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Subject: "racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University" Previous topic | Next topic
Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
2361 posts
Tue Mar-28-06 09:50 PM

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"racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"


  

          

Duke Lacrosse Rape Claim Spurs Outrage

March 26, 2006 — Following accusations that several Duke University lacrosse team members raped a dancer, a group of concerned Durham, N.C., residents staged a "wake-up call" today against sexual assault.

Standing in front of the house where the alleged assault occurred, the group beat and banged on pots and pans early this morning to protest the attack.

Last week, DNA samples were taken from 46 members of thelacrosse team. Investigators are trying to identify at least three men suspected of raping and beating the woman, who was hired to dance at a party.

"We're not saying that all 46 were involved," Durham Police Cpl. David Addison said recently. "But we do know that some of the players inside that house on that evening knew what transpired and we need them to come forward."

So far, no charges have been filed against any of the players. The team, which is currently ranked No. 2 and has been considered a favorite to win this year's national championship, forfeited two games — one yesterday and one that would have been played on this coming Tuesday — because of the allegations.

'Totally Deplorable'

"If what is alleged is in fact true, it's totally deplorable," Duke spokesman John Burness told ABC station WTVD-TV in Duhram this past week. "That is not what this institution stands for nor do we believe it's what our students stand for."

According to a search warrant, the victim and another woman went to a university-owned house on March 13, where three members of the team live. When the men became aggressive, the women left but another player apologized and convinced them to return.

The women returned to the house, but were separated. The victim alleges she was forced into a bathroom and assaulted. The men also allegedly yelled racial slurs at the women.

The victim, who is black, later contacted police from a grocery store and reported the attack.

"That brutal assault, that brutal rape that occurred within that house, cannot be explained by anyone," Addison said.

Duke Provost Peter Lang seemed unwilling to speculate on the allegations.

"Do I know that those crimes happened in a way that would allow me to take a position on that? No," he said. "That's why we have the police. That's why the police have the means to undertake steps to investigate the crime that Duke could never have."

ABC News affiliate WTVD-TV in Durham, N.C., contributed to this report.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ESPNSports/story?id=1770656&page=2


This is just a testament to how much power universities give to their athletes. The fact that these white boys feel so priviledged and above the law that they think they can rape a woman is a wake up call to all universities. Statistics show that athletes are involved in the majority of date rapes that occur on college campuses and yet these universities continually turn a blind eye and won't even investigate the incident.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
And you know they had the keggers and what not too.
Mar 28th 2006
1
RE: And you know they had the keggers and what not too.
Mar 29th 2006
2
RE: And you know they had the keggers and what not too.
Mar 29th 2006
6
our rape laws don't make gender distinctions
Mar 29th 2006
12
      Interesting, ours do:
Mar 29th 2006
13
the penalty is DEATH
Mar 30th 2006
26
RE: And you know they had the keggers and what not too.
Mar 30th 2006
24
why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?
Mar 29th 2006
3
???
Mar 29th 2006
4
read again. it was reported that:
Mar 29th 2006
5
RE: why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?
Mar 29th 2006
7
The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches
Mar 29th 2006
8
RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches
Mar 30th 2006
27
RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches
Mar 30th 2006
29
for one white kids get off on drug charges much more than black kids
Apr 03rd 2006
49
RE: for one white kids get off on drug charges much more than black kids
Apr 03rd 2006
55
RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches
Apr 03rd 2006
54
RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches
Apr 03rd 2006
53
oh really, brothers dont rape?
Mar 30th 2006
32
i suggest you seriously READ about this story
Mar 30th 2006
36
you are focusing on the wrong thing & acting like a fool
Mar 31st 2006
38
RE: you are focusing on the wrong thing & acting like a fool
Mar 31st 2006
43
RE: you are focusing on the wrong thing & acting like a fool
Apr 03rd 2006
59
      yes, i think making this about race is not to care about rape
Apr 07th 2006
97
RE: i suggest you seriously READ about this story
Apr 03rd 2006
58
RE: oh really, brothers dont rape?
Apr 01st 2006
47
RE: oh really, brothers dont rape?
Apr 03rd 2006
56
RE: oh really, brothers dont rape?
Apr 03rd 2006
57
RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches
Apr 03rd 2006
52
focus on the SEXISM and sexual assault before we yell racism
Mar 30th 2006
35
      The paralysis of analysis
Mar 31st 2006
37
      quite the opposite
Mar 31st 2006
40
           you can't come to okayplayer and suggest
Apr 03rd 2006
66
           exactly
Apr 04th 2006
77
           if you have studied these (suppossedly)
Apr 06th 2006
85
           The irony.... is that folks here just make things worse
Apr 09th 2006
119
                i whole-heartedly agree
Apr 10th 2006
165
           Good Intentions but....
Apr 10th 2006
171
      Because of the legacy of America
Mar 31st 2006
41
RE: why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?
Mar 29th 2006
9
This
Mar 29th 2006
10
      Lol, too true
Mar 29th 2006
11
           racial slurs prior to the rape (it is still about rape, tho)
Mar 31st 2006
42
                Relax man, I'm on your side.
Apr 01st 2006
48
                agreed (sorry, i even have a mod attacking me so im touchy)
Apr 09th 2006
120
                RE: racial slurs prior to the rape (it is still about rape, tho)
Apr 03rd 2006
60
                i agree wit that
Apr 06th 2006
87
www.blacks on whites.com
Mar 29th 2006
14
^^Internet troll^^
Mar 29th 2006
20
if it was an case of assault&battery would you call it non-racist??
Mar 29th 2006
16
RE: if it was an case of assault&battery would you call it non-racist??
Mar 30th 2006
34
CLEARLY - this needs explaination
Mar 29th 2006
19
RE: why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?
Mar 30th 2006
25
This sounds like some shit straight off of
Mar 31st 2006
39
actually that is a common misconcetion and myth
Apr 06th 2006
86
we must directly confront issues of rape/sexual assault
Apr 09th 2006
125
^ Saw King Kong 10 Xs ^
Apr 09th 2006
115
there are already two posts on the subject
Mar 29th 2006
15
If the racial tables were turned.....
Mar 29th 2006
17
Before jumping to conclusions
Mar 29th 2006
18
you did NOT just equate OJ to the Scottsboro boys and Emmitt Till...
Apr 03rd 2006
50
But that's my point
Apr 03rd 2006
67
      huh?
Apr 03rd 2006
68
           RE: huh?
Apr 03rd 2006
70
                RE: huh?
Apr 05th 2006
83
                     Not intended to be a post jack, but
Apr 10th 2006
162
wrong
Apr 03rd 2006
64
before it gets too stupid in here, you guys need to read
Mar 29th 2006
21
RE: before it gets too stupid in here, you guys need to read
Mar 29th 2006
23
Say it is so
Mar 29th 2006
22
I'll play devils advocate
Mar 30th 2006
28
not national coverage, no
Mar 30th 2006
33
      exactly
Apr 03rd 2006
65
motherfuckin surprise
Mar 30th 2006
30
and add in that these crackas robbed her
Mar 30th 2006
31
the cops basically shrugged off my yt friend when she was raped
Apr 03rd 2006
63
      i swear people arent hearing you man.
Apr 04th 2006
74
      fuck you
Apr 06th 2006
90
           fuck you too.
Apr 10th 2006
161
                i gives a fuck what else you had on that website
Apr 10th 2006
166
                     please shut up and die.
Apr 10th 2006
172
      RE: the cops basically shrugged off my yt friend when she was raped
Apr 04th 2006
82
      that's because they are women
Apr 06th 2006
89
           what the?? are you trying to make my brain explode??
Apr 06th 2006
92
                dog i am making a general statment,
Apr 07th 2006
98
                     i'm not saying racism isn't a real factor in todays society. i'm saying
Apr 07th 2006
99
                          DOG YOU NEED TO LISTEN
Apr 07th 2006
101
                               number 1, you said
Apr 07th 2006
103
                                    it's like this family
Apr 08th 2006
108
                                         RE: it's like this family
Apr 08th 2006
110
                                         once again
Apr 09th 2006
123
                                              huh
Apr 10th 2006
167
                                                   your point is? your facts are?
Apr 11th 2006
176
                                                        never said that fam
Apr 11th 2006
189
good article on espn
Mar 31st 2006
44
If you a Stripper, than you should know that could be part of the game
Mar 31st 2006
45
you're the dumbest person behind a keyboard right now.
Apr 03rd 2006
69
why would would you even say that
Apr 06th 2006
91
RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 01st 2006
46
sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.
Apr 03rd 2006
51
RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 03rd 2006
61
RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 03rd 2006
71
RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 04th 2006
81
RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 04th 2006
73
      then i guess he wasn't too bright either.
Apr 04th 2006
78
so u're saying black men are homos? wow
Apr 03rd 2006
62
YOU shoulda been a blowjob.
Apr 04th 2006
75
RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 04th 2006
80
      RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 06th 2006
94
RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University
Apr 03rd 2006
72
If this was a black basketball team accused of raping a cracker
Apr 04th 2006
76
Limbaugh called alleged Duke rape victim a "ho"
Apr 04th 2006
79
RE: Limbaugh called alleged Duke rape victim a "ho"
Apr 05th 2006
84
oh shit.....
Apr 06th 2006
88
Even Rush is right every once in a while huh
Apr 17th 2007
206
I've been living under a rock for the last week....
Apr 06th 2006
93
UPDATE: Duke player suspended for lewd email
Apr 06th 2006
95
After this thread, I will have a harder time taking Tsetse seriously
Apr 06th 2006
96
that sounds pretty unreasonable to me
Apr 07th 2006
100
and you just dont want to admit that racism plays a factor
Apr 07th 2006
102
i never said these guys weren't racist or that race didn't play a factor
Apr 07th 2006
104
RE: i never said these guys weren't racist or that race didn't play a fa...
Apr 08th 2006
109
      He's playin himself and he needs to stop
Apr 08th 2006
111
      nah, you are the one playing yourself/authority and need to stop
Apr 09th 2006
116
           You can't be serious
Apr 09th 2006
126
                RE: You can't be serious
Apr 09th 2006
138
                     Assuming you know what a straw man argument is
Apr 09th 2006
141
                          spare me... (let's review your petty, inflamatory post)
Apr 10th 2006
153
      do you 2 understand the concept of CONTEXT? look here:
Apr 09th 2006
112
           the racism comes in the fact that
Apr 10th 2006
168
                Have they released the names of the boys charged?
Apr 10th 2006
169
                nobody has been charged yet
Apr 11th 2006
194
                i dont disagree on this
Apr 11th 2006
185
all you have are strawman arguments and personal attacks, bro
Apr 09th 2006
121
RE: that sounds pretty unreasonable to me
Apr 07th 2006
105
and once again: WHEN did i EVER declare ''no racism'' ?
Apr 08th 2006
106
I said "if"
Apr 08th 2006
107
      its obvious you were assuming with this sentence
Apr 09th 2006
113
           again, agreed 100% (you said it better than i did)
Apr 09th 2006
124
           RE: its obvious you were assuming with this sentence
Apr 09th 2006
127
                again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou
Apr 09th 2006
130
                     RE: again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou
Apr 09th 2006
134
                          RE: again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou
Apr 09th 2006
140
                               RE: again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou
Apr 09th 2006
143
                                    more higher-than-thou posturing
Apr 09th 2006
145
                                    RE: more higher-than-thou posturing
Apr 09th 2006
147
                                         more strawmen argument
Apr 10th 2006
157
                                    word
Apr 10th 2006
170
you dont even understand the issues
Apr 09th 2006
122
      You asked why they're racist
Apr 09th 2006
129
           and you missed the point and then got inflamatory
Apr 09th 2006
131
                RE: and you missed the point and then got inflamatory
Apr 09th 2006
135
                     RE: and you missed the point and then got inflamatory
Apr 09th 2006
137
                          RE: and you missed the point and then got inflamatory
Apr 09th 2006
148
                               i stand by my claims... and my self-defense against BS
Apr 10th 2006
156
                                    RE: i stand by my claims... and my self-defense against BS
Apr 10th 2006
158
                                         RE: i stand by my claims... and my self-defense against BS
Apr 10th 2006
159
exactly, then he personally attacks me as a moderator... amazing
Apr 09th 2006
117
i see how it is... attack people instead of using reason
Apr 09th 2006
114
RE: i see how it is... attack people instead of using reason
Apr 09th 2006
132
      here are some rape stats for you
Apr 09th 2006
149
           You already got your apology from me (maybe you forgot)
Apr 10th 2006
151
                apology not accepted, sorry
Apr 10th 2006
155
Co-Sign
Apr 09th 2006
118
meanwhile... authorities and duke do nothing
Apr 09th 2006
128
Remain concerned with the sexual assault
Apr 09th 2006
133
nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again
Apr 09th 2006
136
      RE: nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again
Apr 09th 2006
139
           RE: nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again
Apr 09th 2006
142
                RE: nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again
Apr 09th 2006
146
                     you assume your own false conclusions. some facts.
Apr 09th 2006
150
                          RE: you assume your own false conclusions. some facts.
Apr 10th 2006
152
                               RE: you assume your own false conclusions. some facts.
Apr 10th 2006
154
factual corrections and new claims
Apr 09th 2006
144
and the rape stats (on their own)
Apr 10th 2006
160
      first of all
Apr 11th 2006
190
           you are so wrong and missing the point
Apr 11th 2006
193
now they are bringing evidence to the media instead of the cops
Apr 10th 2006
163
Trial by media is not a good idea
Apr 10th 2006
164
anyway, it seems like the WERE most likely racist after all
Apr 10th 2006
173
RE: anyway, it seems like the WERE most likely racist after all
Apr 11th 2006
174
      "the DNA evidence" - aww crap
Apr 11th 2006
175
           Tsetse
Apr 11th 2006
177
           and i said that? i dont think so
Apr 11th 2006
180
           oh wow, i wasn't aware of point 5
Apr 11th 2006
178
                i may be wrong, but i think the hospital was clear: this was brutal rape
Apr 11th 2006
182
No DNA match for Lacross Players
Apr 11th 2006
179
Shame on you Sunngodd
Apr 11th 2006
181
a fair point, but...
Apr 11th 2006
183
I was about to ask...
Apr 11th 2006
184
      Some facts i've found - police reports & details
Apr 11th 2006
187
doesn't mean she wasn't raped
Apr 11th 2006
186
      RE: doesn't mean she wasn't raped
Apr 11th 2006
188
           RE: doesn't mean she wasn't raped
Apr 11th 2006
191
they found no DNA period - the issue is NOT about no matches
Apr 11th 2006
192
      wow, that makes her case look real suspect
Apr 11th 2006
196
Good idea and bad ideas - 3points
Apr 11th 2006
195
2 indictments (well i'll be damned)
Apr 18th 2006
197
Not to defend these guys at all, cuz I think they're assholes, but...
Apr 19th 2006
198
      agreed, i think convinctions are unlikely, but...
Apr 19th 2006
199
      RE: Not to defend these guys at all, cuz I think they're assholes, but.....
Apr 19th 2006
200
      RE: Not to defend these guys at all, cuz I think they're assholes, but.....
Apr 19th 2006
201
           HA!
Apr 19th 2006
202
out of interest...
Apr 19th 2006
203
L.
Apr 17th 2007
204
haha!
Apr 17th 2007
205
Really, did they even find her attractive at all??
Apr 18th 2007
207

TheBrownieKing
Member since Jun 02nd 2005
87 posts
Tue Mar-28-06 10:43 PM

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1. "And you know they had the keggers and what not too."
In response to Reply # 0


          

But,
They mommies and daddies getting them all
some good lawyers as we speak.

Yeah, they all gonna be just fine yo.
They'll get good jobs, marry and have kids,
and they little "indiscredition" will be a faint
memory.

That's my initial feeling, but if justice should occur
I'd try to be happy I guess.
Peace.

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
3216 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 12:21 AM

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2. "RE: And you know they had the keggers and what not too."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

i agree w/ you. their money is too strong for a "dancer" to affect them legally.

but, and i say this with the utmost conviction, there is only 1 punishment fit for a rapist. man or woman for that matter.

Design:
http://www.behance.net/MichaelYoung

Illustration:
http://ein05.deviantart.com/

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 04:00 AM

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6. "RE: And you know they had the keggers and what not too."
In response to Reply # 2


          

>but, and i say this with the utmost conviction, there is only
>1 punishment fit for a rapist. man or woman for that matter.

Can a woman be guilty of rape in the US?

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
8324 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 09:03 AM

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12. "our rape laws don't make gender distinctions"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 09:57 AM

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13. "Interesting, ours do:"
In response to Reply # 12


          

s 1 Sexual Offences Act 2003

1 Rape
(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

  

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TheBrownieKing
Member since Jun 02nd 2005
87 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 02:51 AM

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26. "the penalty is DEATH"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Mar-30-06 03:00 AM by TheBrownieKing

          

Was that what you was getting at too?

If I ruled the world.

Specially with dudes. and
SPECIALLY with child molesters.
heard bout this live web cam ish they was doing
recently with the little babies?

death penalty.

these dudes who gang raped this sister
They think they can get away with it.
Make it punishible by death.
Then at least they'd could maybe feel some
real heat before the white judge let them go
with a stern public induced scolding.

you prolly didn't even mean that though.

  

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English_3
Member since Feb 03rd 2006
62 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 12:18 AM

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24. "RE: And you know they had the keggers and what not too."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          


Justice...? Naw... Like you said, Their peoples are gonna make sure they are str8

That has never happened to me before...

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 01:38 AM

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3. "why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Mar-29-06 01:41 AM by Tsetse

  

          

I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping white girls all the god damned time... are they racist?

Let's not confuse issues.

Rape is evil and must be faced. I didnt see anything in this about racism besides the fact that it apparently was several white guys raping a black girl.

Let's focus on the issue of rape... before we start rallying protests about the racial aspect, ok?

It isnt about priviledged white boys acting like racists... this is about asshole men being assholes... and last time i checked we had issues on this matter across all racial boundaries.

So... dont confuse the issues... please, dont... not with RAPE. Focusing on the race aspect of this is really not constructive unless they were explicitly doign this as a racially motivated hate crime (and i dont see evidence of that). Obviously the fact that she is black and getting raped by white guys involves matters of race... but for god's sake what really needs to be the focus is that this poor girl got raped... not the damn color of her skin.

  

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Whateva
Member since Jul 07th 2003
4637 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 02:05 AM

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4. "???"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

"I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping white
>girls all the god damned time..."

???

***************************************
"Science" and Religion are the two most dangerous weapons of ideology. See holocaust.

Why do "scientists" constantly produce statistics based on "race", a social construct?

  

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rawsouthpaw
Charter member
14265 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 02:05 AM

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5. "read again. it was reported that:"
In response to Reply # 3


          

"The men also allegedly yelled racial slurs at the women."



----------------------------
Some of my photos from Cuba:
www.flickr.com/photos/workshopvisuals/sets/729092/

www.printroom.com/pro/workshop

www.myspace.com/rawsouthpaw

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
3216 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 06:03 AM

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7. "RE: why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping white
>girls all the god damned time... are they racist?

Can we get some statistics in here? b/c i've been to many colleges and have many friends at different universities. never heard of black males RAPING white women. but hey...you never know. in all the cases i've seen involving white women w/ black males is overly consentual from the white female's side either drunk or sober.

>Let's not confuse issues.
>
>Rape is evil and must be faced. I didnt see anything in this
>about racism besides the fact that it apparently was several
>white guys raping a black girl.
>
>Let's focus on the issue of rape... before we start rallying
>protests about the racial aspect, ok?

re-read the post. there were claims of racial slurs throughout the incident and i also said that "RAPE" has ONLY one fit punishment. i didn't say "RACIALLY MOTIVATED RAPE" has ONLY one fit punishment. so no one is acknowledging only the fact that she is african. the post mention RACE AND RAPE.

>It isnt about priviledged white boys acting like racists...
>this is about asshole men being assholes... and last time i
>checked we had issues on this matter across all racial
>boundaries.

only stating this so you're not confused in anyway that this is an excuse for us to "gang" up on your over-priveledged colleages. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO DUKE? these are the children/grand children of ppl that used to say "we don't want to go to school with niggers!"

>So... dont confuse the issues... please, dont... not with
>RAPE. Focusing on the race aspect of this is really not
>constructive unless they were explicitly doign this as a
>racially motivated hate crime (and i dont see evidence of
>that). Obviously the fact that she is black and getting raped
>by white guys involves matters of race... but for god's sake
>what really needs to be the focus is that this poor girl got
>raped... not the damn color of her skin.

i can understand to a certain extent that w/ the title of this post that it may seem all about race but after READING the post (which i hope you have...completely) you should find that:

1) this is not about RACE only without caring that the sister was raped

2) this is a *swipe from ABC. so if you don't believe it's covered correctly...then your focus should be on how their coverage is not shining the light where it should be

3) this is a post in "OKAY ACTIVIST" not "OKAY 'RACE' ACTIVIST". so we are standing up against this whole situation which regards a) rape, b) race & c) the way "over-priviledged" america goes too far all the time due to mommy/daddy's social status

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Wed Mar-29-06 07:09 AM

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8. "The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches"
In response to Reply # 7
Wed Mar-29-06 07:12 AM by moot_point

          

but I'm afraid yours is the worst thus far.

>>I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping
>white
>>girls all the god damned time... are they racist?
>
>Can we get some statistics in here? b/c i've been to many
>colleges and have many friends at different universities.
>never heard of black males RAPING white women. but hey...you
>never know. in all the cases i've seen involving white women
>w/ black males is overly consentual from the white female's
>side either drunk or sober.

I accept that the comment to which you have responded (in respect of brothers raping white women) is awful, but your response is just as bad in places. You were partially correct in asking for statistics (although I'm struggling to understand the value of any such study) but your comment thereafter is abitrary and cliched. You are basically re-inforcing the fallacious notion that white women love black cock (what does 'overly consensual' mean?!), and on this basis implicitly want to dismiss the idea that a white women could possibly be raped by a black man. Do you realise how juvenile this reasoning seems?

>>Let's not confuse issues.
>>
>>Rape is evil and must be faced. I didnt see anything in
>this
>>about racism besides the fact that it apparently was several
>>white guys raping a black girl.
>>
>>Let's focus on the issue of rape... before we start rallying
>>protests about the racial aspect, ok?
>
>re-read the post. there were claims of racial slurs throughout
>the incident and i also said that "RAPE" has ONLY one fit
>punishment. i didn't say "RACIALLY MOTIVATED RAPE" has ONLY
>one fit punishment. so no one is acknowledging only the fact
>that she is african. the post mention RACE AND RAPE.
>
>>It isnt about priviledged white boys acting like racists...
>>this is about asshole men being assholes... and last time i
>>checked we had issues on this matter across all racial
>>boundaries.
>
>only stating this so you're not confused in anyway that this
>is an excuse for us to "gang" up on your over-priveledged
>colleages.

When did this become an 'us vs you' discussion? This is a rhetorical sleight of hand.

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO DUKE? these are the
>children/grand children of ppl that used to say "we don't want
>to go to school with niggers!"

Again this is abitrary and cliched. It reads like you have already decided these boys are guilty - at least of racism - by virtue of their alleged racist grandparents.

>>So... dont confuse the issues... please, dont... not with
>>RAPE. Focusing on the race aspect of this is really not
>>constructive unless they were explicitly doign this as a
>>racially motivated hate crime (and i dont see evidence of
>>that). Obviously the fact that she is black and getting
>raped
>>by white guys involves matters of race... but for god's sake
>>what really needs to be the focus is that this poor girl got
>>raped... not the damn color of her skin.
>
>i can understand to a certain extent that w/ the title of this
>post that it may seem all about race but after READING the
>post (which i hope you have...completely) you should find
>that:
>
>1) this is not about RACE only without caring that the sister
>was raped

Personally, I believe we should care about ALL victims of rape.

>2) this is a *swipe from ABC. so if you don't believe it's
>covered correctly...then your focus should be on how their
>coverage is not shining the light where it should be
>
>3) this is a post in "OKAY ACTIVIST" not "OKAY 'RACE'
>ACTIVIST". so we are standing up against this whole situation
>which regards a) rape, b) race & c) the way "over-priviledged"
>america goes too far all the time due to mommy/daddy's social
>status

I was with you until point c). Are you claiming there is a trend that privileged kids commit and get away with serious crimes across the US? Can you support this?

  

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discreet
Member since Oct 21st 2003
755 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 01:30 PM

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27. "RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Privileged kids do get away with shit. Of course there are no stats because that shit gets covered up.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Thu Mar-30-06 05:14 PM

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29. "RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches"
In response to Reply # 27


          

>Privileged kids do get away with shit. Of course there are no
>stats because that shit gets covered up.

How do you know it takes place then?

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Apr-03-06 12:20 AM

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49. "for one white kids get off on drug charges much more than black kids"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

the conviction rate on drug charges is much higher for blacks than it is for whites. I haven't seen the statistics on violent crimes but the drug conviction statistics show a pretty clear indication of bias in the judicial system.

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
3216 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 02:39 AM

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55. "RE: for one white kids get off on drug charges much more than black kids"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>the conviction rate on drug charges is much higher for blacks
>than it is for whites. I haven't seen the statistics on
>violent crimes but the drug conviction statistics show a
>pretty clear indication of bias in the judicial system.
>
>
thank you

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
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Mon Apr-03-06 02:39 AM

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54. "RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

you'll see a quick blurb in the news then nothing else is ever said

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
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Mon Apr-03-06 02:38 AM

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53. "RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>Privileged kids do get away with shit. Of course there are no
>stats because that shit gets covered up.

thanx. thought i was by myself on that one for a minute

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 11:03 PM

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32. "oh really, brothers dont rape?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

this isnt a stereotype.

i hate to break it to you... but we got a lot of brothers in america who rape women.

my point is... rape and sexual assault isnt about rich white boys, and to try to make any rape case like this into a story about race... is to not do justice to the basic reality of SEXISM.

this is a sexist, sexual assault situation and unless it was purely motivated by racism... trying to make this about racism is to do an injustice to women.

you can attack me, pretend only rich white boys rape... but im telling the truth.

