7. "if Tua wins they just need to call it the Steve Nash Award" In response to Reply # 0
the Heisman has been convoluted into this Steve Nash MVP formula where only wins matter so it will obviously be Tua.
my vote for Heisman and O'Brien is Kyler Murray, but he may only get the O'Brien, if that. -- had 2 100 yard games, 2 90 yard games, 2 70 yard games -- only averaged less than 5 ypc in two games -- 892 rushin yards, 7.3 YPC, 11 TDs. only 123 attempts.
really impressed with Haskins push at the end to solidify himself as a contender
3 quarterbacks threw for 4000+ yards this year. pass attempts to get there: Haskins (4580): 496 Minshew (4477): 613 Murray (4053): 340
he has arguably the best passing stats (but again, Haskins the last 3 games did shoot a little hole into this post) and then ran for that.
no player has * E V E R * done what Murray did this season. we are going to give it to Tua bc he balled hard at Bama? a lot of people balled hard this year.
dont want this to seem as Tua hate but in the eternal words of RexLongFellow, Come On Man.
16. "Pretty simple experiment: " In response to Reply # 12
>Tua winning it would be like when Ingram won in '09. A >player on the best team award.
What is Alabama like without Tua this year?
They are also undefeated and demolishing teams
The stats are less gaudy but Hurts was SEC Offensive player of the years as a Freshman. He's already lead an undefeated team to within a Deshaun Watson drive of the championship.
Think about Oklahoma without Murray?
Bwahhahahahahahahahahhahah
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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
> >He's actually been better than everyone by a comfortable >margin > >---------------------------- > > > >O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain" > > > > >"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..." > >(C)Keith Murray, "
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
13. "it will be Murray because..." In response to Reply # 0
1. his team is in the last four 2. unlike Tua he played the whole game (and has better stats as a result - i know this is not Tua's fault it's just facts). 3. Tua just struggled against GA and Hurts bailed the team out. This is a voters final impression of Tua this year.
it probably should go to Tua but points number 2 and 3 give voters a cop out to not vote Tua.
20. "Well, Austin Kendall may have put up better passing numbers than Murray" In response to Reply # 18
He’s not nearly as mobile and he was actually hurt for most of September, but he is more of a traditional pocket passer ala Bradford and with the OU line having maybe 4 or 5 NFL starters on it (same as Bama?), he could have racked up insane throwing numbers. We will see next year.
23. "LOL. We don't need bullshit hypotheticals with Alabama. " In response to Reply # 20 Tue Dec-04-18 07:50 AM by Orbit_Established
>He’s not nearly as mobile and he was actually hurt for most >of September, but he is more of a traditional pocket passer >ala Bradford and with the OU line having maybe 4 or 5 NFL >starters on it (same as Bama?), he could have racked up insane >throwing numbers. We will see next year.
We already saw Jalen Hurts lead them to an undefeated season and within a drive of the chip as a Freshman. He was SEC Offensive Player of the year, for crying out loud
As for Kyler re: "traditional pocket passer" bwaahahahahah
Every NFL Scouts have been wowed by Kyler's pocket ability. What makes him terrifying is specifically that he doesn't lose any pocket excellence while still being fast and mobile. So Murray is still a finalist even without running. He slings.
25. "I'm Team Murray all day, but the setup is a huge plus" In response to Reply # 23
Not much different, other than the backfield, to last year with Baker, who put up crazy numbers too. With more depth at running back, this offense could have been even better. Austin Kendall is taller and slower, but has a cannon for an arm. He was hurt a good chunk of preseason and September, which is why Murray played late into dusted games (true freshman the only other scholarship QB on the roster). As to scouts, I don't think many are really looking at him seriously given both his size and the contract he already signed. The days of Bo and Deion are over and he's made it pretty clear that he wants to play baseball; can't blame him, though I have no clue what his ceiling is in that sport.
27. "Baker won a Heisman and went #1" In response to Reply # 26
Scouts and execs don't draft on trophy wins; those are just things that happened to have happened. That was because of his talent. Kyler put up huge numbers, too, because of his talent but the system and pieces around him (and pretty much any Heisman QB from a major program) help a lot. He wouldn't be playing at OU if he wasn't massively talented.
28. "you saying Kendall would put up better numbers than Murray is not a good..." In response to Reply # 27
look.
And Murray didn't exactly light it up at Texas A&M so the OU system MAY weigh heavily into his success. Because of his size Murray definitely wouldn't go #1 even without the potential baseball commitment.
>Scouts and execs don't draft on trophy wins; those are just >things that happened to have happened. That was because of his >talent. >Kyler put up huge numbers, too, because of his talent but the >system and pieces around him (and pretty much any Heisman QB >from a major program) help a lot. He wouldn't be playing at OU >if he wasn't massively talented.
Oh and Sam Bradford won a Heisman and was drafted #1 too so that means whatever.
30. "Same situation as Tua/Hurts" In response to Reply # 28
Alabama would have likely been Alabama if Hurts was playing all year. No knock on Tua or Jalen, just speaks to the depth and system around those players as well as their individual top-tier talent as QBs.
36. "exactly so the guy with the best passing numbers of the 3 at least..." In response to Reply # 34
deserves consideration.
>it goes to the best player in college football, not the one >who is most valuable to his team's success. > >The argument about what Bama would be without Tua vs what OU >would be without Murray is completely irrelevant. > >Both of them have a claim on being the best player this year, >but "most valuable" isn't part of it. > >I think Tua gets it because I don't think voters want to give >it to an OU QB 2 years in a row, which isn't really Murray's >fault, but it's reality.
