"So y’all gonna act like Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are cool with..."
being AD bait?
All this concern about the young Lakers being in their feelings after being trade bait, those 2 guys were a game away from the Finals and Ainge has all but said he’d give them away for AD in a heartbeat.
How are they supposed to stay focused and continue to play hard for Boston knowing they’ll probably be on their way to New Orleans once the season is over.
4. "We can talk about it after they get drubbed by 40" In response to Reply # 0 Sun Feb-10-19 08:29 AM by Cenario
With their best player on the floor
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
10. "One team got puposefully manipulated...one didnt" In response to Reply # 9
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
11. "who "manipulated" who? the difference is the Laker players..." In response to Reply # 10
on the trade block are really nobodies in the grand scheme of things.
The young Celtics that are potentially on the trade block were the stars of the team that was a game away from the Finals and thought they were the future of the franchise going forward.
i mean the lakers put themselves at the center of this and they also got their asses handed to them but the pacers without their best player.
as far as the celtics, it's pretty evident they couldn't keep the roster from last year. any team would have to consolidate and ainge's philosophy is always consolidate. not sure where the comparison lies here. the celtics don't have the minutes or cap space to keep tatum, brown, irving, hayward, smart and everyone together. the lakers could, if they felt like it, have lebron+kuzma+hart+ball+ingram going forward. i am not saying they should but it isn't an analogous situation to boston's at all.
the fallacy with boston is the usual "false sum" thinking. people thought their overachieving in the playoffs could last and simply absorb two established stars and get another 45 points/14 assists/10 rebounds out of them. it doesn't work that way in a team sport, obviously.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
>as far as the celtics, it's pretty evident they couldn't keep >the roster from last year. any team would have to consolidate >and ainge's philosophy is always consolidate. not sure where >the comparison lies here. the celtics don't have the minutes >or cap space to keep tatum, brown, irving, hayward, smart and >everyone together. the lakers could, if they felt like it, >have lebron+kuzma+hart+ball+ingram going forward. i am not >saying they should but it isn't an analogous situation to >boston's at all. > >the fallacy with boston is the usual "false sum" thinking. >people thought their overachieving in the playoffs could last >and simply absorb two established stars and get another 45 >points/14 assists/10 rebounds out of them. it doesn't work >that way in a team sport, obviously.
Obviously the Lakers "young core" and Boston's young core are in 2 different spaces.
I feel like some roster decisions for Boston will make themselves. Kyrie will likely opt out this summer and look for a max deal. Boston has to decide whether or not they want to give it to him. They are likely stuck with the Hayward deal. Horford is getting long in the tooth so any major trade Boston is involved in is going to center around Tatum and Brown. I don't think the Pelicans are giving up AD for Smart and Rozier.
20. "ok i'd agree with most of that but i don't see how it adds up to the OP" In response to Reply # 15
quite possible that boston doesn't make any significant trades. will be a lot of teams after AD and i wouldn't say boston is the frontrunner. if they are sweating what-ifs, then they aren't built for this.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
16. ""Quit making this about thinking these guys are babies..." In response to Reply # 0
"...because that's what you're treating them like. They're professionals. All of them. And this is how this league works. They know it, I know it -- that's how it goes." (c) Magic Johnson.
18. "Jury is still out on GM Magic too." In response to Reply # 16 Mon Feb-11-19 10:00 PM by RandomFact
Lakers fans better hope his GM career is better than his broadcasting/analyst career because the guy kinda sucked at that and provided little to no insight. Like, I wouldn't hire the guy for a GM role after hearing his analysis in previous years.
24. "exactly - the young celtics were brought into a great system" In response to Reply # 21
and really benefited from it. Tatum is the real deal and understandably arguably the best out of the crop (though I think he and Kuz are really on-par).
But I think the trio of Kuz, Zo & BI have more upside than Tatum, Rozier & Brown in the long-run. The question is, can Boston offer the additional icing on the cake that the Lakers just offered? (Zubac, Hart, Rondo, draft picks etc..) essentially giving the Pels everything they ask for? And for a one-year rental?
No.
There's no way Boston even offers the trio (Tatum, Rozier, Brown) for AD.
What's likely is that Ainge offers up Rozier, Brown and draft picks or some iteration of that, which will be a fraction of the talent that the Lakers were just willing to let go of.
Again, Pels may have won the short-term emo battle, but will they win the long-term business decision war? Unlikely.
26. "careful Vex...your new Laker agenda is colliding with your Bron" In response to Reply # 24 Tue Feb-12-19 12:28 PM by Stadiq
agenda.
No question Brad Stevens is a better coach than Walton, but to act like everything last year is credited to the system is...dishonest.
Those dudes balled out last year, and the team has under-performed this season with more talent.
Theres no way Boston would trade those guys for the Laker 3...LA would do it in a heart beat.
If LA ends up keeping their guys, you just set the bar by claiming they are better than the core that took Bron to 7.
Hell, that statement even makes this season questionable. So Bron joined up with a young core that is better than the squad that took him to 7, and 2/3 of said core regressed and looks lost and scared much of the time...under Bron's leadership?
Even if you're just talking 'upside'- how did 2/3 go backwards?
Is Brad Stevens a better leader than Bron?
Or is it because the East is/was weak now? You downplayed how weak/awful the east was for 8 years to prop up finals runs.
You might want to calibrate a little bit. Trying to build up Zo and BI might hurt some of your other agendas.
I don't even have a dog in this fight, but its odd to see Bron agendas and Laker agendas collide like this.
32. "everyone has a bias here - some just try to feign objective." In response to Reply # 26
>No question Brad Stevens is a better coach than Walton, but to >act like everything last year is credited to the system >is...dishonest.
Not everything can be attributed to the system - but Boston also just had a better team than L.A. last year. Kyrie was there for a good part of the season - and the team is anchored by multi-all-star veteran Al Horford. The team also had great depth on the bench and a nice blend of veteran leadership and young emerging talent. Lakers didn't have that luxury last year - it was all young kids in their early 20's.
> So >Bron joined up with a young core that is better than the squad >that took him to 7, and 2/3 of said core regressed and looks >lost and scared much of the time...under Bron's leadership? > >Even if you're just talking 'upside'- how did 2/3 go >backwards?
I never said that Bron joined a better team. Boston would've clearly been the better team for Bron to joint - as would have Philly. LeBron didn't choose the best team - he did what he always does: he went to a mediocre and/or struggling team to re-build it into a champion. That's what he did in Miami and Cleveland - and that's why he looks to do now.
But you say that 2/3rds of the young core have regressed - and I don't know if that's the case. Lonzo has been injured - but when healthy - he has really played well. B.I. has also had his moments - and has pretty much stayed at bay w/ where he was last year. Kuz has taken big steps forward.
As far as Boston - they also have 2/3rds of their young core regress - and arguably all 3. Brown has struggled for most of this year - as has Rozier. Tatum has the typical sophomore slump to start the year and hasn't had the kind of year he had last year - but he's obviously still the most coveted out of the 6. But is he that much better than Kuz? No - in fact - Kuz has had a better year this year than Tatum has had.
So i stand by my statement: The Lakers core 3 (Kuz, Zo & BI) have a higher ceiling (in terms of the overall balance of the 3) than Tatum, Rozier & Brown.
But the fun thing is: we'll see the truth play out.
25. "Ingram in 18-19: -3.1 BPM; Kuzma: -1.2 BPM" In response to Reply # 21
Though I kind of hate this version of plus-minus, -3.1 IS way worse than -.2.
And this is a dumb argument that you're making because your team just made a shitton of roster upgrades and you're feeling yourself regarding your non-shooting ball handler whose job just got like 70x easier. If Tatum had as many touches in an offense that allowed him to never take tough shots, his stats would line up much more favorably to Simmons's, and you know this.
Simmons is great, Tatum is great, and they'll both be really good for a long time. Calm down.
31. "Goddamn you mad. Relax." In response to Reply # 25
Nobody said Tatum wasn’t a good prospect, although I notice you left out lonzo, who is only a year older and has the same or better metrics.
I posted this not to argue the Celtics core isn’t better. It is, and it’s more promising. I’m just more surprised at how much merit the Celtic veteran bitching has. In particular, people need to stop acting like Tatum’s a sure fire all star. He’s regressed pretty badly this year, right as the team has relied more on him. Same thing with Brown too. The numbers suggest the Celtics can put together a better package, but by no means is it overwhelming.
Now maybe Tatum turns into a star starting tonight and they go to the Finals. If I were you, I’d bookmark this thread in case that happens. In the meantime, all Boston’s young players have clearly regressed this year.
---- bshelly
"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God
34. "We all know who'll be to blame if Philly flames out in the offs" In response to Reply # 33
With all this talent. And it ain't Jojo or Jimmy. Fucking Philly fans, making a fun-ass team annoying with every breath.
As for Tatum, when he's a Pel next year, we'll get to see what his numbers can really look like. My guess is he'll have more points and a better 3PT FG% than Ben, regardless.
36. "Dog, do they put ketamine in the fucking Cheez Whiz up there?" In response to Reply # 35
Can't be this illiterate from birth. I never said Tatum would be better, never campaigned for Tatum to go to NO (he just IS going to go there unless NY gets the #1 pick and puts a lot in a package), and have literally zero idea why you think Tatum ain't gonna do anything in NO even though he's 20 and BEAT YOUR GUY IN THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR (like, it has to be fucking ketamine; why else would your memory be such mush?).
All I said is stop getting ahead of yourself by being so excited that a kid a year and a half younger than your dude is having a slight regression year b/c your team just sold out for this season. Like, this shit could literally bite you in the ass in two months, while my argument has a goddamn decade to gestate.
And, no, it isn't Tatum's fault that Hayward is useless and that he has to suddenly learn to become a playmaker (while still putting up very damn solid numbers) while Ben's inability to be a finisher has been smoothed over by no one ever being able to focus on him while he's on the court since he's surrounded by four superior scorers these days.
30. "For one thing, the question is how NOLA views the assets" In response to Reply # 21
If the Pelicans thought the Lakers had assets on par with/better than Boston they would've made a deal with them already. Keep in mind we have draft picks from other teams floating around too, so even if we agree the players are even Boston still has a better package to offer.
Regardless, I think Tatum has the most star potential out of anyone discussed, and it appears NOLA feels the same way. I'd say a Celtics-Pelicans deal is still unlikely, but the fact that it's a possibility has upped the price for the Lakers, who in turn have looked like shit by whining that they didn't get their way.
I know the premature confetti and 1-point Ben thing from last year still stings, but your hurt feelings are inching closer to a "Tatum sucks" agenda and I don't want you to embarrass yourself. I'm looking out for you shells!
29. ""Quit making this about thinking these guys are babies" In response to Reply # 0
because that's what you're treating them like," Johnson said. "They're professionals. All of them. And this is how this league works. They know it, I know it -- that's how it goes."
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