  

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jahlove7
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Thu Mar-30-06 11:50 PM

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36. "i suggest you seriously READ about this story"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>this isnt a stereotype.

of course black men rape, but you're not putting this in the right context, are you?

>i hate to break it to you... but we got a lot of brothers in
>america who rape women.

no shit...did you brain this up on your own?

>my point is... rape and sexual assault isnt about rich white
>boys, and to try to make any rape case like this into a story
>about race... is to not do justice to the basic reality of
>SEXISM.

overall, you have a point. but in this case, you're clueless. the racial slurs from the duke lacrosse team came BEFORE the rape and sexual assault even happened, and even AFTER the fact, when they yelled slurs at two sistas just walking by.

>this is a sexist, sexual assault situation and unless it was
>purely motivated by racism... trying to make this about racism
>is to do an injustice to women.

oh no. this was motived by racism. these people KNEW who they were calling. and as soon as the two sistas arrived, the racial slurs were hurled at them, with one guy saying he wanted to jam a broom up one of those "nigger bitches cunts". i see you're really going out on a limb to defend white guys, but you really need to read on this one.

>you can attack me, pretend only rich white boys rape... but im
>telling the truth.

you're not telling the truth in this particular case. you're defending white guys that were already causing problems in that particular neighborhood to begin with. that sistas was beaten, raped, sodomized and ROBBED after the fact. and then when she was kicked out the house, more racial slurs were hurled her way, to the point where neighbors heard them. i can dig you're probably defending white guys because you're probably their negress, but your argument doesn't hold water in this particular case.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Fri Mar-31-06 12:57 PM

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38. "you are focusing on the wrong thing & acting like a fool"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>>this isnt a stereotype.
>
>of course black men rape, but you're not putting this in the
>right context, are you?
>
>>i hate to break it to you... but we got a lot of brothers in
>>america who rape women.
>
>no shit...did you brain this up on your own?
>
>>my point is... rape and sexual assault isnt about rich white
>>boys, and to try to make any rape case like this into a
>story
>>about race... is to not do justice to the basic reality of
>>SEXISM.
>
>overall, you have a point. but in this case, you're clueless.
> the racial slurs from the duke lacrosse team came BEFORE the
>rape and sexual assault even happened, and even AFTER the
>fact, when they yelled slurs at two sistas just walking by.

i didnt read that... and i'd ask for proof of this.

i dont mean to play devil's advocate as much as to say... yo... a girl got raped and i think the focus should be on the rape rather than trying to make this into racial thing.

how many black men yell racial slurs when they rape white women? is that then a RACIST incident?

My point... is that we need to squarely focus on the amount of SEXUAL ASSAULTS in this nation before we go off and pretend this case is primarily about whites being racist.

>>this is a sexist, sexual assault situation and unless it was
>>purely motivated by racism... trying to make this about
>racism
>>is to do an injustice to women.
>
>oh no. this was motived by racism. these people KNEW who they
>were calling. and as soon as the two sistas arrived, the
>racial slurs were hurled at them, with one guy saying he
>wanted to jam a broom up one of those "nigger bitches cunts".
>i see you're really going out on a limb to defend white guys,
>but you really need to read on this one.

i saw no evidence this was motivated by racism at all. i read the article. if you have more facts, provide them (frankly, given your flamign i wont just take your word on this)

i am not going out on a limb to defend white guys (and id punch your punk ass for suggesting that in RL), and you're petty personal attacks now show your true lack of objectivity.

i'd say you seem to be going out of the way to minimize the aspect of this which is just about MEN being total pricks... and that women are getting raped every day.

all i am saying is... let's stop and focus on the WOMAN before we get caught up in her skin color. you can call me names, say im defending white people and acting like a fool... but i stand by that girl and will continue to demand folks first stop and see this as a SEXUAL ASSAULT.

>>you can attack me, pretend only rich white boys rape... but
>im
>>telling the truth.
>
>you're not telling the truth in this particular case. you're
>defending white guys that were already causing problems in
>that particular neighborhood to begin with. that sistas was
>beaten, raped, sodomized and ROBBED after the fact. and then
>when she was kicked out the house, more racial slurs were
>hurled her way, to the point where neighbors heard them. i
>can dig you're probably defending white guys because you're
>probably their negress, but your argument doesn't hold water
>in this particular case.

Here you are... ready to attack a "negress" supporting a black woman... in a thread about a black woman being raped, right?

Again, your petty personal attacks suggesting im defending white boys is obnoxious. And again, before you go on acting like a fool on the internet calling me a negress... beware you might be talking to a 6'2 black man you wouldnt dare say that to the face of (the fact you need to make this personal flame says a lot about you).

All im saying is... i didnt see evidence this was MOTIVATED by race.

I am saying you need to squarely acknowlege the sexual assault and the wider sexism in america before running off to have a big focus on racism, however your flames and bias are clear (i doubt you even care about the rape aspect of this).

You keep saying there is evidence this was all racially motivated, that it was set in the context of racial motivation. That may be true (as i always suggested) but it was NOT indicated in this article.

And frankly, your petty flames and hyperbole dont lend your account much credit. I'm prepared to change my mind and consider this was in fact racially motivated, but not based on what ive read so far (and certainly not based on your pathetic rants & representations).

However... i will CONTINUE to say folks need to focus on sexism in cases like this... before they are so quick to scream about racism. This is about WOMEN BEING RAPED and i think we need to get better at acknowledging that by itself, whatever the contexts may be.

  

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jahlove7
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Fri Mar-31-06 01:46 PM

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43. "RE: you are focusing on the wrong thing & acting like a fool"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

>>overall, you have a point. but in this case, you're
>clueless.
>> the racial slurs from the duke lacrosse team came BEFORE
>the
>>rape and sexual assault even happened, and even AFTER the
>>fact, when they yelled slurs at two sistas just walking by.
>
>
>i didnt read that... and i'd ask for proof of this.

http://www.newsobserver.com
PLEASE READ!!

>i dont mean to play devil's advocate as much as to say...
>yo... a girl got raped and i think the focus should be on the
>rape rather than trying to make this into racial thing.

for the love of God...read...you're making statements like this by just reading what was posted. you've gotta do better than this if you're gonna defend your beloved white men.

>how many black men yell racial slurs when they rape white
>women? is that then a RACIST incident?

wtf? if they're going out of their way to rape white women, of course it's a racist act. as a matter of fact, if this particular situation was reversed, it would be called a hate crime.

>My point... is that we need to squarely focus on the amount of
>SEXUAL ASSAULTS in this nation before we go off and pretend
>this case is primarily about whites being racist.

understood. but this one involves racism as much as it does sexism.
>
>i saw no evidence this was motivated by racism at all. i read
>the article. if you have more facts, provide them (frankly,
>given your flamign i wont just take your word on this)

and what's your evidence exactly? look dude, girl, whatever...i live in this area. i think i know a bit more about this than you do. and all you have to do is watch tv and you'll see what i'm telling you if you don't feel like reading about it.

>i am not going out on a limb to defend white guys (and id
>punch your punk ass for suggesting that in RL), and you're
>petty personal attacks now show your true lack of
>objectivity.

and depending upon your sex, you'd get seriously bitch-smacked for it. and you are going out of your way to defend white guys. you haven't even gathered the facts yet you're up here on some "black guys rape too" bullshit. go read...today...

>i'd say you seem to be going out of the way to minimize the
>aspect of this which is just about MEN being total pricks...
>and that women are getting raped every day.

i'm not minimalizing, but you're damn sure generalizing. now all men are total pricks? how about the ones of white priviledge who believe they can get away with anything like the men's lacrosse team at duke?

>all i am saying is... let's stop and focus on the WOMAN before
>we get caught up in her skin color. you can call me names,
>say im defending white people and acting like a fool... but i
>stand by that girl and will continue to demand folks first
>stop and see this as a SEXUAL ASSAULT.

my heart goes out to that sista. she was what she had to do to take care of her child. she didn't ask to get raped. but if you're suggesting that this is just a simple sexual assault, again i urge you to read the story, because you obviously don't know the facts.
>
>Here you are... ready to attack a "negress" supporting a black
>woman... in a thread about a black woman being raped, right?

you're not supporting the woman as much as you're trying to exonerate the guys for making racial slurs befored the assault took place. by doing so, you're minimalizing the totality of the situation. part of that sista's pain is that they made it racial on top of the rape. you really need to read...really...

>Again, your petty personal attacks suggesting im defending
>white boys is obnoxious. And again, before you go on acting
>like a fool on the internet calling me a negress... beware you
>might be talking to a 6'2 black man you wouldnt dare say that
>to the face of (the fact you need to make this personal flame
>says a lot about you).

i could give a fuck if you were shaq. if he came out of his mouth with the bullshit you're spouting now, i'd check him...and rightfully so. the fact that you come up with with some "black men rape" bullshit in the face of a black woman being raped let's me know A LOT about you.

>All im saying is... i didnt see evidence this was MOTIVATED by
>race.

that's because you don't KNOW the evidence.

>I am saying you need to squarely acknowlege the sexual assault
>and the wider sexism in america before running off to have a
>big focus on racism, however your flames and bias are clear (i
>doubt you even care about the rape aspect of this).

sexism and racism in america are intertwined. if you can't see that, then, you're just blind.

>You keep saying there is evidence this was all racially
>motivated, that it was set in the context of racial
>motivation. That may be true (as i always suggested) but it
>was NOT indicated in this article.

this article? is this all that you've read? good grief...please learn more about this case before you even address me again.

>And frankly, your petty flames and hyperbole dont lend your
>account much credit. I'm prepared to change my mind and
>consider this was in fact racially motivated, but not based on
>what ive read so far (and certainly not based on your pathetic
>rants & representations).

yeah, yeah...*yada-yada* just go read...for pete's sake...stop yapping and read.

>However... i will CONTINUE to say folks need to focus on
>sexism in cases like this... before they are so quick to
>scream about racism. This is about WOMEN BEING RAPED and i
>think we need to get better at acknowledging that by itself,
>whatever the contexts may be.

you're a broken record right now. go read and if you feel the same way afterwards, then that's on you.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
3216 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 03:10 AM

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59. "RE: you are focusing on the wrong thing & acting like a fool"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          


>However... i will CONTINUE to say folks need to focus on
>sexism in cases like this... before they are so quick to
>scream about racism. This is about WOMEN BEING RAPED and i
>think we need to get better at acknowledging that by itself,
>whatever the contexts may be.


tsetse. from me to you. i ask, do you think that we do not care that she was raped? ofcourse we do. we definitely care. no one in here has neglected the fact that she was violated in any way/shape/form. but the posted article is not the only piece of news on this subject. it has been on TV like crazy here in richmond, va and online aswell. it was "RACIALLY MOTIVATED RAPE" so we are addressing both.

trust tsetse, i don't want ANY female to get raped (as i'm sure my brothers in here can agree). but if it was racially motivated then we have to talk about that too. if you see in my first post i say that any rapist(s) should have only 1 punishment and i'm sure i don't have to describe it. but again...it was racially motivated. so, we have to look at, where? what races involved? what age? what social status? things of that nature.

where: DUKE
what races: white males, black female
what ages: (no i do not have exacts but college) 18-24/25 (in that area)
what social status: now in this case, DUKE students. not only DUKE students but DUKE students that play on the University's team so not only is there a status held with DUKE U which is damned near a ivy league but then more status b/c these kids prob have scholarships, etc.

so now you have 1 group believing themselves above other groups whether financially, academically, athletically, etc that orders dancers for the night. add in a little alcohol on this priviledged/superior/spoiled complex that holds these gentlemen's minds and you've got some trouble.

now am i a pyschiatrist (prob spelled wrong) NO. but i'm sure you've been around these types before aswell. and first they are ASS HOLES yes. but the second you add a racial slur it becomes...RACIAL.

that's all we're saying yo. we not dismissing the sexual crime whatsoever.

peace

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Fri Apr-07-06 12:56 AM

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97. "yes, i think making this about race is not to care about rape"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          


>tsetse. from me to you. i ask, do you think that we do not
>care that she was raped?

Yes.

I think yall are so into screaming about the couple of racial slurs that you are completely minimizing and dodging the basic issue of RAPE... which is first and foremost a matter of sexism.

As far as i can tell, some asshat frat boy jocks chased went after this woman (stripper?) and raped her.

Again, if a bunch of black basketball players raped a white girl and a couple of them said some racial slurs... we wouldnt be seeing folks crying about racism. We'd be seeing people talking about niggers raping women.

Race is involved in this but focusing on it is to totally 100% undermine the need to fight sexism and sexual assault.

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
3216 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 02:52 AM

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58. "RE: i suggest you seriously READ about this story"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


dog. thanx on the real. cuz my friends and i as well have read up and watched this event and that was the reason for my responses...but you said it better

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Sat Apr-01-06 09:28 AM

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47. "RE: oh really, brothers dont rape?"
In response to Reply # 32


          

>this isnt a stereotype.

'Right now an old black ram is tupping your white ewe' Othello.

The cliche of black men being unable to control themselves around white women has been around for a long time.

>i hate to break it to you... but we got a lot of brothers in
>america who rape women.

I'm sure there are, but far fewer than those who aren't. My submission is that by even mentioning black men raping white women, you are inadvertently stirring up a hornet's nest and sending the argument in the very direction you wish to avoid.

>my point is... rape and sexual assault isnt about rich white
>boys, and to try to make any rape case like this into a story
>about race... is to not do justice to the basic reality of
>SEXISM.

Agreed, notwithstanding the above caveat.

>this is a sexist, sexual assault situation and unless it was
>purely motivated by racism... trying to make this about racism
>is to do an injustice to women.

I would go as far as saying that if the allegation is true and those boys shouted racial slurs whilst attacking her, it's still not conclusive evidence that the attack was racially motivated. But I suspect I'll have little support in that opinion.

>you can attack me, pretend only rich white boys rape... but im
>telling the truth.

I haven't attacked you. I leave that to the children around here

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
3216 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 02:42 AM

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56. "RE: oh really, brothers dont rape?"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

>this isnt a stereotype.
>
>i hate to break it to you... but we got a lot of brothers in
>america who rape women.
>
>my point is... rape and sexual assault isnt about rich white
>boys, and to try to make any rape case like this into a story
>about race... is to not do justice to the basic reality of
>SEXISM.
>
>this is a sexist, sexual assault situation and unless it was
>purely motivated by racism... trying to make this about racism
>is to do an injustice to women.
>
>you can attack me, pretend only rich white boys rape... but im
>telling the truth.
>
>
i'm with you. and i understand. i didn't say/mean that black males NEVER rape. read the answer again. i meant that the happenings for white males raping black women to black males raping white women are highly "lop-sided". this goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. matter fact. not even black women but all other races as well.

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
3216 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 02:43 AM

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57. "RE: oh really, brothers dont rape?"
In response to Reply # 32
Mon Apr-03-06 02:44 AM by ILL FLOW

  

          

Fox News just reported from (some johnny on the spot guy at DUKE) that you have to request a "black" dancer or instead they'll only send white women. so...

there was a concious decision to choose a black woman before this sexual assualt went down

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
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Mon Apr-03-06 02:37 AM

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52. "RE: The responses in this thread have been loaded with racial cliches"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


>I accept that the comment to which you have responded (in
>respect of brothers raping white women) is awful, but your
>response is just as bad in places. You were partially correct
>in asking for statistics (although I'm struggling to
>understand the value of any such study) but your comment
>thereafter is abitrary and cliched. You are basically
>re-inforcing the fallacious notion that white women love black
>cock (what does 'overly consensual' mean?!), and on this basis
>implicitly want to dismiss the idea that a white women could
>possibly be raped by a black man. Do you realise how juvenile
>this reasoning seems?

i definitely did not mean to imply that NO black male could ever rape anyone. i said "in all the cases i've seen" which constitute situations that i/my friends have been in. no more. i meant mostly saying that there is a lopsided amount of 1 to the other.



>When did this become an 'us vs you' discussion? This is a
>rhetorical sleight of hand.

in that part of my answer i was speaking to Tsetse where she started to say "we". not meaning it was me against her or anyone(for that matter). just speaking first-hand. (again i apollogize for misinterperetation(sorry if that's spelled wrong))


>I was with you until point c). Are you claiming there is a
>trend that privileged kids commit and get away with serious
>crimes across the US? Can you support this?

no...i do not have any documents or links to support my "C" factually but you as many other people can attest to seeing many events in which "over-priviledged" america getting over in the media and court situations in where the average young minority would be jailed before the ink dried on the newspaper.

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 11:15 PM

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35. "focus on the SEXISM and sexual assault before we yell racism"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

>>I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping
>white
>>girls all the god damned time... are they racist?
>
>Can we get some statistics in here? b/c i've been to many
>colleges and have many friends at different universities.
>never heard of black males RAPING white women. but hey...you
>never know. in all the cases i've seen involving white women
>w/ black males is overly consentual from the white female's
>side either drunk or sober.

In a college context, i suspect most rapes are prick white boys. However, im not talking about college contexts.

I have several family members in law enforcement, both in the police side of things and in the prison side of things.

i have to break it to everybody here... but we got a lot of brothers who rape women. This isnt primarily a white rich boy phenomenon.

My point is... focus on the reality of sexism and sexual assault before launching into a class and race critique which imo doesnt do women justice.

>>Let's not confuse issues.
>>
>>Rape is evil and must be faced. I didnt see anything in
>this
>>about racism besides the fact that it apparently was several
>>white guys raping a black girl.
>>
>>Let's focus on the issue of rape... before we start rallying
>>protests about the racial aspect, ok?
>
>re-read the post. there were claims of racial slurs throughout
>the incident and i also said that "RAPE" has ONLY one fit
>punishment. i didn't say "RACIALLY MOTIVATED RAPE" has ONLY
>one fit punishment. so no one is acknowledging only the fact
>that she is african. the post mention RACE AND RAPE.

yea, i see the bit about racial slurs... but i simply do not think that implies this was a "RACIST" incident.

i think this was a RAPE involving white boys and a black girl, and likely one of the assholes made some hostile claims. but i still dont think that means it was a RACIST or even racially motivated event whatsoever.

and again... i think even focusing on the racial aspect of this unless there was more evidence about their motivation... is a good idea.

i think folks need to focus real closely on the RAPE and not confuse issues.

>>It isnt about priviledged white boys acting like racists...
>>this is about asshole men being assholes... and last time i
>>checked we had issues on this matter across all racial
>>boundaries.
>
>only stating this so you're not confused in anyway that this
>is an excuse for us to "gang" up on your over-priveledged
>colleages. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO DUKE? these are the
>children/grand children of ppl that used to say "we don't want
>to go to school with niggers!"

ive been to plenty of priviledged white campuses. i could care less about the ways folks want to read more into this than there is...

again... a girl got raped. focus on the sexual assault and sexism involved before making this into some racial incident.

we have serious sexist and sexual assault problems across america... across races and cultures and classes. focus on it.

>>So... dont confuse the issues... please, dont... not with
>>RAPE. Focusing on the race aspect of this is really not
>>constructive unless they were explicitly doign this as a
>>racially motivated hate crime (and i dont see evidence of
>>that). Obviously the fact that she is black and getting
>raped
>>by white guys involves matters of race... but for god's sake
>>what really needs to be the focus is that this poor girl got
>>raped... not the damn color of her skin.
>
>i can understand to a certain extent that w/ the title of this
>post that it may seem all about race but after READING the
>post (which i hope you have...completely) you should find
>that:
>
>1) this is not about RACE only without caring that the sister
>was raped

yes, and focusing on the racial slurs that may have taken place during a RAPE... is absurd.

there is no evidence this is racially motivated. this isnt about evil white boys raping black girls.

it's about men raping women first and foremost. it is inappropriate to jump ahead and try to start screaming about priviledge white boys whose granddads were racists, etc.

that may all be true but the real issue is rape and sexual assault. makiong this about race does women a disservice.

>2) this is a *swipe from ABC. so if you don't believe it's
>covered correctly...then your focus should be on how their
>coverage is not shining the light where it should be

that's fine. agani, perhaps there is even more evidence of racial motivation than is conveyed here.

im just saying... folks HERE should realize a girl got raped and try to focus on the simple sexual assault and sexism dimension of this before grand standing and waxing philosophical about racism in america.

>3) this is a post in "OKAY ACTIVIST" not "OKAY 'RACE'
>ACTIVIST". so we are standing up against this whole situation
>which regards a) rape, b) race & c) the way "over-priviledged"
>america goes too far all the time due to mommy/daddy's social
>status

how many brothers raped women this year in america?

this is about RAPE and sexual assault first and foremost. we need to focus and get real... instead of making general rants about race and rich white boys.

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Fri Mar-31-06 08:25 AM

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37. "The paralysis of analysis"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

The think you seek to separate it is because white racism and privledge makes you uncomfortable.

Under our system

White women are rapeable
Black women can't be raped



As The Son of Mr. Hankey said this thread is ridden with cluelessness.







>>>I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping
>>white
>>>girls all the god damned time... are they racist?
>>
>>Can we get some statistics in here? b/c i've been to many
>>colleges and have many friends at different universities.




>>never heard of black males RAPING white women. but hey...you
>>never know. in all the cases i've seen involving white women
>>w/ black males is overly consentual from the white female's
Wg





>>side either drunk or sober.
>
>In a college context, i suspect most rapes are prick white
>boys. However, im not talking about college contexts.
>
>I have several family members in law enforcement, both in the
>police side of things and in the prison side of things.
>
>i have to break it to everybody here... but we got a lot of
>brothers who rape women. This isnt primarily a white rich boy
>phenomenon.
>
>My point is... focus on the reality of sexism and sexual
>assault before launching into a class and race critique which
>imo doesnt do women justice.
>
>>>Let's not confuse issues.
>>>
>>>Rape is evil and must be faced. I didnt see anything in
>>this
>>>about racism besides the fact that it apparently was
>several
>>>white guys raping a black girl.
>>>
>>>Let's focus on the issue of rape... before we start
>rallying
>>>protests about the racial aspect, ok?
>>
>>re-read the post. there were claims of racial slurs
>throughout
>>the incident and i also said that "RAPE" has ONLY one fit
>>punishment. i didn't say "RACIALLY MOTIVATED RAPE" has ONLY
>>one fit punishment. so no one is acknowledging only the fact
>>that she is african. the post mention RACE AND RAPE.
>
>yea, i see the bit about racial slurs... but i simply do not
>think that implies this was a "RACIST" incident.
>
>i think this was a RAPE involving white boys and a black girl,
>and likely one of the assholes made some hostile claims. but
>i still dont think that means it was a RACIST or even racially
>motivated event whatsoever.
>
>and again... i think even focusing on the racial aspect of
>this unless there was more evidence about their motivation...
>is a good idea.
>
>i think folks need to focus real closely on the RAPE and not
>confuse issues.
>
>>>It isnt about priviledged white boys acting like racists...
>>>this is about asshole men being assholes... and last time i
>>>checked we had issues on this matter across all racial
>>>boundaries.
>>
>>only stating this so you're not confused in anyway that this
>>is an excuse for us to "gang" up on your over-priveledged
>>colleages. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO DUKE? these are the
>>children/grand children of ppl that used to say "we don't
>want
>>to go to school with niggers!"
>
>ive been to plenty of priviledged white campuses. i could
>care less about the ways folks want to read more into this
>than there is...
>
>again... a girl got raped. focus on the sexual assault and
>sexism involved before making this into some racial incident.
>
>we have serious sexist and sexual assault problems across
>america... across races and cultures and classes. focus on
>it.
>
>>>So... dont confuse the issues... please, dont... not with
>>>RAPE. Focusing on the race aspect of this is really not
>>>constructive unless they were explicitly doign this as a
>>>racially motivated hate crime (and i dont see evidence of
>>>that). Obviously the fact that she is black and getting
>>raped
>>>by white guys involves matters of race... but for god's
>sake
>>>what really needs to be the focus is that this poor girl
>got
>>>raped... not the damn color of her skin.
>>
>>i can understand to a certain extent that w/ the title of
>this
>>post that it may seem all about race but after READING the
>>post (which i hope you have...completely) you should find
>>that:
>>
>>1) this is not about RACE only without caring that the
>sister
>>was raped
>
>yes, and focusing on the racial slurs that may have taken
>place during a RAPE... is absurd.
>
>there is no evidence this is racially motivated. this isnt
>about evil white boys raping black girls.
>
>it's about men raping women first and foremost. it is
>inappropriate to jump ahead and try to start screaming about
>priviledge white boys whose granddads were racists, etc.
>
>that may all be true but the real issue is rape and sexual
>assault. makiong this about race does women a disservice.
>
>>2) this is a *swipe from ABC. so if you don't believe it's
>>covered correctly...then your focus should be on how their
>>coverage is not shining the light where it should be
>
>that's fine. agani, perhaps there is even more evidence of
>racial motivation than is conveyed here.
>
>im just saying... folks HERE should realize a girl got raped
>and try to focus on the simple sexual assault and sexism
>dimension of this before grand standing and waxing
>philosophical about racism in america.
>
>>3) this is a post in "OKAY ACTIVIST" not "OKAY 'RACE'
>>ACTIVIST". so we are standing up against this whole
>situation
>>which regards a) rape, b) race & c) the way
>"over-priviledged"
>>america goes too far all the time due to mommy/daddy's
>social
>>status
>
>how many brothers raped women this year in america?
>
>this is about RAPE and sexual assault first and foremost. we
>need to focus and get real... instead of making general rants
>about race and rich white boys.
>

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Fri Mar-31-06 01:03 PM

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40. "quite the opposite"
In response to Reply # 37
Fri Mar-31-06 01:09 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>The think you seek to separate it is because white racism and
>privledge makes you uncomfortable.

