Per Woj on ESPN.

All deserving.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

naw i fw Grant Hill heavy
first bball jersey i ever had as a kid was this one
https://mk0slamonlinensgt39k.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/gh_1.jpg

<--- Big Baller World Order

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

It is the basketball hall of fame. When you put together his entire career he definitely deserves it. And I hate Duke, but Reston, VA stand up.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

<--- Big Baller World Order

or at least with them.

Nash and Hill both deserve it.

But Webb and Bitchass were both better players.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

I mean he also might've been the most "lemon booty'est" clutch superstar of all time, but he was also great and dominant at every level.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Webber: 5 All-Star, 5 All-NBA
Hill: 7 All-Star, 5 All-NBA, two NCAA rings, one Olympic gold

Hill has an obvious first-ballot resume. Webber obviously deserves to be in as well, but it shouldn't be a surprise that Hill is in before Webber. They love accomplishment resumes, and they love politics, and Hill trumps Webber in both.

Allen should've been a first-ballot guy with this class, though. Pretty ridiculous that he wasn't included imo. Ten-time All-Star, two NBA rings, an Olympic gold. If it wasn't for the fact that, as you alluded to, a lot of people seem not to like him, he would've been in this class too.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

It depends on what they look at in terms of accomplishments and how it always conveniently excludes Chris Webber.

Okay, Hill went to 3 Final Fours, won 2 championships. He was not the best player on the team that won the 2 championships and arguably not the 2nd best player on the team either. Fair?

Webber as a Freshman led a team to a National Title Game. And did the same thing again as a Sophomore.

Hill - Co-Rookie of the Year

Webber - Rookie of the Year.

Webber had better career stats and his teams won more.

Hill didn't get out of the first round until he joined Nash in Phoenix.

And this is following a year when T-Mac got in and never got out of the first round and didn't even play in college.

So it's all murky imo.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

You've never heard of someone beefing with Grant over anything. Grant's one of those dudes that everyone everywhere loves. Webber's not one of those dudes. Is that fair to Webber? Of course not. But it is what it is.

Re: accomplishments, if you want to contextualize, you'd then have to include the fact that Hill was a Scottie Thurman bullshit away from a third title, you'd have to include that he got a higher MVP voting share in 97 than Webber or Allen ever did, you'd have to include that he's one of the few players ever to get Top 100 all-time in total points, assists, and steals, etc.

I think the main reason the HOF voters tend to *not* contextualize too much is for exactly that reason. You could argue all day about what's more important in the grand scheme. So they just seem to look at raw accomplishments and then ask, "Do enough of us like this dude?" Again, not saying that's fair or how it should be. But it is what it is.

And re: T-Mac, 7 ASGs and 7 All-NBAs trumps the whole "didn't win" thing. If you get enough individual accomplishment, they don't really care about all that.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

everybody liked Grant but didn't feel the same way about Chris Webber. Or why everybody likes Steve Nash but didn't feel the same way about Chris Webber.

We can do that, but that will open up a whole other case of boxes with many cans of worms in it.

I will be the wrong person to ask about weighing whether the popularity of player should weigh in with how they are viewed for their talent. Most players I like, are supposedly malcontents (Kareem, Zeke, Rondo, Mark Jackson, Boogie). They seem like great people to me. ***shrugs***

My whole point is that the whole criteria and selection process is not fair. And it's not right.

"We care about team winning in college and the Olympics, but not the NBA?"

"We value All Star Games for some players, All NBA for others, and MVP finishes for some, and scoring titles as well."

It's horribly inconsistent.

Sure Chris Webber didn't make more All-NBA teams... HE PLAYED IN THE BEST BIG MAN ERA IN THE HISTORY OF MODERN BASKETBALL.

How many All-NBA teams did Antonio McDyess make? 1
How many All-NBA teams did Shareef Abdur Rahim make? Not a goddamn 1
How many All-NBA teams did Sheed make? Not a goddamn 1

Chris Webber played against the best bigs of the era and beat most if not all of them. Those are facts.

I don't even like Ray Allen. I spent today watching this dickface on First Take popping shit.

But Ray Allen has 2 rings. Went 10 All Star Games and made 2 All NBA teams.

Mitch Richmond has one bullshit ring. Went to 6 All Star Games and made the All NBA 5 times.

Reggie Miller has no rings. Went to 5 All Star Games and made 3 All NBA teams.

Makes no sense.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Everything I said up there is pretty simple. I never said it was perfect. Never would. But their criteria at this point are pretty clear. Titles, medals, awards, ASGs, All-NBAs play a huge role. Anyone with 6+ All-NBAs is in. All but two guys with 7+ ASGs are in. Why do those seem to be the cut-offs? I can't explain.

