From the makers of Demon/Dark Souls

Getting pretty good reviews so far, I'm hyped and can't wait to crack into this later.

I hear its hard but hard in a sense that they throw more enemies at once.

But I already love it.

It is brutal. The world is dark. Combat may be the most fun of any of the games. I can't wait to get home and play more.

For those who played demons soul the world feels a lot more like that in terms of level design which I am all for.

I played for about an hour and didn't really get anywhere.

So, basically it's a Souls game.

I do like the weapons in this a lot. I got a cane that turns into a whip. Makes it feel like a Castlevania game, especially given the spooky ass environments.

Also, I know I'm late to this having not ever played PC games, but pre-loading and launching right at 12am is fucking awesome.

>Also, I know I'm late to this having not ever played PC games,
>but pre-loading and launching right at 12am is fucking
>awesome.

Man that shit is wonderful! I'll admit I'm not much of a digital download on console type of guy. I think I'm so old school I feel like console should have physical media lol. Maybe I'm that way because PC games are so much cheaper I don't mind the download at such a low price. I'm weird.

But yes, Pre loading is fucking amazing and pretty much eliminates the need to leave the house and wait in the cold and you still get to play at midnight.

or so i've heard.

After the 2nd lamp in Central Yahrnam (sp), kill everyone up until you get to the wolves on the bridge. Turn back around, go back to the lamp, buy the coat which gives your defense a good boost & if you have 3 blood stones, you can fortify your weapon & make it stronger

Longest day ever

I can't wait to get out of here and crack this open.

Correction I don't have Dark Souls 2. I had planned on trying it when it comes out on the new systems soon.

lol

Not sure if you streamed anything yet, but you must stream this! lol

duplicate

i really really really really want to play this. now. dark souls 2 was such a disappointment from all but a technical perspective and i've been trying to s-rank the achievements on dark souls over the past few days so my thirst for a new miyazaki-helmed game is massive

i watched about 15 minutes of lobosjr's bloodborne stream, which was mainly the character creation, and i'm going to watch some of the giant bomb quick look (which is live right now) but after that i'm cutting myself off from any bloodborne-related media or talk. i want to go into it as blind as possible, even if i don't get to play it until next year

what i have seen so far is that it's a souls game all but in name. they removed shields but you can still parry with a gun. the weapons look amazing, as do the environment and monster designs. the kick is back (!), you can ragdoll the corpses, and that weight in the player character's animations has returned. it looks fantastic and it looks like it controls as well as dark souls does

So I've purposely stayed away from all media on this game cuz I know it would stir my loins.

I'm absolutely going to get this eventually (along with the revamped Souls 2) but I need.. to... be... patient....

Like it was leaked on amazon for another country. Maybe a nightmare edition later on this year. I know you're a soul heads so not sure how long you can wait.

Honestly, I'll be blowing the dust off my PS4 for this game, haven't touched it in months other than Final Fantasy Type-0 that I picked up last week that I'll be trading in today.

one can hope though. i think i'll have at least 2 reasons to get a ps4 before the end of the year, depending on when persona 5 drops. i can wait

according to the Bombcast and Quick Look.


I enjoyed watching the Giantbomb guys play though Dark Souls and Demon's Souls but neither game really seemed for me (I have Demon's Souls via PS+ but never installed it...) and I'm still excited for this game for some reason. Just can't justify $60 for something I very well could hate.


~~~~~~~~~
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or at least more streamlined. but you probably shouldn't spend $60 on it if you're not sure you'd like it. wait for a sale or the inevitable GOTY version

i really hope we get a "load our last blood" feature with vinny but it seems like GBEast isn't doing long form video series

.

I hope they one day make a Vita with 1:1 controls of the PS4.

>I hope they one day make a Vita with 1:1 controls of the PS4.
>

This game is ridiculously good. The combat is incredibly tight, the atmosphere is oozing with tension. If this game keeps up this could be my favorite "souls" game yet.

I have only beaten two bosses but both fights are crazy. The second one makes ornstein look slow. The second boss fight may be one of my favorite of the series.

This game gives no fucks either. It throws you right in. If I didn't have souls experience I would probably barely be out of the first area.

I love the weapons system, I started with the Axe. The pistol stun is fun(tho I havent fully figured it out) and the ripostes brutal.

The game reminds me a lot of Demons Souls. The levels have the same never ending levels between safe spots(lamps in this). The levels also have the incredible depth with shortcuts and branching paths.

I could probably keep ranting but you get the idea. The game is ridiculous and you should play it.

Played for about an hour tonight and feel drained but in a good way.

Not as much time as I'd like but I'll knock out more today.

Combat feels tight, I love it.

The whole no shields thing is a nice change instead you rely more on your ranged weapon. I went with saw cleaver and blunderbuss as weapons.

Unlike DKS2 there are not bonfires/lanterns all over, taking me forever to find a spot to be safe, which is cool with me.

For those of you who have done a few bosses, without spoilers, what did you think so far?

Also gotta perfect getting that shot in right before their attack to stun them. Figure It'll be amazing to use on boss fights

Never played a "Souls" game before and damn, lol! I chose great axe & blunderbuss (I call it the Bussa Bus). I made it to the bridge and don't wanna spoil but got handled! I love the game though! Started to progress when I started going back to the Hunter's Dream to fortify weapons, repair weapons & getting gear.

So after tax I got the game and card for $68.

Holy shit
This needs to be fixed asap

What year is this again?

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bloodborne-dev-exploring-patch-to-reduce-load-time/1100-6426126/

Bloodborne Dev "Exploring" Patch to Reduce Load Times, Fix Bugs
The PS4 game's upcoming patch will also make "other performance optimizations and miscellaneous bug fixes."

I'd die and wait 15-20 seconds for that Bloodborne title screen to go away. That's unacceptable.

COTDAMMIT

:)

This game got me heated just 5 minutes into it. I'm putting this down for the night before I wreck this controller.

the souls games and bloodborne won't hold your hand like *insert modern AAA title here*. these games are deliberately obtuse. the point is for the player to figure out stuff on their own instead of having giant text boxes telling them how to play and where to go

think of bloodborne like a logical extension of the 8 and 16-bit castlevania/legend of zelda/metroid games. you're going to need the skills that you used to beat those older games to play bloodborne. memorizing enemy attack patterns, your own attack and evasion animation timings, learning the layout of the game world without a map. you know how to do all of that stuff but modern games have atrophied the "gaming muscles" you use to do those things

just give in to the game world. get immersed in it. forget about how other games play and just focus on how bloodborne plays. these games aren't hard but they are deliberate and punishing. if you play smart and carefully you'll be fine

fwiw, i HATED dark souls the first time i tried to play it. and the second time. the game didn't explain anything so i was hopelessly lost. i didn't know which weapon to use or which class to pick. i was dying to monsters in a few hits. i just didn't get it. but eventually it clicked and i learned to love the game. right now i'm closing in on my 170th hour of dark souls. it's my 4th playthrough. i'm trying to s-rank the achievements but i'm also having fun with the build i'm playing because it gives me an opportunity to use weapons and skills i didn't use in the previous 3 playthroughs

and i DO want to see you play this because it's extremely interesting to watch someone learn how to play a souls game

It can be a lot to take in
although you'd be better off really discovering things on your own.

What I suggest is that you farm for blood essence first and do any upgrades you can by going back to the hunters dream.

.

don't button mash. You want to attack twice, push the button twice.

The timing is very deliberate in these games.

part of the experience is learning about the game with and from other people, ideally by having conversations with those who are playing the same game concurrently and for the first time. wikis are fine too as long as you use them like an instruction manual and not a strategy guide

i can't speak to specific strategies for enemy encounters in bloodborne but i can offer advice on the overarching gameplay loop, some legacy mechanics that the game doesn't explain, how to build your character, and when and where to spend the currency (hint: upgrade your preferred weapon ASAP)

I HATE when they give you a boss the size of a building and you have to fight it in such a narrow path that it becomes impossible to really see anything. I'm looking at the damn things feet the entire time or it places the camera in a position on the other side of the path that blocks my vision.

Really my only complaint other than loading times.

At least give me a better top down view in a cramped space. Incredibly frustrating.

that fixed a similar problem for me in dark souls

Area is awful. My first obsitcal in the game so far is the camera on this fight. Gonna give it a rest and try tomorrow.

Had to level up a few times and cop the new armor to do it but man was I happy when he died.

I have a bell that I can use to summon an npc to help but don't want to waste it on the first boss.

After all the trouble I had with that guy I ended up beating the second boss on my first try.

This isn't even because it's a hard fight.

I feel they put it in a tight space to ale it feel hard and it's incredibly frustrating with the camera swings and inability to see what's going on around me.

I mean make, not ale

Although I wish I had some ale after this!!!

These aren't games for everyone. If you have experience, yeah 100%. Otherwise, I still say yes, but know it is going to be hard as hell and you will get pissed.

to not get you to pick that class because it's actually the best.

Nope, it's the worst:

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Waste+of+Skin

No wonder I had such a hard time.

I have faith I'll see a save point again.

Not going to lie. Incredibly frustrated with Cleric Beast fight.

The combat in this entry Im enjoying a lot. Like I said before the first boss fight is a horrible design for being a first boss strictly because of the camera due to the location, apparently I'm not the only one that feels this way. .

Serious way to turn off newcomers.

The 45 second load times have also been taking me out of it. Very unessasary.

All in all I'm kinda enjoying it and feel like once this minor set back of a horrible boss fight design gets out of the way I'll be into it a lot more.

As for now Dark Souls kinda handled the repetition better.

that's the point.

I just hate having to fight cameras as well as something else in a game.

The rest of it is great, its just that one awful area that places you in the worse positions possible. It's doable for sure, but I have a deep hatred for bad camera angles in video games.