I'm a black male. That's non-sense. I've been in the woods with KKK. I've been chased down by pickups. I've been abused by police officers (almost died). I dont need lectures on racism... ok?

I just happen to think rape is a very serious matter that people like to dodge (especialy males and ESPECIALLY minority males).

All im saying is... i think a lot of BROTHERS and males... want to twist stories about women getting raped into something besides them simply being raped.

It isnt about a paralysis of analysis (ive done doctoral-level sociological work about race, class, etc), but quite the opposite.

I'm saying we lack an ability to adaquately engage in direct acknowledgement of sexism and sexual assault.

Look at how i've been attaked on this forum for merely suggesting folks slow down before they protest this as a RACIAL incident before focusing squarely on the fact that another woman got raped.

I've been called a sell-out "negress," i've been told i am unable to critically analyze white priviledge, i've been told i am unable to read, that im "defending" white boys... and other non-sense.

I find that a pretty sad reflection... that a girl gets raped and we focus on her skin color (then attack anybody who emphasizes the sexual assault aspect)

It may be true that there is more than what was reported in this article and that in fact it WAS explictly racially motivated. However, even then, i'd still insist folks not forget a girl got raped and that rape is an extremely serious problem for ALL our communities and isnt just some white priviledge frat boy problem.

What i see on this forum are a lot of folks ready to riot about some frat boys yelling racial slurs and being what ignorant, priviledged white frat boys have always been...

What i do not see on this forum is many people stopping and being ready to riot about women getting raped.

  

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Jon
Charter member
15487 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 06:04 PM

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66. "you can't come to okayplayer and suggest"
In response to Reply # 40
Mon Apr-03-06 06:05 PM by Jon

  

          

"raping someone is worse than calling them names" without getting accused of defending rapists lol. shows how rediculous a lot of people on here are.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 01:18 PM

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77. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

>"raping someone is worse than calling them names" without
>getting accused of defending rapists lol. shows how rediculous
>a lot of people on here are.

amen.

to me it's disgraceful how a girl gets raped and they want to focus on the racial slurs...

i dont think people are aware how serious rape is and that it isnt a racial matter (not gonng take away from real issues of racism but folks need to acknowlege sexism and sexual assault on its own terms).

maybe it's cuz ive known and dated women who've been raped (and most dont even talk about it)... but im rather sensitive to the matter at this point.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Thu Apr-06-06 02:34 PM

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85. "if you have studied these (suppossedly)"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

then you above all people should understand how different forms of oppression correlate and interact with eachother, to say that there was racial motivation in what happened or the fact white privilege is protecting these white boys, you are being ignorant. I do agree that this was sexist and an example of a male dominated sexist society, but it was also an example of a white racist society dominated by whites. And i would have said this regardless if they had said anything or not, however they did say something which just emphasizes my point that race was tied in.

And you know what im sorry them things happened to you my dude, i understand, believe me i do. However, when you brin those examples up in an argument like this, i can't really say anything, how can someone argue with you when u say that?

"White man come into the projects and kill a black baby, OH we out in the street, in droves, oh the thousands of us I can see em now, ya dig?

But let this dude that's out in front of ya building killing hundreds of ya'll with his drugs, and his guns, and

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:31 PM

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119. "The irony.... is that folks here just make things worse"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

>then you above all people should understand how different
>forms of oppression correlate and interact with eachother, to
>say that there was racial motivation in what happened or the
>fact white privilege is protecting these white boys, you are
>being ignorant. I do agree that this was sexist and an example
>of a male dominated sexist society, but it was also an example
>of a white racist society dominated by whites. And i would
>have said this regardless if they had said anything or not,
>however they did say something which just emphasizes my point
>that race was tied in.

It is first and foremost a matter of rape in my mind and i think those trying to play this as fundamentally a "racial" incident are basically all guys who havent come to terms with how evil rape itself is on its own. I do not think this is an example of white racist society. I think this is an example of men degrading women... including white racist college students (and i think the e-thug "radical" guys here who dodge the rape aspect are ALSO part of the problem).

I do not deny racism in society at all. That's a strawman argument. It's petty to attack me for denying racism since i havent. I've gone toe-to-toe with KKK motherfuckers and have also been beaten by police officers. I dont need any fuckin lectures.

They raped this poor girl not BECAUSE she was black and they didnt even lust after her... but because they didnt respect her as a woman, as a human being, AND as a black woman.

However, the real racism in this case is happening NOW in how the media is handling this and how she's being setup as some crazy, lying "ho."

It does NOT help her case that we're all focused on the racism aspect of this instead of rallying in support to stop RAPE of ALL kinds.

>And you know what im sorry them things happened to you my
>dude, i understand, believe me i do. However, when you brin
>those examples up in an argument like this, i can't really say
>anything, how can someone argue with you when u say that?

Cuz they want to yell and scream in ways that have nothing to do with this poor girl or making a real change in the world.

Heck, look... a MODERATOR even made a separate sub-thread just to directly attack me... instead of taking a moment to respectfully think about what i was saying (and where im coming from).

These folks... just make things worse.

This poor girl is going to get eaten alive by the media... and a sexist society. Racist whites will laugh... and her own black brothers will never fuckin understand her pain because THEY want to get angry about a few racial slurs instead of another sister getting raped.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 04:37 PM

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165. "i whole-heartedly agree"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

bout the aspect of this being about degradation of women in this society, and you're right that guys, particulary black males in this situation, it is hard for us to understand the females plight, its male privilege. And we need to be up in arms, however that does not negate the obvious racial implication and tension underlying this situation. Like i said white privilege (plus male and class privilege) is protecting those dudes from real reprisal, if they was black dudes they would have already been handled. Your implications tell me that in now way is race a factor at all in this situation, which i completely disagree with, but if you ain't that's whateva

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 06:48 PM

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171. "Good Intentions but...."
In response to Reply # 40
Mon Apr-10-06 07:00 PM by Brooklynbeef

  

          

wrong case to harp on. You're completely right in regards to the epidemic proportions of rape but your mistake was trying to chide some posters for pointing that it was only a rape issue and to play down the racist overtones given Black folks experience in this beloved nation especially since many of us are prducts of rape. i don't know if it was clumsiness on your part or a tactical error but that's what I found offensive about your position as if gender is hermetically seal from other variables, as if ethnic status or class doesn't heighten sexist oppression. There was actually a court case in the mid 1800s where it was ruled that Black women can 't be raped" I'll get you the specifics of that case but the plantiff was free not enslaved. That form of hair spliting which you've undertaken is not only counterproductive or in err -- it's futile. Your time could be better spend enlightening our Black bredren on how patriarchy views undermines Black relationships, how status quo patriarchal notions supports not only violence against women but violence against other males or how patriarchal views results in ill health.


All im saying is... i think a lot of BROTHERS and males...
>want to twist stories about women getting raped into something
>besides them simply being raped.

yes males do twist stories about women being raped like "she's my wife, she can't be raped" but this is a horrid example to prove your point.

I live in NYC as you can see and recently Littlejohn, a ex-con and bar bouncer was indited by a grandjury for rape and murder of a white Joh Jay student. There was little evidence save the police said they found some of his DNA at the scene. The police detained him not for the alleged murder but for a parole violation. When the police were only questioning him one of the city's dailies said "Got Him" with his photo smeared on the front page, other tabloids insinuated his guilt. Now compared Little John's treatment to those of the Duke students and to purport that racism isn't immeshed with issues of female violence in this case is not only insulting but cravenly sad.


>>The think you seek to separate it is because white racism
>and
>>privledge makes you uncomfortable.
>
>I'm a black male. That's non-sense. I've been in the woods
>with KKK. I've been chased down by pickups. I've been abused
>by police officers (almost died). I dont need lectures on
>racism... ok?
>
>I just happen to think rape is a very serious matter that
>people like to dodge (especialy males and ESPECIALLY minority
>males).
>
>All im saying is... i think a lot of BROTHERS and males...
>want to twist stories about women getting raped into something
>besides them simply being raped.
>
>It isnt about a paralysis of analysis (ive done doctoral-level
>sociological work about race, class, etc), but quite the
>opposite.
>
>I'm saying we lack an ability to adaquately engage in direct
>acknowledgement of sexism and sexual assault.
>
>Look at how i've been attaked on this forum for merely
>suggesting folks slow down before they protest this as a
>RACIAL incident before focusing squarely on the fact that
>another woman got raped.
>
>I've been called a sell-out "negress," i've been told i am
>unable to critically analyze white priviledge, i've been told
>i am unable to read, that im "defending" white boys... and
>other non-sense.
>
>I find that a pretty sad reflection... that a girl gets raped
>and we focus on her skin color (then attack anybody who
>emphasizes the sexual assault aspect)
>
>It may be true that there is more than what was reported in
>this article and that in fact it WAS explictly racially
>motivated. However, even then, i'd still insist folks not
>forget a girl got raped and that rape is an extremely serious
>problem for ALL our communities and isnt just some white
>priviledge frat boy problem.
>
>What i see on this forum are a lot of folks ready to riot
>about some frat boys yelling racial slurs and being what
>ignorant, priviledged white frat boys have always been...
>
>What i do not see on this forum is many people stopping and
>being ready to riot about women getting raped.

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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CaptainRook
Charter member
3935 posts
Fri Mar-31-06 01:11 PM

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41. "Because of the legacy of America"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

any white male/black female sexual contact has racial overtones.

Blackwomen were raped at will for over 200 years by whitemen. Now you can argue that these slavemasters raping these blackwomen wasn't completely about racism, but too act like it had nothing to do with it is foolish.

Similar, whiteMEN (i.e., more than one) sexually agressing against a BlackWOMAN (i.e. singlar) may not be racial/racist all and in of itself, but don't act like it has nothing to do with it, especially if these whiteboys were slinging racial slurs.

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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EffectiveEssence
Member since Mar 27th 2006
102 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 08:18 AM

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9. "RE: why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

In another article I read on this site

They yelled racial slurs at her earlier in the party

Plus the neighbor heard one of the guys tell her as she left

"Tell your grandfather thanks for my cotton shirt"

And not directed to you, but whoever said they never heard of black men raping white women, doesn't mean it doesn't happen

I dated a biracial girl who was a product of that

http://midwestflava.net/forum
http://myspace.com/floorspiders

  

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son_of_mr_hankey
Member since Aug 26th 2002
703 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 08:21 AM

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10. "This"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

has devolved into cluelessness. Obvious some posters are on Neptune.

>In another article I read on this site
>
>They yelled racial slurs at her earlier in the party
>
>Plus the neighbor heard one of the guys tell her as she left
>
>"Tell your grandfather thanks for my cotton shirt"
>
>And not directed to you, but whoever said they never heard of
>black men raping white women, doesn't mean it doesn't happen
>
>I dated a biracial girl who was a product of that
>
>

From a sick okaypuppy: "Remember, Aquaman.... I will be there. Behind your shower curtain. Under your kitchen sink. Inside of your Anus. Big Brother loves you Aquaman? If you can't love me Aquaman, at least let me buttfuck you."-hideyaface

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 08:42 AM

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11. "Lol, too true"
In response to Reply # 10


          

>has devolved into cluelessness. Obvious some posters are on
>Neptune.

Especially this:

>>Plus the neighbor heard one of the guys tell her as she left
>>
>>"Tell your grandfather thanks for my cotton shirt"

It must be true then.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Fri Mar-31-06 01:18 PM

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42. "racial slurs prior to the rape (it is still about rape, tho)"
In response to Reply # 11
Fri Mar-31-06 01:19 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>>has devolved into cluelessness. Obvious some posters are
>on
>>Neptune.
>
>Especially this:
>
>>>Plus the neighbor heard one of the guys tell her as she
>left
>>>
>>>"Tell your grandfather thanks for my cotton shirt"
>
>It must be true then.

Look, if some of these assholes yelled racial slurs.. and the neighbors can confirm this happening PRIOR to the rape... it still doesnt remove the fact that this was a SEXUAL ASSAULT. But dont joke about the slurs.

We have a lot of people ready to riot about the slightest white frat boy misbehavior (as if these clowns are going to change behavior any time soon).

We do NOT have a lot of people ready to riot about women (all colors) getting raped every damn day. I'll be impressed when so many brothers are ready to riot about women getting raped... (all women).

I dont think it would be appropriate to make light of the evidence that racial slurs may have been involved in this, but such slurs do not diminish the reality that this is fundamentally about SEXUAL ASSAULT.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Sat Apr-01-06 09:30 AM

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48. "Relax man, I'm on your side."
In response to Reply # 42


          

I was laughing at the idea that people are often all too willing to believe any scrap of hearsay, rumour and conjecture, however inflammatory or implausible.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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120. "agreed (sorry, i even have a mod attacking me so im touchy)"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
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60. "RE: racial slurs prior to the rape (it is still about rape, tho)"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

now how long ago in this post did i say "ANY" rapists should be dealt with by the most extreme option?

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Thu Apr-06-06 02:41 PM

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87. "i agree wit that"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

folks don't be caring too much about women of all colors in this society

"White man come into the projects and kill a black baby, OH we out in the street, in droves, oh the thousands of us I can see em now, ya dig?

But let this dude that's out in front of ya building killing hundreds of ya'll with his drugs, and his guns, and

  

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Earl Flynn
Member since Dec 08th 2005
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Wed Mar-29-06 09:57 AM

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14. "www.blacks on whites.com"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping white
>girls all the god damned time... are they racist?
>

Each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds appointed to guard the past. ~
Maurice Maeterlinck

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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20. "^^Internet troll^^"
In response to Reply # 14


          

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
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Wed Mar-29-06 01:05 PM

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16. "if it was an case of assault&battery would you call it non-racist??"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

most likely not...

white people outnumber black people in the USA by, what, 8 to 1?
in any random assault, the victim is most likely to be white
so a black assault on white isn't necessarily racist
but a white assault on black is suspicious
it's pure statistics.

you seem to be assuming that the motivation for the rape was lust, so that could make it non-racist
but from what i've heard rapists are more concerned about power over their victims
and furthermore it looks like the criminals deliberately sought a black woman

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 11:12 PM

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34. "RE: if it was an case of assault&battery would you call it non-racist??"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>you seem to be assuming that the motivation for the rape was
>lust, so that could make it non-racist
>but from what i've heard rapists are more concerned about
>power over their victims
>and furthermore it looks like the criminals deliberately
>sought a black woman

i dont think lust alone is likely the case, albeit nor do i assume it was merely simple racism whatsoever. if it was... they'd have beaten the hell out of the girl... not raped her.

if a black man... raped a white woman... and said some racial slurs... it wouldnt be considered "racist" by 99.9% of the people here. why?

im saying... this is about an evil act of sexual assault and before we jump up and start screaming about racism and priviledged white boys... we need to get real and focus on how serious SEXISM is in america (including our own communities)

  

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scribalartz
Member since Jul 29th 2005
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19. "CLEARLY - this needs explaination"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping white
>girls all the god damned time... are they racist?
>

sourcing all that noise - http://sonicvibrations.blogspot.com

http://twitter.com/sonicvibration

  

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English_3
Member since Feb 03rd 2006
62 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 12:19 AM

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25. "RE: why, may i ask, do you say they are racist?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

You are right, but face it, this is gonna be "looked" at as a double-standard in "their" eyes

That has never happened to me before...

  

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CaptainRook
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39. "This sounds like some shit straight off of"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

stormfront.org

>I might point out that we have a lot of brothers raping white
>girls all the god damned time... are they racist?
>

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Thu Apr-06-06 02:39 PM

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86. "actually that is a common misconcetion and myth"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

that black men rape white women, in most cases of rape it is usually same-race, not to say there isn't any interracial raping happening, but definitley not "all the goddamn time" or as you so eloquently put it.

"White man come into the projects and kill a black baby, OH we out in the street, in droves, oh the thousands of us I can see em now, ya dig?

But let this dude that's out in front of ya building killing hundreds of ya'll with his drugs, and his guns, and

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:52 PM

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125. "we must directly confront issues of rape/sexual assault"
In response to Reply # 86
Sun Apr-09-06 09:53 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>that black men rape white women, in most cases of rape it is
>usually same-race, not to say there isn't any interracial
>raping happening, but definitley not "all the goddamn time" or
>as you so eloquently put it.

it is done ALL THE GODDAMN TIME... although i would agree that most rapes are done within community if not even within networks of "friends" or family.

but again... i think it's absurd folks want to pretend black males aint raping white women.

my point isnt to demonize black males. my point is to note the hypocracy in only wanting to focus on the racial dynamics while downplaying the more fundamental issue of RAPE.

this poor girl's rape is being ignored by her own "brothers" who want to focus on the racial slurs instead of her getting raped. that's my point.

she is the center of INSANE media attention as a rape victim and imo it's a shame so many want to dwell on the racial slurs and not on stopping ALL FORMS of rape in society.

i dont give a fuck if the man is black, white, chinese... or if they woman is black, male or chinese.

we must directly confront sexual assault (certainly race is a factor at times but cases like this are not ABOUT racism first and foremost, which is a convenient MALE response to this)

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
33049 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:18 PM

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115. "^ Saw King Kong 10 Xs ^"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Thought it was Oscar worthy..


"I am the ballot in ya box, the bullet in the gun, the innerglow that lets you know to call your brother sun..." © Asheru

"Knowledge:.. when the mind accepts facts, on this plane of living, knowledge be the key black..." © Q-Tip

http://www.packing.org

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
65234 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 10:53 AM

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15. "there are already two posts on the subject"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 02:35 PM

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17. "If the racial tables were turned....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...and it was a white stripper getting raped by some black basketball players (as some others pointed out in the GD thread), you can bet the old Scottsboro/Emmit Till/O.J. switch in white America's mind would get turned and veins would be popping out of foreheads. But this will probably be written off with an "aw shucks, boys will be boys" shoulder-shrug. But you can make similar comparisons of with "frat hazing" and "gang initiation," or the M.O.V.E. household and the Waco or Ruby Ridge compounds (i.e., loony Afrocentrists vs. embattled patriots), in terms of the assignation of moral outrage to black and white men (women aren't so threatening).

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 05:06 PM

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18. "Before jumping to conclusions"
In response to Reply # 17


          

>...and it was a white stripper getting raped by some black
>basketball players (as some others pointed out in the GD
>thread), you can bet the old Scottsboro/Emmit Till/O.J. switch
>in white America's mind would get turned and veins would be
>popping out of foreheads. But this will probably be written
>off with an "aw shucks, boys will be boys" shoulder-shrug. But
>you can make similar comparisons of with "frat hazing" and
>"gang initiation," or the M.O.V.E. household and the Waco or
>Ruby Ridge compounds (i.e., loony Afrocentrists vs. embattled
>patriots), in terms of the assignation of moral outrage to
>black and white men (women aren't so threatening).
>

(and I can't point the finger because I am often culpible of the same hasty thinking), is it not more prudent to wait for more information to emerge?

Nobody has been charged yet, let alone found guilty, so I would submit that it's inappropriate to editorialise in the above terms...

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Apr-03-06 02:02 AM

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50. "you did NOT just equate OJ to the Scottsboro boys and Emmitt Till..."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 06:22 PM

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67. "But that's my point"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

In a sane world, they wouldn't be equated.
But issues involving black men, white women and sex remain volatile enough to erase serious distinctions in white America's mind--between, say, nine boys falsely accused of rape, a boy who possibly whistled at a woman, and man who possibly killed his spouse and her co-adulterer. Race has a funny way of dissolving millions of people into all-purpose Group Symbols.

I have actually seen more outrage about this than I expected, following the marches at Duke, so maybe I was jumping to conclusions. But the rush to point a moralistic finger at the stripper seemed to characterize early posts on the topic.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Apr-03-06 07:10 PM

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68. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

>In a sane world, they wouldn't be equated.
>But issues involving black men, white women and sex remain
>volatile enough to erase serious distinctions in white
>America's mind--between, say, nine boys falsely accused of
>rape, a boy who possibly whistled at a woman, and man who
>possibly killed his spouse and her co-adulterer. Race has a
>funny way of dissolving millions of people into all-purpose
>Group Symbols.

who erases distinctions in their minds between Emmitt Till and OJ? Klan members? obviously there were racial issues in the Simpson case, but I think you're reaching here.

And make that "almost certainly killed his ex-spouse", and they were divorced, so they weren't adulterers. I mean there's more than enough examples of what you're talking about that you don't need to bring OJ into it.

>I have actually seen more outrage about this than I expected,
>following the marches at Duke, so maybe I was jumping to
>conclusions. But the rush to point a moralistic finger at the
>stripper seemed to characterize early posts on the topic.

well none of the coverage I've seen has pointed a moralistic finger at the woman for being a stripper, but that reaction has come out from some people. Plus the police reported she was apparently drunk after she had left the house, so I think it's gonna get ugly on that angle.

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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speaker
Member since Mar 31st 2004
651 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 09:38 PM

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70. "RE: huh?"
In response to Reply # 68
Mon Apr-03-06 09:41 PM by speaker

  

          

>>In a sane world, they wouldn't be equated.
>>But issues involving black men, white women and sex remain
>>volatile enough to erase serious distinctions in white
>>America's mind--between, say, nine boys falsely accused of
>>rape, a boy who possibly whistled at a woman, and man who
>>possibly killed his spouse and her co-adulterer. Race has a
>>funny way of dissolving millions of people into all-purpose
>>Group Symbols.
>
>who erases distinctions in their minds between Emmitt Till and
>OJ? Klan members? obviously there were racial issues in the
>Simpson case, but I think you're reaching here.

I wasn't saying that Simpson is a martyr on par with Emmitt Till. I was saying that the rage Till elicited in his killers and the rage Simpson elicited in many whites, despite the lack of moral equivalence between the two, is related on the level of black male/white female sex, and the taboos and paranoia surrounding it. That's not so controversial, is it? And on the flipside, although the rape of black women by white men has been far more prevalent in American history than the reverse, that sexual combination has been traditionally winked at by the white public. If the lacrosse players trigger the same level of outrage as the hypothetical black basketball players raping a white stripper, good. But you have to admit that it would be bucking the trend.



>
>And make that "almost certainly killed his ex-spouse", and
>they were divorced, so they weren't adulterers. I mean there's
>more than enough examples of what you're talking about that
>you don't need to bring OJ into it.


I don't know all the specifics of the Simpson trial (thank god). But I was talking about public perceptions more than particularities. Personally, I think he probably was guilty. But I also think that that the racial issues he and Nicole Brown symbolized were largely responsible for his trial becoming the overblown, 24-hour media extraganza that it was. I really hate to delve back into this early-90s mess, but I think we can agree that it played a role.


>
>>I have actually seen more outrage about this than I
>expected,
>>following the marches at Duke, so maybe I was jumping to
>>conclusions. But the rush to point a moralistic finger at
>the
>>stripper seemed to characterize early posts on the topic.
>
>well none of the coverage I've seen has pointed a moralistic
>finger at the woman for being a stripper, but that reaction
>has come out from some people. Plus the police reported she
>was apparently drunk after she had left the house, so I think
>it's gonna get ugly on that angle.
>

The finger-pointing I saw was on this board, not on TV.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Apr-05-06 12:58 AM

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83. "RE: huh?"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

>I wasn't saying that Simpson is a martyr on par with Emmitt
>Till. I was saying that the rage Till elicited in his killers
>and the rage Simpson elicited in many whites, despite the lack
>of moral equivalence between the two, is related on the level
>of black male/white female sex, and the taboos and paranoia
>surrounding it. That's not so controversial, is it?

the rage the Simpson case elicited in many whites was that the race card helped OJ get away with murder and that black people cheered it, not that he was sleeping with a white woman.


And on the
>flipside, although the rape of black women by white men has
>been far more prevalent in American history than the reverse,
>that sexual combination has been traditionally winked at by
>the white public. If the lacrosse players trigger the same
>level of outrage as the hypothetical black basketball players
>raping a white stripper, good. But you have to admit that it
>would be bucking the trend.

oh I don't doubt that at all.


>I don't know all the specifics of the Simpson trial (thank
>god). But I was talking about public perceptions more than
>particularities. Personally, I think he probably was guilty.
>But I also think that that the racial issues he and Nicole
>Brown symbolized were largely responsible for his trial
>becoming the overblown, 24-hour media extraganza that it was.
>I really hate to delve back into this early-90s mess, but I
>think we can agree that it played a role.

sure, but OJ sleeping with a white woman isn't what most white people were mad about.


>The finger-pointing I saw was on this board, not on TV.

oh ok.

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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CaptainRook
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Mon Apr-10-06 05:38 AM

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162. "Not intended to be a post jack, but"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

Anyone who believes that O.J. killed Nicole and Ron didn't watch the case themselves and most likely followed the case via the media.

<<<<"Nothings more attractive than a heavy praying woman" © Andre 3000

  

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Jon
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Mon Apr-03-06 05:56 PM

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64. "wrong"
In response to Reply # 17
Mon Apr-03-06 05:57 PM by Jon

  

          

a white girl who's close to my family was gang-raped by a group of blacks and puerto ricans in a parking lot (she arrived to meet up with 2 girls who invited her to a party and weren't there when she got there - these guys she didn't know were there instead).

cops didn't take her seriously, and there was ZERO news coverage.

rape alone isn't a sexy topic in america, unless there's tie-in to celebrities, schools, or racism (which strictly means white on black).

