who do you think is the better producer, and why?

Poll question: Dr.Dre vs. The RZA

Poll result (111 votes) Dr.Dre (36 votes) Vote The RZA (75 votes) Vote

I prefer the grimy, unpolished sound.







"it is unclear to me why anybody over 15 would listen to an album like Curtis, except to review it."-John H. McWhorter

______________________________________________________________
My attitude is not celibate, fuck you! (c) Joell Ortiz

http://www.last.fm/user/soulsupreme/

nm

its not like we ARE all on okayplayer or anything

-------------------------
"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small Pro

This is pretty funny. I love RZA's shit but there's no question who I'm running out to get if they put out an album at the same time. Too much of the RZA's stuff in the middle of his career all sounds the same. I did like the new direction he went in on the latest Wu album though which everyone else seemed to hate.

I said basically the same exact thing a few posts ago...

>Too much of the RZA's stuff in the middle of
>his career all sounds the same.

__________
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers. (c) Kno

cause he actually produces....and he's my top 5 producer




..:::fcuk words i speak in music:::..


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worst argument I've heard in a while.

..:::fcuk words i speak in music:::..


www.myspace.com/godis9music

some free shit:
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RZA's body of work bodies Dre's. I honestly think RZA has more classics under his belt than the Doc, and in a shorter time span ...

End result both are dope and have timeless classics to bump to ...

RZA was basically responsible for 8 rappers with different styles...

oversaw concept and creativity of group and solo albums...

there is also Gravediggaz and other Wu-affliates which he guided...

pretty much .. RZA >>>>>>>> Dr.Dre

I vote for The Diggy-diggy Doctor.

It's tough but I'm partial to Dre cause I grew up on his shit. My first cassette tape was The Chronic. I love Rza too but I take Dre slightly.

It's funny cause the knock I have on Rza is "too much material", the knock on Dre is "too little material". It's like, a pleasant surprise to see: produced by Doc Dre on any song these days, whereas over the years Rza has put his name on beats for every brother to come out of Staten Island for the past 15 years, which has resulted in some great beats, but many middle of the line beats too.

RZA all day... Dr. Dre got some good beats, but RZA is so extra grimey with it. His drums make you snap your neck from bobing your head so much. I dont even own a Dr. Dre album, but I'll cop anything that The RZA is apart of.

Lyterall appears courtesy of
Midnight Heat Ent./Planet Ill


The new album "Stop Looking At Me" coming soon.... just waite and listen!

for not owning a Dre album. Can't really make a decision on who you like better if you ain't even own one of dood's albums.

Just because i dont own any of his work, dont mean i havent heard them. But, Dr. Dre aint even on the same level as The RZA. POINT BLANK!!! He's more on the same wave length as Erick Sermon.

Lyterall appears courtesy of
Midnight Heat Ent./Planet Ill

The new album "Stop Looking At Me" coming Winter 2009.... just waite and listen!

________________________________

mpc2000
Korg Triton
Technic 1200

He tends to overuse specific sounds like his 2003-2007 'Dre' sound, making them redundant pretty quickly. They're both genius producers, but RZA tends to only flirt with sounds and styles before moving on while Dre rarely changes.

I was talking only quantity, not quality.

But even still, I disagree. I think both have changed their sounds a few times, but had a tendency to get redundant during certain periods.

And that's just not true. He gave heaps of rappers beats over the past 4 years and wore down that orchestral piano sound he had.

I haven't looked hard enough. I just find it rare to find a Dre produced song, whereas Rza produces for every Wu step child that ever crept out of Staten Island or NY.

And your point about overusing a sound, Rza didn't overuse the sped-up soul sample chipmunk sound over the years? Again, I think they're both guilty of becoming redundant at times. But both have also switched up their style enough to stay fresh 15-20-25 years into their careers.

Neither would've had the longevity they currently have if they stayed in their early-90s (and for Dre, 80s) styles all these years.

Although RZA has had more than his share of missteps over the years I don't think he overdid the sped-up soul samples for more than a few years and it was never a huge part of his sound. He's definitely guilty of having a lazy ass mid-career slump though. From 2002 to 2006 I didn't really give a shit when I saw 'produced by the RZA' in the credits, but he's back on it now.

I wish he'd kept on with that reggae shit though. Those songs he did with Junior Reid are classics.

but even having a similar sound from 03-06 can be considered getting repetitive. But I mean if you prefer Rza over Dre you're probably gonna overlook that, just as I overlook Dre's repetitiveness at many times over his career because I slightly prefer Dre.

It was just crap

But we've both got our preferences. Despite what I say about Dre the great majority of his beats entertain the shit out of me. His songs on The Big Bang were incredible.

I'm in the same boat with Rza. I love most of his shit, like I said I'm just partial to Dre cause I grew up on his shit and therefore have an ear for his sound, whereas I got into Rza later on in my music listening life and love his shit, but prefer Dre.

i'll take rza's imperfection over dre's crispy staleness

-------------------------
"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small Pro

:(

>i'll take rza's imperfection over dre's crispy staleness
__________
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers. (c) Kno

>i'll take rza's imperfection over dre's crispy staleness
>
>-------------------------
>"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of
>music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small
>Pro


_________________________
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dre:
straight outta compton
100 miles and runnin'
niggaz4life
the chronic
doggystyle
2001


rza:
36 chambers
tical
return
only built 4 cuban linx
liquid swordz
ironman
supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced it)

...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...

rza by a hair.

you're right.

>dre:
>straight outta compton
>100 miles and runnin'
>niggaz4life
>the chronic
>doggystyle
>2001
>
>
>rza:
>36 chambers
>only built 4 cuban linx
>liquid swordz
>ironman
>
>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>
>rza by a hair.

>tical
>return

not classics my dude

>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced it)

how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly produced any tracks on it?!!?!

>>dre:
>>straight outta compton
>>100 miles and runnin'
>>niggaz4life
>>the chronic
>>doggystyle
>>2001
>>
>>
>>rza:
>>36 chambers
>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>liquid swordz
>>ironman
>>
>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>
>>rza by a hair.
>
>>tical
>>return
>
>not classics my dude

bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need" "shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!

>
>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>it)
>
>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly produced
>any tracks on it?!!?!

rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement in "2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz). other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished it and made it an album.

>>>dre:
>>>straight outta compton
>>>100 miles and runnin'
>>>niggaz4life
>>>the chronic
>>>doggystyle
>>>2001
>>>
>>>
>>>rza:
>>>36 chambers
>>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>>liquid swordz
>>>ironman
>>>
>>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>>
>>>rza by a hair.
>>
>>>tical
>>>return
>>
>>not classics my dude
>
>bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need"
>"shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!