It seems like with the really tall enemies the lock on point goes to the upper part of their body like it does with every enemy, but that ends up putting the camera in a different position than you're used to.

What made this boss a lot easier is realizing the dodge move has some frames of invincibility. Use left/right dodges when he slams down and back/forward when he swipes at you and it makes everything easier.

Also, back away ASAP when he does that flashing red thing.

>The 45 second load times have also been taking me out of it.
>Very unessasary.

That shit makes dying really really sucky.

What do you think about the game after that fight?

Honestly the only thing giving me trouble but I'm in love with the rest of it.

I should have just taken off until I beat that fucker lol

>What do you think about the game after that fight?

I found and beat the second boss easily, but got a bit stuck after that. I didn't realize you needed to buy and item to continue. I unlocked a new area yesterday but an old enemy type carrying a new weapon killed the shit out of me a few times in a row and I ragequit. lol.

I've been trying to avoid guides and stuff but some of this game is about as obtuse as Castlevania 2.

Aside from that, it's great. It's definitely drawing me in more than Dark Souls did (only played a few hours of that one). I'm trying to get better at the gun timing because that seems to make all the difference.

>Honestly the only thing giving me trouble but I'm in love with
>the rest of it.
>
>I should have just taken off until I beat that fucker lol

He's by far the toughest thing I've come across (although the wolf with spear and sewer pig can kill you just as fast).

The next area is pretty cool. Also massive. One of my favorite areas in any souls game go.

I haven't had a chance to play it over the weekend but I got some hunter chief key/mark or something that let me open up an area.

I was/have been pretty lost though so maybe I was going the wrong way.

Lets you go higher up in the Cathedral Ward.

*spoilers*

After you beat blood starved you can go a different route and open the gate from another way. Buying it is definitely easier tho.

Sure, sure, but I imagine most folks would fall to their death an unfun number of times before figuring out that path.

I stumbled on it accidentally. If you played demons would it reminds me of the firelurker shortcut

I found where I was supposed to be going and finally ran into that much talked about machine gun guy.

He is fucking destroying me. I can't wait to kill this dude.

Kill him though, trust me

Also, fuck that boss

1st boss fight I dubbed the camera angle boss down. What's crazy is second boss died on my second attempt lol.

Loving it so far!

This game is merciless. I love it

Just to make it to another checkpoint, the fear that something insane is lurking around every corner, the progress you lose if you happen to slip up.

The atmosphere in this game is incredible to me. The locations, the enemies, everything.

I know its still early but easily the best game I've played this year.

Jamming on that R2 after he was dead like "DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE"

Honestly still the worse boss for me was the first lol.

BsB really just took you learning his phases and figuring out how to not get poisoned so damn hard. After that he's not that bad.

There has been only one boss so far that I've gotten on the first attempt.

Still having a ton of fun with this, keeps creepier as it goes on also. Hope we get some good dlc for this when its all said and done.

from what i understand there is no magic or miracles and only ~30 weapons, transformations included, which would indicate that there isn't much variety in how one approaches the game. plus, there is no concept of equip burden or shields so no fat/mid rolling or tank builds

can anyone verify this?

1) There is magic. Most is hidden (like the equivalent to Homing Soul Mass), but if that's your thing you'll find a way to make it work. (Also, some of the "guns" are basically pyromancy.)

2) With respects to weaponry, it's important to acknowledge how distinct most of the weaponry is in terms of move sets and playstyle. It's not like the 100s of weapons in Dark Souls 2 were all as dramatic in effect as the Majestic Greatsword (the one that gave you Artorias' flips and shit). Instead of 15 different curved swords with different weights and various buffs but a single moveset, you have a single curved sword that can transform into a scythe and be fitted with various buffs.

3) Most importantly, this game is extremely nonlinear, far more than the original release of Dark Souls 2 and perhaps more than DS1. Less than half of the bosses in the game are necessary for completion, and you best believe there's a bunch of secret shit. In this era of gaming, it's weird as all hell for people to still not know what some items do or how many covenants are in the game.

>2) With respects to weaponry, it's important to acknowledge
>how distinct most of the weaponry is in terms of move sets and
>playstyle. It's not like the 100s of weapons in Dark Souls 2
>were all as dramatic in effect as the Majestic Greatsword (the
>one that gave you Artorias' flips and shit). Instead of 15
>different curved swords with different weights and various
>buffs but a single moveset, you have a single curved sword
>that can transform into a scythe and be fitted with various
>buffs.

true enough but i think there were myriad differences in the dark souls 1 weapons, however subtle they were, i.e. nearly all the spears and polearms having different R2 attacks despite sharing the same R1 attacks and the 40 or so rare/boss weapons having unique attacks and/or properties. plus, if weapons did have identical (or nearly identical) movesets, they had distinct weight/range/damage properties that separated them from similar weapons. and then there's two-handing, which doubled the movesets for every weapon

but what i'm gathering from your post and what i've seen of the game is that the slot system replaces the need for unique variants and the ability to transform makes up for the lack of traditional two-handing

>3) Most importantly, this game is extremely nonlinear, far
>more than the original release of Dark Souls 2 and perhaps
>more than DS1. Less than half of the bosses in the game are
>necessary for completion, and you best believe there's a bunch
>of secret shit. In this era of gaming, it's weird as all hell
>for people to still not know what some items do or how many
>covenants are in the game.

this sounds extremely promising. it's only been a week so i suppose i should take any comparisons to the souls game with a grain of salt

But I don't see it. Yeah not many weapons but they all have dramatically different moves. I have been using Ludwig's and I am still finding new moves.

Then there are chalice dungeons which can be randomized and get tougher and tougher.

Covenants aren't as robust but let's be serious: most of the covenants in dark souls were useless.

Whenever I beat a boss, I go back and read about it, and it's amazing all the different items and strategies for each boss.

I think the game will have plenty of replay. People seem to be zealous about the Souls games so people decry anything that isnt the first one.

>But I don't see it. Yeah not many weapons but they all have
>dramatically different moves. I have been using Ludwig's and I
>am still finding new moves.

do you mean beyond the standard R1 and R2 strings? i understand that the weapon can transform mid-string. do weapons have attacks that are unique to mid-string transformations?

>do you mean beyond the standard R1 and R2 strings? i
>understand that the weapon can transform mid-string. do
>weapons have attacks that are unique to mid-string
>transformations?

Yup.

So, the basics aren't much different from DS —

R1: Light Melee
R2: Heavy Melee
L1: Transform
L2: Off-hand Attack (Gunshot or whatever)
Square: Item / Magic

You then have a charge attack by holding down R2 for various durations.

Most weapons have 2 transform attacks for use in strings, though I think some (like the Reiterpallasch) have 3 and two of them are... weird.

