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Subject: "Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up...." Previous topic | Next topic
AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 09:11 AM

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"Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up...."


  

          

First... many Israeli soldiers have died before. In fact, one little known fact is the main reason suicide bombers were targeting buses in Israel is because that is the main mode of transportation for soldiers....

However... this was deliberately put in place so that Israel could go foward with it's campaign.

First...
Hamas agrees to put down their weapons and join in democratic elections. (I thought that was the point... put down their weapons?)
They won.
Israel would not recognize them. (so what was the point of elections?)
Then... Israel openly tried to ask them to leave even after they won by the support of the people.
In fact if you followed the elections... originally Israel said they'd lost by a landslide... when in fact they'd won by a landslide.
Ok cool.
Then... Israel started creeping back into the gaza strip.
They got the US to state that Hamas needed to recognize Israel.
What? What did that have to do with the price of the tea in China?
Absolutely nothing... it was rhetoric to get more sympathy votes... you see it's sorta like the black muslim campaign here... you don't actually have to do nothing but enough press reports, breaking news coverages, and just mentioning black muslims in the same context with terrorism eventuall people are dumb enough to equate the two without knowing anything factual. Facts mean nothing in this hypertechnological world. Sensationalism is everything.
Cool.
Then, small scale violence breaks out between Israel and Palestine... ok cool.
Israel claims an Israeli soldier was kidnapped. Um..by whom? Hamas never claimed to have anything to do with it... right?
Almost immediately Israel kidnaps key ELECTED officials of the Hamas government.
Then... in a calculated move...
THE US BLAMES IRAN AND SYRIA.
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE SLOW FOLKS... THE US BLAMES IRAN AND SYRIA.
ISRAEL BLAMES LEBANON.
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.... FOR THE SLOW FOLKS. THE US BLAMES IRAN AND SYRIA. ISRAEL BLAMES LEBANON.
You see... this campaign to dominate the middle east to have control over oil... is working for them. here's how.
Up until this... Iraq and Afghanistan were considered disasters... now they will win sympathy votes cause the jews will claim... per usual... (strings please) persecution. This is obviously a case of a unlevelled playing field. Poor people versus extremely wealthy people. This is foul. Watch how it will serve it's purpose for Zionists and Religious Right Wingers in the US.

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
oh its definitely sickening...E.U. does absolutely nothing...
Jul 13th 2006
1
It's is sick and it's time people call that shit out...
Jul 13th 2006
4
the UN's a contradiction
Jul 13th 2006
6
U.S. vetoed U.N. condemnation of Israel today
Jul 13th 2006
13
      that's some gay ass shit
Jul 13th 2006
14
      my thoughts exactly ...gay... i couldn't have put it better
Jul 13th 2006
16
      exactly...
Jul 14th 2006
23
      i was sarcastic about the use of "gay" as a negative adjective
Jul 14th 2006
30
      LOL! I think he was quoting his idol-bush
Aug 15th 2006
192
      I agree
Jul 14th 2006
42
      Besides meaningless U.N. resolutions...
Jul 17th 2006
63
           How can they?
Jul 17th 2006
64
                do you have a breakdown by country/destination etc?
Jul 17th 2006
68
                     Corrupt Palestinian leaders? And Israel isn't Corrupt? LOL!
Jul 17th 2006
71
                          I asked an honest question
Jul 17th 2006
72
                               Why don't you research it, and get back to us?
Jul 18th 2006
77
                                    RE: Why don't you research it, and get back to us?
Jul 18th 2006
82
                                    Muslim governments don't do shit for Palestine
Jul 18th 2006
84
                                         Um... first NO ONE orders Aqua.... period white boy....
Jul 18th 2006
85
                                         RE: Um... first NO ONE orders Aqua.... period white boy....
Jul 18th 2006
86
                                         zionism is now a conspiracy theory? LOL....
Jul 18th 2006
90
                                              ZIONISM
Jul 18th 2006
93
                                                   Your ridiculously foolish.. it's time I stop entertaining your slow ass
Jul 18th 2006
96
                                                        funny
Jul 18th 2006
101
                                                             Zionism = Nazism... I said it... and it stays.
Jul 21st 2006
118
                                         lol. tough guy.
Jul 19th 2006
107
                                         Not about being Tough... it's about being Respected...
Jul 25th 2006
153
                                         What do you mean 'not allowed'?
Jul 26th 2006
161
                                         Arab governments were allowed to fund the PA
Aug 07th 2006
178
                                              and I'm still not impressed.
Aug 18th 2006
197
                                         other Arabs don't particularly care for the Palestinians
Aug 04th 2006
170
                                              ^^^^True^^^^
Aug 05th 2006
172
                                                   RE: ^^^^True^^^^
Aug 05th 2006
173
                                                        RE: ^^^^True^^^^
Aug 05th 2006
174
                                                             You are disgusting on so many levels...
Aug 07th 2006
176
RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up....
Jul 13th 2006
2
9,000 PALESTINIANS HELD CAPTIVE WITHOUT REASON...
Jul 13th 2006
3
Israel claims hundreds of hits in Lebanon - how can this be fair?
Jul 13th 2006
5
who takes responsibility?
Jul 13th 2006
7
My proof is common sense... and a working knowledge of what's
Jul 13th 2006
8
Israel has never preferred moderation from it's enemies.
Jul 13th 2006
9
Stands up and APPLAUDS... EXCELLENT...
Jul 13th 2006
10
Amen! PREACH!
Jul 14th 2006
26
the ill part is it's not even a secret anymore...
Jul 14th 2006
27
As ALWAYS..HoChiGrimm comes with the CONCISE commentary...
Jul 21st 2006
129
      Likewise... respect to you both...
Jul 24th 2006
139
      Yup Hochigrimm... good look...
Aug 23rd 2006
208
RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up....
Jul 13th 2006
11
there may have been an actual kidnapping, but that's no excuse
Jul 13th 2006
12
Hitler is rolling in his grave.
Jul 13th 2006
15
ahhh you middle class americans
Jul 14th 2006
17
      and we shouldn't get it if it's coming from you or anyone who thinks
Jul 14th 2006
18
      RE: and we shouldn't get it if it's coming from you or anyone who thinks
Jul 14th 2006
21
           SPIT...
Jul 14th 2006
22
                look at your enemy
Jul 14th 2006
24
                     I have no enemies... only the devil will tell you that you do...
Jul 14th 2006
25
      Uhhh...
Jul 19th 2006
109
      SPM's from the hood, ock
Aug 04th 2006
171
      uh, aren't you originally from america?
Aug 14th 2006
189
           Queens NY
Aug 15th 2006
190
                you keep talking about "you americans"
Aug 15th 2006
191
                     yeah sometimes i have identity issues
Aug 15th 2006
193
                          fair enough
Aug 15th 2006
194
                               Now how about a kiss?
Aug 15th 2006
195
                               damn it looks like we agree on two things... in one post...
Aug 18th 2006
198
what else is new
Jul 14th 2006
19
basically... but here is what's new...
Jul 14th 2006
20
      true
Jul 14th 2006
32
           Sun... World War III started with operation Infinite Justice...
Jul 14th 2006
39
                infinite justice=perpetual war...
Jul 15th 2006
46
Hey Israel! I love your logic regarding security defense.
Jul 14th 2006
28
Basically...
Jul 14th 2006
29
^^^^^^^^
Jul 14th 2006
31
Maybe nobody will kidnap israeli's again
Jul 14th 2006
33
      after all the soldiers killed in conflict you have to be an idiot...
Jul 14th 2006
34
           RE: after all the soldiers killed in conflict you have to be an idiot...
Jul 14th 2006
35
                We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 14th 2006
36
                     RE: We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 14th 2006
37
                          RE: We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 14th 2006
38
                          HE'S NOT GOING TO ANSWER...
Jul 14th 2006
41
                          RE: HE'S NOT GOING TO ANSWER...
Jul 14th 2006
43
                          RE: We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 15th 2006
48
                               RE: We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 16th 2006
52
                          RE: We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 14th 2006
40
                               RE: We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 14th 2006
44
                               Let HIM explain for him...
Jul 17th 2006
54
                                    No its not
Jul 17th 2006
60
                                         Your argument is foolish...
Jul 17th 2006
66
                               RE: We are not discussing Iran...
Jul 15th 2006
50
                                    How do I know Palestinians were there first?
Jul 17th 2006
55
                                         RE: How do I know Palestinians were there first?
Jul 17th 2006
59
                                              RE: How do I know Palestinians were there first?
Jul 18th 2006
88
                                                   Basically... I didn't want to write that again, thanks for writing...
Jul 18th 2006
91
                                                   actually, it wasn't a country
Jul 18th 2006
102
                                                        RE: actually, it wasn't a country
Jul 19th 2006
108
                                                             not the same
Jul 19th 2006
110
                                                                  RE: not the same
Jul 19th 2006
111
                                                                       you shut that down...
Jul 21st 2006
112
                                                                       can you source that?
Jul 23rd 2006
133
                                                                            These are a couple...
Jul 23rd 2006
134
                                                                                 shut down again.
Jul 24th 2006
136
                                                                                 it was never an independent sovereign nation(not that it really matters)
Aug 07th 2006
179
RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up....
Jul 15th 2006
45
they are the new Nazi's...
Jul 17th 2006
56
      No they arent
Jul 17th 2006
61
           Um... that proves you are stupid... perhaps you missed
Jul 17th 2006
67
                perhaps you missed
Jul 18th 2006
76
                     you said that nazis were long gone,so I blew your spot up
Jul 18th 2006
80
                          Noo...
Jul 18th 2006
81
                               Um... remove all biblical context... and deal with reality...
Jul 18th 2006
83
                               Unfortunately I had a lot of work to do or...
Jul 18th 2006
99
good point, this illuminates some important things...
Jul 15th 2006
47
RE: good point, this illuminates some important things...
Jul 15th 2006
49
ok, just assume Israel didn't set this up, and what should Israel have d...
Jul 16th 2006
51
RE: ok, just assume Israel didn't set this up, and what should Israel ha...
Jul 16th 2006
53
Basically...
Jul 17th 2006
58
      ... "we"?
Aug 07th 2006
181
           Um... what's the problem?
Aug 22nd 2006
204
How about we don't assume...
Jul 17th 2006
57
I'll accept your challenge
Jul 17th 2006
62
      Newt Gingrich calls this the beginning of World War III
Jul 17th 2006
65
      that's always a good sign
Jul 17th 2006
69
      you are missing the point...
Jul 17th 2006
70
           ok, so how are Russia, China, or India involved in this?
Aug 07th 2006
180
      RE: Newt Gingrich calls this the beginning of World War III // HE
Jul 18th 2006
94
      I appreciate the response
Jul 18th 2006
100
           several thoughts...
Jul 21st 2006
114
           Isreal, unlike hezbolla, hamas or the Lebanese
Jul 23rd 2006
132
                Several things.. first.. Israel are liars...
Jul 24th 2006
141
i don't see too many people condeming the fundamentalists...
Jul 18th 2006
73
It's hard to find much fault with a just resistance movement.
Jul 18th 2006
74
They are.
Jul 18th 2006
78
RE: i don't see too many people condeming the fundamentalists...
Jul 18th 2006
87
      I could not agree more...
Jul 18th 2006
89
the visual propaganda on new york newspapers
Jul 18th 2006
75
consistant with most media outlets
Jul 18th 2006
79
      I love how the naysayers won't even touch that... LOL... also
Jul 18th 2006
92
*** I do not know....But My First Thought **** Ariel Sharon
Jul 18th 2006
95
Ariel Sharon blames Lebanon and Syria...
Jul 18th 2006
97
      RE: Ariel Sharon blames Lebanon and Syria...
Jul 18th 2006
98
RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up....
Jul 18th 2006
103
Everything is a set up huh?
Jul 18th 2006
104
please provide a source that Hezbelloh or Hamas admitted it.
Jul 21st 2006
113
      RE: please provide a source that Hezbelloh or Hamas admitted it.
Jul 21st 2006
116
           RE: please provide a source that Hezbelloh or Hamas admitted it.
Jul 21st 2006
117
           Mind you Israel has 9,000 Palestinians held captive...
Jul 21st 2006
120
           Mind you Israel has 9,000 Palestinians held captive...
Jul 21st 2006
121
                Maybe Hasan Nasrallah works for Mossad
Jul 21st 2006
122
                Maybe Bush works for Israel... and Israel works for Bush?
Jul 21st 2006
123
                     Bush also works for the Freemason society and is chairman of that group
Jul 21st 2006
124
                          Um... be stupid all you want... the fact is he fucked up the world...
Jul 21st 2006
125
                               There were conflicts in those regions before he opened his mouth
Jul 21st 2006
126
                How do you come to that conclusion?
Jul 21st 2006
127
                     You have to be kidding me... it sounds like you want Israel to be
Jul 24th 2006
144
           Hugo Chavez violent parade was all over the news too my friend
Jul 21st 2006
119
                RE: Hugo Chavez violent parade was all over the news too my friend
Jul 21st 2006
128
                     ACtually you are so far off base it's unreal... let me educate you
Jul 24th 2006
142
RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up....// Flip The Script..........
Jul 19th 2006
105
>>>>>>>"Monkey See Monkey Do"<<<<<<<<<
Jul 19th 2006
106
Yeah... Um they got the actors back... oops I mean the soldiers...
Jul 21st 2006
115
RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up..../// NoooO
Jul 21st 2006
130
You know one that's married? Surely you can't be serious...
Jul 24th 2006
140
      RE: You know one that's married? Surely you can't be serious...
Jul 24th 2006
146
           but you see... this is too basic... as if anything a soldier does came
Aug 18th 2006
199
another explanation
Jul 22nd 2006
131
basically... this is precalculated to start a war with Syria
Jul 24th 2006
135
      RE: basically... this is precalculated to start a war with Syria
Jul 24th 2006
137
           Yet Bush blames both Syria and Iran for Hezbollah... and...
Jul 24th 2006
138
           Ok folks... time for specifics...
Jul 24th 2006
143
           RE: Yet Bush blames both Syria and Iran for Hezbollah... and...
Jul 24th 2006
145
                yes.
Jul 25th 2006
148
           RE: basically... this is precalculated to start a war with Syria
Jul 24th 2006
147
                Israel using Human Shields and other things - From the BBC"
Jul 25th 2006
149
                     "Un calls Israel's use of force 'disproportionate'"
Jul 25th 2006
150
                     How interesting that you would post an article from the BBC
Jul 25th 2006
151
                          Um... why are you so focused on me AGAIN today?
Jul 25th 2006
152
                               WANNA KNOW WHAT IRONY IS?
Jul 25th 2006
154
                               How conceited of you
Jul 25th 2006
155
                                    Ok so you find me conceited... next caller... Lol.
Jul 25th 2006
156
                                         I love how they attack me... but not the issues... from the BBC
Jul 26th 2006
157
                                              More ...
Jul 26th 2006
158
                                                   this is why no one can take the title"leader of bizzaro world" -
Jul 26th 2006
160
                                                        whatever.. your still just focused on me...
Jul 27th 2006
162
                                                             RE: whatever.. your still just focused on me...
Jul 27th 2006
164
                                                                  your aim was on my opinion... you didn't bring anything to the table
Jul 27th 2006
165
                                                                       If you are correct, then just answer this one question
Jul 27th 2006
167
                                                                            It was a set up.. Israel kidnapped several people first... AND
Jul 28th 2006
168
                                                                                 Also, where is the video of the kidnapped soldier?
Jul 28th 2006
169
huh?
Jul 26th 2006
159
maybe hamas? so you think one has but you don't know there name
Jul 27th 2006
163
      TO THINK THEY JUST SAID THEY WERE GOING TO FALLBACK
Jul 27th 2006
166
yeah....
Aug 07th 2006
175
basically, they throwing Iran and Syria's name around like
Aug 07th 2006
177
      yeah, i peeped that meet the press show
Aug 07th 2006
182
      RE: basically, they throwing Iran and Syria's name around like
Aug 08th 2006
183
           Actually, I have been saying this for YEARS... not months
Aug 08th 2006
184
           You are my sunshine
Aug 09th 2006
185
                First of all I'm not backing anyone... that's the problem with your mind
Aug 11th 2006
186
                     suck my underdeveloped
Aug 12th 2006
188
                          just ridiculous and childish... and underdeveloped. Lol.
Aug 18th 2006
196
                               ahhh go suck some dick racist
Aug 19th 2006
200
                                    you do realize everytime you open your mouth...
Aug 22nd 2006
202
                                         shut up
Aug 23rd 2006
205
                                              As I was saying about Israel being obsessive and FOUL...
Aug 23rd 2006
207
                                                   shut up
Aug 23rd 2006
209
           those two countries, just like Lebanon and Iraq have done nothing
Aug 11th 2006
187
You're right: (swipe)
Aug 19th 2006
201
Thank you for this... wonderful article...
Aug 22nd 2006
203
      sig worthy
Aug 23rd 2006
206

Abdurrashid
Member since Jun 20th 2002
15912 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 09:59 AM

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1. "oh its definitely sickening...E.U. does absolutely nothing..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The U.N. is scared to condemn these acts of aggression by Israel let alone voice a real opinion about this crisis.

And people wonder why there's so much animosity towards the west?


"The camel never sees its own hump but that of its brothers is always before its eyes"- N.African proverb

***The OKMuhajideen***

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 11:18 AM

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4. "It's is sick and it's time people call that shit out..."
In response to Reply # 1
Thu Jul-13-06 11:18 AM by AquamansWrath

  

          

soldier dissapears...
kill 40 Palestinians and
bomb the Beirut airport? HUH???????????????????

AllHiphop.com
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Bling47.com
Fader.com



Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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kanino
Member since May 02nd 2006
3644 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 11:45 AM

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6. "the UN's a contradiction"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I'm waiting til the day the world realizes that it can sustain itself without the US.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://twitter.com/sun_dalo
xbl: s/n

  

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rawsouthpaw
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14266 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 06:58 PM

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13. "U.S. vetoed U.N. condemnation of Israel today"
In response to Reply # 1


          

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4045650.html

July 13, 2006, 5:19PM
U.S. vetoes U.N. condemnation of Israel


By NICK WADHAMS Associated Press Writer
© 2006 The Associated Press

UNITED NATIONS — The United States blocked an Arab-backed resolution Thursday that would have demanded Israel halt its military offensive in the Gaza Strip, the first U.N. Security Council veto in nearly two years.

The draft, sponsored by Qatar on behalf of other Arab nations, accused Israel of a "disproportionate use of force" that endangered Palestinian civilians, and demanded Israel withdraw its troops from Gaza.

The United States was alone in voting against the resolution. Ten of the 15 Security Council nations voted in favor, while Britain, Denmark, Peru and Slovakia abstained.

The U.S. has periodically used its veto to block resolutions critical of Israel. The last council veto, in October 2004, was cast when the United States blocked a resolution condemning another Israeli operation in Gaza.

The draft was reworked repeatedly to address concerns that it was too biased against Israel. Language was added calling for the release of an abducted soldier and urging the Palestinians to stop firing rockets at Israel.

Nonetheless, U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said it was still unacceptable because it had been overtaken by events in the region _ including the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah militants on Wednesday _ and was "unbalanced."

"It placed demands on one side in the Middle East conflict but not the other," Bolton said. "This draft resolution would have exacerbated tensions in the region."

Israel launched the operation two weeks ago in response to the June 25 capture of an Israeli soldier, 19-year-old Cpl. Gilad Shalit.

The resolution called on Israel and the Palestinians to "take immediate steps to create the necessary condition for the resumption of negotiation and restarting the peace process." It urged all parties to help alleviate the "dire humanitarian situation" faced by Palestinians.

The United States sought a text that said the Israeli actions were in direct response to rocket attacks against Israel and Shalit's capture.

Bolton said the United States remains "gravely concerned" at the escalation of the conflict and believes the best way to calm the situation is for Hamas to release Shalit.

The draft also demanded Israel release the Palestinian officials it has arrested.

The Palestinian observer to the U.N., Riyad Mansour, said he was disappointed with the council's "continued inability to act while innocent Palestinian civilians continue to be brutally killed by the Israeli occupying forces."

Referring to past U.S. practice of vetoing similar resolutions, Mansour said the council is failing the Palestinians. In Gaza, the Palestinian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Taher al-Nunu, said the United States must bear some responsibility for Israel's attacks.

"The veto is a political cover for the crimes of the occupation, and regrettably, instead of putting war criminals of this government that lost its mind on trial, they are giving a political cover to carry out more of these crimes," al-Nunu said.

In a speech to the council immediately following Mansour, Israel's U.N. Ambassador Dan Gillerman thanked the U.S. for its "bold stand." He defended Israel's actions and put the blame for attacks against Israel squarely on Iran and Syria.

"What we are seeing are the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah, but they are merely the fingers of the bloodstained hands and the executioners of the twisted minds of the leaders of the world's most ominous axis of terror, Syria and Iran," he said.

Eight of the last nine vetoes in the council have been cast by the United States. Of those, seven concerned the Israel-Palestinian conflict.




----------------------------
Some of my photos from Cuba:
www.flickr.com/photos/workshopvisuals/sets/729092/

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Galatasaray
Member since May 11th 2006
14227 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 09:56 PM

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14. "that's some gay ass shit"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

fuck Bush

  

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rawsouthpaw
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14266 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 11:06 PM

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16. "my thoughts exactly ...gay... i couldn't have put it better"
In response to Reply # 14


          


----------------------------
Some of my photos from Cuba:
www.flickr.com/photos/workshopvisuals/sets/729092/

www.printroom.com/pro/workshop

www.myspace.com/rawsouthpaw

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 10:19 AM

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23. "exactly..."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

and obvious.

AllHiphop.com
3121.com
Wardolphin.com
Afropunk.com
Bling47.com
Fader.com



Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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rawsouthpaw
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14266 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 11:53 AM

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30. "i was sarcastic about the use of "gay" as a negative adjective"
In response to Reply # 23


          

everything else applies


----------------------------
Some of my photos from Cuba:
www.flickr.com/photos/workshopvisuals/sets/729092/

www.printroom.com/pro/workshop

www.myspace.com/rawsouthpaw

  

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explizit
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9990 posts
Tue Aug-15-06 02:28 PM

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192. "LOL! I think he was quoting his idol-bush"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I think bush said Hezbollah was gay.

http://myspace.com/bambumusic

www.individualsole.com

http://www.individualsole.com/?p=5256

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGH3OuP9Sek

  

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Zion3Lion
Member since Dec 23rd 2002
15784 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 06:15 PM

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42. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

but it wouldn't have mattered if it was Bush, or Gore, or Kerry or even Barack Obama in the Presidential office, the result would have been the same.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-17-06 10:23 AM

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63. "Besides meaningless U.N. resolutions..."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

what have these Arab nations done to help Palestine?

>The draft, sponsored by Qatar on behalf of other Arab nations...

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Jul-17-06 12:54 PM

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64. "How can they?"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

How can they when Bush and Sharon stated that if any arab nation assisted them it would be assisting terrorism?

They recieve humanitarian aid that is monitored by Israel...
even their water
electricity
food
and roads are monitored... they have to wear a pass to use certain roads into Israel to work... sound familiar?

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-17-06 02:24 PM

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68. "do you have a breakdown by country/destination etc?"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

>They recieve humanitarian aid that is monitored by Israel...
>even their water
>electricity
>food
>and roads are monitored...

