mistermaxxx08 Member since Dec 31st 2010 16076 posts
Sun Jun-03-18 08:42 PM
"Poll question: how many Rangs does Steph Curry need to be called the Greatest PG Ever"
eating some pizza last night with the Homie and he said to me if Steph gets another Piece of Jewelry then he is the GOAT Point guard and i said about a couple of more and then with stats, jewelry and Impact he got a chance to be cemented with Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson whatcha say?
4. "If 33 took all snaps, hand to 12, 12 passes, is Brady the GOAT RB?" In response to Reply # 0 Sun Jun-03-18 10:00 PM by Jon
It's hard for me to look at Curry as a PG, at least in the traditional sense in which ranking PGs means something. It's Ray Allen with extra wiggle taking the ball up the court. I almost feel like Lebron is more of a PG in some ways.
8. "It's going to take a lot for Steph to pass Magic in the hearts and minds" In response to Reply # 0
It's pretty much like the Jordan/LeBron situation.
Magic has been the greatest PG ever for so long tin the collective memory of the NBA fans that it's difficult to knock that perception loose. It's probably going to take evaluation down the road after Steph's career is over to figure out where things stand.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Mon Jun-04-18 11:47 AM
14. "Do you really not know why Bron/MJ is closer than Steph/Magic?" In response to Reply # 10 Mon Jun-04-18 11:48 AM by Frank Longo
Bron: 3 titles, 4 season MVPs, 14 All-Stars, 12 All-NBA First Teams. Career stats: 27/7/7. MJ: 6 titles, 5 season MVPs, 14 All-Stars, 10 All-NBA First Teams. Career stats: 30/6/5.
Bron's got some work to do, but he'll pass MJ in ASGs, he's already past him in First Teams, his career stats are pretty damn comparable. It's easy to imagine a world in which he's considered better than Jordan without matching Jordan's rings (tho he realistically needs to at least get 4 if he wants there to be less clashing about it).
Whereas with Magic/Steph...
Magic: 5 titles, 3 season MVPs, 12 All-Stars, 9 All-NBA First Teams. Career stats: 20/7/11. Steph: 2 titles, 2 season MVPs, 5 All-Stars, 2 All-NBA First Teams. Career stats: 23/4/7.
I mean... outside of being a better scorer (which most would already give Steph) and only one MVP behind Magic, they're not really comparable elsewhere right now. So I think it's fair to ask Steph to get closer to Magic in ringsbefore they even really are comparable, and if he's behind in everything *other* than rings, then yeah, you kinda need rings to make up the difference.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 11:44 AM
41. "I'm not arguing that Bron should be above MJ." In response to Reply # 38 Tue Jun-05-18 11:46 AM by Frank Longo
I'm arguing that Bron/MJ is very transparently closer than Magic/Steph. I'd still have MJ above Bron personally, so I have no pro-Bron-GOAT agenda to grind.
Besides, Bron is still in the Top 20 of all time in All-Defense appointments, so yes, MJ has more All-Defense accolades than anyone, but Bron is still an all-time great in that regard. It's not like that disparity is as great as some of the major disparities between Magic and Steph's resumes.
42. "Steph on course to approach Magic in all but All-NBA 1st teams though" In response to Reply # 41
May never get close to 9, partly due to injuries -- shld've been 1st team this year if he wasn't hurt, for instance. But he'll be an All-Star every year, he's already at 2 MVPs (vs 3), his stats are different but overall comparable. And Magic is arguably greatest passer ever, but Steph is (pretty much inarguably) the greatest shooter ever. Bron in his 15th year, Steph in his 9th
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 12:12 PM
44. "Then it's a conversation years in the future, assuming Steph keeps pace." In response to Reply # 42
But Steph wouldn't pass Magic in All-Star Games until he was 38, assuming he made the ASG every single year between now and then, and, while not impossible, that's an aggressive projection imo. He'll never pass Magic's rebounding and assist numbers, he'll never pass Magic's All-NBA numbers. He needs *a* clear accomplishment advantage over Magic beyond the 3 PPG career average.
That was my point in the original post-- the great equalizer is rings. If they go on a dynasty run and win a couple more the next few years, then shit could get real interesting... but if this is their last ring (unlikely, but could be), then Steph vs. Magic isn't even a conversation.
