else I had severely slept on.

But while my present day mantra is "if it's dope it's dope - period", I find myself becoming increasingly disheartened and overwhelmed. I used to just go to The Wiz on Tuesday's, and buy cassette after cassette for $7.99. I remember being 15 and copping "Midnight Marauders" and "Enter The 36 Chambers" on the same day. Everything was right in front of you. Now I feel like an old phuck with the internet..I can't keep up with all these releases, let alone know which one will be what Pete and CL's "The Main Ingredient" means to me...

And the "Blueprint's" and "Stillmatic's" are simply too few and far between...How do you get it back to how it was? Every year records drop with tracks from Luda, Busta, Meth, that I think are BLAZING - for the moment..Then you play it for me next summer and it's not killing me..This music is not standing the test of time with me..Play "Southern Hospitality" now and you'll probably say "cool"...Play "They Reminisce Over You" or "Ain't Hard To Tell" over a decade later and you'll get chills..

I'm not trying to be this kid stuck in 1993..I'm just afraid this all will pass me by..The Jay Z's and the Nas' will soon retire..The future CD's sold in stores will be Chingy and Fabolous...I am going to be too tired to listen to real audio samples to see what album I should get on www.hiphopsite.com ...When will the day come that obtainable rap music will once again have perpetual substance, and not be an interchangeable Busta Rhymes single that I will never be able to tell the difference with from the last one.

Damn, and I said briefly. No wonder my mom is always sleeping when I try to talk to her.

One.

Id expect nothing less than praise...but for the most of us he is still the rap "antichrist"

He ain't no "antichrist" nor was Puff years ago. No one is saying that here. If that's your view than cool but don't imply that that's the case in the Lesson because the opposite is true.

There is a lot of confusion going on over one song.

...has nothing to do with that, bruh...

like I said, I don't even know if I made the cut, so I ain't fed yet......

I just give props where they are due, I don't care WHO you are. I stand up for cats, that's just me, whether you are Jay-Z or anybody else....


I just brought up Jay as an example to assist my point in the under/over issue. I can only speak on life experience. That experience just happened to be S Dot.

My post was for every "commercial" cat that gets bashed on here just because he/she is "commercial" or "overground". Not only Jay.....if I did a track with David Banner, it would be David's name instead of Jay everywhere.

Yeah, I've seen some Jay-Z praise posts, but at the same time I've seen some Jay-Z bash posts....not everybody's opinion that is posted on this site is constructive criticism, its just.....pure hate....

there are cats that on point with theirs, but what about the rest of OKP that make up a large majority, the cats who just like to get shit started for nothing.


So this post was sparked by not only the Jay new song post, its just months and months of sitting back and reading what cats post on the boards.......

Like what you want, criticize what you want, just be consistent, and do it with tactfulness...we are grown ups(some of us anyway). Remember, these are cats livelyhoods we're speaking on, whereas half this board is still living at the crib in high school with ma and pa dukes, living the bill free life....CHILLIN!

I was there once, too....living it up.......but the real world is not an MTV show, it is a bitch.....

You wanna rap or make beats, you out on the street hustlin', tryin' to pay bills, with no support from mama and daddy for like 3 years

A label comes along and says "yo kid, you nice, sign this deal for 700,000......but you gotta wear this chain.....and sit around these hoes......."

All that "real hip-hop" shit will be out the window for some cats.....then some cats maybe able to tough it out.....

For real.....

damn brah...keep preachin it man...did you get to peep any other tracks from the album? if so could you give a description

just be like me....let some of these dudes cancel themselves out. there is nobody that talks about brand new shit every record...i mean shit who talks about more than 5 things in their life? no matter how vast the topic can get, if you talk about ass and hip hop all day then you talk about ass and hip hop all day. if you talk about sports and cars all day then thats what you do.

so aint nobody being supertopical in this world




(my weblog...updated October 14th!!!)

why dont you own my latest albums?
- out now
want a copy?
vonpea@hotmail.com

both are repetitive but doesn't learning all day benefit you more?

<<You wanna rap or make beats, you out on the street hustlin', tryin' to pay bills, with no support from mama and daddy for like 3 years

A label comes along and says "yo kid, you nice, sign this deal for 700,000......but you gotta wear this chain.....and sit around these hoes.......">>

seriously...some of the cats on these boards don't understand anything about poverty, ghetto life, or 'real' situations. sure everyone's experience is different, but for the most part cats gotta 'eat' - like really eat....food eat.

i'm not saying no one understands, but life can be hard.
man, i don't wanna sound like a know it all, but this past summer i had a chance to go to NY and actually stay in Brooklyn -near Nostrand ave. man - in 'just a week' the shit that i saw - poverty's real. that life i heard in rap songs for so much of my life is so real.

Being from Toronto and seeing so many cats that wanna be hard - then going to NY and seeing cats that gotta be hard bugged me out. Trust me, a record deal when you ain't got shit? most would take it. sometimes it's bigger than hiphop...

....beats my piece of sh*t 9 to 5 i have now...

my response to you is, why should we care that this cat took a way out by being "commerical". I mean i cna understand and respect that shyt, that he got out. but why me (as a consumer of hip hop and a fan of hip hop) care about that shyt. that shyt wont pay my bills or feed my children. So i need to get shyt i like. And I dont like jigga. I dont dislike him either, but i dont like him enough to cop his shyt.

that's what i want to know.

Mos and Kweli were talking about underground is where the raw shit is and were subliminally dissing everything mainstream. Mos was talking about Puff and they had shit that could be seen as disses to Jay too.

When they saw that the dough wasn't rolling in and black folks weren't coming to the shows they switched up. Every Kweli interview I read now he's praising Jay and 50. Mos shits on poetry now. These niggas are now trying to shake that concious label off that they helped create. It's not all on the fans. Artist pigeonhole themselves sometimes without even realizing it. They got a lot of fans to believe that "commercial is wack" shit but now they wanna backslide.

I got no beef with Jay's mainstream status but he needs to come harder than that joint he just dropped. He's been lunching for a minute. Don't confuse flow for lyrics.

and congratulations on a gratifying experience (and potential big win)

are suspect.

VERY suspect.

Like, Tevin Cambell suspect.

That said, Ninth posted basically what amounts to common sense, and basically what a rational hip-hop fan should feel. The rest of you 'Oh wow, I never thought about it that way' cats are either white, or rock highwaters.

Name names.

What makes you say that?

you've argued with lots of these people on the very thing that 9th is talking about, and they have a completely diff story.

Hell, you could do user-search on most of these cats and find some very hard core contradiction.

just cross-ref http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/lesson/84242.html with this post.

>are suspect.
>
>VERY suspect.
>
>Like, Tevin Cambell suspect.
>
>That said, Ninth posted basically what amounts to common
>sense, and basically what a rational hip-hop fan should
>feel. The rest of you 'Oh wow, I never thought about it
>that way' cats are either white, or rock highwaters.

co-sign, co-sign, co-sign.. jesus, i can't believe some of the responses to this post.

theyre not hip hop fans. hip hop is just their way to feel special.

im saying 9th admitted to being one of these same people so what does that say of him? I mean i may agree they are hypocrites but, ahh forget you are true hip they are not you are just as bad as them though

off dat nutmeg, ppl. NUTMEG.

www.theepicureans.com (still)

www.freestateproject.org

'i will work you. i will WORK you. i will WORK YOU, dog...' - ct

lol

been feeling this way for a minute.

the is

Ninth:Jigga man I know you got a R&B bitch for me...


Jigga:Oh shit playa...no doubt...no doubt who you got in mind

Ninth:Monica...she needs some good trax

Jigga:Well..i dunno what if Jay Hovah wants that later?

Ninth:I let you listen to a hr of my beats. You got Beyonce. Cmon...you probably dubbed MY shit under the desk and gonna have Kanye remix that shit to some bullshit Alvin Theodore Simon sped up chipmunks vocal loop bullshit.

Jigga:::Stops tape:: What about Lumi Dee?

Ninth:Lumidee? Cmon I dont want that fat mallrat

Jigga:Why you want Monica?

Ninth:Good ass,great voice,southern belle and she can cook you know how we okayp's do

Jigga:They gonna hate you more though...

Nintha:Let them HATE I got MONICA BRAAAAAAHHH!!

Jigga:Beat for the mami #,2 way? deal?

Ninth:I was gonna spend it on a little brother chain at jacob the jeweler anyway.

Jigga:Alright after I give you this..there is no indian giving... We don't play at the Roc on deals

Ninth:JUST GIVE IT!!! ::grabs paper::

Dame Dash walks in with armadale vodka:

Ninth:No thanks...I don't drink da vod

Jigga:Drink some or you gonna hurt his feeling ::whispers::

Ninth: takes a sip:: mmm ahh... that was nice

Dash:Im gettin tired of holding this bottle all the time in public. You think you can do it for a few days?

Ninth:No.....I got alot luggage. Sorry but thanks for asking I am honored.

Dash:Aw man im screwed Why did I fuggin name my record label Rocafella! I have trouble paying for my kids dentists bills alone!!! Too much pressure now Jay is leaving...
Who I got ol swollen wise ass mouth and the super soaker gunners and Beanie Siegel...They all gonna go gold combined!
Yo you wanna do a beat for Posh Spice?