I am curious what concrete steps the nations in the region are taking to better the lives of Palestinians. Or are they as happy to give money to corrupt Palestinian leaders as many Western donors are?

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Jul-17-06 04:13 PM

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71. "Corrupt Palestinian leaders? And Israel isn't Corrupt? LOL!"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

Wow...

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-17-06 04:51 PM

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72. "I asked an honest question"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

Can you go further into depth on any money given by Arab nations to Palestine for development?

As far as I'm concerned both Israel and Palestine have horribly corrupt leaders. But my question was about money given to Palestine. I'm already familiar with the billions the US gives Israel.

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-18-06 09:17 AM

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77. "Why don't you research it, and get back to us?"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

you would learn and you could share all in one punch..
??

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Tue Jul-18-06 09:54 AM

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82. "RE: Why don't you research it, and get back to us?"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          


Thats a good question, where did the hundreds of millions of dollars that the PLO got for thier upcoming nation go?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-18-06 10:08 AM

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84. "Muslim governments don't do shit for Palestine"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

that's what my research has taught me.

Now, either defend the point YOU MADE or keep your mouth shut and let others talk.

Thanks.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-18-06 10:32 AM

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85. "Um... first NO ONE orders Aqua.... period white boy...."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

and that was so mighty white of you...
obviously your education is as foolish as your tongue and your conditioning.
If anyone should shut up and try to learn it's YOU.
First, you obviously are not aware of the dynamics of Israel to Palestine... but that doesn't surprise me.
Most Arab countries (Muslim governments.. haha... dumb ass)
are not allowed and were not allowed to offer Palestine help because of what was going on with Hamas... it was an obvious ploy to keep the poor poorer.

Basically for the slow people, what's going on with Palestine is no different than what was going on in South Africa with aparthied...
Israel being Sun City... Palestine being your shanty towns.
NO DIFFERENCE.
The only difference is Palestine fought back, unfortunately by using violent tactics... but poverty has a way of bringing that out of people.
Israel has controlled Palestine's
Water supply
Electricity
Food
you name it... for a country that wants respect it has to learn to allow it's neighbors to govern themselves. They have that right.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Tue Jul-18-06 11:35 AM

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86. "RE: Um... first NO ONE orders Aqua.... period white boy...."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

>and that was so mighty white of you...
>obviously your education is as foolish as your tongue and your
>conditioning.
>If anyone should shut up and try to learn it's YOU.
>First, you obviously are not aware of the dynamics of Israel
>to Palestine... but that doesn't surprise me.
>Most Arab countries (Muslim governments.. haha... dumb ass)
>are not allowed and were not allowed to offer Palestine help
>because of what was going on with Hamas... it was an obvious
>ploy to keep the poor poorer.
>
>Basically for the slow people, what's going on with Palestine
>is no different than what was going on in South Africa with
>aparthied...

SAME old zionist conspiracy theory points, bring something new.
your loosing it again.

There was shit going down in south africa, and some Israelies thought "shit, this might be a good time to buy some diamonds in the middle of all this shit, the price could be low"

thats it...


>Israel being Sun City... Palestine being your shanty towns.
>NO DIFFERENCE.
>The only difference is Palestine fought back, unfortunately by
>using violent tactics... but poverty has a way of bringing
>that out of people.
>Israel has controlled Palestine's
>Water supply
>Electricity
>Food
>you name it... for a country that wants respect it has to
>learn to allow it's neighbors to govern themselves. They have
>that right.
>
>

Not controlled the water,elec,food, but SUPPLIED water,gas,elec,food

Its free!!!!!



~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-18-06 12:42 PM

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90. "zionism is now a conspiracy theory? LOL...."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

funny...
I was just building with my Jewish homegirl this morning who attended school in Israel... and has dedicated most of her life to helping Palestine, removing the occupation of the gaza, empowering the people of Palestine, turning back the RACIST laws of ISRAEL, demanding the WALL be pulled down, and fighting off her Family who pushes the Zionist/Nazi movement.

Oh and YOU are telling someone to bring something new to the table...
please tell me more jokes! LOL... oh you are a funny mufucka...
YOU? hahahaha... wow.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Tue Jul-18-06 01:53 PM

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93. "ZIONISM"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

>funny...
>I was just building with my Jewish homegirl this morning who
>attended school in Israel... and has dedicated most of her
>life to helping Palestine, removing the occupation of the
>gaza, empowering the people of Palestine, turning back the
>RACIST laws of ISRAEL, demanding the WALL be pulled down, and
>fighting off her Family who pushes the Zionist/Nazi movement.

thats some friend you got there, im happy that you have a friend that has a family that pushes the Zionist/Nazi movement.
maybe you could move to israel and try to change it from here, closer.





>Oh and YOU are telling someone to bring something new to the
>table...
>please tell me more jokes! LOL... oh you are a funny
>mufucka...
>YOU? hahahaha... wow.


naaa man, i dont look good in the light either...

but the zionist/nazi movement could have ties to jews, the jewish, with thier money right, and how they do things with money right? and that they are alive, and they have a land to live in, surrounded by enemies, and nobody never gives them the day of light.
right?
this aint make beleive , check it out, ppl want us dead yo.
you said so yourself...
on post 67...

wtf is eloheem city though?



~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-18-06 03:41 PM

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96. "Your ridiculously foolish.. it's time I stop entertaining your slow ass"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

like for real.
You are a RACIST.
You are EVIL.
And you are not welcomed to speak with me from this point...
I only spoke to you to entertain myself but that ends here....
it's your racist, supremist, zionist take that is why the world is out of control today...

read

Zionism = Nazi...

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-18-06 07:02 PM

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101. "funny"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

some thoughts from reading this exchange...

1. you brought race into this one when smutsboy came at you. and, to me, it looks like in this thread you've done exactly what you claim white people do to black people. you've even set limits on who can post and how. impressive.

2. from an earlier comment aqua wrote: "I was just building with my Jewish homegirl this morning who attended school in Israel... and has dedicated most of her life to helping Palestine, removing the occupation of the gaza, empowering the people of Palestine, turning back the RACIST laws of ISRAEL, demanding the WALL be pulled down, and fighting off her Family who pushes the Zionist/Nazi movement."

let's see, other than not having studied in israel and being male and having a family that aren't "zionist/nazi"s, i think your jewish homegirl and i are practically identical from how you describe her. interesting.

>Zionism = Nazi...

please, please, please: this is just a hateful comparison. zionism = occupation, hell, even zionism = evil is a less hateful comparison. i hope you'd avoid making that statement out of respect for how scarring the Holocaust really was and still is to practically every Jew in the world. please.

–––––––––––––
Vas por la calle llorando
Lagrimas de oro
Vas por la calle brotando
Lagrimas de oro

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Jul-21-06 01:15 PM

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118. "Zionism = Nazism... I said it... and it stays."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

I don't expect you to understand cause you are white.
I don't know why you would take offense to this... you'd expect me to know how to dance cause I'm black right? Well there are certain things white people live up to...
like giving excuses for white folks no matter how foul they are
offering them the benefit of the doubt... as you have just done....
and completely ignoring that Jews, who were killed cause of Nazis are now killing innocent Palestinians and Lebanese cause of Zionism.
It's the same thing... you see people of color and right off the bat the white folks are the victims although they are the aggressors.
When I say YOU I'm not saying YOU btw, I'm saying just the common average white person. There are millions of you. So...
I call it out the way it is cause white people are not used to being called out...
they say anything out their mouths
do whatever the hell they want and get away with it...
and don't deal with reality. The reality is this is how white folks get down.

I'll give you an example of white folks in America.
After all the lynchings, after Emitt Till, Rodney King, Diallo, Yusef Hawkins, Tawana Brawley... after all the hateful, violent crimes comitted to and endless list of black names we will neverk now...

they called Oj The Crime of the Century. Aint that some shit?
A ex football player with a homosexual porn star living in his pool house, along with the death of a coke head ex waitress living off his arm. Amazing.

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Wed Jul-19-06 03:44 PM

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107. "lol. tough guy."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

>Um... first NO ONE orders Aqua.... period white boy....
>and that was so mighty white of you...

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-25-06 12:52 PM

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153. "Not about being Tough... it's about being Respected..."
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

I know your people don't understand that very well...
which is why the world is the way it is right now.

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KAYA MAGA
Member since Apr 13th 2006
378 posts
Wed Jul-26-06 11:43 PM

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161. "What do you mean 'not allowed'?"
In response to Reply # 85


          



>Most Arab countries (Muslim governments.. haha... dumb ass)
>are not allowed and were not allowed to offer Palestine help
>because of what was going on with Hamas... it was an obvious
>ploy to keep the poor poorer.



If they serve Allah and Allah only they would be able (or at least make an effort) to offer their muslim brothers help. The problem with many arab nations is their submission to the will of the US govt., especially Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Aug-07-06 02:36 PM

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178. "Arab governments were allowed to fund the PA"
In response to Reply # 85
Mon Aug-07-06 02:39 PM by 40thStreetBlack

  

          

but the largest source of funding came from the EU and US.

And with Iran being a non-Arab country, smutsboy was correct in saying Muslim governments instead of Arab countries.

>Israel has controlled Palestine's
>Water supply
>Electricity
>Food
>you name it... for a country that wants respect it has to
>learn to allow it's neighbors to govern themselves. They have
>that right.

wow I finally agree with you on something.

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Aug-18-06 03:39 PM

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197. "and I'm still not impressed."
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

smutsboy.
c'mon son.

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40thStreetBlack
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170. "other Arabs don't particularly care for the Palestinians"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

they support the Palestinians inasmuch as doing so is in opposition to Israel, but they largely don't really care about the Palestinians themselves.

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Sat Aug-05-06 03:54 PM

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172. "^^^^True^^^^"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          


Its a well known fact that in the Arab world palestinians are at the bottom of the chain, they are the niggers, the white trash, the ridiculed, the used, the pawned and played.

In the Arab world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Sat Aug-05-06 04:16 PM

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173. "RE: ^^^^True^^^^"
In response to Reply # 172


          

>
>Its a well known fact that in the Arab world palestinians are
>at the bottom of the chain, they are the niggers, the white
>trash, the ridiculed, the used, the pawned and played.
>
>In the Arab world.

I almost get the impression you enjoyed typing this.

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Sat Aug-05-06 09:00 PM

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174. "RE: ^^^^True^^^^"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

I did.

whada ya mean by it?

Its another peice of truth

sup?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Aug-07-06 01:20 PM

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176. "You are disgusting on so many levels..."
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

on so many levels. You and your bullshit.
Do us all a favor and just don't post here anymore...
take your zionist/kkk shit elsewhere please.
thanks.

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
290 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 11:02 AM

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2. "RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up...."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Jul-13-06 11:05 AM by nycresident

  

          

"Israel claims an Israeli soldier was kidnapped. Um..by whom? Hamas never claimed to have anything to do with it... right?"

Uh...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1817266,00.html?gusrc=rss


David Fickling and agencies
Monday July 10, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

"The Palestinian people are united on insisting that the prisoner soldier be traded for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails," he said. "We say to the world that we, as a true people and movement, do not forget our prisoners.

"I do not exaggerate when I say that Olmert and his hostile policies are holding Gilad Shalit. He shoulders the responsibility for what is happening to him."

Corporal Shalit was kidnapped on July 25 by a Palestinian militant group that included members of the military wing of Hamas. The militants tunnelled inside Israeli territory and captured the soldier after a firefight that left two people dead on each side.



What proof do you have to say it was a set up?

Oh wait... nevermind.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Thu Jul-13-06 11:15 AM

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3. "9,000 PALESTINIANS HELD CAPTIVE WITHOUT REASON..."
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Jul-13-06 11:19 AM by AquamansWrath

  

          

VS ONE ISRAELI SOLDIER...
you do the math.

he was a guinea pig.

Israel blames Lebanon.

Bush blames Iran and Syria? TWo areas he's been trying to find a reason to invade.
Please.
How do you spell bullshit in Hebrew?

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 11:25 AM

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5. " Israel claims hundreds of hits in Lebanon - how can this be fair?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

So hundreds of lives for one Israeli? That's God's children for you?


Israel claims hundreds of hits in Lebanon By SAM F. GHATTAS, Associated Press Writer
9 minutes ago



JERUSALEM - Israel has hit hundreds of targets in Lebanon as part of its effort to force the release of two soldiers captured by Hezbollah guerrillas, a top Israeli general said Thursday.

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Israel intensified its attacks against Lebanon on Thursday, blasting Beirut's airport and two Lebanese army air bases near the Syrian border, and imposing a naval blockade. More than 50 people have died in violence following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah militants.

Warplanes punched holes in the runways of Beirut's international airport and two military air bases, attacks that could draw the Lebanese army into the conflict.

Israel has information that Lebanese guerrillas who captured two Israeli soldiers are trying to transfer them to Iran, the Foreign Ministry spokesman said. Spokesman Mark Regev did not disclose the source of his information.

Speaking to reporters, Maj. Gen. Udi Adam, the chief of Israel's northern command, said Israel was targeting infrastructure in Lebanon that held rockets and other arsenals belong to Hezbollah.

Hezbollah guerrillas launched more than 80 rockets and mortars into Israel on Thursday.

"I imagine over time that we will be able to rid ourselves of this threat entirely," he said.

He also said the army was not ruling out sending ground troops into Lebanon.

Israel's army chief Brig. Gen. Dan Halutz warned that "nothing is safe" in Lebanon and said Beirut itself — particularly Hezbollah offices and residences — would be a target.

Hezbollah fired rockets into northern Israeli towns and said it was using a new missile that appeared to be more advanced than previous models. One Israeli was killed and 12 were injured.

The militant group also said it would rocket the key Israeli port city of Haifa if Israel hit Beirut, a strike that would be the deepest ever into Israel by the guerrillas — some 18 miles.

Two days of Israeli bombings, the heaviest air campaign against its neighbor in 24 years, had killed 47 Lebanese and wounded 103, Health Minister Mohammed Jawad Khalife said. Besides the Israeli civilian, eight Israeli soldiers had also been killed.

Both sides played a high stakes game following the capture of the two soldiers by Hezbollah: Israel sought to end Hezbollah's presence on the border, while the guerrillas insisted on trading the captured soldiers for Arab prisoners.

Trapped between the two sides was Lebanon, which Israel said it held responsible for Hezbollah's actions. The Lebanese government insisted it had no prior knowledge of the Hezbollah raid and did not condone it.

Hezbollah fighters operate with almost total autonomy in southern Lebanon, and the government has no control over their actions. But Lebanon has long resisted international pressure to disarm the group.

The Israeli warnings of more attacks caused panic in Beirut, and many people stayed home from work. Long lines formed at gas stations and supermarkets were packed.

The violence reverberated throughout the region and pushed crude oil prices to a new intraday record of $76.30 a barrel.

Western countries, Russia and the United Nations called for restraint and demanded the return of the soldiers. The Arab League called an emergency meeting of foreign ministers in Cairo on Saturday. The Lebanese Cabinet urged the U.N. Security Council to intervene.

The European Union criticized Israel for using what it called "disproportionate" force in its attacks and EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said he was planning a peace mission.

President Bush pledged to work with Israel, criticizing Hezbollah for thwarting efforts for peace in the Middle East.

"My attitude is this: there are a group of terrorists who want to stop the advance of peace," he said at a news conference in Germany. "The soldiers need to be returned."

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas warned that Israel's Lebanon offensive "is raising our fears of a new regional war" and urged world powers to intervene.

Middle East satellite TV stations focused on the violence, and one station showed a man holding a baby killed in the Israeli bombings.

The eight Israeli soldiers killed so far is the highest death toll for the army in four years. Three soldiers died in the initial Hezbollah raid, and four were killed when their tank struck a land mine Wednesday.

In northern Israel, thousands of civilians spent the night in underground shelters as Hezbollah fired rockets at northern Israel. A 40-year-old Israeli woman was killed and five people were wounded in the rocket attacks, the Israeli army reported.

After hitting roads and bridges in the south all day Wednesday, Israel dramatically expanded its campaign Thursday with their biggest offensive in Lebanon since Israel's 1982 invasion.

Israeli warships imposed a naval blockade of Lebanese ports, and the Israeli military said it could also target the Beirut-to-Damascus highway, the main land link between Lebanon and the outside world.

Military jets attacked runways at the Rayak air base in the eastern Bekaa Valley, police said, and at the Qoleiat air base near the Syrian border in the north. Rayak, four miles west of the Syrian border, is home to the country's main military air base and is military headquarters in eastern Lebanon.

Because Lebanon's army has no operational fixed-wing aircraft and only operates helicopters — which can take off or land anywhere — the attacks appeared to be mostly symbolic.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said his forces would not allow Hezbollah guerrillas to occupy positions along the southern Lebanese border.

"If the government of Lebanon fails to deploy its forces, as is expected of a sovereign government, we shall not allow Hezbollah forces to remain any further on the borders of the state of Israel," Peretz said.

Air force Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel said the campaign was likely Israel's largest ever in Lebanon "if you measure it in number of targets hit in one night, the complexity of the strikes." The last major offensive against Lebanon was in 1996 when about 150 Lebanese civilians were killed.

Travelers to and from Beirut were stranded all over the region and beyond after the airport strike. Among them was Foreign Minister Fawzi Salloukh, who was returning from a visit to Armenia and — like many — was forced to make his way home through Syria.

Israeli warplanes blasted craters into all three runways at the airport, located by the seaside in the Lebanese capital's Hezbollah-controlled southern suburbs, forcing incoming flights to divert to Cyprus. The main terminal of the $500 million airport remained intact.

The Israeli military said it struck the airport because it is "a central hub for the transfer of weapons and supplies to the Hezbollah terrorist organization."

It was the first time since Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon and occupation of Beirut that the airport was hit by Israel. The Israelis in 1968 sent commandos to Beirut airport, blowing up 13 passenger planes in retaliation for Arab militants firing on an Israeli airliner in Athens.

Details from the violence included:

• An Israeli missile hit Hezbollah's Al-Manar TV studios in southern Beirut, station official Ibrahim Farhat said. One person was hurt; broadcasts continued. An Al-Manar transmission antenna hit near Baalbek stopped transmissions in that area.

• A civic center attached to a Shiite Muslim mosque near the town of Baalbek was hit.

• A Lebanese family of 10 and another family of seven were killed in their homes in the village of Dweir, Lebanese officials said.

• Among the dead Lebanese were a soldier and a Hezbollah fighter.

• Hezbollah fired rockets at the northern Israeli towns of Safed, Nahariya, Kiryat Shmona, and Carmiel, saying it was using a rocket called "Thunder 1" for the first time. The missiles appeared to be more advanced than the inaccurate Katyusha — the standard Hezbollah rocket.

The Israeli army said several rockets had landed more than 12 miles south of the border, showing that Hezbollah has managed to extend its missiles' range.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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kanino
Member since May 02nd 2006
3644 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 11:53 AM

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7. "who takes responsibility?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I mean, Hamas is the leading party in Palestine (supposedly)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://twitter.com/sun_dalo
xbl: s/n

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 01:10 PM

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8. "My proof is common sense... and a working knowledge of what's"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

going down and more importantly why...

what's YOUR response to 9,000 men held captive vs. one Israeli soldier? I notice you have become quiet... please justify THAT shit.

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HoChiGrimm
Charter member
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Thu Jul-13-06 01:54 PM

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9. "Israel has never preferred moderation from it's enemies."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>First...
>Hamas agrees to put down their weapons and join in democratic
>elections. (I thought that was the point... put down their
>weapons?)
>They won.
>Israel would not recognize them.

It's a simple as this... Israel has
always opposed anything remotely
resembling Arab moderation; it hates
it. The colonial/settler state's first
president, Chaim Weizmann, once argued:
"Israel's greatest threat is not extremism,
rather it is Arab moderation."

If your goal as a colonizer, a slave master,
is to maintain control over a people, the
last thing you want is for them to look
like rational human beings willing to sit
down at the table with you to negotiate peace.
It's better for the slave master to paint the
people he's oppressing as raving, gun waving
lunatics, or pillaging savages.

There's has been a number of times whereby Hezbolla
was willing to reach a comprise over Israel's
illegal occupation in Southern Lebanon. What did
the Zionist state do? It launched cross-border
attacks to provoke the "extremists". Unfortunately,
this mess wasn't even reported in the States but
everyone else was made aware of it.

There's a few things all of us on this board can do:
e-mail every company doing business with Israel, e.g.
Caterpillar, and tell them you are going to boycott
their products if they continue subsidizing the
destruction of Palestinian homes. Write the editorial
section of your local newspaper(s), and make members
of your community aware of Israel's human rights
violations.

WARNING: You will be label an anti-Semite but there's
ways to counter that accusation... First, explain to your
accusers that you love people of Semitic stock which is
why you don't want one more Palestinian child run over by
an Israeli tank (Palestinians are Semites). Second, explain
to your accusers that unless their bloodline is of ancient and
modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Hebrew,
Maltese, Syriac, Tigrinya, (etc), then stop abusing the term
"anti-Semitic". Lastly, if all else fails, punch them dead in
their face and tell them that although your fist upside their
head may feel painful, it's nothing compare to losing an arm
during an Apache helicopter bombing raid in a Gaza neighborhood.

----------------------------------------------------------

The Rand (Paul or Ayn) philosophy, putting private property rights at
the same level of human rights, equates the status of things with the
status of human beings. If property is considered equal

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 01:59 PM

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10. "Stands up and APPLAUDS... EXCELLENT..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

damn it's good you came back...
well done.

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"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
471 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 10:26 AM

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26. "Amen! PREACH!"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>>First...
>>Hamas agrees to put down their weapons and join in
>democratic
>If your goal as a colonizer, a slave master,
>is to maintain control over a people, the
>last thing you want is for them to look
>like rational human beings willing to sit
>down at the table with you to negotiate peace.
>It's better for the slave master to paint the
>people he's oppressing as raving, gun waving
>lunatics, or pillaging savages.


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 11:12 AM

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27. "the ill part is it's not even a secret anymore..."
In response to Reply # 26
Fri Jul-14-06 11:17 AM by AquamansWrath

  

          

the thing that alarms me most about this current administration is nothing is under the table anymore... it's in your face...
it's upfront, the cameras are on... they just spinn it... if at all, either way it's going down.

Spy programs
ousting spies
links to foreign governments on a personal basis
stealing money from other groups
and the thing is none of it is covered up...

Bush said he never met Abramoff...
pictures are now surfacing of them together chilling...
not to mention people who payed from 10,000 to 20,000 just to take a picture with the President... Um... if I remember correctly that's illegal. he already earns a paycheck... as the president. Correct?
Things that would have been outlandish (take just one scandal... like say the CIA operative suing Rove and Cheney...) in any other administration is just the work of the day in his.
Pre-emptive strikes?
Lateral strikes?
calling other countries out with generalizations?
Declaring this a holy war?
obvious lies about WMD's?

Crazy. Absolutely crazy.
Not to mention there has been so much shit it's almost impossible to keep track...
for example... who remembers Anthrax? The Patriot Act?
Who remembers the girl who had the fake save and rescue in Iraq? All caught on film?
Who rememebers Nicholas Berg?
and so on...

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"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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isotope
Member since May 07th 2006
335 posts
Fri Jul-21-06 06:45 PM

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129. "As ALWAYS..HoChiGrimm comes with the CONCISE commentary..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Aquaman is also on track..