64. "So you're saying LeBron's career is better than Jordan's, rings aside?" In response to Reply # 44
Because here's your logic: rings aside, Magic probably > Steph, so Steph needs to at least match him in rings for it to be a conversation. But Jordan has twice as many rings as LeBron. So you think that's a conversation because, setting rings aside, LeBron > MJ? Because if they're jus comparable in other respects, it's not a conversation. According to your logic.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 06:04 PM
68. "... why is your tone so snippy over this? lol" In response to Reply # 64
>Because here's your logic: rings aside, Magic probably > >Steph, so Steph needs to at least match him in rings for it to >be a conversation. But Jordan has twice as many rings as >LeBron. So you think that's a conversation because, setting >rings aside, LeBron > MJ? Because if they're jus comparable in >other respects, it's not a conversation. According to your >logic.
Rings aside, Magic is miles ahead of Steph. There’s no “probably” there.
If Jordan had the same number of rings as Bron, then yes, I’m pretty sure WAY more people would crown Bron as the GOAT. Of course.
But rings matter. That’s undeniably the biggest reason why Jordan is still ahead and will likely stay there. And that’s why Steph has a lot of work to do to even start a convo of him vs. Magic.
I have no clue why you have to keep insisting in that post that you understand my logic so well that you have to explain my logic to me, as if I fail to grasp it.
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 08:44 PM
76. "That's never been my point tho." In response to Reply # 75
My point is that the conversation is more understandable. The stats and the accomplishments-- as you said, "rings aside"-- reflect that. That's all it has been. How you feel about the two of them personally is on you.
as far as quality of play, in my lifetime, its steph/zeke/magic above everyone else by a LOT
but for greatness...dont know how many, but its definity more than 1 more. call it hometown bias, glassy eyed nostalgia, or whatever, but steph aint yet reached Isiah's rung in the ladder. not steph's fault, but Duncan's Spurs retired from the top of the hill without ever being dethroned.
Zeke put a big ass harpoon through his whale, Curry's just kind of bowed out and left an opening for him.
makes it hard to put the modern NBA in historical context as a whole actually. Brons chips came when the franchises addes multiple elite pieces in individual summers, and there was no one to overtake after reshuffling the deck that way. GSW built theirs from the ground up, but dudes drafted in the 90's won the other Western championships this decade. once they retired, who was going to push GSW?
13. "also why 8 straight Finals is a red herring of an accomplishment btw" In response to Reply # 12
Bron and Bosh going to Miami as the Celtics approached mid 30's took all the life out of the east
Durant going to the Warriors (AFTER they won of course) did the same. these are zero-sum events, and anything added to the new team, makes the old teams that much more beatable. its like the first law of thermodynamics almost.
49. "Bron could win 4 more titles and y'all wouldn't say he's #1" In response to Reply # 40
the people who never credit his legacy after 15 years won't do so now - regardless of how many more rings he wins.
The objective facts are a closed loop now: He's on Rushmore as 1 of the 3 greatest to ever play - and where you have him is entirely up to your perspective and bias.
19. "I feel like he can never be the GOAT PG without some kind of assist reco..." In response to Reply # 0
I get that he's helping redefine the position and it's not like the old days, but it's weird to think of a PG whose primary role is to shoot deep as the GOAT at that position.
And can he do more to redefine the position than Magic did?
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12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx
51. "^^^ Exhibit 4080 = comparing Bron to CPPlea" In response to Reply # 47 Tue Jun-05-18 01:04 PM by bentagain
In the MJ/Bron debate...rings are the difference
My reply, which you seem to have memorized...was posted years ago...in considering Bron as the GOAT
My reply was taking the position for Bron...who already had RANGS at the time I made that post
i.e. even if he doesn't get 6 or 7, you can make the argument #1 AT pts, top 10 AT assists, possibly top 20 AT rebounds, 8 in a row, chips with different franchises + a handful of RANGS...is a solid argument which I stand by word for word and Bron has done every bit his part to meet that projection
Up the post if that's how you feel
I hope we're clear on that, because my reply to you is this simple
CPPlea's legacy is never being asked to the dance, so your reply is baseless from the opening statement.
28. "Call me when he plays 3 positions in the NBA finals" In response to Reply # 0
---------------------------------
So i'm smokin on this cactus, bangin Fat Patrick hustla til i die baby grindin like a savage pimp game sweet, breakin ankles and feet cuz these hoes break they toes til they job complete
45. "he said GREATEST ever..." In response to Reply # 31
im pretty sure theres a difference between greatest ever and best
---------------------------------
So i'm smokin on this cactus, bangin Fat Patrick hustla til i die baby grindin like a savage pimp game sweet, breakin ankles and feet cuz these hoes break they toes til they job complete
29. "He's already the greatest shooter ever, that's enough" In response to Reply # 0
And that also transcends the greatest point guard debate. You look at Oscar, West, Pistol Pete, those guys weren't looked at as "the best point guards," they were just looked at as being among the very best players on the college level and really the NBA level, too.
Same thing with Steph, he is a combo guard to be sure but he is a great one and the best shooter the game has ever seen with all due respect to Ray Allen, Bird, et al.
Let guys like Stockton, Zeke, Cousy and Nash talk about "the best point guard." Magic owns that crown and maybe the closest thing to a true point guard in the Top 10 players. Curry will never be that style of player but in terms of overall effectiveness and stardom, he has a chance to be one of the very best players ever, top 10-15 level if he can stay healthy.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
36. "A honest question for folks here:" In response to Reply # 0
For the greatest point guard of all time argument, doesn't it bother folks that the dude is a liability as a defender on the wing? I suppose folks can assume I'm being hateful or whatever, but to me, to get mentioned as the greatest of all time for a position, it should be fair to hold Steph up to high standards. The fact he can't stop other top level point guards from blowing by him on the wing is pretty glaring IMO.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 12:42 PM
48. "magic johnson was an awful defender. awful." In response to Reply # 36
and i love the shit out of magic, and rank him #3 behind mike and bron on my "post-ABA-merger/guys whose primes i actually watched" list, but i'm so sick of the revisionism on that particular subject.
dude was a shitty defender. period. we can't give him a pass and then knock other guys.
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
81. "I'll leave it to other folks" In response to Reply # 48
to compare Curry to Magic. I didn't bring up the defense argument to prop up or defend Magic in anyway. The reason I brought it up is to call someone the greatest of all time for a position, yet have him have such a glaring weakness on half of the aspect of the position bothers me. To me, the greatest shooter of all time argument holds more merit since that strictly focuses on the offensive side of things, but to typify Curry as the greatest point guard of all time doesn't make too much sense.
Just my opinion, so folks can feel free to disagree.
"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.
98. "6.8 assists a game" In response to Reply # 81 Thu Jun-07-18 08:07 AM by kayru99
shitty d He can REALLY shoot....and that's pretty much it. That's his game No way in hell should he be in the GOAT anything discussion other than shooter.
57. "true..but Magic didn't just change how the game was played" In response to Reply # 43
the last NBA Championship that was not broadcast on live national television was his 40 point game as a rookie to beat the Sixers..
the NBA was back on prime time television after Magic set records for viewership beating Larry Bird in the NCAA final, then came to the NBA with probably the greatest performance any rookie has ever had in any team sport in a championship game.... .then the next year, the Finals are on live network TV....
72. "He, Larry, the Doc and Jordan all played a role. So?" In response to Reply # 57
We are talking about the best player, none of this other bullshit. You sound like the Iverstanians I want to deport when they start talking about cornrows and tats in a hoops discussion.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
So i'm smokin on this cactus, bangin Fat Patrick hustla til i die baby grindin like a savage pimp game sweet, breakin ankles and feet cuz these hoes break they toes til they job complete
50. "Will Steph ever have won a title under adversity/real pressure?" In response to Reply # 0
He'll need to do that to surpass Magic. But not being Magic isn't a slight. Steph is an ATG and top 3 PG to ever play. Greatest shooter to ever play and transcendent in terms of how he's changed the game into a volume 3-point shooting league.
But he's always been a front-runner who too often hasn't even been the leading star on his own team - particularly when the lights are the brightest.
After Durant leaves - if he can still win a title while not being such a grotesque front-runner on the NBA's Harlem Globetrotters - then maybe he'll have an argument with Magic.
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 01:06 PM
52. "Besides the coach, what changed about G-State from 2013-2014" In response to Reply # 50 Tue Jun-05-18 01:12 PM by auragin_boi
to 2014-2015 when they won the title?
He's gone to 2 finals without Durant and has two MVP's. And I dare you to find one publication crowning the prior seasons western conference 6 seed as the favorite to win the 2014-2015 title, let alone win the east.
I dare you.
This is proof some dudes just 'say' stuff.
And fun fact: In the 2015 finals, he averaged more steals, assist and almost the same amount of rebs as the the finals MVP...while putting up 10ppg more than him.
54. "RE: Besides the coach, what changed about G-State from 2013-2014" In response to Reply # 52
>to 2014-2015 when they won the title?
You're discounting the coaching change but clearly that was instrumental in the team's rapid coalescing in 2014-2015. Jackson set this team off and Kerr took it to the next level, maximizing their style of play to great output. But Klay and Draymond's entry into their prime peak helped a lot as well. Dray was a DPOY type of guy and Klay had emerged into a superstar talent. It was the ripe maturation of team talent that had just reached its ascent in 2015.
But really - the biggest thing that changed was competition. Steph & GS were taken to 6 in 2015 *without* Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love even playing. That's not a tall order and a title where you're like "oh my goodness what did we just watch?!"
That is reserved for feats like Magic Johnson's rookie-year title. Steph has never had a moment even close to that magnitude.
>He's gone to 2 finals without Durant and has two MVP's. And I >dare you to find one publication crowning the prior seasons >western conference 6 seed as the favorite to win the 2014-2015 >title, let alone win the east.
Again - I'm not trashing Steph. I said he's top 3 PG's of all time. That's an honor. But he's not Magic Johnson. He's never been the most valuable player on his team in the Finals (that may finally change this year) - Magic has 3 Finals MVPs (and played with Kareem!) and won under real adversity against *great* talent. Steph has always been the overwhelming favorite and when he comes up short - (in the Finals or WCF) - he has arguably the most talented and balanced team of all time to come to the rescue to save the day.
>I dare you. > >This is proof some dudes just 'say' stuff.
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 01:46 PM
58. "This is just BS Vex...and you know it" In response to Reply # 54 Tue Jun-05-18 01:47 PM by auragin_boi
>You're discounting the coaching change but clearly that was >instrumental in the team's rapid coalescing in 2014-2015. >Jackson set this team off and Kerr took it to the next level, >maximizing their style of play to great output. But Klay and >Draymond's entry into their prime peak helped a lot as well. >Dray was a DPOY type of guy and Klay had emerged into a >superstar talent. It was the ripe maturation of team talent >that had just reached its ascent in 2015.
Ok, so new coach helped but there was not influx of personnel talent. That goes against this very statement:
"But he's always been a front-runner who too often hasn't even been the leading star on his own team"
You can't go from 6th seed to title and be considered a front runner.
>But really - the biggest thing that changed was competition. >Steph & GS were taken to 6 in 2015 *without* Kyrie Irving and >Kevin Love even playing. That's not a tall order and a title >where you're like "oh my goodness what did we just watch?!"
You can't penalize that man for who was in front of him. He didn't dislocate Love's shoulder or break Kyrie's kneecap. Nevermind that they had won ONE playoff series in 2 prior tries before winning the title or that they beat Memph (WC finalist) and Houston (with MVP candidate Harden, Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Jason Terry, Ariza) to get to Cleveland. The West has been a gauntlet for like 5-6 seasons.
>That is reserved for feats like Magic Johnson's rookie-year >title. Steph has never had a moment even close to that >magnitude.
Magic was playing next to the league MVP and had to have ONE good game to win a title. He delivered. Cool but he also got his hat handed to him in 4 finals. Talk about front running! Mr. I would would have went back to school if the Chicago Bulls had won the coin flip that sent me to the 47 win, 5 time MVP laden Lakers.
Front running? hahahaha
Mind you Jamal Wilkes dropped 37 in that game 6 as well but people act like it was all Magic. He had HELP.
>Again - I'm not trashing Steph. I said he's top 3 PG's of all >time. That's an honor. But he's not Magic Johnson. He's >never been the most valuable player on his team in the Finals >(that may finally change this year) - Magic has 3 Finals MVPs >(and played with Kareem!) and won under real adversity against >*great* talent. Steph has always been the overwhelming >favorite and when he comes up short - (in the Finals or WCF) - >he has arguably the most talented and balanced team of all >time to come to the rescue to save the day.
If Kareem doesn't get hurt against the Sixers, Magic doesn't win MVP. Kareem's numbers were better (33pts/13reb/3ast/4.6blks) but Magic shined in that last game. Steph had better numbers than Iggy but the sports writers wanted to give Iggy the nod because he upped his game. Durant earned his. Magic won 5 titles with his front running a** but only 3 finals MVPs. So apparently, the 'guy' doesn't always win it.
Steph ain't Magic but your reasoning is paper thin and reeks of 'propping g-state' so you can tout Bron. LMAO you so transparent.
>Proof that you're very mad, perhaps.
Nah, you just say stuff and be dead a** serious but dead a** off base. If anyone is a front runner between the two, it's Magic.
G-state basically jumped in line and Curry is a front runner because him and his team developed. Comical.
63. "you're emotional - and that's ok." In response to Reply # 58 Tue Jun-05-18 02:35 PM by Vex_id
We all can get upset at times.
Steph's a front-runner because he's always been on the favored team heading into the Finals (even in 2015). He plays on a quadruple stacked team and his success is more of a product of his team's elitism than it is his own exceptionalism.
He's an all-time great PG - but he ain't Magic - at least not yet. Let him win a couple more titles as *THE* man who makes the difference and is the MVP - then we can revisit.
80. "geez you guys can at least get your facts right." In response to Reply # 79
>Flat out lie! > >2014-15, as some have pointed out, GSW were not a front >runner...they were seeded #4
Incorrect. That 2014-2015 GSW team won 67 games, were the #1 seed - and were the favorites to beat the Cavs. Despite all of that - Cleveland took them to 6 *without* Love & Kyrie - and Curry was struggling in the Finals against inferior competition - which is why Iggy was awarded the MVP for holding Bron to 36/13/9
They've been heavy favorites and front-runners for 4 straight years - and have been gifted with their next best competition being deflated with timely injuries (Kawhi, CP3, Kyrie/Love).
85. "No, I'm not saying that. " In response to Reply # 83 Wed Jun-06-18 01:50 PM by Vex_id
>to 23, 24, and 30 ppg; MVPs + Rangs > >and you're saying the GSW success is NOT because of him
Of course he's an integral part and the engine to what they do. But you put Curry on another team - do they win the finals? If you put Curry on this Cavs team - do they even get out of the 1st round?
Golden State is a dynasty because they have 4 hall of famers. That Curry hasn't even had to be the best player on the floor in the Finals is evidence of their team dominance. He can be off and they still win the title. So yes - their rings are more indicative of their team dominance and all-time great talent composition than it is of Curry's great MVP-level play in the Finals. After all - he's been to the Finals 3 times (prior to this year) and hasn't been the best player on the floor even once.
>Now that we have all of the facts straight
lol. You said that the 2014-2015 GSW team was a #4 seed bruh. Go back to the lab and present basic facts before you froth at the mouth all dumb & wrong.
88. "so they are robbing him of the MVP trophy?" In response to Reply # 87 Wed Jun-06-18 01:50 PM by Vex_id
I already said that Curry is the engine for GSW - but he just hasn't been the best player on the floor in the 3 years prior. If we're being honest - it was LeBron every year - but for GS - he didn't deserve the MVP trophy in 2015. He was really struggling (for his standards) and wasn't a two-way player. Matthew Dellavedova was really bothering him and preventing him from being his regular season self. He was lucky that Kyrie couldn't play. In 2016 he wilted under pressure (Draymond was the guy who kept them in Game 7) - and it was Klay's performance against OKC that was the reason they even made the Finals that year. In 2017 KD came to save the day (and the dynasty) and was clearly the best player on the floor for GS - and was awarded with the Finals MVP (and rightfully so).