Ninth:No... I gotta catch a plane to Atlanta..
I'm ghost like D'angelo

::hums/sings So Gone while he runs out the studio:: :

..clever

thats some crazy stuff

about him now? I agree with u on it doesn't matter about what they rap about , it's either dope or not but the thing with Jay is that his shit is way watered down. Dude thinks he's too fresh now , maybe he needs to take more than 4 takes to get that to the Reasonable Doubt days. Good luck with the beats?

have not listened to the new song. A new link was just posted with a good quality, dj free, what more can i say. Listen to that a couple times and tell me he is watered down. He is putting his heart in this song and you can feel it. Its one of those songs that gives you goosebumps when you listen to it.

ha.....the one where he's biting Biggie again?

but thats just me

for my money, somebody needs to put science fiction on

off dat nutmeg, ppl. NUTMEG.

www.theepicureans.com (still)

www.freestateproject.org

'i will work you. i will WORK you. i will WORK YOU, dog...' - ct

i talk w/ 9th everyday and i didn't see it coming people!!!...lol.....but everything he touched on was right on the money....but i can't stress enough the "dope as fuck" vs. "wack as fuck" statement....everything gets a fair shake in my opinion....last year i praised the big tymers for the "hood rich" album....but i can't say that they are moving me the same way w/ this new joint..lol....but they got the fair shake.....as for jay-z....dude is a walking legend....i honestly pray that he calls it quits after the black album, for the simple fact that he is in a position to do what no other hip-hop artist has ever done....EXIT THE GAME ON TOP (UNDER HIS OWN WILL)!!!....not by an assassin's bullet....it's the equivalent of what mike jordan did when he hit that infamous shot on the jazz back in '98 (if my memory serves me correct)...although he fucked it up by coming back to the wizards!!!! (whole 'nother post)

That's the story I want to hear...how you got in a position to play Jay 29 beats.

thats my guess..plus review in The Source..the mtv you heard it first, he comes on the boards and a lot of emcees lurk, ?uest might of mentioned him, kanye and guru probably mentioned him..*shrugs*

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

Man, I 've been telling people about that stuff for a minute. I was always bothered by Thought saying, ya'll ain't saying nothing new when he wasn't being more diverse than the next man. That's still one of my favorite mc's though. At the end of the day, are you dope or not. That's what it's all about.

Non-Believers get my dick and genitals backwards-Redman

One1

Seriously, I've heard a lot of people use that word in this post but I don't see it. What's the hate in not liking a song? Everyone won't feel what you feel or to the degree that you do.

I've seen a lot of negative responses to this song here and other boards. I would say that the majority of the responses have been negative. Is this a mass hating campaign or are there legit reasons for a less than positive reponse?

While I agree with much of what 9th said, some of you are a little too enthusiastic acting like you just had an epiphany. I've seen cats say the same thing on this board numerous times and niggas wasn't calling to archive it. If your favorite artist says it it's gospel though.

>Seriously, I've heard a lot of people use that word in this
>post but I don't see it. What's the hate in not liking a
>song? Everyone won't feel what you feel or to the degree
>that you do.
>
>I've seen a lot of negative responses to this song here and
>other boards. I would say that the majority of the responses
>have been negative. Is this a mass hating campaign or are
>there legit reasons for a less than positive reponse?
>
>While I agree with much of what 9th said, some of you are a
>little too enthusiastic acting like you just had an
>epiphany. I've seen cats say the same thing on this board
>numerous times and niggas wasn't calling to archive it. If
>your favorite artist says it it's gospel though.


for a second, i thought i was the only one thinking this. i wanna check out the track for myself though. props to you, 9th. hope i get there 1 day.

>If you favorite Artist is saying it.....

C'mon man, if your favorite emcee tells you to check for "so and so's" next album, you'll believe him over a cat that you don't know coming up to you saying the same thing.


True indeed. If I am the catalyst to bring this topic to a head, then so be it. C'mon man, for real, you seen hate in cats on here, about ANYTHING. It may not be you, or a couple of others, and it is not because you gave criticism on the new Jay song.......

No matter how "big" or popular someone gets on here, they are still on okayplayer. I am still a player, for real. I rep it wherever I go.

See, what you and I are doing is called an honest discussion over opinion. You're seeing what I'm saying, and vice versa. That doesn't happen on here too often. Cats don't read posts all the way through, they like to paraphrase people's shit, then jump up and down on people's CONCISE opinions. People like to get on here and say "PRINCE IS WACK" or "I DON'T SEE WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS ABOUT COMMON'S RESURRECTION?" and just heard of prince like 3 years ago, or JUST heard the Common record....ARE YOU SERIOUS???????? You cannot go back and understand Prince 1999 if you just heard it.....sorry. Do you know if that shit was said in BROAD DAYLIGHT in front of the wrong cat or a group of the wrong cats that the cat would get hurt? Like for real.... get hurt! How much WEIGHT does your opinion hold with saying shit like that. That why cats use the player to say shit like that. Its because they KNOW what time it is. We had something called "hip-hop bible", where you deserved to smacked by saying some dumb shit like "ONLY BUILT FOR CUBAN LINX IS WACK".......SMAAAAACK!!!!! You couldn't even hang out with cats anymore after that. Carry that shit to another website. You can't hang out here. I like debates and heated discussion like the next man, but be able to back your shit with some weighted statements. A few can, A LOT CANNOT.


I mean, cats may think I got it jumped off because of the Jay post, but its a general feeling across the boards. Its a gambit of different posts. I put a don't believe the hype post up here about a year ago, stating that DO NOT FEED INTO OKAYPLAYER HYPE WHEN IT COMES TO ANY ARTIST. Don't let hype determine if you like the cat, and if you don't like it, don't bring the artist down, or their skill level down. State your opinion about the joint, and step. Simple. Don't say, "well I don't think they are all that lyrically" or "the beats are okay" and in the same breathe turn around and praise all these underground cats that talk about all this supa dupa phenomenon shit that don't make no sense and don't rap on beat AT ALL, verses are 50 bars, NO HOOK, beat is all over the place just to say they are underground???? C'mon, what the fuck is that? Maybe I'm the one that is fucked up, maybe I can't get with it. Maybe the shit is over my head. Not sure, but the shit makes no sense to me at all.

Think for yourself. cats like to hate on "commercial" shit.....you can see a pattern from certain cats......."Lil Jon is wack" or "Down South is garbage".....and then turn around in the same breath and praise the majority of cats who wears a quote en quote backpack......

I know you seen it on here man. Maybe you haven't been on here that long, but I've on the boards for about 3 years now. Its been a constant problem on here. Maybe my contact with the industry at large sparked it as well, 'cause people on here swear up and down that the "underground" cats are FOR THE CULTURE, and the "commercial" cats are some egotistical assholes that don't have a clue about THE CULTURE at large. I used to think the same way, until I met a some "real emcees", that were pure assholes, and some "commercial" cats that were down to earth as hell. It depends on the person, for real.

A majority of the boards cry about hip-hop going back or close to the way it used to be, but if cats continue to be CLOSEMINDED when it comes to rap as a whole, not just one song, but the culture as a whole, it ain't never coming back.



Please Believe it.....

Peace

cats that talk about all this supa dupa phenomenon shit that don't make no sense and don't rap on beat AT ALL, verses are 50 bars, NO HOOK, beat is all over the place just to say they are underground???? C'mon, what the fuck is that? Maybe I'm the one that is fucked up, maybe I can't get with it. Maybe the shit is over my head. Not sure, but the shit makes no sense to me at all.

I see where you're coming from and I cosign with what you just said. I been on these boards for like four or five years and I have the same beef. I wasn't going at you necessarily but all the cats who came through but added nothing to the argument just to get a chance to have their shit archived under a post you made or to ask you questions about Jay.

I'm glad you took the time not only to post but to come back with replies and elaborate.

Hmmm....not a bad idea for a new post. Perhaps we do need to establish a hip-hop canon of dopeness in the archive. After which, any stupid statement such as "Cuban Linx is wack!" would get a deserved *SMACK* reply. Anybody care to post?

"in the same breathe turn around and praise all these underground cats that talk about all this supa dupa phenomenon shit that don't make no sense and don't rap on beat AT ALL, verses are 50 bars, NO HOOK, beat is all over the place just to say they are underground???? C'mon, what the fuck is that?"


and I say again... hahahhahahhahahhahahhaa
Yo Dog... I feel ya 100% That shit is hilarious how you put it... read that shit back to yourself and laugh... lmao

man i never did get this shit. i started listening to this college station a couple of years ago cause they claimed to play only "real underground hip hop" and i always thought that a good majority of the crap was wack. all these cats with wack beats rappin and rappin in the same monotone voice about nothing. it was kinda refreshing to hear something new but after a while i really got annoyed by it. i know and would bet like a $1000 that all the same cats who diss jay would run to the store and go cop the day it came out BUT when they around they fellow haters they will say "o they new k-otix is a classic" knowing they haven't even heard it because they know it wack (and yes, they are wack).

jay is the best out right now period. yall know it. yall just wish he was on some different shit...............or do you?

Ninth show these cats the light. I know plenty of underground cats around where I am from. They aren't even that big but they think they are saviours and are keeping it real but have no flow no skill or anything but refer to "intellectual" things so they are the shit. Most of them are white boys with dreds exactally like their fans. It is BS. Jay is more hiphop than the majority of the underground shit. How can people say because he gets love in the streets where hip hop was created that the man isn't real. But shit that was created in a library while reading John Donne and Shakespeare is.

personally, i'm with you regarding the notion that there ought to be hot ish and not hot ish and that's it.

however...

with the oversaturation of the airwaves by certain artists or certain types of hip hop, i think it's only natural for cats who prefer that which is ignored to rally 'round the stuff they like and help maintain the alleged industry-created rift between mainstream and underground.

it's human nature to pick a team and fight for them for all you're worth. some cats are a little more 'bout it than others. and those are the ones who keep beef alive.

Great post
hope the track makes it
make a post later if you find out it will make it before the album drops

------------------------------
I'm not like you and I cannot pretend. Cee Lo

I Will Not Lose! S.Carter

Shit on that Shit! ???

Don't compare me to you nigga you ain't this! Malice

Sit your five dollar ass down before I make change!
-Nino Brown

Where you at? If your mind is somewhere else then pick your ass up and take it over there and keep it company. I'm not having my time wasted by some half-ass, fish cake opponent today.
Samuel L. Jackson
...........Fresh..............

When you see you're playin' a man who feels naked without his lady, use her. Jump in there and take her, tease her, threaten her and he won't be able to think about his game anymore. That's when you make your real move.
.......Same as Above..........

