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Lobby Okay Activist topic #143354

Subject: "What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?" Previous topic | Next topic
moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Sat Apr-07-12 03:05 PM

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"What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"


          

Genuinely interested.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Apr 09th 2012
1
RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Apr 09th 2012
2
      hmmm.. not sure how that went down
Apr 09th 2012
3
      RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Apr 09th 2012
4
jibberish...
Apr 24th 2012
5
Let's make it easy this time
Apr 25th 2012
6
is this the guy here,
May 13th 2012
8
      I don't know.. is it?
May 13th 2012
9
           well
May 13th 2012
10
                Post #1 has all of the information you wish to inquire
May 14th 2012
14
                     RE: Post #1 has all of the information you wish to inquire
May 20th 2012
15
                          Cool , no one ask or forced you to enter and post
May 22nd 2012
16
                               of course i did,
Jun 02nd 2012
18
                                    and with that said your input will be premature
Jun 04th 2012
21
                                         not at all, yank.
Jun 08th 2012
22
                                              idiot is is...
Jun 08th 2012
24
ha ha ha ha n/m
May 13th 2012
7
RE: jibberish...
May 13th 2012
11
yep,
May 13th 2012
12
it's just turgid
May 13th 2012
13
Something of interest Moot Point
May 30th 2012
17
but wait. he's in prison, no?
Jun 02nd 2012
19
      County jail, not prison numbskull
Jun 04th 2012
20
           RE: County jail, not prison numbskull
Jun 08th 2012
23
                RE: County jail, not prison numbskull
Jun 08th 2012
25
                     RE: County jail, not prison numbskull
Jun 24th 2012
26
RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Sep 09th 2012
27
It's a claim challenge and it's common practice
Sep 19th 2012
28
RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Oct 02nd 2012
29
      RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Oct 05th 2012
30
           looks like you have your hands full, LOL
Oct 05th 2012
31
           RE: looks like you have your hands full, LOL
Oct 05th 2012
32
                Somewhat, I've had some discussions about it
Oct 05th 2012
33
                     RE: Somewhat, I've had some discussions about it
Oct 05th 2012
34
                          RE: Somewhat, I've had some discussions about it
Oct 08th 2012
35
           RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Oct 12th 2012
36
                RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?
Oct 21st 2012
37
                     I fail to see why you believe this may not be a vaild claim
Oct 22nd 2012
38

Yank
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Mon Apr-09-12 07:26 AM

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1. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-09-12 07:28 AM by Yank

  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3SLwp_2bHg

The Fundementals...

You also might want to get into the habit of looking up words, even the ones you thought you knew..

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Mon Apr-09-12 08:16 AM

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2. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

There is something quite sad about that man's story (and possibly his motivation). Why was his daughter taken into care?

  

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Yank
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Mon Apr-09-12 12:02 PM

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3. "hmmm.. not sure how that went down"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I think the thought came to mind once but then I told myself that it's probably a person matter so I never asked him.

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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mambo_ndimi
Member since Nov 10th 2004
903 posts
Mon Apr-09-12 11:30 PM

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4. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

From the general gist it sounds like he didn't register the birth, get vaccinations etc

>There is something quite sad about that man's story (and
>possibly his motivation). Why was his daughter taken into
>care?

Dunno what he was like before they took his child but it can't have helped.

"mista who're you?"

"To find the most corrupt, vile, self-inflated and thieving brown man you need look no further than the white man's pocket" Tuloko

"Arise Comrades, and free yourselves from the tyranny of objects." Malevich

  

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DJ Danga
Member since Jan 27th 2011
1250 posts
Tue Apr-24-12 11:10 PM

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5. "jibberish..."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-24-12 11:11 PM by DJ Danga

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3SLwp_2bHg

GIBBERISH : is a generic term in English for talking that sounds like speech, but carries no actual meaning.

clearly this guy is a babbling idiot piecing together his interpretation of law and hashing together a composite of sophist garbage...

