Are these two pretty much done or will a change of scenery help them? I know the league isn’t crawling with talented QBs but do either of them still have a future? Statistically, here is where they stand:
3. "How do you whiff on 10,500+ passing yards?" In response to Reply # 0
They're okay/serviceable starters in the league. They're Alex Smith pre KC days as far as I'm concerned. Give them the right coach, the right system, with enough patience and support. Jameis has off the field issues so he's probably done in Tampa after this year but Marcus is solid.
I can 10 qbs in a similar mold that flamed out before hitting 8,500 yards passing.
4. "RE: Two big whiffs (Mariota & Winston)?" In response to Reply # 0
Mariota is still a bit of enigma, because of the situation in Tennessee since he got there and his injuries.
Winston seems clearer;
Off the field he is a guy who might be out the league in two years, or might get it together.
On the field his floor is probably Rex Grossman and his ceiling is Jay Cutler. He can start in this league but may not be able to keep his job unless he is on the right team, and he likely will never be on the right team, because of his inconsistency. The "right team" has their QB already, and they don't get Jay Cutler to be his backup, they get guys like Nick Foles and Tyrod Taylor.
5. "not cooked yet" In response to Reply # 0 Mon Oct-29-18 08:31 PM by will_5198
Winston reminds me that careless quarterbacks in college are usually that way in the NFL. great arm talent and he's only 24 years old, but his decisions on and off the field indicate a guy that has zero maturity to be a pro. staying in Florida was probably the worse situation he could've been in -- not to excuse him, just saying it was another bad element. he has lots of healthy years though, so if he's ever honest with himself he could be right back in the starting QB mix.
Mariota is also just 26 so there could be a revival for him in a different situation. on one hand Tennessee's offensive coaching was abysmal for most of his career. on the other hand, playing in Nashville is probably the most stress-free place in the NFL and seems to fit his persona. I thought he would turn the corner 2 or 3 times but he has never found consistency.
Tiger Woods Member since Feb 15th 2004 18386 posts
Tue Oct-30-18 08:40 AM
8. "can’t recommend Bruce Feldman’s “The QB” book enough " In response to Reply # 6 Tue Oct-30-18 08:41 AM by Tiger Woods
The book is a deep dive on the position, specifically focused on Elite 11 and the young QB development movement/industry
The way guys like Jordan Palmer and Trent Dilfer talk about a young Jameis is startling. They think he’s THE ONE. He’s talked about the same way Luck was talked about - has it all, can’t miss, a Dude. That he became this is a shame, because everyone with a credible opinion had Jameis picked as the next transcendent QB prospect. I mean before Jameis even picked a college, Dilfer tells him he’s going to compete for multiple National Championships and eventually play on Sundays.
Tiger Woods Member since Feb 15th 2004 18386 posts
Tue Oct-30-18 09:13 AM
13. "that’s what I’m saying man" In response to Reply # 9
Again, Dilfer tells him he’s going to do those things before he’d even picked a school. Point being, the most credible QB whisperers were certain of Jameis’s eventual success.
15. "His confidence is gone..." In response to Reply # 12 Tue Oct-30-18 09:41 AM by CyrenYoung
..and he's folding under the pressure.
Sure, he's putting up a good front, but it won't last. Not at this pace.
Some of that's on him (character issues), but I hold the coaches/org responsible as well. They knew what they were getting when they drafted him, but can't seem to manage. Not sure why he's no longer being mentored by Brooks, but they could really use his presence in that locker room.
What he needs more than anything else: discipline & stability.
Winston is polite and likable, but he lacks maturity. If/when he ever truly decides to grow up, he could have an incredible career.
Tiger Woods Member since Feb 15th 2004 18386 posts
Tue Oct-30-18 11:25 AM
16. "somehow, I think the weight of his position is totally lost on him" In response to Reply # 15
even at Florida State, I don't think he had a sense of just how important he and his position were. You're the starting quarterback for a national title contender at a blueblood program...standing on your table in the cafeteria? Taking food from the grocery store? It's not that he couldn't have gotten away with those things - in the grand scheme of things they're not that big a deal. Rather, the matter is that he doesn't seem to grasp just how big of a deal it is to be a starting quarterback in the first place.
17. "I just don't ever see him not being careless with the ball...ever..." In response to Reply # 15
plus, as far as the (right team) thing goes...where does he even go from here? I agree with you 100% that he should not see the field again, this season. Tampa just cannot take the risk of him getting injured. That said, no established teams are going for him...which would probably leave him on a team that's shitty to mediocre...and here we go again. Remember...Tampa fired Lovie because they were so scared they would lose Koetter...and Koetter was supposed to be (at least to some extent) the key to Jameis' success. Maybe Gruden will get him and do some of that QB school bullshit with him like he used to do on ESPN, lol.
...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Oct-30-18 12:27 PM
19. "NFL doesn’t give many chances for a Black QB to revive his career" In response to Reply # 17
Jacksonville seems like his best chance to start again.
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
20. "Jaguars, Jets, Broncos..." In response to Reply # 19 Tue Oct-30-18 02:21 PM by CyrenYoung
..hell, even the Giants.
Winston needs a coach and a team willing to recognize that he's not a leader (yet), but can certainly be productive with the right scheme (preferably one that involves a balanced attack, trimming the fat on the passing game). That means he'll need strong veteran support and a staff willing to go the extra mile to help him mature.
There are deals to be made.
*Edit: to be clear, I actually like Winston. The problem is that he's not gonna get much more help in Tampa (coaching-wise), and they're currently wasting a LOT of talent because of it. If they're not gonna take the time to right this ship (from top to bottom), there's no point holding on to him.
22. "regarding your edit..." In response to Reply # 20 Tue Oct-30-18 04:06 PM by CyrenYoung
that's why I'm so confused/frustrated...Koetter exists in Tampa, SOLELY because he was supposed to be that guy for Winston...was Koetter some shit or Winston just not receptive?
<<<< the Tate-over, ya breaks over
...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft
23. "what he needs is to study up for his CPA or go to law school" In response to Reply # 15
foh about jameis being a delicate flower that just needs sunlight to go. he's had every opportunity to succeeed and been laced with receiving talent. he's just bad. he won't get, and won't deserve, anything more than a prove-it second contract, unless the bucs management really is that stupid.
---- bshelly
"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God
legsdiamond Member since May 05th 2011 79586 posts
Tue Oct-30-18 12:24 PM
18. "He plays like he talks..." In response to Reply # 12
**************** TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*
32. "RE: He's very accurate. He's just not focused (which is worse) " In response to Reply # 29
No. Inconsistent accuracy and on-field decision making have been a problem his whole career.
Stop with the false narratives.
I don't doubt he has other problems in his life that may be helping his career to crater in this fashion, but he is what he has always been as a player.
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