You ready to be the king!
.......Same as Above..........

.

peace
Shiloh

i wish that ur manifesto was the end to that ova/unda argument but u know it will only provoke more shit. but n e way the post was ill, and this is why i come to okplayer.

on a personal note:
i can't front, the first time i heard of u was on god's stepson (still better than nas' original release) u definitely took me back to '93-'95 on that one.

been a jay fan for a min.
black album *waiting patiently*




The topic has been sent to doodoo face (emeryuwimana@hotmail.com)

"That sh!t about changing the world; you gotta snap out of it."

"...as sure as this, Earth is turning souls burning
in search of higher learning turning in every direction seeking direction..."

im ghost
1/wata

Excellent post, ninth.

You are so damn lucky man. AND I agree with everything you said.

that one day I can do the same thing with my rhymes in front of Jay as you did with your beats.

except, instead of 29 rhymes, he's gonna get 100 bars.

dead the fuck up.

VIDEO-TAY-TION





ROTATE-TO-THE-TION
Big Black Lincoln - All of You
Glenn Lewis - Back For More feat. Kardinal Offishall
Shaun Boothe aka Rikoshay - One By One
Kardinal Offishall - KO 101
Kardinal Offishall - Gas (produced by Nottz)
Tha Woodsmen - Dis-Go
IRS - T.R.A.C.K.S. Lament 1.5
Cassius Henry - The One feat. Freeway (produced Kanye West)

I feel you man. I come in here most of the time and be like WTF are these muthafuckas postin?!?

Niggas talk about you cause you like Dilla, sheeit even if my nigga wasn't from Detroit I would still have much respect for him. Im just fortunate to have him here because the music that he puts out as that hometown, backyard BBQ Detroit WGPR feel to it.


but what do I know. Im only a 30 year old cat that's been listening to hip hop since he was 7 years old.


right?

Gossiping Bitches responds:

http://www.gossipingbitches.com/phat_nuggets/viewtopic.php?t=188

wow...this kid Gentle Bitch said Illadelph came out in 1993......

1993??????

WOW....LOL

Now that's funny....

Your opinions means a whole bunch now.....


Can SOMEBODY help this cat.....


Please???


I'm gone....

Peace to Fistcuffs....

I can debate with him all day....

He knows how....

now this is the shit Im talkin about..... Cat did say 1993. (ummm sir did you mean Organix?) that nigga been watchin too many Back to the Future installments.

But on another note.

Good show on Fri here in Detroit.

you should of did Shorty on the Lookout. I was screamin the chorus all day night!


SHORTY HIT DA BRAKES TOO LATE!!!!!!! (lol)


yeah that's what's up!

what are you talking about?

bitch.


if you only knew.

Lol at this kid. Get your dates right.

It's not often I get to debate intelligently with a cat that I listen to and respect in the music business. Peace to Ninth and good luck on making the album.

wow, now that's what i call entertainment! hate is hate, but that shit was just funny to me!

peace~

T."The Beat Specialist"
| www.beatfanatic.com |
| www.slopfunkdust.com |
| www.littlebrothermusic.com |
| www.akrobatik.com |
| www.beatsociety.com |
| www.thefoundationlive.com |
| www.k-otix.com |

*Current Projects*

·JUSTUS LEAGUE - "Mixtape Volume I: NC State Of Mind" 2CD
·AKROBATIK - "Balance" LP
·AKROBATIK - "Balance // The Beat Fanatic Remix Album" LP
·AKROBATIK - "Untitled" 12"
·SUPASTITION - "Chain Letters" EP
·UNSEEN - "THE IDEA" LP
·GRAND AGENT - Master Thieves 01: Fish Outta Water : The Remixes" LP
·TRUTH ENOLA - "Untitled" LP
·TRUTH ENOLA FEAT. DE LA SOUL - "Untitled" 12"
·KAY OF THE FOUNDATION - "Untitled" LP
·BIG POOH OF LITTLE BROTHER - "Untitled" LP
·REEF THE LOST CAUZE - "Untitled" LP
·SLICK & ROSE - "Objects In The Mirror" LP
·DUTCH MASSIVE - "Untitled" LP
·SUREAL OF DOUBLE HELIX - "Gods Speed" LP

A solid post good points, but still a few issues of clarification.

I aggree with the Dope of Wack paradigm in which to view rap, but I still think that ceartin labels are okay.

For example, I enjoy Jay-Z's beats, I dance to them at the club, but at the same time when I am looking for a different level I need my "conscious" hip-hop. It does not mean I am hatin on other types its just that if I need some intellectual growth I like going to the boards and seeing who knows about any good conscious rap (see my post, Spiritual Hip-Hop).

So its all about hatin' vs. musical and lyrical prefrence, I get enough music about bitches and hoes, that i need something that talks about something, or is trying to speak to the human condition in a more authentic way. When a solid rhtym collides with a message thats my shit, (however just cuz the lyrics are "deep" does not mean the song is tight).

But thats just me, I like Jay-Z, I lke Ludacris, but I get frustrated when that seems to be the only hip-hop that the general world is exposed to, so what do I do?

I ain't hatin' I am just waiting for Hip-hop to be more of a movement than a form of entertainment.

"I ain't hatin' I am just waiting for Hip-hop to be more of a movement than a form of entertainment"

Honestly, Hip Hop as a whole will not be specifically what you are lookin for , especially as long as the industry sees it as the major money maker. Music, IS entertainment, but it can be used as a vehicle for movement.

I personally like having the choice of whether listening to Scarface or The Roots, yeah you may not catch the stuff you like on radio, but really, when did we start to put all our hopes and dreams on radio? The only thing the internet has done good is make the independant hip hop (so-called underground) easier to access, so I don't have to wait for that one college radio show to play it, I can cop it if I'm feelin it, from the store.

Problem is, that most people that listen to the radio ASSume that thats the only thing thats available to them. Its like having the age old discussion with your pops about hip hop.
He says, its only that shoot'em up bang bang, fuck a bitch, sell drugs and drive expensive cars and chains.
You know there is more to it than that, but how do you prove it other than sit HIM down in the living room and play ATCQ, PR and CL Smooth, Talib and MOs, LB, De La, like he did to YOU when you were 12 and he caught you listenin to NWA yell "fuck the police".
People will assume its not there if they haven't heard/seen it for themselves.

Hip Hop is like chili. there's a lot of ingredients in there, but to the naked eye you only see beans and meat and the sauce. Once you get that first taste though, you realize what else is in the mix. Each ingredient could stand on thier own, maybe, but its so much better when its in the pot.

Good point about the movement,

I guess what I am saying is that what attracted me to Hip-Hop was the music, what made Hip-Hop my main thing was the potential for change that it offered.

Right now what we are doing is the power of this art form, it creates discussion and debate and new thoughts, etc.

As far as the sterotypeing of rap that is going on that is what I have been fighting.

Right now I am organizing and leading various hip-hop services and educational lectures about the nature of Hip-Hop cultre. I tend to focus on the "positive, concious, spiritual, neo-soul" whatever label you want to put on it, rap. I enjoy showing people that might not know that there is more to hip-hop than bitches, blunts, and 40's.

But the question arsies of wether or not I am doing all of rap justice. When I lead a prayer service should I use "Theives in the Night" as well as some Jay-Z or P. Diddy thing? To me thats where I get troubled. I love hip-hop but to tie people into the social justice piece its hard for me to make room for the other varities.

Your thoughts......

some Jay-z, "this can't be life" or some P. Diddy (whats that song with Mario Winans?). If you tryin to get spiritual with it, you can pull out DMX and share that. That way you pull in the ones that reckonize THAT side of hip hop then show em the Blackstar type of hip hop.

Its like when a DJ breaks a new record to a "regular club crowd", he can't just finish playin the last Jay-z hit and drop the new joint on um, he need to ease it in, like maybe mix the instrumental in under some Fabolous(i feel so stupid spelling it wrong on purpose) then take it off, and later that night drop it in for one verse, then take it off, so by the next night/week its in the rotation and the crowd doesn't even realize that they have been blessed.

Or you could compare it to deflowering a virgin...can't shoove it all in, you gotta warm it up first, and have patience.

>Or you could compare it to deflowering a virgin...can't
>shoove it all in, you gotta warm it up first, and have
>patience.

You got me rollin with laughter on that one. Good heads up, it made me realize how I tend to limit the radio friendly artist as haveing nothing to say.

I have dropped Blackstar all over the place,

I did a servicfe this past Sunday and I used Talib "Get By", got some great feedback, but also lots of beef over the fact that the song said shit and penis in it. I did not even think about it when I choose it to be played. I feel like the whole thing was tainted because some people could not get over the laungaue. It made me think how many people become isolated from this art form simply because of the language thing. Frustrating yet understandable all at the same time.

Fuck everything else I hope Nas heard God Stepson and will reach out to you to do at least six joints on his next opus!

Hell Jay know who hot and you dat dude!

... who do YOU think is the GOAT? lol

Now, back to the rock I crawled out from under.

§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§

Gotta love the !

"when a boy writes off the world, it's done with sloppy, misspelled words/ If a girl writes off the world, it's done in cursive. i'm searching for a cure."
~Sage Francis

"thug love on the corner of the walgreens/lookin at me like i'm just another square saltine."
~Slug

§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§¤¤¤¤§

really *really* needs to be retired.

even in mockery.

yes, that is all i have to contribute to this conversation.

Thanx 9th. I've been sayin the same shit to everyone I know for years. Hopefully the heads on here will listen to you.

And I hope at least one of your beats makes Jays album. I can't wait to hear it. Good luck in the future. I hope you blow up and become a top producer in the game.

Peace

Thank you for this. There was a period between 94-98 when I wasn't in the hip hop loop and when I started to get back into it I noticed something wasn't right,it wasn't hip hop anymore(at least what I saw on TV). I didn't see good hip hop getting put on TV or radio as much not to mention the separation of real/pop hip hop. I blame Puffy personally,I think that Puffy changed the game up and made that more crossover friendly,pop brand of hip hop with the R&B hook,you know,the whole Puff formula. And then the videos changed up.

