0. Technical ie "white singing" vs. Chu'uch Sanging

1. Rockism
2. Marketers/Critics today are using Rockism in a new context, connecting Black Pop singers with the Black Churck

Point of contention
- Yonce learned to sing in the church
- Yonce was raised to be the next winner on Star Search

Evidence
- Yonce says she sang in the church - against Affy
- Destiny's Child homemade video tapes - for Affy

Argument Against Afkap
- He's not black American enough to even comment
- He's not black American enough to know what to comment on to prove his point
- more "ad hominem"/standing arguments

Compromise on Afkap's part - "I never said NO influence"

SoWhat steps in for Afkap, since he's got the right pedigree
- turns fire's support against her - evidence of how much koolaid has been drank
- fire backpedals on her argument to address Sowhat, and focuses on the fact that Vh-1's driven did not show Yonce in the church - suggesting that if they did - Younce would have church cred

Question becomes, which dominated more of Yonce's musical education, Singing in the Church or Singing for Star Search?

Interesting sidelines
- Marvin Gaye has Church - But did not grow up in the Black Church being referred to in this thread
- Levert - Learned to sing by watching his father, not the church. But Father was a Gospel man.
- Numerous other R&B acts, whom folks "hear church in".
- Warren - does Warren
- Wendell - sorta agrees with Afkap, but not sure
- Gumdrops and Bongo - 2 avid contributors are basically sidelined because they have less nigger cred than Afkap. Though they get to put in a few quips

__________________________

As for my take
- real life cred - street cred in hip hop, church cred in R&B.

Does it make a difference to sales? To the quality of the art?

- Underlying this whole concept, to me at least, is the idea that black people are merely spiritual beings, and that there is little if any thought/logic that goes into our art. I.E, we only have souls and not brains, relegating black people to mere savages. The only way we can create art is by channelling these raw emotions, brought on By God, or by "the streets".

all this talk of polish vs unpolish....

Yet seemingly there was a post about Al Green I believe, in which folks wanted to dissect his "soulful" performance as being calculated, so calculated, that so called "real niggas" really couldn't tell the difference. (but that one trailed off into some crap about performance, and I would say "channelling")

- The average public, even a specialized group like this, doesn't do well with abstract ideas. This post really isn't about Beyonce or Joss Stone, yet that's all that people can seem to talk about.

Can this topic be discussed w.o focusing one a handful of artists? I can understand the need to make things concrete, to see if the theory holds, but seemingly no one can think about this in terms of 20-30 artists.

Interesting thread though.

one
k. orr