  

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jahlove7
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Wed Mar-29-06 08:27 PM

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21. "before it gets too stupid in here, you guys need to read"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

from the closest source: http://newsobserver.com

it amazes me how white people, regardless of where they live in the world, will defend there own, whether consciously or subconsciously. i live in the area, so i can give a more detailed perspective. but i'll let you read for yourselves.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
13176 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 09:09 PM

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23. "RE: before it gets too stupid in here, you guys need to read"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>from the closest source: http://newsobserver.com
>
>it amazes me how white people, regardless of where they live
>in the world, will defend there own, whether consciously or
>subconsciously. i live in the area, so i can give a more
>detailed perspective. but i'll let you read for yourselves.

YEP!

  

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Cram
Member since Jan 18th 2006
493 posts
Wed Mar-29-06 08:38 PM

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22. "Say it is so"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Although, why didn't the article indicate why there was racism in the act?

  

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LurkerTurnedPoster
Member since Jan 10th 2006
88 posts
Thu Mar-30-06 01:40 PM

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28. "I'll play devils advocate"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If these suspects were black males and the victim was black, do you think this would have gotten any media coverage?

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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Thu Mar-30-06 11:09 PM

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33. "not national coverage, no"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>If these suspects were black males and the victim was black,
>do you think this would have gotten any media coverage?

even if it was a black raping a white girl, it wouldnt get national coverage or likely be seen as "racially motivated" even if he used explicit racial slurs.

america isnt very good as facing/talking about sexism and sexual assault on its own terms.

  

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Jon
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65. "exactly"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

  

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RawLA
Member since Sep 13th 2002
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30. "motherfuckin surprise"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that detectives, and the team are in arms about this.

ima go out on a limb and say, fi SHE had been white, and the players had been BLACK, same circumstances of situation, THE ENTIRE team woulda been at the very least questioned and detained fo some period of time

this piece of shit country makes me sick

i hope the three pieces of shit that did this burn at the stake.




rawla323: that bebe is gon be rockin it from the womb to da tomb, on that prolific steeze
Mis*****: Injera & tamale bambinos
Mis*****: Lololol!
rawla323: ethiopians/mexicans care about the culture...

  

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jahlove7
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31. "and add in that these crackas robbed her"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

which makes it all the more appalling considering money was the reason the sistas were there in the first place. you're talking about priviledged white kids that don't have a need for money choking, raping and sodomizing a sista who's basically trying to feed her family. and throw in the racial slurs that you guys haven't read about, and this has all the makings of a hate crime.

inaugural member - okayplayer sports hall of fame.


what i'm digging right now:

chocolate butterfly - self-titled
laura jane - welcome to my planet boo
me & this japanese guy - waiting for the miracle
wade3 - dreams
tracey amos - who are we really?

  

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Jon
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63. "the cops basically shrugged off my yt friend when she was raped"
In response to Reply # 30
Mon Apr-03-06 05:48 PM by Jon

  

          

by a group of blacks & puerto ricans

its not a race thing, its a rape thing. white/black/orange/purple rape victims aren't usually taken too seriously for some reason

  

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Commie
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74. "i swear people arent hearing you man."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

you are absolutely right.


but this is Activist....

**************************************
dominus vobiscum

http://dnlbcknr.tumblr.com
http://www.instagram.com/dnlbcknr

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Thu Apr-06-06 02:58 PM

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90. "fuck you"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

i saw that myspace bullshit, racist ass white boy, eat a dick

"White man come into the projects and kill a black baby, OH we out in the street, in droves, oh the thousands of us I can see em now, ya dig?

But let this dude that's out in front of ya building killing hundreds of ya'll with his drugs, and his guns, and

  

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Commie
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161. "fuck you too."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

its not exactly like i had that picture hidden away.

its humor, you overly sensitive bitch.
did you happen to notice the picture that i had with me as one of the 9/11 hijackers?

you eat a dick.

**************************************
dominus vobiscum

http://dnlbcknr.tumblr.com
http://www.instagram.com/dnlbcknr

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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Mon Apr-10-06 04:44 PM

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166. "i gives a fuck what else you had on that website"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

you a real pussy-ass bitch you know that? I can't believe you think that shit's funny, "humour" some shit ain't funny and that's one of those things, but then of course you think its cool huh? Obviously you dont realize what the fuck happended in history to my people by your people huh? But you wanna make a joke bout it cuz you think its funny....fuck outta here, and by the way that 9/11 shit aint funny either, pussy

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Commie
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172. "please shut up and die."
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

there is nothing i can say that would show you the humor that was intended in that picture. if you didnt get it, then its not for you.

i find it amazing that you can gather enough information from that picture to call me a pussy. perhaps you should learn to be a little more clever in your criticisms. or maybe you also "gives a fuck" about that, too?


choke.

**************************************
dominus vobiscum

http://dnlbcknr.tumblr.com
http://www.instagram.com/dnlbcknr

  

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LurkerTurnedPoster
Member since Jan 10th 2006
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:17 PM

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82. "RE: the cops basically shrugged off my yt friend when she was raped"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>by a group of blacks & puerto ricans
>
>its not a race thing, its a rape thing.
>white/black/orange/purple rape victims aren't usually taken
>too seriously for some reason


That is part of the reason why most women don't report rape.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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89. "that's because they are women"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

but race does factor in, im sorry for your friend i really am. That shit shouldn't have happened, and them dudes should have got put in jail. At the same time black women deal with both racism and sexism, white women don't so racism does play a factor especially when white boys are doin it, they are very much at this moment being protected by white privilege. If it was switched and it was black boys, believe me there would be an uproar across America fam, lets be real. Shit ain't the same

"White man come into the projects and kill a black baby, OH we out in the street, in droves, oh the thousands of us I can see em now, ya dig?

But let this dude that's out in front of ya building killing hundreds of ya'll with his drugs, and his guns, and

  

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Jon
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92. "what the?? are you trying to make my brain explode??"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

"if it was switched, there would have been a huge uproar"

did i not just give an example of "it being switched" and prove there was no uproar, and you REPLY saying "if it was switched there would have been a huge uproar"?


that makes zero sense

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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Fri Apr-07-06 02:39 AM

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98. "dog i am making a general statment,"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

your example is an isolated incident, just because your example occurred does not negate the fact that in GENERAL, that if it was black men raping a white woman in the Duke they would have already been in jail, and everybody would be talking and bout it and trying to get them. These duke boys are rich and caucasian, white privlige is protecting and shielding them from overwhelming reprisal which would have occurred had they been black and the woman white. Honestly dog if you think that, your logic assumes that racism in this country holds little, if any, factor in today's society, which i would say is EXTREMELY ignorant. But if you are not saying that, then i think my argument is justified because i am going off the premise that a black male in comparison to a white male is treated and looked at significantly different individually and institutionally.

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called bigamy: Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Jon
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99. "i'm not saying racism isn't a real factor in todays society. i'm saying"
In response to Reply # 98
Fri Apr-07-06 08:42 AM by Jon

  

          

when it comes to a bunch of black guys gang-raping a white woman, the FACT (not hypothetical theory) of the matter is there's still no uproar. in very white New Hampshire.

yet, you blow right over that and continue to say "if it was black guys raping a white woman, there would be a huge uproar" ... hello? how do you say that after being shown an example of NO uproar?...then you say "well, that was an isolated incident." that strikes me as you just not wanting to give up your hypothetical theory even in the face of test results that prove the opposite.

  

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truekolor
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101. "DOG YOU NEED TO LISTEN"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

pay attention now, i never said that every time black men rape a white woman there is a huge uproar, i said in GENERAL, do you see the difference. I agree that the time(s) you are talkin bout, nuthin happened. But you cannot take a isolated incidence and then make an overeaching statement that says "black men get the same treatment white men get in society and in the criminal system", cuz that is what you imply with your statements. I already affirmed that what happened occured and that nothing happened to them, however that is an occurence that happens rarely and infrequently, do you understand what i am saying now?

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Jon
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103. "number 1, you said"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

if the roles were switched, there would be an uproar. ...you did NOT say "sometimes there would be an uproar" ... and guess what: there is an uproar about this Duke thing

>you cannot take a isolated
>incidence

you call it an isolated incident because it doesn't support your theory.

>and then make an overeaching statement that says
>"black men get the same treatment white men get in society and
>in the criminal system", cuz that is what you imply with your
>statements.

no, that's not what i imply. i never said we all get the same treatment in this society. you put words in my mouth, because you're more comfortable with your neat little categories of what kind of people think what and say what. my point is very specific to rape in this modern age. my stance is that, black or white doesn't matter in RAPE cases (not talking about anything else), because, like i already said, rape victims are not taken seriously. the only time a rape case makes news is if they can tie in a celebrity factor or racism factor, because celebrity sells and race sells, but rape does not. and black men raping white women is not a race issue (at least its not viewed as a race issue, and usually probably isn't). but white men raping a black woman IS seen as a race issue, which is why this is getting all this attention. because a black woman was raped by white men, and people everywhere are saying "that's fucked up! lets look at it". but what's sad, is that, if this sexy race issue wasn't part of it, her rape would have gotten zero attention.


> however that is an occurence
>that happens rarely and infrequently,

you're not serious are you? women of all colors are raped by men of all colors all the time. but because so many women also cry rape to get back at a guy or blackmail him, most of us tend to not take women seriously. but to say white women are rarely raped by black men (along with every other race-gender combo) is crazy talk.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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108. "it's like this family"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

first off my point in this whole and my main disagreement with you is that racism,(in the sense of the system, institution, white privilege and within the context of a larger white american society,and not necessarily the "kkk" sort of racism that most people associate the word with)is also a factor, yes you are right that because they are rape victims most likely there will be problems, however at the same time you have to realize how other forms of oppression work and interact together, sexism and racism both play a part in this.

Second the reason why i say that it is an isolated incidence, is because it is. Do you really think that if a black man raped a white girl, folks will just sit down? hell nah, what i am tryin to say is that when the rapist is black, it fulfills the stereotype that is prevalent in white america that the black male is dangerous, hostile, angry, violent and a perverted animal who cannot control his sexual urges. That same stereotype is not seen in white males, so when a black male rapes any girl, their is no suprise on the part of the larger white society, but if its a white girl, believe me, folks get pissed. And that is what i mean, because white privilege right now is protecting these white boys at the moment, the players would have all been in jail already had they been black.

Third, i honestly don't think you be listening or reading correctly what i am saying. What i said that doesn't occur frequently is when a black male rapes a white girl with no reprisal. Not that black men don't rape white women, but in any case though that was not my point at all; it is very true that rape in most cases is same race and rarely interacial. Whether it be, black man-white girl or white man-black girl.

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Chike
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110. "RE: it's like this family"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

>Third, i honestly don't think you be listening or reading
>correctly what i am saying. What i said that doesn't occur
>frequently is when a black male rapes a white girl with no
>reprisal. Not that black men don't rape white women, but in
>any case though that was not my point at all; it is very true
>that rape in most cases is same race and rarely interacial.
>Whether it be, black man-white girl or white man-black girl.

Yep. Of course, things weren't always this way. Interracial rape in the Americas used to be extremely common, perhaps more common than intraracial rape. As we all know, this has something to do with the array of shades in which black people come.

  

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Jon
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123. "once again"
In response to Reply # 108
Sun Apr-09-06 09:39 PM by Jon

  

          

you just said "do you really think a black man could rape a white women and people would just sit down?"

ummm...obviously yes. you're utterly ignoring the lab results in defense of your hypothesis.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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Mon Apr-10-06 04:49 PM

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167. "huh"
In response to Reply # 123
Mon Apr-10-06 04:50 PM by truekolor

  

          

>you just said "do you really think a black man could rape a
>white women and people would just sit down?"
>
>ummm...obviously yes. you're utterly ignoring the lab results
>in defense of your hypothesis.

what lab results are you talking about? im looking at the general societal response, not individual responses, in GENERAL black men raping a white women will not be ignored. That doesn't mean that there aren't individual cases where black men rape a white girl and they get away, obviously. Your story is an example of that, but like i said in GENERAL it is not like that


"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 06:12 AM

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176. "your point is? your facts are?"
In response to Reply # 167
Tue Apr-11-06 06:13 AM by Tsetse

  

          

>what lab results are you talking about? im looking at the
>general societal response, not individual responses, in
>GENERAL black men raping a white women will not be ignored.
>That doesn't mean that there aren't individual cases where
>black men rape a white girl and they get away, obviously. Your
>story is an example of that, but like i said in GENERAL it is
>not like that

You make these claims based on what??? Facts?

Let's see your stats... cuz what i think you are doing is presuming racism in society will always trump sexism.

And finally... why are you arguing with this guy and diminishing the reality and point of his story?

There are a lot of guys (of all races) who get away with rape.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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189. "never said that fam"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

and you need to chill son, ain't no one attacking you here, im trying to have a cool discussion, you gettin mad for no reason. Anyways, im not diminishing nuthin he said, and i don't necessarily think that racism trumps sexism, i rather look at how all forms of oppression interact with each other, i never said in this "racism" is at the forefront of this issue, however i do think it is a factor and prevalent in this situation, i won't deny the sexism and mistreatment of rape victims, that is as real as anything, believe me i know. However, i think it is easier for the COUNTRY AT LARGE (im not talking about black people or black males) to admit their sexist ways as oppossed to talking about racism and its effects. And i feel as if to deny the racial motivations and factors in this case would be ignorant

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Abbstrack
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44. "good article on espn"
In response to Reply # 0


          

on the Durham NC backdrop:

DURHAM, N.C. -- Robins are singing in the nearby bushes and early morning sun streams down through the leafless oak trees; but for now, nature's beauty is wasted on the shabby, off-white house at 610 North Buchanan Blvd. It's abandoned and unnaturally quiet.

The black shutters are battered, the shades in the windows are broken and a section of the gutter is twisted away from the house at an awkward angle. Across the street stands the waist-high gray stone wall that surrounds the periphery of Duke University's East Campus. A distance of only 50 feet separates the house from the campus; but in a metaphorical sense, it could be miles.

For this house, set in a modest, residential neighborhood, is a symbol of everything that is perceived to be wrong with the men's lacrosse team at Duke. The school's athletic programs, men's basketball in particular, generally are seen as standards of excellence, striking the right balance between spirited top-level competition and the pursuit of academic enlightenment. An alcohol-fueled party here involving most of the team's 47 players on March 13 has blighted that reputation.


The house on Buchanan Street is vacant now, but was the site of the alleged assault on March 13.
A stripper who was paid $400 to perform that night has alleged that she was gang-raped, sodomized and strangled by three lacrosse players at the party. The district attorney said the incident is being investigated by officials as first-degree forcible rape, common law robbery, first-degree kidnapping, first-degree sexual assault and felonious strangulation. A conviction on those charges could result in a minimum prison sentence of 16 to 20 years.

No players have been charged, pending the results of DNA testing. But in national headlines, members of the lacrosse team have been painted with the same brush of athletic entitlement and privilege gone bad as boxer Mike Tyson and Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant. The lacrosse team's season, pending resolution of the case, has been suspended.

The players vehemently have denied the accusations in a four-paragraph statement from the three captains, which so far is the only public acknowledgement offered by the team itself beyond standard declarations of innocence from several players' newly retained defense attorneys.

On Thursday, the house, which has been a rallying point for angry demonstrators, carried a different message.

Five signs taped together to the wrought-iron work on the front landing read, "Innocent Until Proven Guilty."

Another read, "ALLEDGED: Represented as existing or as being as described, but not so proved; supposed."

The source for the definition was listed as www.dictionary.com, and that online source presumably wasn't responsible for the first "D." Apparently at Duke, where the average SAT verbal scores fall between 690 and 770, not everyone has a command of spelling.

That the stripper making the allegations is black while 46 of the lacrosse team's members are white has exacerbated what already was a volatile situation. The intersection of so many hot-button issues -- race, class, gender, alleged sexual abuse -- has ignited the passions of many typically disenfranchised groups. For a week now, the charged atmosphere on the campus here at Duke has been like a radical postcard from the late 1960s. There have been demonstrations nearly every day, and student groups have pressed the cautious administration for answers and action.

"The issues here," said Chandra Y. Guinn, director of the Mary Lou Williams Center for Black Culture, "go far deeper than a single incident. There are pockets of white privilege on this campus, pockets of class privilege.

"Our students are focusing on the feelings of hurt and shame of the negative portrayal of Duke students."

The students themselves, not surprisingly, are less circumspect. Their anger is palpable. On Thursday, the Concerned Citizens group sponsored an open-mic demonstration on the central quad next to the library.

"They're angry because there's been a horrible alleged crime committed by our students," said Nick Shungu, a Duke senior. "The racial aspect only magnifies things."

"There's an embedded white supremacy here," said Travis Simons, a Duke divinity student.

The alleged victim claims that she was the target of racial slurs, and a 911 tape released by the city features a black woman claiming that a man who came out of the house called her and a black friend "n------" as they walked past. Neighbors also reported that they heard racial slurs.

"North Carolina is the Bible Belt, and a fair amount of folks in the black community feel the sexual attack was something the young woman brought on herself," said Mark Anthony Neal, a Duke associate professor who teaches black pop culture in the African-American Studies Department. "On a certain level, they're most concerned with the racial epitaphs.

"For me, this is not simply a case of sexual violence or just a case of racism. It's a case of racialized sexual violence, meaning if it had been a white woman in that room, it would not have gone down the same way. It's difficult for many folks to understand how race and gender came together in this case. You just can't pull them apart."

The horrible question floating around in people's minds here: Did the lacrosse players make a special request for a black dancer that night? ESPN.com contacted several escort services like the one that provided the lacrosse players with two dancers. Representatives of two of the services said they typically send white dancers unless a special request is made. Were the players' actions premeditated in that respect? One of the views circulating in the community is stereotypical in its own way -- that white college frat boys, conditioned by hours of watching rap videos on television, see black women largely as objects of sexual desire.

"It's a valid point," Neal said. "The image that corporate America is selling through hip-hop is that these women aren't just sex objects, but available, too. These are women that can't say no. There is an historical discourse in this country that suggests black women can't be raped."

"People around here are passing it because it was a rape," Shungu said. "People are passing it because it was a black woman that was raped.

"It's disappointing it took something like this to mobilize the students. The incident is incredibly sad, but it's been uplifting to see the students rally together like this the last five or six days."

Town versus gown
Durham, a small, sleepy depot for the North Carolina Railroad in the 1850s, exploded after the Civil War. Soldiers raved about the local "Brightleaf" tobacco that, owing to the sandy soil of the coastal plains, was said to be exceptionally mild. Tobacco was a burgeoning industry.

While the cultivation and processing of tobacco in the mid-19th century is closely associated with slave labor, Durham also produced some of the most prosperous black-owned businesses in the country during the early 20th century.

Trinity College, established in 1892, became Duke University in 1924 thanks to an endowment from James B. Duke, who built his father's tobacco farm into a hugely successful business. The existing buildings, moored firmly in the town, became the East Campus. The West campus was carved out of forest land and essentially grew into a city of its own.

Today, Duke, where 85 percent of the undergraduate population of 6,259 is from out of state, is still viewed by some as a community of carpetbaggers.

"Duke has a reputation for town versus gown issues," said Lillian Spiller, the administrative coordinator of the Women's Studies Program at Duke, who said she was speaking merely as an individual. "It's a difficult climate here. There are historic patterns that continue, unfortunately."

Many colleges have issues with the cities they occupy, but the demographics of the two entities in this case -- Duke and Durham -- seem to have heightened the conflict.

While recent studies show that females make up a decided majority at many colleges, 52 percent of Duke's students are male. According to statistics furnished by the Princeton Review, Duke's Caucasian population is 56 percent, compared to 11 percent for African Americans.

Durham, by contrast, is a city of 200,000; and the 2000 Census placed the black population at 43.8 percent, narrowly behind the 45.5 percent that is white.

"Of the four major cities in the Research Triangle, Durham is probably the most diverse," Mayor William Bell said in a telephone interview on Friday. "People are very outspoken and find ways to voice their concerns."

Bell said the media has magnified the incident, creating even more tension.

"We had a cross-burning about a year ago, and the community was outraged," Bell said. "There wasn't much national media attention, though. Today, ESPN is down here, CBS, the New York Times and Washington Post. All of that attention sort of magnifies the issue.

"I daresay if this incident had been reversed, if an alleged crime was committed by black athletes at North Carolina Central University, I doubt it would have made these kind of headlines."

The house on Buchanan Street leased by three lacrosse players, technically off campus, can be seen as a microcosm of Duke in Durham. Neighbors have complained for years about Duke students living in similar houses, and 610 North Buchanan apparently has been a constant source of tension. According to reports, there have been at least five formal complaints to police since September.

On Wednesday night this week, a caller to WUNC's public radio program, "The State of Things," said that Duke treats the town like a plantation.

"That captures it," said Neal, who was a guest on the show. "Durham residents have been looking for a moment like this to address their concerns. This was sort of the last straw. The fact that the university responded at all, I think, was due to that push-back."

Betty Greene, a Durham resident for 10 years, lived in New Haven, Conn., for more than a decade. She said she believes the relationship between Durham and Duke is far more fractured than that of Yale University and its Connecticut city.

"Last weekend was Duke's minority recruitment," Greene said. "What a welcome for minority students to walk into this story. I'm trying not to call it racial terrorism, but that's really what it is."

That the alleged victim, a mother of two children, is a student at North Carolina Central University, is emblematic of the rift, too.

Central is about three miles southeast of Duke, in a neighborhood that doesn't resemble Duke's pristine campus. The student population is 79 percent black and 3 percent white. While 90 percent of Duke's students come from the top 10 percent of their high school classes, only 5 percent of NCCU's students can make that claim.

“ Last weekend was Duke's minority recruitment. What a welcome for minority students to walk into this story. I'm not trying to call it racial terrorism, but that's what it really is. ”
— Betty Greene, a Durham resident for 10 years
Central is undertaking a $1 million fundraising effort to refurbish its McLendon-McDougald gym. Giving is noted in modest increments of $1,000. Between 1996 and 2003, Duke raised $2.36 billion in its Campaign for Duke, the fifth-largest effort in the history of higher education; and Duke spent $2 million to refurbish its Cameron Indoor basketball arena … 20 years ago.

One Central student, who asked not to be named, wondered on Thursday what would have happened if Central's basketball team -- of which 16 of 17 players are black  had been accused of a similar crime against a white woman.

"Somebody," the student said, "would be in jail."

At Thursday's open forum, a Duke student, who declined to be named, said she worked at a local soup kitchen.

"You know what the soup kitchen folks think of Duke?" she asked with emotion. " 'Duke s---- on Durham! We hate Duke! "

Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong is aware of the political dynamic. He has said, despite the players' denials, that he believes a rape took place. He also has been a constant presence in the media and has vigorously pursued the case. Cynics note that there might be a connection to his race for re-election in May against three other announced candidates.

Many people in the community feel Duke's administration has been slow to act in this case. This past week, however, President Richard Brodhead was more visible. On Thursday, he sent letters to students, parents and alumni in an attempt to calm campus-wide tension. He also met with prominent black leaders, including Bell and N.C. Central Chancellor James Ammons.

Bell has worked with the last four Duke Presidents over the years.

"I've seen a steady improvement in town-gown relations," Bell said. "The president understands the seriousness of this issue and he understands the implications, not just for Duke but for the City of Durham itself. We all agreed that right now these are allegations, that we need to let it work its way through the legal process. At the same time, there are moral and ethical issues we need to look at."

"What has been alleged," Ammons said, "these kinds of acts, have no place in civilized society."

That meeting took place on the Duke campus. At Ammons' suggestion, a follow-up meeting will occur on the North Carolina Central campus.

Carte blanche?
Tom Wolfe saw all of this coming. Or a lot of it, anyway.

Wolfe wrote "The Right Stuff" in 1979 about the Apollo astronauts, and tackled the subject of 1980s greed in "The Bonfire of the Vanities." In 2004, "I am Charlotte Simmons" was his take on the modern college experience.

The setting is fictional Dupont University -- some would say the first two letters are instructive -- an oasis of academia set in the middle of the black slums somewhere in a city in the south. Two groups of students, athletes and fraternity members, come under Wolfe's harsh scrutiny.

One character, Hoyt Thorpe, a senior who says his favorite movie is "Animal House," is a member of the exclusive Saint Ray fraternity.

"A fraternity like Saint Ray, if you really understood it, forged you into a man who stood apart from the ordinary run of passive, compliant American college boys," Wolfe wrote. "Saint Ray was a MasterCard that gave you the carte blanche to assert yourself. One of the things you learned as a Saint Ray was how rattled and baffled people were when confronted by those who took no s---."

Drinking, watching rap videos and having sex are the primary recreational occupations of the male students in the book. Lacrosse players, for what it's worth, are not portrayed flatteringly. Ultimately, Thorpe seduces Charlotte Simmons, the innocent freshman, at an overnight formal after a night of heavy drinking.

Wolfe will be on campus in late April at Duke's 2006 North Carolina Festival of the Book. Wolfe's topic: "What's Southern Today?" It's hard to imagine a discussion of the parallels between the two narratives not arising.

If Duke is a bastion of the elite, the men's lacrosse team represents an even more densely concentrated pool of privilege. The players have first names like Breck and Gibbs and Reade, and most of them attended prep schools. In fact, 26 of the 47 players come from the states of Connecticut, New York and New Jersey, which annually are among the highest-income-per-capita states.

On Tuesday, the Raleigh News & Observer broke the story that 15 of the players -- nearly a third of the team -- had been charged in recent months with misdemeanors following drunken and disruptive behavior. For a variety of reasons, most escaped criminal convictions.

"One reason I think the students are upset is because they feel the issue of out-of-control drinking and partying has not been addressed by the university," said Charlotte Pierce-Baker, a research professor in the school's Women's Studies program. "This is almost like a culmination.

"The women are scared. There is no one saying, 'We're protecting you.' "

Pierce-Baker, a black woman who wrote a book called "Surviving the Silence: Black Women's Stories of Rape" in 1998, teaches a seminar called "Trauma Violence, Women Writing." The class of 12 students met on Thursday.

"We talked about white privilege and what happens when the body is racialized," Pierce-Baker said. "If you know that one in six women will be assaulted in their lifetime -- and that doesn't include the many unreported cases -- you can understand why women are quivering. The women of this campus, the place where they live, has been violated, and nobody seems to be paying much attention to that.

"I'm not passing judgment on all of the 46 men in that house; but there was, in the end, one woman. All these articles are being written about concern for the embarrassment of these men, the embarrassment of their families. What about the embarrassment and shame and anger of the woman? She's been taken completely out of the picture."

One of the T-shirts at a vigil on Wednesday bore this message: "Get a conscience, not a lawyer." So far, the perception on campus is that most players have ignored that advice. Most of them have retained the services of attorneys.

"The fact that the DA is out in the public saying these boys are guilty is just extraordinary," said Joseph B. Cheshire V, who represents one of the captains. "I am absolutely convinced, and I think everyone in that house will testify, that nothing like these allegations happened."

Outside of a press conference on Tuesday, when athletic director Joe Alleva appeared with President Brodhead, the athletic department has been silent.

"Unfortunately," Alleva said, "sometimes young men have bad judgment."

Art Chase, Duke's sports information director, declined to make Alleva or head coach Mike Pressler available to ESPN.com. Asked how he was holding up during the crisis, Chase sighed.

"It's all a part of the deal," he said.

With the lacrosse season in limbo, no one knows if one of the best teams in the country -- a team that lost to Johns Hopkins in last year's national championship game by a single goal -- will compete in the upcoming 16-team NCAA Tournament. One thing the team can count on: Protestors are making plans to demonstrate at future practices.

It is worth noting that Duke recently had purchased the house at 610 North Buchanan and others like it in response to complaints from the community. Since the three lacrosse players held a lease through the academic year, however, they were permitted to stay. After the incident, the players moved out, for "safety reasons," according to a Duke official.

Other than reporters from "Inside Edition" and the local ABC affiliate, one of the few signs of life around the house on Thursday was an azalea in front of the dirty white-brick foundation. Although half of the bush appeared lifeless, rose-colored buds were emerging from the few healthy branches.

A sign of hope among the wreckage?

"If the DNA testing comes back and these lacrosse players are found guilty, the school is going to have to make some serious concessions," said Neal, the associate professor. "They're going to have to go to great lengths to make people feel safe.

"If these assaults are coming from the best and brightest of Duke, it's clear there's something significant going on here that needs to be addressed."

Greg Garber is a senior writer for ESPN.com

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

  

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Natural Mystic
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Fri Mar-31-06 11:49 PM

45. "If you a Stripper, than you should know that could be part of the game"
In response to Reply # 0


          

not to justify that type of attack at ALL
but im just sayin.

  

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PlanetInfinite
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69. "you're the dumbest person behind a keyboard right now."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

to say that is like saying "yeah that 8 year old got shot in the street, but he should know that's part of the game when he's out playing on his big wheel".

these women are strippers, not instruments made to rape and assault.
NOBODY expects that.
NOBODY wants that.

and to see this coming from a woman shows that you're not much of a smart one.

---------------------
"teeth grinding experience" -jus
http://www.myspace.com/thievinstealberg

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Thu Apr-06-06 03:04 PM

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91. "why would would you even say that"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

if that doesn't justify what is happening then why bring that shit up, we ain't talkin about whether or not strippers should know what they're gettin themselves into, we are talkin bout a female that got raped, and what you said just minimized what she went through, and that's stupid as hell

"White man come into the projects and kill a black baby, OH we out in the street, in droves, oh the thousands of us I can see em now, ya dig?

But let this dude that's out in front of ya building killing hundreds of ya'll with his drugs, and his guns, and

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
2361 posts
Sat Apr-01-06 02:44 AM

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46. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This issue reachs far beyond rape and racism. This is just another example of how homosexual, perverted and sadistic the white man is. These Duke crackas are no different than the soldiers who did that gay shit to the prisoners at Abu Ghraib or the marines who gang raped that Filipina last November. Gang rape seems to be a consistent dream and desire of the white man. It's simple psychology, they know their small penis doesn't add up to that of the colored man, so they have gay fantasies of raping a woman with other men to compensate for that. This applies especially to this particular case. Those Duke crackas knew that their small penises couldn't compare to the penises of the black men that sistah would normally have sex with, so their jealousy led them to gang rape her so they wouldn't feel sexually inferior.


"I'll put Lil' Wayne 'n' Lil' Zane in a lil' pain/Call Lil' Kim to gimme a lil' brain/Fuck Lil' Ze, the nigga's a lil' lame/Hop up out the big 740 with Lil' Fame/Keep a big gun 'n' got me a lil' aim/Pop Lil' Bow Wow, crush his lil' frame/Slap Lil' Dap and yap his lil' chain." - Saigon

  

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40thStreetBlack
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51. "sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

<--------- Harvey BETTER

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
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Mon Apr-03-06 03:54 AM

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61. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>This issue reachs far beyond rape and racism. This is just
>another example of how homosexual, perverted and sadistic the
>white man is. These Duke crackas are no different than the
>soldiers who did that gay shit to the prisoners at Abu Ghraib
>or the marines who gang raped that Filipina last November.
>Gang rape seems to be a consistent dream and desire of the
>white man.

i'll agree w/ this. but the rest is just too hilarious to try to back up. sounds like something the character Martin played in Boomerang would say. lol

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King of Persia
Member since Mar 20th 2006
11 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 10:45 PM

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71. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

In regards to your response- I feel you are falling to the same folly as the hated "white man". By claiming that it is the inevitable doom of the white man to commit acts of sodomy, violence, rape, and other atrocities, you're buying the same bullshit argument European colonists and slavers used to enslave black people or disenfranchise any other native people. Scum is scum, and it comes in all shapes and shades. Their actions reveal their own stupidity and vileness- and you can't make bullshit generalizations about them. What you can do is slam the university for protecting them at first when they should have promptly dropped their filthy asses in the local jail. Anyways for future reference lets keep our arguments fiery but logical. Racism of any form shouldn't be tolerated in these forums, be it against blacks, whites, moslems, whatever.



And Check out that new shit by Gnarls Barkley.

  

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LurkerTurnedPoster
Member since Jan 10th 2006
88 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 06:59 PM

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81. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

There are many people who commit acts of this kind across ALL racial and ethnic catergories.

His argument is simply jibberish.

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
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Tue Apr-04-06 06:07 AM

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73. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>i'll agree w/ this. but the rest is just too hilarious to try
>to back up. sounds like something the character Martin played
>in Boomerang would say. lol

Huey Newton uttered my same words 40 years ago and they're more true now then they were then. Read The Black Panthers Speak by Philip S. Foner. It also reminds me of a joke by Paul Mooney: "The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called bigamy: Bigga-den-me."


"I'll put Lil' Wayne 'n' Lil' Zane in a lil' pain/Call Lil' Kim to gimme a lil' brain/Fuck Lil' Ze, the nigga's a lil' lame/Hop up out the big 740 with Lil' Fame/Keep a big gun 'n' got me a lil' aim/Pop Lil' Bow Wow, crush his lil' frame/Slap Lil' Dap and yap his lil' chain." - Saigon

  

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Jon
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78. "then i guess he wasn't too bright either."
In response to Reply # 73
Tue Apr-04-06 01:25 PM by Jon

  

          

any black man who uses gang rape as evidence that an entire race of men are homos is setting his own self up for some wierd looks in the locker room

  

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Jon
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62. "so u're saying black men are homos? wow"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

  

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Commie
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75. "YOU shoulda been a blowjob."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

**************************************
dominus vobiscum

http://dnlbcknr.tumblr.com
http://www.instagram.com/dnlbcknr

  

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LurkerTurnedPoster
Member since Jan 10th 2006
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Tue Apr-04-06 06:56 PM

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80. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

>This issue reachs far beyond rape and racism. This is just
>another example of how homosexual, perverted and sadistic the
>white man is.


Are you serious?

Are you saying there is someone in the DNA of white man that makes them into these prowling sadistic animals?

>These Duke crackas are no different than the
>soldiers who did that gay shit to the prisoners at Abu Ghraib
>or the marines who gang raped that Filipina last November.
>Gang rape seems to be a consistent dream and desire of the
>white man.


Huh?

> It's simple psychology, they know their small penis
>doesn't add up to that of the colored man, so they have gay
>fantasies of raping a woman with other men to compensate for
>that. This applies especially to this particular case. Those
>Duke crackas knew that their small penises couldn't compare to
>the penises of the black men that sistah would normally have
>sex with, so their jealousy led them to gang rape her so they
>wouldn't feel sexually inferior.


This is not only ridiculous but flat out laughable. I hope you're not serious.

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
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Thu Apr-06-06 09:01 PM

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94. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 80
Thu Apr-06-06 09:07 PM by Vaiops2wega

  

          

>This is not only ridiculous but flat out laughable.

Is that why the Romans had gay orgies? History doesn't lie.

  

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cornelius_neil
Member since Apr 03rd 2006
5 posts
Mon Apr-03-06 11:47 PM

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72. "RE: racist white boys rape black woman at Duke University"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This shows that racism is still alive and well. It's just a shame.

  

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3X
Member since Oct 18th 2004
7667 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 12:53 PM

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76. "If this was a black basketball team accused of raping a cracker"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they would be in jail with no bond. the double standards of the racist white media is sickening. this is just more proof why blacks need their own black news television station.

-------
It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

  

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3X
Member since Oct 18th 2004
7667 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 01:30 PM

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79. "Limbaugh called alleged Duke rape victim a "ho""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200604030004

Limbaugh called alleged Duke rape victim a "ho"

Summary: On his national syndicated radio program, Rush Limbaugh referred to the alleged victim of a rape by members of the Duke University lacrosse team as a "ho[]."

During the March 31 broadcast of his national syndicated radio program, Rush Limbaugh referred to the alleged victim of a rape by members of the Duke University lacrosse team as a "ho[]." During an on-air discussion with a caller, Limbaugh said that former Democratic presidential candidate Al Sharpton was "trying to figure out how he can get involved in the deal down there at Duke where the lacrosse team ... supposedly, you know, raped some, uh, hos." Limbaugh's made the comment about a recent incident in Durham, North Carolina, in which an exotic dancer was allegedly raped by three members of the Duke lacrosse team. The incident has invoked further controversy because the victim, an African-American, has alleged that her attackers used racial epithets. Prompted by another caller to apologize for his words, Limbaugh said that he had made the statement because he was "running on fumes today," and called it a "terrible slip of the tongue." But he then added that there are "some inconsistencies" in the case and rephrased his apology, telling the second caller, "I regret that you heard me say it."

From the March 31 edition of The Rush Limbaugh Show:

CALLER 1: Why is it, do you think, that you haven't heard hardly anything from Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton about the whole immigration thing? I mean, the silence is deafening from --

LIMBAUGH: Well, they're busy.

CALLER 1: -- the NAACP and the --

LIMBAUGH: They're -- they're busy. They're busy. The Reverend Jackson is in New Orleans. He's leading a big march there tomorrow. The march is -- what is it called? The -- the march for the right to return a protected vote and reconstruction. He's trying to -- they got problems down in New Orleans. They don't have voter base, and Sharpton's working on a New Orleans deal, too. He's trying to figure out how he can get involved in the deal down there at Duke where the lacrosse team --

CALLER 1: Yeah.

LIMBAUGH: -- uh, supposedly, you know, raped, some, uh, hos.

CALLER 1: But I don't think they're very happy about all of this.

LIMBAUGH: Yeah, well, but, the problem -- that -- that has a possibility down -- that Duke thing's got a possibility of being a Tawana Brawley situation. That -- and Sharpton's got a balance -- can he afford another one of those as -- as his life's going on? New Orleans is a big deal to him, and I -- I'm gonna tell you something. You'll -- you'll see these guys -- at some point, they will get involved, be-because when Ted Kennedy calls it the new civil rights movement, that's Jesse Jackson's turf. He owns it. So --

CALLER 1: Right.

LIMBAUGH: Yeah, anyway, I gotta run here because of the constraints of time out there. , a great, great question. Uh, exotic dancer, OK, say rape -- whatever happened. You know what it is down there at Duke. It's -- you watch what happens in that. That's --



LIMBAUGH: It's open-line Friday, and I am Rush Limbaugh, America's anchorman and your host for life. This is -- this is from Bryant, Texas. Hello, , great to have you with us.

CALLER 2: Rush, did you just call those young ladies "hos" on the nationally syndicated program?

LIMBAUGH: Yes.

CALLER 2: Do you know something about them that perhaps we don't know?

LIMBAUGH: Yes, yes I did.

CALLER 2: Oh, you --

LIMBAUGH: It was a, it was -- hang on -- now, what, what did you say there, ?

CALLER 2: I said, because -- and if they are hos, it doesn't mean that they can still -- you can do to 'em whatever you want.

LIMBAUGH: No.

CALLER 2: Well, why would you call them hos on the national --

LIMBAUGH: Well, because, because I'm running on fumes today, , and I felt terrible about it. And I knew somebody was gonna call and give me a little grief so I'm takin' the occasion of your call to apologize for it. That was, it was a terrible slip of the tongue. I'm sorry. But it wasn't the worst one that has been said recently. You want -- do you know who Keanu Reeves is?

CALLER 2: Yeah, I know who he is. He's an actor.

LIMBAUGH: Well, he's, he's, he's an actor.

CALLER 2: Yeah.

LIMBAUGH: He's a whacko. He's, he's an -- an actor and, he -- what was he doing? He was -- the Women Against Domestic Violence group was already in a dither because Keanu Reeves told an interviewer he learned something filming a rape scene with Hilary Swank for a movie called The Gift. And he said was, what he learned was that some of these ladies don't mind it.

CALLER 2: OK. But --

LIMBAUGH: He said he learned that in a rape scene but -- so, you know, I'm not the worst offender.

CALLER 2: Well, I hope you --

LIMBAUGH: I just, I'm looking at this case down there at Duke, , and it's -- there's some things about it, some inconsistencies. You've got some timeline differentiations and matriculations and, and so forth. I'm just -- but it was, it was terrible slip of the tongue, and I am, I am terribly, I am terribly sorry.

CALLER 2: Well, I was hoping that your animosity for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton wasn't your motivation for calling them hos.

LIMBAUGH: No -- why -- they, they have nothing to do with it.

CALLER 2: Oh, OK. Well, but, I -- it definitely offended me to hear you say that on the national program. The world's largest -- as you say.

LIMBAUGH: Yeah, well --

CALLER 2: But maybe you should take half your brain from behind your back next time.

LIMBAUGH: You know, I'm thinking what I ought to do, , is something that I used to do in the early days of this program and that is spank myself.

CALLER 2: Well, I don't know if that's gonna work. The apology would be good.

LIMBAUGH: I just -- how -- you want me to apologize again? I'm sorry.

CALLER 2: Oh, no, I'm saying -- the apology was good.

LIMBAUGH: I regret that you heard me say it.

-------
It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

  

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ILL FLOW
Member since Nov 16th 2004
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Wed Apr-05-06 01:59 AM

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84. "RE: Limbaugh called alleged Duke rape victim a "ho""
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

ok...he apollogized but...


he MEANT and BELIEVED in everthing he said.

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Thu Apr-06-06 02:46 PM

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88. "oh shit....."
In response to Reply # 84
Thu Apr-06-06 03:18 PM by truekolor

  

          

"white folks is fuckin up in general" (c) Dave Chapelle

"White man come into the projects and kill a black baby, OH we out in the street, in droves, oh the thousands of us I can see em now, ya dig?

But let this dude that's out in front of ya building killing hundreds of ya'll with his drugs, and his guns, and

  

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mcdeezjawns
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206. "Even Rush is right every once in a while huh"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

  

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Queal Jay
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Thu Apr-06-06 04:35 PM

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93. "I've been living under a rock for the last week...."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-06-06 04:37 PM by Queal Jay

  

          

When this story was on ESPN News yesterday, I had no idea that it involved a rape and involved a sista getting raped.

Now after reading the News Obsever, going to the blog and reading this thread...man...I don't know what to feel or say.

This is fucked up on so many levels.

Sexism
Racism
Classism
The wide chasm that exists between rich/privileged/white college students going to an elite school and working class or poor/underprivlidged black college students going to a state sponsored black school.

I don't even know what to say. I'll pray that the sista is cared for and her and her babies are given support to heal psychologically from this terrible crime. And I pray that she receives an unbiased and fair investigation and that the just-us system will bring the real truth to light. I believed she was raped and justice needs to be served.

Anything else I say will only be contributing to the maddening, helpless & bewildered feelings I already have about the state of this fucked up country in 2006...and it won't change anything...so I'd rather send out positivity and love to the sista.

I will say one thing...I don't know how long I can live in this country.

http://www.facebook.com/marquealjordan
http://twitter.com/MarquealJordan
www.marquealjordan.com

  

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Vaiops2wega
Member since Jul 01st 2002
2361 posts
Thu Apr-06-06 09:41 PM

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95. "UPDATE: Duke player suspended for lewd email"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-06-06 09:45 PM by Vaiops2wega

  

          

A player from the Duke lacrosse team was suspended after an email was found in which he tells another player on the team, "...as soon as she walks into the room, cut off her skin," referring to the dancer that was gang raped. These muthafuckas are truly demented. I mean, I knew these dudes weren't right in the head, but goddamn! By the way I didn't say that the dancer was "alledgedly" gang raped because it should be obvious to anyone at this point that the incident did in fact occur. She has cooperated with the prosecution's instense interrogations and a medical exam by doctors concluded that she had tears in her vagina and anus that are indicative of rape. Anyone who still thinks she's faking it are uncle toms or white. This email just confirms my statement of the white man's perverse mentality. These Duke crackas are the Roman men who had gay orgies. These Duke crackas are the soldiers who abused the prisoners at Abu Ghraib. These Duke crackas are Eminem, who sings about raping his mother and killing his wife. These Duke crackas are the soldiers who murdered 500 innocent old men, women, children, and babies in the My Lai massacre. These Duke crackas are the Marines who gang raped a Filipina last November. History doesn't lie.


"He rollin up, face wrinkled up, hands is on his nuts/Yo kid stop frontin' on the ground before you get touched/It's Canada Dry, obsessed with Allah's sun/We want rye, we want it so bad we might cry" - Ghostface Killah


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036652/

I tried to find a url link for the video but I had no luck, so just click on the link above and you can click on the video yourself.

  

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Chike
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Thu Apr-06-06 10:09 PM

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96. "After this thread, I will have a harder time taking Tsetse seriously"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not only did he make the horribly unfounded statement that black men rape white women all the time (most rape is not interracial), he had a problem with the use of the word "racist" in regard to white boys who used racial slurs. He was also stupid enough to question whether we would see race as irrelevant if a black man raped a white woman and used "racial slurs" - some of us might not call it racist (I'm ambivalent on this point), but the rape would have nothing to do with it. Surely it would be seen as antisemitic if those racial slurs included "kike".

The point is: the brotha is mad confused, and I feel sad for him.

  

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Jon
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Fri Apr-07-06 08:44 AM

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100. "that sounds pretty unreasonable to me"
In response to Reply # 96
Fri Apr-07-06 08:47 AM by Jon

  

          

you're so amped about trying to put racism at the forefront of everything involving race, that you flat-out write someone off who happens to think rape is a bigger issue than name-calling

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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Fri Apr-07-06 01:36 PM

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102. "and you just dont want to admit that racism plays a factor"
In response to Reply # 100
Fri Apr-07-06 01:37 PM by truekolor

  

          

in everyday society along with sexism, ableism, classism. However you don't want to admit that both forms of oppression are present, she's a woman and she's black. its all right your sentiments mirror most of white america

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Jon
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Fri Apr-07-06 04:27 PM

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104. "i never said these guys weren't racist or that race didn't play a factor"
In response to Reply # 102
Fri Apr-07-06 04:28 PM by Jon

  

          

putting words in my mouth. my ASSUMPTION (not a concrete one, but my assumption nevertheless) has always been that they probably ARE racist.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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Sat Apr-08-06 06:26 PM

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109. "RE: i never said these guys weren't racist or that race didn't play a fa..."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

see, now you're backtracking and changing your statements

"its not a race thing, its a rape thing."

what does that suppossed to mean? how do you expect people to interpret, your very implication in that statement is that in this case that race/racism is not a factor just rape(which is a sexism issue), which i have already said that you need to understand that both forms of oppression are at play here.

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Chike
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111. "He's playin himself and he needs to stop"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:19 PM

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116. "nah, you are the one playing yourself/authority and need to stop"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

you just dont like what im saying and are abusing your authority as a moderator.

grow up, bro... and if you had such serious challeges to what i said... why make a new sub-thread and dodge what i actually SAID?

no... you would prefer to use straw man arguments and posturing behind your mod status... pretending im the one confused.

  

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Chike
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126. "You can't be serious"
In response to Reply # 116
Sun Apr-09-06 10:01 PM by Chike

  

          

>you just dont like what im saying and are abusing your
>authority as a moderator.

I don't like what you have said - yes, that is true. I explained why. That counts as abuse of authority?

>grow up, bro... and if you had such serious challeges to what
>i said... why make a new sub-thread and dodge what i actually
>SAID?

My explanation of what I didn't like about what you said was direct - there was no dodging. If you think i misquoted you, let me know.

>no... you would prefer to use straw man arguments and
>posturing behind your mod status... pretending im the one
>confused.

Like I said, show me the straw man. And also, don't reply to something that was not about you. I said Jon was playing himself. You did worse, I think. I'd need to read through more replies to find out if he actually beat you with foolishness.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:02 PM

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138. "RE: You can't be serious"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          


>Like I said, show me the straw man.

Your entire argument and making this personal is strawman, precisely because you twist what folks are saying in order to attack a different argument.

You are insincere. YOu are being a fool. You are being immature... and a pathetic excuse for a moderator (you should have just apologized).

  

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Chike
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141. "Assuming you know what a straw man argument is"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

then I'd like to point out that you still haven't shown where I engaged in such a fallacy.

I think the fallacy of which you'd like to accuse me is "ad hominem". This is what I think you mean by saying that I got personal.

Well. I apologize that, in getting heated over your comments, I made it sound like I think you are simply unintelligent. I continue to think that some things that you have said in this thread make you sound unintelligent, but I apologize for saying that that's what you are.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:07 AM

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153. "spare me... (let's review your petty, inflamatory post)"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

>then I'd like to point out that you still haven't shown where
>I engaged in such a fallacy.

You are so full of it, bro. It says volumes about your character that you'd rather have an INSINCERE personal flame war than be honest about what you said... or even respectfully engage the issues.

You are making a mockery of okayplayer.com by behaving this way as a moderator.

Where is the strawman argument? LoL

Let's review your petty post...

>Not only did he make the horribly unfounded statement that
>black men rape white women all the time (most rape is not
>interracial),

They do. Look up the damned facts... black on white rape is unfortunately very common.

The point wasnt to bash black males... but to suggest that maybe AS black males (many of us) we need to be more sincere and sensitive when discussing a matter of RAPE.

More to the point... it's way too convenient to focus on the "racist" slurs we heard about instead of getting outraged about sexual assault.

Your entire personal swipe in this case was a strawman argument, pretending i was claiming something i was not.

>he had a problem with the use of the word
>"racist" in regard to white boys who used racial slurs.

No, i had a problem suggesting this was a case of racism and not focusing on the sexual assault aspect.

Initially all that was reported were statements that some racial slurs were used. I noted that if a black man... raped a white girl... and used racial slurs most of yall wouldnt declare that racially motivated crime.

It seemed very strange to me to make this about racism instead of sexual assault at the time, and i stand by it as more facts have come forth.

The point is... a girl got raped and while the asshats may have been racists... the incident was NOT primarily about race.

If you understood what i was saying, you wouldnt have made this petty strawman argument.

>He
>was also stupid enough to question whether we would see race
>as irrelevant if a black man raped a white woman and used
>"racial slurs" - some of us might not call it racist (I'm
>ambivalent on this point), but the rape would have nothing to
>do with it. Surely it would be seen as antisemitic if those
>racial slurs included "kike".



>The point is: the brotha is mad confused, and I feel sad for
>him.

Nah, im not "mad confused"... and you are being petty and disrespectful on a forum you are supposed to be moderating.

I know you wont admit that... but you are.

  

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Jon
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112. "do you 2 understand the concept of CONTEXT? look here:"
In response to Reply # 109
Sun Apr-09-06 07:42 AM by Jon

  

          

the person i was responding to was specifically talking about the lack of RESPONSE.

and MY point was that LACK OF RESPONSE to *RAPE CASES (only)* is a rape thing, not a race thing. yall are worse than Michael Moore with this cut-and-paste, make people say shit they never said bullshit.

i NEVER said those white boys weren't racist. is it possible they weren't? ummm yeah. its POSSIBLE they were just a bunch of fucked assholes who would have found hurtful words to call whoever they were raped (which is why i haven't CALLED them racists)...BUT, if i had to put any money on it, OF COURSE i would guess that they ARE racist.

but you cats have zero ability to seperate specific points, which means that your ability to even understand what you read, understand the world around you is suspect.

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
1325 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 05:13 PM

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168. "the racism comes in the fact that"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

these white boys at duke are being protected by their white privilege. If they was black, especially since its gettin national attention, they would have been sent up the river the whole country would have been in an uproar. Right now folks are lookin at them like, hey they were just some boys having fun and it got outta hand, whereas if they was black they would have been "see, i told you black guys are violent and dangerous". And you would see the afteraffects, guarantee not too many white girls are going to be walking away white dudes in the street, but if they was black dudes white chicks would shivering whenever they saw a black dude lol. It's true, happens to me all the time.

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 05:30 PM

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169. "Have they released the names of the boys charged?"
In response to Reply # 168


          

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 05:39 PM

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194. "nobody has been charged yet"
In response to Reply # 169
Tue Apr-11-06 05:40 PM by Tsetse

  

          

the allegation is that 3 white males raped her at this party.

they may or may not actually be the lacrosse team.

i hope she picks the 3 guys and they can press charges... because at this rate they wont get a fair trial unless they put some real pressure on these kids and make it clear that anybody lying/covering up evidence will also be charged with obstruction of justice.

the university should also stand up and say any student found not to be cooperating with authorities in this case will be expelled.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 09:44 AM

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185. "i dont disagree on this"
In response to Reply # 168
Tue Apr-11-06 09:45 AM by Tsetse

  

          

>these white boys at duke are being protected by their white
>privilege. If they was black, especially since its gettin
>national attention, they would have been sent up the river the
>whole country would have been in an uproar. Right now folks
>are lookin at them like, hey they were just some boys having
>fun and it got outta hand, whereas if they was black they
>would have been "see, i told you black guys are violent and
>dangerous". And you would see the afteraffects, guarantee not
>too many white girls are going to be walking away white dudes
>in the street, but if they was black dudes white chicks would
>shivering whenever they saw a black dude lol. It's true,
>happens to me all the time.

Indeed, the real racism is coming out in how MEN represent this... focus on her being a stripper and the full gear of denial goes into effect.

Frankly, brothers get away with rape too... so let's realize there is more than ONLY racism at play here.

However, them being duke univ students AND lacross players AND white... all come together to make a much stronger societal desire to believe in their innocence.

More directly...

The fact that the entire team was attacked AS racist, AS rapists... with the coach being removed and the lacross season being cancelled just made shit WORSE.

Now the backlash and racist anger is going to be even greater because the media hyped this so muhc on the "evil white lacross player" angle that everybody lost track of focusing on just 3 white males rapping a female (who is black).

This is all too predictable... and sad.

AND YEA>.. in case i havent been clear... i think black men focusing on the racial aspect of this actually help continue the actual racism in effect here... by not focusing on the sexual assault aspect. Now, i know folks get confused when i say that... but maybe some of them will figure out what i mean eventually.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:33 PM

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121. "all you have are strawman arguments and personal attacks, bro"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

try reasoning and showing some respect

  

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Chike
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Fri Apr-07-06 09:52 PM

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105. "RE: that sounds pretty unreasonable to me"
In response to Reply # 100
Fri Apr-07-06 09:53 PM by Chike

  

          

>you're so amped about trying to put racism at the forefront
>of everything involving race, that you flat-out write someone
>off who happens to think rape is a bigger issue than
>name-calling

I cannot for the life of me figure out how you think using the word "racist" makes it seem like racist name-calling is a bigger issue than rape. I am sure anyone who has been raped by racists would prefer that they were simply called names. YOU are the one putting racism at the forefront if you deny its presence in this case, and you're just silly if you question its presence. How is racist name-calling not racist?

  

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Jon
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Sat Apr-08-06 04:44 PM

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106. "and once again: WHEN did i EVER declare ''no racism'' ?"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

  

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Chike
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107. "I said "if""
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

"if you deny its presence... if you question its presence" ... if you do neither, you're fine. But by supporting Tsetse, you seemed to question its presence.

  

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Jon
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Sun Apr-09-06 08:01 AM

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113. "its obvious you were assuming with this sentence"
In response to Reply # 107
Sun Apr-09-06 08:07 AM by Jon

  

          

"YOU are the one putting racism at the forefront if you deny its presence in this case, and you're just silly if you question its presence. How is racist name-calling not racist?"


you even go so far as to ask me "how is racist name-calling not racist".


and the points i've been defending have only been specific points:

1. how sad it is that rape itself doesn't get anyone here upset and posting, unless someone gets called the 'n' word (or something to do with racism), then its suddenly worthy of being a big deal (on okayplayer as well as the news as well as the public as well as the law enforcement). or if it has to do with celebrity. basically, its sad that rape (which is the worst part about this) isn't even people's real reason for getting amped.

2. when people said "if the races were switched, it would have been a big uproar", that is ONE SPECIFIC point that we wanted to make sure people didn't get carried away with, because reality has proven otherwise.

3. there are males out there who would gang-rape anyone they found attractive and vulnerable (especially if she's in the sex business, like a stripper) and, while raping her, call her every name in the book...that fact makes it very possible that the n-word was only used because she happened to be black (not actually THINKING she's an n-word, but 'merely' wanting to hurt her).

but, to me, my gut tells me they probably thought of her as a less valuable form of female BECAUSE she was black, therefore making them racist. the point is: that's my gut, not fact. it could have been because she was a stripper. strippers are raped constantly and called every name in the book while being raped, because name-calling makes it more fun, not because the rapist has any actual opinion on a race.

BUT i don't even really mind you calling them racist white-boys. they raped a person, spit all over her humanity, so who cares if they get called racists. but i understand how someone might call you out on the subjectivity of it. because we don't know if they're racists, and when a girl is raped, the issue at hand should be rape, not name-calling.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:41 PM

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124. "again, agreed 100% (you said it better than i did)"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>"YOU are the one putting racism at the forefront if you deny
>its presence in this case, and you're just silly if you
>question its presence. How is racist name-calling not
>racist?"
>
>
>you even go so far as to ask me "how is racist name-calling
>not racist".
>
>
>and the points i've been defending have only been specific
>points:
>
>1. how sad it is that rape itself doesn't get anyone here
>upset and posting, unless someone gets called the 'n' word (or
>something to do with racism), then its suddenly worthy of
>being a big deal (on okayplayer as well as the news as well as
>the public as well as the law enforcement). or if it has to do
>with celebrity. basically, its sad that rape (which is the
>worst part about this) isn't even people's real reason for
>getting amped.
>
>2. when people said "if the races were switched, it would have
>been a big uproar", that is ONE SPECIFIC point that we wanted
>to make sure people didn't get carried away with, because
>reality has proven otherwise.
>
>3. there are males out there who would gang-rape anyone they
>found attractive and vulnerable (especially if she's in the
>sex business, like a stripper) and, while raping her, call her
>every name in the book...that fact makes it very possible that
>the n-word was only used because she happened to be black (not
>actually THINKING she's an n-word, but 'merely' wanting to
>hurt her).
>
>but, to me, my gut tells me they probably thought of her as a
>less valuable form of female BECAUSE she was black, therefore
>making them racist. the point is: that's my gut, not fact. it
>could have been because she was a stripper. strippers are
>raped constantly and called every name in the book while being
>raped, because name-calling makes it more fun, not because the
>rapist has any actual opinion on a race.
>
>BUT i don't even really mind you calling them racist
>white-boys. they raped a person, spit all over her humanity,
>so who cares if they get called racists. but i understand how
>someone might call you out on the subjectivity of it. because
>we don't know if they're racists, and when a girl is raped,
>the issue at hand should be rape, not name-calling.

  

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Chike
Charter member
32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:16 PM

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127. "RE: its obvious you were assuming with this sentence"
In response to Reply # 113
Sun Apr-09-06 10:19 PM by Chike

  

          

>"YOU are the one putting racism at the forefront if you deny
>its presence in this case, and you're just silly if you
>question its presence. How is racist name-calling not
>racist?"
>
>
>you even go so far as to ask me "how is racist name-calling
>not racist".
>
>
>and the points i've been defending have only been specific
>points:
>
>1. how sad it is that rape itself doesn't get anyone here
>upset and posting, unless someone gets called the 'n' word (or
>something to do with racism), then its suddenly worthy of
>being a big deal (on okayplayer as well as the news as well as
>the public as well as the law enforcement). or if it has to do
>with celebrity. basically, its sad that rape (which is the
>worst part about this) isn't even people's real reason for
>getting amped.

If you take a racial incident and try to cut race out of it, you look stupid. Rape is a humungous issue and it should be talked about. How to make it happen less should be important to everybody. If you take a case of rape that someone has brought up and try to reduce it to something less horrible than what it was, you look stupid. This was a case of rape that also involved the dynamic of race. It's that simple.

>2. when people said "if the races were switched, it would have
>been a big uproar", that is ONE SPECIFIC point that we wanted
>to make sure people didn't get carried away with, because
>reality has proven otherwise.
>
>3. there are males out there who would gang-rape anyone they
>found attractive and vulnerable (especially if she's in the
>sex business, like a stripper) and, while raping her, call her
>every name in the book...that fact makes it very possible that
>the n-word was only used because she happened to be black (not
>actually THINKING she's an n-word, but 'merely' wanting to
>hurt her).

What the hell are you talking about? Not thinking she is a nigger? Do you know what a nigger is? Obviously not. Guess what? "Nigger" is a derogatory term for black people. You cannot use the word nigger, refer to a black person, and not think you actually meant to call that black person a black person!!! Again, you look stupid when you try to reduce something complicated to less than its totality (as well as when you show yourself to be unaware of what racist terms mean).

>but, to me, my gut tells me they probably thought of her as a
>less valuable form of female BECAUSE she was black, therefore
>making them racist. the point is: that's my gut, not fact. it
>could have been because she was a stripper. strippers are
>raped constantly and called every name in the book while being
>raped, because name-calling makes it more fun, not because the
>rapist has any actual opinion on a race.

They knew she was black. They expressed their opinion of black people by using racial slurs. Why all the extraneous wondering?

>BUT i don't even really mind you calling them racist
>white-boys. they raped a person, spit all over her humanity,
>so who cares if they get called racists. but i understand how
>someone might call you out on the subjectivity of it. because
>we don't know if they're racists, and when a girl is raped,
>the issue at hand should be rape, not name-calling.

No sane person is interested in wondering whether people who use racial slurs against black people have respect for black people or not. The rape only comes out of focus when you and Tsetse try to take race, an obvious factor, out of the equation.

They don't have to hunt black girls on a regular basis to be racist.

All they need to be is what they are: people in a society whose history is characterized by the oppression of black people, and who reveal by words and action that they are down with such oppression.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:24 PM

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130. "again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          


>No sane person is interested in wondering whether people who
>use racial slurs against black people have respect for black
>people or not. The rape only comes out of focus when you and
>Tsetse try to take race, an obvious factor, out of the
>equation.

Again, all you have are straw-man arguments and childish personal attacks... entirely missing the point.

We arent saying that.

You just dont want to stop acting the fool and dodging the core fact that rape is what happened.

These 3 guys are to be charged and tried on rape, kidnapping and robbery... not a hate crime.

You can keep being self-righteous and making this personal, but you only show your inability to be objective (or for that matter the maturity to be a sound moderator of discussion).

You onyl respond with the same old BS argument that entirely dodges what we've actually been saying...

  

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Chike
Charter member
32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:41 PM

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134. "RE: again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

>
>>No sane person is interested in wondering whether people who
>>use racial slurs against black people have respect for black
>>people or not. The rape only comes out of focus when you
>and
>>Tsetse try to take race, an obvious factor, out of the
>>equation.
>
>Again, all you have are straw-man arguments and childish
>personal attacks... entirely missing the point.
>
>We arent saying that.
>
>You just dont want to stop acting the fool and dodging the
>core fact that rape is what happened.

NOBODY CAN DODGE THE FACT THAT RAPE HAPPENED IN DISCUSSING A RAPE CASE. I can't make that any clearer for you. It's a rape case. You can't dodge rape in discussing a rape case.

>These 3 guys are to be charged and tried on rape, kidnapping
>and robbery... not a hate crime.

That is not of huge concern to me. But if you're blind to why the case clearly fits the "hate crime" bill, just like beating up a gay person while calling them "faggot" does, I don't understand you.

>You can keep being self-righteous and making this personal,
>but you only show your inability to be objective (or for that
>matter the maturity to be a sound moderator of discussion).
>
>You onyl respond with the same old BS argument that entirely
>dodges what we've actually been saying...

If you've been offended by me, understand that it's cuz what you said offended me first and that may have shown in my comments. I'm offended that someone cares so little about a rape victim's feelings as to downplay the fact that her rapists called her racial slurs.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:04 PM

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140. "RE: again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          


>If you've been offended by me, understand that it's cuz what
>you said offended me first and that may have shown in my
>comments. I'm offended that someone cares so little about a
>rape victim's feelings as to downplay the fact that her
>rapists called her racial slurs.

You misunderstood what i said... took offense and then decided to go on a personal attack instead of responding maturely to what i said.

And please... spare me your ploys suggesting im not sensitive to what this girl experienced.

Are you even a minority? I'm starting to think you are prolly an upper-class white boy who've never experienced racism in his life... cuz you talk a good game but yet here you are attackign a brother... defending a sister... a brother who's seen more than his fair share of racism yet you continue to posture like a fool.

  

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Chike
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32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:17 PM

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143. "RE: again, you are just full of it trying to play higher-than-thou"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

>
>>If you've been offended by me, understand that it's cuz what
>>you said offended me first and that may have shown in my
>>comments. I'm offended that someone cares so little about a
>>rape victim's feelings as to downplay the fact that her
>>rapists called her racial slurs.
>
>You misunderstood what i said... took offense and then decided
>to go on a personal attack instead of responding maturely to
>what i said.
>
>And please... spare me your ploys suggesting im not sensitive
>to what this girl experienced.
>
>Are you even a minority? I'm starting to think you are prolly
>an upper-class white boy who've never experienced racism in
>his life... cuz you talk a good game but yet here you are
>attackign a brother... defending a sister... a brother who's
>seen more than his fair share of racism yet you continue to
>posture like a fool.

I'm a bit too globally minded to use the term "minority" as a way to designate my identity, but yes, the red, black, and green in my avatar is there cuz I'm black. You did not defend the sister. You criticized other people for talking about race. Your personal experience with racism is important to understanding you as a person, but not important to having a position on your original comments. You have not been focused on the sister's interests, because your concern for her has taken the form of reacting to people's use of the term "racism"... I do see that you INTEND to focus on her interests. But this back-and-forth with me has not been part of that. Insofar as I've tried to show an intention on my own part to have people focus on her interests, I've simply tried to imply that people should stop trying to ask that the R-word not be mentioned and instead discuss the case in all its complexity.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:20 PM

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145. "more higher-than-thou posturing"
In response to Reply # 143
Sun Apr-09-06 11:24 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>I'm a bit too globally minded to use the term "minority" as a
>way to designate my identity, but yes, the red, black, and
>green in my avatar is there cuz I'm black. You did not defend
>the sister. You criticized other people for talking about
>race. Your personal experience with racism is important to
>understanding you as a person, but not important to having a
>position on your original comments. You have not been focused
>on the sister's interests, because your concern for her has
>taken the form of reacting to people's use of the term
>"racism"... I do see that you INTEND to focus on her
>interests. But this back-and-forth with me has not been part
>of that. Insofar as I've tried to show an intention on my own
>part to have people focus on her interests, I've simply tried
>to imply that people should stop trying to ask that the R-word
>not be mentioned and instead discuss the case in all its
>complexity.

If you were sincere and interested in focusing on her interests, you wouldnt have done so by making a petty thread attacking me for trying to have people more clearly acknowledge the sexual assault.

I have been focused on the sister's interest... you just refuse to admit it because you are not objective and have a personal beef.

Grow up, bro.

DOES IT SURPRISE YOU... or make you rethink your BS that the FIRST response to your petty post was that you were being unreasonable?

Have you even once for a moment considered: "hey wow, maybe i am being unreasonable in attacking this guy? Maybe i misunderstood his point."

Nah... heaven forbid...

KEEP IT UP... just keep it up...

  

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Chike
Charter member
32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:36 PM

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147. "RE: more higher-than-thou posturing"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

>>I'm a bit too globally minded to use the term "minority" as
>a
>>way to designate my identity, but yes, the red, black, and
>>green in my avatar is there cuz I'm black. You did not
>defend
>>the sister. You criticized other people for talking about
>>race. Your personal experience with racism is important to
>>understanding you as a person, but not important to having a
>>position on your original comments. You have not been
>focused
>>on the sister's interests, because your concern for her has
>>taken the form of reacting to people's use of the term
>>"racism"... I do see that you INTEND to focus on her
>>interests. But this back-and-forth with me has not been
>part
>>of that. Insofar as I've tried to show an intention on my
>own
>>part to have people focus on her interests, I've simply
>tried
>>to imply that people should stop trying to ask that the
>R-word
>>not be mentioned and instead discuss the case in all its
>>complexity.
>
>If you were sincere and interested in focusing on her
>interests, you wouldnt have done so by making a petty thread
>attacking me for trying to have people more clearly
>acknowledge the sexual assault.

I made a reply that indicated how silly I think it is that you think people aren't focused on the sexual assault. So, yeah, I was focused on you and your contribution. Like I said, to the extent that I've tried to show an intention to have people focus on her interests, it's been in trying to show how you are wrong to be so invested in downplaying the racial aspect. Again, nobody can forget that it's a rape case. They can ask people, as you have, to not talk about the racial aspect. But they can't forget it's a sexual assault that occurred.

>I have been focused on the sister's interest... you just
>refuse to admit it because you are not objective and have a
>personal beef.

Nah... I don't know you enough to have a personal beef with you. I made a comment, admittedly harsh, about how your comments in this thread would affect my seeing you in other threads from now on.

>Grow up, bro.
>
>DOES IT SURPRISE YOU... or make you rethink your BS that the
>FIRST response to your petty post was that you were being
>unreasonable?

How could it surprise me given the rest of that poster's contributions to the thread?

>Have you even once for a moment considered: "hey wow, maybe i
>am being unreasonable in attacking this guy? Maybe i
>misunderstood his point."
>
>Nah... heaven forbid...
>
>KEEP IT UP... just keep it up...

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:17 AM

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157. "more strawmen argument"
In response to Reply # 147
Mon Apr-10-06 12:21 AM by Tsetse

  

          

my point isnt that discussing race in this incident is inherently to undermine and downplay the aspect of rape. that is yet another strawman argument... and you keep repeating it as if i havent responded to that concern.

you are the one making strawman arguments when you think my suggesting this is primarily about RAPE and not racism... is to deny any racial dimension to this.

my point is that this case isnt about RACE and is about sexual assault, and that we need to not focus on the racial slurs which were initially reported... and to get outraged about the RAPE.

- Every 2.5 minutes a woman is sexually assaulted in america

- 1 in 6 american women have been the victim of attempted or completed rape.

- In 2003 there were 204,370 reported rapes in america

- 60% of rapes are from acquaintances or intimates/relatives. 31% are committed by complete strangers.

- Black women have an 18.8% rate of rape/attempted rape, with white woman at 17.7% (mixed race are 24.4%). The actual % of rape victims who are black is 13.3%

- 82.5% of all rape victims are white.

How many black males rape white women every year?
How many white males rape black women every year?

Guess why im asking those questions? NOT to focus on race... but to focus on the urgent need to be open and honest about sexual assault.

To me, the real racism in this case involves the media, the investigation and the potential that this rape will go unpunished...

If you disagree... fine, but try to do so respectfully and without being a punk.

  

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Brooklynbeef
Member since May 30th 2002
4649 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 06:00 PM

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170. "word"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          


Tsetse,




Is wasting his energy by attacking those in this thread who point out the blatant and not so blatant white racist overtones of this incident rather than the attackers themselves -- as though rape is is not intrisically a political act as though rape has not been used in this country's recent and distant past as a vehicle of racism, ethnic cleansing or imperialism, but what is imperialism but rape in a global context.


>>
>>>If you've been offended by me, understand that it's cuz
>what
>>>you said offended me first and that may have shown in my
>>>comments. I'm offended that someone cares so little about
>a
>>>rape victim's feelings as to downplay the fact that her
>>>rapists called her racial slurs.
>>
>>You misunderstood what i said... took offense and then
>decided
>>to go on a personal attack instead of responding maturely to
>>what i said.
>>
>>And please... spare me your ploys suggesting im not
>sensitive
>>to what this girl experienced.
>>
>>Are you even a minority? I'm starting to think you are
>prolly
>>an upper-class white boy who've never experienced racism in
>>his life... cuz you talk a good game but yet here you are
>>attackign a brother... defending a sister... a brother who's
>>seen more than his fair share of racism yet you continue to
>>posture like a fool.
>
>I'm a bit too globally minded to use the term "minority" as a
>way to designate my identity, but yes, the red, black, and
>green in my avatar is there cuz I'm black. You did not defend
>the sister. You criticized other people for talking about
>race. Your personal experience with racism is important to
>understanding you as a person, but not important to having a
>position on your original comments. You have not been focused
>on the sister's interests, because your concern for her has
>taken the form of reacting to people's use of the term
>"racism"... I do see that you INTEND to focus on her
>interests. But this back-and-forth with me has not been part
>of that. Insofar as I've tried to show an intention on my own
>part to have people focus on her interests, I've simply tried
>to imply that people should stop trying to ask that the R-word
>not be mentioned and instead discuss the case in all its
>complexity.

"Forget Black History Month, how about live an African History Life"-Ansley Burrows

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:34 PM

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122. "you dont even understand the issues"
In response to Reply # 105
Sun Apr-09-06 09:35 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>How is racist name-calling not racist?

another strawman argument.

you want to get personal but you dont even understand the person's argument.

very mature and objective, bro.

  

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Chike
Charter member
32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:22 PM

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129. "You asked why they're racist"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

"How is racist name-calling not racist?" is a normal response to such a bizarre query. Unless, of course, you don't think white people who abuse a black woman and call her racial slurs have engaged in racist name-calling.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:27 PM

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131. "and you missed the point and then got inflamatory"
In response to Reply # 129
Sun Apr-09-06 10:35 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>"How is racist name-calling not racist?" is a normal response
>to such a bizarre query. Unless, of course, you don't think
>white people who abuse a black woman and call her racial slurs
>have engaged in racist name-calling.

i asked why folks said they were racist to point out all we initially had was claims of some racial slurs... and meanwhile a WOMAN was brutally raped.

there WAS no evidence this was a racial hate crime. there IS no evidence this was a hate crime. this was a god damned sexual assault. they happen every god damn day and i think cats like you only seem to care when you get to yap about racism.

it turns out... bro... o-objective moderator... that the racial slurs were stated during her EXOTIC DANCING performance in front of a party of some 40 drunk white males.

the rape was committed later by 3 guys after she and her friend/colleague came back inside (being pissed about the racial slurs).

nobody is saying race and priviledge arent involved in this... but i think it's absurd to continue being a total inflamatory asshole to those of us trying to say "chill" and to focus on the sexual assault side of this.

but if you want to insist on getting personal, then tell me how many woman YOU PERSONALLY KNOW who have been raped.

start there, o-objective moderator... cuz frankly you trying to suggest im unaware of racism in society is gonna make you look like a fool... and i personally think you are just another male who doesnt fully appreciate how serious a matter sexual assault is on its own terms.

HINT: ive gone toe-to-toe with KKK fucks in the woods AND locker rooms. ive been beaten by cops in a racial incident. ive spent decade working on phd in sociology and spent years working in education reform... so you better check yourself before you come at me some more with your personal attacks... cuz you dont know me.

  

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Chike
Charter member
32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:53 PM

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135. "RE: and you missed the point and then got inflamatory"
In response to Reply # 131
Sun Apr-09-06 10:53 PM by Chike

  

          

>>"How is racist name-calling not racist?" is a normal
>response
>>to such a bizarre query. Unless, of course, you don't think
>>white people who abuse a black woman and call her racial
>slurs
>>have engaged in racist name-calling.
>
>i asked why folks said they were racist to point out all we
>initially had was claims of some racial slurs... and meanwhile
>a WOMAN was brutally raped.
>
>there WAS no evidence this was a racial hate crime. there IS
>no evidence this was a hate crime. this was a god damned
>sexual assault. they happen every god damn day and i think
>cats like you only seem to care when you get to yap about
>racism.

How do YOU measure my caring about rape? By whether I reply to a post? You're inside my brain enough to know whether or not I worry about the women in my life, of whatever background, because some man, of whatever background, may try to take advantage of them?

I read the post and was saddened and shocked by the incident. I saw you trying to make it out to be less than what it was. If "it turns out" that the ones who raped her weren't the ones who called her names, just their associates, I think the racial aspect is still clear, even if less than before.

>it turns out... bro... o-objective moderator... that the
>racial slurs were stated during her EXOTIC DANCING performance
>in front of a party of some 40 drunk white males.
>
>the rape was committed later by 3 guys after she and her
>friend/colleague came back inside (being pissed about the
>racial slurs).
>
>nobody is saying race and priviledge arent involved in this...
>but i think it's absurd to continue being a total inflamatory
>asshole to those of us trying to say "chill" and to focus on
>the sexual assault side of this.

No - stop saying "chill" and just do the focusing you want to do. This is a message board, and it can be used to comment or to suggest plans of action. If your notion of focusing on the sexual assault part means coming up with a plan of action in regard to the problem of sexual assault, DO THAT. You DO NOT need to ask people to downplay race in an incident "in which race and privilege are involved" in order to do so.

>but if you want to insist on getting personal, then tell me
>how many woman YOU PERSONALLY KNOW who have been raped.
>
>start there, o-objective moderator... cuz frankly you trying
>to suggest im unaware of racism in society is gonna make you
>look like a fool... and i personally think you are just
>another male who doesnt fully appreciate how serious a matter
>sexual assault is on its own terms.

You have ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS for that view. The fact that I comment on a comment which I think unnecessarily downplays race says nothing about what I think about sexual assault. I personally think it's one of the heinous crimes in existence. And I gather that you think men don't think about it enough, and therefore don't realize how serious and how widespread a problem it is. I agree with that.

>HINT: ive gone toe-to-toe with KKK fucks in the woods AND
>locker rooms. ive been beaten by cops in a racial incident.
>ive spent decade working on phd in sociology and spent years
>working in education reform... so you better check yourself
>before you come at me some more with your personal attacks...
>cuz you dont know me.

I guess you think me wondering how you could define the use of racial slurs in a rape incident as not racist is a personal attack. It's not. It's a question. Show me where I said anything that assumes I know you and the ways in which racism has affected your life. I did what people do on message boards - I commented on your comments, and that's all.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:01 PM

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137. "RE: and you missed the point and then got inflamatory"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          


>I guess you think me wondering how you could define the use of
>racial slurs in a rape incident as not racist is a personal
>attack. It's not. It's a question. Show me where I said
>anything that assumes I know you and the ways in which racism
>has affected your life. I did what people do on message
>boards - I commented on your comments, and that's all.

Maybe you should instead wonder about your own attitude and need to attack people for suggesting your squarely focus on the RAPE aspect of this instead of the RACIAL aspect?

Again, you missed the point and are trying to defend your petty personal attacks.

YOu need to get honest with yourself and your e-behavior.

  

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Chike
Charter member
32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:41 PM

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148. "RE: and you missed the point and then got inflamatory"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

>
>>I guess you think me wondering how you could define the use
>of
>>racial slurs in a rape incident as not racist is a personal
>>attack. It's not. It's a question. Show me where I said
>>anything that assumes I know you and the ways in which
>racism
>>has affected your life. I did what people do on message
>>boards - I commented on your comments, and that's all.
>
>Maybe you should instead wonder about your own attitude and
>need to attack people for suggesting your squarely focus on
>the RAPE aspect of this instead of the RACIAL aspect?
>
>Again, you missed the point and are trying to defend your
>petty personal attacks.
>
>YOu need to get honest with yourself and your e-behavior.

I'm done with you. If you could keep up the work you're doing by posting new info but leave out the continuing MISrepresentations of people in this thread as not caring about rape, you'll go far.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:11 AM

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156. "i stand by my claims... and my self-defense against BS"
In response to Reply # 148
Mon Apr-10-06 12:14 AM by Tsetse

  

          

>I'm done with you. If you could keep up the work you're doing
>by posting new info but leave out the continuing
>MISrepresentations of people in this thread as not caring
>about rape, you'll go far.

and yet you dont seem to be bothered by the people who flamed me, attacked me... even called me a "negress" and pretended i was defending white guys by merely saying we need to not get distracted by the racial slurs in this case.

right... ok...

  

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Chike
Charter member
32255 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:17 AM

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158. "RE: i stand by my claims... and my self-defense against BS"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

>>I'm done with you. If you could keep up the work you're
>doing
>>by posting new info but leave out the continuing
>>MISrepresentations of people in this thread as not caring
>>about rape, you'll go far.
>
>and yet you dont seem to be bothered by the people who flamed
>me, attacked me... even called me a "negress" and pretended i
>was defending white guys by merely saying we need to not get
>distracted by the racial slurs in this case.

Feel free to inbox Firebrand about any name-calling complaints you might have. I *would* say "either me or Firebrand" but I understand that in the case of this thread, you feel I am part of the "flaming".

>right... ok...

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:27 AM

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159. "RE: i stand by my claims... and my self-defense against BS"
In response to Reply # 158
Mon Apr-10-06 12:29 AM by Tsetse

  

          

oh, how honorable of you...

how about you try to be more respectful and sincere in the future... before you jump into personal attacks with people you do not know (and you didnt honorably address what i said either).

in case you missed it...

im a doctoral student in sociology + years working in real education reform.

ive gone toe-to-toe with actual KKK fucks in lockerooms and in the woods.

ive been assaulted by police in racial incidents.

i dont need lectures from you about being "aware" of racism.

in this case, i felt the need to demand folks not take the convenient road to cry about racists and to instead focus on the primary matter of sexism/sexual assault.

i have been attacked by all kinds of people (males) on this thread for demanding we back down from the race riots... and instead have a rape riot... and i was attacked by YOU, a moderator.

- Every 2.5 minutes a woman is sexually assaulted in america

- 1 in 6 american women have been the victim of attempted or completed rape.

- In 2003 there were 204,370 reported rapes in america (not counting the 42% of rapes assumed not to be reported)

- 60% of rapes are from acquaintances or intimates/relatives. 31% are committed by complete strangers.

- Black women have an 18.8% rate of rape/attempted rape, with white woman at 17.7% (mixed race are 24.4%). The actual % of rape victims who are black is 13.3%

- 82.5% of all rape victims are white.

How many black-on-white rapes are there every year?
How many white-on-black rapes are there every year?

We need to get serious about sexual assault... and a few racial slurs during a rape incident does NOT deminish the primary horror of sexual assault in america.

This issue of rape cannot be washed away by cries regarding racism and white priviledge.

If you agree, fine... dont yell at me.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:20 PM

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117. "exactly, then he personally attacks me as a moderator... amazing"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:15 PM

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114. "i see how it is... attack people instead of using reason"
In response to Reply # 96
Sun Apr-09-06 09:17 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>Not only did he make the horribly unfounded statement that
>black men rape white women all the time (most rape is not
>interracial), he had a problem with the use of the word
>"racist" in regard to white boys who used racial slurs. He
>was also stupid enough to question whether we would see race
>as irrelevant if a black man raped a white woman and used
>"racial slurs" - some of us might not call it racist (I'm
>ambivalent on this point), but the rape would have nothing to
>do with it. Surely it would be seen as antisemitic if those
>racial slurs included "kike".
>
>The point is: the brotha is mad confused, and I feel sad for
>him.

I see how it is oh-objective-Admin brother. Now i see what you are REALLY about here.



I doubt you'd talk so self-righteously in person especially if you showed even the least interest in actually listening to what im saying...





I actually am standing up for WOMEN in this thread, saying not to confuse issues... and even you... a moderator have the need to make a seperate personal attack of ME (not my arguments). I find it astounding that even you... oh-objective moderator... feel the need to make a personal attack on a guy who is merely trying to suggest this case doesnt boil down to a matter of RACE.

Indeed, black men do rape white women. I'm sorry you take offense to that fact and miss the point. It is not an attack on black men but merely pointing out that rape doesnt boil down to matters of RACE.

Indeed, it is IRRELEVANT that black men rape white women... in the sense that a woman is getting raped.

The racial slurs used in this case to not MAKE IT A RACIAL INCIDENT above it being a case of rape.

Is that so hard for you MEN to acknowlege?

  

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Chike
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Sun Apr-09-06 10:31 PM

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132. "RE: i see how it is... attack people instead of using reason"
In response to Reply # 114
Sun Apr-09-06 10:32 PM by Chike

  

          

>>Not only did he make the horribly unfounded statement that
>>black men rape white women all the time (most rape is not
>>interracial), he had a problem with the use of the word
>>"racist" in regard to white boys who used racial slurs. He
>>was also stupid enough to question whether we would see race
>>as irrelevant if a black man raped a white woman and used
>>"racial slurs" - some of us might not call it racist (I'm
>>ambivalent on this point), but the rape would have nothing
>to
>>do with it. Surely it would be seen as antisemitic if those
>>racial slurs included "kike".
>>
>>The point is: the brotha is mad confused, and I feel sad for
>>him.
>
>I see how it is oh-objective-Admin brother. Now i see what
>you are REALLY about here.
>
>
>
>I doubt you'd talk so self-righteously in person especially if
>you showed even the least interest in actually listening to
>what im saying...
>
>
>
>
>
>I actually am standing up for WOMEN in this thread, saying not
>to confuse issues... and even you... a moderator have the need
>to make a seperate personal attack of ME (not my arguments).
>I find it astounding that even you... oh-objective
>moderator... feel the need to make a personal attack on a guy
>who is merely trying to suggest this case doesnt boil down to
>a matter of RACE.

What does it take for something to boil down to race? Would they have had to kill her and etch the racial slurs into her body? There is NOBODY here who took RAPE out of the equation. You have been on a campaign to downplay the race aspect, which is, to me, a move that does nothing but distract from the rape aspect you seem so concerned with.

>Indeed, black men do rape white women. I'm sorry you take
>offense to that fact and miss the point. It is not an attack
>on black men but merely pointing out that rape doesnt boil
>down to matters of RACE.

You claim I make straw man arguments and then you misquote me, when I correctly quoted you in stating my point. Hmm. Who the hell thinks all rape boils down to what race the people were??? Why is it that you would be upset if a South Asian person who was raped and called a "dirty paki" felt that the incident had racism as one component of its horribleness?

>Indeed, it is IRRELEVANT that black men rape white women... in
>the sense that a woman is getting raped.

Irrelevant to this topic, that's for sure.

>The racial slurs used in this case to not MAKE IT A RACIAL
>INCIDENT above it being a case of rape.

This sentence makes no sense to me. Assuming you meant "do" instead of "to", the comment is still crazy. The racial slurs make it a racial incident, that much is clear to anyone with a brain. You're interested in the question of whether it is a racial incident above being a case of rape. Your interest is unintelligible, from my perspective - how can the rape drop out and the racial part become what matters? If the rape drops out, it's not a "racial incident" - it's no longer the incident that it is! If you're not following me, maybe it's because...

>Is that so hard for you MEN to acknowlege?

...I can't acknowledge what I don't understand. Your "race-above-race" discussion makes no sense to me.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:45 PM

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149. "here are some rape stats for you"
In response to Reply # 132
Sun Apr-09-06 11:48 PM by Tsetse

  

          

oh right, you are above apologies...

Let me be more clear.

A black stripper goes to a party at a house full of 40 white drunken college students. During the performance, some scream racial slurs.

She and her colleague/friend apparently leave in this heated context. Racism? Yea... but not the story.

She then goes back into this party... to continue performing.

At some point soon afterwards, she obviously ran into the bathroom and eventually was sexually assaulted there.

LET'S PUT THE SHIT IN CONTEXT (including race, class and sexism)

- Every 2.5 minutes a woman is sexually assaulted in america

- 1 in 6 american women have been the victim of attempted or completed rape.

- In 2003 there were 204,370 reported rapes in america

- 60% of rapes are from acquaintances or intimates/relatives. 31% are committed by complete strangers.

- Black women have an 18.8% rate of rape/attempted rape, with white woman at 17.7% (mixed race are 24.4%). The actual % of rape victims who are black is 13.3%

- 82.5% of all rape victims are white.

Many/most rape victims are permantly messed up and traumatized by the experience. It's utterly horrible and cannot be dodged or twisted into something else.

Ask yourselves how many white men rape black women every year. Ask yourselves how many black men rape white women every year.

Go ahead... now look up the statistics. They oughta make you sick and frustrated (not to deny a lot of white boys will get away with THEIR rapes). The scary truth is... a lot of brothers ARE raping white women.

I dont say to ask that to bash blacks. I say that to GET REAL about the reality of sexual assault in america. And in my opinion black/latinos really, really most need to be upfront/honest on this very intense and vital matter.

That is why i think it's wrong to jump onto the racial slurs (as a bunch of GUYS on an internet forum)... without really, really focusing on the fact that another sister got brutally raped.

I dare you to be as angry about every case of rape in america.

Again, im not trying to downplay race or racism. I'm trying to focus folks on the subject of rape before they go to what they are more comfortable yelling about.

  

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Chike
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Mon Apr-10-06 12:00 AM

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151. "You already got your apology from me (maybe you forgot)"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

and you put me in a weird position by bringing up useful information and asking people to be concerned about the reality of sexual assault while trying to make a point against my original contribution to this thread.

Also, remember that your description of the incident is not based on what I read in the original post. Like I said, I don't think the new description makes race irrelevant in the slightest, but it's not what the original poster reacted to the case by using the word that got you so upset in the first place: "racist".

I find it strange that you provided so many stats without providing the stats for what I questioned you on - the amount of interracial rape that is black man/white woman. I'm not sure you have yet been honest about how this sounded in the way you originally put it

Finally, let's go to the end of your comments...

>oh right, you are above apologies...
>
>Let me be more clear.
>
>A black stripper goes to a party at a house full of 40 white
>drunken college students. During the performance, some scream
>racial slurs.
>
>She and her colleague/friend apparently leave in this heated
>context. Racism? Yea... but not the story.
>
>She then goes back into this party... to continue performing.
>
>
>At some point soon afterwards, she obviously ran into the
>bathroom and eventually was sexually assaulted there.
>
>LET'S PUT THE SHIT IN CONTEXT (including race, class and
>sexism)
>
>- Every 2.5 minutes a woman is sexually assaulted in america
>
>- 1 in 6 american women have been the victim of attempted or
>completed rape.
>
>- In 2003 there were 204,370 reported rapes in america
>
>- 60% of rapes are from acquaintances or intimates/relatives.
>31% are committed by complete strangers.
>
>- Black women have an 18.8% rate of rape/attempted rape, with
>white woman at 17.7% (mixed race are 24.4%). The actual % of
>rape victims who are black is 13.3%
>
>- 82.5% of all rape victims are white.
>
>Many/most rape victims are permantly messed up and traumatized
>by the experience. It's utterly horrible and cannot be dodged
>or twisted into something else.
>
>Ask yourselves how many white men rape black women every year.
> Ask yourselves how many black men rape white women every
>year.
>
>Go ahead... now look up the statistics. They oughta make you
>sick and frustrated (not to deny a lot of white boys will get
>away with THEIR rapes). The scary truth is... a lot of
>brothers ARE raping white women.
>
>I dont say to ask that to bash blacks. I say that to GET REAL
>about the reality of sexual assault in america. And in my
>opinion black/latinos really, really most need to be
>upfront/honest on this very intense and vital matter.
>
>That is why i think it's wrong to jump onto the racial slurs
>(as a bunch of GUYS on an internet forum)... without really,
>really focusing on the fact that another sister got brutally
>raped.
>
>I dare you to be as angry about every case of rape in
>america.
>
>Again, im not trying to downplay race or racism. I'm trying
>to focus folks on the subject of rape before they go to what
>they are more comfortable yelling about.

I challenge you again to look at what came before you started the "is-it-about-racism?" discussion. People talked about the specific situation of privileged college athletes who get away with this kind of horribleness. And given that this is what the case is about, as well as having racial aspects, that is a reasonable topic!

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:10 AM

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155. "apology not accepted, sorry"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

too little, too late.

noted for the future, too...

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
33049 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 09:24 PM

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118. "Co-Sign"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          


"I am the ballot in ya box, the bullet in the gun, the innerglow that lets you know to call your brother sun..." © Asheru

"Knowledge:.. when the mind accepts facts, on this plane of living, knowledge be the key black..." © Q-Tip

http://www.packing.org

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:21 PM

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128. "meanwhile... authorities and duke do nothing"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Apr-09-06 10:21 PM by Tsetse

  

          

Ask yourselves what you think should happen to these Duke students affiliated with the incident?

Alleged crimes: first-degree forcible rape, first degree kidnapping, first-degree sexual offense, common law robbery and felonious strangulation.

Should those charges be dropped and replaced with racial "hate crime"? I DONT THINK SO.

More facts have come out in this case and it's a disgrace how Duke and the local authorities have handled it, but it's predictable given it's a case of sexual assault (with white jocks involved).

This is how i understand the story:

It seems this girl (27 years old) was a NCCU college student and a mother. She was an "escort" and apperently went to the party in the position to be an exotic dancer. She claimed this was her first time doing exotic dance (true or not, it doesnt fuckin matter... but she's gonna get herself in trouble if she's caught lying about any details).

These drunken assholes likely thought they were gonna live their wildest internet porn fantasies, and when two black girls showed up... things got out of control. Statements indicate 40 some white males were involved in this party.

The racial slurs happened while they were dancing... and the 2 girls left, but were convinced to come back and finish. Soon afterwards the one girl was dragged into a bathroom, beaten, sexually assaulted as she tried to fight back. I dont know what happened to the other girl, but the main victim was taken to the hospital hours later. Hospital reports indicate a very brutal rape including near strangulation. They also allegedly stole $400 and various other shit from her. The latest report is that 3 asssailants were involved.

How many rapes take place in american colleges every weekend? Hmmm?

My point is that this type of shit is disgustingly common...

ANYWAYS... so now it's come out that she was a "stripper" and apparently in this case she was to some extent, which is a horrible blow to her integrity and the case for justice. Even if she was a church girl who had never worn anything by a turtle-neck... this type of shit is often hard to prove.

And the police waiting TWO DAYS before even getting a warrant to investigate the fuckin house... saying they didnt have probably cause.

So, we have no charges and no penalties from the Duke authorities at this time.

Meanwhile, folks on forums such as this want to emphasize the racial slurs instead of the fact that yet another woman was brutally raped and the guys might get away with it.

People need to rally around this girl... not merely cuz the assholes who did this were arrogant, pretty white boys from Duke... but because folks need to stand up to sexual assault... especially when committed by the more priviledged in society.

  

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Chike
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32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:35 PM

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133. "Remain concerned with the sexual assault"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

while not asking people to downplay the racial aspect, and you will have everybody on your side. if the racism aspect doesn't matter to you but you're still concerned that someone got raped, you can make points and have people agree with you as long as you don't expect them to not care about racism like you.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 10:54 PM

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136. "nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

>while not asking people to downplay the racial aspect, and
>you will have everybody on your side. if the racism aspect
>doesn't matter to you but you're still concerned that someone
>got raped, you can make points and have people agree with you
>as long as you don't expect them to not care about racism like
>you.

Nice try, but im not asking people to "downplay" the racial aspect.

You are just overplaying it... acting inflamatory and showing you dont take the sexual assault aspect seriously in the first place.

Yea, dont try to front with me after your behavior on this thread without an apology, cuz you are full of it.

SAying i dont care about racism is petty and ignorant. Grow up.

  

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Chike
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32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:04 PM

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139. "RE: nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

>>while not asking people to downplay the racial aspect, and
>>you will have everybody on your side. if the racism aspect
>>doesn't matter to you but you're still concerned that
>someone
>>got raped, you can make points and have people agree with
>you
>>as long as you don't expect them to not care about racism
>like
>>you.
>
>Nice try, but im not asking people to "downplay" the racial
>aspect.

Yes, you are. You're acting as if people have EXPRESSED their lack of concern with rape except when it involves race.

>You are just overplaying it... acting inflamatory and showing
>you dont take the sexual assault aspect seriously in the first
>place.

No, I'm not. I made no post expressing my general feelings on the incident and what's important about it. Well, until a recent one in which I said how reading the post made me feel: "shocked and saddened". Where is the overplaying I have done?

>Yea, dont try to front with me after your behavior on this
>thread without an apology, cuz you are full of it.
>
>SAying i dont care about racism is petty and ignorant. Grow
>up.

Again, I said "if"... you and Jon don't do well with condition statements. It may sound from my conditional statement like I don't think you care about the racism in this specific case, then it's true that this was my impression. But you can say that I'm wrong.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:09 PM

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142. "RE: nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

>You're acting as if people have EXPRESSED their
>lack of concern with rape except when it involves race.

Most of those on this thread have taken issue with the racial slurs and the subject of racism... and have even attacked those of us who want to say: yo, what about the fact the girl first and foremost got brutally raped.

Nah, man, you arent being honest.

You made some assumptions into what i was saying and why i was pressing some questions. You jumped me... and you were wrong.

>>You are just overplaying it... acting inflamatory and
>showing
>>you dont take the sexual assault aspect seriously in the
>first
>>place.
>
>No, I'm not. I made no post expressing my general feelings on
>the incident and what's important about it. Well, until a
>recent one in which I said how reading the post made me feel:
>"shocked and saddened". Where is the overplaying I have done?

Oh please, grow up and try being honest with yourself.

The fact that you felt the need to make a specific thread based on ME says all that needs to be said.

Again, you made some big assumptions and took a self-righteous jab. YOu were wrong and not even remotely justified.

You've twisted the arguments to fight strawmen instead of being sincere, reasonable and objective... or at least RESPECTFUL.

I'm taking the feminist argument which doesnt downplay race (id NEVER make that argument) but which focuses on the sexism and sexual assault aspect of this (again, there is no evidence of this being a racially motivated hate crime and even if they are racist white boys it's not the point).

Keep on trying to defend your BS if you want... o-objective moderator.

  

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Chike
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32255 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:27 PM

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146. "RE: nice try, but you are showing lack of sincerity again"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

>>You're acting as if people have EXPRESSED their
>>lack of concern with rape except when it involves race.
>
>Most of those on this thread have taken issue with the racial
>slurs and the subject of racism... and have even attacked
>those of us who want to say: yo, what about the fact the girl
>first and foremost got brutally raped.

Bruh. Yors was the 3rd post. The issue got twisted cuz of you. Show me how the three people before you left the rape part out. Cuz, uh, they didn't. The original poster makes a point about how rape by athletes is often covered up. I think you're the one not being honest.

>Nah, man, you arent being honest.
>
>You made some assumptions into what i was saying and why i was
>pressing some questions. You jumped me... and you were
>wrong.
>
>>>You are just overplaying it... acting inflamatory and
>>showing
>>>you dont take the sexual assault aspect seriously in the
>>first
>>>place.
>>
>>No, I'm not. I made no post expressing my general feelings
>on
>>the incident and what's important about it. Well, until a
>>recent one in which I said how reading the post made me
>feel:
>>"shocked and saddened". Where is the overplaying I have
>done?
>
>Oh please, grow up and try being honest with yourself.
>
>The fact that you felt the need to make a specific thread
>based on ME says all that needs to be said.

I made a reply to the post commenting about what I saw as a problem affecting the discussion.

>Again, you made some big assumptions and took a self-righteous
>jab. YOu were wrong and not even remotely justified.
>
>You've twisted the arguments to fight strawmen instead of
>being sincere, reasonable and objective... or at least
>RESPECTFUL.

Again... show me some strawmen.

>I'm taking the feminist argument which doesnt downplay race
>(id NEVER make that argument) but which focuses on the sexism
>and sexual assault aspect of this (again, there is no evidence
>of this being a racially motivated hate crime and even if they
>are racist white boys it's not the point).
>
>Keep on trying to defend your BS if you want... o-objective
>moderator.

That's certainly what you seem prepared to do (keep on trying to defend BS).

If you were interested in a feminist standpoint that didn't downplay race, you would made a comment focused on the gender aspect of the case (like the original poster did) rather than about the fact that people were noting the racial aspect of the incident.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Sun Apr-09-06 11:52 PM

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150. "you assume your own false conclusions. some facts."
In response to Reply # 146
Sun Apr-09-06 11:56 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>If you were interested in a feminist standpoint that didn't
>downplay race, you would made a comment focused on the gender
>aspect of the case (like the original poster did) rather than
>about the fact that people were noting the racial aspect of
>the incident.

Again, you make poor leaps in logic and clearly didnt understand squat (and why i brougth up race to shake up peoples' assumptions).

Let me be more clear... your petty personal beef is misguided and you arent being mature or reasonable. So dont try the moral highground when it's all there for anybody with a heart and an honest mind to see.

- Every 2.5 minutes a woman is sexually assaulted in america

- 1 in 6 american women have been the victim of attempted or completed rape.

- In 2003 there were 204,370 reported rapes in america (it's believe that as many as 42% of rapes go unreported so do the math)

- 60% of rapes are from acquaintances or intimates/relatives. 31% are committed by complete strangers.

- Black women have an 18.8% rate of rape/attempted rape, with white woman at 17.7% (mixed race are 24.4%). The actual % of rape victims who are black is 13.3%

- 82.5% of all rape victims are white.

Ask yourselves how many white men rape black women every year.

Ask yourselves how many black men rape white women every year.

I got attacked for DARING to bring this shit up to make a point (one you continue to dodge).

Go ahead... now look up the statistics... and before you flame me consider that im bringing this up to bring us back to the issue of RAPE... not to bash blacks or some crap like that.

OH... and i think part of the PROBLEM with sexism and sexual assault in the black community is that black males continue to dodge the simple facts on this matter. I think it's no coincidence that i was so strongly criticized for making sure people remember rape isnt an issue of race... and that in this case we oughta focus squarely on this poor girl getting raped before we CONVENIENTLY focus on the racial slurs (i.e. not having to take measure of the reality of sexual assault in america: including by black males)

We need to be outraged about sexual assault. Period.

  

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Chike
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32255 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:03 AM

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152. "RE: you assume your own false conclusions. some facts."
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

>We need to be outraged about sexual assault. Period.

Your problem is assuming that anyone here disagrees with this.

If they bring up race in relation to a case with racial aspects, they're being normal, sensible human beings. They are NOT showing a lack of concern for the problem of rape. But look at me, I'm getting caught up again when I said I was done...

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Mon Apr-10-06 12:08 AM

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154. "RE: you assume your own false conclusions. some facts."
In response to Reply # 152
Mon Apr-10-06 12:09 AM by Tsetse

  

          

>>We need to be outraged about sexual assault. Period.
>
>Your problem is assuming that anyone here disagrees with this.
>
>
>If they bring up race in relation to a case with racial
>aspects, they're being normal, sensible human beings. They
>are NOT showing a lack of concern for the problem of rape.
>But look at me, I'm getting caught up again when I said I was
>done...

You aren't done because you would rather bash a brother screaming about rape than take the issue seroiusly on its own terms or even grant he has a god damned point.

You had no point.

You are a moderator and started a petty flame war with somebody being reasonable...

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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Sun Apr-09-06 11:18 PM

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144. "factual corrections and new claims"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

This shit is depressing...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12242239/

I got the story wrong on several accounts, assuming this new stuff is accurate.

1. Photo showing her before the rape, at the party with bruises and smiling. This of course plays into the whole "blame the victim" line of arguments... i.e. she was a stripper, she was already hurt and drunk, she came back because she wanted it, etc.

2. "The allegations have led to the resignation of coach Mike Pressler, the cancellation of the lacrosse season and the suspension of one player from school." OK, im glad something was done by Duke at least. I stand corrected on that.

3. Defense lawyers claim "the woman locked herself in the bathroom, where police later found her purse, cell phone, and several artificial fingernails she claimed to have lost during a struggle with her attackers." If the police found her shit in the bathroom, the whole theft/larceny charges are gone.

4. "Thomas said one of the attorneys representing team members had interviewed the other dancer extensively, and she said the alleged victim never told her about a rape." This may not be material, but it just adds up to making this girl look like she's lying and was consenting.

This shit is REALLY depressing.. and while folks want to attack ME on this forum (even the damn moderators) for not getting angry about a RAPE... instead making this into merely a racial issue... this girl's attackers might get off the fuckin hook.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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Mon Apr-10-06 12:33 AM

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160. "and the rape stats (on their own)"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

- Every 2.5 minutes a woman is sexually assaulted in america (average)

- 1 in 6 american women have been the victim of attempted or completed rape

- In 2003 there were 204,370 reported rapes in america (up to 42% of rapes are believed to be reported, so the # is much higher)

- 60% of rapes are from acquaintances or intimates/relatives. 31% are committed by complete strangers

- Black women have an 18.8% rate of rape/attempted rape, with white woman at 17.7% (mixed race are 24.4%). The actual % of rape victims who are black is 13.3%

- 82.5% of all rape victims are white

How many black-on-white rapes happen every year? (hint: a lot)
How many white-on=black rapes happen every year? (hint: a lot less)

The point in asking those 2 questions isnt to bash blacks as much as to make folks here step back... and realize perhaps we need to better focus on honest concern about BRUTAL RAPE itself before we conveniently riot about a couple of racial slurs.B

  

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truekolor
Member since Oct 02nd 2003
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Tue Apr-11-06 02:23 PM

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190. "first of all"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          


1- where did you get your stats from?

and second those don't prove your point that black men rape white women more than the other way around, your stats just prove that white women get raped more than black women, which is an obvious statistic due to population.

Third what is your point? Any real professional statistics will tell you that rape usually only occurs same race

Myth: Sexual assault usually occurs between strangers.

Fact: By some estimates, over 70% of rape victims know their attackers. The rapist may be a relative, friend, co-worker, date or other acquaintance.

Myth: Most rapes involve black men and white women.

FACT 77% of the rapes reported to the Orange County Rape Crisis Center in 1991 involved persons of the same race.

So i don't what yall are talking about if you think that black men raping white women happens all the time as you keep saying. But then neither does white men raping black women

"The white man sailed to Africa and saw the Black man laying in the bush with 12 women. As soon as the white man returned to America he created a law called Bigamy. Bigga-den-me." - Paul Mooney

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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Tue Apr-11-06 05:37 PM

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193. "you are so wrong and missing the point"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

i didnt say "most" rapes were black on white. however, i will point out that no matter how hard you try you cant dodge the facts that there are a lot more... a LOT more black on white rapes than white on black.

my point is that folks wanted to pretend this was just another example of RACISM... and missed the more fundamental problem of rape.

the rest of your spin is just silly... not worth responding to.

  

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humblemumble
Member since Feb 10th 2003
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Mon Apr-10-06 07:09 AM

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163. "now they are bringing evidence to the media instead of the cops"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

what part of the game is that?
watching the today show and there is a lwayer who claims he has evidence of the "stripper" just prior to arriving to the house already injured & bleeding...

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Mon Apr-10-06 07:14 AM

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164. "Trial by media is not a good idea"
In response to Reply # 163


          

It just makes things more difficult for the complainant in court.

  

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Jon
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Mon Apr-10-06 10:59 PM

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173. "anyway, it seems like the WERE most likely racist after all"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-10-06 11:01 PM by Jon

  

          

and, btw, i never said they weren't racist.

but if it turns out these women made false accusations to get back at them for calling them "n---er" , then its probably safe to say they were on some racist shit.

then again, they still could have just been on some "slut shit", and called them whatever's clever cuz they were some "sluts", not because they were black.

either way, i don't see much difference in terms of shittiness. you piss on somebody's human dignity, you're a piece of shit, race/gender/other.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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Tue Apr-11-06 05:47 AM

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174. "RE: anyway, it seems like the WERE most likely racist after all"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

Apparently this was her first time being an exotic dancer.

40 drunk white male college students sitting around waiting for dancers and two black girls show up. yea, not hard to imagine a few racial slurs popping out and these girls also getting PISSED OFF and leaving.

but guess what?

their lawyers will ask: then why did you return?

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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Tue Apr-11-06 05:51 AM

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175. "&amp;amp;quot;the DNA evidence&amp;amp;quot; - aww crap"
In response to Reply # 174
Tue Apr-11-06 06:21 AM by Tsetse

  

          

The latest is there were DNA tests exonerating every lacross player.

A few thoughts:

1. she hasnt been completely up-front about all teh details which is really hurting her case against 40 white priviledge male college students - oh wait, there is 1 black lacross player but whatever

2. of the 40+ guys there, is it true ALL were lacross players? some court documents claim this but the notion seems patently silly on the face of it

3. lack of DNA doesnt prove their innocence, but it sure fuckin chopped her case at the knees politically/media-wise (which frankly took up the racism point and the "omg" assumption of shared guilt) - the DNA evidence apparently includes her fingernails and all over.

4. a lot of people are going to back-lash at her because the entire team's coach and season was fucked over because of this incident (which at worse involved only 3 people who may or may not have been lacross players)

5. many people will proclaim this "proof" it was all a hoax, but in fact the hospital still reports the girl was very, very seriously violated

  

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da_afrocentric_pimpstah
Member since Jun 28th 2005
366 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 08:27 AM

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177. "Tsetse"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

That's cute trying to implicate the brother when the victim explicitly claimed that her assailants were white but as you say : whatever.



>The latest is there were DNA tests exonerating every lacross
>player.
>
>A few thoughts:
>
>1. she hasnt been completely up-front about all teh details
>which is really hurting her case against 40 white priviledge
>male college students - oh wait, there is 1 black lacross
>player but whatever
>
>2. of the 40+ guys there, is it true ALL were lacross players?
> some court documents claim this but the notion seems patently
>silly on the face of it
>
>3. lack of DNA doesnt prove their innocence, but it sure
>fuckin chopped her case at the knees politically/media-wise
>(which frankly took up the racism point and the "omg"
>assumption of shared guilt) - the DNA evidence apparently
>includes her fingernails and all over.
>
>4. a lot of people are going to back-lash at her because the
>entire team's coach and season was fucked over because of this
>incident (which at worse involved only 3 people who may or may
>not have been lacross players)
>
>5. many people will proclaim this "proof" it was all a hoax,
>but in fact the hospital still reports the girl was very, very
>seriously violated

"I am what I defend" Don Cheadle quoting an African proverb before Skippy Gates, all puppy eyed, told him about is genetic ancestry.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
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Tue Apr-11-06 09:35 AM

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180. "and i said that? i dont think so"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

>That's cute trying to implicate the brother when the victim
>explicitly claimed that her assailants were white but as you
>say : whatever.

where did i implicate the brother?

not only wasnt he implicated but they didnt do DNA tests on this cat cuz she explictly said 3 white boys raped her.

i was simply sharing the fact that there IS a black guy apparently on the lacross team... and the rest is your own reading into things.

  

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Jon
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Tue Apr-11-06 09:05 AM

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178. "oh wow, i wasn't aware of point 5"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 09:37 AM

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182. "i may be wrong, but i think the hospital was clear: this was brutal rape"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

that was how i read some of the media coverage.

she was taken to the hospital and they stated she had signs of a very brutal rape.

now... i assume that implies more than some bruises or the other stuff folks are saying she may have come to the party with...

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Tue Apr-11-06 09:17 AM

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179. "No DNA match for Lacross Players"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm not sure why, but something told me this was going to happen.


http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-duke11apr11,1,5406437.story?coll=la-news-a_section

No DNA Match in Duke Case
Lacrosse players' lawyers say that test results show none of the 46 men are linked to the alleged rape. A district attorney says he is not dissuaded.
By David Wharton, Times Staff Writer
April 11, 2006

DURHAM, N.C. — Crime lab tests have found no DNA evidence linking any of 46 Duke University lacrosse players, all of whom are white, to the alleged gang rape of a black woman at a team party last month, the players' attorneys said Monday.

The tests, ordered by prosecutors, have become a focal point in a highly charged case that has sparked angry debate over racial tensions and the uneasy relationship the prestigious private school has with the community.

Dist. Atty. Mike Nifong indicated to one newspaper that he would continue to pursue the case. He released the DNA results Monday afternoon to the attorneys, who held an impromptu news conference on the courthouse steps.

They said no DNA from the players matched samples taken from the body and clothing of the accuser, a student from nearby North Carolina Central University who had been hired for the party as an exotic dancer.

"We hope that with this long-awaited test, with these results … that Mr. Nifong will announce that he is not going to pursue this case further," said Wade Smith, one of the lawyers for the athletes. "All of us hope this community can begin to heal."

No one has been charged, but Nifong said he was not dissuaded by the test results.

"I believe a sexual assault took place," Nifong told the News & Observer of Raleigh on Monday. "I'm not saying it's over. If that's what they expect, they will be sadly disappointed."

The players, who in an earlier statement had called the accusations "totally and transparently false," were advised not to speak with reporters, their attorneys said.

The university issued a brief statement.

"We have to have confidence that the police investigation will ultimately reveal the truth," the statement said. "While the criminal allegations in this case are extremely serious, it is important to remember that no one has been charged and that in our system of law people are presumed innocent until proven guilty."

As they announced the test results, the athletes' lawyers acknowledged that the events of March 13 had raised troubling issues within the community.

"There are some tough questions that need to be asked here," said Joe Cheshire, who represents one of the team's captains.

According to court documents, the accuser told police that when she and another dancer began their routine at an off-campus house shared by the team's co-captains, players became "excited and aggressive."

The dancers left, but one of the men allegedly persuaded them to go back inside.

Shortly afterward, the accuser said, she was pulled into a bathroom, held by her arms and legs, and raped by three men for about 30 minutes.

A neighbor, Jason Bissey, said he saw the women speed off in a car. He said that as they left, one of several men milling around outside shouted: "Thank your grandpa for my nice cotton shirt!"

Police also released a tape of a 911 call made that evening in which a female caller said that partygoers had yelled a racial slur at her and a friend as they walked nearby.

As the investigation unfolded, it was revealed that a player later sent an e-mail to fellow teammates saying that they should hire strippers for another party and that he would kill and skin them.

The university, accused of reacting slowly at first, subsequently suspended the player, canceled the remainder of the season and accepted the resignation of Coach Mike Pressler.

Authorities had asked 46 members of the team to provide DNA samples.

A 47th player was not asked to participate because he is black and the accuser told police her attackers were white.
---------------------------------------
Riley: "Gangstalicious got shot, we got to do something!"

Huey: "I got an idea, lets go to college, so we don't end up like Gangstalicious."

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 09:35 AM

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181. "Shame on you Sunngodd"
In response to Reply # 179


          

Why would you let a inconsequential factor such as the burden of proof get in the way of a juicy story?

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 09:39 AM

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183. "a fair point, but..."
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

there are still signs the girl was raped.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 09:42 AM

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184. "I was about to ask..."
In response to Reply # 183
Tue Apr-11-06 09:51 AM by moot_point

          

Do you have a link for point 5 above? I can't imagine how a hospital would be at liberty to officially report anything about one of its patients.

And with the greatest respect, rape is a legal question, not a medical one.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 12:07 PM

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187. "Some facts i've found - police reports &amp;amp; details"
In response to Reply # 184
Tue Apr-11-06 12:30 PM by Tsetse

  

          

>Do you have a link for point 5 above? I can't imagine how a
>hospital would be at liberty to officially report anything
>about one of its patients.
>
>And with the greatest respect, rape is a legal question, not a
>medical one.

It's a damn fair question so i went back to check out the news sources and poke around on this.

I believe hospitals have legal responsibility in cases of potential rape to do careful forensics investigation and reports.

Anyways,i found these (this still all begs a lot of questions, including: were there ONLY lacrosse players there? did they do DNA tests on the broken fingernails? what are the eye witness reports about these 30 minutes? Isnt it strange that after 2 days the police still found fingernails, a shoe, a purse, $400 and other stuff in the bathroom?)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/06/opinion/meyer/main1480683.shtml

At 12:53 a.m. on March 14, police got a 911 call from a women saying white men were shouting racial slurs at her and a friend. Police came by, looked around and left.

At 1:22 a.m., a security guard at a near Kroger market called 911 about a distraught woman at the store. That led police to the alleged victim. She was taken that night to Duke University Hospital. A search warrant said the "victim had signs, symptoms and injuries consistent with being raped and sexually assaulted vaginally and anally."

The house at 610 Buchanan wasn't searched for two days after that. Police took away objects including five broken fingernails, a bath rug and mat, a hand towel, a bottle of KY jelly, cell phones, cameras and computers.

http://wilmingtonjournal.blackpressusa.com/news/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=67991&sID=4

Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong says based on what evidence he’s seen so far – broken fingernails, a make-up bag, a cell phone, a shoe and approximately $400 in cash left behind at the scene, in addition to the forensic rape exam report from the hospital - a brutal rape did occur.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Tue Apr-11-06 11:25 AM

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186. "doesn't mean she wasn't raped"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

>Why would you let a inconsequential factor such as the burden
>of proof get in the way of a juicy story?

she just can't prove it was the lacross players.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Tue Apr-11-06 12:47 PM

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188. "RE: doesn't mean she wasn't raped"
In response to Reply # 186


          

Of course it doesn't, but it throws a spanner in the works for those in this thread who are editorialising on a 'crime' for which nobody has even been charged.

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
4493 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 04:15 PM

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191. "RE: doesn't mean she wasn't raped"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          



didnt she say they raped her with a broom or some shit? if thats true then nobody's dna would be there except for hers, no? if she was strangled then what about fingerprints? shes done for, too much reasonable doubt.

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 05:34 PM

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192. "they found no DNA period - the issue is NOT about no matches"
In response to Reply # 179
Tue Apr-11-06 05:35 PM by Tsetse

  

          

This was misrepresented in the press.

What happened is they found no DNA evidence. Not that they found no MATCH to DNA evidence.

From AP

Nifong stopped short of confirming the defense assessment of the DNA results, but said the case would not be hampered by a lack of DNA evidence.

"It doesn't mean nothing happened," Nifong said at a public forum at North Carolina Central University, where the 27-year-old alleged victim is a student. "It just means nothing was left behind."

Nifong said prosecutors were awaiting a second set of DNA results, but did not say how those differed from the tests reported Monday. Nifong added that in 75 percent to 80 percent of sexual assaults, there is no DNA evidence to analyze.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Tue Apr-11-06 08:03 PM

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196. "wow, that makes her case look real suspect"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

>Nifong stopped short of confirming the defense assessment of
>the DNA results, but said the case would not be hampered by a
>lack of DNA evidence.
>
>"It doesn't mean nothing happened," Nifong said at a public
>forum at North Carolina Central University, where the
>27-year-old alleged victim is a student. "It just means
>nothing was left behind."
>
>Nifong said prosecutors were awaiting a second set of DNA
>results, but did not say how those differed from the tests
>reported Monday. Nifong added that in 75 percent to 80 percent
>of sexual assaults, there is no DNA evidence to analyze.

I was talking to someone today that DNA isn't left behind in many rape cases. However, because of the public nature of this case, lack of DNA evidence is a lot bigger deal than it would otherwise be. I doubt any charges will be filed in this case without the DNA, if this woman could have identified her alleged attackers by face, whe would have done it by now.

---------------------------------------
Riley: "Gangstalicious got shot, we got to do something!"

Huey: "I got an idea, lets go to college, so we don't end up like Gangstalicious."

  

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Xperience_Ink
Member since Apr 16th 2003
90 posts
Tue Apr-11-06 07:48 PM

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195. "Good idea and bad ideas - 3points"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

1.Yo! The incident at Duke was not a shock to me. Not even the racial implications. Duke is simply a white supremacist university, the only flavor that attends the school are the farm hand "black athletes" and international brainiacs. What do you expect from spoiled rich white boys? They want what they want when they want it. They happen to know sisters have it going on. The rape is deplorable even unforgivable but what do you expect from the "blue" devils? That's their nickname! If you look closely there are several racial implications or tones in college nicknames. UNC Tar heels. Wake Forest Demon Deacons. Catch my drift. Rape is the most disrespectful act on the planet, to take something from a woman that is that sacred. Her body is her temple, once that occurs things are never the same. They didn't find a DNA match becuse the heady devils used condoms. Without DNA they are going to try to railroad this case. They are going to make it seem like she brought the rape upon herself. And you know the incompetent police didn't searh the place for an unusual amount of rubbers in one particular trash bin or something. Not to mention they probably destroyed the evidence that would send them up state. She more than likely has the physical and mental bruises but will that be enough. Oh and white doctors to and they'll bring up the fact that she might have done similar things in the past on the side. You know how they do! White boys in a white town, probably with rich white good old boy daddy's. She's going to need reinforcements, we should try to do something to help. My emotions go out to the young lady and I wish her the best, if that's possible.

2. She was dancer attending a white boy athlete/frat party. She must know her surroundings and go with her first mind. They wanted to leave, I wish they had never returned. No amount of money is worth that! All money ain't good money. No matter the circumstances the boys were wrong but she could have avoided this unfortunate incident. Like the song; "don't go chasing waterfalls, stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're use to." I wish she had stayed home.

3. Do not place all athletes on one accord. Most of those date rapes occur with white athletes. Not all, if you don't like sports; that's cool. But don't take a pot shot at every athlete. Each man is his own man. Rape occurs in this country everyday, so is every rapists an athlete? Make sure you get it right before you cast your final judgement. Yes, I do agree that some athletes abuse their privileges but not all of them. If anything at the high division one level, it is the university who abuses the athlete. Yes knowledge is king and priceless but you give a kid from the projects a $50,000 scholarship but the university gets ticket sales, licensing deals, seven figure gym shoe deals, oh and by the way you better make us look good. The kid may the scholarship but the university makes the really big bucks. Oh and they can write off a scholarship at tax time.

"WORK, BUILD & PROSPER" - e.l. Russell

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Tue Apr-18-06 08:17 AM

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197. "2 indictments (well i'll be damned)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That's right... two "innocent until proven guilty" lacross players were slapped with indictments yesterday by a Grand Jury (who obviously decided there was both enough evidence of a rape and detail pertaining these two to proceed with a trial).

I was worried that perhaps the girl couldnt actually identify any of the guys or that maybe the prosecution exagerated what the hospital forensics indicated. It is weird that the identification process took so long.

I still remain of the assumption that while this girl is suspect... and aspects of her story are suspect... that the poor girl did get raped in that bathroom. i base that on two premises:

1. that the hospital forensics were not biased: that she had signs of brutal assault and rape.

2. that her shit was in the bathroom, including $160-400, a shoe, fingernails and a cell phone.

The defense posted their own "story" of what happened, and apparently the 2nd girl already trashed their account.

===============================================================

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12335371/site/newsweek/

At 11:02 p.m. on March 13, a group of partygoers, sitting on couches around the edge of the room awaiting the arrival of two strippers, smile for the camera. They're holding plastic cups. Above their heads, a Duke lacrosse poster on the wall reads it's hard to beat a team that never gives up. (Robert Ekstrand, who represents 33 of the players, used a forensics expert to establish the photo times.) The accuser is dropped off at about 11:45, about a half hour after the other (second) stripper arrived. By midnight, according to a photo, the two are almost naked on the beige carpet in front of their visibly happy audience. But by 12:03, the mood has turned: in a photo, the women are standing and the second stripper appears to be reaching toward the guys, all of whom have lost their smiles. She slaps one of them for suggesting the alleged victim use a broom as a sex toy, according to Ekstrand. Then both women lock themselves in the bathroom, Ekstrand details. The partygoers get nervous about what the women are up to and start slipping money under the door asking them to leave, says Bill Thomas, a lawyer who represents one of the captains. The women go out to the second stripper's car at about 12:20, but the accuser has left her purse behind; she goes back inside to get it, according to Ekstrand. A photo at 12:30 shows the alleged victim standing outside the back door of the house looking down into two bags with what appears to be a smile. She's wearing only her scant red-and-white outfit and one shoe. By the time she realizes she's missing a shoe—a few minutes later—the guys have locked the door to keep her out, say the attorneys. A 12:37 photo shows she's lying on the back stoop; she fell, according to Ekstrand. Her elbow is dusted and scraped, and her ankle is cut and bleeding. At 12:41 she gets into the car, and one of the partygoers appears to be helping her. In a call to a police dispatcher at about 1:30 made public last week, one of the first officers to see the accuser, in a parking lot, said she was "passed-out drunk" but "not in distress." Since the release of the recording, Ekstrand has suggested that if any assault happened, it was after the accuser left the house. Defense attorneys said last week that no DNA had been found on or inside the accuser. She was never alone in the house for more than about 10 minutes, according to their timeline.

The second woman supports the partygoers' story, says Thomas, who says he has seen a summary of an interview with her conducted by a member of the defense team. "Their versions are basically identical," he says. But Mark Simeon, an attorney for the second dancer, tells NEWSWEEK that Thomas's claim is not accurate. "She rejects the notion that she agrees with their timeline. I've shown their story line to my client, and she says there's a lot that's wrong with it. From the beginning, she has been cooperating fully with and the police, and she looks forward to testifying truthfully at the trial." Thomas replies, "She has given us several statements, so I don't see any room for her to change her story now simply because she has a lawyer speaking for her." Nifong could not be reached for comment.


  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
65832 posts
Wed Apr-19-06 12:59 AM

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198. "Not to defend these guys at all, cuz I think they're assholes, but..."
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

...the two guys who were indicted will probably get off. The defense says they have proof that they were not even among those players at the party. They have ATM receipts, ATM cameras with timestamped pictures, and alibis saying they were at dinner, the bank, or what have you.

Unfortunately, the defense will mark her as an unreliable witness, show the proof, and the boys will likely get off with nothing more than maybe guilty of misdemeanor burglary or something.

I'd say lock these guys up on principle, but then again, I hated those asshole lacrosse players before I even found out the depths of their racism and misogyny. So maybe I'm biased.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-long-and-late-movie-show/id498789655

http://twitter.com/RussellHFilm
http://thepasswordisswordfish.com
http://letterboxd.com/russellhfilm/films/diary/by/release/

  

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Tsetse
Member since Nov 27th 2005
225 posts
Wed Apr-19-06 01:16 AM

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199. "agreed, i think convinctions are unlikely, but..."
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

The story doesnt add up at this point and i think with 40+ people at this party we may end up with more witnesses. That's a lot of pressure on all those other people who werent involved... and all it takes is ONE to say something...

With circumstantial evidence, i personally think they raped the girl. However, she's black... she's a stripper... she wasnt completely honest it seems to me (initially, although i cant blame her). There isnt going to be any hard DNA evidence.

So, it will come down to witnesses i think.

  

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Abstruse Society
Member since Apr 15th 2006
11 posts
Wed Apr-19-06 04:40 AM

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200. "RE: Not to defend these guys at all, cuz I think they're assholes, but....."
In response to Reply # 198


          

he deserves 45 years in jail with a 6'8 390 horny black gay guy who doesnt like white people should be his be his cellmate

http://abstrusesociety.blogspot.com/

www.myspace.com/divinerbg

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Wed Apr-19-06 04:48 AM

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201. "RE: Not to defend these guys at all, cuz I think they're assholes, but....."
In response to Reply # 198


          

>I'd say lock these guys up on principle, but then again, I
>hated those asshole lacrosse players before I even found out
>the depths of their racism and misogyny. So maybe I'm biased.

No, just an idiot.

  

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doorman
Member since Oct 31st 2005
67 posts
Wed Apr-19-06 01:35 PM

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202. "HA!"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

nm

_____________________________________

Art imitates life

  

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D0yenne
Member since Nov 09th 2005
36 posts
Wed Apr-19-06 07:41 PM

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203. "out of interest..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is this a male dominated post?? lol.
rape is horrible. i think all the men need to take a second out and really think about how horrible it is. regardless of race.
i don't think that sexism and racism are intertwined in this country, though they can be, its not a given.
I also think that this WAS racially motivated, and if not, it's definitely racially significant, because in this country, even when you don't think it's about race, it is. no matter who does what, race factors in always.
but I also think it's important to focus on the fact that a WOMAN, not a dancer, or a stripper, or an african american, A WOMAN WAS GANG RAPED.
..........
that should provoke upset in all communities.
i wonder how much response i would get if i made a post about rape, no specific incident.
would the men that are so engaged in this post be as passionate to reply in that one??
all i can say is that I hope you would.
just to be clear i'm not smashing anyone's opinion, on the contrary, I agree with everything that has been said in this post. But i think that it's important to stand up for both issues.
sexism is still a huge issue in the world, and in this country.
it shouldn't be swept under the rug. More people need to speak up on that.
thanks for reading.
*D*

"We live in a country in which words are mostly used to cover the sleeper, not to wake him up."
-J.Baldwin

"it's hard, being alive...." -B. Shenkman

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
14131 posts
Tue Apr-17-07 12:25 AM

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204. "L."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/471/front041207hz5.jpg

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bitches think that i'm dominican, slalf hash indian.

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Tue Apr-17-07 09:30 AM

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205. "haha!"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

L Indeed

They should retitle the thread

" Whore of Mind Blowing proportions claims false rape and ruins the lives of three Lax Players"

  

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no_i_cant_dance
Member since Apr 10th 2006
4493 posts
Wed Apr-18-07 02:44 PM

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207. "Really, did they even find her attractive at all??"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


I'm thinkin their purpose was to verbally degrade her even more than she was degrading herself. I wonder if she will get prosecuted for filing a false rape report??

<<LoL...maybe not tho
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I seriously doubt that Spice-1 and MJG will call on Lupe to commemorate them at their Hip Hop Honors. © taygravy

There is something about a willful black woman that attracts unflinching, c

  

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