5. "Kareem, Jordan then anyone else. " In response to Reply # 0
>Sad. > >It's one thing for this goal post moving to come from fans, >but it's sad when it comes directly from the player. > >And no, this isn't because of the social media and the access >to the players thoughts. It's cuz of him. > >And no you're not the GOAT cuz you beat the Warriors 1 out of >4 times. That shit even sounded ridiculous as I typed it. > >You gotta get 5 before I even start taking you seriously. Cut >it out. > >And before you already come with the "OMG what about Robert >Horry (or who else was a role player on title teams)..." >responses you already lost. > >https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-crowns-goat-2016-finals-win-warriors-054617507.html > > > >
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
30. "It's absolutely astonishing to me that people skip over Cap like he neve..." In response to Reply # 5
existed.
One can be a Jordan fan, Lebron fan, or whatever. Being a fan of the sport itself though, it is unfathomable to have the conversation and not include Kareem as the starting point.
>existed. > >One can be a Jordan fan, Lebron fan, or whatever. Being a fan >of the sport itself though, it is unfathomable to have the >conversation and not include Kareem as the starting point.
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
7. "Apparently you don’t understand what the chip meant to Cleveland " In response to Reply # 0
That chip was the GREATEST feat in the history of sports (team sports that is).
No team sports could ever be comparable to Bron winning a chip in Cleveland. It would be different if Bron never got drafted by Cleveland in the first place. For him to understand what it meant to bring a championship to Northeast Ohio, but the manner I which the Cavs won the chip... then yeah he get all the props and then some.
11. "interesting how he explains it from a team perspective to switch to the" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Jan-01-19 08:04 AM by rl9
"I". it would be a more accurate debate if he was just talking about team comebacks.
That Golden State team was not the GOAT team btw. The Durant version has a way better case tho.
Anyway, no suprises here. this is the same guy that was crowned the king before he won shit, had a chosen one tat across his back and came into the league that already was heavy on the "next jordan"- narrative since 1993. not the first one to push that agenda himself (hi kobe), still petty. he didn't invent that media narrative, still shows you a major lack of respect for and/or knowledge of history tho. as much as they like to preach that team sport narrative in post games etc. almost all of the stars fall for the cult of personality.
Dude always had funny styles in that regard. like choosing 23, then switching to 6 in miami because MJ needed to be "respected", campaigning for 23 being retired league wide (read: Riley already retired that number and he knew Miami was his next move) and then again back to 23 in Cleveland?
shouldn't we all be tired of these debates by now? guess not if your ego is involved.
"That was, like, one of the only times in my career I felt like ‘Oh s—, you did something special.’ I haven’t really had time to really sit back and think, but that, that was a moment."
cmon man. sit back and think? well, lucky we now have this new media format to do that. lol
i'd like to consult harry allen here.
''i went from bashful to asshole to international''- CdoubleO
All of this faux-outrage over LeBron having the confidence in himself to say that he's the greatest is absurd.
You don't think Mike thinks/says he's the Greatest? Kobe? At least LeBron has the confidence to say it in a public forum. And yes - he absolutely has a viable case.
but that's really a minor distinction when we're talking about athletes with the self-confidence to declare their own greatness.
Ali was lambasted at the time for his outspoken demeanor - and is now heralded as the most beloved athlete of all time by so many.
It's not that LeBron declared himself The Greatest that bothers you - you were already bothered by him and this just gives you more fuel to flame your disdain for him.
But any sober analyst will point to the 2016 Finals Achievement as the greatest title in NBA history - and one of (if not *the*) greatest comebacks in any sport's history. You add the Cleveland drought to the equation and what the title meant for Cleveland, en masse - and yea - it's a GOAT achievement by any barometer.
47. "you wanted to talk about "participation trophies" " In response to Reply # 41
that shit had nothing to do with GOAT conversation or LeBron, don't back off now loser, let's talk about what you've earned that makes you qualified to discuss who deserves what
45. "Jordan never won a playoff series w/ out Pippen" In response to Reply # 40 Wed Jan-02-19 06:27 PM by Vex_id
and always had 2 all stars riding with him with a great complementary bunch of role players.
It's just what it is.
The year Jordan "retired" for baseball - the Bulls experienced very little drop-off --- they went from winning 57 games (with Jordan) to 55 games without him - and were a botched call away from vying for a yet another title. Pip also finished 3rd that year in MVP voting. Jordan had an MVP-caliber sidekick and an elite team buoying him, and nobody wants to talk about it.
81. "which would make great sense to account for in a GOAT discussion." In response to Reply # 73 Fri Jan-04-19 04:14 PM by Vex_id
Rings are essential - you can't be considered a GOAT if you've never been a champion. But people always had Wilt and Bird in the GOAT discussion and never penalized them for their ring-count. Why? Because they had won enough to warrant entry into the conversation.
Being a 3-time champion is absolutely sufficient to warrant a GOAT discussion *if* the case can be made in other essential categories - such as: MVPs, Finals MVPs, playoff stats, depth of playoff runs etc...and LeBron's GOATness is undisputed in the aforementioned categories.
Rings are also team achievements more than they are individual accomplishments.
When it comes to individual achievement - the only other player in the game's history who will be on-par with LeBron is Kareem.
You can't ignore rings in a GOAT discussion, just as you can't ignore individual achievement.
28. "It was a GOAT moment" In response to Reply # 0
The players on that GOAT level usually have some headlining achievements to really set themselves apart from those that were just very very good.
I think coming back from 3-1 against the best regular season team in NBA history is a GOAT level achievement, but lesser than Russell's 11 rings, Jordan's perfect 6/6 finals records, or Kareem's dominance at all levels + the scoring record.
I think his resume already had him in the GOAT discussion but that title made his inclusion unquestionable. I just don't think it puts him over the top as THE BEST EVER.
35. "RE: It was a GOAT moment" In response to Reply # 28
>The players on that GOAT level usually have some headlining >achievements to really set themselves apart from those that >were just very very good. > >I think coming back from 3-1 against the best regular season >team in NBA history is a GOAT level achievement, but lesser >than Russell's 11 rings, Jordan's perfect 6/6 finals records, >or Kareem's dominance at all levels + the scoring record. > >I think his resume already had him in the GOAT discussion but >that title made his inclusion unquestionable. I just don't >think it puts him over the top as THE BEST EVER.
I like that assessment, and tend to agree. Right now I have:
(1) Jordan (2) Bron (3) Kareem
But I think that Bron can still get to that #1 slot if a wins another title in L.A. He will have the analytic and statistical dominance re: individual achievement on lock in another 4 years - but I do think he needs another GOAT-level achievement to top MJ. And I do think that winning one in L.A. (turning around a team that had more losses than any other team in the past 5 years) in *this* competitive climate would be very compelling as he would have 3 titles at 3 different franchises to supplement his undeniable individual achievements.
The Cleveland title put him in the GOAT discussion - and now he needs one more GOAT-level strap to solidify the top slot.
63. "RE: medium heat = exact diagnosis" In response to Reply # 38
Cuz If he takes a 3rd team in the west, the talk heats up But if the team he takes is him, kd, rondo and kawhi, the talk cools but tingles, like icyhot
)))--####---###--(((
bunda <-.-> ^_^ \^0^/ get busy living, or get busy dying.
"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins
61. "Lol this post a mess. " In response to Reply # 0
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
72. "Lol now this is interesting" In response to Reply # 69
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Fri Jan-04-19 05:54 PM
83. "LeBron is in the convos... He has a right to his feelings" In response to Reply # 0 Fri Jan-04-19 05:55 PM by auragin_boi
Doesn't mean history will prove him right.
Kareem needed magic (and vice versa), worthy and a slew of HOFers to win 5 and 20 yrs to net all those records Bird had McHale, Parrish and multiple HOFers to get 4. Wilt stat padded and lost most of his career. Russell lacks offensive stats, played when 2 rounds got you a ring basically, and played for the cheat code version of NBA franchises (slew of HOFers) and one of the goat coaches. Jordan was 1-9 in playoffs without Pippen (lol) didn't best the stacked teams of the 80's with shit teams, got his ass handed to him by the Pistons (until he got help) and probably hurt his legacy with the stop and go retirement regiment.
All flawed careers.
Bron? Retreated to an alliance in his prime, played with 5 Bonafide HOFers and went 3-5 with the help, nutted up in a finals his team should have won (Dallas), was a Ray Allen corner 3 from going 1-3 in Miami, his GOAT achievement happened because he was losing 3-1 and got a bout of luck (Bogut injury, who was slowing down Kyrie's penetration, Draymond getting suspended in the finals due to a dumb ass rule that didn't exist in any prior era)... And also included someone else taking the clutch shot to win it.
84. "Jay-Z talked people into thinking he’s the GOAT" In response to Reply # 0
I don’t have a problem with LeBron thinking he’s the best ever or anyone over the age of 35 that watched basketball growing up thinking he’s the best they’ve ever seen either.
It’s the young cats I got a problem with. Just say he’s the best you ever saw and keep it moving. Don’t try to tell me shit about Mike or Kareem or anyone else.
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