You're right I remember and want to get back to where it was ALL hip hop.

>WITH NO PAPER.....IT IS NOT A MYTH......
>HE ATTACKS THE MICROPHONE LIKE HE IS PERFORMING....

that's fuckin impressive, and something that i'm gonna keep in mind when i hear the cd

>WHAT THE FUCK IS EVERYBODY GONNA DO WHEN THE MUSIC OKP
>PRAISE BECOMES MAINSTREAM.....

hopefully for all you cats this shit does go mainstream so you can all make the big $$$! hahaha i know you guys make the music out of love, not just to make hella cash. but people NEED to hear this "underground" stuff; as an example "the listening" is one of the best albums (of any genre) i've heard in a while. And the people that I've played it for who had never heard of Little Brother get HOOKED on it. I feel that if this music does go mainstream (which I'd like to see), then as long as the people like the music for the music, and not just to jump on the bandwagon, then everything will be righteous.... peace

don't trip people. just listen to and appreciate the music that makes you feel good. no need to label or brand anything. if you like it, you like it. bottom line.

having said that, i do not like 99% of the rap i hear on the radio. i do not like it for what it says, represents and stands for. it has nothing to do with the fac that it is on the radio. that's not what makes me not like it. it just doesn't vibe with my soul.

shit...i don't like 90% of the rap i hear that's not on the radio. most of that shit's wack too.

again...just listen to what you like and what vibes w/your soul. open your mind and expand soul. peace

First off, as an artist I really appreciate and respect your insight on the whole subject matter. However, I haven't seen the other side like you. I'm just a fan.

I agree that it is impossible to categorize hip hop into who's underground or commercial or whatever as a basis for support of the artist.

Where I disagree is,
there are plenty of DOPE mc's that bore the shit outta me with
their rhymes. LL is a perfect exapmle. Dude is one of the nicest
freestyle mcs of all time. To me, the choices he's made to make himself marketable make him wack. He's compromised himself to the fullest extent. Ability to rhyme does not make you you dope in my opinion. Knocking off 4 songs in a day doesn't constitute
dope either. What makes an mc dope to my, is continuity,
and content. A Perfect example of dope mc's to me are De La Soul.
Rakim is another.

I understand where you're coming from. It's definitely a gray area issue, because mc's themselves change. (evolve as they like to call it.) But every fan is a fan for their own reasons. It's difficult to dictate to us backpackers that just because mc's are nice with delivery, and write like crazy, that we should respect em. Just because Jay gave you a shot, doesn't mean that I thought Blueprint 2 was substantial. Its all in each's perception. Peace 9th.

this could very well be the bridge that hip hop needs.
this could be the best he's ever had and will mos def show us what a talent he is.
i always looked at hip hop as good vs. bad.
jay-z and the producers he is working with are good. the best.

"How can I prove we're live? PENIS!" -Kent Brockman

The Fellowship of the Fins:
absence, Al_Tru_Ist, Drewmathic, Ir_Cuba, LML, Robert, wonderl33t, xenophobia

Illgaluminati - Our guns say "REPLICA" on the barrel.
http://dotmatrixfilms.vze.com/

What should listeners and artists do to save hip-hop from this now split in the music, to make it a more balanced form of music? Every time I read these posts on how fucked up, and killed off hip-hop is, the future looks bleak. I guess all music genres goes through some bullshit...It seems that hip-hop is the next contestant.

i can be a part of history...

_______________________________________________________________________________________



my is a beast.

i mean, at LEAST a snare.


if you only knew.

>PUBLIC ENEMY TALKED ABOUT OVERTHROWING THE AMERICAN
>GOVERNMENT IN SOME SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION, ON EVERY RECORD.

every record as in every album? that's not the same as repeating yourself on half the songs on the album. PE doesn't talk as much about overthrowing the government as Jay talks about crime, but anyway...

>Jay grew up in Marcy. That man knows about street life. He
>has expanded on certain topics here and there, but DAMN, I
>DON'T WANNA HEAR JAY TALK ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT POST '96
>BACKPACKERS DEEM TO BE REAL.

What do post-96 backpackers "deem to be real"? Because a lot of these people bought Little Brother albums. So, you're saying if Jay-Z did a song like "Speed", you would throw his CD out the window? You know, a song sort of like "This Can't Be Life"? LOL.

>Sorry.
>
>Just like I don't wanna hear THE ROOTS TALK ABOUT CARS,
>although I know they own some fat whips......but I guess
>some OKP's think that they don't 'cause they are REAL
>HIP-HOPPERS.

Thought's first car reference that I can recall was in 96, when he bragged about being a "Land whipper".

>Anyways, let's fast forward to a couple of weeks ago.....
>
>
>So I'm find myself sitting in Baseline Studios, NYC, in
>front of the "devil"....let OKP tell it, playing beats.....

Who on OKP ever called Jay "the devil"?

>
>I played 29 beats.....he listened to every one.
>
>HE DID.
>
>Not an A&R, not an assistant, not his manager....
>
>Jay-Z DID.
>
>Every beat.
>
>I went to several quote en quote "underground, keepin it
>real labels" and the A&R's was like, "yeah man, I'm gonna go
>through these and pick out some for(fill in your favorite
>"real emcee")

How many "underground keep it real" labels have A&R staffs anyway? I mean, clearly you aren't talking about Stone's Throw here. Is there a Vice President of A&R at Def Jux? Who are you talking about?

And besides that, if you meet an underground cat in person, he's likely to be way more open to listen to beats from some unknown guy than Jay is. You think if I ran up on Jay at Club 40/40 with a beat CD he would sit down with me and listen to 29 beats? Ha.

>Not Jay....
>
>Probably Rap's richest, most power figure to date took the
>time out to listened to a new producer who got a couple of
>shots in mags hear and there.

who produced a four mic album, pushed near 40,000 on an indie, and is currently on a national tour. plus you did a song with his man kayne. i don't think you fit the prototype of "underground producer" in the sense that, say, Blockhead does.

It would be different if you had no album out and ran up on Jay as he passed through Marcy with a Discman talking about "Listen to my beat CD, dog". Someone set up a meeting. The fact that you got to sit in Bassline and meet with Jay inherently seperates you from the category of "average underground producer".

>A couple of days later, we recorded. ONE SONG.
>
>He took 4 takes on what some so called "skilled" cats take 4
>days to do......
>
>WITH NO PAPER.....IT IS NOT A MYTH......

What makes you think he didn't write the song and memorize it in the "couple of days" between your initial meeting and your recording session?

>Ghost talks about wallabees ON EVERY RECORD....

Again, Ghost doesn't talk about Wallabees in his discography as much as Jay has talked about ice in his discography. We can start counting references if you want. LOL.

lol

|if you only knew|

And here we go.....


Its gotta be one......


Once again, my initial post was to try to get cats on here to understand that the whole under/over split is killing the game,
and everybody needs to be openminded, but yet opinionated with concise statements....

Secondly.........
I would never run up on ANY man in a club setting or dinner setting, especially his and ask him to hear a beat CD. Cats got lives kid, why would any man wanna run up to somebody's table in a club and ask him to hear beats when he's probably either eating steak and potatoes, or chillin' with his family doin' some grown man shit......approach him Marcy, would YOU approach an man in Marcy about anything????? Would you approach Juvi in the Nolia??
HELL NAW!!!

Its a time and place for everything, no doubt. I got bashed on here for approaching El Da Sensei with a CD, after a concert, in NC, with NOBODY bothering that cat(anybody remember). Cats on OKP BASHED me saying get over it....he might of had a bad day, or, he this and he that. WORD UP. I brushed it off, and he was not the only one. I used that as a stepping stone, though, plus he has not been the only cat to do so.

C'mon my man, don't be so literal, when I said every record, I mean that is the basis of a persons career. We all know that PE is a black-activist group slash rap group......which is cool with me. Yeah Flava Flav did I can't do nothin for ya man, but what about the other 50 plus songs PE did. Hell, every ALBUM cover looks like a black nationalist rally poster, let alone the songs........

AND NO, he didn't hear about me through the mags, nor the source......c'mon, AN INDIE COUNT???? See, this is what I'm talkin' about as far as closemindedness. Cats don't live day to day like we do on OKP. We look in mags, read articles, look for the new dope cats, and really DIG for stuff. Some cats don't have that kind of time. Case in point, you think Jay should of heard about me, MACEO from De La just learned about Little Brother last week(for real).....and he fits into our quote en quote "catergory" of music. Cats get real busy after a certain point, and alot of cats don't even READ Source mag. There are still some hardcore hip-hop fans that still don't know who we are, then they have to go back and find the small, black and white pic of us in the mag. Then they say "oh, I didn't see that".

Most indies got A&R's......you named two labels that so in house, I would not try to shake the foundation they've made for themselves.......

SPEED??? In speed we talk about having JOBS and trying to rhyme and do beats and school. Let's see.....

SCHOOL
JOBS
MONEY PROBLEMS????


When is last time that guy had to deal with any of that. So goes your music, so goes your life. That's for most rappers. So therefore, if you are in court all the time, then well.......

I like basketball, football, any kind of sport,
But I can't play'em anyway, I'm always in court....


LOL!!!!!!!!!!

For real...I ain't no rapper, but that's how it goes. We talked about our lives. David banner talks about his. Snoop talks about his. TALK ABOUT YOUR LIFE.....that's what rap is built on, bringing what happens in your life to the forefront and doing it better than everybody else. Simple.

C'mon chief....a debate is a debate, and I see you points. I'm just trying to get OKP on the same wave length, as far as cats stating opinions without malice, getting rid of the internet thugs on this site, letting cats break up good debates with stupid remarks, being just flat closeminded, shit like that. This is one of the top music forums on the net, I don't want the powers that be to pull the plug cause cats can't act right....


Feel Me?