He probably didn't pay his child support and instead of excepting responsibility -Blames the Government...of course a fuckin moron like this would blame sweet fuck all on Corporatism.
Thats his job-to lend the appearance of a "radical" political perspective with the utility of steering the uneducated masses AWAY from a Genuinely Revolutionary track...the CIA couldn't have dreamed up a better STOOGE.

I think this guy in the video IS Yank... and now I KNow for Sure he's a parasitic fuck.

  

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Yank
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Wed Apr-25-12 04:52 PM

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6. "Let's make it easy this time"
In response to Reply # 5
Wed Apr-25-12 04:55 PM by Yank

  

          

How bout you just copy and paste that reply and tell him yourself

https://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Menard/1643321670#!/profile.php?id=100000152705701

That way we will know if you are serious about this.

I'm sure he'll address your concerns especially since you're both Canadian

Better bring your A game tho.. That C shit aint gonna cut it.

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1431 posts
Sun May-13-12 02:28 PM

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8. "is this the guy here,"
In response to Reply # 6


          

featured on his friend's conspiracy theory and ufo website?

http://www.exploringinfinity.com/2010/05/the-governments-response-to-robert-menards-96-fix-accepted-for-value-a4v/

doesn't seem to be much to see there.

  

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Yank
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9. "I don't know.. is it?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>featured on his friend's conspiracy theory and ufo website?
>
>http://www.exploringinfinity.com/2010/05/the-governments-response-to-robert-menards-96-fix-accepted-for-value-a4v/
>
>doesn't seem to be much to see there.

I'm sure you've played concentration sometime during you life

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1431 posts
Sun May-13-12 05:17 PM

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10. "well"
In response to Reply # 9


          

i thought you may know since you appear to be claiming acquaintance with this person. i just thought i'd point out that, given it is the same person, which seems likely, that there appears to be very little of interest in terms of his activities. this ufo and conspiracy theory website, run by his friend, had more info than anything else that came up, and that in itself is very little and inconsequential. great, it appears he sent his birth certificate to people whom he owed money, and they wrote back to say that his birth certificate isn't accepted as payment of his debt. profound stuff, eh? you freemen on the land never fail to amaze me.

  

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Yank
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Mon May-14-12 09:35 AM

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14. "Post #1 has all of the information you wish to inquire"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

stop trolling.

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1431 posts
Sun May-20-12 03:01 PM

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15. "RE: Post #1 has all of the information you wish to inquire"
In response to Reply # 14
Sun May-20-12 03:03 PM by peebo

          

i flicked through the first part of it, and it was bullshit. i'm not going to sit here and waste more than an hour on such nonsense.

  

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Yank
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Tue May-22-12 12:03 PM

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16. "Cool , no one ask or forced you to enter and post"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

you did that upon your own free will.

So be a grown up for once and accept some responsibility

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sat Jun-02-12 05:38 AM

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18. "of course i did,"
In response to Reply # 16


          

but that still doesn't mean i'd want to sit through an hour of bullshit. i posted in the thread as i'm interested in the FREEMAN ON THE LAND, as was the op.

  

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Yank
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Mon Jun-04-12 09:07 AM

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21. "and with that said your input will be premature"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

be a mute or an idiot, your choice

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1431 posts
Fri Jun-08-12 11:21 AM

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22. "not at all, yank."
In response to Reply # 21


          

i have limited time. i have to filter my sources of information. within less than a couple of minutes, it was clear this guy was a deluded fool.i'm not going to watch any further, there is far too much for me to be doing/watching/reading/listening to in my spare time to waste it on this obvious rubbish. it's drivel.

to be honest though, i do feel sorry for the guy. from the little i watched i see that his situation is troubled and there's likely some major injustice involved. it's just too bad that he's going about vindicating himself in possibly the most ridiculous way he could.

  

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Yank
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24. "idiot is is..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

-

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun May-13-12 05:27 AM

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7. "ha ha ha ha n/m"
In response to Reply # 5


          

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun May-13-12 05:26 PM

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11. "RE: jibberish..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

this link, in a comment on the youtube page, says it all, really.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2005/summer/patriots-for-profit

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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12. "yep,"
In response to Reply # 5


          

think he's had a "couple of tokes" too many, to be honest.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun May-13-12 05:34 PM

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13. "it's just turgid"
In response to Reply # 5


          

on some level i feel sorry for the poor character. completely deluded.

