The last post lasted 3 months! That's gotta be a record length for us. Enthusiasm for the product is at its lowest in a long time and WWE has been seeing some pretty empty arenas. Really a shame considering they've never had more talent.

Just for the record, I have to pass this spreadsheet on after Mania (if anyone is willing to take it). It's just too time-consuming for a thing I'm losing interest in. Anyway, here are your TLC predictions!!


https://tinyurl.com/OKPTLC

Outside of Mania season these last few years have been a real struggle to stay interested. If it weren't for the backlog of Raws and PPVs from the 90's and early 2000's I wouldn't even still have my Network subscription. I honestly wish there were different tiers of subscriptions where a cheaper version came with just retro shit. I guess NXT and UK weekly shows get watched occasionally, but really the only thing I'm excited for coming out of WWE are NXT Takeovers (which they nail every single time).

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, WWE's biggest problem is there is too much god damn wrestling. On the main roster I can't think of any match up I'm dreaming of, I've quite literally already seen everything. Matches are wasted with no build then rinsed, washed and repeated over and over. There is so much in-ring talent, it's at an all-time high, but creative is at an all-time low, but at the same time I wish they wouldn't let these guys go 80%+ on Raw and SD. Save that for the PPV. Besides it being on a Sunday night, there is nothing special about PPVs anymore. We can see great matches on Raw and SD, the production/stage/etc is just as flashy on the weekly shows and if you're watching a PPV chances are there was a PPV or Network special 2-3 weeks ago. I tuned into SD the other night and saw all the ladders and tables set up, hell, they had a frigging TLC match on Raw! Why should I care about this PPV again?

But, Royal Rumble is just around the corner and we're all gonna get sucked right back in just like every other year. And Vince knows it. The product can be shit for months on end and all he needs to do is pop us at the Rumble, give us a good Mania card and give us some debuts on the Raw the next night and we'll act surprised a few months later when the product is shit again. Cause we're wrestling fans. And we're fickle.

NXT works because they write to build the characters. They work to build motivations for everything, and the Takeovers are guideposts that allow them to make big character decisions- though they don't have to wait for those. And if you build it that way, you can make the events seem bigger.

On the main roster, everything is written to build the event. Motivations can be picked up and dropped as the event schedule demands. They're getting better at it on Smackdown, but Raw is an incredibly low bar.

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

i was flicking thru wrassle twitter last night and i saw one of the writers whining about "waaaaaaaaah its so hard to write a good program with all the hours we have to fill" and seth rollins gets on an RTs it like "oh you fans just dont understand it's sooooo difficult"

Get
The
Fuck
Out
Of
Here

niggas got about 5 rosters worth of talent and 4 or 5 shows and a ZILLON writers*** and you can't even put together a show that has internal continuity and logic just within the episode, let alone week to week. i could write their whole TV slate by myself and it'd be better than what they come up with.

***that's half the problem right there. too many writers.

<--- Big Baller World Order

>
>niggas got about 5 rosters worth of talent and 4 or 5 shows
>and a ZILLON writers*** and you can't even put together a show
>that has internal continuity and logic just within the
>episode, let alone week to week. i could write their whole TV
>slate by myself and it'd be better than what they come up
>with.
>
>***that's half the problem right there. too many writers.

the writers come up with all sorts of great ideas and Vince rejects 99% of them.

I honestly wish there were
>different tiers of subscriptions where a cheaper version came
>with just retro shit.

I was thinking about this but would go the opposite route myself. Don't have time to catch up on old stuff (and I caught up on most of the stuff I wanted already), but I'd love a $5 live feed/current stuff subscription.

The product can be shit for months on end and
>all he needs to do is pop us at the Rumble, give us a good
>Mania card and give us some debuts on the Raw the next night
>and we'll act surprised a few months later when the product is
>shit again. Cause we're wrestling fans. And we're fickle.

You're probably right but I think they're really playing with fire this time though. They have more competition than they've had in the last 2 decades and EVERYONE is talking about how bad their product is. I don't think they really care about ratings that much (they always blame football), but attendance is dipping a bit and that should scare them. I've seen some recent pics opposite hard cam and it looks like a TNA show from a few years back.

Around this time in most years it is pretty obvious who the 2 or 3 rumble contenders are and who wrestlemania will be built around, but this year, does anyone seem to have any forward momentum to main event mania?

Braun- Has been cooled beyond belief, maybe he will do it still, but it definitely was not built well to get there

Seth- Seems a likely favorite for Rumble win, especially if he loses on Sunday, he can fill the spot easy and main event any card, but that is really just plugging him in, they certainly have not built him to Mania main event story level currently

Drew Mcintyre- This is really the only guy with any forward momentum, if they keep pushing him hard he could be a Rumble winner, but he also feels a little uninspiring to me as a main main event. Literally the only guy moving forward though.