>>First...
>>Hamas agrees to put down their weapons and join in
>democratic
>>elections. (I thought that was the point... put down their
>>weapons?)
>>They won.
>>Israel would not recognize them.
>
>It's a simple as this... Israel has
>always opposed anything remotely
>resembling Arab moderation; it hates
>it. The colonial/settler state's first
>president, Chaim Weizmann, once argued:
>"Israel's greatest threat is not extremism,
>rather it is Arab moderation."
>
>If your goal as a colonizer, a slave master,
>is to maintain control over a people, the
>last thing you want is for them to look
>like rational human beings willing to sit
>down at the table with you to negotiate peace.
>It's better for the slave master to paint the
>people he's oppressing as raving, gun waving
>lunatics, or pillaging savages.
>
>There's has been a number of times whereby Hezbolla
>was willing to reach a comprise over Israel's
>illegal occupation in Southern Lebanon. What did
>the Zionist state do? It launched cross-border
>attacks to provoke the "extremists". Unfortunately,
>this mess wasn't even reported in the States but
>everyone else was made aware of it.
>
>There's a few things all of us on this board can do:
>e-mail every company doing business with Israel, e.g.
>Caterpillar, and tell them you are going to boycott
>their products if they continue subsidizing the
>destruction of Palestinian homes. Write the editorial
>section of your local newspaper(s), and make members
>of your community aware of Israel's human rights
>violations.
>
>WARNING: You will be label an anti-Semite but there's
>ways to counter that accusation... First, explain to your
>accusers that you love people of Semitic stock which is
>why you don't want one more Palestinian child run over by
>an Israeli tank (Palestinians are Semites). Second, explain
>to your accusers that unless their bloodline is of ancient and
>
>modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Hebrew,
>Maltese, Syriac, Tigrinya, (etc), then stop abusing the term
>"anti-Semitic". Lastly, if all else fails, punch them dead in
>their face and tell them that although your fist upside their
>head may feel painful, it's nothing compare to losing an arm
>during an Apache helicopter bombing raid in a Gaza
>neighborhood.
>
>





  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Mon Jul-24-06 01:09 PM

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139. "Likewise... respect to you both..."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

fight the good fight.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Wed Aug-23-06 09:15 AM

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208. "Yup Hochigrimm... good look..."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

always on point.

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
2361 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 04:15 PM

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11. "RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This whole thing is bullshit and now the U.S. has it's "smoking gun" to invade Iran. It should be obvious to anybody that this is some half-assed attempt to incriminate them after nobody could prove that they are interested in making nukes, which, even if they were, the CIA THEMSELVES claim they are at least 8 years away from developing any type of nuclear weapon. Now the media will say that Iran is a trouble maker and is "destabilizing" a region which otherwise just loves capitalist American infidel pigs. Now Iran is the new boogeyman that is sponsoring al-Qaeda, even though Osama is a Sunni who despises Iran, a nation of Shi'ites. But that's okay, Iraq was also supposed to be helping al-Qaeda, even though Osama personally called Sadam an "infidel" and a "socialist pig" in one of his tapes. Facts don't worry Uncle Sam. If what he says isn't true then all he has to do is MAKE it true. Now Iraq IS a hotbed of Islamic terrorism thanks to the U.S. occupation. It's the same formula everytime: lather, rinse, repeat. The brainless American masses won't question it either 'cause, "Heck, if Fox News says it, then it must be true," and there's more than enough Southern fried impoverished sell-out coons who are willing to sign up and kill people they believe are their enemies. All masta' has to do is put Stepin Fetchit in a uniform and he'll say, "Sho' boss, I's gonna kill me some Arabs," even though Iranians are Persian. If this, coupled with the North Korea situation, starts World War III which will result in millions more dead, then I hope that both of those captured Jews have their fingernails ripped out of their fingers before being murdered by Hezbollah just like George Clooney in Syriana.


"The more you try to erase me/The more, the more/The more that I appear/Oh the more, the more/The more I try to erase you/The more, the more/The more that you appear." - Thom Yorke

  

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punkhopjazcee
Member since Oct 03rd 2005
5239 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 04:30 PM

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12. "there may have been an actual kidnapping, but that's no excuse"
In response to Reply # 0


          

for blowing up all those bridges and blocking off all entrances to the Gaza Strip like they did, that was uncalled for, if they wanted to get one soldier back they did not need to do all of that, that was uncalled for.

i needed to change my avy.

  

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Galatasaray
Member since May 11th 2006
14227 posts
Thu Jul-13-06 10:01 PM

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15. "Hitler is rolling in his grave."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*smh*

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 01:31 AM

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17. "ahhh you middle class americans"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


just dont get it

good luck

enjoy your freedom


OUT.

PEACE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 08:54 AM

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18. "and we shouldn't get it if it's coming from you or anyone who thinks"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

like you do.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 09:55 AM

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21. "RE: and we shouldn't get it if it's coming from you or anyone who thinks"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          


Your spitting in Gilad's fathers face

and thats it


Im not corresponding with you anymore.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 09:59 AM

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22. "SPIT..."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

you don't own anything of the past other than yourself and your own actions... you have no special power. We are all humans and no one is better than anyone. Peace is the only option.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 10:24 AM

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24. "look at your enemy"
In response to Reply # 22
Fri Jul-14-06 10:25 AM by TheDogtor

  

          

http://www.dydyk.com/photos/images/Peace.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 10:26 AM

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25. "I have no enemies... only the devil will tell you that you do..."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

not a man of God.
or a man of humans.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
471 posts
Wed Jul-19-06 06:50 PM

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109. "Uhhh..."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

I would be a middle class BLACK American (if I qualify as middle class. don't think I do though.) There's a BIG difference. And maybe you mean middle-america but then those conservative moralist christians are on your side...


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
21395 posts
Fri Aug-04-06 06:30 PM

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171. "SPM's from the hood, ock"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
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Mon Aug-14-06 02:44 PM

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189. "uh, aren't you originally from america?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Tue Aug-15-06 09:49 AM

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190. "Queens NY"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          


What of it?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
21395 posts
Tue Aug-15-06 01:58 PM

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191. "you keep talking about "you americans""
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

just seems kinda funny.

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Tue Aug-15-06 03:16 PM

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193. "yeah sometimes i have identity issues"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

ya feel me?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
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Tue Aug-15-06 04:17 PM

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194. "fair enough"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          


<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Tue Aug-15-06 04:40 PM

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195. "Now how about a kiss?"
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Aug-18-06 03:41 PM

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198. "damn it looks like we agree on two things... in one post..."
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

shit I better play the number.

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NYC upt JUX
Member since Dec 19th 2004
10130 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 09:28 AM

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19. "what else is new"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

www.hiphopmusic.com

"What I don't like is Negro elders finally taking a stand for cultural ethics by way of Caucasian vomit. What this now shows young people is that white guilt is still more powerful than black unity." - Star

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 09:32 AM

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20. "basically... but here is what's new..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

this is an attempt to start an all out middle east war...
they are purposely trying to engage Iran and Syria...

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NYC upt JUX
Member since Dec 19th 2004
10130 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 12:17 PM

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32. "true"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

it seems as if "they" are gettin us ready for ww3

www.hiphopmusic.com

"What I don't like is Negro elders finally taking a stand for cultural ethics by way of Caucasian vomit. What this now shows young people is that white guilt is still more powerful than black unity." - Star

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 04:17 PM

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39. "Sun... World War III started with operation Infinite Justice..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Infinite Justice (911), think about it.

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iLLoGiCz
Charter member
2688 posts
Sat Jul-15-06 09:46 AM

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46. "infinite justice=perpetual war..."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

the permanent state of exception..
antonio negri and michael hardt talk about this in the book "multitude"..

Empire must continue to war with its enemies, even if its enemies aren't a pressing threat or even visible.. it will engage in hostile action with old enemies or use sensational rhetoric to create new ones.. while i believe the empire today is the AMERIKAN EMPIRE, it is clear that israel is certainly the greatest ally of the united states, especially becuz of their position/power in the middle east...

1

------------------------------------------
REP MUZIK, TIL DEATH DO US:
http://www.myspace.com/boxcutterknow1edge
http://www.soundclick.com/boxcutterknow1edge

  

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HoChiGrimm
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Fri Jul-14-06 11:15 AM

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28. "Hey Israel! I love your logic regarding security defense."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Under the pretext of forcing the release of a single soldier "kidnapped by terrorists" (or, if you prefer, "captured by the resistance"), Israel has done the following: seized members of a democratically elected government; bombed its interior ministry, the prime minister's offices, and a school; threatened another sovereign state (Syria) with a menacing overflight; dropped leaflets from the air, warning of harm to the civilian population if it does not "follow all orders of the IDF" (Israel Defense Forces); loosed nocturnal "sound bombs" under orders from the Israeli prime minister to "make sure no one sleeps at night in Gaza"; fired missiles into residential areas, killing children; and demolished a power station that was the sole generator of electricity and running water for hundreds of thousands of Gazans.

Sandy Tolan ~ ZMag

----------------------------------------------------------

The Rand (Paul or Ayn) philosophy, putting private property rights at
the same level of human rights, equates the status of things with the
status of human beings. If property is considered equal

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Jul-14-06 11:18 AM

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29. "Basically..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I'm just glad that most if not all the countries of the world, with the exception of US has condemned Israel. However it's not enough, they need to be held accountable.

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rawsouthpaw
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Fri Jul-14-06 11:53 AM

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31. "^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 28


          


----------------------------
Some of my photos from Cuba:
www.flickr.com/photos/workshopvisuals/sets/729092/

www.printroom.com/pro/workshop

www.myspace.com/rawsouthpaw

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Fri Jul-14-06 01:06 PM

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33. "Maybe nobody will kidnap israeli's again"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          


Who knows...

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Jul-14-06 01:26 PM

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34. "after all the soldiers killed in conflict you have to be an idiot..."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

to think this is over a 20 year old soldier...
israel doesn't care about it's own citizens let alone it's soldiers...I guess Israel is the big bad bully on the block?

they strike... then they play victim... and they don't want you to criticize them... right? Would be anti-semetic? as if politics has anything to do with religion right?
That's like a black person robbing another person, getting caught, and calling the cops racist or using the slave trade as an excuse.
It's sick... it's doing those who died in the holocaust a DEEP injustice... ridiculous. This is foul...

your ignorant as HELL if you think this is over a kidnapped soldier..
this is a orchestrated campaign to invade Iran and Syria...
as the sympathy vote for Iraq is OVER...
the freedom fries campaign is OVER...
people are now realizing what I have been warning everyone about since 01... Iraq is Vietnam... the disinformation campaign on Iran didn't work... the spin dr.s and the nukes didn't work? Why?
cause now Iran is willing to negotiate... remember that's all America wanted at first right? diplomacy right? bull...
this hezeballah nonsense is a scam.. an absolute SCAM by the US and ISRAEL.
This is sad and tragic.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Fri Jul-14-06 01:45 PM

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35. "RE: after all the soldiers killed in conflict you have to be an idiot..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

First of all , my apologizes to my remark
"I am not corresponding with you anymore"

Heat of the moment.
Sorry.
The last thing I should do is close my ears to someone who has differnt views than me.


>I guess Israel is the big bad bully on the block?

Could be...


>your ignorant as HELL if you think this is over a kidnapped
>soldier..
>this is a orchestrated campaign to invade Iran and Syria...

Its about it too, its not all about it, but its about it too.

but yeah i can see what your talking about, after terrorism and hizbullah are gone... is that a bad day?

I understand, any form of opression is wrong, but what is right?
Is war right?
Shouldnt war stop?

Not invade, CIVILIZE.
I dont make those decisions, If it was up to me I would smoke one and touch cups with anyone, anywhere if it did any good.

But some people have enough strenght to decide what happens in the world and shape the future, deal with it.


You could think of the USA as the kid in class that wants all the attention, and feels bad when somebody doesnt like him, and would do anything to gain that attention.



Is it a lie that the leader of Iran said over and over again that he wants to destroy Israel?
Is it a lie that the primary objective of muslim militant groups is the destruction of Israel and the west?

It is sad and tragic.



~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Jul-14-06 02:14 PM

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36. "We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

we are discussing Lebanon...
after your 'don't mess with Israel' which is eerily similar to George Bush's 'don't mess with Texas' and his 'you are either with us or against us' ... you have no leg to stand on.

Several things.
Israel is occupying the land that rightfully belongs to Palestinians.
To hell with some religious book. They were living there for thousands of years. Fine, that part is over and one with...
Palestinians tried the democratic route and it was working... but it wasn't working well enough for Israel simply because they didn't elect their pawn. Israel has been acting like a stuck up child from the get... saying they didn't want to meet with them, saying they didn't recognize them. Now they kidnapped them? Over 7 officials?
If you think this is over a soldier your foolish...
many people have died in this ongoing conflict, one soldier means nothing. They have been looking for a reason to destroy Palestine and Lebanon.
You see it's one thing for the leader of Iran to say it (which for the record I have only read in the Western media's press) it's another thing for your leader to actually DO IT (AMERICA AND ISRAEL).

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Fri Jul-14-06 02:31 PM

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37. "RE: We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


>we are discussing Lebanon...
>after your 'don't mess with Israel' which is eerily similar to
>George Bush's 'don't mess with Texas' and his 'you are either
>with us or against us' ... you have no leg to stand on.

On the contrary, just like Bush, both are flat on the ground.


>Several things.
>Israel is occupying the land that rightfully belongs to
>Palestinians.
>To hell with some religious book. They were living there for
>thousands of years

Jews too.

>Fine, that part is over and one with...
>Palestinians tried the democratic route and it was working...
>but it wasn't working well enough for Israel simply because
>they didn't elect their pawn. Israel has been acting like a
>stuck up child from the get... saying they didn't want to meet
>with them, saying they didn't recognize them. Now they
>kidnapped them? Over 7 officials?
>If you think this is over a soldier your foolish...

Not soley, but also.

>many people have died in this ongoing conflict, one soldier
>means nothing.

Means alot, you might not understand that, but it means alot.
It means the whole world.
Im not trying to be a fucking liberal yuppie, but it means alot.
The WHOLE WORLD.
and I can assure you 100% that you wont find one person in Israel that would say it means nothing,not seriously atleast. Not one.
BELIEVE IT.
everyone in israel knows a dead person.


>You see it's one thing for the leader of Iran to say it (which
>for the record I have only read in the Western media's press)

You gotta believe something man...something, anything...
or is it just a huge shadow that covers the entire world?

>it's another thing for your leader to actually DO IT (AMERICA
>AND ISRAEL).

I guess some people cant put thier money were thier mouth is, too bad for that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
471 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 03:47 PM

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38. "RE: We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Ok from a generational and personal standpoint I see where you're coming from. (Aqua hear me out...)

I have a couple of questions for you:

> Would you say that European imperialism in Africa and the New World (West) and the genocide of their indigenous peoples were wrong?

> I'm not going to assume that since you're on this site you are a fan of every OK Artist but do you like and/or agree in the statements made by Dead Prez, Black Thought, Talib, Mos, The Coup, others on matters that seem to specifically concern only members of the African-American community regarding oppression and freedom?


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 04:32 PM

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41. "HE'S NOT GOING TO ANSWER..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

IN FACT, HE COULDN'T.

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
471 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 07:45 PM

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43. "RE: HE'S NOT GOING TO ANSWER..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

I was hoping he would. I just find it interesting with most Zionists that I talk to if you swap out the topic for African-Americans or South Africans being oppressed or Native Americans being slaughered so that Europeans could flourish in the new world they want to almost completely identify but they seem to...I'll be generous and say miss...the not-so-nice similarities between the situations. It's almost like they only think of themselves as victims or perpetual victims without considering the notion that they may have stopped being victims only to become the victimizers. And it's not uncommon. One only needs to read the Fanon to have it spelled out for them if they can't conceive of it themselves.


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Sat Jul-15-06 10:34 AM

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48. "RE: We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

>Ok from a generational and personal standpoint I see where
>you're coming from. (Aqua hear me out...)

>I have a couple of questions for you:
>
>> Would you say that European imperialism in Africa and the
>New World (West) and the genocide of their indigenous peoples
>were wrong?

Yes they were wrong, any sort of voilence is wrong, on the large scale. Its very sad that native americans have basically been erased, its a goddamn shame, and its something to be ashamed about.

But neither you or i can change the fact that its in the past, and if not for those tretorous events, today would be different.

I dont support voilence in any way.
I do support my elected leaders though, because i think support is much more affective than than anything else, it brings out the best or worst in people, support brings out truth IMHO.

>> I'm not going to assume that since you're on this site you
>are a fan of every OK Artist but do you like and/or agree in
>the statements made by Dead Prez, Black Thought, Talib, Mos,
>The Coup, others on matters that seem to specifically concern
>only members of the African-American community regarding
>oppression and freedom?

I usually stick to Activist, some sports, but usually soley Activist, ill check out thier stuff though, thanks, gotta clear out some MB from the hard drive first


One question for you...
Do you answer to aqua?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
471 posts
Sun Jul-16-06 08:12 PM

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52. "RE: We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Answer to Aqua? If you mean that I am in some way his subordinate then no. Don't even know him. Just wanted you to respond to my questions without thinking about a reproach or retort from someone else.

Interesting though...


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 04:23 PM

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40. "RE: We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

>Several things.
>Israel is occupying the land that rightfully belongs to
>Palestinians.
>To hell with some religious book. They were living there for
>thousands of years

Jews too.

UM, PALESTINIANS WERE LIVING THERE... ALREADY... JUST LIKE THE NATIVE AMERICANS WERE HERE... IT WAS THERE LAND... ONCE YOU APPLY ANY LOGIC TO A RELIGIOUS BOOK YOU HAVE EFFECTIVELY BECOME A FANATIC.



>Fine, that part is over and one with...
>Palestinians tried the democratic route and it was working...
>but it wasn't working well enough for Israel simply because
>they didn't elect their pawn. Israel has been acting like a
>stuck up child from the get... saying they didn't want to meet
>with them, saying they didn't recognize them. Now they
>kidnapped them? Over 7 officials?
>If you think this is over a soldier your foolish...

Not soley, but also.
AGAIN, IF YOU THINK THIS IS OVER A SOLDIER YOU ARE FOOLISH... CAUSE IF YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT A SUICIDE BOMBING, KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS AND SOLDIERS WAS LESS IMPACTFUL THAN THE ABDUCTION OF A SOLDIER YOU ARE FOOLISH.

>many people have died in this ongoing conflict, one soldier
>means nothing.

Means alot, you might not understand that, but it means alot.
It means the whole world.
IT MEANS THE WHOLE WORLD? THE WHOLE WORLD WANTS NO INVOLVEMENT WITH ISRAEL'S ARROGANT PROBLEMS. ALSO, THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT? YOU SOUND LIKE A KID TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO HIS MOTHER WHY A NEW TOY IS SO IMPORTANT.

Im not trying to be a fucking liberal yuppie, but it means alot.
The WHOLE WORLD.

LIBERAL YUPPIES HAVE AN ARGUMENT AT LEAST. MEANS THE WHOLE WORLD TO WHOM? YOU? CAUSE IT MEANS NOTHING TO ME.


and I can assure you 100% that you wont find one person in Israel that would say it means nothing,not seriously atleast. Not one.
BELIEVE IT.

UM, ACTUALLY I KNOW MANY ISRAELI'S WHO ARE AND HAVE BEEN COMPLETLEY AT ODDS WITH ISRAEL'S POLITICS AND SAVAGE BEHAVIOR... BELIEVE THAT.
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF MONEY. YOU SPEAK IN BROAD BRUSH STROKES AS IF YOU ARE THE VOICE OF ISRAEL... YET YOU CANNOT EVEN DO A SIMPLE JOB AS TO EXPLAINING WHY AN ABDUCTED SOLDIER 'MEANS THE WORLD'. FUNNY DUDE.

everyone in israel knows a dead person.

EVERYONE IN BROOKLYN AND BALTIMORE KNOWS A DEAD PERSON.
EVERYONE IN PALESTINE KNOWS A DEAD PERSON... YOUR POINT?

>You see it's one thing for the leader of Iran to say it (which
>for the record I have only read in the Western media's press)

You gotta believe something man...something, anything...
or is it just a huge shadow that covers the entire world?

WHAT? AGAIN... TRY A LOGICAL ARGUMENT OUTSIDE OF GUSHING EMOTIONS...
YOU GOTTA BELIEVE SOMETHING? i DO... ISRAEL IS FLAT OUT WRONG AND HAVE BEEN FROM THE JUMP. THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE.

>it's another thing for your leader to actually DO IT (AMERICA
>AND ISRAEL).

I guess some people cant put thier money were thier mouth is, too bad for that.

WHAT? ARE YOU ON THE FRONT LINES SLINGING GUNS AND TAKING BULLETS?
NO YOUR TYPING IN A FORUM. YOUR NOT PUTTING YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS... UNLESS YOUR SITTING ON YOUR WALLET. YOU DIG?

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_Ignorance_Is_Venemous_
Member since Apr 19th 2006
127 posts
Fri Jul-14-06 11:28 PM

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44. "RE: We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>IT MEANS THE WHOLE WORLD? THE WHOLE WORLD WANTS NO
>INVOLVEMENT WITH ISRAEL'S ARROGANT PROBLEMS. ALSO, THIS IS
>YOUR ARGUMENT? YOU SOUND LIKE A KID TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO HIS
>MOTHER WHY A NEW TOY IS SO IMPORTANT.
>NO YOUR TYPING IN A FORUM. YOUR NOT PUTTING YOUR MONEY WHERE
>YOUR MOUTH IS... UNLESS YOUR SITTING ON YOUR WALLET. YOU
>DIG?

By the whole world he's not being literal but rather using the phrase to make a stronger point, and yes an Israeli soldier means a lot to the Israelis, whether or not it's right for them to act on it is another issue, but for Israel to be dealt with and understood this point must be understood.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Mon Jul-17-06 08:57 AM

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54. "Let HIM explain for him..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

and a Israeli soldier? So fucking what?
please, it does not mean the world to Israel...
it's a con.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Mon Jul-17-06 09:48 AM

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60. "No its not"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

a con
and it does mean the world

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Jul-17-06 01:54 PM

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66. "Your argument is foolish..."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Jews are not God's children...
all people of the earth are... if you even believe in God...
the fact that you would think everyone has to pay for Israel
is boderline, if not overline Nazi... that's ridiculous.
Israel is so bad... cut off the American Funding and fight their own war.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Sat Jul-15-06 01:10 PM

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50. "RE: We are not discussing Iran..."
In response to Reply # 40
Sat Jul-15-06 01:10 PM by TheDogtor

  

          

>UM, PALESTINIANS WERE LIVING THERE... ALREADY... JUST LIKE THE
>NATIVE AMERICANS WERE HERE... IT WAS THERE LAND... ONCE YOU
>APPLY ANY LOGIC TO A RELIGIOUS BOOK YOU HAVE EFFECTIVELY
>BECOME A FANATIC.

How do you know Palestinians were living there before any Jew was there?


>YOU SOUND LIKE A KID TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO HIS
>MOTHER WHY A NEW TOY IS SO IMPORTANT.

Its not a toy, its human life.



>IT MEANS NOTHING TO ME.

Israeli solgier's life means nothing to you.
Good to know.



>everyone in israel knows a dead person.
>
>EVERYONE IN BROOKLYN AND BALTIMORE KNOWS A DEAD PERSON.
>EVERYONE IN PALESTINE KNOWS A DEAD PERSON... YOUR POINT?

My point is that when you hurt once from loosing someone, you feel that same sorrow when you hear of death, where ever it shall be.




>WHAT? AGAIN... TRY A LOGICAL ARGUMENT OUTSIDE OF GUSHING
>EMOTIONS...
>YOU GOTTA BELIEVE SOMETHING? i DO... ISRAEL IS FLAT OUT WRONG
>AND HAVE BEEN FROM THE JUMP. THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE.

Good to know.
This conlict starts and ends with emotion.
Its about envy and acceptance.


>WHAT? ARE YOU ON THE FRONT LINES SLINGING GUNS AND TAKING
>BULLETS?

Nope, but my friends are, and as corny it may sound, I am with them in spirit.
Dont disrespect or underestimate my connection to this conflict.

You are sitting in the USA.
So to say some, your not even a part of this, your just a protester, not a fighter.


~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Jul-17-06 08:58 AM

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55. "How do I know Palestinians were there first?"
In response to Reply # 50
Mon Jul-17-06 08:59 AM by AquamansWrath

  

          

the fact that you even asked that question shows me you don't know a damn thing. That's ridiculous.
Let's just forget the fact it was called Palestine for thousands of years... right?

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Mon Jul-17-06 09:42 AM

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59. "RE: How do I know Palestinians were there first?"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          


You didnt answer the question.

it was called many names for thousands of years yeah
names dont mean shit though

just like our online nicknames, im sure you cant breath under water


So how do you know palestinians were there before any jew was there?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
471 posts
Tue Jul-18-06 12:24 PM

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88. "RE: How do I know Palestinians were there first?"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

It's not about who was there before ANY Jew, it's about who was a sovereign nation before Israel came into being. And in the beginning of the 20th century, Palestine was an independent sovereign nation before it became a low-level mandatory under the British after WWI and the break of the Ottoman empire. Within that Palestine, Arabs, muslims, jews, and christians were citizens and protected by that country. There were jews there but it didn't have to be "their" country in order for them to practice their religion. It was a country, period. If you believe the doctrines of Divine Right and Manifest Destiny were wrong then you shouldn't be able to legitimize the existence of Israel now. (And judging from your answers to my previous questions, you did think they were wrong.)

To go to a someone's house (someone who has the deed to the property - i.e. - legal ownership) and say "My Father promised to give me this land when he died" and have no will or other legal documentation declaring this and thusly invalidating the current owner's claim to the property is...well...crap. Maybe your father did promise you that land and indeed intend to give it to you. But shit happens. Maybe he died suddenly before willing the property to you. Maybe you were too young and power of attorney sold the land. Maybe he owed people money and the land was seized by the government. Whatever the case is, your claim is null and void due to whatever circumstances that occured that invalided the claim. If not, then Native Americans can go to current US citizens and say, give me your house. This belonged to my people. And, as a case in upstate NY proved, you can't do that. And they're history is far less removed and far more accepted as fact than a belief than any biblical claim. Yes, I know the Bible is God's law. But it was transcribed by man and therefore is susceptible to human error and faults. Also, it's part of a system of beliefs which not all people subscribe to and therefore is debatable, both generally and on a point-by-point basis. The history of Native Americans is not that subjective and while parts of it may be disputable, the general stance that the land that they populated was taken from them and they were subsequently massacered to the point of genocide. The fact that the Holocaust happened is not (really) debatable while some facts about it may be. The Bible, or any religious text, is different.

>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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91. "Basically... I didn't want to write that again, thanks for writing..."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

but here's the funny part... they know... they just don't give a fuck.
I have written that or similar pieces time and time again...
craziness.

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-18-06 07:09 PM

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102. "actually, it wasn't a country"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          


the Ottomans (turks) controlled Palestine/Israel from 1517-1916, when Arabs and British soldiers took it over. For some time in that period, Egypt controlled Palestine instead of the Ottoman empire. But it wasn't a sovereign nation for hundreds of years, at least, if ever.

now, whether or not that should matter (just like whether or not the bible should matter) in today's conflict is a debatable question.

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
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Wed Jul-19-06 06:41 PM

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108. "RE: actually, it wasn't a country"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Actually it was a country. It was under Ottoman rule but that's like saying Scotland or Ireland aren't countries because they're part of the British Empire.

>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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110. "not the same"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

not the same at all. maybe comparable to Ireland under British rule in the 19th century, but considering it wasn't a single political entity under the Ottoman empire, but rather portions of two separate political entities, it is hard to call it a "country" under ottoman rule, no matter how laissez faire the Ottoman empire may or may not have been when in control of Palestine.

When, for example, was there a Palestinian government like the Irish Parliament? When was a Palestinian king made king of the Ottoman Empire, like the Scottish king who became King James when Scotland and Britain merged?

they aren't the same histories. not even close.

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
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Wed Jul-19-06 11:08 PM

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111. "RE: not the same"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

Actually before 1920 there was a Palestinian government that administered Ottoman laws but was recognzied individually. When the Allies broke up that Ottoman empire and were deciding on territories to designate as different level mandates, Palestine was recognized and being one of the more stable territories and was therefore a low-level mandatory and not to be heavily governed by England or France, as some of the other's were. That changed with the second immigration wave of European Jews and the Balfour agreement though. Like I said before, it was like Europeans were trying to get them out. That's how it reads anyway. It's almost like reading a book and knowing that someone talking about the other character's momma but that character ain't pick up on it yet... You read it with a big Oh $hit, son! face :-0


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
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112. "you shut that down..."
In response to Reply # 111
Fri Jul-21-06 09:35 AM by AquamansWrath

  

          

well done.
how on earth could he say it wasn't a country?

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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133. "can you source that?"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

everything i've ever seen says it was a holding controlled by the ottomans (for example, it was the ottomans who decreed that there could be no jewish immigration to palestine, not the palestinians) that had been split. its level of stability is irrelevant to the point.


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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
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134. "These are a couple..."
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

http://www.palestinehistory.com/history.htm#06
1517 AD : The Ottoman Turks of Asia Minor defeated the Mamelukes, with few interruptions, ruled Palestine until the winter of 1917-18. The country was divided into several districts (sanjaks), such as that of Jerusalem. The administration of the districts was placed largely in the hands of Arab Palestinians, who were descendants of the Canaanites. The Christian and Jewish communities, however, were allowed a large measure of autonomy. Palestine shared in the glory of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th century, but declined again when the empire began to decline in the 17th century.


http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/561c6ee353d740fb8525607d00581829/aeac80e740c782e4852561150071fdb0!OpenDocument
The question of Palestine was brought before the United Nations shortly after the end of the Second World War.

The origins of the Palestine problem as an international issue, however, lie in events occurring towards the end of the First World War. These events led to a League of Nations decision to place Palestine under the administration of Great Britain as the Mandatory Power under the Mandates System adopted by the League. In principle, the Mandate was meant to be in the nature of a transitory phase until Palestine attained the status of a fully independent nation <recognized as emerging from under the rule of the Ottoman empire>, a status provisionally recognized in the League's Covenant, but in fact the Mandate's historical evolution did not result in the emergence of Palestine as an independent nation.

The decision on the Mandate did not take into account the wishes of the people of Palestine, despite the Covenant's requirements that "the wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory". This assumed special significance because, almost five years before receiving the mandate from the League of Nations, the British Government had given commitments to the Zionist Organization regarding the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, for which Zionist leaders had pressed a claim of "historical connection" since their ancestors had lived in Palestine two thousand years earlier before dispersing in the "Diaspora".


I have to find the books I had about this. I've moved a couple of times in the last couple of years so I gotta go on the hunt. Note to EXES: I BETTER STILL HAVE THOSE BOOKS TOO CAUSE IF THEY COME UP MISSIN LIKE SEVERAL OF MY CDs, I'M COMIN FOR THAT A$$!!!!!

DANG IT!

Oh and on one of my previous posts I said Brazil was another region Zionists were looking at establishing a homeland but it was Argentina. My bad. Getting old sucks...


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Jul-24-06 10:04 AM

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136. "shut down again."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

boom.
but well done you two...
covered a great topic...

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40thStreetBlack
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179. "it was never an independent sovereign nation(not that it really matters)"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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Idasa Tariq
Member since Jun 30th 2006
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Sat Jul-15-06 02:09 AM

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45. "RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

nothing's going to come of this but more bloodshed and war...

the israeli's are acting like how the nazi's did the jews in ww2...this is ridiculous

-----------------------------
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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Jul-17-06 08:59 AM

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56. "they are the new Nazi's..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

I'm afraid so.
It's very sad.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Mon Jul-17-06 09:49 AM

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61. "No they arent"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          


Nazi's are long gone, thank god for that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
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67. "Um... that proves you are stupid... perhaps you missed"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

the facist movement turnout in opposition to LePenn in France?
The rising Xenophobia in Europe?
The Aryan headquarters in Seattle?
Eloheem City?
Neo Nazi's are on the rise... long gone? I mean... do you even read?

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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76. "perhaps you missed"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

I thought we were talking about Lebanon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-18-06 09:25 AM

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80. "you said that nazis were long gone,so I blew your spot up"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

as usual.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Tue Jul-18-06 09:49 AM

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81. "Noo..."
In response to Reply # 80
Tue Jul-18-06 09:51 AM by TheDogtor

  

          

I said Nazi's are long gone cause you called me a nazi and you called my country Nazi, so I told you that Nazi's are gone, cause if im a Nazi...they are long gone.


but this is childish


answer the question

How do you know Arabs were in palestine before any jew was there?

or Palestinians were in Cnaan before any jew was there?

Or how do you know Arabs were in Palestine before palestinians?

Are arabs and palestinians the same?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
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AquamansWrath
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83. "Um... remove all biblical context... and deal with reality..."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

it was all Palestine.
stop relying on that GOD DAMN Book... and just focus on the human perspective...
where were those jews before israel was given to them?
Germany
Russia
Poland
etc.

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
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Tue Jul-18-06 06:29 PM

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99. "Unfortunately I had a lot of work to do or..."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

I'd really get at you today. Um, I know you are intent on getting at Aqua but I think I provided a pretty decent (although not totally grammatically correct - and for that I aplogize) answer to your question. Stop arguing over Canaan. Stop arguing the bible or religious text. Since there is no "one" religion everyone subscribes to, that's nothing but a cyclical argument. IT GOES NOWHERE.

Shit, I could write a book and say my God promised me untold riches and Bill Gates ain't giving up a damn dime for that.

AND - There's a thing called reparations. Maybe you heard of it. Anyway, that's based on "legal" documentation stating what the freed slaves of the U.S. are owed (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery) and you don't see negroes with 40 acres and a mule unless it's a logo for their film company (Spike) or they bought it their damn selves (Robert Johnson - and it's not really a mule, more like horses, and probably way more than 40 acres but I digress...)

>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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iLLoGiCz
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Sat Jul-15-06 09:52 AM

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47. "good point, this illuminates some important things..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Jul-15-06 09:54 AM by iLLoGiCz

  

          

this entire skirmish could be a set-up from the start..
israel has UNCHARACTERISTICALLY backed off of the gaza strip in the past year..
while it was more of a token move, israel (on the surface) seemed to want to create a peaceful solution..
however, this escalation of violence and military action could be a result of that..
let's not forget, these zionists are just like the amerikan fascists: they don't sleep..
they don't make mistakes..
they don't allow accidents to happen..
and they damn sure don't make peace..
everything they do is calculated...

1

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Idasa Tariq
Member since Jun 30th 2006
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Sat Jul-15-06 11:22 AM

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49. "RE: good point, this illuminates some important things..."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>this entire skirmish could be a set-up from the start..
>israel has UNCHARACTERISTICALLY backed off of the gaza strip
>in the past year..
>while it was more of a token move, israel (on the surface)
>seemed to want to create a peaceful solution..
>however, this escalation of violence and military action could
>be a result of that..
>let's not forget, these zionists are just like the amerikan
>fascists: they don't sleep..
>they don't make mistakes..
>they don't allow accidents to happen..
>and they damn sure don't make peace..
>everything they do is calculated...
>
>1
>
>

good point

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Sun Jul-16-06 11:04 AM

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51. "ok, just assume Israel didn't set this up, and what should Israel have d..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'll make my points about how this is not a set-up, but I just want to challenge the people in this thread to consider: if you were in israel's shoes, what would you do? How should israel respond?

>First... many Israeli soldiers have died before.

There are a lot of differences between now and earlier experiences. For one, this act was done by Hamas while Hamas was in power as a government. So the idea that Hamas is putting down its weapons is clearly not true in israel's view. Further, Hezbollah has been and continues to be supported by Iran. So when Hezbollah--which the UN said needed to be disarmed--attacks Israel, it is seen as an act of war. Both attacks, in these cases, were invasions of Israeli territory from land Israel had ceded back to Arab populations. Further, kidnapping Israeli soldiers is a particularly brazen and demoralizing attack and the rockets from Lebanon reached a major Israeli city for the first time. If Israel allows such attacks to happen without a large response, how should it respond and still be able to avoid being attacked?

(put aside one's belief in israel's right to exist, just ask: if i were commanding a sovereign state that had had an army officer kidnapped and rockets in major cities from groups in other countries, what should I do?)


>
>However... this was deliberately put in place so that Israel
>could go foward with it's campaign.

evidence? please? Spokesmen for Hezbollah and Hamas have claimed responsibility for attacks.

>
>First...
>Hamas agrees to put down their weapons and join in democratic
>elections. (I thought that was the point... put down their
>weapons?)

we've been through this. Hamas never once said it was putting down its weapons. it only agreed to temporary cease-fires, and only after money was cut off from them.


>Then... Israel started creeping back into the gaza strip.
>They got the US to state that Hamas needed to recognize
>Israel.
>What? What did that have to do with the price of the tea in
>China?

It is very important. Hamas claims Israel has no right to exist--how do you negotiate with someone who believes you shouldn't exist? Just tell me how.

you should check out ha'aretz for a nuanced jewish position on these issues.

>Israel claims an Israeli soldier was kidnapped. Um..by whom?
>Hamas never claimed to have anything to do with it... right?

here's the link from the Guardian, a left-of-center publication in the UK:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1817266,00.html
and here's the al-jazeera link:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1EE826C3-F1DE-4527-956F-B00266ED3E0A.htm

>Almost immediately Israel kidnaps key ELECTED officials of the
>Hamas government.

well, they are leaders of the groups that claim to have kidnapped an israeli soldier on israeli soil. My question is simply: what should israel have done?

>Then... in a calculated move...
>THE US BLAMES IRAN AND SYRIA.

for decades unabashedly supporters and suppliers of Hezbollah, the group behind the rocket attacks from Lebanon. That's just a truth.

>You see... this campaign to dominate the middle east to have
>control over oil... is working for them. here's how.
>Up until this... Iraq and Afghanistan were considered
>disasters... now they will win sympathy votes cause the jews
>will claim... per usual... (strings please) persecution. This
>is obviously a case of a unlevelled playing field. Poor
>people versus extremely wealthy people. This is foul. Watch
>how it will serve it's purpose for Zionists and Religious
>Right Wingers in the US.
>

Oh please. Israel is on the brink of escalating a conflict into a regional war, one in which the US would be unable to help because our tropops are already tied up. In fact, i'd argue the attacks on Israel were so bold because Hamas and Hezbollah knew the US wouldn't be able to back-up Israel as per tradition. Israel is scared--as a nation, one cannot let one's soldiers be kidnapped without a major response because it would completely demoralize your entire armed forces. The tragedy here is that everyone is backed into a corner of escalation, and I honestly don't know how this conflict ends without a full-out land war. and we should all be able to agree that that is a bad, bad end result.

a regional war does not help the US get oil. a regional war does not help zionists. But I look at the situation and what happened and wonder: what should have been done/be done? If Israel were to have released hundreds of palestinians, they would have looked weak. would that have worked? Should Hamas and Hezbollah not have continued to attack after the Israeli reaction? would that have worked? honestly, my answer to all those questions is no. so what else could have been done?
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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
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Sun Jul-16-06 08:31 PM

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53. "RE: ok, just assume Israel didn't set this up, and what should Israel ha..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

OK you know what /i find a paarticularly brazen and demoralizing act? Running a gigantic concrete wall through neighborhoods and school yards so that Palestinian refugees are further incapacitated and dehumanized, disenfrachised and desolated.

If I were Israel I guess I would do what they are doing since in order to be them I would have had to take the same stance on Zionism in order to create that state.

I've said this before on here and I'll say it again - people really need to READ. Go to the UN's website and look up the history of Palestine. I'm not saying go to aljezeera.net. It's not hard really. My 12 year old nephew did it for a report he had to do. At the beginning of the 20th century, Palestine was a sovereign nation with arabs, muslims, christians, and jews. It wasn't until after WWI and the Zionist movement that Israel was created. And trust that these people didn't just voluntarily give up their land and homes to Eurpoean Jews coming to settle in the area because a book says that "their God" promised them that land. (As a side note, when the Zionist movement began, they were debating on whether to create the Jewish state in a couple of locations, Brazil being one of them.) There was plenty of bloodshed as there needs to be in order for one group to usurp the land and rights of another. To say Israel is a peaceful country is to say the US is. It was created through violence and hence, it will be part of the culture. The difference between the US and Israel is that they couldn't just kill all the Palestinians as the Europeans did the indigenous peoples of the new world.

And I wish someone would say I'm anti-semetic. Just recognize Einstein was against Zionism too. And if being against it makes me Anti-semetic then so is he. (I'm just putting it out there so we can avoid that whole topic.)


>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
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58. "Basically..."
In response to Reply # 53
Mon Jul-17-06 09:02 AM by AquamansWrath

  

          

and we can't be anti-semetic... it's our culture.
semites
kemites

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40thStreetBlack
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181. "... "we"?"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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AquamansWrath
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204. "Um... what's the problem?"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

??

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AquamansWrath
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57. "How about we don't assume..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

and warring with Lebanon and throwing threats at Iran and Syria does not help does it? Obviously it's a set up.

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mambo_ndimi
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Mon Jul-17-06 10:07 AM

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62. "I'll accept your challenge"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>I'll make my points about how this is not a set-up, but I
>just want to challenge the people in this thread to consider:
>if you were in israel's shoes, what would you do? How should
>israel respond?

First off I want to make clear that the vindictive killing of innocent civillians particularly in Gaza, Beruit and Haifa is totally unnacceptable. If we allign ourselves with muderous actions, retaliatory or otherwise then we lose sight of our as ideals activists and also i would hope - humanatarians.

>>First... many Israeli soldiers have died before.
>
>There are a lot of differences between now and earlier
>experiences. For one, this act was done by Hamas while Hamas
>was in power as a government. So the idea that Hamas is
>putting down its weapons is clearly not true in israel's view.
>Further, Hezbollah has been and continues to be supported by
>Iran. So when Hezbollah--which the UN said needed to be
>disarmed--attacks Israel, it is seen as an act of war.

The main sparking point of this conflict was carried out by Hezbollah and not Hamas. Hezbollah guerrillas crossed the border from lebanon and killed 6 isreali soldiers and kidnapped a further 2. under any circumstances a clear act of war. Hezbollah was formed in 1982 after an isreali land grab in lebanon. that invasion ended in 2000 and a 2004 UN resolution rightly calls on the lebanese govnt,of which hezbollah is a part, to disarm all militias including Hezbollah. The lebanese state has been either unwiling or unable to this because of the influence of syria and Iran (hezbollah's backers) in their local politics.

>a regional war does not help the US get oil. a regional war
>does not help zionists. But I look at the situation and what
>happened and wonder: what should have been done/be done? If
>Israel were to have released hundreds of palestinians, they
>would have looked weak. would that have worked? Should Hamas
>and Hezbollah not have continued to attack after the Israeli
>reaction? would that have worked? honestly, my answer to all
>those questions is no. so what else could have been done?

My sympathies in this case lie with the people of Lebanon who are unable to rid themselves Hezbollah and are under the constant threat of Isreali attack (6 years is not that long). Hezbollah claim to have kidnapped the soldiers out of solidarity for Palestinians following 25th June and isreal's retaliation. The reality is that Iran and syria are using Hezbollah to draw Isreal into open conflict at the expense of the Lebanese people.

Isreal on the other hand is wantonly murdering civillians and destroying the infrastructure of one of the world's poorest economies. who's going to rebuild airports, roads and power stations for Lebanon?

I rarely agree with the G8 but their stance is spot on in this case. by condemning hezbollah they drive the point home that the global community sympathises not with them but with the innocent lives being taken. It then leaves the door open to tackle Isreal and expose this campaign's wider objectives of destroying hezbollah, hamas and underming the lebanese economy.


--------------------********________________
<----- puting some work in now and heading back there soon

"In recent weeks, we may have given the impression that our entire World Cup hopes rested upon Wayne Rooney. Headlines such as, "All Roo Need is Love,

  

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AquamansWrath
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65. "Newt Gingrich calls this the beginning of World War III"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

maybe now that this white boy said it, ya'll will believe?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13897540/

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-17-06 02:30 PM

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69. "that's always a good sign"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

agreeing with Newt Gingrich.

  

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AquamansWrath
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70. "you are missing the point..."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

which is here is the ex speaker of the house admitting on Meet the Press... that WWIII looks like it could happen..
it's really just common sense...

all the lines are drawn in the sand...
you have your two sides... it's just common sense...
and check this out...
Newt Gingrich
Al Gore
Bush
Clinton
all rich, racist white boys to me.
You dig?

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40thStreetBlack
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180. "ok, so how are Russia, China, or India involved in this?"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

cuz without big boys like them getting into the mix, I don't see how this qualifies as a WWIII scenario.

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Tue Jul-18-06 03:10 PM

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94. "RE: Newt Gingrich calls this the beginning of World War III // HE"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>maybe now that this white boy said it, ya'll will believe?
>
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13897540/

Ok. MSNBC, that's where I saw him.
HE was NOT looking happy.
Cnn had "brink of war" for dayzs.
Daily, rockets are being fired back and forth.
Now , I have to research what does it take to declare this as WAR ?

NELLY: COME ON OVER TO (OUR ) PLACE

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thejerseytornado
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100. "I appreciate the response"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>First off I want to make clear that the vindictive killing of
>innocent civillians particularly in Gaza, Beruit and Haifa is
>totally unnacceptable. If we allign ourselves with muderous
>actions, retaliatory or otherwise then we lose sight of our as
>ideals activists and also i would hope - humanatarians.

agreed. the realpolitick international relations in me just wonders what can be expected/demanded/required of a country.
>
>The main sparking point of this conflict was carried out by
>Hezbollah and not Hamas. Hezbollah guerrillas crossed the
>border from lebanon and killed 6 isreali soldiers and
>kidnapped a further 2. under any circumstances a clear act of
>war. Hezbollah was formed in 1982 after an isreali land grab
>in lebanon. that invasion ended in 2000 and a 2004 UN
>resolution rightly calls on the lebanese govnt,of which
>hezbollah is a part, to disarm all militias including
>Hezbollah. The lebanese state has been either unwiling or
>unable to this because of the influence of syria and Iran
>(hezbollah's backers) in their local politics.

The first kidnapping was from Gaza and was done by three factions, including Hamas. (see: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2268256,00.html for a timeline). The Hezbollah kidnapping happened a couple weeks later, and were the point at which the crisis really escalated. Either way, the point is both Hamas and Hezbollah "invaded" and kidnapped and killed israeli soldiers on Israeli land.