Maybe this year will be different - but Curry hasn't been the best player on the floor in the 3 previous Finals.
62. "to be compared to Magic, it's fair to want him to be the MVP of his team" In response to Reply # 53 Tue Jun-05-18 02:32 PM by Vex_id
in the Finals - on the biggest stage - at least once.
The two season MVPs were great and why he's even in the discussion - but he'll never win another league MVP - so he needs to win a couple Finals MVPs and prove he's the reason why GS wins (as opposed to injuries to the opposing team, vastly inferior competition, and other all stars/teammates carrying him).
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Tue Jun-05-18 02:45 PM
65. "I can't believe OKP is making me diminish Magic Johnson" In response to Reply # 0 Tue Jun-05-18 02:45 PM by auragin_boi
We put all these qualifiers on these younger guys because of romanticism and are grossly dishonest about the comparison.
I guess that's how we do as old men but still...
If we held our heroes to the same standards we hold some of these younger dudes too, the rose goggles come off a bit.
People act like other folx didn't bail the lakers out when Magic was there but because Klay has 1 hot game every 6 game series, he's the hero and Curry's not the catalyst that makes it all possible.
If a dude put 33pts and 13 rebs next to Steph, nobody would make him the focal point of the team.
If Steph came to a team with a 5 time MVP and played with him when he won the MVP, Steph would not be the main dude. He'd be the side kick.
95. "Regular MVP>>>Student of the Month>>>Finals MVP" In response to Reply # 94
As has been discussed more often than it should be, Finals MVP is really not a strong HOF predictor, whereas regular-season MVP is a 100% predictor. There is no need to get all Kobe-ish trying to snuff out even the most remote threat to your guy's legacy
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
99. "this is about steph v. magic" In response to Reply # 95
This is the 4th straight year that Curry hasn't been the best player on his team (let alone the best player on the floor) in the Finals. Steph is absolutely great - legendary - transcendent - but he ain't Magic.
106. "You said facts to something he literally just proved wrong." In response to Reply # 104
Played hell of a defensive series, carried a team on his back with more than just threes, had a god-like Game 4 performance, etc. I wouldnt trust your opinion on anything basketball-related at the moment.
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"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Fri Jun-17-22 01:38 AM
111. "Let’s remind people of Magic’s accomplishments:" In response to Reply # 100 Fri Jun-17-22 01:39 AM by Frank Longo
5 titles 3 MVPs 9 Finals appearances 3 Finals MVPs 9 All-NBA First Teams 12-time All-Star all-time assists per game leader
Steph is currently at: 4 titles 2 MVPs 6 Finals appearances 1 Finals MVP 4 All-NBA First Teams 8-time All-Star all-time 3-point scoring leader
Steph is easily the greatest shooter of all time, he’s the second-best PG of all time, and he’s *obviously* one of the all-time greats. As a side note, when he’s cooking, there are few players in the history of the NBA that are more fun to watch.
But his resume still just isn’t close to Magic’s. That conversation really can’t begin until he matches Magic in rings and/or MVPs.
115. "^^ Its Magic hands down" In response to Reply # 111
I don't think people understand he was the GOAT for a period. People also forget how relatively short his career ended up being unfortunately. So his accomplishments were done in just a what...11 year timeframe? Same reason I don't put even Lebron above Magic but I don't want to derail this thing.
I've been hesitant to put Steph above Isiah, but I'm ready now.
If you consider Steph a PG, he's 2nd.
If he's a SG, he's 3rd.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That is an impressive accomplishment...we're talking only MJ, Magic, and Kobe ahead of him among all guards ever.
Steph is amazing and I'm happy for him and that organization...but he's not above Magic.
118. "I gave Steph his flowers in the game 4 post" In response to Reply # 107
Happy to give him some more. That game 4 performance in Boston was legendary. This is the best Steph's ever played in the Finals. Kerr called it his crowning achievement - and it really was.
But what's there to apologize for? We were debating Steph's all-time place in this post - and many (including me) were saying he's not on Magic's level. Is he now? Some will make that argument, and I'm not mad at it. I think he's still got some terrain to cover to catch Magic - and he's got some time to do it.
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