Fistcuffs...where you at kikko?????

if cats could argue/debate like that on here all the time, we'd have the best discussion board around. well, it kinda still is the best by default (b/c the other discussion boards either suck or are so cliqueish new voices can't get in).

but on the real, i think everyone on here wants to hear dope raps...the thing about why people are hard on Jay is b/c every album is crazily promoted so you hear it whether you're a fan or not AND jay doesn't really change that much from album to album, so it's like *trumpets blowing* "Jay's album is HERE...and it's exactly the same as his last record, except he changed the beats and the song titles". lately, if you listen to his acapellas, he's even been flowing the same regardless of what the beat is doing. you do remixes, if you can get ahold of some jay acapellas, check em out and tell me I'm wrong. No real stylistic change, no conceptual variety = backlash. Too much change = backlash too. It's a tough medium. The only cats to really balance it out (and they STILL piss a few people off) is Kast.

> well, it kinda
>still is the best by default (b/c the other discussion
>boards either suck or are so cliqueish new voices can't get
>in).

I agree, but you know that all the other boards say the same thing about OKP right?

you make it sound like i'm being unreasonable. LOL.

my thing is, it seemed like you were belittling PE's discography in an attempt to defend Jay's, even though you probably love PE as much as Jay. PE takes quite a bit of bashing anyway, so I couldn't really let that "PE only talks about overthrowing the government" thing slide. Don't worry, I got your overall point, it's just that the PE and Ghostface comments begged to be responded to (hence my title "let me state the obvious").

as far as the under/over split goes, it is more like a gun-toting rapper v. no gun holding rapper split (the gun-toting side being limited to guns used for killing black people, thus putting revolutionary gun-toters like dead prez on the roots' side of the equation). slum made it to the no gun holding rapper side b/c...surprise, surprise...there's not much in the way of gunplay on fantastic vol. 2. jay himself has been cutting down on the gun references/album body counts lately (blueprint barely has any). conversely, talib added one gun song to his repertoire ("gun music") perhaps in an attempt to lure the thug loving masses. so, a middle ground is being formed, where a few less people will die per album. lol.

I'm right here son. LOL

>I got bashed on here for approaching El Da Sensei with a CD
That was you? LOL! I remember that post. I can't believe it. Cats was attacking you over that but it's cool though. You're getting yours now so you can't be mad.

big ups, lots of enlightenment going on around here. i myself rarely check the industry mags, rather i look in the record store to see whats there. aside from the fact the internet keeps me updated (somewhat)

but you are absolutely right when you say cats need to write from their lives, from the heart, thats where ALL timeless writing comes from (in any format)

however i don't see whats rude with giving somebody a cd when you happen to be in the same place/ same time, i slide everybody my disc when its an opportunity!

peace and respect

http://gentlejones.com

In case nobody noticed, the networking potential here is fuckin' incredible.

Even if Jay IS retiring, with him building a new label, he's gonna need producers to do tracks for his acts. Enter 9th.

Congrats again...

Because your not feeling someone doesn't mean they're wack as fuck, y'know? There's plenty of artists I don't feel like that, and I'm not going to spring $14.99 on'em just for the fact.

I said plenty of times that I don't really feel Jay-Z's albums like that...never said he was wack, or that I didn't like him, just that his albums aren't all that...no big deal, and I explained why I don't like his albums too tough.

I'm sure, by now, this will prolly cause a riot the way I've seen some steady cockriding being done on here. In all honesty, from the bottom of my heart, I hope 9th gets his beat on there, 'cause Jay needs some good beats...it could better the both of them.

*throws diamond up in the sky
Its young Hoooov! No for real that was a good post it needs to archived and dusted accordingly...now I see Jay Z in a different light...but he still looks like Yoshi to me. lol peace

and battled some of these nukkas...

i'm glad you got a shot

i've more to say but don't feel like typing :)

btw they mentioned you today in the music section of the Philadelphia Daily News as a being involved with the project along with the other big names.

You out there, playa.

Its that Simple... hence the root word COMMERCE (to sell)

I love the fact that you broke down everything I usually argue to heads about, and how its all about being either dope or wack... however you have to realize that levels of dopeness and wackness depend on the mind of the listener and their agenda... A revolutionary brother that is extremely anti ignorance may think that 50 cent is garbage... a very violent brother may think J-Live is soft... a white boy with no deep root in our culture may think that nobody can touch Eminem... its all relative, which is a great thing about our music...

However, the problem comes about when 99% of what we hear on Radio and see on tv is Jay-Z or people with similar topics in their rhymes... that is both the fault of the artist, and media, as well as fans for requesting or puting up with this blatent disregard for the music as a whole...

good luck with the track and keep doing it

cats like Kanye West, cats who blur the line between industry made up terms.

music is music. Just cause the next cats likes some shit means you gotta hate it...damn. Some things will never change.

that's what i don't understand.

obviously, you perceive some cats' dogmatic, polarized view of hiphop as distasteful.

but what is it hurting, exactly?

is it hurting the drive to create? whose? obviously not jay-z's, who is one of the biggest targets in this whole thing.

is it hurting the industry, sales?

is it hurting underground (as in, ungsigned) artists? (if so, the "conscious" ones, or the "thuggish" ones, or both?)

or is it a victimless crime?


--------------------------------------------------------------

BWG's top five albums of 2003:

5. Prefuse 73 - "One Word Extinguisher"
4. Lightning Bolt - "Wonderful Rainbow"
3. The Mars Volta - "Deloused in the Comatorium"
2. MF Doom as Viktor Vaughn - "Vaudeville Villain"
best album of the year:
1. Starflyer 59 - "Old"


illgaluminati - part of a global terror network

Because that is the question of a newbie...

for your information, this division of the rap music alienates EVERYONE and creates animosity on both sides of the spectrum... it turns into an "US vs THEM" situation which it should NOT BE...

but otherwise good shit.

a lot of us fell for that shit..like dummies.

we grow and learn tho..fuck it.

imma cop a jay album for the first time since...since..

damn its been that long..

but im interested in the black album...more than ive been in a jay album in a minute.

of the okay boards, so it seems

he started taking things too personally...

--------

Okay Photographers Meet Here>


--------
Some of you say, "Joy is
greater than sorrow," and
others say, "Nay, sorrow is
the greater."

But I say unto you, they are
inseparable. -- The
PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran

"Will the songs make it, who knows....."
---you made it, alright
...Little Brother videos on bet/mtv by next year!

Congratulations. You've been throwin up remixes around here for a while, I knwo I have a couple somewhere on the 'puter.

I feel you on that over ground/underground shit .

Other than that, I'm just replyin to be apart of history...

peace

I'm wit you. sometimes you just gotta ignore these younger "fans" who woke up a couple of years ago and decided to pick a side i almost take it personal sometimes, but i do admit, for a while i fell into the trap, so in a way i dont blame some people. i think it involves a certain level of maturity about this music.

if you came up during a certain period in hip hop history you had the opportunity to see it evolve, but i think one of the biggest differences between now and say.... 94-96 (good years in hip-hop, bad on my got-damn pockets) is that both sides of the spectrum was droppin dope music "commercial" and "underground".

i think some fans today will support an underground artist regardless of the fact that it's wack! i was a senior at a St.Louis high school (on my way to Jackson State) when Reasonable Doubt dropped and he considered one of those underground "New York Niggas".

A lot of cats where im from didnt feel him until he switched it up a little bit. People really underestimate dude's talent. With that said.... to all you OKP's out there, let me tell you... i heard every joint 9th spoke of (all 29 then some) and God willin, if this song sees the light of day, a lotta cat's will have a new view..... Try to open your mind.... just try... try.... just..... try.

Cuzzin B aka Gordon Shumway Jr.

Yo 9th, wanted to take a second of your time to thank you for the post and to thank you for sharing your views. I get so tired of all the damn complaining and hating most folks seem to do on these boards, to the point where I lose the interest in being involved with the site alltogether. But folks like yourself spitting real words remind me why I started coming to this site back in '99. Keep on.
Also wanted to spit real quick, I enjoy the Little Brother album, looking forward to the next one. Ain't picked up the God's Stepson yet, but real soon.
Peace

"Your current frequencies of understanding outweigh that which has been given for you to understand." Saul Williams

"If I don't go to jail, words gonna flock."

damn i love this site! where else can u get some real insite from the artists and fans. thanks for your insite 9th! like you i tend to fall into the shit like everybody else, categorizin hiphop tryin to separte the real/underground from the fake/commericial. but i also know good music when i hear it...and as much as i try hatin' on Jay sometimes I cant even front when i hear some new music from the man. he's dope point blank, one of the greatest! so i appreciate your post and everybody else on hear voicin their opinions. we gotta see the big picture in this hiphop/culture...stay grounded and try to understand where everybody else is comin from. thats the beauty of this music man!

>Wow......I've sat back and watch everyone either bash or
>praise Jay-Z in some form or fashion, as far as his new
>song, direction for the album, etc. etc......
>
>Well, I thought I'd wait until everyone got out their
>"opinions" about the song and their take on his career
>direction before I start sheddin' some "truth" to the
>matter.....
>
>Hopefully, and I stress hopefully this would help change
>some minds about the perception of who exactly Jay-Z is as
>an artist and most importantly, an emcee.....
>
>So, before I begin let me preface this spill by saying, if
>you are a closeminded, new wave, I just learned about
>hip-hop last week cat, this post is not for you. There are
>a million and a half posts that you can reply to on OKP
>other than this one that will suit your needs......
>
>
>Here goes....
>
>I first heard about Jay-Z back in the summer of 1996. The
>first joint I heard was "Dead Presidents". I heard that
>joint, Wu-Wear, Fakin Jax, and Semi-Automatic in the same
>damn day(what a day). Luckily, I was blessed to witness
>hip-hop BEFORE the overground, underground split/big bang of
>1996, when rap was rap, no matter if you talked about money,
>drugs, hoes, mics, trees, sidewalks, shoelaces, WHATEVER.
>As long as you beats was dope, and you could ride a beat,
>you made it, which even this day, CATS STILL CANNOT DO IT.
>Backpackers was called backpackers because they wore
>backpacks like Black Moon. Most of the time, you didn't
>wanna find out what was in cat's backpacks........(weed,
>guns, crack, whatever....anybody that can remember, can I
>get a witness???)
>
>Anyways, Jay dropped Reasonable Doubt, and niggas went
>CRAZY. It was a dope album amongst the Ironman's, Atliens,
>Stakes is High's, BRandLife's, Illadelph'sand whatever else
>came out in the fall of 1996. That's when dope shit dropped
>every week. The record stores KEPT cats BROKE, buying 3 to
>4 CD's at a time. Then, the underground/overground bullshit
>started, and through EVERYBODY for a loop.
>
>Even me. I got caught up in the bullshit. First it was
>called Shiny suits vs. Real hip-hop or some other bullshit.
>Then it changed from Commercial vs. Underground.
>
>Commercial vs. Underground.
>
>Wow.
>
>That is some of the biggest BULLSHIT ever invented. I don't
>know who started this shit, but it killed hip-hop.
>Nevertheless, I fell into the shit like everybody else. I
>took sides, like everybody else. I took the "underground"
>side. I became a post 1996 backpacker....not a cat who wore
>a backpack with illegal substances in it.....shit, I didn't
>wear a backpack at all, unless it was for class.
>
>Needless to say, between 1996 and 2003 Jay-Z dropped 7 more
>joints, from In My Lifetime, to BP2. I began to feed into
>the "underground" way of life even more. If you talked
>about money, girls, sex, clubs, jewelry, I HATED YOU, no
>matter what.
>No matter if your beat was dope, you rhymed ON BEAT, the
>song made you dance(hell, that's 85% of rap music BEFORE
>'96).....na, FUCK ALL THAT, you were commercial, and I hated
>you.
>
>If you anything opposite of that, you were "REAL" or
>"UNDERGROUND", and I followed you to the end of the earth,
>like the Soundbombing's and all those joints they sold on
>hiphopsite.com and sandboxautomatic.com. Every night, me
>and fellow OKP bang97xxx would be on line looking for the
>new "underground" shit.....
>
>Until....
>
>The release of FANTASTIC VOL. 2....
>
>
>FUCKED ME UP.
>
>THEN I WOKE UP.
>
>All of the things that I hated soooooo much about subject
>matter in lyrics, good ol' Jay Dee, Baatin, and T3 talked
>about in EVERY SONG. They called women bitches and hoes,
>they talked about the going to the club, and might I add,
>they talked about women being bitches and hoes.....
>
>Over dope beats....
>
>WAS I THE ONLY ONE TO CATCH THAT?
>
>A couple of people did, but there were soooooo many cats
>that didn't for some strange reason. In the midst of this
>under/over bullshit, here's a group that did both. They had
>hooks, they rode beats, they weren't preachy, they just HAD
>FUN on the songs and that's it.
>
>It made you feel good.
>
>Everybody else was either in the club ALL Night, or freedom
>fighting for Mumia...
>
>Then came Neo-Soul.
>
>JESUS CHRIST.
>
>That's a WHOLE 'NOTHER POST right there.
>
>Talk about some industry made up shit. Some of the rappers
>that okp cats praise for doing that quote en quote type of
>hip-hop HATE THAT TERM....I MEAN....SOME OF YOUR FAVORITE
>EMCEES......
>
>Oh yeah CONSCIOUS RAP???? These SAME EMCEES HATE THAT TERM
>TOO...
>
>I know what you mean....its shocking like a muthphucka. We
>feed into the under/over split that the industry created
>just like the 12 year old's feed into 106 and park. When I
>first heard one of my FAVORITE artist say "fuck that
>neo-soul conscious rap shit", I was floored. I was like,
>"but aren't you neo-soul and conscious, AND underground
>might I add???"
>
>Nope, sure wasn't....
>
>Anyway, so then ?uest puts up a post called, The smartest
>backpacker(see OKP archives), and that made me curious on
>how divided the music world was....was it some made up shit,
>or was it actually true???
>
>Made up like a muthafucker.
>
>I fell for it like a dummy. Growing up in 1982-1996 age of
>hip-hop, I should of known better.
>
>Shortly after, the Listening was born.
>
>One cat on here said that it was same
>underground/neo-soul/conscious/mainstream shit he hears all
>the time....
>
>I told Tay, okay.....we are on to something....
>
>
>STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE
>ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.
>
>No matter WHAT you talk about. Cats say that Jay-Z talks
>about the same thing every record. Okay, what the fuck does
>TRIBE talk about differently from record to record???? What
>about Gangstarr??? What about Black Moon???? WHAT ABOUT THE
>ROOTS???
>
>If you are FREEING MUMIA on your first record, then chances
>are you will be doing it on EVERY RECORD YOU PUT OUT.
>
>Redman makes a reference to WEED ON EVERY RECORD.....
>
>So what changes???
>
>The beats of the record changes the complexity of the album,
>YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE, NO MATTER WHAT.
>
>You mind a TOPIC here and there to elaborate on, BUT THIS IS
>RAP MUSIC...
>
>PUBLIC ENEMY TALKED ABOUT OVERTHROWING THE AMERICAN
>GOVERNMENT IN SOME SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION, ON EVERY RECORD.
>
>Jay grew up in Marcy. That man knows about street life. He
>has expanded on certain topics here and there, but DAMN, I
>DON'T WANNA HEAR JAY TALK ABOUT ANY OF THAT SHIT POST '96
>BACKPACKERS DEEM TO BE REAL.
>
>Sorry.
>
>Just like I don't wanna hear THE ROOTS TALK ABOUT CARS,
>although I know they own some fat whips......but I guess
>some OKP's think that they don't 'cause they are REAL
>HIP-HOPPERS.
>
>Anyways, let's fast forward to a couple of weeks ago.....
>
>
>So I'm find myself sitting in Baseline Studios, NYC, in
>front of the "devil"....let OKP tell it, playing beats.....
>
>
>I played 29 beats.....he listened to every one.
>
>HE DID.
>
>Not an A&R, not an assistant, not his manager....
>
>Jay-Z DID.
>
>Every beat.
>
>I went to several quote en quote "underground, keepin it
>real labels" and the A&R's was like, "yeah man, I'm gonna go
>through these and pick out some for(fill in your favorite
>"real emcee")
>
>Not Jay....
>
>Probably Rap's richest, most power figure to date took the
>time out to listened to a new producer who got a couple of
>shots in mags hear and there.
>
>An hour.
>29 beats.
>At least 2 minutes to every beat.
>
>After which, he asked me, "damn man, what's your story?"
>
>I gave him a quick run down of where I was from and so forth
>and who my group was. Young Guru already had the Listening,
>had it the first day it came out, but never let Jay hear it.
> So did Kanye.
>
>A couple of days later, we recorded. ONE SONG.
>
>He took 4 takes on what some so called "skilled" cats take 4
>days to do......
>
>WITH NO PAPER.....IT IS NOT A MYTH......
>
>HE ATTACKS THE MICROPHONE LIKE HE IS PERFORMING....
>
>I have been in some studios with cats that cannot do that
>WITH PAPER.
>
>That is some hard shit to do, to come up with a rhyme in
>your head, and spit it like you knew it for years......
>
>DAMMIT PEOPLE LISTEN!!!!!!!
>
>Will the songs make it, who knows.....
>
>All I know is the game, t.v., and the industry has fucked up
>the minds of this new generation of hip-hop fans.
>
>There are dope cats that OKP's bash on the regular just
>because they get radio play, and praise the ones that
>don't....
>
>
>WHAT THE FUCK IS EVERYBODY GONNA DO WHEN THE MUSIC OKP
>PRAISE BECOMES MAINSTREAM.....if the industry sees that a
>Little Brother, or a Five Dees, or a J-Rawls, or a Aesop
>Rock can sell millions, that WILL be Mainstream hip-hop.
>Then, EVERY MAJOR LABEL WILL TRY THEIR DAMNNEST TO FIND A
>COPY CAT.
>
>So, before you label somebody the rap antichrist, or say
>somebody is not doing it for the culture, check yourself....
>
>Jay gave me shot...
>
>some of your favorite rappers didn't
>
>on the real....
>
>WAKE THE FUCK UP OKAYPLAYER....ON SOME LAWRENCE FISHBURNE
>SCHOOL DAZE SHIT...........
>
>
>Oh yeah, I rocked the fuck out of my Okayplayer shirt at
>baseline. Jay said...."damn, I was just on there this
>morning".
>
>
>Aight, everybody take turns bashing me across the head....
>
>LOL!!!!!
>PEACE!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Ghost talks about wallabees ON EVERY RECORD....




chew on this......(from other board)
just wanna hear your responce to this text....


Jay Z's beats are weak, they are stripper beats, overpolished and lacks MAD creativity.
Little brother's album was premadonna, God's Son was also premadonna. Shit's solid, but none of these niggas got any right to be talkin bout "REAL" hip hop when NONE OF THESE GROUPS, from jay z, the roots, or little brother got a dj with any dope skills, straight the FUCK UP.

Read that shit again...

All of their djs they know, will get ripped on stage, their beats will get overpowered, and in the long run, if the battle was recorded, it'd be some classic shit where the real heads didn't even get recognized.

His story was the classic case of "underground kid" turned mainstream because a mainstream nigga gave him a shot. Please man, money makes people act funny.

He is right on one thing, there is only 2 types of hip hop, fresh and wack, what he doesn't understand is, jay z or his group wouldn't be in my category of DOPE SHIT. Most of my dope shit would date before 1997 (not much even) and the other dope shit isn't even filed under hip hop, which is a BAD THING.

Listen to MHE's GASLAMP KLILLERS, 95% of that shit is HIP HOP by producers that aren't filed under hip hop, and probably not even know, but that dirt is mad hard.