  

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Yank
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17. "Something of interest Moot Point"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A squatter has judges and lawyers for breakfast here... They basically had to break the law by cause damage to the property in an attempt to make his idea of living uncomfortable for him

Imagine that...

Neighbors find Detroit squatter tough to dislodge



Detroit — Nine years ago, the six-bedroom, brick and stone Tudor Revival in the city's Palmer Woods neighborhood sold for almost $480,000.

So neighbors got suspicious when its new occupant pulled up in a U-Haul last fall and used garbage bags to block the windows of the 4,400-square-foot house.

Thus began an elaborate cat-and-mouse game between some of the city's most elite residents — including judges and lawyers — and a man prosecutors allege is a serial squatter. For eight months, residents badgered a bank that owned the foreclosed home, persuaded utilities to shut off power, blocked the driveway with large rocks and put glue in the front door lock to keep the squatter out.

"The judges were calling here trying to see what we could do," said Anthony Cartwright, a broker whose firm, North American Real Estate, markets the home for Fannie Mae. "I said, 'You're a judge.'"

Residents won last week when prosecutors charged Clarence Boykin Jr., 53, with 11 felonies accusing him of filing false ownership paperwork on three houses, including two in Palmer Woods. A not-guilty plea was entered on his behalf Tuesday at Wayne County Circuit Court and he remains jailed.

Experts say the battle demonstrates the severity of the squatting problem in foreclosure-ravaged Detroit and the lengths homeowners must go to oust illegal occupants. It's an issue throughout the city where banks have taken possession of more than 41,000 foreclosed homes from 2007 to 2011, according to RealtyTrac.

Even Detroit's finest neighborhoods aren't immune, and the odds are stacked against neighbors.

Fannie Mae couldn't evict Boykin from the six-bedroom house because the foreclosure was recent. By law, owners have six months to reclaim foreclosed property. And Boykin filed paperwork claiming it was his, Cartwright said.

Cartwright's firm even offered the squatter $4,000 to leave for "relocation assistance." He refused.

"He (Boykin) said he was going to court to get the property," Cartwright said. "There's always a loophole, which he followed.

"He was one of the smart ones."

Boykin isn't talking. During his first court hearing Tuesday, he fired his court-appointed attorney, James O'Donnell, and refused to tell Judge Kevin Robbins his name.

"You would use my name against me so I plead the Fifth," Boykin said. Robbins found him in contempt and sent him back to jail for another 30 days. Boykins faces up to 14 years in prison if convicted.

The house on Balmoral became vacant last summer when its owner walked away from a mortgage, said Rochelle Lento, an attorney who has lived in the area for 20 years. The Palmer Woods Neighborhood Association closely monitors the roughly 10 vacant houses of about 300 in the area off Woodward Avenue near Seven Mile because members feel a responsibility to the historic homes, she said.

When the man showed up in a moving truck, neighbors tracked down the former owner to see if he had sold it. He hadn't. Efforts by The News to reach the former owner were unsuccessful.

Residents started working with law enforcement officials to build a case. While authorities investigated, residents tried to discourage the squatter.

They successfully urged DTE to shut off gas and electric service, Lento said. DTE Energy spokesman John Austerberry said he isn't familiar with the case, but the utility cuts service when notified of illegal hookups or if previous owners request it.

Neighbor Abe Gurewitz said he used a ladder to peek in behind the garbage bags and saw piles of construction debris. Frustrated, he spent a day placing large rocks in the driveway to keep the squatter out.

Another neighbor tried to glue the locks, Gurewitz said.

"We have no way to know what the person is doing in the house," Lento said. "We are trying to protect the assets in the neighborhood. People really do care about the neighborhood and will be proactive."

When the squatter spoke with neighbors, he insisted he "had every right to be there," Gurewitz said.

Boykin allegedly filed paperwork with the Register of Deeds claiming he entered the address "peacefully" and "will not abandon … (the) private property under duress by the City of Detroit Police and unknown sources."