Beyond that, it's politics. The voting committee has to like you. It's the same for any award anywhere. Again, it's not fair. But it is what it is. I'm sure C-Webb is out there campaigning. But clearly they think 5 ASGs and 5 All-NBAs aren't enough on their own. So now he's gotta go shake some hands. Not fair. Is what it is.

Tim Hardaway has 5 ASGs and 5 All-NBAs (and an Olympic gold). Not in. Sidney Moncrief has 5 ASGs and 5 All-NBAs. Not in. They've made it clear with their past snubs that that resume isn't enough. So I'm not really surprised that they're making C-Webb hit the campaign trail, even if I'd have him in already and I'd have him in over the two guys I just mentioned.

Why is Reggie in over them? Guaranteed he campaigned his ass off. "I'm one of the best shooters in NBA history." Guess his campaigning worked.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

Meanwhile Chris led the league in rebounding in a season where there was no all star game, and had seasons where he put up 21, 10, and 4 and didn’t make it.

Can’t really go on more AS games for reasons like that.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Not saying it’s fair or it’s right, but it’s a standard they’ve operated pretty consistently on for years. It came up in The Great Bosh Debate of Whenever.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

stop fucking crying. you duke-hatin bitches always got new rules. every. single. time.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Especially when C-Webb’s early 00’s peak produced more than Hill’s peak.

I never liked Zo and hate Georgetown more than Duke and actually like Hill well enough. But Zo deserves HOF, and 1 cheap AS game has nothing to do with it.

All 3 are good enough to be HOF’ers. I’d put Webber in before Hill though - 27 and 11 and first team all NBA season, had his team in game 7 of the WCF. He did more. He’ll get in though.

in totality, grant hill had a superior basketball career than webber. simple as that. you can spin it any way you want, but all you got is about 3/4 more years of prime webber to cyse. if grant ain't get cut down at 27, that 26/7/6 in the year he got injured woulda been stretched out over a few seasons.

you can't cry about one HOF career to bolster another.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Was just making the point that going on more AS games doesn’t really do any justice because he got voted in, in a 4 game season.

It’s a fair point that taking their college careers into account, Hill had more accomplishments.

I’m glad Hill made it, and I think Webber will make it too. Both great players, both got some “what if” because of injuries.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Its sad how underappreciated Nash has actually become imo. prime Nash running a team was a joy to witness

>Nash and Hill both deserve it.
>
>But Webb and Bitchass were both better players.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

------------------
One Hundred.

It's kinda comedy how underrated he is.

like, cwebb fucked mike lupica's wife or something.

because this is the worst HOF exclusion in my life from any sport. you can make a pretty compelling argument CWebb is one of the 30 best players ever. he's damn sure better than everyone who got inducted today.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

So THAT means a CAREER 20-10 guy and one of the 3
best passing big men of all time who lead one of best
offenses of all-time who took a juggernaut to 7 games
in the playoffs wasn't very good.

The bigger problem, of course, is that people aren't bright.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

the kings were the best team in the league all season and matched up well with spurs. that was their year.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

>because this is the worst HOF exclusion in my life from any
>sport. you can make a pretty compelling argument CWebb is one
>of the 30 best players ever. he's damn sure better than
>everyone who got inducted today.

I mean he should be in, but cmon.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

C-Webb: 20.7 pts, 9.8 rebs, 4.2 ast, 1.4 blk, 1.4 stl, 47.9 FG%

Is THAT much morse than...

17.8 pts, 10.0 rebs, 3.7 ast, 1.3 stl, 1.4 blk, 49.7 FG%

Player 2 is a 1st ballot HOF with a DPOY, MVP, ring. But C-Webb had a GREAT career - not to mention NCAA success and comparable stats to all time NBA greats. He didn't get the hardware, but that doesnt negate his insanely productive career

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

but shells was talking about he's arguably a top 30 all-time player & worst HOF snub in any sport in his lifetime and all that. that's a bit much.

and yes KG's career was THAT much better than Webber's.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

and therein lies the difference.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

Possibly one of the most talented Pf's ever, but also very little to show for that talent. him & Derrick Coleman fit this profile to a T.

He's never willed his teams anywhere; never lived up to the moment. I can hardly recall any special Webber moments. Yeah, a brilliant play or there, but nothing enduring.
Even on that Sac team, Bibby was more instrumental to they success than Webber.

Webber at best is a top 15-20 best PF ever. let you tell it, he top 5 all time. lmaoooo

>Possibly one of the most talented Pf's ever, but also very
>little to show for that talent. him & Derrick Coleman fit this
>profile to a T.

