If this post is unnecessary, please delete it mods. I was going to post in the current wrestling thread and ask about the deal, but I mainly watch MMA and I haven't watched wrestling in decades, so I didn't want to pollute that thread with my MMA-centric views.
My main question is this regarding the deal: is Vince technically Dana White's superior? I've read some reports that says Vince has a leadership with the Endeavor brand, but I'm not clear if that means he has power over Dana White.
What's most interesting to me is that while the UFC had more monetary value in the purchase, the Endeavor board will be comprised of folks from Endeavor and WWE; none of the board members will be chosen from the UFC.
Like I said earlier, I haven't watched wrestling in years, so pardon my ignorance if I'm wrong, but WWE wrestlers are independent contractors correct? If so, that's an unfortunate status they share with the UFC fighters. Good god do these two groups need to form a union in some shape or fashion because they are going to get screwed royally out of getting their fair share of the pie.
Speaking of that proverbial pie, I have to wonder streaming rights will change a ton as result of this deal. I wonder how much Endeavor will try to flex their leverage with a new streaming deal.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
1. "Yeah from what I've read, Vince will be Executive Chariman" In response to Reply # 0
of the new company.
Not sure how that flow chart works though.
But I'd be prepared for some nonsensical ideas going forward.
Vince has largely lost his touch, with *very* few exceptions. And when he finds something that works, he nearly always turns it into a dead horse catching elbow drops. He runs shit into the ground like no other.
Don't be shocked if UFC announcing starts to blow. Again, not sure about that organizational flow chart, but if he has control over that element... good luck with that.
I'm not excited about any of this from a wrestling fan standpoint. We're already seeing things we don't like with Vince as the suspected culprit.
2. "A lot of thinga aren’t especially clear" In response to Reply # 0
Regarding Vince and Dana White, Vince has the executive director title and Dana is UFC president. I really doubt Vince is going to have any influence over White and UFC tho. I would imagine that WWE and UFC are going to still operate independently of each other. I’d hazard that it’s like other corporations with different divisions and presidents, so even if someone is in charge of one division, they aren’t telling managers in another what to do.
As for streaming, I have no idea how UFC current model works, so I won’t comment. However, I imagine that it’s going to change for the WWE. Right now, if you have Peacock, you have access to everything that the WWE makes available in their library, as well as the ability to stream their PPV events live. That’s probably all going away. I’m going to guess that Endeavor starts its own streaming service, which you’ll have to subscribe to go get access to the WWE and UFC libraries. And they’ll up-charge if you want to stream live events. Probably make you pay for each separately.
3. "im not so sure about the TV situation " In response to Reply # 2
if that was a better way to make money i have to think they would already be doing it
theyve spent 20+ years analyzing how to leverage their brand for dollars. they could have been upcharging their own PPVs for years on their own streaming platform, but didnt. getting people to prepay for 3 high level PPVs a year and then selling commercial time on them anyways is probably their lane until they have indicators that people wont revolt from spending more money.
UFC and WWE differ in that UFC is not a money maker on television. UFC earns nothing from cable TV, while WWE hasnt truly sold a PPV on a widespread basis in years. Both companies made about 1.3B last year. Im not sure they can both do business the same way.
4. "RE: im not so sure about the TV situation " In response to Reply # 3
>if that was a better way to make money i have to think they >would already be doing it > >theyve spent 20+ years analyzing how to leverage their brand >for dollars. they could have been upcharging their own PPVs >for years on their own streaming platform, but didnt. getting >people to prepay for 3 high level PPVs a year and then selling >commercial time on them anyways is probably their lane until >they have indicators that people wont revolt from spending >more money. > >UFC and WWE differ in that UFC is not a money maker on >television. UFC earns nothing from cable TV, while WWE hasnt >truly sold a PPV on a widespread basis in years. Both >companies made about 1.3B last year. Im not sure they can >both do business the same way.
You are dead wrong about the money the UFC earns from TV, at least from TV rights in the US. ESPN pays the UFC a grip of money for their TV partnership. Since 2018, the UFC entered a TV deal with ESPN for 1.5 billion dollars for five years of TV rights. I don't know how much you follow MMA, but the UFC was the first professional sports league to return to action around the time COVID fairly active in 2020; the ESPN TV deal was a main reason why. UFC has to air I believe 30 events on ESPN to get their annual payout. The TV deal is a main reason why despite the fact they don't have a PPV cash cow, they haven't been hurting for money. For better or for worse, I have to imagine having to pay the annual ESPN+ fees ON TOP of the fees for each UFC PPV stops a ton of folks from paying for individual PPV; the guaranteed TV revenue alleviates a ton of demand the old UFC model had for PPV sales since the prior TV deals weren't as lucrative.
Keep in mind that only covers the US. I know the UFC partners with a company named BT Sports in England, but I have no clue what arrangement they have.
Getting back to my original post, I wonder if Endeavor will try to get more money elsewhere for a US-based TV deal. I dunno how successful they will be trying to strike out on their own, but I could easily be wrong because I have to imagine they have a gameplan to stream both WWE and the UFC as a package.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
i stand corrected. $150M for the cable rights definitely seems like an overpay tho given that FOX pays $200M for Smackdown with like 4x the audience. there may be market correction next time around.
but even still, those TV rights are a much smaller portion of the net revenue for UFC than they are for WWE. best i can tell, they make almost $700M a year off of those rights incl FOX, NBC, and Peacock. thats more than 50% of their total revenue, but less than 25% for UFC.
i think my general point holds up that they make their money in different ways.
7. "I don't have the numbers" In response to Reply # 5
but I know of two somewhat recent sponsorship deals the UFC made (Cypto.com and the Rock's ugly as hell sneakers) where they didn't share a single solitary dime with the fighters in terms of revenue sharing. I doubt it amounts to as much as the TV rights deal, but it does add up for Endeavor I'm sure.
Now that I think about it, the UFC made another sponsorship deal with some beverage Logan Paul and some youtuber named KIS concocted. I assuming the fighters aren't getting a share of the revenue from that deal either, but I don't know for certain.
Also, $1.5 billion divided by the five years of the ESPN TV deal should be $300M, not $150M that you typed in your response to me, unless you have another reason why you divided the number in half I'm not aware of.
Pardon me if I'm appear to be snarky about this; I just happened to be curious about the power sharing of this deal and I have a fair amount of disdain in terms of how much Dana White underpays the fighters. That disdain may spill out in my responses to this thread.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
High Society Member since Oct 13th 2003 7375 posts
Tue Apr-04-23 04:36 PM
6. "Annnd Vince was back in control on Monday Night..." In response to Reply # 0
Some key players that wrestled over the weekend not on tv Monday Night. Seth had his promo cut while lights out standing in the ring asking for mic during commercial break.
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