>But that's still just a quest giver pointing you in a
>direction, the primary difference being nothing is marked on
>your map and nothing is noted in any kind of log so it's up to
>you to decide whether that's interesting or not, which is sort
>of novel I suppose...

this is what i mean by antithetical to modern open world design. hud isn't splashed with icons for pickups and destinations, there is no quest log, the only selectable stuff on map markers is save/warp points you found (with a few exceptions), no fetch quests (well, one for one item), only a handful of quest givers that hand out a very small number of vague and sprawling affairs, crafting can be ignored completely, no skill trees gating your progression or basic movement and combat abilities, when do you do uncover the map it's just removing the fog of war and you can keep the fog on if you happen to not figure out where the map is, etc. to me the game feels like you are given the ability from the very beginning to play how you want to and engage with what you want to, discovering stuff naturally rather than being directed to "discover" it with quest markers and logs. maybe that's not the case for everyone who plays this game

>But then just look at your map right now. See those tunnels?
>Mines to grind for smithing stones with a boss battle at the
>bottom. See those catacombs? Puzzles to solve with a boss
>battle at the bottom. See those ruins? Combat arenas to solve
>with a boss battle at the bottom. See those towers? Puzzles to
>solve with a specific prize at the end. Towns? Minor dungeons
>sometimes with key items. Manors and Forts? Medium dungeons
>with some game changing items. Castles and Cities? Legacy
>dungeons that are the full Souls experience.

smithing stones don't respawn after you complete a mine, only the enemies do. all the stuff you are describing is playing the video game and doesn't read as negatively repetetive to me. i will condede that most of that is standard open world fare and don't have a counter argument for it

>And the maps also got vendors, mini-bosses, places of
>interest, challenge bosses, fog of war and so on all over it.
>If you want a reminder of where you want to go (or a couple
>places you want to go) you'll have blue shafts of light all
>over the regular map and a compass to guide you, or dozens of
>monster, sword and treasure icons to remind you of something
>you didn't finish. It doesn't look or function differently at
>all other than that Dark Souls feel at its core than a Red
>Dead II or a Horizon other than those first 15 or 20 hours
>where you haven't figured out how to read the map yet.
>
>And sometimes even that's not enough - I've been up to Caria
>Manor three separate times after doing something elsewhere in
>the world that seemed like they'd trigger something. I found
>all but a whip my first and second time, sent the dragon away
>my second time and went back specifically for the whip my
>third time. And yet the yellow tail hinting I have something
>to do there is STILL on the map - at this point, I looked at a
>guide just to see if I was missing anything and I wasn't, yet
>this thing is just nagging at me to go to the Manor. Why? Who
>can say! If you don't like open world design to begin with, I
>would imagine this would be fucking INFURIATING.

i would say less than half of the vendors are marked for you on the map even after you discover them. the yellow tails seem to persist even after the demigod has been defeated i guess? i am not bothered by it but i can see why it might be irritating

>So if guy said he doesn't want to do repetitive tasks on a
>big, wide open map...Elden Ring IS that game, same as any
>other open world. And just like Breath of the Wild it feels
>like it's playing this big trick on everyone by convincing
>them it's doing something it really isn't.

gaming is repetition and slowly building on that repetition. i will let will speak on it if he wants but my guess is that he isn't referring to engaging in the mechanics and systems of the game when he is talking about not wanting to do repetetive tasks. the commuting is debatable but there are a few options for reducing time spent in the open world just getting from one place to the next

>But I'm also a completionist type - I LIKE to know where the
>backpacks and pigeons are in Spider-Man so I can go and get
>'em. Icons on a map have never bothered me, and I guess I'll
>just never see the novelty in marking the map all on my own -
>especially considering how much this game is willing to drop
>markers for you already.

i can see how this game would be irritating for a completionist but again, the map markers are generated by the player discovering them. i think this creates a great feeling of player agency vs having everything marked on your map for you when you cross an invisible threshhold, climb a tower, or engage a hawk or drone to mark everything for you. the markers are a reminder of the player accomplishing something rather than the game telling the player they need to accomplish something. a subtle distinction but imo an important one

you seem torn on this game, like you get what makes it good and are geninuely enjoying it but also are annoyed by excessive praise it's getting and maybe the dearth of criticisms