>My sympathies in this case lie with the people of Lebanon who
>are unable to rid themselves Hezbollah and are under the
>constant threat of Isreali attack (6 years is not that long).
>Hezbollah claim to have kidnapped the soldiers out of
>solidarity for Palestinians following 25th June and isreal's
>retaliation. The reality is that Iran and syria are using
>Hezbollah to draw Isreal into open conflict at the expense of
>the Lebanese people.

I agree that the Lebanese people deserve our sympathy, empathy, and support. They deserve a country that is not meddled with by outside forces and was not occupied for decades. I agree that Lebanon is effectively powerless and that this is iran and syria making a play, not Lebanon. It's pathetic and cowardly of those two countries (though it is smart politically) to do so.
>
>Isreal on the other hand is wantonly murdering civillians and
>destroying the infrastructure of one of the world's poorest
>economies. who's going to rebuild airports, roads and power
>stations for Lebanon?

one would hope that, at the very least, when this current crisis ends, Israel would put up the money to rebuild Lebanon, a la a Marshall Plan. I doubt it, and I can hear the reaons Israelis would give not to have to do so, but it'd be an interesting step in the crisis.


> I rarely agree with the G8 but their stance is spot on in
>this case. by condemning hezbollah they drive the point home
>that the global community sympathises not with them but with
>the innocent lives being taken. It then leaves the door open
>to tackle Isreal and expose this campaign's wider objectives
>of destroying hezbollah, hamas and underming the lebanese
>economy.
>

I'd just point out a couple things I disagree with in this paragraph. For one, you speak of "tackling Israel" but not tackling Syria and Iran who are the real powers behind Hezbollah. I also don't know why Israel would have undermining the lebanese economy as an objective (that might be out of ignorance)--it seems like the stronger the lebanese economy, the more likely it would trade with Israel, the more likely it would be able to unshackle itself from the unhealthy control of syria and iran. kinda like Jordan, in a way.

thoughts?

–––––––––––––
Vas por la calle llorando
Lagrimas de oro
Vas por la calle brotando
Lagrimas de oro

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Jul-21-06 10:00 AM

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114. "several thoughts..."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

"I agree that the Lebanese people deserve our sympathy, empathy, and support. They deserve a country that is not meddled with by outside forces and was not occupied for decades. I agree that Lebanon is effectively powerless and that this is iran and syria making a play, not Lebanon. It's pathetic and cowardly of those two countries (though it is smart politically) to do so."

This is where I have a problem.. your wording. It's classic white boy... as if the people of Lebanon having our sympathy, empathy is an option and not the rule of the day. However, what they also need is physical support... be it troops on their side fighting Israel... or even better support, CONDEMNING Israel for their actions by Demanding sanctions against them
demanding possible war crimes against them
and demanding a cease fire through the US and the UN...
HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE... FUCK EMPATHY... THEY NEED MONEY, POLITICAL SUPPORT AND MANPOWER...

"one would hope that, at the very least, when this current crisis ends, Israel would put up the money to rebuild Lebanon, a la a Marshall Plan. I doubt it, and I can hear the reaons Israelis would give not to have to do so, but it'd be an interesting step in the crisis."

Yeah I doubt it too... but that's their problem... they should be held accountable... what is up with this limp wrist talk when it comes to Israel... it's like people are scared to call them out for their bullshit... why is that?

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mambo_ndimi
Member since Nov 10th 2004
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Sun Jul-23-06 08:45 AM

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132. "Isreal, unlike hezbolla, hamas or the Lebanese"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

govnt has a an Executive, military and diplomatic chain of command - hence the "tackling Isreal" comment. it wasn't meant in a punitive or finger pointing way. if the international community doesn't first condemn hezbollah's attack i dont think Isreal will come to the table.

I do think Isreal is purposefully undermining Lebanon's economy *ques "psuedo zionist conspiracy theory" reel** at present Isreal is isolated geographically and geo politically but has very strong backers in the U.N and obviously the U.S.

A stable Lebanon/iran/syria with international recognition would mean diplomatic and economic isolation as well. My basis for this thinking is Isreal's very negative response to reasonable peace initiaves in the past. I was watching a "the diameter of the bomb" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0441754/ ) and the opinions expressed by ordinary isreali's towards palestine, suicide bombers and even sharing Jerusalem were entirely at odds with those expressed by the govnt. the hard liners and military leaders seem to have a lot a sway ok, so I clearly know very little about Isreal's internal politics but that's cos I'd painted the whole country with the same vindictive, war-mongering brush.

>>First off I want to make clear that the vindictive killing
>of
>>innocent civillians particularly in Gaza, Beruit and Haifa
>is
>>totally unnacceptable. If we allign ourselves with muderous
>>actions, retaliatory or otherwise then we lose sight of our
>as
>>ideals activists and also i would hope - humanatarians.

>agreed. the realpolitick international relations in me just
>wonders what can be expected/demanded/required of a country.

i see your point here but we MUST hold our leaders responsible for every decision to take lives. The same standard applies to leaders of oppressed peoples. Govan Mbeki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govan_Mbeki) in his autobiography relates how he laboured with the decision to escalate the South African liberation struggle from being purely political/passive to a military one because the loss of lives on both sides would brutalise the population and widen the black/white gulf.



--------------------********________________
<----- puting some work in now and heading back there soon

"Carrying freedom is the only burden that straightens the back" - Patrick Chamoiseau

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www.pambazuka.org

  

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AquamansWrath
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Mon Jul-24-06 01:14 PM

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141. "Several things.. first.. Israel are liars..."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

their government...
they have kidnapped and assasinated both elected officials and civilians in their quest for dominace... mind you I am anti zionist...
however I am pro the people... the people of Israel just don't know better cause their government is corrupt and keeps using their holocaust and the 'victim' role as an excuse to get away with totalitarianisms... mind you
Palestine
Lebanon
POOR COUNTRIES.
Israel
one of the RICHEST countries in the world. Do the math. This is purely a set up... the first kidnapping occurred with Israel... not to mention in days following they kidnapped almost the entire Hamas government elected officials... why? they never liked them being DEMOCRATICALLY elected to begin with... and after they won the election they said they would not acknowledge them. So much for Democratic Israel. Try regime.

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
290 posts
Tue Jul-18-06 01:35 AM

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73. "i don't see too many people condeming the fundamentalists..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-18-06 02:04 AM by nycresident

  

          

on the other side of this conflict. Some of you act like Israel is soley responsible for this.



  

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FireBrand
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74. "It's hard to find much fault with a just resistance movement."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

Tactics? Politics? perhaps misguided, but in comparison to Israel? Come on.

<---We're all together, we stand for right.
www.myspace.com/northernarcatl
www.last.fm/user/KwadwoJuma/

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-18-06 09:18 AM

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78. "They are."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

There zionist nonsense is what blinds many to see that.

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Canela74
Member since Feb 24th 2004
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Tue Jul-18-06 11:36 AM

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87. "RE: i don't see too many people condeming the fundamentalists..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

As my father always says, you don't know what you're going to unleash when you back people into a corner. If they feel that they already have nothing (because they don't) and they are fighting merely for their existence (Which by the way is different from protecting your life. That's individual. We're talking about an entire group of people.), then you have driven them to a point of desparation in which they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. What would you do to protect your existence?




>>>Avitar - Romare Bearden's "Reclining Nude" c. 1977

>>>"Oil? Who said anything about oil? You cooking, bitch?" - Dave Chapelle as "Black Bush"

>>>"I ain't scared of no Al- Qaeda. I'm scared of Al- Kracker!" - Chris Rock

>>>"Ain’t no disrespect,

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-18-06 12:39 PM

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89. " I could not agree more..."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

well said.

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ummah1421
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75. "the visual propaganda on new york newspapers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Is the injected opinion

And if you are in new york, come to the rally at the UN today at 2:30

Israeli Mission to the UN
2nd Ave. between E 42nd and

http://ummah1421.com/boards

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-18-06 09:20 AM

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79. "consistant with most media outlets"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

So let’s look at it from this perspective…

Rupert Murdock
The cat who owns Starbucks
Alan Greenspan
All Zionists…

Think of the power these three men have and how they influence the media.

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-18-06 01:23 PM

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92. "I love how the naysayers won't even touch that... LOL... also"
In response to Reply # 79
Tue Jul-18-06 01:27 PM by AquamansWrath

  

          

the fact that Israel is saying that they will not stop the war until the two soldiers are returned is such a set up...
it's obvious THEY kidnapped thier own soldiers... they became guinea pigs... no question.

hence their new comment about this INVASION going on 'for weeks'...

also, the comment made by Bush with the microphones on to Blair should be sign enough (if it wasn't staged) that Syria and Iran are DEFINITELY the next targets... just in case you are living under a rock.
Peace and love.

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Tue Jul-18-06 03:14 PM

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95. "*** I do not know....But My First Thought **** Ariel Sharon"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I do not know if it was a "setup".
But my first thought was,
Ariel Sharon
Out of the way (?), now this.

NELLY: COME ON OVER TO (OUR ) PLACE

D'ANGELO: www.myspace.com/dangeloarcher <<< PUSH IT TO THE LEFT

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-18-06 04:18 PM

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97. "Ariel Sharon blames Lebanon and Syria..."
In response to Reply # 95
Tue Jul-18-06 04:19 PM by AquamansWrath

  

          

so....
keep in mind they bombed the airport cause they claimed they didn't want Iran or Syria giving them supplies.
that was a statement.

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
301 posts
Tue Jul-18-06 05:10 PM

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98. "RE: Ariel Sharon blames Lebanon and Syria..."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>so....
>keep in mind they bombed the airport cause they claimed they
>didn't want Iran or Syria giving them supplies.
>that was a statement.

WHO IS TO BLAME ?

I stopped watching the SMOKE bursting in air and I am going into the articles for why the soldier was captured.





NELLY: COME ON OVER TO (OUR ) PLACE

D'ANGELO: www.myspace.com/dangeloarcher <<< PUSH IT TO THE LEFT

  

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SEROTONIN
Member since Jan 14th 2004
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Tue Jul-18-06 08:41 PM

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103. "RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Here is an interesting, balanced piece from the Washington Post today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071701154.
html?sub=AR

I'm a little perturbed at all of this nonesense. If these rusty ass beefs were put aside for a moment and true collabos were made, we could probably be to Venus by now. Straight up. Think if nations got together and focused on finding what is beyond this planet. Everyone on that same page. Profits aside.

This is a feeble attempt at man trying to do God's will, when God needs no man. Brother's are killing each other for the same God. Religion is a mutha and none of them quite get it.
---------------------------------------
Think freely.

http://www.brightridge.net

  

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momentous
Member since May 17th 2006
77 posts
Tue Jul-18-06 10:19 PM

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104. "Everything is a set up huh?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-18-06 10:39 PM by momentous

  

          

How can Israel have custody of these soliders as you stated when HEZBOLLAH and HAMAS admitted they've kidnapped them?

Wouldn't that mean HEZBOLLAH and HAMAS are part of this set-up?

  

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AquamansWrath
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Fri Jul-21-06 09:37 AM

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113. "please provide a source that Hezbelloh or Hamas admitted it."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

cause I have seen nothing.

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momentous
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Fri Jul-21-06 11:40 AM

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116. "RE: please provide a source that Hezbelloh or Hamas admitted it."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5171616.stm

"Hezbollah said it captured the two Israeli soldiers at 0904 (0704 GMT).

A statement from the group said the two were taken to a "safe place". It did not mention whether they were alive or dead or injured.

Fulfilling its pledge to liberate the prisoners and detainees, the Islamic Resistance... captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine," the Hezbollah statement said."


How can you NOT know this? It's all over the news.



  

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momentous
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Fri Jul-21-06 11:48 AM

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117. "RE: please provide a source that Hezbelloh or Hamas admitted it."
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5160044.stm

"The Hamas statement appeared to soften the group's demands for the release of Cpl Shalit, who was captured in a raid on a border post.

It said that Hamas was only calling for Israel to free Palestinian women and children held in its jails.

There was no mention of a previous demand that an additional 1,000 prisoners also be freed, including prominent militant leaders.

Hamas said the ball was in Israel's court and was critical of Israel's leaders for so far refusing to negotiate."

  

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AquamansWrath
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Fri Jul-21-06 01:23 PM

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120. "Mind you Israel has 9,000 Palestinians held captive..."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

yet they bombed that city over 2? i would hate to think this is true as it would imply to me that israel is an evil concentration camp.
So we are better off going with my take that Israel set this up...

I mean let's look at it...

they have constantly gone over their agreement for the Gaza strip.
They have 9,000 Palestinian men and women held HOSTAGE.
They are on OCCUPIED land.
They are claiming God... *blinks eyes* God gave him this land people.
Some crazy shit.
They bomb Palestine at will.
They have violated every major human rights law known.
They have invaded Lebanon on behalf of the US setting it up to they can in turn invade Syria Iran.
They have bombed a innocent city for the actions of a few.
I'm sorry... but someone just saying there is a statement versus anything else is just sketchky as fuck.

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AquamansWrath
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Fri Jul-21-06 01:23 PM

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121. "Mind you Israel has 9,000 Palestinians held captive..."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

yet they bombed that city over 2? i would hate to think this is true as it would imply to me that israel is an evil concentration camp.
So we are better off going with my take that Israel set this up...

I mean let's look at it...

they have constantly gone over their agreement for the Gaza strip.
They have 9,000 Palestinian men and women held HOSTAGE.
They are on OCCUPIED land.
They are claiming God... *blinks eyes* God gave him this land people.
Some crazy shit.
They bomb Palestine at will.
They have violated every major human rights law known.
They have invaded Lebanon on behalf of the US setting it up to they can in turn invade Syria Iran.
They have bombed a innocent city for the actions of a few.
I'm sorry... but someone just saying there is a statement versus anything else is just sketchy as fuck.

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
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Fri Jul-21-06 02:28 PM

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122. "Maybe Hasan Nasrallah works for Mossad"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

Or maybe Hizballah is a front for Likud.


  

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AquamansWrath
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Fri Jul-21-06 02:35 PM

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123. "Maybe Bush works for Israel... and Israel works for Bush?"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

considering no one has even mentioned the war in IRaq as of late now have they? what a clever little plan the devils have.

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
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Fri Jul-21-06 02:55 PM

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124. "Bush also works for the Freemason society and is chairman of that group"
In response to Reply # 123
Fri Jul-21-06 02:56 PM by nycresident

  

          

Manipulating weather patterns in poor neighborhoods and used a caucasian weather machine to wash N.O away - mainly, the black residents of N.O.



  

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AquamansWrath
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Fri Jul-21-06 03:46 PM

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125. "Um... be stupid all you want... the fact is he fucked up the world..."
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

but of course there is no need to look at a simple thing like that right? He called them the "Axis of Evil" right?
He said 'you are either with us or against us right?'
No ONE was fighting until he decided to "PREEMPTIVELY STRIKE" Afghanistan and Iraq right? RIght.
Let's not forget a WHITE MAN did that.
Thanks folks!

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
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Fri Jul-21-06 04:26 PM

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126. "There were conflicts in those regions before he opened his mouth"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

All he did was made it worse by doing the opposite.







  

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momentous
Member since May 17th 2006
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Fri Jul-21-06 05:03 PM

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127. "How do you come to that conclusion?"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

As i said before, if this was a set up then wouldn't that mean Hezbollah and Hamas are working in conjunction with Israel?



  

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AquamansWrath
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Mon Jul-24-06 03:33 PM

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144. "You have to be kidding me... it sounds like you want Israel to be"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

the innocent victim no matter what.
It's a setup cause of all the countless civilians killed and who were killed in Israel... do you really think for one second they care about two soldiers? Do you know how many people have already died?

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AquamansWrath
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Fri Jul-21-06 01:19 PM

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119. "Hugo Chavez violent parade was all over the news too my friend"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

and it was a lie. Had they not been filming in the first person when it all happened, CNN, the BBC, MSNBC all said it was his fault.
Also, this isn't the best source...
I'm still failing to understand why they haven't done what most traditional terror groups do... they admitt it publicly... coming from the lips of analysts or people saying a statement...
where?
how?
can I see it?
I'm not buying it. Just cause it's all over the news don't mean SHIT really. Bush called Ariel Sharon a man of peace and that was all over the news too.

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momentous
Member since May 17th 2006
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Fri Jul-21-06 05:40 PM

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128. "RE: Hugo Chavez violent parade was all over the news too my friend"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

>and it was a lie. Had they not been filming in the first
>person when it all happened, CNN, the BBC, MSNBC all said it
>was his fault.
>Also, this isn't the best source...
>I'm still failing to understand why they haven't done what
>most traditional terror groups do... they admitt it
>publicly...


Did you click on the link i posted?

>I'm not buying it. Just cause it's all over the news don't
>mean SHIT really.

That is why you must read more than 1 source. The BBC, Democracy Now, i read many sources, i watch all different news networks including those i deplore, but at the end of the day, i come up knowing more about a story than i knew before. In the case of this conflict, there is not a single reporter calling this a "set up". I don't know where did you get that idea from but it's it's not true. Whether they are pro-Israel or not.


  

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AquamansWrath
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Mon Jul-24-06 01:18 PM

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142. "ACtually you are so far off base it's unreal... let me educate you"
In response to Reply # 128
Mon Jul-24-06 01:21 PM by AquamansWrath

  

          

simply get the film "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"
it was filmed in the first person during the day of the parade
and explains (through film, not personal opinion) what REALLY happened...
it also shows you how the media manipulates people like YOU my friend... from CNN to MSNBC... cause you see they all make money together... smile...
educate yourself...learn something...
then speak up... til then.. .be a good student and learn from Aqua.
peace.

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Wed Jul-19-06 03:13 PM

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105. "RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up....// Flip The Script.........."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHO IS ZOOMING WHO ?

Iran Playing Head Games
Israel. America Supports
Syria/Iran.On StandBy ?

"AXIS OF EVIL Iraq Iran North Korea"

So you question the ongoing situation as a "set-up".
But, who is Zooming who ?
America a strongg supporter of Israel and worse comes to worse , as whatever they want to cause this conflict (WAR) ESCALATE,will America go in to assist/defend Israel and World War3 truly begin.
Hezbollah played their role ?
Israel,Iran,Syria,America-World War3 ?

During today's press conference, Tony Snow was bombarded with questions.

And no. I do not know a damn thing, just curious and when is enough is enough!

"Until the rest of the world says no more".

MEDIA.
Iraq War and our soldiers in Afghanistan was forgotten ?
Israel and Lebanon,and our soldiers in Iraq, near forgotten ?
Always the next hot story ?

NELLY: COME ON OVER TO (OUR ) PLACE

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Wed Jul-19-06 03:27 PM

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106. ">>>>>>>"Monkey See Monkey Do"<<<<<<<<<"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe not the best scenario, but,
I see another Empowered to stay the course,
Therefore I feel Empowered to stay the course.

Negotiations.Searching if it was an option ?
And searching for today's press conference transcript

How long, How long ?
O, will the children forever Study War ?

NELLY: COME ON OVER TO (OUR ) PLACE

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AquamansWrath
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Fri Jul-21-06 11:17 AM

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115. "Yeah... Um they got the actors back... oops I mean the soldiers..."
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

so why then are they calling ground troops to invade Lebanon?

Cause this was all a setup up... they will occupy Lebanon (and Palestine for that matter - so who again are the aggressive neighbors?> That would be Israel)...
also...
by occupying Lebanon and sending in American troops, which they have done... they will invade Syria and Iran...

now watch Aqua's words...
they will invade Syria first...
blaming Hezbelloh... okay cool... however, if they don't just go foul out... they will say Hezbellah... through Syria... attacked either a US lead marker, or a departing ship or plane... watch folks.

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Fri Jul-21-06 10:03 PM

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130. "RE: Israeli Solider Kidnapping Was A Set Up..../// NoooO"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jul-21-06 10:03 PM by MONIQUEE

  

          

>First... many Israeli soldiers have died before. In fact,
>one little known fact is the main reason suicide bombers were
>targeting buses in Israel is because that is the main mode of
>transportation for soldiers....
>
>However... this was deliberately put in place so that Israel
>could go foward with it's campaign.
>
>First...
>Hamas agrees to put down their weapons and join in democratic
>elections. (I thought that was the point... put down their
>weapons?)
>They won.
>Israel would not recognize them. (so what was the point of
>elections?)
>Then... Israel openly tried to ask them to leave even after
>they won by the support of the people.
>In fact if you followed the elections... originally Israel
>said they'd lost by a landslide... when in fact they'd won by
>a landslide.
>Ok cool.
>Then... Israel started creeping back into the gaza strip.
>They got the US to state that Hamas needed to recognize
>Israel.
>What? What did that have to do with the price of the tea in
>China?
>Absolutely nothing... it was rhetoric to get more sympathy
>votes... you see it's sorta like the black muslim campaign
>here... you don't actually have to do nothing but enough press
>reports, breaking news coverages, and just mentioning black
>muslims in the same context with terrorism eventuall people
>are dumb enough to equate the two without knowing anything
>factual. Facts mean nothing in this hypertechnological world.
>Sensationalism is everything.
>Cool.
>Then, small scale violence breaks out between Israel and
>Palestine... ok cool.
>Israel claims an Israeli soldier was kidnapped. Um..by whom?
>Hamas never claimed to have anything to do with it... right?
>Almost immediately Israel kidnaps key ELECTED officials of the
>Hamas government.
>Then... in a calculated move...
>THE US BLAMES IRAN AND SYRIA.
>I'LL SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE SLOW FOLKS... THE US BLAMES IRAN AND
>SYRIA.
>ISRAEL BLAMES LEBANON.
>I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.... FOR THE SLOW FOLKS. THE US BLAMES IRAN
>AND SYRIA. ISRAEL BLAMES LEBANON.
>You see... this campaign to dominate the middle east to have
>control over oil... is working for them. here's how.
>Up until this... Iraq and Afghanistan were considered
>disasters... now they will win sympathy votes cause the jews
>will claim... per usual... (strings please) persecution. This
>is obviously a case of a unlevelled playing field. Poor
>people versus extremely wealthy people. This is foul. Watch
>how it will serve it's purpose for Zionists and Religious
>Right Wingers in the US

SHAME ON YOU. "ACTORS". "OPPS" ain't gonna cut it.Come up for air.
Soldiers are under orders. That I respect for their sake-Life.
I know one is married.
Yes everyone's Life is important.
Dang the printer-but I saved this in my favorites to watch your words ,(whatever you said-too lazy/tired to find it),and keeping in mind...
WHO IS ZOOMING WHO ? (If)at all the case. Nothing proven.


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AquamansWrath
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Mon Jul-24-06 01:11 PM

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140. "You know one that's married? Surely you can't be serious..."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

I'm going to chalk this comment up to the Eddie Murphy files.
So now just because they are soldiers, they are automatically good people? hahahahaha... um... no.

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Mon Jul-24-06 04:57 PM

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146. "RE: You know one that's married? Surely you can't be serious..."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

>I'm going to chalk this comment up to the Eddie Murphy
>files.
>So now just because they are soldiers, they are automatically
>good people? hahahahaha... um... n

I was speaking about the "married" soldier,
as I was watching the wife on television.
Almost at the same time watching the innocent losing life.
No, being a soldier does not automatically make them good people.
But they are under orders and damed if they do, dammed if they do not follow orders.
There are soldiers/civilians losing their lives over what ?

Outside of the soldiers....
There is a complication of much blame to go around ,with many players.
How many players comfortably sitting back as the actions are carried out on both sides ?
From the top to the lowest level connections.

And.
I know what you mean about "actors" .
The role players in your topic of this being
a "Set-up"-serious w/ a joke (" actors "),
what sent out to get it all started.
Did they even have a clue, (IF) it is true.


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AquamansWrath
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Fri Aug-18-06 03:44 PM

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199. "but you see... this is too basic... as if anything a soldier does came"
In response to Reply # 146
Fri Aug-18-06 03:45 PM by AquamansWrath

  

          

from a higher up...
take for example what happened with the 14year old girl... that didn't come from orders... that came from frustration, lack of understanding, racism and anger.
There are rogue soldiers... this war, much like the Vietnam War has REALLY brought that to light.

Now... give me all of your unreleased D'Angelo... thank you.

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yoplay
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Sat Jul-22-06 07:16 PM

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131. "another explanation"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it still works with your thesis that all of this was a pre-calculated set up by israel and the u.s. i'll just provide the quote from noam chomsky in an interview he did on july 14th for democracy now. by the way, an excellent site to get very valuable interviews and such from chomsky is chomsky.info i personally find this guy to be rediculously on point with everything. anyways, here's what he says:

Gaza, itself, the latest phase, began on June 24. It was when Israel abducted two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother. We don't know their names. You don’t know the names of victims. They were taken to Israel, presumably, and nobody knows their fate. The next day, something happened, which we do know about, a lot. Militants in Gaza, probably Islamic Jihad, abducted an Israeli soldier across the border. That’s Corporal Gilad Shalit. And that's well known; first abduction is not. Then followed the escalation of Israeli attacks on Gaza, which I don’t have to repeat. It’s reported on adequately

there comes a time in every mans life when he's gotta handle shit up on his own Can't depend on friends to help you in a squeeze, please they got problems of their own---slim kid3

  

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AquamansWrath
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Mon Jul-24-06 10:03 AM

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135. "basically... this is precalculated to start a war with Syria"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

and Iran by the US on behalf of Saudi Arabia.
That's why they are meeting with the Prince of Saudi on security concerns.
It's very simple.

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
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Mon Jul-24-06 11:16 AM

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137. "RE: basically... this is precalculated to start a war with Syria"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

>and Iran by the US on behalf of Saudi Arabia.
>That's why they are meeting with the Prince of Saudi on
>security concerns.
>It's very simple.

The US is bogged down in Iraq. The military is stretched dangerously thin. You have the international community condeming Israel's response to the attack on their soliders and criticizing the United States for their blind support for Israel. You have conservatives growing mad at Bush's tepid and somewhat deranged response to this (Read the pieces done by Pat Buchanan and George Will). You have a regional conflict that is going to make Israel more prone to attacks from gurellia groups such as, Islamic Jihad or Hezbollah for destroying Lebannon's infrastructure and killing innocent civillians. How is this in any way helping the United States and Israel? Why would the United States get into a war with Syria and Iran when WE DON'T HAVE the military capacity for an attack on these two countries?

To say this is an attempt to start a war with Iran and Syria is disingenuous on your part.

  

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AquamansWrath
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Mon Jul-24-06 12:11 PM

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138. "Yet Bush blames both Syria and Iran for Hezbollah... and..."
In response to Reply # 137
Mon Jul-24-06 12:22 PM by AquamansWrath

  

          

countless terror attacks... although he has no proof.
Cause Bush has been trying to attack Iran for a while now...
it's all over oil...
nothing more.
Why do you think they staged the open mic deal with Blair last week...
it's to set the tone.

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AquamansWrath
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Mon Jul-24-06 03:32 PM

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143. "Ok folks... time for specifics..."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

this whole thing started because of land granted to those who call themselves Israeli's right...
okay... now fair or unfair? Is it fair or unfair to give them this land without the consent of the people already living there?

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
290 posts
Mon Jul-24-06 04:34 PM

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145. "RE: Yet Bush blames both Syria and Iran for Hezbollah... and..."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

>countless terror attacks... although he has no proof.
>Cause Bush has been trying to attack Iran for a while now...
>it's all over oil...
>nothing more.
>Why do you think they staged the open mic deal with Blair last
>week...
>it's to set the tone.

HA, so now the open mic exchange between Bush and Blair was set up?


  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-25-06 09:18 AM

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148. "yes."
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

so he could voice what the American people wouldn't accept otherwise.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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MONIQUEE
Member since Feb 13th 2006
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Mon Jul-24-06 05:38 PM

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147. "RE: basically... this is precalculated to start a war with Syria"
In response to Reply # 137
Mon Jul-24-06 05:42 PM by MONIQUEE

  

          

>>and Iran by the US on behalf of Saudi Arabia.
>>That's why they are meeting with the Prince of Saudi on
>>security concerns.
>>It's very simple.
>
>The US is bogged down in Iraq. The military is stretched
>dangerously thin. You have the international community
>condeming Israel's response to the attack on their soliders
>and criticizing the United States for their blind support for
>Israel. You have conservatives growing mad at Bush's tepid and
>somewhat deranged response to this (Read the pieces done by
>Pat Buchanan and George Will). You have a regional conflict
>that is going to make Israel more prone to attacks from
>gurellia groups such as, Islamic Jihad or Hezbollah for
>destroying Lebannon's infrastructure and killing innocent
>civillians. How is this in any way helping the United States
>and Israel?


>Why would the United States get into a war with
>Syria and Iran when WE DON'T HAVE the military capacity for an
>attack on these two countries?
>

SAY WHAT ?

Spinning random thoughts.
And if this is true, no one to really back them up.
How "Isolated" is the United States ?
Post Iraq war/whenever/or always when it comes to NUCLEAR WAR.

But, is The United States and Israel discovering the un-conventional war with weapons.
Al-Quieda-Hamas-Hezballoh...anymore likeness in the new war tactics ?



>To say this is an attempt to start a war with Iran and Syria
>is disingenuous on your part.
>
>

NELLY: COME ON OVER TO (OUR ) PLACE

D'ANGELO: www.myspace.com/dangeloarcher <<< PUSH IT TO THE LEFT

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-25-06 10:16 AM

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149. "Israel using Human Shields and other things - From the BBC""
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

Israel using Human Shields and other things - From the BBC"




Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic
By Lucy Williamson
BBC News, Gaza


The Israeli army has been accused of using Palestinian civilians as human shields in an operation in northern Gaza.
According to the Israeli human rights group, B'tselem, six civilians including two minors were subjected to the illegal tactic during an incursion into the town of Beit Hanoun last week.


Hazem Ali says he was subjected to a terrifying 12-hour ordeal
There are piles of rubble leading up to the hole in Hazem Ali's house.

It's a week since Israel came into Beit Hanoun, but the gash in the side of his house is still raw, the soft inside of family life still visible through the lumps of concrete hanging from the wall. A broken bed; a few girders dripping onto it; an elegant wardrobe still standing against the back wall.

It was soon after dawn when the Israeli army bulldozed their way in. Hazem was still sleeping, taking a break from his job as an engineer with the local Palestinian news agency.

'Blindfolded'

It was his mother who met them in the hallway, Israeli soldiers in a Palestinian home. Behind her, Hazem and his two brothers emerged, one by one.

The three brothers were blindfolded, says Hazem, and their hands tied behind their backs. He shows me the wounds on his wrists from the plastic handcuffs - still sore and infected, but beginning to heal over.

He shows me where the soldiers positioned them: outside the entrance to his flat on the third floor, in the stairwell, facing down the steps.


The wounds are healing
"I think they put us here because they were expecting suiciders to come into the flat because none of the soldiers were on the stairs - they were all inside the flat. They put us here so we'll be shot first."

Inside the flat, the soldiers punched holes in the walls of his living room, and bedroom. Through them, snipers exchanged fire with Palestinian militants. Hazem and his brothers heard it all, but could see nothing.

Hazem says he had little idea at the time exactly how long he was kept there. All he remembers was listening to the heavy gunfire around him, and counting the calls to prayer as they echoed over the area: one at lunchtime, one at tea-time, and one in the evening as the sun set. Twelve hours in all.

He says he expected to die any second. He still can't understand why, as civilians, they couldn't be kept in a room somewhere inside the house, where they would have been safer. But they put us in the middle of the clashes, he says. "There was no need for that."

Court outlawed tactic

Allegations over Israel's use of human shields have surfaced before. The last time they made headlines was during Operation Defensive Shield in the West Bank town of Jenin, four years ago.

This was a very blatant violation of the prohibition of the use of human shields

Yekhezel Lain, B'tselem
The army denied its personnel systematically used civilians as human shields during that operation, but it did issue an order outlawing the practice. As did the Israeli High Court.

But Yekhezel Lain, research director with the Israeli human rights group B'tselem says they are worried those guarantees are now being eroded. He says the cases in Beit Hanoun last week are the first of their kind since the High Court decision.

"This was a very blatant violation of the prohibition of the use of human shields," he tells me. "It was just soldiers hiding behind the back of civilians who were held with force in their homes."

B'tselem says it is investigating reports of other, similar incidents in Gaza during the past month. And it is worried that - having withdrawn from Gaza last year - the Israeli army may see the area as distinct from other Palestinian Territories.

The group is concerned about Israel establishing different rules in the case of the Gaza Strip where according to the state, there is no occupation any more - it's only a state of war, or armed conflict. The human rights group does not believe there is a difference when it comes to the protection of civilians.

The IDF told the BBC the claims in Beit Hanoun were being investigated, and that its soldiers were obliged to act in accordance with moral principles and the rules of engagement. Any misconduct, they said, would be looked into.

As he waits for news of his case in Beit Hanoun, Hazem Ali has got the builders in to fill the holes in his flat, re-glaze his windows and repair as much of the damage as he can.

His wife, meanwhile, is preparing for the birth of their first child. She is half Egyptian, and has been asking Hazem to move out of the Gaza Strip for months now. But he refuses to leave. There's no running away from Gaza, he says.



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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-25-06 10:17 AM

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150. ""Un calls Israel's use of force 'disproportionate'""
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

"Un calls Israel's use of force 'disproportionate'"
In response to Reply # 0




Last Updated: Tuesday, 25 July 2006, 12:01 GMT 13:01 UK

E-mail this to a friend Printable version

Gaza offensive 'disproportionate'

More than 100 people have been killed in Gaza in the past month
The UN's top humanitarian official Jan Egeland has described Israel's month-long military offensive in Gaza as a "disproportionate use of force".
Mr Egeland, who is in Gaza to assess the damage, said he was shocked by the targeting of civilian infrastructure including Gaza's only power plant.

More than 100 Palestinians have died in the violence in Gaza since June.

Israel says its attacks are aimed at freeing a captured soldier and stopping militants firing rockets into Israel.

Mr Egeland said that the bombing of the power plant would affect schools and hospitals more than the militants.

"This is very clear, a disproportionate use ," Mr Egeland told reporters.

"Civilian infrastructure is protected. The law is very clear. You cannot have any interpretation in any other way."

Power shortages

Israel launched its offensive in June after Cpl Gilad Shalit was abducted by militants linked to Hamas's military wing.

More than 100 Palestinians and an Israeli soldier have since died in clashes between Israeli troops and Palestinian militants.

Many of the dead have been militants, but civilians have also died under Israeli fire and air strikes.

Jerusalem says it is targeting civilian areas because militants use them as cover to launch rockets, and it is striking infrastructure to prevent militants moving Cpl Shalit around Gaza.

But human rights groups say electricity shortages and blockages are threatening medical services and causing businesses to close.

Israel's assault has prompted international calls for restraint, but a UN resolution urging Israel to stop the offensive was vetoed by the US at the Security Council earlier this month.

Exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal, along with the militants who seized Cpl Shalit, have been insisting that the soldier only be handed over in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.

However, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has ruled out any negotiations with the Hamas-led Palestinian government, calling the militant group a "terrorist bloody organisation".





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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
290 posts
Tue Jul-25-06 11:34 AM

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151. "How interesting that you would post an article from the BBC"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

but when the other poster did the exact same thing, you quickly dismissed it.


http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=9&topic_id=87534&mesg_id=87534&page=#88165

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Jul-25-06 12:30 PM

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152. "Um... why are you so focused on me AGAIN today?"
In response to Reply # 151
Tue Jul-25-06 12:32 PM by AquamansWrath

  

          

It's like when you know you are losing a dying cry...
you focus on Aqua. Just counter and be out.
Yes... an associated press article posted on the BBC can be countered.
Now... back to the topic... and NOT Aqua.
I mean I know your agenda... to play the Victim CARD...
but you see... Aqua knows your mind... yet you do not know his.
Also keep this in mind...
the BBC matters not... that's a quote from the UN and a Human Rights Organization... you were going to see that quote one way or another...
Smirk.
Enjoy the read.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-25-06 01:34 PM

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154. "WANNA KNOW WHAT IRONY IS?"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

ACLU appeals dismissal of German's CIA torture case 30 minutes ago



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The American Civil Liberties Union said on Tuesday it has appealed the dismissal of a federal lawsuit filed by a German of Lebanese origin who says he was abducted and tortured by the CIA.

The ACLU, which represents Khaled el-Masri in the suit against former CIA Director George Tenet and CIA agents, asked the federal appellate court in Richmond, Virginia, to overturn a May 18 ruling by U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis tossing out Masri's case as a risk to national security because it would expose state secrets.

In a case that has drew wide attention and spawned investigations in Europe, Kuwaiti-born Masri says he was abducted in Macedonia in December 2001, then drugged, beaten and flown by the CIA to Afghanistan, where he was held as a terrorism suspect for five months.

He says the CIA then dumped him in Albania. Tenet was director at the time.

The CIA declined to comment on the appeal.

Ellis agreed with Bush administration lawyers that Masri's case could not move forward without risking national security by exposing state secrets about CIA activities vital to the U.S. war on terrorism.

In a 17-page ruling, he said documents provided by the government showed that national security could be jeopardized "if the defendants in this case were required to admit or deny el Masri's allegations."

The ACLU said details of the case have already been disseminated widely by world media coverage.

"If this decision stands, the government will have a blank check to shield even its most shameful conduct from accountability," said ACLU attorney Ben Wizner.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
290 posts
Tue Jul-25-06 02:33 PM

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155. "How conceited of you"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

I just find you to be a piece of work, that's all. You said to the other poster that he was being manipulated by these networks, you said just because it's was in the news doesn't mean anything, yet, you post an article from the bbc. I just find that humorous - how you are very selective in what you read, and take in as fact.

  

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AquamansWrath
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Tue Jul-25-06 02:45 PM

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156. "Ok so you find me conceited... next caller... Lol."
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

I love how u didn't dare address the human shield piece...

lovely.

yes I did... cause the associated press is what it is... associated...
however the UN and the hUman rights organizations are not.
It's common sense.
You may find me conceited, which is fine with me...
but you will not call me a liar. LOl. Enjoy your read.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Wed Jul-26-06 10:04 AM

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157. "I love how they attack me... but not the issues... from the BBC"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

that's cause they are bitches at heart.




BBC News

Israel troops 'ignored' UN plea

Israel had hit Khiam a number of times earlier on Tuesday
UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.
The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say.

UN-led crisis talks in Rome ended with agreement to work for a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah but stopped short of calling for a truce.

Reports say up to 13 Israeli soldiers died in the latest fighting.

Mid-East crisis map
New force for peace?
The four unarmed UN observers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, died after their UN post was hit by an Israeli air strike on Tuesday.

The UN report says each time the UN contacted Israeli forces, they were assured the firing would stop.

Israel is conducting an investigation into the deaths, and has rejected accusations made by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan that the targeting of the UN position was "apparently deliberate".

In other developments:

A Jordanian military plane arrives in Beirut to evacuate some of the most seriously wounded Lebanese civilians

Ten trucks loaded with food and medical supplies head from Beirut to the beleaguered south of the country

Hezbollah's leader Hassan Nasrallah warns on TV that his organisation will begin firing rockets further south into Israel than Haifa
'Utmost urgency'

The Rome summit, called by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, brought together EU and Arab nations plus the US and Russia, but not Israel, Iran or Syria.

The conference released a declaration expressing "determination to work immediately to reach with utmost urgency a ceasefire to put an end to the current hostilities".

It also said a ceasefire "must be lasting, permanent and sustainable".

The statement called for an international force with a UN mandate for south Lebanon, and the full implementation of existing UN Security Council resolutions calling for the disarming of militias and deployment of Lebanese troops in the border region.

I cannot believe the level force by which Israel has decided to retaliate in Lebanon

Glen, Edinburgh


Send your comments
On the road with aid convoy
Diary: Rice's Mid-East mission
Mr Annan said it was important to work with the countries of the region, including Syria and Iran, to find a solution to the crisis.

But Condoleezza Rice was critical of the role of both countries.

"It's not a question of talking to Syria, it's whether Syria's prepared to act," she said.

In southern Lebanon, fierce clashes have continued between Israeli forces and Hezbollah fighters around the town of Bint Jbail.

Israel has not confirmed any deaths from among its soldiers, but says there have been 20 casualties.


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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Wed Jul-26-06 02:26 PM

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158. "More ..."
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

Collateral Damage
An Israeli air strike in southern Lebanon hits a bus filled with women and children trying to flee the region, raising questions about whether Israel is doing enough to avoid civilian casualties.
By Kevin Sites, Sun Jul 23, 9:02 PM ETEmail Story IM Story
TYRE, Lebanon -- Israeli air strikes are taking a tremendous toll on the civilian population in southern Lebanon, with an attack Sunday on a bus filled with women and children that left three dead and 13 injured, many of them severely.

At Jabal Amel Hospital in the southern city of Tyre, where most of the victims were taken after the incident, Rhonda Shaloub is wheeled into a recovery room next to her 15-year-old niece, Radije, following emergency surgery.



The aftermath of an Israeli air strike on a civilian bus » View


Their faces are both mummy-wrapped with gauze bandages. There are openings only for their noses and mouths. What can be seen of their faces is deeply disturbing. There is blood seeping at the edges of Rhonda's bandages, while Radije's lips are stitched with medical sutures, the skin on her chin speckled with red tissue damage caused by the blast.


Rhonda is still deeply sedated from surgery, but when she does regain consciousness she will be told that her husband and her mother are dead, both killed when the bus was hit.


A nurse at the hospital says the victims were traveling from their village of Tairi, fleeing north because of the air strikes, when their own bus was hit.


In another room down the hallway, another victim of the bus attack, Radia Shaitoo, raises her bandaged and broken arm near her face, which is covered with tiny blast lacerations. She rolls her head back and forth on the pillow and moans almost as if she is sick. She mumbles something like, "only people with no religion would do this," an insult against Israel.


The bus incident is the latest, and one of the most dramatic, illustrations of civilians being killed and wounded by Israeli air strikes, which Israel claims are focused on Hezbollah forces and weapons. Yet the strikes are having a punishing effect on the general Lebanese population and infrastructure.



Shell shock in Tyre » View


"People are starting to realize this isn't a war against Hezbollah," says Timor Goksel, former head of the U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon for more than 25 years. "It's a war against the country, against the infrastructure."


Some analysts have theorized that with attacks against civilians and non-military installations, Israel is trying to turn the Lebanese population against Hezbollah by making them pay a price as Hezbollah's host nation. Goksel says the strategy will never work, since Hezbollah isn't just an organization, but part of the fabric of Shia society.


"I spent a lot of time in the south," he says. "I've seen women down there attack Israeli tanks with knives. You're not going to turn these people against Hezbollah by making their lives miserable."


At the entrance to Jabel Amel Hospital, an exhausted medical technician, Bassem Mteirek, lies on an empty gurney, taking a short break from the flood of patients.


"We've seen more than 400 people come through this hospital in the last ten days," he says, shaking his head.


At the base of the gurney is a suitcase covered with blood. It belonged to one of the passengers on the bus. A man comes out of the entrance, talking on the telephone. He has lost his wife in the attack. He says he's too heartbroken to speak. He picks up the suitcase and walks back inside.


In another hospital room inside, Aneza Hamza lies in bed with a head injury and a broken leg, a victim of an earlier air strike. When I approach her, she covers the bandages on her head with her scarf. She is an older woman, but despite her injuries smiles beatifically and seems almost cheerful.


Aneza Hamza

"What can we do," she says, with a slight shrug.

Imani Darwish doesn't have a scratch but lost her husband and four of her eight children in an air strike against an apartment building in Tyre. The only reason she is alive, she says, is because one of her daughters was in the hospital, pregnant, and she was visiting. She shows no sign of grief or emotion about the loss.

"We can't cry every day," she says. "What good will that do? It's all up to God what happens."

Amina Shaloub and her 12-year-old son, Hussein, were victims of an air strike against a civil defense building in Tyre. Her face has the now familiar marks of blast trauma. Her son took shrapnel in the stomach, which had to be removed by surgeons.

"I'm happy for my life and I'm happy for the life of my son," she says. "But it doesn't really matter if we live or die. Whatever is God's will."

Asked if they can ever live in peace with Israel, especially after the toll from the recent air strikes, she is surprisingly conciliatory.

"If they stop bombing the women and children, if they let us live in freedom," she says, "then we can live with them like family, like brothers and sisters."

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
290 posts
Wed Jul-26-06 04:43 PM

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160. "this is why no one can take the title"leader of bizzaro world" -"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

away from you. With all the information you posted from other news networks, you still hold to the theory that this was orchestrated by Israel even though the facts discredit your otherwise, superficial claim.

Anyway, carry on.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Thu Jul-27-06 10:10 AM

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162. "whatever.. your still just focused on me..."
In response to Reply # 160
Thu Jul-27-06 10:12 AM by AquamansWrath

  

          

try responding to the post. thanks.
and it's only bizarre to you cause it doesn't match your white world...
if I were tap dancing and cooning for you you'd love it...
so try responding to the deaths of the UN officials and the human shields piece please... thank u...

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
290 posts
Thu Jul-27-06 12:04 PM

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164. "RE: whatever.. your still just focused on me..."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

>try responding to the post. thanks.

My response is aim at your theory, but you can't take the criticism.

>and it's only bizarre to you cause it doesn't match your white
>world...

So now there's a white world of thought now huh?

>if I were tap dancing and cooning for you you'd love it...

Don't really care.

>so try responding to the deaths of the UN officials and the
>human shields piece please... thank u...

What else is there to say other than this is conflict is a mess.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Thu Jul-27-06 12:52 PM

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165. "your aim was on my opinion... you didn't bring anything to the table"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

everything suggests that I am accurate...
from the UN questioning their aggression...
to the fact that two soldiers kidnapped is child's play in the major scheme of things...
to them kidnapping the Hamas democratically elected officials
to using human shields
to killing un observers
again... I know you don't agree with my position... so anything short of simply countering, is you attacking me... I'm not stupid mufucka you don't think I know? lol... yes.. you are who are you are you not?
it shapes your opinion. Anyone in their right fucking mind knows Israel set this up with assistance from the us... you are going to have to do alot more than just say 'i don't agree... that's superficial' cause on the real Israel is FOUL. VERY FOUL... and everyone knows it.
Ok?
Ok.

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nycresident
Member since Apr 13th 2006
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Thu Jul-27-06 06:38 PM

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167. "If you are correct, then just answer this one question"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

If infact Israel kidnapped their own soliders, why do we have both Hezbollah and Hamas claim responsibility for these kidnappings? Or do you even care whether you are wrong or not?

I believe someone asked you this earlier on this thread, but you've managed to avoid answering the question.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Jul-28-06 08:46 AM

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168. "It was a set up.. Israel kidnapped several people first... AND"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

don't you find it odd that Hamas and Hezbollah both supposedly kidnapped the same people? One is in Lebanon the other in Palestine?
Don't you find it odd that they went and kidnapped elected officials of Hamas? Something they wanted to do from day one.

Still you didn't comment on Israel using women and children as human shield or killing UN observers... you care to defend that?
Hmmmmmm?

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"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Jul-28-06 08:59 AM

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169. "Also, where is the video of the kidnapped soldier?"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

why hasn't anything been uploaded to Al jazeera?
Also... didn't they retrive one of the soldiers out of Lebanon SUPPOSEDLY?
If so... why would Hamas (out of Palestine) claim him?
I have seen nothing with my own two eyes of either Hezbollah or Hamas claiming anyone. Just western press coming from Israel mind you saying they did.
Even if they did kidnapp them, let me play devil's advocate... even if they did... they levelled an entire country for the lives of two soldiers? Proof they have no respect for those people. They have killed over 350 people in Lebanon... one third were children.
C'mon now. That's FOUL. Justify it all you want, it is what is it... EVIL. Now I'm not one to say 'all of Israel is evil'.. nah man not my style... there are some decent people there... but most Israeli's harbor a overwhelming superiority complex stemming from the lie that they think they are God's children. That arrogance is more pronounced when your dealing with cultural sensitivity. Mind you, people will justify it as God promised Abraham that land... okay fine, they are there. I don't think that's an issue anymore... it's their domination and control of their neighbors that's the problem.
Two soldiers dissapear so they kidnapp their entire government?
Huh? how does that work? Ridiculous. Then they will play teh VICTIM CARD not realizing that they are being the aggressor. It's delusional. Quite delusional. Spare me the hallmark shit...
Muslims lives are equal that of Jewish lives and vice versa...
once that's respected and understood you can have peace.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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LurkerTurnedPoster
Member since Jan 10th 2006
88 posts
Wed Jul-26-06 04:01 PM

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159. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A militant group (maybe hamas) has already claimed responsiblity for the kidnapping of that solider.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Thu Jul-27-06 10:10 AM

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163. "maybe hamas? so you think one has but you don't know there name"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

please lead us to the altar... lol.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Thu Jul-27-06 03:09 PM

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166. "TO THINK THEY JUST SAID THEY WERE GOING TO FALLBACK"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

WAY TO KEEP YOUR WORD.

Israel calling up 30,000 reserve soldiers By RAVI NESSMAN, Associated Press Writer


JERUSALEM - Israel's government decided Thursday not to expand its battle with Hezbollah guerrillas in southern Lebanon for now, but authorized the army to call up 30,000 reserve soldiers in case the fighting intensified. The Lebanese health minister said up to 600 civilians have been killed in the campaign, including as many as 200 still buried in the rubble of destroyed buildings.

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Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, meanwhile, said she was "willing and ready" to return to the region to work for a sustainable peace agreement. But President Bush suggested he would support the offensive for as long as it would take to cripple Hezbollah.

Bush also sharply condemned Iran for its support of Hezbollah.

The events signaled that Israel and the United States were settling in for a much longer battle than had initially been expected, one that could grow far bloodier if Israel decides its air attacks and small-scale invasion into Lebanon is not working and sends in thousands of more ground forces.

With no end in sight to the fighting, al Qaida weighed in Thursday for the first time since the Israeli offensive began, vowing to attack "everywhere" until Islam prevails.

In recent days, senior Israeli generals urged the government to authorize a broader ground campaign in southern Lebanon, which they said would help the thousands of troops already engaged in bloody battles there.

Israel's security Cabinet authorized the army to call up three additional reserve divisions to refresh the troops in Lebanon if they were needed, but rejected the generals' advice to expand the offensive.

However, Justice Minister Haim Ramon said that world leaders' failure to call for an immediate cease-fire during a Rome summit gave Israel a green light to carry on with its campaign to crush Hezbollah — an assertion hotly rejected by European officials.

The conference ended Wednesday in disagreement, with most European leaders calling for an immediate cease-fire and the United States wanting to give Israel more time to neutralize Hezbollah.

"We received yesterday at the Rome conference permission from the world .... to continue the operation, this war, until Hezbollah won't be located in Lebanon and until it is disarmed," Ramon told Israel's Army Radio.

European leaders said Ramon's interpretation was badly mistaken.

"I would say just the opposite — yesterday in Rome it was clear that everyone present wanted to see an end to the fighting as swiftly as possible," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said.

Israeli airstrikes on southern Lebanon on Thursday struck roads and houses, many believed to be the deserted homes of Hezbollah activists, in the apple-growing region of Iqlim al-Tuffah. The strikes caused casualties, but fighting kept ambulances and civil defense crews from the areas, security officials and witnesses said.

Other strikes hit a Lebanese army base in the north, while artillery and warplanes pounded the area near the border, according to witnesses. However, the fierce ground battles that raged Wednesday through the border villages of Bint Jbail and Maroun al-Ras appeared to have abated, with U.N. observers reporting only "sporadic fighting" there.

Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said the strategic damage to Hezbollah was "enormous" and vowed that the group would "not return to what it was."

Israel launched its offensive in Lebanon on July 12, after Hezbollah guerrillas overran the border, killed three Israeli soldiers on patrol and captured two others.

Since then, at least 429 people in Lebanon — most of them civilians — have been killed in a punishing campaign of airstrikes, artillery shelling and clashes, according to Lebanese officials and Hezbollah. A total of 33 Israeli soldiers died in the fighting and 19 civilians were killed in Hezbollah's unyielding rocket attacks on Israel's northern towns, the army said.

The guerrillas shot 110 rockets into Israel on Thursday, lightly wounding 20 people and bringing the total of rockets launched to 1,564.

The army broadcast a warning on its Arabic-language radio station Thursday telling Lebanese in the south that their villages would be "totally destroyed" if rockets were fired from them.

Army Chief of Staff Dan Halutz said there have been hundreds of Hezbollah casualties and that "we have caused serious damage to their rocket launching capabilities."

But Lebanese President Emile Lahoud, a staunch supporter of Hezbollah, said Israel would never be able to crush the group militarily, and should stop fighting and start talking.

"Whatever it (Israel) does it's not going to reach its goal," he told The Associated Press. "They're not going to be able to take out the weaponry of Hezbollah. So all they're doing is massive destruction."

Meanwhile, al-Qaida issued its first response to the violence, threatening to retaliate with new attacks.

The videotape by Osama bin Laden deputy Ayman al-Zawahri was an effort by the terror network to rally Islamic militants by exploited Israel's two-pronged offensive — against Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas-linked militants in Gaza.

"We cannot just watch these shells as they burn our brothers in Gaza and Lebanon and stand by idly, humiliated," al-Zawahri said, adding that "all the world is a battlefield open in front of us."

"The war with Israel does not depend on cease-fires. ... It is a jihad (holy war) for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," he said. "We will attack everywhere."

In Damascus, Syrian and Iranian officials gathered to hold meetings on the crisis, according to Iranian and Kuwaiti news reports. Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah was also to take part in the meeting as well as Syrian President Bashar Assad, according to Kuwait's Al-Siyassah newspaper, known for its opposition to the Syrian regime.

The newspaper said the meeting was designed to discuss ways to maintain supplies to Hezbollah fighters with "Iranian arms flowing through Syrian territories."

Hezbollah spokesman Hussein Rahhal would not comment on whether Nasrallah, whose movements are kept strictly secret, was in Damascus but was dismissive of the Kuwaiti newspaper report.

With cease-fire efforts stalemated, Rice — who was in Malaysia after a trip to Beirut, Jerusalem and the Rome conference — said she was prepared to make a second tour of the Middle East, but did not announce a timetable.

"I am more than happy to go back," Rice said, if her efforts can "move toward a sustainable cease-fire that would end the violence."

In his interview with Army Radio, Ramon said the Israeli air force must bomb villages before ground forces enter, suggesting that this would help prevent future Israeli casualties. Ramon spoke a day after nine soldiers were killed in house-to-house fighting in two border villages. Hezbollah acknowledged Thursday that it lost five fighters in that fighting, though Israel said at least 30 were killed.

Asked whether entire villages should be flattened, he said: "These places are not villages. They are military bases in which Hezbollah people are hiding and from which they are operating."

Thousands of civilians are believed trapped in the border villages, according to humanitarian officials.

International Red Cross spokesman Hisham Hassan said their teams that have visited border villages under heavy bombardment, have found families hiding in schools, mosques and churches, or huddled together in homes they hope will withstand the barrage.

"But even the residents we speak to can't say how many are there, because everyone's hiding, they don't know who's dead or alive," he said.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
13185 posts
Mon Aug-07-06 08:33 AM

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175. "yeah...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to me it seems pretty open and shut. Even if it the events transpired as Isreal describes, there is STILL absolutely no justification for the sort of violence that's coming about as a result of 2 soldiers being kidnapped.

Secondly, there is no doubt that this shit is going to be used a proxy war between iran and the us, and might lead up to a real one, god forbid.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Mon Aug-07-06 01:23 PM

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177. "basically, they throwing Iran and Syria's name around like"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

they are trying their best to instigate... on some "you want some too nigga? huh... I thought not punk" - mushes them in the head with one finger "yeah... and tell your bitch to c'mere" type shit...
just straight foul... and if Syria or Iran light's fire to that ass.... then it's time to cry in front of the camera...
I swear...
that's all they talked about on Meet the Press... how Syria and Iran is backing Hezbollah...

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"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
13185 posts
Mon Aug-07-06 06:47 PM

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182. "yeah, i peeped that meet the press show"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

even tho' i usually avoid the sunday morning "white men lying" shows.

At some point i'm actually expecting George Will to mount Fareed Zacariah and recite some Rudyard Kipling

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Tue Aug-08-06 07:46 AM

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183. "RE: basically, they throwing Iran and Syria's name around like"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

>they are trying their best to instigate... on some "you want
>some too nigga? huh... I thought not punk" - mushes them in
>the head with one finger "yeah... and tell your bitch to
>c'mere" type shit...
>just straight foul... and if Syria or Iran light's fire to
>that ass.... then it's time to cry in front of the camera...
>I swear...
>that's all they talked about on Meet the Press... how Syria
>and Iran is backing Hezbollah...


Witch is true and out in the open

You always say that the US and the coalition is targeting Syria and Iran next for "invasion", that Syria and Iran are the next targets in the middle east...

Ofcourse they are, your not bringing in anything new, and its funny how you say again and again like a little boy "look i said its gonna happen, remember what i said, they are going to attack syria and iran, to take over the middle east, look , look, i said so, i said so"

your on a paranoid-ego trip, but thats nothing new

Ofcourse the are targeting Syria and Iran next, because these two states (more Iran less Syria) are a part of the incorrect control of thier own masses, thier iresponsobile teachings and preachings to thier people of misinformation about islam and "Jihad". The twisting of thier masses view's on the west,israel,jews and progress.

The infinite resources of Iran are not benefiting the people yet the soley the corrupt leaders.

How can you say Hizbullah is not a terrorist organization?

Lets put some points down

Hizbullah has members in the Lebanese parlament.
Hizbullah is a political party in Lebanon.

How can a political party have an army?
That acts without even asking the Lebanese government/army?
That engaged a war with Israel when suddenly attacking a jeep killing 4 soldiers and kidnapping 2?
(That sparked the conflict with lebanon,let us not forget)

Yet Syria has the most to loose here, Asad is like the kid in school that cant stand up to the bully (Ahamadenijad and Hatami) and say NO TO "ISLAMIC JIHAD" and hatred,


DAMN! i gtg to work
be back later

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Aug-08-06 10:08 AM

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184. "Actually, I have been saying this for YEARS... not months"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

When I first posted it... people said "no way" or "stop it with your conspiracies"... so then I created a post suggesting we keep track of the disinformation process...
the very first one was an article posted in the Ny POst saying "Strange Iranian man seen taking pictures of Brooklyn Bridge and NJersey Nuclear Reactors"... immediately a flag went off and then I broke out a map... knowing this is a war of Oil and Power... knowing Iran is an enemy state to Saudi Arabia... knowing the business relationship between Bush and the Saudis... knowing about the Oil Pipeline (the reason they are in iraq) etc...

and Dogtor... please... I bring something new to the table DAILY...
try doing it once.
Peace.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Wed Aug-09-06 07:32 AM

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185. "You are my sunshine"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

My only sunshine
You make happy
When skies are gray

Youll never know dear
How much I love you
Oh please dont take
My sunshine away



how's that?



Besides , Iran is bad ppl, and if lets say the President of Malta came out and said

"The USA has no right to exist, it should be wiped off the map and all thier citizens killed, and slavery never happened, its made believe"

would you support this dude? In any way?

Cause if your backing Hizbullah , your backing Iran.

and a few more points

Hizbullah took Lebanon hostage when deciding to attack one of the strongest countries in the region without even asking parlament, acting on its own against its own countries limits and desires.
Lebanon didnt want a war, Hizbullah did.

and they got thier war, they went to war, with a stronger advisary.
and usually, anywhere you go, you dont pick on someone bigger than you,cause you dont want to get beat up.
but if you dont care of taking a few blows and your a little bit sadistic, then you pick the fight anyway, get beat up, and only when you see some blood, then your satisfied.

but im just rambling on
the death toll on Israeli is large aswell, there are 2 million Israeli refugees that escaped northern israel that is being pounded daily by hundreds of missles, daily, hundreds...
but you dont see the IDF going

"WE SHOT 300 BULLETS AT YOU TODAY HAHA!!!"

like Hizbullah does, they are stupid,brainwashed,mislead,ignorant pawns. with only hatred on thier minds.


bah , im tired of this war
and tired of talking about it
and tired of watching young american kids on this board supporting the wrong side because they think they are in the struggle together against totalarism or control or just youthfull rebelion, when they just cant see that when you support the wrong side, it will come back to haunt you, cause when the day comes and your under the command of the wrong general, your going to places you never wanted to be before

but im rambling
LETS GO MACCABI HAIFA VS. LIVERPOOL TODAY

YALLA HAIFA YALLA!@!!$@!@$!@$!$@

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Aug-11-06 04:18 PM

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186. "First of all I'm not backing anyone... that's the problem with your mind"
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

and line of thinking...
either one way or another... that's what shows me your thoughts are limited and underdeveloped.
First, it's the CIA and Bush trying to Connect Hezbollah and Iran...

that's not even the issue, I don't care who backs them and I don't believe anything the Bush administration tells me...

second, the issue is Israel killed hundreds and possibly thousands of people for two military men securing a hostile border... does that seem right to you? If so your sick.
Cause it's not... in addition to that I don't even believed it happened at all... I believe it was a setup... one way or another... cause they are purposely trying to engage Iran and Syria. I'm glad those two countries have remained quiet. My problem isn't with Iran and Syria... my problem is with the US and Israel acting like bullies or like that scene in the Warriors with the dude with the coke bottles on his fingers saying "Syria... come out and playeeeeyyyaaayyyyy...." the shit is childish, evil, arrogant, and disgusting.

It's just like with the so-called terror plot...
Bush says "we are at war with Islamic Fascists who hate freedom"
No we are not and that's a lie.
What happened happened because he LIED about his interests in Iraq, he invaded a country based on false information
he destroyed there wellbeing, their livelihood
and has pulled them into a civil war.

That and another country backed by the US (Israel) invaded Lebanon based on weak excuses and did the same damn thing to them.

That's why what happened in the UK happened... not cause they hate freedom.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Sat Aug-12-06 09:04 AM

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188. "suck my underdeveloped"
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

>and line of thinking...
>either one way or another... that's what shows me your
>thoughts are limited and underdeveloped.
>First, it's the CIA and Bush trying to Connect Hezbollah and
>Iran...

Oh really?!?! Really Aquaman?!!?
You mean, it isnt the weapons and money that Iran is sending hizbullah?!?!? Really?
Its not the THOUSANDS OF FUCKING IRANIAN MISSLES BEING FIRED INTO ISRAEL FOR THE PAST MONTH?!!?!!!?!!? Really?!??!

It isnt the weapons, the training, the command?!?!?!?!?

WELL THEN I GUESS YOUR RIGHT. man, i dont know if you got shit for brains or your being this stupid and innocent on purpose.

Hizbullah has nothing to do with Iran, hell, when you ask Nassralla
"Hey shiek, you ever heard of this dude Iran or Ahmadenijad? He set a goal for himself in life to kill jews and wipe out Israel, and in the meantime your attacking Israel, ever hear of Iran?"

Hell probably answer : "Iran? Whats that? Never heard of it, the CIA is making up stuff"

>that's not even the issue, I don't care who backs them and I
>don't believe anything the Bush administration tells me...

You probably dont believe the nutricious facts on your cereal box


>second, the issue is Israel killed hundreds and possibly
>thousands of people for two military men securing a hostile
>border... does that seem right to you? If so your sick.

God damn, your forgetting about the fucking Missles!!! THE MISSLES!!!!

That even now!! after Olmert signed the cease fire and Israeli forces are coming back home, THEY ARE STILL FIRING HUNDREDS OF MISSLES!!!!
2 people were killed this morning!!!! AND HUNDREDS OF ISRAELIS WERE KILLED DURING THIS FRONT!!

but that never seems to even pass through your head, no matter how many times i tell you, you pay no attention what so ever to Israeli victims. While Israel's !!Prime Minister!! opologizes publicly for any innocents that were killed, and Hizbullah dance like its 1999 for the camera, they dont give a fuck.

Where are these missles being fired from?
Houses, regular homes with families.
Hizbullah comes to a house in some village, gives them a thousand rockets and a rocket launcher, dig a hole in the ground, put the missles there, cover the hole, build a school on top of it and tell the people living near by, "when you get the call go loose,have fun, cya around"

Thats how it goes down.

When you ask these families "Why would you build a school near these missles? Isnt that dangerous for them?"

They answer!!!
"Well, that way, the jews loose anyway, if its from our missles shooting them, or them killing these kids for everyone to see, its a win win situation"

Thats how it goes down.

lil ol ladies firing rockets out thier backyard, 2 feet away from thier laundry line.





>Cause it's not... in addition to that I don't even believed it
>happened at all... I believe it was a setup... one way or
>another... cause they are purposely trying to engage Iran and
>Syria. I'm glad those two countries have remained quiet. My
>problem isn't with Iran and Syria... my problem is with the US
>and Israel acting like bullies or like that scene in the
>Warriors with the dude with the coke bottles on his fingers
>saying "Syria... come out and playeeeeyyyaaayyyyy...." the
>shit is childish, evil, arrogant, and disgusting.

You got a wild imagination, you should write books or scripts or smt...


>It's just like with the so-called terror plot...
>Bush says "we are at war with Islamic Fascists who hate
>freedom"
>No we are not and that's a lie.

HAHA
Terrorists dont exist, its make believe.
Your seriously a goddamn ignorant idiot.
Your like the three monkeys all in one.


>What happened happened because he LIED about his interests in
>Iraq, he invaded a country based on false information
>he destroyed there wellbeing, their livelihood
>and has pulled them into a civil war.
>
>That and another country backed by the US (Israel) invaded
>Lebanon based on weak excuses and did the same damn thing to
>them.

Invaded? man stfu , Israel is pulling back ONCE AGAIN from lebanon, lets see what happens the next time THEY ATTACK. cause they do and they will.


>That's why what happened in the UK happened... not cause they
>hate freedom.

Wait, so your validating that terrorists tried to highjack and airplane? I though terrorists dont exist and there is no such thing as Islamic extremists that want to doom the west and Israel.
but wait a minute, so it did happen?
Make up your mind.

Yeah, the dudes in the UK wanted to kill innocent people from different countries and different places, highjack airlplanes and do god knows what witht them, cause they hate israel and the US, good excuse right? well, if they hate the US and Israel, well...you can understand them....right?
Not because they are fucking terrorists that harm the free world.


You are a fucking moron and you are completley lost in your meaningless battles inside your brain.

I just hope you dont have any kids.


Im the devil.
boo.

but its over, so back to the south and Gaza

yipeeee , its a never ending party for Israel.




~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Fri Aug-18-06 03:36 PM

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196. "just ridiculous and childish... and underdeveloped. Lol."
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

on every level and probably in every way.
Smirk.
Thanks for wasting our time as usual.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Sat Aug-19-06 03:42 PM

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200. "ahhh go suck some dick racist"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Tue Aug-22-06 12:48 PM

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202. "you do realize everytime you open your mouth..."
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

you are repping your people... right?

And I'm not racist... I just do to others as they do to me... that simple.

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Wed Aug-23-06 06:22 AM

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205. "shut up"
In response to Reply # 202


  

          

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
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Wed Aug-23-06 09:13 AM

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207. "As I was saying about Israel being obsessive and FOUL..."
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

it's good to know that even Israeli's are looking into this...
most are simply wounded emotionally on some football shit "how could we lose"? I mean this whole God's Childrens thing has gotten way out of control... wayyy out of control... but it's good to have a force like Hezbollah as it doesn't give Israel the right to simply punk Lebanon whenever it wants... however, any violence should be refuted... I simply do not understand that mentality...

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
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Wed Aug-23-06 09:28 AM

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209. "shut up"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Fri Aug-11-06 04:21 PM

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187. "those two countries, just like Lebanon and Iraq have done nothing"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

to the US.
Oil, Oil, Oil, Oil, Oil, Oil, Oil.
Just be clear... dont front... that's what makes you a devil... always trying to justify some shit that is just FOUL.

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Who's fucking wit B More right now?

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twistyroad
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Sat Aug-19-06 06:37 PM

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201. "You're right: (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Long but excellent article about daily provocations between Israel and Hezbollah, how the U.S. helped Israel plan for Israel's air war BEFORE the kidnappings and how it was being used as a test run for a similar U.S. campaign in Iran.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact



WATCHING LEBANON
Washington’s interests in Israel’s war.
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2006-08-21
Posted 2006-08-14

In the days after Hezbollah crossed from Lebanon into Israel, on July 12th, to kidnap two soldiers, triggering an Israeli air attack on Lebanon and a full-scale war, the Bush Administration seemed strangely passive. “It’s a moment of clarification,” President George W. Bush said at the G-8 summit, in St. Petersburg, on July 16th. “It’s now become clear why we don’t have peace in the Middle East.” He described the relationship between Hezbollah and its supporters in Iran and Syria as one of the “root causes of instability,” and subsequently said that it was up to those countries to end the crisis. Two days later, despite calls from several governments for the United States to take the lead in negotiations to end the fighting, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that a ceasefire should be put off until “the conditions are conducive.”

The Bush Administration, however, was closely involved in the planning of Israel’s retaliatory attacks. President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced, current and former intelligence and diplomatic officials told me, that a successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign against Hezbollah’s heavily fortified underground-missile and command-and-control complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel’s security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American preëmptive attack to destroy Iran’s nuclear installations, some of which are also buried deep underground.

Israeli military and intelligence experts I spoke to emphasized that the country’s immediate security issues were reason enough to confront Hezbollah, regardless of what the Bush Administration wanted. Shabtai Shavit, a national-security adviser to the Knesset who headed the Mossad, Israel’s foreign-intelligence service, from 1989 to 1996, told me, “We do what we think is best for us, and if it happens to meet America’s requirements, that’s just part of a relationship between two friends. Hezbollah is armed to the teeth and trained in the most advanced technology of guerrilla warfare. It was just a matter of time. We had to address it.”

Hezbollah is seen by Israelis as a profound threat—a terrorist organization, operating on their border, with a military arsenal that, with help from Iran and Syria, has grown stronger since the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon ended, in 2000. Hezbollah’s leader, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, has said he does not believe that Israel is a “legal state.” Israeli intelligence estimated at the outset of the air war that Hezbollah had roughly five hundred medium-range Fajr-3 and Fajr-5 rockets and a few dozen long-range Zelzal rockets; the Zelzals, with a range of about two hundred kilometres, could reach Tel Aviv. (One rocket hit Haifa the day after the kidnappings.) It also has more than twelve thousand shorter-range rockets. Since the conflict began, more than three thousand of these have been fired at Israel.

According to a Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of both the Israeli and the U.S. governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah—and shared it with Bush Administration officials—well before the July 12th kidnappings. “It’s not that the Israelis had a trap that Hezbollah walked into,” he said, “but there was a strong feeling in the White House that sooner or later the Israelis were going to do it.”

The Middle East expert said that the Administration had several reasons for supporting the Israeli bombing campaign. Within the State Department, it was seen as a way to strengthen the Lebanese government so that it could assert its authority over the south of the country, much of which is controlled by Hezbollah. He went on, “The White House was more focussed on stripping Hezbollah of its missiles, because, if there was to be a military option against Iran’s nuclear facilities, it had to get rid of the weapons that Hezbollah could use in a potential retaliation at Israel. Bush wanted both. Bush was going after Iran, as part of the Axis of Evil, and its nuclear sites, and he was interested in going after Hezbollah as part of his interest in democratization, with Lebanon as one of the crown jewels of Middle East democracy.”

Administration officials denied that they knew of Israel’s plan for the air war. The White House did not respond to a detailed list of questions. In response to a separate request, a National Security Council spokesman said, “Prior to Hezbollah’s attack on Israel, the Israeli government gave no official in Washington any reason to believe that Israel was planning to attack. Even after the July 12th attack, we did not know what the Israeli plans were.” A Pentagon spokesman said, “The United States government remains committed to a diplomatic solution to the problem of Iran’s clandestine nuclear weapons program,” and denied the story, as did a State Department spokesman.

The United States and Israel have shared intelligence and enjoyed close military coöperation for decades, but early this spring, according to a former senior intelligence official, high-level planners from the U.S. Air Force—under pressure from the White House to develop a war plan for a decisive strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities—began consulting with their counterparts in the Israeli Air Force.

“The big question for our Air Force was how to hit a series of hard targets in Iran successfully,” the former senior intelligence official said. “Who is the closest ally of the U.S. Air Force in its planning? It’s not Congo—it’s Israel. Everybody knows that Iranian engineers have been advising Hezbollah on tunnels and underground gun emplacements. And so the Air Force went to the Israelis with some new tactics and said to them, ‘Let’s concentrate on the bombing and share what we have on Iran and what you have on Lebanon.’ ” The discussions reached the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, he said.

“The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war with many benefits,” a U.S. government consultant with close ties to Israel said. “Why oppose it? We’ll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran.”

A Pentagon consultant said that the Bush White House “has been agitating for some time to find a reason for a preëmptive blow against Hezbollah.” He added, “It was our intent to have Hezbollah diminished, and now we have someone else doing it.” (As this article went to press, the United Nations Security Council passed a ceasefire resolution, although it was unclear if it would change the situation on the ground.)

According to Richard Armitage, who served as Deputy Secretary of State in Bush’s first term—and who, in 2002, said that Hezbollah “may be the A team of terrorists”—Israel’s campaign in Lebanon, which has faced unexpected difficulties and widespread criticism, may, in the end, serve as a warning to the White House about Iran. “If the most dominant military force in the region—the Israel Defense Forces—can’t pacify a country like Lebanon, with a population of four million, you should think carefully about taking that template to Iran, with strategic depth and a population of seventy million,” Armitage said. “The only thing that the bombing has achieved so far is to unite the population against the Israelis.”

Several current and former officials involved in the Middle East told me that Israel viewed the soldiers’ kidnapping as the opportune moment to begin its planned military campaign against Hezbollah. “Hezbollah, like clockwork, was instigating something small every month or two,” the U.S. government consultant with ties to Israel said. Two weeks earlier, in late June, members of Hamas, the Palestinian group, had tunnelled under the barrier separating southern Gaza from Israel and captured an Israeli soldier. Hamas also had lobbed a series of rockets at Israeli towns near the border with Gaza. In response, Israel had initiated an extensive bombing campaign and reoccupied parts of Gaza.

The Pentagon consultant noted that there had also been cross-border incidents involving Israel and Hezbollah, in both directions, for some time. “They’ve been sniping at each other,” he said. “Either side could have pointed to some incident and said ‘We have to go to war with these guys’—because they were already at war.”

David Siegel, the spokesman at the Israeli Embassy in Washington, said that the Israeli Air Force had not been seeking a reason to attack Hezbollah. “We did not plan the campaign. That decision was forced on us.” There were ongoing alerts that Hezbollah “was pressing to go on the attack,” Siegel said. “Hezbollah attacks every two or three months,” but the kidnapping of the soldiers raised the stakes.

In interviews, several Israeli academics, journalists, and retired military and intelligence officers all made one point: they believed that the Israeli leadership, and not Washington, had decided that it would go to war with Hezbollah. Opinion polls showed that a broad spectrum of Israelis supported that choice. “The neocons in Washington may be happy, but Israel did not need to be pushed, because Israel has been wanting to get rid of Hezbollah,” Yossi Melman, a journalist for the newspaper Ha’aretz, who has written several books about the Israeli intelligence community, said. “By provoking Israel, Hezbollah provided that opportunity.”

“We were facing a dilemma,” an Israeli official said. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert “had to decide whether to go for a local response, which we always do, or for a comprehensive response—to really take on Hezbollah once and for all.” Olmert made his decision, the official said, only after a series of Israeli rescue efforts failed.

The U.S. government consultant with close ties to Israel told me, however, that, from Israel’s perspective, the decision to take strong action had become inevitable weeks earlier, after the Israeli Army’s signals intelligence group, known as Unit 8200, picked up bellicose intercepts in late spring and early summer, involving Hamas, Hezbollah, and Khaled Meshal, the Hamas leader now living in Damascus.

One intercept was of a meeting in late May of the Hamas political and military leadership, with Meshal participating by telephone. “Hamas believed the call from Damascus was scrambled, but Israel had broken the code,” the consultant said. For almost a year before its victory in the Palestinian elections in January, Hamas had curtailed its terrorist activities. In the late May intercepted conversation, the consultant told me, the Hamas leadership said that “they got no benefit from it, and were losing standing among the Palestinian population.” The conclusion, he said, was “ ‘Let’s go back into the terror business and then try and wrestle concessions from the Israeli government.’ ” The consultant told me that the U.S. and Israel agreed that if the Hamas leadership did so, and if Nasrallah backed them up, there should be “a full-scale response.” In the next several weeks, when Hamas began digging the tunnel into Israel, the consultant said, Unit 8200 “picked up signals intelligence involving Hamas, Syria, and Hezbollah, saying, in essence, that they wanted Hezbollah to ‘warm up’ the north.” In one intercept, the consultant said, Nasrallah referred to Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz “as seeming to be weak,” in comparison with the former Prime Ministers Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak, who had extensive military experience, and said “he thought Israel would respond in a small-scale, local way, as they had in the past.”

Earlier this summer, before the Hezbollah kidnappings, the U.S. government consultant said, several Israeli officials visited Washington, separately, “to get a green light for the bombing operation and to find out how much the United States would bear.” The consultant added, “Israel began with Cheney. It wanted to be sure that it had his support and the support of his office and the Middle East desk of the National Security Council.” After that, “persuading Bush was never a problem, and Condi Rice was on board,” the consultant said.

The initial plan, as outlined by the Israelis, called for a major bombing campaign in response to the next Hezbollah provocation, according to the Middle East expert with knowledge of U.S. and Israeli thinking. Israel believed that, by targeting Lebanon’s infrastructure, including highways, fuel depots, and even the civilian runways at the main Beirut airport, it could persuade Lebanon’s large Christian and Sunni populations to turn against Hezbollah, according to the former senior intelligence official. The airport, highways, and bridges, among other things, have been hit in the bombing campaign. The Israeli Air Force had flown almost nine thousand missions as of last week. (David Siegel, the Israeli spokesman, said that Israel had targeted only sites connected to Hezbollah; the bombing of bridges and roads was meant to prevent the transport of weapons.)

The Israeli plan, according to the former senior intelligence official, was “the mirror image of what the United States has been planning for Iran.” (The initial U.S. Air Force proposals for an air attack to destroy Iran’s nuclear capacity, which included the option of intense bombing of civilian infrastructure targets inside Iran, have been resisted by the top leadership of the Army, the Navy, and the Marine Corps, according to current and former officials. They argue that the Air Force plan will not work and will inevitably lead, as in the Israeli war with Hezbollah, to the insertion of troops on the ground.)

Uzi Arad, who served for more than two decades in the Mossad, told me that to the best of his knowledge the contacts between the Israeli and U.S. governments were routine, and that, “in all my meetings and conversations with government officials, never once did I hear anyone refer to prior coördination with the United States.” He was troubled by one issue—the speed with which the Olmert government went to war. “For the life of me, I’ve never seen a decision to go to war taken so speedily,” he said. “We usually go through long analyses.”

The key military planner was Lieutenant General Dan Halutz, the I.D.F. chief of staff, who, during a career in the Israeli Air Force, worked on contingency planning for an air war with Iran. Olmert, a former mayor of Jerusalem, and Peretz, a former labor leader, could not match his experience and expertise.

In the early discussions with American officials, I was told by the Middle East expert and the government consultant, the Israelis repeatedly pointed to the war in Kosovo as an example of what Israel would try to achieve. The NATO forces commanded by U.S. Army General Wesley Clark methodically bombed and strafed not only military targets but tunnels, bridges, and roads, in Kosovo and elsewhere in Serbia, for seventy-eight days before forcing Serbian forces to withdraw from Kosovo. “Israel studied the Kosovo war as its role model,” the government consultant said. “The Israelis told Condi Rice, ‘You did it in about seventy days, but we need half of that—thirty-five days.’ ”

There are, of course, vast differences between Lebanon and Kosovo. Clark, who retired from the military in 2000 and unsuccessfully ran as a Democrat for the Presidency in 2004, took issue with the analogy: “If it’s true that the Israeli campaign is based on the American approach in Kosovo, then it missed the point. Ours was to use force to obtain a diplomatic objective—it was not about killing people.” Clark noted in a 2001 book, “Waging Modern War,” that it was the threat of a possible ground invasion as well as the bombing that forced the Serbs to end the war. He told me, “In my experience, air campaigns have to be backed, ultimately, by the will and capability to finish the job on the ground.”

Kosovo has been cited publicly by Israeli officials and journalists since the war began. On August 6th, Prime Minister Olmert, responding to European condemnation of the deaths of Lebanese civilians, said, “Where do they get the right to preach to Israel? European countries attacked Kosovo and killed ten thousand civilians. Ten thousand! And none of these countries had to suffer before that from a single rocket. I’m not saying it was wrong to intervene in Kosovo. But please: don’t preach to us about the treatment of civilians.” (Human Rights Watch estimated the number of civilians killed in the NATO bombing to be five hundred; the Yugoslav government put the number between twelve hundred and five thousand.)

Cheney’s office supported the Israeli plan, as did Elliott Abrams, a deputy national-security adviser, according to several former and current officials. (A spokesman for the N.S.C. denied that Abrams had done so.) They believed that Israel should move quickly in its air war against Hezbollah. A former intelligence officer said, “We told Israel, ‘Look, if you guys have to go, we’re behind you all the way. But we think it should be sooner rather than later—the longer you wait, the less time we have to evaluate and plan for Iran before Bush gets out of office.’ ”

Cheney’s point, the former senior intelligence official said, was “What if the Israelis execute their part of this first, and it’s really successful? It’d be great. We can learn what to do in Iran by watching what the Israelis do in Lebanon.”

The Pentagon consultant told me that intelligence about Hezbollah and Iran is being mishandled by the White House the same way intelligence had been when, in 2002 and early 2003, the Administration was making the case that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. “The big complaint now in the intelligence community is that all of the important stuff is being sent directly to the top—at the insistence of the White House—and not being analyzed at all, or scarcely,” he said. “It’s an awful policy and violates all of the N.S.A.’s strictures, and if you complain about it you’re out,” he said. “Cheney had a strong hand in this.”

The long-term Administration goal was to help set up a Sunni Arab coalition—including countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt—that would join the United States and Europe to pressure the ruling Shiite mullahs in Iran. “But the thought behind that plan was that Israel would defeat Hezbollah, not lose to it,” the consultant with close ties to Israel said. Some officials in Cheney’s office and at the N.S.C. had become convinced, on the basis of private talks, that those nations would moderate their public criticism of Israel and blame Hezbollah for creating the crisis that led to war. Although they did so at first, they shifted their position in the wake of public protests in their countries about the Israeli bombing. The White House was clearly disappointed when, late last month, Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister, came to Washington and, at a meeting with Bush, called for the President to intervene immediately to end the war. The Washington Post reported that Washington had hoped to enlist moderate Arab states “in an effort to pressure Syria and Iran to rein in Hezbollah, but the Saudi move . . . seemed to cloud that initiative.”

The surprising strength of Hezbollah’s resistance, and its continuing ability to fire rockets into northern Israel in the face of the constant Israeli bombing, the Middle East expert told me, “is a massive setback for those in the White House who want to use force in Iran. And those who argue that the bombing will create internal dissent and revolt in Iran are also set back.”

Nonetheless, some officers serving with the Joint Chiefs of Staff remain deeply concerned that the Administration will have a far more positive assessment of the air campaign than they should, the former senior intelligence official said. “There is no way that Rumsfeld and Cheney will draw the right conclusion about this,” he said. “When the smoke clears, they’ll say it was a success, and they’ll draw reinforcement for their plan to attack Iran.”

In the White House, especially in the Vice-President’s office, many officials believe that the military campaign against Hezbollah is working and should be carried forward. At the same time, the government consultant said, some policymakers in the Administration have concluded that the cost of the bombing to Lebanese society is too high. “They are telling Israel that it’s time to wind down the attacks on infrastructure.”

Similar divisions are emerging in Israel. David Siegel, the Israeli spokesman, said that his country’s leadership believed, as of early August, that the air war had been successful, and had destroyed more than seventy per cent of Hezbollah’s medium- and long-range-missile launching capacity. “The problem is short-range missiles, without launchers, that can be shot from civilian areas and homes,” Siegel told me. “The only way to resolve this is ground operations—which is why Israel would be forced to expand ground operations if the latest round of diplomacy doesn’t work.” Last week, however, there was evidence that the Israeli government was troubled by the progress of the war. In an unusual move, Major General Moshe Kaplinsky, Halutz’s deputy, was put in charge of the operation, supplanting Major General Udi Adam. The worry in Israel is that Nasrallah might escalate the crisis by firing missiles at Tel Aviv. “There is a big debate over how much damage Israel should inflict to prevent it,” the consultant said. “If Nasrallah hits Tel Aviv, what should Israel do? Its goal is to deter more attacks by telling Nasrallah that it will destroy his country if he doesn’t stop, and to remind the Arab world that Israel can set it back twenty years. We’re no longer playing by the same rules.”

A European intelligence officer told me, “The Israelis have been caught in a psychological trap. In earlier years, they had the belief that they could solve their problems with toughness. But now, with Islamic martyrdom, things have changed, and they need different answers. How do you scare people who love martyrdom?” The problem with trying to eliminate Hezbollah, the intelligence officer said, is the group’s ties to the Shiite population in southern Lebanon, the Bekaa Valley, and Beirut’s southern suburbs, where it operates schools, hospitals, a radio station, and various charities.

A high-level American military planner told me, “We have a lot of vulnerability in the region, and we’ve talked about some of the effects of an Iranian or Hezbollah attack on the Saudi regime and on the oil infrastructure.” There is special concern inside the Pentagon, he added, about the oil-producing nations north of the Strait of Hormuz. “We have to anticipate the unintended consequences,” he told me. “Will we be able to absorb a barrel of oil at one hundred dollars? There is this almost comical thinking that you can do it all from the air, even when you’re up against an irregular enemy with a dug-in capability. You’re not going to be successful unless you have a ground presence, but the political leadership never considers the worst case. These guys only want to hear the best case.”

There is evidence that the Iranians were expecting the war against Hezbollah. Vali Nasr, an expert on Shiite Muslims and Iran, who is a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and also teaches at the Naval Postgraduate School, in Monterey, California, said, “Every negative American move against Hezbollah was seen by Iran as part of a larger campaign against it. And Iran began to prepare for the showdown by supplying more sophisticated weapons to Hezbollah—anti-ship and anti-tank missiles—and training its fighters in their use. And now Hezbollah is testing Iran’s new weapons. Iran sees the Bush Administration as trying to marginalize its regional role, so it fomented trouble.”

Nasr, an Iranian-American who recently published a study of the Sunni-Shiite divide, entitled “The Shia Revival,” also said that the Iranian leadership believes that Washington’s ultimate political goal is to get some international force to act as a buffer—to physically separate Syria and Lebanon in an effort to isolate and disarm Hezbollah, whose main supply route is through Syria. “Military action cannot bring about the desired political result,” Nasr said. The popularity of Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a virulent critic of Israel, is greatest in his own country. If the U.S. were to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities, Nasr said, “you may end up turning Ahmadinejad into another Nasrallah—the rock star of the Arab street.”

Donald Rumsfeld, who is one of the Bush Administration’s most outspoken, and powerful, officials, has said very little publicly about the crisis in Lebanon. His relative quiet, compared to his aggressive visibility in the run-up to the Iraq war, has prompted a debate in Washington about where he stands on the issue.

Some current and former intelligence officials who were interviewed for this article believe that Rumsfeld disagrees with Bush and Cheney about the American role in the war between Israel and Hezbollah. The U.S. government consultant with close ties to Israel said that “there was a feeling that Rumsfeld was jaded in his approach to the Israeli war.” He added, “Air power and the use of a few Special Forces had worked in Afghanistan, and he tried to do it again in Iraq. It was the same idea, but it didn’t work. He thought that Hezbollah was too dug in and the Israeli attack plan would not work, and the last thing he wanted was another war on his shift that would put the American forces in Iraq in greater jeopardy.”

A Western diplomat said that he understood that Rumsfeld did not know all the intricacies of the war plan. “He is angry and worried about his troops” in Iraq, the diplomat said. Rumsfeld served in the White House during the last year of the war in Vietnam, from which American troops withdrew in 1975, “and he did not want to see something like this having an impact in Iraq.” Rumsfeld’s concern, the diplomat added, was that an expansion of the war into Iran could put the American troops in Iraq at greater risk of attacks by pro-Iranian Shiite militias.

At a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on August 3rd, Rumsfeld was less than enthusiastic about the war’s implications for the American troops in Iraq. Asked whether the Administration was mindful of the war’s impact on Iraq, he testified that, in his meetings with Bush and Condoleezza Rice, “there is a sensitivity to the desire to not have our country or our interests or our forces put at greater risk as a result of what’s taking place between Israel and Hezbollah. . . . There are a variety of risks that we face in that region, and it’s a difficult and delicate situation.”

The Pentagon consultant dismissed talk of a split at the top of the Administration, however, and said simply, “Rummy is on the team. He’d love to see Hezbollah degraded, but he also is a voice for less bombing and more innovative Israeli ground operations.” The former senior intelligence official similarly depicted Rumsfeld as being “delighted that Israel is our stalking horse.”

There are also questions about the status of Condoleezza Rice. Her initial support for the Israeli air war against Hezbollah has reportedly been tempered by dismay at the effects of the attacks on Lebanon. The Pentagon consultant said that in early August she began privately “agitating” inside the Administration for permission to begin direct diplomatic talks with Syria—so far, without much success. Last week, the Times reported that Rice had directed an Embassy official in Damascus to meet with the Syrian foreign minister, though the meeting apparently yielded no results. The Times also reported that Rice viewed herself as “trying to be not only a peacemaker abroad but also a mediator among contending parties” within the Administration. The article pointed to a divide between career diplomats in the State Department and “conservatives in the government,” including Cheney and Abrams, “who were pushing for strong American support for Israel.”

The Western diplomat told me his embassy believes that Abrams has emerged as a key policymaker on Iran, and on the current Hezbollah-Israeli crisis, and that Rice’s role has been relatively diminished. Rice did not want to make her most recent diplomatic trip to the Middle East, the diplomat said. “She only wanted to go if she thought there was a real chance to get a ceasefire.”

Bush’s strongest supporter in Europe continues to be British Prime Minister Tony Blair, but many in Blair’s own Foreign Office, as a former diplomat said, believe that he has “gone out on a particular limb on this”—especially by accepting Bush’s refusal to seek an immediate and total ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah. “Blair stands alone on this,” the former diplomat said. “He knows he’s a lame duck who’s on the way out, but he buys it”—the Bush policy. “He drinks the White House Kool-Aid as much as anybody in Washington.” The crisis will really start at the end of August, the diplomat added, “when the Iranians”—under a United Nations deadline to stop uranium enrichment—“will say no.”

Even those who continue to support Israel’s war against Hezbollah agree that it is failing to achieve one of its main goals—to rally the Lebanese against Hezbollah. “Strategic bombing has been a failed military concept for ninety years, and yet air forces all over the world keep on doing it,” John Arquilla, a defense analyst at the Naval Postgraduate School, told me. Arquilla has been campaigning for more than a decade, with growing success, to change the way America fights terrorism. “The warfare of today is not mass on mass,” he said. “You have to hunt like a network to defeat a network. Israel focussed on bombing against Hezbollah, and, when that did not work, it became more aggressive on the ground. The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.”

  

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AquamansWrath
Member since Apr 12th 2005
8480 posts
Tue Aug-22-06 12:51 PM

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203. "Thank you for this... wonderful article..."
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

Anyone who doesn't see the CIA in this is crazy...
here's one way they should know... Bush's undying loyalty to the foolishness of a war being started over two kidnapped soldiers... it's so obvious... it's insulting.

You see this is why when people on these boards say what they say... it doesn't bother me one bit... white people live in a fake world where they are the hero, they are god, they are 'discoverers', they are Santa Claus, they are angels, they are the prophets, they are the leading man, they are the winners, they are always justified...
that's a fake reality... a matrix of sorts... I live in the real reality... and I deal with it and study it purely from that angle and that angle alone

AllHiphop.com
3121.com
Wardolphin.com
Afropunk.com
Bling47.com
Fader.com



Who's fucking wit B More right now?

"Freedom is a Lie" - the animals

  

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TheDogtor
Member since Feb 27th 2006
9068 posts
Wed Aug-23-06 08:07 AM

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206. "sig worthy"
In response to Reply # 203


  

          

>I live in the
>real reality... and I deal with it and study it purely from
>that angle and that angle alone


EL o fucking EL, hahaha, funny as shit
the craziest conspiracy theorist on this board saying he lives in reality, damn your crazy and lost, goddamn so crazy and lost.

"over 2 kidnapped soldiers"

I guess If you were the commander on the army that had 2 soldiers kidnaped by a enemy you would go "pffff, im not gonna start a war for this...pfff...fuck that!"

hehehe

Seek proffesional help.
Maybe lay off the internet for a week, see how you cope with that.
Probably will start hearing whispers in the wind,loon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
heh is mine.

  

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