Prosecutors also allege he filed paperwork claiming rights to another house in Palmer Woods on Seven Mile. County records indicate Boykin filed an "Affidavit of Adverse Possession According to the Holy Bible."

Prosecutors also allege he filed false papers and moved into a house on Oakman in northwest Detroit. It's unclear whether he was allegedly living in the three houses at the same time.

Prosecutors and Cartwright credit the vigilance of the Palmer Woods neighbors in ousting the squatter. But the process is often frustrating to neighbors who have few options beyond contacting homes' owners or petitioning utilities to shut off service, said Michael Brady, vice president of policy for the Center for Community Progress, a nonprofit which focuses on vacant properties.

"You don't have standing to report a person as a squatter because you don't own the house," Brady said.

One way to get squatters out quicker is to go to court and reduce the foreclosure redemption period, but the neighbors weren't able to get that clearance in the Balmoral house, Cartwright said.

"If you do it right, you can hold it up for six months," he said. "The neighbors really stayed on top of (it)."

Cartwright said the inside of the house wasn't damaged and there's been a lot of interest from prospective buyers. He said he expects a bidding war when the house, which has yet to be priced, goes up for sale.



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120530/METRO01/205300358#ixzz1wN9yxl6I

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sat Jun-02-12 05:50 AM

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19. "but wait. he's in prison, no?"
In response to Reply # 17


          

is this the same guy?

why jesus didn't resurrect on easter sunday
http://www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-601-2

  

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Yank
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20. "County jail, not prison numbskull"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Just like the Golboldo case this is also a matter of jurisdiction as it relates to property... The prosecutor will have to prove that he filed false contracts to which if he is operating in common law will be TOUGH to prove

Hopefully you learned something from that case (Goldbolo) which she actually won ya know... Now she's suing them, LOL

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Jun-08-12 11:24 AM

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23. "RE: County jail, not prison numbskull"
In response to Reply # 20


          

i'm not american, so i don't make the distinction. is he locked in a cell? if so, isn't this just a semantic point?


>Just like the Golboldo case this is also a matter of
>jurisdiction as it relates to property... The prosecutor will
>have to prove that he filed false contracts to which if he is
>operating in common law will be TOUGH to prove
>
>Hopefully you learned something from that case (Goldbolo)
>which she actually won ya know... Now she's suing them, LOL

as i recall, this was one of the few threads where my opinions were not so far away from your own, no?

  

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Yank
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25. "RE: County jail, not prison numbskull"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>i'm not american, so i don't make the distinction. is he
>locked in a cell? if so, isn't this just a semantic point?
>

Like I said, idiot it is..

>
>>>as i recall, this was one of the few threads where my opinions
>were not so far away from your own, no?

So what are you trying to tell me?

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun Jun-24-12 05:44 AM

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26. "RE: County jail, not prison numbskull"
In response to Reply # 25


          

>>i'm not american, so i don't make the distinction. is he
>>locked in a cell? if so, isn't this just a semantic point?
>>
>
>Like I said, idiot it is..

explain?


>
>>
>>>>as i recall, this was one of the few threads where my
>opinions
>>were not so far away from your own, no?
>
>So what are you trying to tell me?

that we were in agreement, and i'm not sure what you are suggesting i should have learned. but that situation and this are rather different. although i understand that youwill disagree and say it is all to do with CONTRACT.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Sun Sep-09-12 06:18 AM

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27. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Funnily enough, I have just started working in commercial dispute resolution and part of it involves debt recovery.

I have just received a letter from one debtor, who has asked for 'the instrument of original indebtedness', which, I think, is a freeman on the land type approach.

I plan, in response, to use good ol' fashioned statute, common law and the civil procedure rules. I shall let you know who wins (even if I lose!)

  

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Yank
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Wed Sep-19-12 04:46 PM

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28. "It's a claim challenge and it's common practice"
In response to Reply # 27
Wed Sep-19-12 04:47 PM by Yank

  

          

for those who are aware of such practices.

The State of Florida has started to catch on with these foreclosures.

And the BOA scam that was recently settle involved proof of claim as well to which BOA tried to skate around

http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com/2008/06/19/produce-the-note-how-to/


>I have just received a letter from one debtor, who has asked
>for 'the instrument of original indebtedness', which, I think,
>is a freeman on the land type approach.
>

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Tue Oct-02-12 01:51 AM

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29. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 27


          

isn't he basically just asking for proof of the debt, then? this is fair enough, commonly done by people being pursued for debts, and not really FREEMAN ON THE LAND stuff.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Fri Oct-05-12 02:04 PM

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30. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 29


          

I disagree. If somebody makes a claim (in UK civil procedure anyway), the defendant either 1) admits it, 2) denies it and sets out reasons for denying it or 3) states that they can neither admit nor deny it and therefore requires the claimant to prove it.

Unless a defendant has genuinely forgotten about a loan (which I would suggest is unlikely), this whole 'instrument of original indebtedness' routine is just a contrived and hopeless attempt to avoid the debt they ought properly to satisfy. That's my argument anyway, and we will see soon enough if I am right.

As an aside, another desperate debtor has just tried to settle a debt with a promissory note. I will let you know how that goes, also.

  

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Yank
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31. "looks like you have your hands full, LOL"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

-

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Fri Oct-05-12 02:56 PM

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32. "RE: looks like you have your hands full, LOL"
In response to Reply # 31


          

Indeed. Love my job though - makes life interesting.

You aware of the promissory note routine?

  

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Yank
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Fri Oct-05-12 03:35 PM

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33. "Somewhat, I've had some discussions about it"
In response to Reply # 32
Fri Oct-05-12 03:37 PM by Yank

  

          

I am more familiar with the accepted for value method.

Keep in mind though you are trying to collect in a 'legal' capacity
They are trying to obtain remedy in a 'lawful' capacity

Not the same thing.

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Fri Oct-05-12 03:54 PM

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34. "RE: Somewhat, I've had some discussions about it"
In response to Reply # 33


          

I would be happy for you to convince me of the distinction.

  

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Yank
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Mon Oct-08-12 08:12 AM

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35. "RE: Somewhat, I've had some discussions about it"
In response to Reply # 34
Mon Oct-08-12 08:23 AM by Yank

  

          

Lawful. In accordance with the law of the land; according to the law; permitted, sanctioned, or justified by law. “Lawful” properly implies a thing conformable to or enjoined by law; “Legal”, a thing in the form or after the manner of law or binding by law. A writ or warrant issuing from any court, under color of law, is a “legal” process however defective. See legal.

Legal. Latin legalis. Pertaining to the understanding, the exposition, the administration, the science and the practice of law: as, the legal profession, legal advice; legal blanks, newspaper. Implied or imputed in law. Opposed to actual

-A Dictionary of Law 1893

“Legal” looks more to the letter , and “Lawful” to the spirit , of the law. “Legal” is more appropriate for conformity to positive rules of law; “Lawful” for accord with ethical principle. “Legal” imports rather that the forms of law are observed, that the proceeding is correct in method, that rules prescribed have been obeyed; “Lawful” that the right is actful in substance, that moral quality is secured. “Legal” is the antithesis of equitable, and the equivalent of constructive.

-2 Abbott’s Law Dic. 24.


Legal matters administrate, conform to, and follow rules. They are equitable in nature and are implied (presumed) rather than actual (express). A legal process can be defective in law. This accords with the previous discussions of legal fictions and color of law. To be legal, a matter does not follow the law. Instead, it conforms to and follows the rules or form of law. This may help you to understand why the Federal and State Rules of Civil and Criminal Procedure are cited in every court petition so as to conform to legal requirements of the specific juristic persons named, e.g., “STATE OF GEORGIA” or the “U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT” that rule the courts.

Lawful matters are ethically enjoined in the law of the land—the law of the people—and are actual in nature, not implied. This is why whatever true law was upheld by the organic Constitution has no bearing or authority in the present day legal courts. It is impossible for anyone in “authority” today to access, or even take cognizance of, true law since “authority” is the “law of necessity,” 12 USC 95.