Tical and Return to the 36 Chambers were not classics. OB4CL & Liquid Swords yes. y'all niggas are too generous with the classic word

>
>>
>>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>>it)
>>
>>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly produced
>>any tracks on it?!!?!
>
>rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement in
>"2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz).
>other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished it
>and made it an album.

not the same. Dre got actual production credits. RZA got credit for two joints. shit is not the same

despite claims by bitter, lesser producers, were you in the studio with Death Row to know for a fact that Daz was handing Dre beats at that time? You absolutely were not, so that's a bold claim.

>>>>dre:
>>>>straight outta compton
>>>>100 miles and runnin'
>>>>niggaz4life
>>>>the chronic
>>>>doggystyle
>>>>2001
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>rza:
>>>>36 chambers
>>>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>>>liquid swordz
>>>>ironman
>>>>
>>>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>>>
>>>>rza by a hair.
>>>
>>>>tical
>>>>return
>>>
>>>not classics my dude
>>
>>bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need"
>>"shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!
>
>Tical and Return to the 36 Chambers were not classics. OB4CL &
>Liquid Swords yes. y'all niggas are too generous with the
>classic word

whatever. talk to any person who came of age around 93-96 and they can tell you where they were when they first heard those albums and how it made them feel. "i was in my homie's car, getting high and he put that shit on...blew my mind!" that's classic.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>>>it)
>>>
>>>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly
>produced
>>>any tracks on it?!!?!
>>
>>rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement
>in
>>"2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz).
>>other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished
>it
>>and made it an album.
>
>not the same. Dre got actual production credits. RZA got
>credit for two joints. shit is not the same

"producer" is for the final product. any knucklehead with an mpc can make a beat. it's takes someone with vision to produce the song/album. both rza and dre have that vision...but they have two different work styles leading up to that final point (outsource v. diy). it just so happens that rza (with ghost) took a more dre-like role with "supreme"...to say that rza just "produced two beats" for that album is ludicrous. he threaded the whole project together! puffy ain't never touched a beat machine in his life, but look at how many "production credits" he got! it's not as cut and dry as you think it is.

>

>>>>>dre:
>>>>>straight outta compton
>>>>>100 miles and runnin'
>>>>>niggaz4life
>>>>>the chronic
>>>>>doggystyle
>>>>>2001
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>rza:
>>>>>36 chambers
>>>>>only built 4 cuban linx
>>>>>liquid swordz
>>>>>ironman
>>>>>
>>>>>...and "sunshower" and "12 jewelz"...
>>>>>
>>>>>rza by a hair.
>>>>
>>>>>tical
>>>>>return
>>>>
>>>>not classics my dude
>>>
>>>bullshit. go back to 94-95. "bring the pain" "all i need"
>>>"shimmy" "brooklyn zoo"...fuck outta here!
>>
>>Tical and Return to the 36 Chambers were not classics. OB4CL
>&
>>Liquid Swords yes. y'all niggas are too generous with the
>>classic word
>
>whatever. talk to any person who came of age around 93-96 and
>they can tell you where they were when they first heard those
>albums and how it made them feel. "i was in my homie's car,
>getting high and he put that shit on...blew my mind!" that's
>classic.

i'm 34 so i was definitely around to hear the shit when it was first released. OB4CL & Liquid Swords got the approval stamp. Tical & Return to the 36 Chambers didn't. You were high that's why it blew your mind. K.I.M.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>supreme clientele (kinda-sorta...he and ghost co-produced
>>>>it)
>>>>
>>>>how can RZA get props for this album when he hardly
>>produced
>>>>any tracks on it?!!?!
>>>
>>>rza's involvement with "supreme" mirrors dre's involvement
>>in
>>>"2001" (scott storch and mel man) and "the chronic" (daz).
>>>other guys made/started the beats...rza and ghost finished
>>it
>>>and made it an album.
>>
>>not the same. Dre got actual production credits. RZA got
>>credit for two joints. shit is not the same
>
>"producer" is for the final product. any knucklehead with an
>mpc can make a beat. it's takes someone with vision to
>produce the song/album. both rza and dre have that
>vision...but they have two different work styles leading up to
>that final point (outsource v. diy). it just so happens that
>rza (with ghost) took a more dre-like role with "supreme"...to
>say that rza just "produced two beats" for that album is
>ludicrous. he threaded the whole project together! puffy
>ain't never touched a beat machine in his life, but look at
>how many "production credits" he got! it's not as cut and dry
>as you think it is.

look at all my other responses. i'm not arguing this bullshit anymore.

>
>>
>

look son, all this "were you in the studio?" bullshit isn't helping anyone's argument. but do some research...that detox article in scratch last year for example. all those army of producers dre is working with...hi-tech, denuan, just blaze, etc. for detox...that's just how he works. he shared credits with mel-man and scott storch for 2001 too! i'm not taking anything away from dre or puffy, or saying that just because their not diy like premo or pete rock makes him anything less of a producer.

now i forgot what i was trying to say to begin with...oh that's right, some kid was trying to say that rza didn't produce supreme or some bullshit like that.

fuck it, i'm leaving this post too...

>look son, all this "were you in the studio?" bullshit isn't
>helping anyone's argument. but do some research...that detox
>article in scratch last year for example. all those army of
>producers dre is working with...hi-tech, denuan, just blaze,
>etc. for detox...that's just how he works. he shared credits
>with mel-man and scott storch for 2001 too! i'm not taking
>anything away from dre or puffy, or saying that just because
>their not diy like premo or pete rock makes him anything less
>of a producer.
>
>now i forgot what i was trying to say to begin with...oh
>that's right, some kid was trying to say that rza didn't
>produce supreme or some bullshit like that.
>
>fuck it, i'm leaving this post too...

all this Dre doesn't really produce shit ain't helping anyone's argument either. Detox is one fuckin record. Dre been in the game since the 80's. his track record speaks for itself. All them niggas you just named are learning from Dre and i'm sure they're getting their credit. Dre brings in musicians to replay his shit so no he's not looping and chopping records like Pete & Primo.

don't no what kid you're talking about but i'm 34 so i'll look past that statement. RZA didn't produce the whole Supreme Clientele album. He produced two tracks (Buck 50 & Child's Play) which were damn good might i add. He mixed the "Malcolm" track and he helped him arrange the album which i'm taking as he helped Ghost sequence the album when Ghost brought him the tracks he had done. that's important but that's more Puff than Dre if you ask me and niggas give puff a lot of flack for his work.

it's well documented that producers will give Dre initial IDEAS for beats and he will run with it and perfect it, and as dood said, bring in musicians to make "samples" sound the way he wants: pace, tone, etc. That is hardly "stealing" beats. If I was 43 and already proved myself, I'd be signing young brothers too to do the initial dirty work so that I could work my magic.