Hip hop today is split in 2 categories...

Mainstream and Underground

of those 2 categories...

Mainstream cats all make dance shit, and underground heads either TRY to make dance shit, but fail miserably, and the other side exploits the "underground" sound and has no sense of musicality.

In other words, 95% of hip hip is wack, regardless of category. There are few innovators, and there are even fewer DOPE ASS djs that are apart of groups in mainstream or underground.

The best way to use music as a communicator is to keep it vocaless, or keep the vocals to a MINIMUM on an album, because words have a tendancy to fuck up the mood, unless of course they are using their voice as apart of the music, tonally.. Listen to all this weak ass hip hop now, forumlas, from underground to mainstream, no one is original, because niggas STILL FUSSIN BOUT WHO BE DA BEST.

Jiggy beats will get fucked up in my domain, any "dj" in any group mainstream or underground group will get fucked up in my domain, and emcees, well, I dont like words in my music, so I could gives a fuck.

Hip Hop is WACK cause there are no more djs with skills in it, that is the undeniable fact. Where the freshest scratch djs are at, is where the dopest hip hop is at, remember that.

Right as I'm about to end this.... Inside Edition is on now, saying "Ashanti is posin in provactoive clothing in MAXIM's next issue" Isn't ashanti down with that hip hop with jarule? WORD, go get that money LITTLE BROTHER!

this was pointless to paste in.

fuck him.

YO 9TH I love this post and this debate you got going on...I've been thinking about this underground/commercial ish for the longest now...And It's about time that someone breaks it down and explains it the way you just did.

I strongly feel how you feel. I always find myself arguing with my boys about this topic because they know Jay-Z is dope but don't want to give him credit... due to his commercial status..I can't wait to show them this post and let the truth be heard.

i've been gathering thoughts on this post for a couple days now...this is some 'real' shit here...


>Until....
>
>The release of FANTASTIC VOL. 2....
>
>
>FUCKED ME UP.
>
>THEN I WOKE UP.
>
>All of the things that I hated soooooo much about subject
>matter in lyrics, good ol' Jay Dee, Baatin, and T3 talked
>about in EVERY SONG. They called women bitches and hoes,
>they talked about the going to the club, and might I add,
>they talked about women being bitches and hoes.....
>
>Over dope beats....
>
>WAS I THE ONLY ONE TO CATCH THAT?

^damn...i thought i was the only one to catch that- so i guess you wasn't. 2000-2001 was a very inspiring time for me also. a lot of "inspirational" records came out in this time period. Fantastic Vol 2, Reflection Eternal, shit The Blueprint, just to name a few.

Welcome to Detroit! Petestrumentals...

fuckin' Quasimoto too!! but i dont think everyone agrees with that one though. but still, a lot of hot shit was in my ear during this time period.


>A couple of people did, but there were soooooo many cats
>that didn't for some strange reason. In the midst of this
>under/over bullshit, here's a group that did both. They had
>hooks, they rode beats, they weren't preachy, they just HAD
>FUN on the songs and that's it.
>
>It made you feel good.
>
>Everybody else was either in the club ALL Night, or freedom
>fighting for Mumia...

^fun = the key...

i agree with you there...that's something i had to LEARN. because this "underground keep it real- fuck commercial bullshit" had me fucked up(sub-consciously) for a long time. but that is what hip hop is about. having fun with what you love to do. right? whats the purpose in being angry and screaming and losing your temper on tracks? but i still think it's cool if it's appropriate. yeah i use to do that shit...but cats like the fact they dont feel like whoopin' somebody's ass after listening to my shit- or even feeling depressed for that matter. i learned to take that sadness and depression and have fun with it.

over dope beats...


>
>Then came Neo-Soul.
>
>JESUS CHRIST.
>
>That's a WHOLE 'NOTHER POST right there.
>
>Talk about some industry made up shit. Some of the rappers
>that okp cats praise for doing that quote en quote type of
>hip-hop HATE THAT TERM....I MEAN....SOME OF YOUR FAVORITE
>EMCEES......
>
>Oh yeah CONSCIOUS RAP???? These SAME EMCEES HATE THAT TERM
>TOO...
>
>I know what you mean....its shocking like a muthphucka. We
>feed into the under/over split that the industry created
>just like the 12 year old's feed into 106 and park. When I
>first heard one of my FAVORITE artist say "fuck that
>neo-soul conscious rap shit", I was floored. I was like,
>"but aren't you neo-soul and conscious, AND underground
>might I add???"
>
>Nope, sure wasn't....

^what the fuck is a conscious rapper...and what do they talk about? why is it so 'bad' to be one? i've failed to figure this one out. i just don't get it. guess i'm slow or something...

is Kweli the only one??


>
>Anyway, so then ?uest puts up a post called, The smartest
>backpacker(see OKP archives), and that made me curious on
>how divided the music world was....was it some made up shit,
>or was it actually true???
>
>Made up like a muthafucker.
>
>I fell for it like a dummy. Growing up in 1982-1996 age of
>hip-hop, I should of known better.

^me too...i never really thought of it being some made up shit. this shit is wild. what really makes commercial/undergroud separate? it's all music...it's all hip hop. when i hear "commercial"- i automatically think "wack". and "underground" always was something i knew i wanted to hear because...well, i really dont know why. because i've heard underground shit that's wacker then...let's say for example- Nelly or even Ali's record. (yeah i know that's my opinion) but shit, the whole reason for wanting a 'record deal' is to sell records to people who love your music and become rich as hell off of something you love to do. am i right? i guess if you have a record deal you're commercial..

!


>Shortly after, the Listening was born.
>
>One cat on here said that it was same
>underground/neo-soul/conscious/mainstream shit he hears all
>the time....
>
>I told Tay, okay.....we are on to something....

^lmao...


>STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE
>ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.
>
>No matter WHAT you talk about. Cats say that Jay-Z talks
>about the same thing every record. Okay, what the fuck does
>TRIBE talk about differently from record to record???? What
>about Gangstarr??? What about Black Moon???? WHAT ABOUT THE
>ROOTS???
>
>If you are FREEING MUMIA on your first record, then chances
>are you will be doing it on EVERY RECORD YOU PUT OUT.
>
>Redman makes a reference to WEED ON EVERY RECORD.....
>
>So what changes???
>
>The beats of the record changes the complexity of the album,
>YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE, NO MATTER WHAT.
>
>You mind a TOPIC here and there to elaborate on, BUT THIS IS
>RAP MUSIC...
>

^lmao @ the 'Freeing Mumia' comments...


>Anyways, let's fast forward to a couple of weeks ago.....
>
>
>So I'm find myself sitting in Baseline Studios, NYC, in
>front of the "devil"....let OKP tell it, playing beats.....
>
>
>I played 29 beats.....he listened to every one.
>
>HE DID.
>
>Not an A&R, not an assistant, not his manager....
>
>Jay-Z DID.
>
>Every beat.
>
>I went to several quote en quote "underground, keepin it
>real labels" and the A&R's was like, "yeah man, I'm gonna go
>through these and pick out some for(fill in your favorite
>"real emcee")
>
>Not Jay....
>
>Probably Rap's richest, most power figure to date took the
>time out to listened to a new producer who got a couple of
>shots in mags hear and there.
>
>An hour.
>29 beats.
>At least 2 minutes to every beat.

^wow...that's good shit. i know this really has to be a goal that was accomplished. for real. especially if he listened to EVERY beat. and there was no '3rd person' involved. cool...i'm super jelous of you! in a good way i guess...

but i know how cats is that blow you off...and you expect them to support you because you feel yall are seeing eye to eye- from a hip hop perspective. it has happened to me...a few times. from somebody i thought would be happy to give a 'helping hand'...but he didnt. i was shocked. and to hear 'Jigga-Man' himself was checking you out like that...puzzles me...

all and all...i feel you man! congrads...


>All I know is the game, t.v., and the industry has fucked up
>the minds of this new generation of hip-hop fans.

^i'm glad you said this...because when it came out of my mouth(and fingers) it held no weight. for some odd reason. mothafuckers don't be listenin' to me...why?


>
>There are dope cats that OKP's bash on the regular just
>because they get radio play, and praise the ones that
>don't....
>
>
>WHAT THE FUCK IS EVERYBODY GONNA DO WHEN THE MUSIC OKP
>PRAISE BECOMES MAINSTREAM.....if the industry sees that a
>Little Brother, or a Five Dees, or a J-Rawls, or a Aesop
>Rock can sell millions, that WILL be Mainstream hip-hop.
>Then, EVERY MAJOR LABEL WILL TRY THEIR DAMNNEST TO FIND A
>COPY CAT.
>
>So, before you label somebody the rap antichrist, or say
>somebody is not doing it for the culture, check yourself....


^yo i know a lot of mothafuckers wont like me sayin it..but fuck it. i've said it offline too much. okayplayer is full of 'dickriders' and 'haters'...almost everybody...i swear. quote me. i've been peepin nigga's cards for a while now. you cant tell be different. whoever don't like it...fuck you! lol in your face...hater...

but anyway...i cant wait for that day to come- when authentic hip hop is what everyone is looking for. when you don't have to sell out to sell records. well...that's a little bit too good to be true. it would be great though. but then "gangsta rap" is only gonna be poppin' strong 2 years later. that is how the cipher goes right? or is it black power?


but this was a great post man. a lot of cats should read this. for real...

i wish you luck and all success with this music shit man. keep doing what you do best...that's what everyone should do...but they dont. why? oh yeah and Little Brother is the shit!! oh and i aint start listening to The Listening because of word of mouth...it was because i thought the name of yall group was tight than a mothaf...


peace

Dayum. That was fuckin'...just DAYUM. That was beautiful.

This needs to be archived...please believe it.

that 9th beat lit a fire under my ass.

mofuckas gonna be redoing their albums...