Except he had a way, way,better career than
Derrick Coleman.

And even Coleman wasn't really an "underachiever."

>He's never willed his teams anywhere; never lived up to the
>moment. I can hardly recall any special Webber moments. Yeah,
>a brilliant play or there, but nothing enduring.
>Even on that Sac team, Bibby was more instrumental to they
>success than Webber.

Webber was the best player on that Sac team by thousands
of miles.

>Webber at best is a top 15-20 best PF ever. let you tell it,
>he top 5 all time. lmaoooo

He's closer to top 10.

I have a friend that swears CWebb choked in 02 like Lebron choked in 11 and that's ridiculous. They went 7 games against one of the best teams in history, that went to OT in game 7.. Bibby was good that series and hitting shots but remember he was never an all star. Peja was 3 for 13 or some shit in game 7 airballing a crucial 3 near the end. Vlade was an all star once, mostly that team was just a bunch of grinders set around CWebb and really fun to watch. I loved that team and was sad they never got a ring.

goes to....

Yes... him and Derrick Coleman are the same.

Smh

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

>goes to....
>
>Yes... him and Derrick Coleman are the same.
>
>Smh
>

BWAWAHAHAHA!

Sometimes I wonder if my TV was turned to some alternate version of the games from the early 90s through around the time KG and Jesus went to Boston. I stay having crazy NBA convos with dudes my age from that era. Jorn and Kobe especially. And it's like none of the Pistons teams exist to some of these dudes.

But who knows..I grew up loving the transition attack of Magic and dem Lakers while having my pops selling me hard on the 'real basketball' merits of the unassuming ass Celtics. 'Them ugly muthafuckas just get the job done, Junior. You watch what I tell you. Everybody knows about Bird, but that goddamn McHale and Parrish don't be fuckin around, Junior! And ugly ass Dennis Johnson? Shiiiid, that dude can play. He been raising hell since he was in Seattle. He the type that'll score 17 points when you don't expect it and fuck you.' Yep, my dad cussed and still cusses. A lot.

And this was while being in Houston for all of the Rox shenanigans with their damn near accidental big wins, ridiculously inconsistent backcourt play, and 'almost great' eras. 'That big African is quick as hell but when he leaves, the Rockets ain't gon' do shit for a decade at least, Junior. If anybody else shoots too much, he'll run em off. He'll run off all of they young good players right when he's getting old and fuck up their whole team for a long time, Junior. Watch what I tell you...'

Anyway, CWebb was grand as hell unless I'm remembering it all wrong. And Derrick Coleman by comparison was a 'that nigga ain't gon' do shit, Junior..so don't get caught up on him' ass ballplayer.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

I mean, him & Grant was on the same trajectory til the injuries set in for both.

I think what hurt Penny was he actually kept playing even tho he was a shell, thus diluting his earlier dopeness.

Meanwhile, all ppl remember was how great Grant use to be. If he had retired around 2000, he's thrust on an even bigger pedestal imo

Penny started getting hurt a couple years before Hill and had even fewer elite seasons before the injuries got to him.

So I’d say no, he won’t make it even though he had hall of fame level talent before the injuries.

Grant’s resume is transparently better. I don’t think Penny will get in as a player.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

Maurice Cheeks!!!

____
Some will tell you that they love you but they've got an ulterior motive - Oh what a shame
They will tell you that they need you but they've got an ulterior motive - Personal gain

(c) Luciano


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg0-qndkemo

I wanna see nigga talk shit now

LMAO

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

Now it's a laugher.

He's as slam dunk a 1st ballot nigga as you find
south of the Lebron/Kobe class.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Grant Hill.

Ray Allen probably should have been first ballot. He's the snub I'm upset about. Better than Reggie Miller by eons and he was first ballot.

>Ray...Better than Reggie Miller by eons and he
>was first ballot.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

They won't keep C Webb out forever.. #GoBlue
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

As he should be. I was surprised in the convo above at the possibility he wouldn’t be, because it seemed like a no-brainer. Good for Ray.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

Two of my favorite players then got in.

I was surprised there was even a question.

Im not seeing it

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

in detriot he was an all star and yet he felt more like a Made for tv star. in phoenix i was more impressed with his comeback however his NBA Career was in the really Good almost very good however not fully great. NBA HOF takes into consideration your college career. cut and paste.
i like Grant Hill, however losing to Mookie Blaylock and the atlanta hawks year in and year out wasn't good for his legacy in the post season

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

that is the good news of the matter

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills