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Lobby Okay Sports topic #2662849

Subject: "AI vs. CP3?" Previous topic | Next topic
melmag
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Tue Jun-12-18 03:30 PM

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"AI vs. CP3?"


  

          


better talent? better career? all of that...

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
yes.
Jun 12th 2018
1
Better career and talent, AI, better player, toss-up, I guess.
Jun 12th 2018
2
AI is one of the few talents I honestly feel was rigged against.
Jun 12th 2018
3
      Tim Donaghy, is that you?
Jun 12th 2018
4
      The league hated him, they'd have rigged more against him but ...
Jun 12th 2018
12
      Shocked that Pop was actually ejected from a game
Jun 13th 2018
15
      The way they called him and also removing illegal defense
Jun 12th 2018
11
recusing myself. two of my absolute favorites.
Jun 12th 2018
5
AI easily
Jun 12th 2018
6
is CPPlea even a Top 25-30 player...today...?
Jun 12th 2018
7
      lulz
Jun 12th 2018
8
      ooh, fun with numbers, I'll play
Jun 12th 2018
9
           harrison barnes better. tj warren and dennis schroeder too.
Jun 12th 2018
10
           apparently the irony of your comment was lost on him
Jun 14th 2018
26
                ^^^compelling argument
Jun 14th 2018
27
                what you call irony, I call a deflection. So you really want a list ehh
Jun 14th 2018
28
                     you forgot dennis schroeder.
Jun 14th 2018
29
                          RE: at least DJR answered the question directly
Jun 14th 2018
30
                               your list + dennis schroeder.
Jun 14th 2018
31
           dyscalculia much?
Jun 13th 2018
16
                dyscalculia = Thurl Bailey and Kiki Vandeweghe
Jun 13th 2018
17
      Was Magic Johnson even a top 25-30 player in his PRIME?
Jun 12th 2018
13
           Mandate; stop throwing Magic and Zeke's names in CPPlea posts
Jun 13th 2018
14
                stop making stupid posts and you won’t get stupid replies
Jun 13th 2018
18
                     RE: stop making stupid posts
Jun 13th 2018
19
                          So you post the scoring leaders?
Jun 13th 2018
20
                               I asked a question...the scoring leaders are an easy way
Jun 13th 2018
21
                                    I’m agreeing he’s not top 25-30 ever, but he’s easily top 25-30 to...
Jun 13th 2018
22
                                         Are you taking him over some of the names not listed?
Jun 13th 2018
24
                                              RE: Are you taking him over some of the names not listed?
Jun 13th 2018
25
Better talent: Iverson, better career: Iverson by a little to this point
Jun 13th 2018
23
AI got the hype and CP3 got the substance
Jun 24th 2018
32

bentagain
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Tue Jun-12-18 03:43 PM

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1. "yes."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Jun-12-18 04:05 PM

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2. "Better career and talent, AI, better player, toss-up, I guess."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

CP3 was robbed of an MVP but just the same he never won one. You can argue about 2001 but Iverson had better seasons in 03 and 05 anyway.

Paul is obviously a better defender and floor general but he also had a way of being abrasive that didn't help him in his career. Iverson has him in terms of scoring by a wide margin and had he been a true point guard he could have been the playmaker Paul is and even more, super skilled passer. On the flipside, Paul often scored more when called upon. I don't think he could be a consistent high 20/low 30s scorer but close enough.

Without looking I will guess they have won the exact same number of playoff series, though Paul has been on better teams overall (maybe mitigated by being in the West but I dunno).

It's close but to me Iverson was a more dominant star. Both guys are very talented even though they used their talents in different ways. You would be thrilled to have either one on your team starting their career, obviously

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Dr Claw
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Tue Jun-12-18 04:27 PM

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3. "AI is one of the few talents I honestly feel was rigged against."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

with actual video footage of officials explaining his phantom fouls. turned a promising career into a self-fulfilling prophecy, never mind that he was basically LeBron before LeBron at one point.

I knew that they'd probably job to Shaq and Kobe's Lakers but still. the way he was handled really turned me off. he was the anti-Cheese Eyes.

  

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bentagain
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Tue Jun-12-18 04:33 PM

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4. "Tim Donaghy, is that you?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/convicted-ref-donaghy-says-iverson-targeted-1.839107

literally word for word.

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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Tue Jun-12-18 07:57 PM

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12. "The league hated him, they'd have rigged more against him but ..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Billy King's incompetence did all that heavy lifting.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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Wed Jun-13-18 12:06 PM

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15. "Shocked that Pop was actually ejected from a game"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

like that time Tim Duncan got ejected for laughing, that just seems odd.

  

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ConcreteCharlie
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Tue Jun-12-18 07:55 PM

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11. "The way they called him and also removing illegal defense"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

He was too quick to hand-check effectively. In a "true" man-to-man league (e.g. one where you had to hide zone defenses), he would have eaten like crazy.

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jun-12-18 04:39 PM

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5. "recusing myself. two of my absolute favorites."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

both stellar in their own right.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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melmag
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Tue Jun-12-18 05:38 PM

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6. "AI easily "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jun-12-18 05:42 PM by melmag

  

          

Bubba was a once in a generation talent type imo: the stamina, quickness, athleticism, etc.. UNREAL!

CP3 is just a throwback to classic, traditional point guards, a great one nonetheless.

Only reason I'm even asking is the recent addition of CP3 in a lot of Top 25-30 players ever, with no mention of AI at all.. smh

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Tue Jun-12-18 05:49 PM

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7. "is CPPlea even a Top 25-30 player...today...?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/seasontype/2

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jun-12-18 06:08 PM

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8. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html

Offensive Rating
2017-18 NBA 125.9 (5th)

Assists Per Game
2017-18 NBA 7.9 (6th)

Assist Pct
2017-18 NBA 40.9 (6th)

Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
2017-18 NBA .265 (3rd)

Box Plus/Minus
2017-18 NBA 7.1 (6th)

Offensive Box Plus/Minus
2017-18 NBA 6.2 (6th)

U Mad
2017-18 OKS 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (1st)

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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bentagain
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Tue Jun-12-18 06:18 PM

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9. "ooh, fun with numbers, I'll play"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Players ahead of CPPlea in;
Offensive Rating
1. Dwight Powell • DAL 128.9
2. Karl-Anthony Towns • MIN 126.7
3. Clint Capela • HOU 126.1
4. Darren Collison • IND 126.0

outside of KAT, no really a compelling argument

Assists Per Game
3 forwards >>>

Assist Pct
2 forwards and JJ Barea >>>

WS he's 12th, so let's juke the stats...Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
LOL

Offensive Box Plus/Minus
Advanced stats + CCPlea = Loser.

U Miserable waiting for 2018-219 OKS so you can CPA your way through another CPPlea L of a season
Dula (1st)

---------------------------------------------------------------

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jun-12-18 06:26 PM

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10. "harrison barnes better. tj warren and dennis schroeder too."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/seasontype/2

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Jun-14-18 10:39 AM

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26. "apparently the irony of your comment was lost on him"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

post #21:

>but the rest of that list is pretty solid as being ahead of
>CPPlea
>
>but you knew that
>
>James Harden
>Anthony Davis
>LeBron James
>Damian Lillard
>Giannis Antetokounmpo
>Kevin Durant
>Russell Westbrook
>Kyrie Irving
>LaMarcus Aldridge
>Victor Oladipo
>DeMar DeRozan
>Joel Embiid
>Bradley Beal
>Lou Williams
>Jimmy Butler
>Kemba Walker
>Paul George
>Blake Griffin
>CJ McCollum
>Karl-Anthony Towns
>Donovan Mitchell
>Khris Middleton
>Klay Thompson
>TJ Warren
>Dennis Schroder
>Jrue Holiday
>Harrison Barnes

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Thu Jun-14-18 10:51 AM

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27. "^^^compelling argument"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Jun-14-18 11:45 AM

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28. "what you call irony, I call a deflection. So you really want a list ehh"
In response to Reply # 26
Thu Jun-14-18 11:46 AM by bentagain

  

          

James Harden
>Anthony Davis
>LeBron James
>Damian Lillard
>Giannis Antetokounmpo
>Kevin Durant
>Russell Westbrook
>Kyrie Irving
>LaMarcus Aldridge
>Victor Oladipo

>Joel Embiid

>Jimmy Butler
>Kemba Walker
>Paul George
>Blake Griffin

>Karl-Anthony Towns
>Donovan Mitchell

>Klay Thompson

Simmons
Jokic
Brown
Tatum

Booker
Boogie
Unicorn
Dray
Gobert
Kawhi

That's 28...at least DJR answered the question directly...care to play...?

Post em up...where do you have the currently injured 33Y.O. heading into his 13th season perennially injured never been asked to the dance CPPlea?

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dula dibiasi
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29. "you forgot dennis schroeder."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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bentagain
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Thu Jun-14-18 02:15 PM

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30. "RE: at least DJR answered the question directly"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

cool list bruh

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

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dula dibiasi
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31. "your list + dennis schroeder."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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cgonz00cc
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16. "dyscalculia much?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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bentagain
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17. "dyscalculia = Thurl Bailey and Kiki Vandeweghe"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

The math is actually very simple

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Tue Jun-12-18 08:01 PM

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13. "Was Magic Johnson even a top 25-30 player in his PRIME?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

http://www.landofbasketball.com/year_by_year_stats/1985_1986_leaders_points_pg_rs.htm

  

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bentagain
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14. "Mandate; stop throwing Magic and Zeke's names in CPPlea posts "
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

He's not worthy

LOL@Magic's prime 'year' being the season prior to winning 3 MVPs

Do better

CPPlea never had a +20ppg +12 assist season..,and you can throw in 7 boards for good measure

C'mon son

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you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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DJR
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18. "stop making stupid posts and you won’t get stupid replies"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

  

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bentagain
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19. "RE: stop making stupid posts"
In response to Reply # 18
Wed Jun-13-18 01:53 PM by bentagain

  

          

Only reason I'm even asking is the recent addition of CP3 in a lot of Top 25-30 players ever, with no mention of AI at all.. smh

^^^does this sound right to you and your advanced stats?

top 30 AT?

you've got a 33y.o. going into his 13th season recently injured often injured perennial runner up in the top 25-30 players in the league today?

enlighten me with your intelligence

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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DJR
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20. "So you post the scoring leaders?"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

That’s why I posted Magic. Russell would work even better. Cmon, I know you know this.

No I probably wouldn’t have CP3 top 25-30 all time, but I also don’t spend time making lists like that. There’s a lot of guys though, top 25 ever is getting awfully tough to crack.

  

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bentagain
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21. "I asked a question...the scoring leaders are an easy way"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

to generate names

you can cherry pick a few names off that list in the 20s...as you did

but the rest of that list is pretty solid as being ahead of CPPlea

but you knew that

James Harden
Anthony Davis
LeBron James
Damian Lillard
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
LaMarcus Aldridge
Victor Oladipo
DeMar DeRozan
Joel Embiid
Bradley Beal
Lou Williams
Jimmy Butler
Kemba Walker
Paul George
Blake Griffin
CJ McCollum
Karl-Anthony Towns
Donovan Mitchell
Khris Middleton
Klay Thompson
TJ Warren
Dennis Schroder
Jrue Holiday
Harrison Barnes

So you're presenting a mathematical thesis...just to agree with me?

WTF

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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DJR
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Wed Jun-13-18 02:11 PM

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22. "I’m agreeing he’s not top 25-30 ever, but he’s easily top 25-30 to..."
In response to Reply # 21
Wed Jun-13-18 02:13 PM by DJR

  

          

There’s maybe 6 guys on that list that are clearly better than him and another 6-7 that are arguable.

  

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bentagain
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24. "Are you taking him over some of the names not listed?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

For somebody who doesn't make these lists...LOL...

Simmons
Jokic
Brown
Tatum
Smith Jr
Booker
Boogie
Unicorn
Dray

...really doesn't feel like that far of a stretch today, IMO...

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If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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DJR
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25. "RE: Are you taking him over some of the names not listed?"
In response to Reply # 24
Wed Jun-13-18 02:47 PM by DJR

  

          

>For somebody who doesn't make these lists...LOL...
>
>Simmons
>Jokic
>Brown
>Tatum
>Smith Jr
>Booker
>Boogie
>Unicorn
>Dray
>
>...really doesn't feel like that far of a stretch today,
>IMO...

Yes, over all of them. Most of them aren’t close right today, IMO.

Boogie would be arguable without the injury but that’s a major one. Simmons won’t even take a jumper yet. If that changes to where it’s at least an option for him then maybe. But we saw what he did in close playoff games out there, and we also saw what Paul did. Don’t even see that one as arguable right today.

Smith isn’t even any good yet.

Brown - not yet.
Tatum - closer, but ....I’d go Paul but I’m not mad at someone going Tatum.
Booker - no
Porzingis - Nope.
Green - Nah.

  

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DJR
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23. "Better talent: Iverson, better career: Iverson by a little to this point"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

MVP and carrying a team to the finals gives him a little edge, I’d say.

Paul looks poised to finish his career strong, where Iverson was a trainwreck after age 32. It’s close enough to where Paul’s career could top AI’s depending on how strong he finishes.

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Sun Jun-24-18 09:05 PM

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32. "AI got the hype and CP3 got the substance"
In response to Reply # 0


          

for me on the eye test AI got more out of himself and some cases he overachieved where CP3 has underachieved and yet he got a chance to be right there with him at the finish line of his career because he stats are the truth.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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