AJ- Maybe, but he is so involved in this Bryan storyline that I can't see it maintaining until Mania, doubt they send him to Raw

Finn- LOL. Similar to Seth, he could get plugged in and not be an issue, but he sure is not on a pace that makes sense

Miz- Felt like he could main event a few months ago, but now he is in this stupid storyline with Shane, why is he getting cooled down?

Seriously, who is the mania main event this year? Who is winning the Rumble, and what justification is there so far for them to be in that spot?

<--- Big Baller World Order

The women are closing Mania for sure this year. Between Becky/Charlotte and Ronda, I hope we get a 3 way honestly

But main event mania now never really refers to just the last match, like who are the men fighting for the 2 titles and who is winning the rumble?

Not enough to call it just yet, but I don't think Vince can possibly be stubborn enough to ignore this.

but it's possible it's a one-on-one with her and ronda and charlotte just gets involved.

but you're right that the momentum is all off for every dude on the roster. It's still crazy to me that they've fucked up Braun's momentum completely.

One site was saying The Rock was penciled in to win and challenge Roman but the plan changed when Roman left. Other people disputed that, but it's believable enough and this is a weird year where they could pull some shit like that.

Yes, WWE main roster product is stale now. I've found other things to do with my Monday nights and I'll tune into Smackdown because it is a bit better than Raw. But there are other promotions out there who put on a really good show that actually make sense.

Wrestle Kingdom 13 is on Jan. 4th. Just sayin, you could always start there and watch New Years Dash the next day.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

and a huge part of that is their app and their website sucks. I'm pretty smart and I find it to be impossible to navigate even when it's translated.

It's called NJPWext. Not only does it translate automatically it also organizes the matches a bit better. I watch on the Xbox using the edge browser but I don't find the site that bad to navigate, then again I've gotten used to it by now to the point I can find anything I need.

It's the best money I spend on wrestling and some of those cards I take off of work the next day just so I can stay up and watch when it airs live.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

The main show has always started at 7pm est since they went back to being Raw/Smackdown on same show.

=================
Official Okay-Super Villain™

I only play the games that I win at -
Gamertag: Innovator
PSN: DurtyGambino
Steam: Durty Gambino
Twitch.tv/durtygambino

Which was the cruiserweights around 6:30 EST

If Charlotte doesn't have a broken rib or 2 she isn't human

I thought she was great against Charlotte, and did well against Nia Jaxx
tonight too. I don’t watch Raw anymore so not sure if the promos have improved at all, but she’s bringing it in these PPVs and getting better. I’m glad she’s having real matches and not just no selling and doing the same couple moves in squash matches. She earned my respect taking that beating against Charlotte, and she made Nia look
good while still looking strong. I’m sold.

That was fucking dumb.

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

I'd prefer a clean ending to a classic match, but it's about long term storytelling and the story is this triple threat at Mania.

They didn’t show Becky. We’ll get Becky/Asuka on the pre-show. They learned absolutely nothing from WCW.

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

This is going to be a triple threat match. She could easily have just cost Charlotte the match, she cost them both the match.

She clearly screwed both of them.

Becky was the champ.

Becky will be the one the fans are behind.

Triple threat match.

Regardless, Charlotte is still the greatest. I know it’s cool how Becky caught fire and all. But Charlotte is....the best. Easily.

I get the Charlotte hate because people love Becky and hate anyone who is just constantly put in the spot, but Charlotte is the greatest. She's top 3 performer on the roster male or female and her character development during the match was amazing.

She is not Roman Reigns or Cena being shoved there too early when it isn't earned, she is their top star. Becky is hot right now and you ride the hot hand, but people talk about Charlotte like she doesn't deserve to be a focus of the show.

All that said, this is clearly a triple threat match set up for Mania.

I mean we knew it, but it's official now

For the “known.” FFS.

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

This is the same company that nerfed Asuka until oh, two weeks ago, put the title back on Lesnar after Reigns had to drop the title.

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

They are telling a 3 way rivalry. There is no way this isn't a triple threat at mania baring an injury or something

Shit, if not for the Curtain Call, I don't know that Austin happens for them.

It's a good story if they do the triple threat, but I don't think they'll pull the trigger on including Becky. From Vince's perspective, they don't need to. They were able to test-balloon Charlotte versus Ronda and everyone loved it when Charlotte broke out the Kendo. So what do they need Becky for? They've already got Rousey and the daughter of Ric Flair to put on Sportscenter between January and April.

Plus they can just have Becky chase her title back. They have an out, and I don't trust Vince McMahon with an out.

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

1 would be the schmoz finish to the Rubmle where Charlotte and Becky tie or some controversy happens and it just results in a triple threat match. Maybe they get told you can each challange champ, charlotte chooses Ronda and then Becky does the same thing to a huge roar.

2. Would be they toy with us, annouce charlotte vs Ronda really early, like in January but Becky wins the Rumble and instead of taking the easy 1 on 1 match she jumps into the already announced match.

I just can't see them blowing this one, it is their mania main event and the 3 biggest stars they have right now.

They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to include Daniel Bryan in that. The most over dude in YEARS, and they had to Rube Goldberg him into the main event.

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

i dont see how this women's thing doesnt end up as a triple threat.

<--- Big Baller World Order

Ronda, Charlotte, and Becky are probably their three most over and interesting stars right now. Isn't that what you want at the top of your show? It seems like a rare situation where EVERYONE wins - the fans, the company, the performers themselves. Vince gets his mainstream attention, the fans get a great match, the girls get legend status.

And honestly, Ronda marching down felt too much like Lesnar at Hell in a Cell to me. 🤷‍♂️

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Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

I just think they're doing this one right, it's been done perfectly so far and last night was the big move

Nothing about last night suggests anything but a triple threat. In fact, if it is a one-on-one I think it's more likely they go Lynch vs. Rousey and run back Charlotte-Asuka (after running Charlotte-Ronda again at the Rumble).

Four ways are rarely good, but on paper it would check all of the boxes

- legacy pro wrestler in Charlotte
- mainstream athlete in Ronda
- Asian representative
- European representative

suddenly, it's an international mega match

tho I hope they don't include Asuka. The promos are going to be too important and she can't really cut them. Sorry if that comes off xenophobic.

Ronda Rousey
Ric Flair’s daughter
Irish girl Stone Cold

In an all female main event for the first time ever? It’s an ATM machine

You can tour these three women around. And knowing that’s the set in stone main event going into the show only makes for even more anticipation. I think it’s realistic.

You gotta pull out all the stops.

Now Becky probably doesn’t win that match. But who knows.

>
>Ronda Rousey
>Ric Flair’s daughter
>Irish girl Stone Cold
>
>In an all female main event for the first time ever? It’s an
>ATM machine
>
>You can tour these three women around. And knowing that’s
>the set in stone main event going into the show only makes for
>even more anticipation. I think it’s realistic.
>
>You gotta pull out all the stops.
>
>Now Becky probably doesn’t win that match. But who knows.

She could Benoit/Eddie Mania XX that shit and come out with the win. As always, the aftermath booking is more key.

Also, heel Ronda gives us a shot at a really good time here. If they do heel Flair too, then Becky is set up amazingly.

https://youtu.be/FhoZ40puo2A?t=1282

my guy is WYLIN as a heel lmao.

<--- Big Baller World Order

To be the biggest babyface of a decade, and turn around into a heel that gets actually booed, not Xpac heat, not cheered because he is cool, but booed because the crowd actually respects his heel work.

Not only that but to basically unveil an adapted all new move set to work more as a heel.

He is an all timer

>To be the biggest babyface of a decade, and turn around into
>a heel that gets actually booed, not Xpac heat, not cheered
>because he is cool, but booed because the crowd actually
>respects his heel work.
>
>Not only that but to basically unveil an adapted all new move
>set to work more as a heel.
>
>He is an all timer

The babyface run is his genius on display. This heel run is like a return to his American Dragon shit...down to the small package! It damn sure is fun. And it was a good call. WWE actually has a few good calls rolling in the midst of their broken Raw format dragging them down. NXT is still a paradise of 80s love letter goodness with best Indy ever match quality. And the stories!? The ridiculously good characters? The more committed booking! Good times.

To me, the Dean turn was a great call that has since been amazingly botched. Horrible situation overall. I wonder when they knew Roman was possibly gone. And I wonder who thought that tlc match layout was what anyone wanted.

It sucks like hell that they didn’t want to pull the trigger on Get These Hands because of backstage shortcomings. Big boy might’ve screwed himself forever with that shit if true. He certainly screwed us out of a fun title run that would’ve booked itself. He could have been Brock with more appearances, fun title defenses where folks throw everything at him to try to win and occasional gags and jokes. He could’ve gotten a lot folks over by having good showings against him.

I know for sure that I will be amped when Brock goes away without the title for a while. I dgaf what other examples folks can show me, not having an existing big belt champ on Mondays is bullshit and it ruins the show BEFORE we get the horrid 20 minute setups and 1.5 hours of fluff to further ruin it. It’s unwatchable without ffwd. I’m basically retired from even forwarding through it most weeks until Mania season.

And the IC title ain’t a fair replacement. Cena did grand work making the belt gain some weight but still...it ain’t the same as having a main dude to go after and build stories around. It ruins the midcard and jobbers too. Why would I care about any of those fools? Their feuds ain’t shit. They aren’t getting title shots. Their random matches just fill the time. Getting over is an accident. It’s a bad format.

<--- Big Baller World Order