So, like the Saw Spear has a really great combo of starting in Spear form, back step R1 for overhead slam > transform to closed for quick doubleslash > transform back to extension for left to right swipe > R2 for thrust > L2 to try for a stagger.

>So, like the Saw Spear has a really great combo of starting in
>Spear form, back step R1 for overhead slam > transform to
>closed for quick doubleslash > transform back to extension for
>left to right swipe > R2 for thrust > L2 to try for a
>stagger.

specifically:

> L2 to try for a
>stagger.

are you saying that enemies can be into a state that allows you to left hand weapon attack mid-string and get the same effect as a parry? can you attack string into a stun and riposte?!

I'm not totally sure what I was referring to, but most weapons (if not all) have charge attacks that can induce a stagger state enabling the claw-riposte. Usually you have to be behind the target, but I think some of the larger weapons can stagger opponents during various attack frames.

There are also weapons (like the Reiterpallasch) that have transform-functions that can parry and/or stagger.

For example there is a way to do an attack, sheathe or switch forms, and you do an wholly unique attack. I know Ludwig's best so things like my L2 in 2h mode being diffetent. There were dash attacks if you hold O and attack. My r2 charge has a follow up attack. Weapons can be extremely intricate

but it REALLY comes in handy for certain enemies.

By the description it almost feels like a joke item.

Don't think Bloodborne was meant to be played like that, especially since as long as you hit them back fast enough you can regain some health lost.

Once I saw that I was like "huh, maybe I should try the shield".

It works well at stopping attacks that would stagger you.

A few things to take care of first but I'm really close. Not even beating it yet until I get everything done first then I'll get the ending. What a journey though. How's everyone else's play through been?

This game. I think it is the best of the "Souls" series. The "last" boss is such a great fight. Beautiful arena and music. This game does not have an easy area. It is brutal all the way through.

I did miss a few bosses. I will do another play through eventually.

Really was an incredible experience though.

I had a few crazy weeks at work so I wasn't able to play much but put in some time and killed the fucker this weekend. It was probably the most elation I've felt playing a game this generation. This game mashes your nuts 90% of the time but that other 10% gives a pretty amazing sense of accomplishment.

Also, the creature design is Guillermo Del Toro caliber good.

There are maybe two bosses you go wtf? But the rest are brutal

What a great game this was. Feels great when you accomplish something like this.

With that being said fuck that Defiled Chalice dungeon. Was almost controller throwing bad. Lol.

Haven't played it in a couple weeks tho

First area was rough as hell for me too mainly because of the first boss and the camera. I would say just farm and level up a bit more once you start to upgrade it'll be a bit easier to deal with.

Once you hit a good stride you'll be set though, after I perfected the first area it all flowed together after that.

Also adds item descriptions on loading screen instead of just showing "Bloodborne" like you already don't know what game you're playing.

- Reduced loading times (approx. 5-15 seconds; may vary by circumstance)

- Fixed bug that left certain lifts and elevators inoperable

- Fixed bug that resulted in bosses becoming immobilized

- Fixed bug that left players unable to advance NPC events during multi-play

- When the PS4 is put into Rest Mode during online play, the game will now return to the main title screen upon resuming play. This will resolve matchmaking issues related to Suspend/Resume.

- Other various bug fixes

And "fixed" all of the known sequence breaks as well as some specific boss cheese. No more uppercutting Father Gas Can over the railing and into oblivion.

Had I been at the appropriate level for the Upper Cathedral and some of these dungeons, it would have been TROUBLE! I'm at lvl. 115 at the moment. I'm just farming levels & trying to get all of the trophies possible for the 1st playthrough

It's out today, I want to cop it sooooo bad but with everything out now I feel like I can wait on this. Reviews seem pretty positive so far so I can't wait to dive back into this game. Base game was one of the best of the year for me.

There's like a zen calmness you have to go in with; my problem was that ever time I died I felt it was a waste when the game is ALL about the process. Once you get there, it's fucking beautiful and a joy to play. Kudos for them making games like this still in 2015

dodging is taking a lot of getting used to. the roll doesn't seem that great. the counter windows are a little weird as well but L2 is basically functionally identical to parrying in dark souls. i'm finding that i react too quickly to the giant brick holding dudes and the sidearm only does damage instead of stunning them. i like being able to parry and riposte bosses but the windows for parrying seem tiny and hard to pick out from the myriad animations. these are mostly learning curve woes. i'll pick it up soon. the whole pace of the gameplay is much faster than i'm used to in games by this team (teams?) but i think i like it. the dodge seems very strong and parrying seems to be the way to victory.

still experimenting with top shoulder button strings. that's another thing that feels a little foreign to me. i spent about 45 seconds trying to 2-hand at the beginning of the game out of instinct. threaded cane "sword" form R1 R1 R1 L1 is nasty. the sheer variety of moves on one weapon is kind of amazing. i need to retrain my mind to consider that R1 with the occasional tactical R2 is not the only course of action

the cleric beast fight really is awful. it's very unfortunate because it's such a cool-looking boss. i'm only lvl 13 with a threaded cane +1 but i feel like i'm dying because i can't see the attack windups, not because i'm mis-timing dodges and attacks. that's not fun. i'm fairly certain i could nickel and dime this boss to death but the camera is preventing me from doing it. i'll come back to it later

i'm still in the first area but the art design and presentation of this game lends a very unsettling air to everything. most of the enemies are grotesque, deformed, and otherwise slightly unnatural and that contrasts perfectly with the rigid lines and curves of the victorian architecture. the sound design is great too. i love the random crying, manical laughter, and possible debauchery taking place behind closed doors. the yarnham denizens are really bummed out about the insanity taking place in the streets and are dealing with it in the worst ways. everything is so fucked in this world. it's wonderful

More I read about this, more I'm like:

"Nah, I'm good."

Shit just sounds too bugged out for me

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

it's great!

all the enemies are so hideous. the fucking carrion crows are horrible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8lNqBFV6c&ab_channel=PvtBooger

i hate those things!

It's not hard it's the damn camera and you not being able to see his attacks.

Crazy because the other bosses while harder don't really have the camera angle thing going on so it seems more fair.

Glad you're enjoying this. It was on my list of best of the year for 15.

the first thing i did when i booted up the game was change the camera auto-correct setting to "off" since that setting wasn't great in dark souls

i think i'm just going to grind molotovs and cheese it

FYI - Threaded Cane is basically "hard mode" compared to the other starting weapons.

Also, the various guns have different parry windows and some can counter what others can't, so it definitely helps to check out the various options to see if you have a better feel for some.

>FYI - Threaded Cane is basically "hard mode" compared to the
>other starting weapons.