As dood above said, Dre proved himself from 80-whatever the fuck year through the 90s. If he wants to bring in other producers to hand him ideas and run with them, all the power to him. Like I said, I'd do it too if I were his age and didn't care to do the dirty work anymore. If Dre wasn't shit and was just "stealing beats" why would producers as good as the ones he employs keep "handing" them their beats (for example, Just Blaze don't need to do work for Dre to make a name for himself and make loot, he's a Roc A Fella in-house producer, he's making his money, you think he needs Dre's name to blow up? He's already blown up. He's working with Dre cause he knows Dre can make his shit sound crisp as fuck, and because Dre is a legend, with good reason)? Fuck all that noise. Dre is proven, and perfects a beat like no one else.

you misunderstood me just like "dood" did.

>>fuck it, i'm leaving this post too...

i'm back.

>
>all this Dre doesn't really produce shit ain't helping
>anyone's argument either.

you misunderstood me. i never said dre "doesn't really produce" stuff. on the contrary, i was arguing that dre is more of a "producer" in the traditional pop music sense, like quincy jones et al. and that's the similar role that rza and ghost took with "supreme."

Detox is one fuckin record. Dre been
>in the game since the 80's. his track record speaks for
>itself. All them niggas you just named are learning from Dre
>and i'm sure they're getting their credit. Dre brings in
>musicians to replay his shit so no he's not looping and
>chopping records like Pete & Primo.

well, rza and ghost BROUGHT IN producers on an album level for "supreme." THAT'S PRODUCING.

>RZA didn't produce the whole Supreme
>Clientele album. He produced two tracks (Buck 50 & Child's
>Play) which were damn good might i add. He mixed the "Malcolm"
>track and he helped him arrange the album which i'm taking as
>he helped Ghost sequence the album when Ghost brought him the
>tracks he had done. that's important but that's more Puff than
>Dre if you ask me and niggas give puff a lot of flack for his
>work.

to correct you, rza also did the tracks for "stroke of death," "the grain," and "impossible" (kinda, he split that with 4th) and ghostface "produced" "in the rain"--which brings me to another point...i'd argue that what ghost did for that song IS producing as well...he brought in (the entire) song, wrote to it, and did the vox arrangements. he had the idea of just spitting over an entire song and put he it together.

beyond the liner notes, here's a direct quote from rza in the source march 2000:

"on ghost's album, production is credited to the rza and ghostface. we got beats from carlos broady, juju of the beatnuts, hassan of umc's, mo the barber, and black moes-art. the bottom line is we compiled it. after niggas gave us a beat, we never seen em again na'mean? usually a producer, he comes in, he makes a beat, he mixes it, he guides the path of it. but nobody really did that for this album with me and ghost. that's why you get that special sound. i chose all the music for the skits and everything. i just needle and threaded the album together."

again, THAT'S PRODUCING.

i should've known better than to come in this poll. i just had to see the insanity for myself.

just curious.

if it were possible to do a worldwide poll, Dre would win easily

niggaz4life & the chronic > any RZA produced album

and Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... is on my top 20 hip hop albums of all time list

where is Dr.Dre's work with international artists?

yeah, exactly...

>if it were possible to do a worldwide poll, Dre would win
>easily

who gives a shit? if this were a worldwide poll fuckin Diddy and Pharell would probably kill both of them.



>niggaz4life & the chronic > any RZA produced album

just goes to show you, opinions are like assholes.

imo Bobby Digital >> The Chronic - see what i mean?

and niggaz4life is one of my top 15 albums of all time

take that "world wide poll" shit the fuck to 106th & park.

i ain't watched videos in years so FOH wit that shit. on this board, niggas will choose Showbiz over Dre. Canibus will be on niggas top 10 emcees of all-time list so i think my logic is on point playboi

>isn't that why OKP is special? We're not all sheep. We're
>much more critical here. You see that MTV Top MC list? Thats
>who your talking about. Who cares what they think. Stop this
>only on OKP bullshit.

OKP isn't that special anymore. You see all the Wayne Posts, right? i'll stop that "only on OKP" shit when niggas stop that "Dre doesn't actually produce" bullshit.

- Joseph Campbell

the re-election of George W. Bush debunks your argument..

most of the world thinks a lot of things that are plain out wrong.

The Lesson got this vote right.

The Rza is 10 times the artist Dr. Dre is..

'Only Built 4 Cuban Linx' is a greater production than 'Niggaz 4 Life' and 'The Chronic.'

Rza has a list of great beats thrice as long as Dre's.

affirmative

sshhhhhhhhh

>if it were possible to do a worldwide poll, Dre would win
>easily
>
>niggaz4life & the chronic > any RZA produced album
>
>and Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... is on my top 20 hip hop albums
>of all time list

Dre would only win if most of the people voting were 15 years old and idolized 50 Cent and Lil Wayne and had no idea who the fuck the RZA was, and if they did, they wouldn't know a RZA beat if they were listening to 36 Chambers. sure, it would be closer if you involved the entire hip hop community (as in people who know what the fuck they are talking about, not dumb ass kids), but i think RZA would still win by a hair.

You ask some stupid fucking questions

ANYBODY GOING FOR DRE IS OVERLOOKING A SMALL DETAIL


DRE DON'T MAKE BEATS BY HIMSELF

THAT ALONE GIVE RZA THE NOD

DRE BASICALLY HAS A PRODUCTION TEAM BEHIND HIM

don't most producers though?

>don't most producers though?


UGGGGGG....NO

IS SOMEBODY IN THE FUCKING STUDIO WITH PREMO?

LARGE PRO?

PETE ROCK?

9TH WONDER?

AND PPL WONDER WHY HIP HOP IS IN THE STATE THAT IT'S IN?

YOU GOT SOME OF THE DUMBEST SO CALL FANS SUPPORTING ALL THE WACK SHIT GOING ON IN HIP HOP

lol.

when Rza is on Dr.Dre's level wake me up. track record speaks for itself. it aint even close. Dr. dre is the Quincy Jones of Hip-Hop period.

he's branched out his style a few/many times. Rza has stayed close to home

.

-------------------------
"when you apply his techniques from Donuts to other types of music besides soul/R&B, the possibilites are endless."- Small Pro

.

i think rza is one of the most talented and creative producers

RZA.... come on men, wutang. dude produced 8 diff rappers with distinct styles and made them work as a singular unit on tracks..... not to mention his influence on Ye and Just Blaze among others..

he's produced rappers, singers, rockers, etc. And also had an influence on 20 years worth of producers in hip-hop. You named Ye and Just Blaze for producers that followed Rza's lead. I could go on for days about producers who bit Dre's style over the years.

im not saying dre/rza is better, but for that point alone, rza's influence is much far reaching than dre's at this point.

this very message board's favorite producer, j dilla, dropped arguably his greatest piece of work in 2006, Donuts...which owed a lot of its brilliance to styles rza first brought to the table 10 years prior

i can't really think of as many producers borrowing parts - not the whole thing, just parts - of dre's style(s) and running with it like people did w/ rza

again, not to say that makes rza better, but he definitely wins the influence category

if you really want me to I will, but right now I'm at work so I don't have time to list the 100s of producers who have bit Dre's style since The Chronic. But remember, g-funk reigned over hip hop for over 10 years, with Dre being the ring leader of it all. I'd say that creating a sound that RAN HIP HOP for 10+ years is a little better than a few producers mimicking Rza's style.

