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Forum nameHigh-Tech
Topic subjectInteresting points to be had here...
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=11&topic_id=182449&mesg_id=182709
182709, Interesting points to be had here...
Posted by spenzalii, Sun Feb-22-09 07:47 PM
>
>>In ranked matches, you can see the opponent's name before
>the
>>match and kick them or reject the challenge. This allows you
>>to cherry pick who you fight and negates the entire purpose
>of
>>a ranked match.
>
>I agree. This is dumb. The whole going into certain matches
>system is dumb. I wish it was like HDR.

On the one hand, it makes some sense. If you know certain guys suck/are super cheesy, or waiting for someone specifically to fight, kick them out of your match (Setting the match up as a private match negates some of that, but still). But I can see where it can/will be abused.

>>In ranked matches (well, all matches) there is no double
>blind
>>character select. This means the optimum strategy is often
>to
>>wait until the opponent chooses first so you can
>counter-pick.
>>This is a very annoying situation.
>
>Eh, this is what the arcade is like. I'm ok with it not being
>double blind.

6 of one, 1/2 dozen the other. Used to it in the arcade and a 2p match at the crib. It does make an interesting dynamic online though, which is nice. But, if you're good, you should be able to beat whomever with your character. Doesn't always hold true, but I'm saying...

>>When lag inevitably happens in an online fighting game,
>there
>>are different ways to handle it. Some SF4 matches I played
>had
>>large input delay, maybe as high as 15 frames. This is the
>>time between your button press and seeing the effect happen.
>>Adding input delay is really the worst way to handle lag.
>>GGPO's amazing netcode shows that avoiding input delay and
>>hiding lag in other ways is the way to go. That technology
>has
>>been readily available for years, so it's disappointing to
>>feel input delay in an online match.
>
>I've had some absolutely horrid matches in HDR. The in game
>experience in 4 has been much better, but I see what he's
>saying. Still, for actually fighting, I prefer 4 over HDR if
>only for the lack of glitches (black screen, life bars etc.)

Eh. methinks this one is a bit subjective as well. Is the netcode for SF4 bad? No. Is it better than HD:R? Can't say. Had problems with both, which can simply be chalked up to being online in the first place. Fighting games do require more precision timing than any genre of online gaming (at least, I would think), so the strides that both games have made are nothing short of amazing. Most of the time, you don't notice unless it's a glaring glitch/screen freeze.

>>The button config screen is "the wrong way." The right way
>is
>>for the screen to list functions, then you press the buttons
>>you want to assign. The wrong way is to list buttons, then
>you
>>scroll through lists of functions to assign. The reason that
>>one way is right and the other way is wrong is pretty clear
>>when you watch people try to configure buttons. I've had to
>>watch what must be thousands of people do this over the
>years
>>in all the tournaments I've helped run (not to mention local
>>gatherings). When the config screen says "Jab" and requires
>>you to press the button you want, you just press the upper
>>left button on your stick (or whatever button on your
>>gamepad). This is a one-step process. But if the screen
>lists
>>"X" and then requires you to scroll through functions until
>>you find jab, it requires a two step process. You have to
>know
>>which button on your controller is labeled "X." When this
>>screen is the right way, no one has to know if the upper
>left
>>button happens to be X or A or B or whatever else.
>
>Yup. I agree with this one.

Agreed. the only thing that kind of config screen is good for is mapping special moves (throws, focus, 3xp or 3xk) to one button. Which, I suppose, is why they went to that setup in the first place. A necessary evil due to play mechanics, maybe? Still don't like it.


>
>>Next is the 2-button throw, a bad idea in fighting games
>with
>>2D gameplay. 3D Fighting games are different beasts, so they
>>are excused here, but note that even Dead or Alive offers a
>>macro to turn its 2 button throw into a 1 button throw...and
>>maps that macro to a face button by default. Anyway, 2
>button
>>throws solve a non-problem that no one has ever actually
>had.
>>That's the problem of accidentally throwing and being sad
>>about it. Street Fighter 2, Guilty Gear series, and Street
>>Fighter Alpha 2 all demonstrated that 1 button throws work
>>just fine and don't actually create any problems. Adding a
>>second button press just adds complexity where it's not
>>necessary, and helps nothing. (Edit: it does add a throw
>whiff
>>which could be a good thing, but simpler is still better...)
>
>I agree. Don't like this one bit.

This and the focus attack makes the game extremely difficult to play on a pad. I usually have the short/jab mapped to the R1/L1, and if I hit both, 8 out of 10 times I get a kick instead of a throw. The throw command is bogus and I can't see any reason why it has to be 2 buttons.

>
>>Other non-problems we might solve in 2D fighting games would
>>be to make blocking 1 button and jumping 1 button (each are
>>traditionally zero buttons). We certainly could add those
>>button presses, but it would make more sense to reduce the
>>button presses to as few as possible: zero to jump, zero to
>>block, and one to throw.
>
>Disagree, and I don't like his idea at all.
>
>>Edit: I forgot to mention two more things. First, the
>unlocks.
>>I'm very surprised to see basic functionality of the
>>multiplayer game--the characters--locked behind tedious 1p
>>tasks. I had to pay a tax of fighting the computer on
>easiest
>>for long time just to get the core features of the game. (I
>>did this picture-in-picture while watching episodes of
>>Frasier.) I'm fully aware that casual players love unlocks,
>>and that's why non-essential content like costumes, movies,
>>icons, and titles are all perfectly fine to give as rewards
>>for playing 1p content. But the *characters*? This steps on
>>the toes of those wanting to play the multiplayer game by
>>making our first experience with the game a very boring one.
>I
>>wanted to hire a MMO gold farmer to do this for me.
>
>100% agree on this part.

That's funny. I can see giving people a reason to play the 1p campaign. All the other unlocks (medals, colors, stances, etc) should have done it. If you want the big guns to be unlocks (Akuma, Gouken, Seth), I'll give you that. But I shouldn't be forced to use C. Viper (man I hate using her) or any of the new characters I may have no interest in to unlock anyone .

Even though his post can be sour grapes (coming from a designer who's game just got knocked from the fighting spotlight), most of his gripes had merit. I would like to hear some of the nice things he has to say about the game.