really? it seems like a very good weapon. i started as a ...professional? the class with high skill and endurance. (i'm going for a "dex" build). damage seemed to be fine but i suppose i didn't have anything to compare it with. i just got the saw spear and it doesn't seem much better than the threaded cane

>Also, the various guns have different parry windows and some
>can counter what others can't, so it definitely helps to check
>out the various options to see if you have a better feel for
>some.

i'll keep that in mind when i get the option for using different guns. placing a theoretical limit on the number of parries you can have in any given run is... idk how i feel about it just yet. i like it from a strategic perspective but it's also kind of BS

>>FYI - Threaded Cane is basically "hard mode" compared to
>the
>>other starting weapons.
>
>really? it seems like a very good weapon. i started as a
>...professional? the class with high skill and endurance.
>(i'm going for a "dex" build). damage seemed to be fine but i
>suppose i didn't have anything to compare it with. i just got
>the saw spear and it doesn't seem much better than the
>threaded cane
>

Well, it's more that the Cane is explicitly a "finesse" weapon that demands a lot of spatial awareness in terms of how you string together attacks. And in the early game the Saw-weapons make things a bit easier because they all do bonus damage to beast-type enemies (which most early bosses are).

>>Also, the various guns have different parry windows and some
>>can counter what others can't, so it definitely helps to
>check
>>out the various options to see if you have a better feel for
>>some.
>
>i'll keep that in mind when i get the option for using
>different guns. placing a theoretical limit on the number of
>parries you can have in any given run is... idk how i feel
>about it just yet. i like it from a strategic perspective but
>it's also kind of BS

I'm not sure what you mean by "placing a limit on the number of parries", but I guess I look at it as not being much different from how weapons in Souls games have various poise-break values. And I think DS2 experimented (for better or worse) a lot with how various things could parry (like Parrying Dagger vs. Target Shield vs. Monastery Scimitar were all really different).

>Well, it's more that the Cane is explicitly a "finesse" weapon
>that demands a lot of spatial awareness in terms of how you
>string together attacks. And in the early game the Saw-weapons
>make things a bit easier because they all do bonus damage to
>beast-type enemies (which most early bosses are).

got it. the threaded cane works for my early play style. i haven't really delved too deep into damage and resistance types yet

>I'm not sure what you mean by "placing a limit on the number
>of parries", but I guess I look at it as not being much
>different from how weapons in Souls games have various
>poise-break values. And I think DS2 experimented (for better
>or worse) a lot with how various things could parry (like
>Parrying Dagger vs. Target Shield vs. Monastery Scimitar were
>all really different).

what i meant was that you can run out of bullets in critical situations and not only lose the ability to parry but get hit because of the "hey i thought i had bullets..." animation. it's happened to me a couple of times, nearly killing me once and definitely killing me the other times. that's just another adjustment i need to make. it's not particularly frustrating or run-breaking

placing a limit a key ability, irrespective of how high that limit is with blood sacrifice (or whatever it's called) and bullet drops, is a good strategic mechanic because it makes you choose your spots and not blindly mash L2. but i think it's kind of BS because i'm used to having infinite parry attempts with the dark souls shield. it's difficult to learn parry timings for bosses when you only have 10 or so bullets and maybe 15-20 parry attempts per engagement depending on how liberal you are with the bullet making ability. maybe as i get deeper into bloodborne the bullet limit is basically non-existent due to the way ammo drops but in the early goings not being able to parry is pretty debilitating

Oh I see, understood.

Once you have access to gem modifications and runes, I definitely think you'll find yourself better able to leverage blood bullets and whatnot to maintain parry, if that's your preferred playstyle.

That said, I think the strongest criticism against Bloodborne has to do with how Central Yarhnam is so huge for an initial area, and it really throws a ton of shit at you when the player A) has minimal access to the Hunter's full toolset and B) has only a superficial understanding of the mechanics of the game. Like, it's totally rationale for game design to involve progressively adding depth as the player learns the game, but you're usually not thrust into such a complex and aggressive environment. The game really could have used an Undead Asylum type tutorial-level.

just got to old yarnham. entered the area with ~15 vials. died to explosive barrels once. next attempt got down to 3-4 heals and hunter's mark'd out b/c i wasn't certain of the path i should take and there appeared to be another hunter dashing around. the third run ended in me dying to the other hunter because i dropped off the broken street hoping to bypass having to dodge the gatling gun for 3-4 minutes. probably shouldn't have gone in with so few vials but i assumed i would get 6-8 on the way, which i didn't despite killing 7-8 enemies

now i have zero blood vials and i need to go grind somewhere for them. that's discouraging. it's breaking up the flow of the game. i don't want to spend time in an old area picking up healing items. i want to press forward and kill this gatling gun jerk. but i can't because i have zero heals and i'm not certain i'll get enough by killing the dozen or so enemies in this area. even if i do want to grind this area i don't want to go the way with all the enemies b/c i've already picked up the treasures on that route. i can see this becoming a major problem on some of the tougher bosses

i've completely turned on parries being limited. i started using the repeating pistol because it seems demonstrably better than the starting pistol. however since i'm not guaranteed to get a steady supply of QS bullets and the repeating pistol uses 2 bullets a shot i'm discouraged from using it and have to stick with the poor starter pistol. it might be my play style since i prefer parrying to dodging. maybe i shouldn't parry so much

the flow of this game seems completely dependent on your stock of heals and parries and that's a very big issue for me since i hate grinding in games like these. does anyone have any tips for me? is there something i should be doing? i don't feel like i'm healing excessively. maybe the more-limited-than-it-appears healing mechanic is meant to force you to play more cautiously? but that goes against the speed of the game. i might not be taking advantage of rallying as much as i should since i tend to play with the whip form of the threaded cane and it seems to slow and weak to rally well

You may be trying to parry way too much if that's the case. I honestly only used my parry when I needed to top off health since when stunned and you hold down your heavy attack you can gain health when you follow up. The smaller dudes I'd dodge, the big guys that swing the bricks at you I'd try to parry.

Reminder you are starting off with a weapon that many consider the hardest weapon to start out with so that may be playing a little more into it as well. I've seen some people save that weapon for another playthrough. You may already know this but I focused on drawing the larger groups out and funneling them to an area where I can deal with them one on one like into a doorway, especially in that area you're in.

If you're running that low on your healing item then use your blood echos to buy them in the hunters dream until you're maxed out instead of just farming them off enemies, that ish takes forever. Do you have access to the blunderbuss? I could parry like crazy with that thing.