Therefore, it would appear that the meaning of the word “legal” is “color of law,” a term which Black’s Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, defines as:

Color of law. The appearance or semblance, without the substance, of legal right. Misuse of power, possessed by virtue of state law and made possible only because wrongdoer is clothed with authority of state, is action taken under “color of law.” Black’s Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, page 241.


Statute (Legal)- A statute is a formal written enactment of a legislative authority that governs a state, city, or county. Typically, statutes command or prohibit something, or declare policy. The word is often used to distinguish law made by legislative bodies from case law, decided by courts, and regulations issued by government agencies. Statutes are sometimes referred to as legislation or "black letter law." As a source of law, statutes are considered primary authority *****(as opposed to secondary authority).*********


Common Law (Lawful) - The principles and rules of action, embodied in case law rather than legislative enactments, applicable to the government and protection of persons and property that derive their authority from the community customs and traditions that evolved over the centuries as interpreted by judicial tribunals.




Think of having two pairs of what appears to be Air Jordans
But one pair are actually Sky Jordans
http://jordansdaily.com/2012/07/05/sky-jordan-1-1985-og/
and the other pair actual Air Jordans
http://www.kicksonfire.com/what-are-air-jordans/air-jordan-1-i/air-jordan-1-i-original-og-1985-white-black-red/

One has substance the other does not although the one without gives off the appearance hence why some people wore them.

Only those with the ability to spot the semantical details would be able to differ between the two




Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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peebo
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1431 posts
Fri Oct-12-12 02:17 PM

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36. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 30


          

>I disagree. If somebody makes a claim (in UK civil procedure
>anyway), the defendant either 1) admits it, 2) denies it and
>sets out reasons for denying it or 3) states that they can
>neither admit nor deny it and therefore requires the claimant
>to prove it.
>
>Unless a defendant has genuinely forgotten about a loan (which
>I would suggest is unlikely), this whole 'instrument of
>original indebtedness' routine is just a contrived and
>hopeless attempt to avoid the debt they ought properly to
>satisfy. That's my argument anyway, and we will see soon
>enough if I am right.
>


not really. it's actually quite a common practice, and many mainstream debt advice organisations advise people to do this, especially if it is a debt collection agency trying to collect the debt on behalf of the original lender. the "instrument" in question is nothing more than a copy of the original signed loan agreement. debt collectors are actually legally obliged to produce this within a certain period after it's requested, under the CCA. i mean, if someone is pursuing you for many thousands of pounds, it's only reasonable that you should be entitled to a copy of the original agreement for your own reference and clarity, no?

also, it's not altogether unlikely that someone may be confused about whom he owes what to. i've come across a number of people in a professional context whose debt has spiraled in such a manner that they quite literally don't know who they owe what to, and i've also come across people who have been pursued for debts that they legitimately didn't actually owe.


  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3807 posts
Sun Oct-21-12 02:15 PM

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37. "RE: What's all this 'freeman on the land' business?"
In response to Reply # 36


          

I realise my last post failed to express the key point - the freeman routine, as I understand it, is they claim that, without the original agreement (not a copy - that, they say, is inadequate), the agreement is unenforceable.

  

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Yank
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Mon Oct-22-12 06:55 AM

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38. "I fail to see why you believe this may not be a vaild claim"
In response to Reply # 37
Mon Oct-22-12 07:01 AM by Yank

  

          

>I realise my last post failed to express the key point - the
>freeman routine, as I understand it, is they claim that,
>without the original agreement (not a copy - that, they say,
>is inadequate), the agreement is unenforceable.


http://www.ehow.com/how_5899812_file-proof-original-mortgage.html



Even the government is required to maintain records upon individuals

(d) Access to Records.— Each agency that maintains a system of records shall—
(1) upon request by any individual to gain access to his record or to any information pertaining to him which is contained in the system, permit him and upon his request, a person of his own choosing to accompany him, to review the record and have a copy made of all or any portion thereof in a form comprehensible to him, except that the agency may require the individual to furnish a written statement authorizing discussion of that individual’s record in the accompanying person’s presence;

5 USC § 552a - Records maintained on individuals
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/552a




Besides how is that approach any different from a consumer being turned away from a corporation because he/she doesn't have a receipt or 'proof of purchase' ?

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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