LOL this aint jay-z LOL
cute tho

AMEN brother!!! good music is good music period!
baby blak calls it "middle ground"
i love jay, nas, dilated, little brother, ghostface, big l, black star, etc.
tight flows/knockin beats = HIP HOP
it kills me when kats talk underground..what ya wanna stay underground for the rest of ya life?? WTF
don't kats make music for the masses to feel?? if not they wouldnt record shit & would perform in their bedroom infront of the mirror w/ the brush mic!!!
in 96-97 we where doin "underground" shit only cuz nobody heard of us yet!!!! FOOTWORK ILLADELPH R.I.P.


>that 9th beat lit a fire under my ass.
>
>mofuckas gonna be redoing their albums...

"NO ROGER NO RERUN NO RENT"

Where's a good place to get artwork shown out here these days?

thanks for postin this ninth,you have very good points and i totally agree with you on all of them.i'm one of those cats still livin with my mom's,and only 17 years old.but sometimes i fell more mature and smarter than most grown men i meet on these sites.but just keep making good music man,and i know you gonna make the jay-z album i mean cause you are amazing with your beats.but i just wanted to thank you for postin this,cuz i'm still a young kid and artists like yourself honestly help me out and teach me a lot in this corrupt world,and help me to grow up when i need some growin up to do.but again, thanks,peace.

mellow

"STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK."

As much as I understand what he's saying about putting labels on artists in the Hip-Hop genre, I feel there's a point to be made. Labels are a natural part of what humans do. Hip-hop is still relatively new (not over late 30 yrs or even 40, right), so whereas in the past it may have been easier to fit or box (depedning on you point of view) many artists into ONE box, the genre has grown--for better or worse-- into what it is today. Be it consumerism and marketabilty, beef, whatever--its changed. And with change come natural classifications. Look at rock years from its inception. Garage rock, heavy-metal, roots, prgressive, punk, even "post-punk" or whatever. It just happens, SO YOU CAN'T ASK PEOPLE TO NOT LABEL ARTISTS AT ALL. Sure A& Rs do it to sell records, but fans and followers do it as well to group artists that they like together for easy recognition. And just as OKPs dis jay-z for being too mainstream, Jay's fans dis kweli and other "conscious mcs" for being to political and not having fun.It's close minded, and every once in a while an artist comes along to break that mold (ie Lauryn Hill, Prince, Outkast), but it just is what it is. THE BEST THING TO DO IS JUST GIVE THE TRUTH TO CATS WHO WANT TO BE OPEN MINDED AND TO THOSE WHO DON'T--FUCK EM. I'll maintain that I don't listen to Jay anymore--I used to, until I decided that what he and other artists--who just happened to be in the mainstream because what they spit IS WHAT SELLS-- is not for me. That doesn't make me some hypocrite, I just know what artists I like. And I do wish I could hear Jay spit more diverse shit that "gucci flip-flops" on that Kast song, but he doesn't, so I don't buy his shit. But I will always appreciate his lyrical ability (which is why I want to hear my subjective prefernce of his shit)but I don't watch his videos--its my choice.

And lastly, lets not forget that even the artists themselves do not fully appreciate being boxed in as soley a "hip-hop" artists with the common mainstream american perception of what that is, with no truth or diversity in there regarding lyrical content, flow, production, shows, etc. NO ONE LIKES BEING SEEN AS THE TOKEN STEREOTYPE EITHER, AND ARE QUICK TO DEBUNK THE MYTH THE THEY ARE SIMPLY THE COMMON RAPPER. Its a fine line between the extreme perception of an mc/rapper and common stereotype. SO IT GOES BOTH WAYS.

Peace.

like dat computer batch u peepin @'s t!ts

Yo glad to see you getting your shine on the beats and big ups on the Little Brother album (definitely classic material)..

Now coming from someone in your posistion this post will carry more weight, and already has with the almost 300 replies.

Hopefully, your post will open some of these peoples minds and make them do some research on past albums and crews that other people dropped in regards to your post.

And glad to see other people talking about how different regions of the country get shitted on just because they come from the south, or the midwest. Like you said man good music and good music, and wack music is wack music.

That line that has blurred the commercial vs undergound has definitely fucked a lot of shit up. I too am a college radio DJ and was in the same mindset as you talked about, but just like yourself I had to take a step back and think about "shit" for a minute. You couldn't tell me shit about undergound crews not being better then the "commercial acts". Dilated, J-Live, Rasco, Planet Asia, Akrobatik, etc, etc, etc.. man I was all about the indie scene, but then something funny started happening. The indie scene started to get just a wack as the "commercial" scene. Now I play shit that I feel is dope regardless of the size of the label they are on, or the amount of airplay they receive commercial or otherwise.

We got to keep shit moving forward or else this music and culture we call hip hop is gonna really be dead. Recongnize the real, and keep elevating.

Oh yeah for those that read how many post someone has made, don't sleep on me being new. I read this forum all the time, but this is the first post I really felt like replying to.

peace

...can't wait to hear your new material...great post..
Think you could jump back on the Evil Dee post? That was gettin good until this blew up..lol

Us left-wingers always imagine ourselves to be populist, but are often such cultural elitists. We have the nerve to wonder
why it's so hard for us to connect with the masses, we are rejecting their culture as beneath us."-Jsmooth995

it's about how folks act afraid to have their own opinion...they'd rather join a faction than stand alone or in the middle. Folks are also afraid to let another fan stand on his own, many are out to convert them to their way of thinking.

Cold duality.

I also love how cats make sweeping considerations instead of individual ones.

13 more untl triple-platinum.

great read.
much success to you.
Thanks for the clarification of what some knew..and most others refused to believe...wow shawn carter is a pharreal dude.
Humans CAM rap supernaturally.

>STOP TRYIN TO CATEGORIZE RAP MUSIC.......THERE SHOULD BE
>ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.

this is truth

9th, you probably won't read this, but whatever. i highly appreciate you taking the time out to type this out. i will be completely honest, i learned a lot from it. i feel a lot more open-minded now that i've read that. i've never been close-minded just because a group was getting radioplay, but i know a lot of people who do and this definitely opened my eyes. thank you.

- - - - -

www.wingnutjazz.com <--- !!!!!!
peace & love

i rap and make beats in my spare time. rapping seems to be something everybody does in their spare time. you don't know how often i run into cats from high school and as them what they're doing, to which their reply is "trying to do this music thing." cats out of school with no job, working on music. i have no problem with people wanting to do music, but it sucks to see people with real potential just put all their eggs into this basket. then i listen to their tracks and they wack as fuck. do these cats know they suck? did nobody tell them how sorry they were? mid-nineties rhyme schemes. everybody raps the same. you get experimental with production or rhyme style and people don't feel it. so closed minded. i live in houston. if you've ever been there, you know the overwhelming abundance of screw and rappers talking about escalades on spinners they don't have. when eight out of ten rappers talk about the same shit, the other two rappers are considered wack. me and my man are those two rappers. shit makes me want to move to another city just to get a little shine.

|
|
v

AllHipHop: How did you hook up with 9th Wonder?

Jay-Z: I don’t know.

Young Guru : I love Little Brother. I went and found them real quick. I was going to bring them up here and play some beats for Jay. I know Jay f*cks with Quest from The Roots. So I told him to page Jay and big up 9th.

Jay-Z: Oh sh*t! They should give you half of that check. Amir called me that day, “I heard you got a meeting with 9th.” I’m like, “Who’s 9th?” He’s good. He’s nice. He’s in the same vein as another Primo, another Pete Rock. He’s really good.

THERE SHOULD BE ONLY 2 CATEGORIES.....WACK AS FUCK and DOPE AS FUCK.

its about time somebody said it. ARCHIVE THIS!!

before they were these yorkoid pseudo "black islamic" guys,
now they want to get real and "represent the streets". Otherwise
congradulations God. Peace.

quite simply: word. This is what I've been telling everyone for 7 years now (7 years and almost as many albums-- that's some 1992 Ice Cube isht right there).

Cat really broke it down...good shit.

Can't wait to hear the Jay joint...much love.

but maybe thats because im listening to the avalanches

thanks 9th

.

this is a good post.


Song of the Day
Show and Prove
Big Daddy Kane- 1994

(1st time I heard Jay-Z spit)

Other producers on the album include Kanye West ("Encore," "Lucifer"), Timbaland, newcomers the Bucannons, and 9th Wonder from the North Carolina hip-hop group Little Brother. "He's incredible," Jay said. "In two years, everyone's going to know his name."

Wow......

but i'm listening to "reasonable doubt" so i guess it makes sense

this ninth shit has sparked three damn huge posts, with three dif. perspectives. Shit is crazy, its like the board is battling itself. Everyday its a new large ass post--

My first experience with something of this magnitude--well, at least cats are talking, but I'm hella burned out. Good convos though--now its time to take it to CLEAR CHANNEL and fuck them MFers up

inbox me

!

Man I'm only 20 so when I got ahold of my first jay single I didnt even know what it was(AND WISH I STILL HAD IT!!!!) My Dad managed a wherehouse of a Circuit City and some of the younger employees would chill with me when I'd be there on weekends waitin to bring him his lunch.. I was lookin through CDs and this cat told me that "this one's tight you'll like it".. was the Payday Release of "In My lifetime" with the green bottle on the front...damn.. its funny to cuz I was in like fifth grade knew nothin except that this disc was tight and lost it (go figure) then a few years later peeped Streets Is Watching and was like DAMN!!!..LOL but ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN FIND ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE.. I DOUBT THEY'RE IN PRINT BUT HEY...holla at a boricua if ya know something..

nice post 9th..I'm new to this board and its nice to see an online music community that doesnt foster the kind of shit that gets shows canceled..

been a Jigga fan since REASONABLE DOUBT.. got all his stuff and i'm sure it won't stop with THE BLACK ALBUM.. i know you gave him some HEAT for that track!. was on HIPHOPSITE.COM this morning and i saw that the track made the FINAL CUT...congrats on that!!. i'll be waiting to hear it on NOV. 28!!.


that is all...