But I mean, I'll get it started I guess: DJ Quik, Daz, the entire Bad Boy label, Scott Storch, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. These producers have come right out and SAID that they were coppin Dre's steez.

But really though, I see what you're saying. I just don't get how you can say that producers taking small parts of Rza's style is a higher influence than crafting a sound that an entire generation of hip hop copied for over a decade. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

did not!

i mean, i guess i'd have to see when you decided that g-funk 'started'...but that seems like a major embelishment

and i don't know what bad boy producers you heard trying to sound like dr. dre...i don't care what they 'said', if it doesn't show up in their music, then what is a comment like that worth? i'll give you daz and scott storch, but i think it's telling that 2 of the 3 instantly recognizable cats you named actually worked w/ dre at some point; to some people dj quik is >> dre, since im not a fan i will decline to comment on that

i just don't know about g-funk having THAT long a run...meanwhile when it comes to underground shit, since 1993, how many producers have been on that dusty, lo-fi, string loops and chops and sloppy drums? i mean that sound IS hip-hop to some cats in here

"Axe Puff Daddy" - Biggie

G funk did show up all over the early Bad Boy albums, and "Diddy" or whatever he calls himself these days has said many times that he started his label and decided his musical direction based on production from Death Row and specifically, Dr. Dre. If you can't hear the influence g funk had on early Bad Boy and many early to late 90s hip hop albums.

It doesn't matter if you like Quik better than Dre or not, that doesn't change the fact that his sound in the early 90s was crafted based on many of the same type of samples and musical influences that Dre used. It was the dominant sound in popular and hardcore hip hop, and even the best producers couldn't help but try it out.

Maybe 10 years was too long, but just about from 1991-1999, g funk was a dominant sound in hip hop, you can't deny that influence.

Hip hop has been using that dusty, string loop sound since at least 1993, you're right, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that these producers, whether underground or otherwise, all do this because of Rza's influence.

Trust me, I love Rza, and think he's unbelievable on the boards, my point is just that as far as influence over hip hop is concerned, I don't think his influence was as widespread and lengthy as Dre's has been, whether it was g-funk or Dre's current production style.

dre doesnt produce and nobody cares about detox

that's funny.

Nobody cares about Detox? Yeah right. If a story came out that Detox was coming out next week everyone and their momma (including RZA himself) would be in line to get it.

lately anyway

keep putting your opinions all you want...

fact is RZA evolved and has become more sophiscated artist than Dr.Dre ever was...

while Dre is still doing the usual sampling, looping drums etc.. for rappers, RZA is getting calls to compose music with orchestras... i.e. The Protector soundtrack

also Dre was always more of a business man..

everytime you interview RZA, he is always talking about the next level he is going with his music... the next Afro Samurai soundtrack is should come out soon...

supposely Dr.Dre doesn't even want to do Detox.. lol

>keep putting your opinions all you want...
>
>fact is RZA evolved and has become more sophiscated artist
>than Dr.Dre ever was...
>
>while Dre is still doing the usual sampling, looping drums
>etc.. for rappers, RZA is getting calls to compose music with
>orchestras... i.e. The Protector soundtrack

Dre has hired musicians to play his shit. RZA is my dude too. i'm not saying he's garbage but he's not Dre IMO

>
>also Dre was always more of a business man..
>
>everytime you interview RZA, he is always talking about the
>next level he is going with his music... the next Afro Samurai
>soundtrack is should come out soon...

all that shit is cool but if it doesn't come out good, it's nothing to brag about

>
>supposely Dr.Dre doesn't even want to do Detox.. lol

dude is 43 and paid. i wouldn't do it either. fuck these fickle ass rap fans

I have heard that Dre doesn't just sample and loop...He'll take a sample, and as Madd Rapper said, have musicians come in and recreate it at the pitch, speed, tone and quality he wants...So even though he's technically "sampling", dood still works harder than most producers to piece together his beats.

I don't care what he may have done or didn't do while making it, the end result is garbage.

I'm not knocking the old shit. The old shit is undeniable but the new shit sucks.

His drums suck for starters.

>


Overall, I thought it was a 4.5/5 album.

RZA stepped it up

i had to give it a couple of listens to appreciate it

"8 Diagrams" sucked ass production wise.
The new Bobby Digital sucks ass production wise.

RZA's early work can't be denied.
But he is done.

Dre still makes a good record every once in a while.

Mother fuckers who are still riding for RZA based off of "36 Chambers" need to wake up out of their comic book/kung fu film fanatasies and step into reality.

Dude hasn't made music like that in a long ass time and the music he is making now pretty much sucks.

The whole "Birth of Prince" shit was dope to me but the best tracks on there were produced by Bronze Nazareth, not RZA.

Because only one man could have ever produced this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWymaLBVZAk










BITCH BITCH BITCH BITCH BITCH BITCH!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vijaRKqPHuk

MAKE ROOM FOR THE KING!

hell yeah. how could u put dre over rza?

then I react like a convict and start killin' shit!!"
(peep the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUk683Sl3U&feature=related

notice Rza in the back in a ninja suit and fro at the end of the video

like this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieWt8mLDhVs

y'all ride for your people regardless. gravediggaz were nothing more than horrorcore gimmicks fam.

though NWA was nothing more than a bunch of doods acting like they were in gangs when really, maybe 2 of 5 actually participated in the shit they talked about.


But I still liked NWA much, much, much more than Gravediggaz

all them niggas were studio gangsters except Eazy from what i've heard

I was givin MC Ren the benefit of the doubt cause I don't know one way or the other, and he always sounded pretty hard so it's feasible...but yea I've heard Eazy was the lone gang member too.

>though NWA was nothing more than a bunch of doods acting like
>they were in gangs when really, maybe 2 of 5 actually
>participated in the shit they talked about.

LMAO

i ain't mad at ya...

askin' someone form New York who is better: Rza or Dre
is like asking a Jew who is better: Moses or Mohammed

but seriously, despite my clear bias and deep respect for Dre, i truly believe Rza has a greater overall body of work.

RZA got me through college fall 93 to spring 97. i was definitely a wu head

those were the years... and for you my friend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sUEe4TMlcg

even though Ghost wasn't my dude back then

Nas live with Wu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeMrcDy_kWE

Kid change your habit, you know I'm friends with the Abbott
Me and RZA ridin name printed in the tablet

FF to 1:58 to see dude in this crowd... lmao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-LFBzSZae4

this is a special one for yall...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dy2D8vVxRE

LMAO at ODB 'Peace to every black people out there!'

haha that was great! Those dudes were crazy.

I was never THAT impressed by Dre's music.

albums ever...

Cypress Hill was on that whole G-Funk style before Dre...
not to mention they were more original..

...this idea that Dre is the goat or top 5 needs to die quick

i think so




better rapper too

dre's the better "producer" going by the classical definition
rza may be the better programmer/beatmaker

...lets not act like Rza was just some dude who made beats

>...lets not act like Rza was just some dude who made beats

exactly. Rza made a whole universe of sounds. and the fact that he
orchestrated everything good about WU (1st round of solo albums)
and didn't need to produce for other rappers is outstanding.
he was more creative and knew how to get the best out of the MCs
he worked with.

only on OKP

reading and responding to all these clowns on that bullshit all week. These fools need to be set straight on that shit....It's the most bogus and baseless claim in hiphop.

...u cats still in denial after all these years??? ...lol, get a grip ...and now yall cant stand the fact that RZA is voted better ...its really eating you cats us inside haha

countless times. LOL at clowns like yourself wit your baseless arguments. Read my other responses, I'm thru arguing with backwards ass debaters.

People's opinions don't eat me up inside. What eats me up is morons like yourself who claim that Dre don't produce. If you like Rza better, whatever. We can go back and forth all day about the tracks they've produced, why one is better than the other, that's the base of a good hip hop discussion. What I hate is morons like yourself who consider Dre a "beat thief" when in reality it's not even close to that. Again, Dre would have been sued out the game a long time ago if that was the case, and proven producers like Just Blaze, Hi Tek and Timbaland wouldn't be working with him if that was the case, either.

>...u cats still in denial after all these years??? ...lol,
>get a grip ...and now yall cant stand the fact that RZA is
>voted better ...its really eating you cats us inside haha

what happens to these so called ghost producers once they leave Dre's stable? they shit don't sound nearly as good. What has Daz, Mel-Man or any of these other niggas done post Dre?

And alotta "Dre beats" were done by Mel-man so yeah, RZA ftw.

"Dr. Dre is a master homie, trust me! All that shit niggas try to say, "blah, blah, blah," that nigga is a master son. There is nobody who ever touched the board that made Hip-Hop sound as clear, heavy and strong as he did."

http://www.thaformula.com/the_rza_the_way_of_the_samurai.html

ThaFormula.com - Are you and (Dr) Dre really actually working together on this "Cuban Linx II" album?

Rza - Yeah, we working together on that album. I mean I was in Dre's studio for months. The beats he got, I chose that beat like "yo, I want that one yo." He was like "you want that one? Bam! Here." It was like that yo, it was much respect between us man.

ThaFormula.com - So I have to ask what I ask everyone that messes with Dre, how do you feel about all the stories and accusations about Dre not being a real producer or having ghost producers?

Rza - Dr. Dre is a master homie, trust me! All that shit niggas try to say, "blah, blah, blah," that nigga is a master son. There is nobody who ever touched the board that made Hip-Hop sound as clear, heavy and strong as he did.

ThaFormula.com - Not even you?

Rza - Nah nigga, his shit is clear nigga. You put his CD in, his shit fills your whole car up. My shit make you wanna drive fast and crash and fuck a nigga up, but it ain't clear like that. You got to hear my shit 20 times to hear what the fuck we said sometimes. You hear his shit on the first listen. You know that, I know that and I told him that. That's why if you look at Jay-Z's album it says "mixed by Dr. Dre" nigga and you never heard Just Blaze music sound so good. He's a master man.

fuckin' useless ass post. Abbott shut everyone the fuck up with that one.

And there you have it. Dre All Day

...thats basically a diss when it comes to hip hop ...clean and clear is the LAST thing people look for in hip hop during their runs ..it was about raw, dirty and grimy shit, hence Dre LOSING this poll.

what more needs to be said?

It's called bein humble. How many times have you heard great artists give praise to other great artists, it happens all the time.

we're not gonna agree so no need to keep going in circles, right?

...im not saying dre sucks ...he IS a master ...hes good at what he does ..but better than RZA?? no way ...top 5?? lol, not a shot in hell

01. Rick Rubin
02. Marley Marl
03. The Bomb Squad
04. Dr. Dre
05. DJ Premier
06. Pete Rock
07. RZA
08. DJ Quik
09. Prince Paul
10. Organized Noize

Dre just happens to be in my top 5

word?

from when i was introduced to that producer's music

dont act like it's some unbelievable statement, that's perfectly reasonable. i'd understand if somebody picked one over the other. now if he said buckwild or somebody is better than rza, then that's something different. pete is a great.

...but RZA over Pete isnt THAT bold a statement

>what more needs to be said?


TRY COMPREHENSION....There is nobody who ever touched the board that made Hip-Hop sound as clear, heavy and strong as he did.

WHERE DID HE SAID DRE WAS A BETTER BEAT MAKER...AND DRE TOOK THAT ELEMENT AND MASTERED IT INDEED. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO'S BETTER AT MAKING BEATS

RZA BARELY MAKE CLEAN SHIT...MOST OF HIS BEATS ARE "DIRTY"

>>what more needs to be said?
>
>
>TRY COMPREHENSION....There is nobody who ever touched the
>board that made Hip-Hop sound as clear, heavy and strong as he
>did.

he also said "All that shit niggas try to say, "blah, blah, blah," that nigga is a master son". i'm pretty sure you're part of the Dre doesn't really produce clan so "blah, blah, blah," nigga

>
>WHERE DID HE SAID DRE WAS A BETTER BEAT MAKER...AND DRE TOOK
>THAT ELEMENT AND MASTERED IT INDEED. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO
>WITH WHO'S BETTER AT MAKING BEATS

the fuck are you talking about? where did i say RZA said Dre was better than him? i said Dre is better than RZA. I don't expect RZA to say Dre is better than him.

>
>RZA BARELY MAKE CLEAN SHIT...MOST OF HIS BEATS ARE "DIRTY"

i guess you thought you taught me something new with this line? i got all RZA's shit so i know how he mixes his music fam. thanx for the wisdom

Rza - Yeah, we working together on that album. I mean I was in Dre's studio for months. The beats he got, I chose that beat like "yo, I want that one yo." He was like "you want that one? Bam! Here." It was like that yo, it was much respect between us man.


Dre giving RZA beats, not the other way around = Dre's got beats RZA wishes he made = Dre>RZA...

























*dead*

if that's all people looked for then why does Dre ALWAYS sell??

If people weren't looking for clean and clear beats, Dre (and the 100s of producers who bit his style) would've fallen off years ago.

Brainless post.

...Dre will always sell no matter what he does ...hes a brand name ...plus his shit sounds squeeky clean just like what??? POP MUSIC ...thats another reason he's successful on mainstream pop charts

Let me rephrase my point then. Dre has been selling coast to coast, LA to NY, to hip hop heads for decades. Hip hop heads, meaning he's appealing to the people who apparently don't want "crisp and clear" beats. Why would he continue to sell to hip hop heads for 25+ years if they didn't want beats to sound clear? Not to mention he wasn't a "brand name" when he started, so why's he been able to sell his shit since, like, 1985?

Whether or not you like it, sales do sometimes have a little to do with how successful an artist is. Is it the only way I or anyone with half a brain measures a talented artist? Of course not. But people like you seem to think that hip hop heads aren't part of the general population, like they're sifted out into their own genre, and anyone who sells over 500k is pop and a sell out becauese they succeeded and sold their records, and should not be considered good in a "hiphop" sense. Only people who sell to the hip hop population, 100k or less, are really talented.

Again, a brainless argument.

>Let me rephrase my point then. Dre has been selling coast to
>coast, LA to NY, to hip hop heads for decades. Hip hop heads,
>meaning he's appealing to the people who apparently don't want
>"crisp and clear" beats. Why would he continue to sell to hip
>hop heads for 25+ years if they didn't want beats to sound
>clear? Not to mention he wasn't a "brand name" when he
>started, so why's he been able to sell his shit since, like,
>1985?


he's been a brand name since NWA.. and surely by the time the G Thang 12" dropped.. he stepped into his solo career AS a brand name.. he was gonna SELL records.. they just didnt know that he would become so mainstream/pop


>Whether or not you like it, sales do sometimes have a little
>to do with how successful an artist is. Is it the only way I
>or anyone with half a brain measures a talented artist? Of
>course not. But people like you seem to think that hip hop
>heads aren't part of the general population, like they're
>sifted out into their own genre, and anyone who sells over
>500k is pop and a sell out becauese they succeeded and sold
>their records, and should not be considered good in a "hiphop"
>sense. Only people who sell to the hip hop population, 100k
>or less, are really talented.


again.. you dont make a single point.. we are talking whos the better producer.. dont bring up sales to me.. you bring that up cuz ur boy is losing the poll and its pathetic..

>Again, a brainless argument.

yet again.. you failed to make your own points...

>he's been a brand name since NWA.. and surely by the time the
>G Thang 12" dropped.. he stepped into his solo career AS a
>brand name.. he was gonna SELL records.. they just didnt
>know that he would become so mainstream/pop

He may have sold to the west coast at that time, but he wasn't brand name until The Chronic dropped. Don't even try and play that, homie. He made his sound accessible to the entire country which is WHY he became a brand name, proving my point.

>>Whether or not you like it, sales do sometimes have a little
>>to do with how successful an artist is. Is it the only way
>I
>>or anyone with half a brain measures a talented artist? Of
>>course not. But people like you seem to think that hip hop
>>heads aren't part of the general population, like they're
>>sifted out into their own genre, and anyone who sells over
>>500k is pop and a sell out becauese they succeeded and sold
>>their records, and should not be considered good in a
>"hiphop"
>>sense. Only people who sell to the hip hop population, 100k
>>or less, are really talented.
>
>
>again.. you dont make a single point.. we are talking whos the
>better producer.. dont bring up sales to me.. you bring that
>up cuz ur boy is losing the poll and its pathetic..

No, I bring sales up because your original argument centered around the fact that "people" (who = sales, clown) don't like to hear "clear, crisp hip hop", which just isn't true. I brought up that point because you seem like the type that says "oh sales don't matter" when clearly, someone who is just a bum producer wouldn't sell to anyone. And you sift out sales because it doesn't help your argument, even though your entire initial point was about the "people" wanting crisp and clear vs. raw and grimey. People = sales, I thought you would be intelligent enough to figure that out.


>yet again.. you failed to make your own points...

Yet again, you need to read more good.

speech/plea

this is Rza being humble and showing respect...

whats he gonna say 'Dre is aight, but i'm better.' ??

a lot of people have done that. I think Kanye said it when he made his own top 10 list on (ahem) MTV, putting himself at #1 and said "you gotta think you're the illest, that's what gives you the confidence to keep makin that ill shit" or something to that effect.

Not that Kanye is anywhere near the top of an MC list, but it's the quote that got me, and proves my point. A lot of people will say "he's ill, but I'm better" to keep up the competition that makes hip hop great.

Any MC or producer saying that an MC or producer is better than them (especially one with the accolades that Rza has) is an ultimate praise, and means more than many of you are giving it credit for.

I would say 90% of producers who have actually sat in with Dre in the studio and worked hand in hand with him have had similar comments. That list includes DJ Quik, Hi Tek, Timbaland, etc., so we're not talkin about joker producers here. The only producers who have knocked on Dre's ability either ain't in the game at all anymore, or don't matter anymore as far as production is concerned (i.e. Daz). My point is, the only producer(s) who hated on Dre's ability probly needed that type of noise to keep their careers and names alive, and didn't and don't have the talent to do it themselves. The producers that DO matter and who can make it themselves all praise Dre as the "master" or something similar.

at basketball

Jordan said that his brother WAS better than he was, in high school. Which is probably true since Jordan didn't even make his varsity team junior year.

Faulty argument, and proves no point in this discussion.

..we can hear the music for ourselves ...i dont need Vince Carter to break it down for me why Kobe is a good player ..i can see it myself

he said that Rza was just being humble, I was saying that anyone with an ego like a hiphop artists' would not be that humble about someone they're technically in competition with unless there was a reason.

...very rarely will you see them talk bad about one another

he has to talk bad about anyone. I'm saying for him to let his guard down enough to say Dre is a BETTER producer than he is, rather than saying "Dre is ill, but I'm #1" is a hell of a praise. You need to read more good.

Doesn't even warrant a response.

im shocked...

1. at the audacity of this post.
2. the results.

you all should be ashamed of your self.

* waves finger of shame *

who don't even post....only vote in these polls....I'm sure of it!!!

You think either of them are sitting around thinking what the hell some OLD azz kid on Okayplayer is posting.... Heck NO! At the end of the day they are counting stacks thinking about what to invest in next or who's suing them over some unauthorized sample.



Two Fingers and I'm Out!

...and while we're at it !! Lets not discuss sports!!! or movies!!! or politics!!! WHOO HOO!!!

beat me to it homie.

end of story

WOULD THINK RZA > DR.DRE

how many lawsuits has it been?

pretty much MOST producers that collaborated with dre ALL call him a genius and a honor working with him...

you're talking about some no-names who never won their case....just stop


FACT: this decade some of the the BEST production was overseen by dre....meanwhile RZA's own clan is questioning his production skills

how many lawsuits have even made it to court?

Any time someone's on top, there's lawsuits to bring you down. Only time they have any value is if they actually win a case, nevermind actually GETTING IT TO COURT.

Another faulty argument.

Most of Wu-Tang haven't made an album worth shit without RZA

RZA hasn't been in top form since the Ironman album back in 96. cats just be giving dude a pass on that Bobby Digital shit

Ghost is the exception but even his last two albums sucked.

His work has its fans and the media is kind to him. The same can't be said for any Clan member (aside from Ghostface and it's not like Big Doe Rehab was a stunning success anyway) who has strayed from working with him.

would be unmatched hip hop due to his so called process
of getting in musicians, beatmakers blah blah blah...

but at end of the day what you usually hear is a lazy sample
over drums...

some simplistic shit that Madlib would do in 3 mins, only his shit wont come out corny...

"lazy samples over drums"

he maybe skilled at mixing and mastering tracks...

but when you look at the originals, taking long melodies, its nothing that some other beatmaker couldn't do...

unlike when you hear Dilla's originals and you dont even know how the hell made that song...

no one does what Dilla did, that's what made him so great. No one does what Rza does, that's what makes him so great. Dre brings in musicians to remake his samples most of the time, he doesn't just loop them. That to me is better than just taking a sample and looping it a la Kanye West. Dilla chopped beats like nobody's business, but that's a bad example cause I'd love to hear you name me another producer who can chop a sample like he did. Dre has his own style, and that includes bringing musicians to remake his samples the way he wants them to sound. If that's not hard work to you, then this discussion will go nowhere.

>no one does what Dilla did, that's what made him so great.
>No one does what Rza does, that's what makes him so great.
>Dre brings in musicians to remake his samples most of the
>time, he doesn't just loop them. That to me is better than
>just taking a sample and looping it a la Kanye West.

whoa wait there a minute...

there is a huge difference between a Kanye and RZA loop...

one is notorious for using the main melody of the sample
and the other is known for creating songs out of small hard to find loops...

>Dilla
>chopped beats like nobody's business, but that's a bad example
>cause I'd love to hear you name me another producer who can
>chop a sample like he did.

please get off the okayplayer propaganda...

Diamond D, Dj Shadow, Prefuse 73, El-P, Fat Jon... etc..
sorry but Jay Dee is not the only one who is good a chopping samples...

>Dre has his own style, and that
>includes bringing musicians to remake his samples the way he
>wants them to sound. If that's not hard work to you, then
>this discussion will go nowhere.

im not saying it isn't hard work, but more of a clever way
to use someone else's melody and not get sued...

to stop the Dilla worship when he's the one who brought him up in the first place. FOH, I would have never brought Dilla's name into this debate had you not mentioned him. You can't really be that dumb. Anyway, enough of that bullshit...


>whoa wait there a minute...
>
>there is a huge difference between a Kanye and RZA loop...
>

I didn't compare Rza and Kanye. I simply made it a point to show that Dre does more with his work than, say, a Kanye West, for example. You need to read more good.


>please get off the okayplayer propaganda...
>
>Diamond D, Dj Shadow, Prefuse 73, El-P, Fat Jon... etc..
>sorry but Jay Dee is not the only one who is good a chopping
>samples...

I don't know who you're talkin to with this "okayplayer propaganda", get off your own dick son. As far as preference, I put Dilla above D, Shadow, Prefuse, and El-P; I can't recall hearing any Fat Jon beats that I ever listened to enough to know they were even sampled. My point is, it has nothing to do with "propaganda", it's personal preference. I think he chopped beats better than anyone, so, good work you named some producers who chopped beats in similar fashion, but again it's a personal preference so here's another debate that will go nowhere. But, don't condescend like you're some fuckin hip hop guru.


>>Dre has his own style, and that
>>includes bringing musicians to remake his samples the way he
>>wants them to sound. If that's not hard work to you, then
>>this discussion will go nowhere.
>
>im not saying it isn't hard work, but more of a clever way
>to use someone else's melody and not get sued...

Hip hop was built on using other people's melodies, so neither you nor I has an argument there.

n/m

point i was trying to make, is Dre has staff, musicians etc...
to do something that Madlib does, and not only he does it better but his music output is extremely higher than Dre...

>point i was trying to make, is Dre has staff, musicians
>etc...
>to do something that Madlib does, and not only he does it
>better but his music output is extremely higher than Dre...

half the shit madlib puts out is overrated anyway.

remember dr dre went to work with burt bacharach
look how that turned out
dre's about as musically advanced as a doorbell

************************
You must not know bout me, you must not know bout me, to the left, to the left (C) "Killa" Camron

Kidding. I voted Bob Digi

is a suprise even though i voted Rza and expect to win but not by such a margin, not even on OKP

shit! El-P would probably beat Dre around this muhfucka

>shit! El-P would probably beat Dre around this muhfucka

there was a poll on that and it was pretty close

both masters of their craft

at the end of the day its which 'sound' speaks to you more

if thats not good enough for you i will say this

i think rza has the edge on that prototypical 'hip hop production' in the way we nostalgicize it.

for example im certain the rza is a more experienced digger, has chopped more samples, etc

dre has a different approach that for whatever reason some folks will never see as legitimate

but at the end of the day they both create backdrops for rappers

the salient point is here:

i dont think u can judge ones 'skill' over the other. because they rely on different skill sets

what u can say is which sound u prefer. for me, its a toss up

Dr Dre by a LANDLSIDE!!!

I like RZA and all but his music sounds like SHIT outside of listening to it on headphones....

i mean, i prefer rza's (quality) beats more than dre's, but i would never think the discrepancy would be this huge...not even at the lesson.

anyway, i say rza because he works DEFTLY in the realm of hip-hop. see the "kill bill" & "ghost dog" backdrops he did; he branches out, but at the same time, he makes his other mediums assume a hip-hop aesthetic, which is why i appreciate his work. he makes the sort of beats i would like to rap over, & his work really portrays hip-hop as a musical art. not that the music should have to acquiesce certain standards, but still...he just does it that way. it's incredible.

dre is a legend in his own right, & his process is entirely different than rza's. as mentioned in a couple posts above, it's hard to determine a "better" producer of the two, so you just have to pick a preference. dre produces incredible beats, & his whole routine of hiring co-beatsmiths & instrumentalists really demonstrates his perfectionism and meticulousness.

dre's greatness post-"the chronic" lies heavily in the clarity of his beats. dude's tracks are engineered/mixed so perfectly that you can hear every tick, & final products just sound so air-tight. this sharply contrasts the intentional subtleties of rza's beats; you may need headphones to catch the some of their nuances. also, they sound less finished. not that they sound incomplete, but they have a certain roughness to their quality that makes it seem like you were in the studio WITH rza as he crafted the track; like this is how it SHOULD sound.

peace.

somehow we all know the answer who, even though most of y'all won't admit it....

it's just a dope beat with wack niggas rapping on it

then you lost.....and do not understand DRE's or RZA's jobs at all

case closed. you either produce for money, a dope emcee that you believe in or for your homies. when Havoc produces for the infamous Mobb, you think it's because they dope? when Primo produces for group home & big shug you think it's because they dope?

i used to think that RBX was nice until he stopped fuckin' with dre....

it's like singing, a producer CAN make someone sound dope..you know that most R&B artists sound wacker live on stage than on wax...and dre being a perfectionist that is known for making artists to make million of takes just so they can get it right

like i said, you lack the understanding of whut a PRODUCER does full scale...it's not just making a hot beat

he's the overseer of crafting a song...and many producers have different ways of doing it...some have musicians and/or beatmakers to work with, some have a keyboard and a drum machine....a producer have to ensure that the artist that's doing the song is on the right pitch, pace and ect...RZA, for example, was always known for choosing which wu-tang artist to be the perfect sound for this track or that track, and is notorious of chopping down each individual's verses to how he wants to arrange them....

dre, is a perfectionist in everyway...hence why we may NEVER get to hear DETOX, because he's never satisfied with any final product...he takes seriously on little nuances that we tend to take for granted...it's why his music is always the crispiest clear sounding music in hiphop, and been that way since NIGGAZ4LIFE...it's why the best produced albums of this DECADE were essentially overseen by DRE more or less...from DOCUMENTARY, GRODT, the MARSHALL MATHERS lp, tha LAST MEAL, the BIG BANG, RESTLESS...and he pretty much had the best produced albums of the last past THREE decades...something RZA cannot match...granted during the 90's RZA shown greatness, but that's all

lastly, dre on three separate occasions transformed the sound for the entire west coast...1st with straight outta compton, 2nd with the chronic, and last with chronic 2001....RZA never ever had the impact, maybe partially the influence, but NEVER the impact that dre has...

Dre changed the sound of at least the west coast a couple times.

i touched on this on an above post.

Master P is and always will be wack so i don't know why you put him there.

>i used to think that RBX was nice until he stopped fuckin'
>with dre....

RBX was dope. he just got stuck in a time warp. it happens to the best of them sometimes (See Rakim).

>
>it's like singing, a producer CAN make someone sound dope..you
>know that most R&B artists sound wacker live on stage than on
>wax...and dre being a perfectionist that is known for making
>artists to make million of takes just so they can get it
>right

most r&b singers can't really sing. you can touch up their vocals and fix the pitch in the studio. r&b has become about looks more than talent. we're talkin' about hip hop fam. if you wack you're gonna sound wack regardless of the beat. Dre ain't never just had a wack ass nigga on his album. quality over quantity fam. you here them bum ass niggas RZA got on that Digi Snacks?

>
>like i said, you lack the understanding of whut a PRODUCER
>does full scale...it's not just making a hot beat

you're just making it more complex than it actually is. this is hip hop my nig. we ain't talkin' about being in the studio with Quincy Jones.

>
>he's the overseer of crafting a song...and many producers have
>different ways of doing it...some have musicians and/or
>beatmakers to work with, some have a keyboard and a drum
>machine....a producer have to ensure that the artist that's
>doing the song is on the right pitch, pace and ect...RZA, for
>example, was always known for choosing which wu-tang artist to
>be the perfect sound for this track or that track, and is
>notorious of chopping down each individual's verses to how he
>wants to arrange them....

yadda, yadda, yadda. once again, we're talkin' hip hop. not r&b. besides, listening to RZA's shit, i don't think dude is that critical when it comes to mixing his music. i heard that the Wu just rapped and whoever had the best verse got on the track. i don't think he was concerned with pitch control and pacing seeing how he himself could flow on & off beat at times.

>
>dre, is a perfectionist in everyway...hence why we may NEVER
>get to hear DETOX, because he's never satisfied with any final
>product...he takes seriously on little nuances that we tend to
>take for granted...it's why his music is always the crispiest
>clear sounding music in hiphop, and been that way since
>NIGGAZ4LIFE...it's why the best produced albums of this DECADE
>were essentially overseen by DRE more or less...from
>DOCUMENTARY, GRODT, the MARSHALL MATHERS lp, tha LAST MEAL,
>the BIG BANG, RESTLESS...and he pretty much had the best
>produced albums of the last past THREE decades...something RZA
>cannot match...granted during the 90's RZA shown greatness,
>but that's all

agreed

>
>lastly, dre on three separate occasions transformed the sound
>for the entire west coast...1st with straight outta compton,
>2nd with the chronic, and last with chronic 2001....RZA never
>ever had the impact, maybe partially the influence, but NEVER
>the impact that dre has...

RZA may not have had the impact that Dre had but he damn sure made them eastcoast niggas get more creative. Dude ran the eastcoast during the mid 90's with his ideas alone. his mixing was the lone problem for me. i like to listen to my music in the car and his shit just doesn't sit well in that environment but it seems like most niggas don't care as long as it sounds good in their headphones.

Dr.Orcheztrate would get a vote if it waz hiz production team dat we were votin' on and not him himself.

i guess you never listened to wu-tang's last album though....

if this was about whos's the BEST beatmaker...then hands down RZA, but beatmaking isn't producing...anybody can use a keyboard and drum machine...it's whut you do with that beat and that artist to bring that sond to life...the mixing and mastering...telling the engineers whut to do and ect

a producer always have production teams....from the engineer, that musician that may work that guitar, or drum programming, or so forth, that person that's a co-producer and ect...

there's no difference between dre & RZA except how they formulate their sound...but the raw pieces that they use are basically the same....

and 4th Disciple. Dr. Dre wasn't the only producer who had a production team.

When da otha katz produced they uzually produced da trackz on their own (wit maybe help frum RZA for engineerin' & mixdown but dat'z it), but for Dr.Orcheztrate he would let dem bazikally make da track & he would take credit for it all cauze he mixed it & engineered it and sometymez give da othaz co-production.

When you saw Mathematics or Tru-Master'z name they had full producer creditz cauze it waz uzually all dem in da firzt place.

RZA and Dre are both considered two of the best ever. Clearly.

RZA's style would seem to be more of what your typical OKP poster would prefer. And RZA's winning.

What is so shocking here?

They both got deep catalogues of classics....RZA's are more well liked here. *Shrug*

Dre is that producer you know will always make enjoyable shit. While he may occasionally get a bit boring, he manages to spice shit up eventually. RZA is too weird to stay consistent like that, he's always changing his sound. Wu-Stans tend to simplify shit and categorize everything RZA's done since 1998 under some umbrella 'digi' sound but he hasn't made an album like In Stereo since. In fact, none of the 9 or 10 albums RZA has produced since 1998 sound the same at all. That's why I prefer RZA, he's always surprising.

I never liked Dre all that much. The arguments on hear are fucking hilarious tho.

some of ya'll really are some virgin ass, no friend havin, booger eatin bammas