The area you're in is rough, and that dude at the top of the tower is not to be messed with, but he's easier than the hunter you'll find below, save that ish for later. Just remember when you climb to the top that both of you can fall, and I damn sure cheesed the shit out of him because he wrecked me quite a few times. I didn't find it as much as a grind as you are but I also started off with the saw blade so that may be why. Keep pushing though.

>You may be trying to parry way too much if that's the case.
>I honestly only used my parry when I needed to top off health
>since when stunned and you hold down your heavy attack you can
>gain health when you follow up. The smaller dudes I'd dodge,
>the big guys that swing the bricks at you I'd try to parry.

i think i'm wasting bullets learning parrying timings. dark souls has spoiled me! i'm going focus on dodging and see how it goes

>Reminder you are starting off with a weapon that many consider
>the hardest weapon to start out with so that may be playing a
>little more into it as well. I've seen some people save that
>weapon for another playthrough. You may already know this but
>I focused on drawing the larger groups out and funneling them
>to an area where I can deal with them one on one like into a
>doorway, especially in that area you're in.

yep. did this at the doorway that opens up into the plaza where the hunter is roaming. ended up with 7 bodies in there. almost took a screenshot of it b/c it was so ludicrous

>If you're running that low on your healing item then use your
>blood echos to buy them in the hunters dream until you're
>maxed out instead of just farming them off enemies, that ish
>takes forever. Do you have access to the blunderbuss? I could
>parry like crazy with that thing.

that's my upgrade money! i'm pouring points into strength in order to use the kirkhammer and later ludwig's blade so i'm not keen on "wasting" those blood echoes on consumables. but it might only take a run or two in the right area to get enough echoes for a good base of blood vials

i do not have access to the blunderbuss. should i have it by now? i went back and killed the cleric beast and i think that opened up a few items in the blood echoes shop. no blunderbuss in there though. i don't recall any alternate paths that i didn't take through central yarnham so i'm pretty sure i picked up everything. then again this is a miyazaki game so i'm sure i missed something

>The area you're in is rough, and that dude at the top of the
>tower is not to be messed with, but he's easier than the
>hunter you'll find below, save that ish for later. Just
>remember when you climb to the top that both of you can fall,
>and I damn sure cheesed the shit out of him because he wrecked
>me quite a few times. I didn't find it as much as a grind as
>you are but I also started off with the saw blade so that may
>be why. Keep pushing though.

this area actually didn't seem so bad until the hunter showed up. i think i can pull him into an isolated area and deal with him without having to worry about the gatling gun

>that's my upgrade money! i'm pouring points into strength in
>order to use the kirkhammer and later ludwig's blade so i'm
>not keen on "wasting" those blood echoes on consumables. but
>it might only take a run or two in the right area to get
>enough echoes for a good base of blood vials

If you farm the very first area I believe you'll have enough for the vials, that's what I did because its so easy. Don't really stress saving that much cause you'll gain so many later you won't know what to do with them.


>i do not have access to the blunderbuss. should i have it by
>now? i went back and killed the cleric beast and i think that
>opened up a few items in the blood echoes shop. no
>blunderbuss in there though. i don't recall any alternate
>paths that i didn't take through central yarnham so i'm pretty
>sure i picked up everything. then again this is a miyazaki
>game so i'm sure i missed something

I think the one I was talking about was the starter one. Think they give you two options, the pistol or the shotgun, I chose the shotgun. The thing about the parry is diffrent guys have different parry windows. As soon as I learned how to perfect the brick guys I had to deal with the wolves and learn that over again, so for awhile it just seems like you get wrecked until you get the hang of it. I will say towards the end I got a lot better, even to the point I could parry the hell out of most bosses.


>this area actually didn't seem so bad until the hunter showed
>up. i think i can pull him into an isolated area and deal
>with him without having to worry about the gatling gun
>

You can skip both. I cheesed the gatling gun dude and skipped the other hunter until later. Gatling gun dude I just let fall off the edge when he charged me.

>does anyone have any
>tips for me? is there something i should be doing? i don't
>feel like i'm healing excessively. maybe the
>more-limited-than-it-appears healing mechanic is meant to
>force you to play more cautiously? but that goes against the
>speed of the game. i might not be taking advantage of
>rallying as much as i should since i tend to play with the
>whip form of the threaded cane and it seems to slow and weak
>to rally well


Step 1: Accept that the game does want you to dodge like mad and not parry as much
Step 2: Ditch the Cane (you probably picked up the badge that unlocks all starting gear, so I recommend grabbing the Axe)
Step 3: Make sure you are using the various special items when appropriate (this is the best pebbles have ever been in a game)

More than anything, I think you're just getting to realize why Threaded Cane is not the ideal "learning to play Bloodborne" weapon.

Also, the "proper" route through Old Yarhnam is to enter the building you are on-top when he starts shooting at you. Going across the roof and dealing with the spear-hunter is more a shortcut.

And there are two shortcuts to unlock on the way to your destination (which isn't the dude with the gatling gun).

>Step 1: Accept that the game does want you to dodge like mad
>and not parry as much
>Step 2: Ditch the Cane (you probably picked up the badge that
>unlocks all starting gear, so I recommend grabbing the Axe)
>Step 3: Make sure you are using the various special items when
>appropriate (this is the best pebbles have ever been in a
>game)

1 and 3 i can do. i'm too stubborn to do 2 just yet. also i'm almost positive i didn't pick up that badge. apparently i missed something in central yarnham

>More than anything, I think you're just getting to realize why
>Threaded Cane is not the ideal "learning to play Bloodborne"
>weapon.

i am seeing that. i'm 4-5 levels from having the stats for the kirkhammer so when i meet that threshold i'm going to ditch the cane as my primary weapon

>Also, the "proper" route through Old Yarhnam is to enter the
>building you are on-top when he starts shooting at you. Going
>across the roof and dealing with the spear-hunter is more a
>shortcut.
>
>And there are two shortcuts to unlock on the way to your
>destination (which isn't the dude with the gatling gun).

ok. i'm going to do some more exploring. maybe i missed a door somewhere. thanks for the appropriately vague hints

story of my life

got the saw hunger badge and the ribbon. i think the ribbon is for the girl that gave me the music box. maybe she'll come back now. i'm sticking with the threaded cane until i get kirkhammer strong, mainly b/c paps and auk keep saying it's the hardest weapon to start with and now i feel like i can't back out and pick up one of the "easier" starting weapons. my s-ranking of dark souls leads me to believe that i can beat the 1st handful of bosses with the threaded cane

...it is the girl. Or what's left of her.

(It's just a cosmetic item for your bonfire-dudes.)

when i met you i had just moved to yarnham and didn't know anyone, really. i was literally broke, without a single blood echo to my name. and you were there, seemingly waiting for me. you were so attractive, with your occasional amazing curves on such a slender and intermittently tall frame. i leaned on you in hard times, and you on me. we built a solid foundation for what is to come. at least for one of us