37. "it's relevant in a roundabout way" In response to Reply # 34
>The argument about what Bama would be without Tua vs what OU >would be without Murray is completely irrelevant.
because if your team is stacked with future first round draft picks (hypothetical) then maybe it's less about you and your abilities and more to do with your surrounding cast.
there's absolutely something to be said for carrying your team when they needed you most. when bama needed someone to step up and save their season...it wasn't Tua who did it.
38. "so Murray gets more credit...for losing to Texas?" In response to Reply # 37
>there's absolutely something to be said for carrying your team >when they needed you most. when bama needed someone to step up >and save their season...it wasn't Tua who did it.
41. "he had two turnovers that led to 10 points" In response to Reply # 40
one a bad pick he just misread and the other a soft fumble inside his own red-zone to put Texas up 14. Texas wasn't able to stop him otherwise, but even with OU's horrific defense he contributed to the loss.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here...really all three have their merits.
44. "Tua has the worst bad game of the 3, by miles. " In response to Reply # 41
>one a bad pick he just misread and the other a soft fumble >inside his own red-zone to put Texas up 14. Texas wasn't able >to stop him otherwise, but even with OU's horrific defense he >contributed to the loss. > >I'm just playing devil's advocate here...really all three have >their merits.
He looked dreadful and they lose if Hurts doesn't save them.
45. "Haskins had a mediocore stretch" In response to Reply # 44
where he really fell out of the discussion. the goal line offense was horrid and that probably cost OSU the game at purdue. It also led to the tate martell package which didn't fare much better. I blame this mostly on coaching but having your Heisman caliber qb getting pulled in goal line situations isn't a very good look.
with all that said, his last 3 games were insanely good and very much deserves to be in the discussion. but this season was not without some rough patches.
49. "Haskins not really in it to me. & The Hurts thing kills Tua imo. " In response to Reply # 45
Haskins is an archer, but isn't in the discussion here.
The entire question about Tua was whether the team needed him or not.
His backup was a drive away from a chip, and was SEC Offensive Player of the year, and outplayed him in the SEC Championship. You can't be the best player in college and have that happen.
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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
50. "Even with Haskins mediocre stretch his numbers are still better" In response to Reply # 49
...than both Tua and Kyler Murray.
the Heisman has always largely been predicated on numbers as much as the other intangibles you guys are blabbering about in here.
That Purdue loss isnt on him, but rather Urban Meyer, Ryan Day and Greg Schiano
it should be Haskins, Murray and then Tua
> >Haskins is an archer, but isn't in the discussion >here. > >The entire question about Tua was whether the team >needed him or not. > >His backup was a drive away from a chip, and was SEC >Offensive Player of the year, and outplayed him in the >SEC Championship. You can't be the best player in college >and have that happen. > >---------------------------- > > > >O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain" > > > > >"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..." > >(C)Keith Murray, "
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
he tweaks the offense around his qb and always has. it's why he's one of the ten (five?) best cfb coaches ever, but it's also why no one should confuse haskins, who is exactly as productive as the average urban meyer qb, with tua or murray.
---- bshelly
"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God
66. "Bum ass couldn't even finish his conference game..." In response to Reply # 65
>One of those QBs is undefeated. > >Of course they're playing up the drama to get people to tune >in > >But the running story in college football has been the >unprecedented performance of Bama's offense > >Which was so good games were over by the start of the 4th >quarter > >Now we're suppose to believe the Murray kid is better because >Tua didn't finish the SEC championship game...? > >C'mon > >It's Tua's award.
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
74. "Lol what? Ppl were fellating him all season long " In response to Reply # 71
>Even if it i for show, he SHOULD be getting hype because he >was arguably underrated for most of the season (since Tuamania >sucked up all the oxygen.)
Dual athlete, baseball contract blah blah blah
He got plenty of publicity
>But I think Tua's winning.
------------------- I wanna go to where the martyrs went the brown figures on the walls of my apart-a-ment...
81. "I was wrong, congrats to Kyler" In response to Reply # 0
As I said above, a deserving winner. Historically, it's not great to be the Heisman winner heading into this type of game over someone you beat, but it's a fitting reward for the best pseudo one and done QB season since Cam Newton.
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12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx
87. "Softer than boiled Perdue chicken wings? " In response to Reply # 86
>>Kyler was the better passer than Haskins this year too, > >wrong. > > > so >>even ignoring the hilariously superb rushing stats he still >>was the best QB this year > > >he's not a bad scrambling qb. ive seen better.
Nah sike, you're a good dude, I'm just being a dick ignore me
91. "Yup. Heismen winner figured it out and almost brought them back" In response to Reply # 90
Game went like the season:
Tua throwing dimes to receivers running Antonio Brown routes and making Deandre Hopkins catches
Kyler running for his life all game, still finding a way to frustrated and at times, slice & dice the maybe the best college defense I've ever seen....WITHOUT his best receiver. He was incredible.
Tua was almost flawless. But his team wins the same with 10-15 other QBs in CFB. And wins with his backup.
96. "If he DOES go first round, he'll get more guaranteed money" In response to Reply # 95
But that's no guarantee. It helps that this year's QB class is pretty weak, but he's still a 5'9" quarterback looking to play in the NFL.
If he's a first round pick, he gets more guaranteed money and he can start earning even more money right away, as opposed to having to ride the bus from Modesto to Stockton all summer getting a small per diem in the minors for a few years.
But MLB careers are on average longer, with guaranteed contracts and fewer head injury risks. Although Joe Mauer was faced with this scenario in the early aughts, chose baseball and was never the same after he suffered a concussion (though this was after he had already signed a monster guaranteed contract that would have never been open to him in football.)
Impossible decision to make, either way could go horribly wrong. What if Drew Henson, Chris Weinke and Brandon Weeden hadn't wasted part of their youth chasing baseball careers? What if Matt Holiday would've taken the Oklahoma State football scholarship he was offered and never looked back?
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12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx
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