i just have so many more options now than i did when i met you. i have all these blood echoes. radial blood gems are literally falling out of my pockets. i've been working out, getting stronger and building my endurance. kirkhammer, rifle spear, even past acquaintances like hunter axe are showing up at my doorstep

i'm sorry. i have to leave you. gehrman will take care of you. i promise we'll keep in touch. maybe we can go out once more in the future, for old times' sake

When game first released, the weapon "economy" was kinda fucked, so you couldn't easily upgrade weapons without dedicating hella hours to the Chalice Dungeons. But when I picked the game back when DLC dropped, I found they had done tons of things to improve player experience, including making it easy to purchase upgrade mats from both vendors in the dream.

And related to that, don't be conservative about spending Insight. There are some cool things that happen based on your insight value, but you get it with ease, so hit up the Insight vendor as you please.

however i just discovered that the rifle spear parry in two-handed mode so i may have found my weapon for the rest of the game. i've been using the kirkhammer on and off, mainly for the transformation animation but the "hammer" form seems a little ineffective. the sword form is pretty good though

>When game first released, the weapon "economy" was kinda
>fucked, so you couldn't easily upgrade weapons without
>dedicating hella hours to the Chalice Dungeons. But when I
>picked the game back when DLC dropped, I found they had done
>tons of things to improve player experience, including making
>it easy to purchase upgrade mats from both vendors in the
>dream.

cool. nice of the devs to open it up a bit more. i remember grinding quite a bit in DS and DS2 to get a new weapon acquired in the later parts of the game up to "usable" status. not fun

>And related to that, don't be conservative about spending
>Insight. There are some cool things that happen based on your
>insight value, but you get it with ease, so hit up the Insight
>vendor as you please.

i keep stockpiling the "hard" insight items and stay carrying 5+ "soft" insight. purchased a few things from the shop but nothing particularly expensive, interesting, or useful just yet beyond the multiplayer items. is it not recommended to go over the "weird stuff happens here" threshold too early in the game? i understand that 15+ (?) soft insight is where the changes happen

unrelated (maybe it is related to insight...): what in the world is that time/space rift near the old cathedral that only appears as you approach the body near the tree? is that how you start the DLC?

> is it not recommended to go
>over the "weird stuff happens here" threshold too early in the
>game? i understand that 15+ (?) soft insight is where the
>changes happen

I think there are three insight thresholds, probably at 15/30/45, plus other environmental alterations that happen after defeating certain bosses. For the most part increasing the insight threshold will slightly increase difficulty in various ways (like making you more susceptible to the frenzy debuff), while also enabling higher damage output if you can take advantage of beasthood. Conversely, low or nonexistent insight can make certain encounters hilariously easy.

>unrelated (maybe it is related to insight...): what in the
>world is that time/space rift near the old cathedral that only
>appears as you approach the body near the tree? is that how
>you start the DLC?

Yeah, that's for entering the DLC. And related to insight.

by the way SPOILERS!!!!!!
























mutha fuck the nightmare of mensis! i've been thoroughly enjoying this game. having a ball. then out of the clear blue, fuckin spiders! fuck spiders, man! i hate goddamn spiders! i put the game down every since i ran into them lol. bitch move, i know. imma start playing again and just focus on the dlc. but man, fuck a nightmare apostle!

You right about Nightmare Mensis but what I hated most were the brain trusts and they're creepy ass singing & the frenzy

finally made it past those punk ass spiders

i can't tell if the old hunter summon is helping. can't reliably find human summons to help

i can see in my mind how it's supposed to go but i'm having a lot of trouble simultaneously keeping an eye on rom, the spider i'm trying to kill, and the spiders approaching me. i'm wearing the highest arcane defense outfit i can slap together and the falling ice still hits me for 40% damage per hit. the tonitrus seems to be doing good damage to the spiders but its swing is so terrible that i don't want to use it. maybe i should just try running at rom solo and ignoring the spiders?

>maybe i should just try running at rom solo and ignoring
>the spiders?
>
>

You gotta go straight for him and go for as powerful attacks as you possibly can since time/luck aren't on your side

My tried and true formula is to kill the little spiders (they usually only take one or two strikes) and then focus on Rom. Tonitrus + Beast Blood Pellets can make short work of the dumb thing, but if you're not set up to take advantage of that, it's just a matter of recognizing which of three moves Rom can do.

Also, there are two NPC summons available for the fight, which can help with management of the little spiders, but two summons does cut into DPS quite a bit.

The falling ice attack he does is hard as fuck to dodge but its really doable it just has to be timed perfectly and dodged multiple times in a row.

There are multiple ways to beat him, but I found the easiest is to just kill all the spiders that show up first then go crazy on him.

What do you think about the difficulty of the game so far? Do you feel its hard but fair or a bit cheesy with the difficulty?

>The falling ice attack he does is hard as fuck to dodge but
>its really doable it just has to be timed perfectly and dodged
>multiple times in a row.

apparently you just run to avoid it. trying to time the dodges wasn't working well so i just tried running at an angle and that worked

>There are multiple ways to beat him, but I found the easiest
>is to just kill all the spiders that show up first then go
>crazy on him.

i ended up killing all the spiders on each phase. even with a tonitrus + 5 it took a while to kill rom

>What do you think about the difficulty of the game so far? Do
>you feel its hard but fair or a bit cheesy with the
>difficulty?

seems ok. about on par with dark souls. probably a little easier since the dodge is so strong. the times i've died to normal enemies it was totally my fault. there were a few times i died to bosses when i thought the game was being cheap. king blood scythe guy's slow moving exploding thing clipping through geometry to kill me, rom spamming falling ice, and the candle giant in chalice dungeon fucking meaty attacking me that one time. otherwise it's fine

i completed a NPC quest

missed eileen's, iosefka's, djura's, and young girl's

but i was able to complete alfred's by cheating and looking at a bloodborne wiki. now i have this sick wheel and pyramid head helmet

bloodborne's NPC quests seem more convoluted than dark souls' and much easier to miss. my memory is that i completed the siegmeyer or sieglinde quest on my first playthrough of dark souls but maybe that's b/c they kept showing up and telling me where they were going next

The Wheel is probably my favorite of the base game weapons. Just pancake fools and spin that wheel.

Not sure I agree that the NPC quests are convoluted; other than "Iosefka's" — which is part of something larger — the quests are basically just 2 steps max, and Eileen's doesn't even require visiting any sort of out-of-the-way or secret location.

Whereas shit like Solaire's in DS1 or Lucatiel's in DS2 is just a bunch of 12-step nonsense.

>i completed a NPC quest
>
>missed eileen's, iosefka's, djura's, and young girl's
>
>but i was able to complete alfred's by cheating and looking at
>a bloodborne wiki. now i have this sick wheel and pyramid
>head helmet
>
>bloodborne's NPC quests seem more convoluted than dark souls'
>and much easier to miss.

Yeah, I missed half the quests. I would make it to a new map and do it 'blind' and consult the wiki AFTER fighting my way to it's boss to try to clean up what I missed. As result I made more then my share of mistakes (messed up Alfred and I really wanted that weapon, aggro'ed Eileen the second I saw her, etc).

I miss that fancy electric hammer thing I had.

seems very supplemental, meaning not really something you'd base a build on but i suppose with the proper route you could get some of this stuff pretty early. could you do an arcane build with minimal stats required to wield a good fast weapon? idk how you'd have enough bullets for it though

augur of ebrietas is ridiculous. if it doesn't parry it knocks down. so sick. range and speed aren't great but this is becoming my go-to item in place of a firearm

old hunter bone seems ok? i guess it provides more i-frames? not using this much

executioner's gloves aren't very impressive. maybe with a high arcane stat they do much better damage?

Arcane builds are tricky to set up but pretty satisfying. The important thing to keep in mind is that every weapon technically has Arcane scaling, however it doesn't kick in until you've embedded an elemental gem (unless it's naturally Arcane, like The Wheel, Blades of Mercy, etc...).

So one way to approach it is to beat Blood-Starved Beast, grab the Ludwig badge from the Workshop Tower, and then drop down the tower to the lower streets where you can find an early Fire Gem. From there you get the minimum stats for the Holy Blade, infuse it with fire, and focus on Arcane. And once you kill Amelia you can grab Augur from the Nightmare and make a risky run to Cainhurst to grab the Executioner's Glove.

As an alternative to the Ludwig strat, you can try to just kill Eileen as soon as you meet her to get the Blades of Mercy early. But she's pretty tough. Sadly, what's-his-name doesn't acquire his Wheel until you do his quest, so killing him is fruitless.

i want to attach a status screen shot but i'm at work so i'll have to estimate my stats:

Lvl ~72

Vit 18
End 26
Str 18
Skill 26
Tinge ~22
Arcane 20

thinking back to my first dark souls playthrough i think i ended up with a similar build to the one above. it's kind of a middling "i want to try everything as i'm figuring out the game" build. it's not great but my refusal to put points into vit unless it's absolutely necessary helps a lot with damage output. (they can't damage me if i kill them first!) i only regret putting those last 2 points into arcane to see what the executioners gloves did. not worth it

i'm primarily using evelyn, chikage, and rifle spear. kind of underwhelmed by evelyn and transformed chikage but i also don't have a lot of points in tinge which is something i'm slowly correcting. my guess is that i'll beat the game with a 30/30 skill/tinge build and very few changes to the other stats

just made it to nightmare of mensis. still need to go back and kill amygdala in nightmare frontier. poked into the DLC and got destroyed by time/space distortion axe guy at the top of the stairs. my understanding is that there are some amazing weapons in the DLC and that i need to do the DLC before beating the final boss, wherever that is (probably not in mensis?)

where do i farm gems besides the chalice dungeons? i really don't like the chalice dungeons at all but i think i just need to spend more time in them to learn how the pieces can be sewn together, spelunky-style. but the chalice dungeons are the only place where you get alternate versions of weapons, right? is there a particular dungeon i should be running for loot?

>i only
>regret putting those last 2 points into arcane to see what the
>executioners gloves did. not worth it

Yeah, sadly the purely offensive spells are only worthwhile at very high Arcane. Apparently their damage scaling doesn't start to kick in until 25 Arcane, and then you basically need to at least 35 to actually make that scaling relevant. Augur is still great as all-purpose combat tool though.

>i'm primarily using evelyn, chikage, and rifle spear. kind of
>underwhelmed by evelyn and transformed chikage but i also
>don't have a lot of points in tinge which is something i'm
>slowly correcting. my guess is that i'll beat the game with a
>30/30 skill/tinge build and very few changes to the other
>stats

+10 Evelyn with 30 tinge should deal ~300 damage a shot, which is respectable deep into the Chalices. Using Marrow can kick that up to ~2K.


>
>just made it to nightmare of mensis. still need to go back
>and kill amygdala in nightmare frontier. poked into the DLC
>and got destroyed by time/space distortion axe guy at the top
>of the stairs. my understanding is that there are some
>amazing weapons in the DLC and that i need to do the DLC
>before beating the final boss, wherever that is (probably not
>in mensis?)

You'll be able to fight the final boss immediately after Mensis; it'll be very apparent. The reason you'll want to do DLC now is that its basically at NG+ difficulty by default, so it gets sorta unfun at higher iterations.


>where do i farm gems besides the chalice dungeons? i really
>don't like the chalice dungeons at all but i think i just need
>to spend more time in them to learn how the pieces can be sewn
>together, spelunky-style. but the chalice dungeons are the
>only place where you get alternate versions of weapons, right?
> is there a particular dungeon i should be running for loot?

Chalices are definitely the primary source of high quality gems. However, if you're stocked up on sedatives, you can farm Cursed Blood gems (which go in any slot) from the metroid-headed crazy critters that are on a bridge in Mensis.

I bought this a little over a year ago for about $20 when Sony was running a "spend $100, get $15 back" sale but bounced off of it right away back then and let it just sit in my backlog. But with the Return to Yarnham community event and PS+ free release, I figured now would be the best time to get back into the game and feel like it was brand new. While I have sussed out a couple solutions from wikis and old forum threads, I do enjoy how much this game activates the problem solving part of my brain, and the world is fucking incredible.


I'm only in the back half of the Cathedral Ward section from what I can tell (and I cleared out Old Yarnham primarily because I kept forgetting to purchase the key to the Vicar after BSB) and I've already put over 20 hours into this game. Originally because I just fucking sucked and stubbornly wanted to NOT suck, but now just because even ultimately pointless grinding through areas I've already seen a dozen times just has a certain charm to me. Great headphone game, great podcast game, great mind-games game, great mindless game. It gives all of it to you and switches it up just enough you can never stop thinking about what you'd do differently or why you failed at something that appeared so easy when you entered the scenario, only to die in three hits less than a minute in.


Bummed I missed this game at the outset, glad I finally found the feel for it!


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I can see how if your into the Souls game you might prefer the original Souls or Demon. But the atmosphere in Bloodborne is next level; its truly a gaming -=experience=-


>I'm only in the back half of the Cathedral Ward section from
>what I can tell (and I cleared out Old Yarnham primarily
>because I kept forgetting to purchase the key to the Vicar
>after BSB) and I've already put over 20 hours into this game.
>Originally because I just fucking sucked and stubbornly wanted
>to NOT suck, but now just because even ultimately pointless
>grinding through areas I've already seen a dozen times just
>has a certain charm to me. Great headphone game, great podcast
>game, great mind-games game, great mindless game. It gives all
>of it to you and switches it up just enough you can never stop
>thinking about what you'd do differently or why you failed at
>something that appeared so easy when you entered the scenario,
>only to die in three hits less than a minute in.
>
>
>Bummed I missed this game at the outset, glad I finally found
>the feel for it!
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~
>"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
>http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
>Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz