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Subject: "Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?" Previous topic | Next topic
theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7159 posts
Sun Jan-28-18 01:13 PM

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"Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?"


          

Two separate questions. Thoughts?

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Durant is the answer to both questions
Jan 28th 2018
1
I think Steph more likely to win it than KD after his past few weeks
Jan 28th 2018
2
He's barely the MVP of his team.
Jan 28th 2018
7
      He isn't. He's third.
Jan 29th 2018
22
Jimmy Butler
Jan 28th 2018
3
If the Cavs end up halfway decent, it should be Lebron and by 17 miles.
Jan 28th 2018
4
i've adopted the best player rule
Jan 29th 2018
23
James Harden make-up trophy
Jan 28th 2018
5
He's barely the MVP of his team.
Jan 28th 2018
8
      stop talking
Jan 28th 2018
9
           Harden is amazing. I'm right, though.
Jan 28th 2018
13
                LeBron essentially is Harden from all other years this year
Jan 29th 2018
15
                     Sure, except that Lebron is better at basketball than James Harden.
Jan 29th 2018
17
                          You can make the argument that Lebron should win every year just like...
Jan 29th 2018
25
                               Fair, but it's getting silly with Lebron.
Jan 29th 2018
27
                                    RE: Fair, but it's getting silly with Lebron.
Jan 29th 2018
28
                                    But other guys are playing better AND winning more than LeBron this year...
Jan 29th 2018
33
                                         Actually, no one since Jordan has played "better."
Jan 29th 2018
34
                                              Other guys are playing better this fucking year.
Jan 31st 2018
64
                                                   Nope. No one is better. Than Lebron. Today. He's the best.
Feb 16th 2018
91
Kyrie, Harden
Jan 28th 2018
6
kyrie probably should win. harden will win and he's a very fine choice
Jan 28th 2018
10
^^^
Jan 28th 2018
11
Why SHOULD he win?
Jan 29th 2018
16
Steph should win
Jan 28th 2018
12
He would be my pick
Jan 30th 2018
42
its Beard's turn
Jan 29th 2018
14
RE: Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?
Jan 29th 2018
18
Kyrie and Kyrie
Jan 29th 2018
19
Kinda tough with the injuries
Jan 29th 2018
20
Give me your Kyrie arguments that didn't apply to Isaiah last year.
Jan 29th 2018
21
BOOM!
Jan 29th 2018
24
Dog, this about to be entertaining. Everyone is SO full of shit.
Jan 29th 2018
26
Anyone there? Hellloooo?
Jan 30th 2018
38
      yeah he's definitely not the mvp.
Jan 30th 2018
40
           A lot of "smart" people saying that. There are NO arguments. NONE.
Jan 31st 2018
47
                here's why you're wrong tho:
Jan 31st 2018
48
                     Nah, you're missing some thangs my brutha
Jan 31st 2018
49
                     WATCH GAMES
Jan 31st 2018
50
                     Bron now defends "slightly less hawkishly than he used to" LMAO
Jan 31st 2018
61
                          lol...even I cheesed at that...and I'm a Lebron stan
Jan 31st 2018
63
                          lmao
Jan 31st 2018
67
                          *lets man drive by for layup*
Jan 31st 2018
69
                               Dat leadership
Jan 31st 2018
70
                     yeah this is kinda pointless.
Jan 31st 2018
53
                     That, and Kyrie as MVP is an appealing narrative.
Jan 31st 2018
51
                          yep...he's .4 rebound per game off a triple double average...
Jan 31st 2018
52
                          yeah
Jan 31st 2018
54
RE: Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?
Jan 29th 2018
29
the answer to both questions is still james harden. cry.
Jan 29th 2018
30
Harden is a god who happens to be worse at hoop than Lebron James.
Jan 29th 2018
31
      and if it was the best player award, that might be relevant.
Jan 29th 2018
32
           Russ wasn't "MVP" last season tho. His team was irrelevant.
Jan 29th 2018
35
                what's changed? it's NEVER been the best player award.
Jan 29th 2018
36
                     You right. But Russy wasn't none of that last year.
Jan 30th 2018
37
                          russ definitely wasn't *my* mvp last year
Jan 30th 2018
39
                          If LeBron averaged a triple-double leading the league in scoring...smh
Jan 30th 2018
41
                               So? He wouldn't have done that on a great team. His team was mediocre.
Jan 30th 2018
43
                                    Woulda coulda shoulda... Russ did it. Bron never did.
Jan 31st 2018
62
                                         LOL. Nobody with above a 5th grade reading level cares about that.
Feb 14th 2018
73
cmon. (c) beard
Jan 30th 2018
44
Ahem.
Jan 30th 2018
45
as my grandmother used to say in her mississippi accent:
Jan 31st 2018
46
Harden last night said it's him.
Jan 31st 2018
55
Kevin Love
Jan 31st 2018
56
lulz
Jan 31st 2018
57
      Might be the point guard they start who's short for a human
Jan 31st 2018
58
           lulz
Jan 31st 2018
59
                LMAO!!!
Jan 31st 2018
60
                     you're really getting your money's worth out of your IT schadenfreude
Jan 31st 2018
65
                          LOL...he IS...it's as if IT came out with a Kyrie dis track....
Jan 31st 2018
66
                          It makes me mad, cuz I used to really like IT.
Jan 31st 2018
68
harden's last 3 weeks:
Feb 13th 2018
71
Weird timing. He has a top 5 all time poing guard next to him.
Feb 14th 2018
72
      who's shitting on bron?
Feb 14th 2018
74
      Bigging up anyone that isn't Bron is shitting on Bron
Feb 14th 2018
75
      Fair, but see above. Niggas being hoe-like and petty about Lebron.
Feb 14th 2018
80
      Lebron had a pretty good pg next to him and ran him off, that's the...
Feb 14th 2018
76
           Kyrie isn't nor ever will be as good as Chris Paul (and no shame in that...
Feb 14th 2018
77
                no disagreement but Lebron's team was still better with Kyrie
Feb 14th 2018
78
                     They were better when Tristan wasn't ass cheeks too.
Feb 14th 2018
79
                          yeah too bad Lebron forced the Cavs to give him that big ass contract...
Feb 14th 2018
82
In this moment, its Harden.
Feb 14th 2018
81
^^^^
Feb 26th 2018
95
unless Bron continues @ his absurd clip and Cavs rally to win the East
Feb 14th 2018
83
best record now too? yeah, there's no real argument for anyone else.
Feb 16th 2018
84
1. harden 2. bron 3. buckets 4. steph
Feb 16th 2018
85
is there room in the convo for a brief nod at LA?
Feb 16th 2018
86
RE: is there room in the convo for a brief nod at LA?
Feb 16th 2018
87
Aldridge
Feb 16th 2018
88
      RE: Aldridge
Feb 16th 2018
92
           lol #93
Feb 16th 2018
94
who?
Feb 16th 2018
89
First place of what?
Feb 16th 2018
90
gak. i suck at the internet lately lol
Feb 16th 2018
93
Lmao, no
Feb 27th 2018
96
      Bron, Harden, Embiid, Giannis, Buckets
Feb 27th 2018
97
           Horseshit...
Feb 27th 2018
98
re: AD
Mar 01st 2018
99
AD is balling but its Harden's trophy period.
Mar 01st 2018
100
yerp.
Mar 07th 2018
103
RE: re: AD
Apr 08th 2018
109
Just give James the trophy now (vid):
Mar 01st 2018
101
Harden
Mar 01st 2018
102
Same as who shoulda gotten it last year - Harden
Mar 07th 2018
104
goodness....
Apr 07th 2018
105
Should: LeBron Will: Harden
Apr 07th 2018
106
Lebron SHOULD Win, Harden Probably WILL WIN
Apr 08th 2018
107
I've been Harden all year - but Bron's push since February
Apr 08th 2018
108
James Harden is the NBA's Susan Luci and he is due
Apr 08th 2018
110
Sidebar: Steph's team? Dubs 3-3 wit Durant in, curry out.
Apr 08th 2018
111
damn Bron walked him down...
Apr 09th 2018
112
Dame should win it...Beard will.
Apr 09th 2018
113
harden. period.
Apr 09th 2018
114
the mvp race is over, and it’s harden in a landslide.
Apr 09th 2018
115
shit's been over. dunno why anybody's wasting breath arguing otherwise.
Apr 09th 2018
116
y'all know I don't normally cape for Bron like that...
Apr 09th 2018
117
aren't u one of the ppl who was decrying "changing the criteria" for MVP
Apr 09th 2018
119
and Harden hasn't started yet...
Apr 09th 2018
120
They really went out of their way here...
Apr 09th 2018
121
adjusting for pace:
Apr 10th 2018
125
      do you know how many random lists we could make up that Lebron...
Apr 10th 2018
126
           never said otherwise.
Apr 10th 2018
128
                That's a better stat to me
Apr 10th 2018
129
Harden has his team #1 in the league
Apr 10th 2018
132
Oh, it's Harden. Just weird how much better Lebron is as a player.
Apr 09th 2018
118
This is basically like the year Barkley won the MVP.
Apr 10th 2018
124
you had Bron at about what - 6-8 in the MVP race?
Apr 10th 2018
127
      wasn't that back in November? you still mad about that?
Apr 10th 2018
130
           it was november of LAST season.
Apr 10th 2018
131
                LOL! I searched for that post but couldn't find it, now I know why.
Apr 10th 2018
133
                it was actually at the beginning of this year
Apr 10th 2018
134
                     this is an complete lie.
Apr 10th 2018
135
                     the receipts are stacked up on the counter
Apr 11th 2018
137
                          lulz
Apr 11th 2018
139
                               fitting that there are 2 L's in 'lulz'
Apr 11th 2018
140
                     Vex, I know your schtick but you're flat out lying here
Apr 12th 2018
145
RE: Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?
Apr 09th 2018
122
Harden will win it but Bron got his team to 50 wins and a division title
Apr 10th 2018
123
It should be the LeBron James MVP Award for Individual Greatness
Apr 11th 2018
136
The First Annual LeBron James Award for Outstanding Achievement
Apr 11th 2018
138
Z-LO DA GAWD:
Apr 11th 2018
141
Lowe: James and Harden are neck-and-neck in almost every metric
Apr 11th 2018
142
if bron's team won league-best 65 games & harden's was a 50 win 4th seed
Apr 12th 2018
146
      How were the Rockets without Chris Paul, tho? : - (
Apr 12th 2018
147
      but it is
Apr 12th 2018
148
      Oh, I'm down with Team Harden. Here's what I'm saying:
Apr 12th 2018
149
           ^^
Apr 13th 2018
153
                and by "as of late", you mean the last 60 years?
Apr 13th 2018
155
                Lebron fatigue isn't 60 years old.
Apr 13th 2018
157
                     It has rarely been the best player award
Apr 13th 2018
159
                          Yeah, it's also not the most "valuable" player either.
Apr 13th 2018
160
                               K
Apr 13th 2018
162
                                    LOL. No, we're making a basic point: MVP = Lebron fatigue award
Apr 13th 2018
163
                                         That's bullshit...Harden wins according to traditional criteria
Apr 13th 2018
169
                                              What "traditional" criteria? So, not the criteria from like, last year?
Apr 14th 2018
171
                                                   "traditional criteria" means: a.) Not LeBron; b.) Someone New
Apr 19th 2018
182
                                                        Exactamundo. "Not Lebron" IS one of the top MVP criteria.
Apr 19th 2018
185
                Honest question
Apr 13th 2018
161
                     RE: Honest question
Apr 13th 2018
164
                     save the keystrokes.
Apr 13th 2018
165
                          EXACTLY. We change the criteria to not give it Lebron, every year.
Apr 13th 2018
167
                               "Best player on one of the few best teams" has always been the criteria
Apr 13th 2018
170
                                    Right, except when it's not. LOL. Like, last year.
Apr 14th 2018
172
      Better than the Cavs were with Lebron : - )
Apr 12th 2018
150
           Houston WITHOUT Harden was pretty damn good too : - (
Apr 13th 2018
151
                That was from last season ;-)
Apr 13th 2018
154
                     I know, that makes it even worse : - (
Apr 13th 2018
156
      Why did Russ win it last year? His team didn't have the best record
Apr 13th 2018
152
           And Russy wasn't nearly as good a player last yr as Lebron this yr
Apr 13th 2018
158
           the same reason you said Lebron should've won Finals MVP last year
Apr 13th 2018
166
                Uh. No, that argument was because Lebron was the best player.
Apr 13th 2018
168
this is like the Nash year. Harden will get it, "but..."
Apr 11th 2018
143
Russy averaged a triple double, give it to him again
Apr 12th 2018
144
must be nice to go 2-18 from the field and still win by 20
Apr 19th 2018
173
Must be nice to only post after your guy wins one
Apr 19th 2018
174
Lebron is "aloof?" LMAO. I've officially seen it all.
Apr 19th 2018
175
      Certainly not by any statistical measure that takes defense
Apr 19th 2018
177
           LMAO. Most advanced stats take it all into account, idiot.
Apr 19th 2018
183
           Please, tell me about which advanced stats take defense into account
Apr 19th 2018
188
                No, you're actually just not very bright.
Apr 19th 2018
191
                     I have lots of stats, the best stats
Apr 19th 2018
192
           statistical measures like "aloof" ?
Apr 19th 2018
186
of course you don't think Beard deserves it lol
Apr 19th 2018
176
      nah I've said that Beard deserves it.
Apr 19th 2018
178
           Yeah, like he was great in a team system last year
Apr 19th 2018
179
                RE: Yeah, like he was great in a team system last year
Apr 19th 2018
180
                     I love Harden, but ppl acting like there are NO pro-Lebron arguments LOL
Apr 19th 2018
184
                          There are tons
Apr 19th 2018
189
                               RE: There are tons
Apr 19th 2018
190
It's Lebron
Apr 19th 2018
181
I concur!
Apr 19th 2018
187
https://cheezburger.com/5802263296/landslide
Jun 26th 2018
193
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_PQ4fRQ5Kc
Jun 26th 2018
194

Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
16400 posts
Sun Jan-28-18 01:16 PM

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1. "Durant is the answer to both questions "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7159 posts
Sun Jan-28-18 03:44 PM

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2. "I think Steph more likely to win it than KD after his past few weeks"
In response to Reply # 1


          

As long as Steph doesn't miss more games, i guess

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
51797 posts
Sun Jan-28-18 09:10 PM

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7. "He's barely the MVP of his team. "
In response to Reply # 1


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bshelly
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70871 posts
Mon Jan-29-18 09:15 AM

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22. "He isn't. He's third."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

He might be the best player on the team, maybe. But Steph and Draymond are both more valuable to the Warriors than he is. If I had to pick a Warriors MVP, it's probably Draymond.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
2769 posts
Sun Jan-28-18 04:18 PM

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3. "Jimmy Butler "
In response to Reply # 0


          

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
51797 posts
Sun Jan-28-18 04:36 PM

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4. "If the Cavs end up halfway decent, it should be Lebron and by 17 miles. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Two problems

a) Cavs are awful.

b) His name is Lebron James, and we don't like to give
him MVP trophies




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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bshelly
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Mon Jan-29-18 09:17 AM

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23. "i've adopted the best player rule"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

the mvp should have to be a guy who you can make a strong case is the best player in the world. that means dudes like russ, harden, and (for now) giannis need not apply. it's either steph, durant, or bron.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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ThaTruth
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5. "James Harden make-up trophy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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8. "He's barely the MVP of his team. "
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
69998 posts
Sun Jan-28-18 10:07 PM

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9. "stop talking"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Orbit_Established
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13. "Harden is amazing. I'm right, though. "
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


MVP is Lebron right now, and it's not really very
close.

Someone else could close the gap tho.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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Mon Jan-29-18 01:12 AM

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15. "LeBron essentially is Harden from all other years this year"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

Almost unbelievable efficiency stats, complete runner of a show that's an elite offense, surrounded by shooters who don't shoot and a coach whose light touch can border on the absent side, absolutely cannot be bothered to play D, either the worst or one of the worst (and my Lord has he been one of the worst this year) defenders on one of the league's worst defenses.

I actually think Harden's numbers are gaudier, his team's definitely better, and he and his team play defense these days. I am most certainly biased, and yeah, James Harden is a more deserving MVP winner this year SO FAR than LeBron James.

It's the assholes in Golden State that I'm worried about, both that they might actually win and that they might *gulp* deserve it more. But there are two of them and also fuck them and that team.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jan-29-18 08:13 AM

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17. "Sure, except that Lebron is better at basketball than James Harden. "
In response to Reply # 15


  

          


We just grade Lebron James on a negative curve, have his
entire career.

>It's the assholes in Golden State that I'm worried about, both
>that they might actually win and that they might *gulp*
>deserve it more. But there are two of them and also fuck them
>and that team.

Both Golden State guys are incredible.

But there is no argument for them, really.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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25. "You can make the argument that Lebron should win every year just like..."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

in Jordan's prime you could've made the argument that he should win every year if you just want to flat out make it about who's the best player but that's not what the award is really about plus that's boring.

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Mon Jan-29-18 12:35 PM

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27. "Fair, but it's getting silly with Lebron. "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>in Jordan's prime you could've made the argument that he
>should win every year if you just want to flat out make it
>about who's the best player but that's not what the award is
>really about plus that's boring.

It has become a race to find an excuse to not award him.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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28. "RE: Fair, but it's getting silly with Lebron. "
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>>in Jordan's prime you could've made the argument that he
>>should win every year if you just want to flat out make it
>>about who's the best player but that's not what the award is
>>really about plus that's boring.
>
>It has become a race to find an excuse to not award him.

You're right but like I said they did the same thing to Mike he could easily have another 3-5 MVP's.

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7159 posts
Mon Jan-29-18 06:14 PM

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33. "But other guys are playing better AND winning more than LeBron this year..."
In response to Reply # 27


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
51797 posts
Mon Jan-29-18 08:11 PM

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34. "Actually, no one since Jordan has played "better.""
In response to Reply # 33


  

          


But negative curve Lebron James, as we always do.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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64. "Other guys are playing better this fucking year."
In response to Reply # 34


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Feb-16-18 01:33 PM

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91. "Nope. No one is better. Than Lebron. Today. He's the best. "
In response to Reply # 64


  

          


I say give Harden the MVP because he deserves one

But Bron is the best.

Cry, wimp.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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B9
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6. "Kyrie, Harden"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
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10. "kyrie probably should win. harden will win and he's a very fine choice"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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11. "^^^"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Hungry Hippos: The Movie. Now available to read: http://www.russellhainline.com.

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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16. "Why SHOULD he win?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I don't understand his candidacy for MVP other that that he is the best player on a very good team. How has he been better than Bron, Harden, or the two Warriors? Not why he's good or has had an amazing year or has taught this team how to win. How has he played better than those four this year?

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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12. "Steph should win"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-----------------

www.albumism.com

It's the Hed Rush: http://hedrush.podomatic.com/
"We take rap serious, it's not a hobby to us."

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
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42. "He would be my pick"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

People would have a solid argument that KD or even Draymond would split his votes. And granted, CP3 has missed a good chunk of the year and likely wouldn't get votes, but if Harden can be a candidate with another All-NBA player than Steph can as well.

He's really the player that makes them go. I'm probably not telling you anything new but the team's on/off Net Rating is historic. Even moreso than Durant's ratings, which in his defense are really good, but not in Steph's range.

The most comfortable and wisest people are those who watch their health when they are healthy; guard their country when it is untroubled; and cultivate their fields well when weeds are nonexistent or scarce. - Reverend Dosung Yoo

  

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melmag
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14. "its Beard's turn"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he's finished top 3 the last 2 seasons

  

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bnicedh
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18. "RE: Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Kyrie SHOULD win...but Harden will win it.

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
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19. "Kyrie and Kyrie"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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auragin_boi
Member since Aug 01st 2003
20054 posts
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20. "Kinda tough with the injuries"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As soon as someone gets hot, they get hurt (Curry, Harden, KD, Giannis).

Only two guys in the race that have been mostly healthy are Bron and Kyrie.

Here's how I see it:
SHOULD = 1-Harden, 2-Kyrie, 3-Steph, 4-Bron...and reason being is because while missing CP3 for a big chunk of the season, he help the Rox still get #2 in the west. Kyrie second because he's essentially leading a C's team that's almost all new to the east best record.

Couldn't go wrong with either.

WILL = Harden. Mainly based on body of work. BUT if LeBron and the Cavs go on another 19 of 21 run like they did earlier this year and the headlines go from how they were struggling to how they might win it...He'll get another one. Only way I see Kyrie or Steph winning is if Harden goes down for a few weeks after the allstar break and they both keep balling like they've been the last few weeks.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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21. "Give me your Kyrie arguments that didn't apply to Isaiah last year. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


I'm listening.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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24. "BOOM!"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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26. "Dog, this about to be entertaining. Everyone is SO full of shit. "
In response to Reply # 24
Mon Jan-29-18 10:20 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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38. "Anyone there? Hellloooo? "
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Jan-30-18 07:33 AM

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40. "yeah he's definitely not the mvp."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

great season and all, but folx are doing way too much with the mvp talk.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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47. "A lot of "smart" people saying that. There are NO arguments. NONE. "
In response to Reply # 40


  

          


EVERY Kyrie argument can be made for Isaiah last year.

EVERY single one.

This is my point, Dula: even with the Cavs woes, Lebron
is a way, way, way more thorough candidate than Kyrie.
Almost nobody has that.

Why?

Because of the Lebron Tax. We look for reasons to discredit
him. It's embarrassing.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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48. "here's why you're wrong tho:"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

the kyrie argument is basically the "best player on a #1 seed" argument.

but the same people making that argument this year for kyrie were making the same argument in the past for lebron when his team was the #1 seed.

so again: it's not really an anti-lebron selective criteria thing. there actually are other quality candidates.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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49. "Nah, you're missing some thangs my brutha"
In response to Reply # 48
Wed Jan-31-18 11:49 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>the kyrie argument is basically the "best player on a #1
>seed" argument.

Right, which exposes the contradiction with Isaiah last
year. None of these bums were saying Isaiah was MVP.

And Russ wasn't anywhere near no damn 1 seed....which
brings me to:

>but the same people making that argument this year for kyrie
>were making the same argument in the past for lebron when his
>team was the #1 seed.

Nah, Lebron's cases have always COMBINED the "best player
on a 1-seed" with:

1) His stat lines being always very, very, very stupid
(ala Russy. UNLIKE Russy, he didn't put up those stupid
stat lines on mediocre teams. So Lebron's cases have
always been better than Russy's last year, if we're
being real)

2) He's been the best player in the world, by a lot,
for a decade+ (hasn't really been close since Kobe's prime,
though KD is shrinking the gap *slightly*).

So his cases have been shutdown for almost 10 years
straight, from multiple angles:

- Best player on top team
- Stupid ignorant funky ass statlines (ON good teams)
- Flat out best player

Hell, dude even defends (slightly less hawkishly than
he used to, but he does, and well)

The reason we don't award him is because we like finding
reasons not to. And that's all good. I just wish we'd admit it,
and stop shape-shifting and copping pleas.

Any nigga saying Kyrie is the MVP this year is dishonest,
dumb, mad, or probably all of the above.








>so again: it's not really an anti-lebron selective criteria
>thing. there actually are other quality candidates.

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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50. "WATCH GAMES"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

>2) He's been the best player in the world, by a lot,
>for a decade+ (hasn't really been close since Kobe's prime,
>though KD is shrinking the gap *slightly*).

It ain't that slight.

>Hell, dude even defends (slightly less hawkishly than
>he used to, but he does, and well)

NO, he doesn't. He's been actually, unquestionably godawful at D this year, and only so much of that can be attributed to an indifference to seeding or saving his body for the playoffs or what the fuck ever we want to attribute it to every year. He's been outright bad on that end.


>The reason we don't award him is because we like finding
>reasons not to. And that's all good. I just wish we'd admit
>it,
>and stop shape-shifting and copping pleas.

This has always been a solid argument to rock with, that Bron's historical greatness goes less appreciated than a guy who has a legitimate claim to GOAT status should. But not this year, my dude. This is an antiquated argument when Bron's out here letting Anthony Tolliver and Henry Ellenson and Stanley "I work real hard sometimes" Johnson get buckets on him.

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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61. "Bron now defends "slightly less hawkishly than he used to" LMAO"
In response to Reply # 50


          

  

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Dstl1
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63. "lol...even I cheesed at that...and I'm a Lebron stan"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

.

...I wipe my feet on your CD covers like welcome mats. Bienvenidos...How bout that? (c)Ab Soul

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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67. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

just a year ago, dude was still claiming that lebron was elite and on kawhi's level defensively. he's fucking ridiculous with that shit.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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69. "*lets man drive by for layup*"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

*glares and gives stink eye to teammate on the weak side 20 ft away from the action*

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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40thStreetBlack
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70. "Dat leadership"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

>*glares and gives stink eye to teammate on the weak side 20
>ft away from the action*

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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53. "yeah this is kinda pointless."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

you're basically saying that every single person on earth has to agree that lebron has been the nba's most valuable player this season, and anyone who doesn't is either dumb and/or hates lebron.

that's a foolish position, fam. lolz. i can't really debate that seriously.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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51. "That, and Kyrie as MVP is an appealing narrative."
In response to Reply # 48
Wed Jan-31-18 12:47 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

The guy who played Robin to Bron's Batman leads the Celtics to the 1 seed in his first post-Bron season *after* they lost Gordon Hayward? That's a sexy narrative. Easily digestible. There's an underdog element *and* a "they're the 1 seed" element.

So much of it has to do every year with narrative. There are years where the most valuable player and/or the best player don't necessarily win. Because a different player who was also very great and very valuable had the better narrative.

Even last year-- yes, Westbrook had statistically the best season, but it was also the fun "average a triple double" narrative. This year, he very well could average a triple double AGAIN by year's end, but despite being damn close today to the same statistical achievement* that won him the MVP last season, he's not the favorite, and most online betting markets have him pegged around sixth or seventh best odds to win.** The narrative has changed.

*- yes, I'm aware the points are down as is his outside shooting, but still-- we may have a guy average a triple double this season THAT DOESN'T FINISH TOP 3 IN MVP VOTING.

**- current odds order from what I can find: Harden heavy favorite, followed by, depending on the market, Lebron, Giannis, Durant, Irving, Kyrie, Curry, then Westbrook. Order varies place to place obviously.

Hungry Hippos: The Movie. Now available to read: http://www.russellhainline.com.

  

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Dstl1
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52. "yep...he's .4 rebound per game off a triple double average..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

this year and leads the league in triple doubles, by far. Last year, like you said...there was absolutely a narrative. Second best player in the league bolts and the feisty point guard puts his team on his back while averaging a triple double AND getting more triple doubles in one season than anyone else ever. I'm here for narratives. Problem is...what is the MVP SUPPOSED to be? Everyone has a different view and thus...debates about it every damn year.

...I wipe my feet on your CD covers like welcome mats. Bienvenidos...How bout that? (c)Ab Soul

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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54. "yeah"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

between the robin thing and hayward going down, kyrie definitely has the best narrative. and if they'd kept up their early season pace and were miles out in front of toronto i'd give him more serious consideration.

as it stands tho, i don't see any argument for him ahead of harden.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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29. "RE: Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/01/26/mvp-ladder-2017-18-week-15-russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-reemerges#/

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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30. "the answer to both questions is still james harden. cry."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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31. "Harden is a god who happens to be worse at hoop than Lebron James. "
In response to Reply # 30


  

          


What a ballplayer, though.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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32. "and if it was the best player award, that might be relevant. "
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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35. "Russ wasn't "MVP" last season tho. His team was irrelevant. "
In response to Reply # 32


  

          


Let's just admit that we change the criteria to
not give it to Lebron. Ain't no thang. It's all
good. But it's true.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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36. "what's changed? it's NEVER been the best player award."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

if it were then kareem would have 10 and jordan would have 10.

narrative and team record have always been factors. nothing's been changed specifically to slight lebron. that's all in your head.

i really don't get ppl who just want mvp to automatically go to the consensus best player year in and year out. can't imagine anything more fucking boring. in fact, some of my favorite recent campaigns have been cases where the winner clearly and undeniably was NOT the league's best player (AI, nash, rose)

i also do get why anyone would think that this bullshit-ass limp-dick lackluster fucking season the cavs are having is worthy of any sort of awards or honors but hey, do you.

so lebron getting like 10 in a row, with no in-season suspense whatsoever. that shit's hot to you? that's preferable to what's actually played out over the last decade? if so, why?

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Jan-30-18 02:41 AM

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37. "You right. But Russy wasn't none of that last year. "
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


>
>i also do get why anyone would think that this bullshit-ass
>limp-dick lackluster fucking season the cavs are having is
>worthy of any sort of awards or honors but hey, do you.

OKC was "lackluster" last year too tho.

>so lebron getting like 10 in a row, with no in-season suspense
>whatsoever. that shit's hot to you? that's preferable to
>what's actually played out over the last decade? if so, why?

Nah bro. We good.

I'm just saying.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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39. "russ definitely wasn't *my* mvp last year"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

wasn't even in my top 3 (harden, bron, kawhi)

but i understood why he won (first trip dub avg in however many years) and was basically fine with it (again, narrative matters and always has)

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7159 posts
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41. "If LeBron averaged a triple-double leading the league in scoring...smh"
In response to Reply # 37


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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43. "So? He wouldn't have done that on a great team. His team was mediocre. "
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


: )

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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62. "Woulda coulda shoulda... Russ did it. Bron never did."
In response to Reply # 43


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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73. "LOL. Nobody with above a 5th grade reading level cares about that. "
In response to Reply # 62


  

          


Nobody who is halfway intelligent cares about that shit.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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40thStreetBlack
Charter member
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Tue Jan-30-18 10:03 PM

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44. "cmon. (c) beard"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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45. "Ahem."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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46. "as my grandmother used to say in her mississippi accent:"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

"baby... some folk just don't believe fat meat is greasy"

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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-DJ R-Tistic-
Member since Nov 06th 2008
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55. "Harden last night said it's him."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It's nothing like last year, where there were arguments for the top 3, even four. It seems like Harden is best bet, and no one else is really close at this point of the year.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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56. "Kevin Love"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-31-18 01:17 PM by Innocent Criminal

  

          

The Cavs have given up 148 and 125 points in games without him. Obviously he's their defensive anchor.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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57. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

i know you're being facetious, but he actually is tied with lebron for the team's best defensive rating. they're right around a league average defense when he's on the floor.

that's why it's funny to me that he's the first name out of ppl's mouths when they discuss the cavs' atrocious defense. like he's the one killing them.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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58. "Might be the point guard they start who's short for a human"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

Much less an NBA player. Or the roster of 36 year olds who were really good six years ago.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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59. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02/gamelog/2018

in 8 of his 11 games so far, they've been outscored while he's been on the floor. 5 times by 15+, 3 times by 20 or more.

“We’ve been a lowest-five defensive team in the NBA the whole time,” Thomas told reporters last weekend. “So when I come back, it’s my fault now? Which, life isn’t fair, but that’s not fair, bro.”

lololz

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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60. "LMAO!!!"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Goddamn, how did I miss that quote, that's a thing of *beauty.*

Hungry Hippos: The Movie. Now available to read: http://www.russellhainline.com.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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65. "you're really getting your money's worth out of your IT schadenfreude"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Dstl1
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66. "LOL...he IS...it's as if IT came out with a Kyrie dis track...."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

all the dude did was get traded/get his heart broken by his former GM.

...I wipe my feet on your CD covers like welcome mats. Bienvenidos...How bout that? (c)Ab Soul

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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68. "It makes me mad, cuz I used to really like IT."
In response to Reply # 65
Wed Jan-31-18 07:03 PM by Frank Longo

  

          

Liked him at Washington, was rooting for him.

Then people said he was better than Kyrie. I was even okay with that— he had a really good season (there were lunatics on this board who said it before the Celtics, but whatever, can’t reason with trolls).

But then when I read some people saying that Cleveland won the trade because IT was better than Kyrie? After all Kyrie did for Cleveland? Especially when I’d see people calling IT a better defender— which wasn’t even true when Kyrie was a *bad* defender? Yeah, I got mad. The defense thing in particular set me off.

So yeah, I’m probably having a little too much fun. It was just *so obvious* Kyrie was gonna be left holding a bag of washed dudes after the offseason, so I’m really really happy everything went down the way it did. The fact that the same folks who tried to justify the trade being better for Cleveland are now the ones saying “wait, IT’s not playing defense!! What the hell??” when that makes it crystal clear they’d never watched him play a game? Yeah, that’s icing.

I hope IT gets out of there and gets a chance at a fresh start somewhere else, so I can go back to liking him again for what he is— a fun little dude with a lot of offensive skill.

Hungry Hippos: The Movie. Now available to read: http://www.russellhainline.com.

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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71. "harden's last 3 weeks:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

33 ppg, 8.8 apg, 6.1 rpg, 1.6 spg, 65% TS, +10.4

oh and his teams's 9-0.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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72. "Weird timing. He has a top 5 all time poing guard next to him. "
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

>33 ppg, 8.8 apg, 6.1 rpg, 1.6 spg, 65% TS, +10.4
>
>oh and his teams's 9-0.

What all-time player does Lebron have next to him?

And I still say give Harden his MVP, because he deserves it,
but your timing is still weird and LOL @ us continuing to find
reasons to shit on Lebron


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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74. "who's shitting on bron?"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

i'm bigging beard up. the rest is your imagination.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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75. "Bigging up anyone that isn't Bron is shitting on Bron"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

You haven't learned this yet? Jerry Rice is the best receiver of all time? You're shitting on Bron. Nas is the greatest rapper of all time? You're shitting on Bron. Happy Birthday Mom! What about Bron? Never before in the history of sports has one athlete needed so much validation.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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80. "Fair, but see above. Niggas being hoe-like and petty about Lebron. "
In response to Reply # 74


  

          


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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76. "Lebron had a pretty good pg next to him and ran him off, that's the..."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

opposite of being valuable to your team lol

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Orbit_Established
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77. "Kyrie isn't nor ever will be as good as Chris Paul (and no shame in that..."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

>opposite of being valuable to your team lol


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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78. "no disagreement but Lebron's team was still better with Kyrie "
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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79. "They were better when Tristan wasn't ass cheeks too. "
In response to Reply # 78


  

          


So there's also that.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ThaTruth
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82. "yeah too bad Lebron forced the Cavs to give him that big ass contract..."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

he can't COP PLEAS about teammates when he's the reason for the teammates he has lol

We all know Lebron is the best player but Harden is having a better season on a better team.

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Castro
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81. "In this moment, its Harden. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

His scoring will dip now with Green and ISO Joe are there, but he is rolling.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Castro
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95. "^^^^"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Vex_id
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83. "unless Bron continues @ his absurd clip and Cavs rally to win the East"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Harden.

Even if Cavs can somehow win the East and have a top 3 record in the league - still might be Harden - especially if HOU overcomes GSW for best record.

Right now - Harden has been the most effective dynamo in the game.

-->

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Feb-16-18 11:20 AM

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84. "best record now too? yeah, there's no real argument for anyone else."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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sndesai1
Member since Feb 02nd 2013
1208 posts
Fri Feb-16-18 11:53 AM

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85. "1. harden 2. bron 3. buckets 4. steph"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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cgonz00cc
Member since Aug 01st 2002
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Fri Feb-16-18 12:07 PM

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86. "is there room in the convo for a brief nod at LA?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he wont win, and most likely wont even be top 5

but hes kept that team in first place all year

id like to see him pick up some points at least

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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87. "RE: is there room in the convo for a brief nod at LA?"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

LA?

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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cgonz00cc
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88. "Aldridge"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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92. "RE: Aldridge"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

I was confused cause i usually know him as LMA.


And then I thought you meant him but the Spurs arent in first

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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cgonz00cc
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94. "lol #93"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
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89. "who?"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
56332 posts
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90. "First place of what?"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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cgonz00cc
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93. "gak. i suck at the internet lately lol"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

forgot top 3 seeds arent division winners anymore

still feel the same way about aldridge tho

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

  

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bshelly
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96. "Lmao, no"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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bshelly
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97. "Bron, Harden, Embiid, Giannis, Buckets"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

Explanation: I have no idea what to do with Durant and Steph. They’re both clearly in the three-man top tier with Bron, but it’s also clear that the Dubs would still be title favorites if either went down

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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ThaTruth
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98. "Horseshit..."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>Explanation: I have no idea what to do with Durant and Steph.
>They’re both clearly in the three-man top tier with Bron,
>but it’s also clear that the Dubs would still be title
>favorites if either went down

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21590 posts
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99. "re: AD"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

at this point, i think he's the only other guy with any chance of actually winning the thing.

steph and KD will split votes.

the way the cavs played in the 6 weeks btwn xmas and the deadline damaged lebron's campaign irreparably in a lot of voters' eyes.

bucks won't have enough wins.

i think harden's got it 99% sewn up, with that 1% being the chance that AD continues to throw up 35/15/3/3/3 lines and carries NOLA to a top 4 or 5 seed with boogie missing half the season.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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100. "AD is balling but its Harden's trophy period."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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40thStreetBlack
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103. "yerp."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

I mean Harden's got it locked up, but Davis is placing himself in the proverbial conversation.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Vex_id
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109. "RE: re: AD"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>at this point, i think he's the only other guy with any
>chance of actually winning the thing.
>
>steph and KD will split votes.
>
>the way the cavs played in the 6 weeks btwn xmas and the
>deadline damaged lebron's campaign irreparably in a lot of
>voters' eyes.

LOL. You wrote Bron off waaaay too soon.

It's Harden & Bron. Nobody else.


-->

  

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Vex_id
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101. "Just give James the trophy now (vid):"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx3S73InQ04

-->

  

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ambient1
Member since May 23rd 2007
40864 posts
Thu Mar-01-18 09:13 AM

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102. "Harden"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

=======================================
Coolin...

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
40842 posts
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104. "Same as who shoulda gotten it last year - Harden"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Dstl1
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105. "goodness...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/865_nst/status/982773309082427392

...I wipe my feet on your CD covers like welcome mats. Bienvenidos...How bout that? (c)Ab Soul

  

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nipsey
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106. "Should: LeBron Will: Harden"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________
Podcast Now on iTunes and Google:
http://tinyurl.com/JTTOU-iTunesSubscribe
Twitter: @nipsey @JTTOUPodcast

Last 3 things I watched:

Collateral (BBC Series): B-
Spectral (Netflix Movie): B
Claws Season 2: B

  

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RexLongfellow
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107. "Lebron SHOULD Win, Harden Probably WILL WIN"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I WANT Dame Dolla to win...the fact that Portland's in the 3rd spot and he's balled all year should not be slept on

  

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Vex_id
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Sun Apr-08-18 04:13 PM

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108. "I've been Harden all year - but Bron's push since February"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

has been unreal. He has been outshining everyone demonstratively and has been basically averaging a trip-dub with dumb efficiency and dominance since the all-star break. He hasn't missed a game and you take him off the Cavs and they're in the lottery.

He has as good of a case as Harden.

-->

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
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Sun Apr-08-18 06:14 PM

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110. "James Harden is the NBA's Susan Luci and he is due"
In response to Reply # 0


          

in all honesty the runner up this year should be Anthony Davis because he lost Boogie and he truly made that team jump.

Bron while he has stats, he did push the re set button on the whole team and who else gets to do that?

James harden been in the mix 3 out of the past 4 years.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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Riot
Member since May 25th 2005
14323 posts
Sun Apr-08-18 09:10 PM

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111. "Sidebar: Steph's team? Dubs 3-3 wit Durant in, curry out."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Only quality win was over the thunder
...Which is personal





Or are they just at the 'sleepwalk until playoffs' mode



)))--####---###--(((

bunda
<-.-> ^_^ \^0^/
get busy living, or get busy dying.

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Apr-09-18 09:10 AM

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112. "damn Bron walked him down..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
13038 posts
Mon Apr-09-18 01:06 PM

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113. "Dame should win it...Beard will."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
48892 posts
Mon Apr-09-18 01:15 PM

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114. "harden. period. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Mon Apr-09-18 02:24 PM

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115. "the mvp race is over, and it’s harden in a landslide."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Most Valuable Player race unfolded like a melodrama, with pundits fanning the flames for candidates like Kevin Durant, LeBron James, and DeMar DeRozan, among others, throughout the season. But after finishing in the top 10 in MVP voting in each of the past five seasons, including second in 2014-15 (behind Stephen Curry) and 2016-17 (behind Russell Westbrook), James Harden should win his first MVP award decisively.

Harden is Houston’s heartbeat; he makes the team’s innovative system not only function but flourish. The 28-year-old guard is having one of the most efficient high-volume scoring seasons in NBA history, averaging 30.6 points with a 62 true shooting percentage and a 54.1 effective field goal percentage. Toss in his 8.7 assists per game and he enters the stratosphere of the greatest offensive seasons in history; Michael Jordan is the only other player to drop 30 and eight with true shooting greater than 60 percent.

Harden’s scoring excellence is nothing new. He has always possessed a diverse skill set that allows him to create his own shots off pick-and-rolls and isolations or score off handoffs and screens. But this season was different for Harden. The addition of Chris Paul gave the Rockets a second Hall of Fame–caliber point guard, a fantasy come to life for Mike D’Antoni and his offensive system, which is known for its high doses of pick-and-roll. Defenses today switch on-ball screens to force offenses into stagnant situations. Shot creation is a necessity, and no one is better than Harden at scoring in isolations.

Harden scores 1.22 points per isolation possession, which is the highest recorded by a player with a minimum of 100 logged possessions since Synergy Sports began tracking data in the 2004-05 season. No one has even come close to scoring on isolations with such success at such a high frequency. Of the 35 individual seasons a player logged at least 500 isolation possessions—which includes multiple seasons by LeBron James and Kobe Bryant—the average player besides Harden this year scored 0.95 points per possession. But Harden’s 1.22 is better than any *team* has scored in *transition* during the past four seasons, per Synergy. Harden has also scored more total isolation points (868) than any other team this season (the Cavaliers are next closest with 801).

That doesn’t seem possible.

It’s an especially remarkable feat considering the iso has rightfully earned a reputation as an inefficient, ball-stopping play that sucks the life out of a team. But the Rockets have turned it into an advantage by building a system that enhances Harden’s ability to get layups, draw fouls, and shoot 3s off of isolations. They space the floor with either five shooters or with four shooters and a lob threat in Clint Capela, and they run an offense that can look more like a one-on-one at Rucker Park than a five-on-five in an NBA arena. It’s easier said than done to find the correct ingredients to make their homemade dynamite, but D’Antoni and Rockets general manager Daryl Morey have put together a winning blueprint that future teams can try to follow.

The problem is it’s near-impossible to find a player as special as Harden. He is elite at all the things that make isolation scorers great—shaking and baking defenders, getting into the paint like Jordan and LeBron, dancing and spinning from midrange like Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady, pulling up from outer space like Curry. What we haven’t seen is a player step back to 3-point land like Harden has this season. Harden has more makes (79) and takes (176) on step-back 3-pointers than any team in the NBA; the next closest teams are Portland (45 makes) and Denver (122 takes). No team is featuring those shots in its arsenal, while Harden is hitting them at a 44.9 percent clip.

D’Antoni gives Harden the green light regardless of the situation, because Harden can score no matter what look defenses give him. If they back off him, he pulls up. If they crowd him, he blows by them. If they stop his drive, he steps back. If he’s covered, he’ll kick the ball out to a shooter or lob it to a big. Harden’s volume, proficiency, and degree of difficulty, combined with his ability to make plays for his teammates and play off-ball alongside Paul, is truly hard to fathom. Harden is unguardable.

Another big part of Harden’s scoring efficiency is his ability to get to the free throw line. Harden has drawn 140 fouls on 1,213 drives to the rim this season, per Second Spectrum. Only one other player (DeRozan) has logged more than 100. Harden tricks referees into blowing the whistle with Oscar-worthy performances on his drives to the rim, swinging his arms into his defender’s side like he’s a wide receiver jostling with a cornerback. Many fans understandably get annoyed by Harden’s habits. Watching free throws isn’t fun. But until it’s outlawed or referees make it a point of emphasis, it’s hard to knock a guy for bending the rules to help his team. Not to mention, of the 45 players to shoot at least 250 times on drives, Harden ranks fourth in field goal percentage. He’s elite even without a whistle. But there’s an art to drawing fouls, and he’s simply better at it than anyone else—even if it can be frustrating to watch.

While Harden has rightfully been knocked in the past for providing as much resistance on defense as unlocked saloon doors, he’s been more reliable on that end this season as part of Houston’s improved defensive culture. Harden isn’t the reason the Rockets have the seventh-ranked defensive rating, but they’ve used him against multiple positions, depending on the matchup. He’s been asked to battle against big forwards, fight on the defensive boards, and slide his feet against quick guards, and he’s generally done a solid job. He’s allowing less than 0.8 points per possession against isolations and post-ups, is snatching 4.9 defensive rebounds per game, and ranks in the top 25 for both deflections and loose balls recovered. Harden isn’t a defensive stopper, but he’s no longer a liability.

The Rockets are the best team in the NBA and have one of the top offenses in history and an elite defense. Harden is their best player, and he’s having one of the greatest scoring seasons in history. The MVP debate was fun over the course of the season, but it really was never close.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/4/9/17213702/james-harden-mvp-all-nba

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Apr-09-18 03:00 PM

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116. "shit's been over. dunno why anybody's wasting breath arguing otherwise."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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ThaTruth
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Mon Apr-09-18 03:44 PM

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117. "y'all know I don't normally cape for Bron like that..."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          


>Harden is Houston’s heartbeat; he makes the team’s
>innovative system not only function but flourish. The
>28-year-old guard is having one of the most efficient
>high-volume scoring seasons in NBA history, averaging 30.6
>points with a 62 true shooting percentage and a 54.1 effective
>field goal percentage. Toss in his 8.7 assists per game and he
>enters the stratosphere of the greatest offensive seasons in
>history; Michael Jordan is the only other player to drop 30
>and eight with true shooting greater than 60 percent.

but if you're going to try to go the "advanced stats" route Lebron scores almost as much as Harden with a higher true shooting and effective field goal percentage. While also averaging more rebounds and assists. Then there's defense.

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Apr-09-18 04:20 PM

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119. "aren't u one of the ppl who was decrying "changing the criteria" for MVP"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

in previous seasons? anyone other than Harden winning MVP this season would more than just change the criteria, it would obliterate it.


>but if you're going to try to go the "advanced stats" route
>Lebron scores almost as much as Harden with a higher true
>shooting and effective field goal percentage. While also
>averaging more rebounds and assists. Then there's defense.

their TS% is virtually identical. and Harden has a higher PER, WS, + WS/48 (leading the NBA in those 3). And Lebron didn't play defense for half the season.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Dstl1
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Mon Apr-09-18 04:32 PM

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120. "and Harden hasn't started yet..."
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

*toots bow-tie horn* I'll be here all week, folks...tip your waiter!!!

And Lebron
>didn't play defense for half the season.
>

...I wipe my feet on your CD covers like welcome mats. Bienvenidos...How bout that? (c)Ab Soul

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10854 posts
Mon Apr-09-18 05:46 PM

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121. "They really went out of their way here..."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

>>Harden is Houston’s heartbeat; he makes the team’s
>>innovative system not only function but flourish. The
>>28-year-old guard is having one of the most efficient
>>high-volume scoring seasons in NBA history, averaging 30.6
>>points with a 62 true shooting percentage and a 54.1
>effective
>>field goal percentage. Toss in his 8.7 assists per game and
>he
>>enters the stratosphere of the greatest offensive seasons in
>>history; Michael Jordan is the only other player to drop 30
>>and eight with true shooting greater than 60 percent.

LeBron's 09-10 MVP Season:

True shooting: .604
Assists per game: 8.6
Points per game: 29.7

So basically it's .3 on his scoring average that kept him off this list that never existed before this article was written.

Now if we consider pace of play in 2009-2010, when 18 points over the course of the season was the difference:

League Average FGA per game: 81.7
League Average Points per game: 100.4

Meanwhile in 17-18

League Average FGA per game: 86
League Average Points per game: 106.4

Scoring .9 points less a night in a league in which teams take 4-5 more shots a night and score 6 more points, means that the difference is negligible. Also throw in the fact that 09-10 Bron turned the ball over one less time per game. This is not to say that Harden isn't having a great or historic season, just that this is a weird way to go about it.

Just for fun we'll throw in Jordan's 88-89 that was mentioned:

A/G: 8.0
PPG: 32.5
TS: .614%

League Average FGA per game: 87.2
League Average Points per game: 107

A comparable scoring environment and pace to this year (albeit with more three point shots than ever before)

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Apr-10-18 07:21 AM

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125. "adjusting for pace:"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

harden is doing 42.4 points and 12.1 assists per 100 possessions on 62% pure shooting.

here's that list: http://bkref.com/tiny/DPXzI

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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ThaTruth
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Tue Apr-10-18 08:27 AM

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126. "do you know how many random lists we could make up that Lebron..."
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

would be the only one on? c'mon dude lol

"June 16th, 1971, Mama gave birth to a hell-raisin' heavenly son..."

2014 DAMALI Football Pool Champion

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Apr-10-18 09:12 AM

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128. "never said otherwise."
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

dude specifically mentioned pace inflation, wrt harden's 2018 ppg/apg averages.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10854 posts
Tue Apr-10-18 10:44 AM

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129. "That's a better stat to me"
In response to Reply # 128
Tue Apr-10-18 10:44 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

Again though, my main point is that whenever I make a list like that, I always like to peek beyond my end points to make sure I'm not arbtitralily excluding someone within the spirit of the list. I don't know if the writer did that here or just did some random numbers and moved on.

Harden's year really does profile pretty closely to LeBron's 09-10 season, in which he cruised to his second MVP. Extending the parameters of the list you posted puts those years side by side in a more neutralized context: http://bkref.com/tiny/HHmw7

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
42311 posts
Tue Apr-10-18 01:01 PM

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132. "Harden has his team #1 in the league"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
51797 posts
Mon Apr-09-18 03:53 PM

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118. "Oh, it's Harden. Just weird how much better Lebron is as a player. "
In response to Reply # 115


  

          


It's just kinda weird how much better Lebron is than
everyone else in the league. That's sorta been the case,
but it's particularly jarring this year.

That said, it's been Harden's MVP.

  

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Castro
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Tue Apr-10-18 06:28 AM

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124. "This is basically like the year Barkley won the MVP."
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Barkley deserved it, but Jordan was Jordan.

------------------
One Hundred.

  

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Vex_id
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Tue Apr-10-18 08:34 AM

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127. "you had Bron at about what - 6-8 in the MVP race?"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          


-->

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Apr-10-18 12:09 PM

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130. "wasn't that back in November? you still mad about that?"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Apr-10-18 12:47 PM

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131. "it was november of LAST season."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

and i had lebron 4th. and said that he was pacing himself and would ratchet it up post-all-star and prolly end up 2nd on my final ballot. which is exactly what happened.

he's also 2nd on my ballot this season.

dude is weird.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Apr-10-18 01:29 PM

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133. "LOL! I searched for that post but couldn't find it, now I know why."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

>and i had lebron 4th. and said that he was pacing himself and
>would ratchet it up post-all-star and prolly end up 2nd on my
>final ballot. which is exactly what happened.
>
>he's also 2nd on my ballot this season.
>
>dude is weird.

dude be eating soft-boiled ostrich eggs while he posts.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Vex_id
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Tue Apr-10-18 01:36 PM

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134. "it was actually at the beginning of this year"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

but you did the same thing last year. You had like 7 or 8 guys ahead of him in your forecast. You were dumb wrong. Why do I bring it up? Because it's fun seeing the self-proclaimed objective fans here try to mask their negative bron bias.

Can't wait to see your projections for next year.


-->

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Tue Apr-10-18 02:15 PM

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135. "this is an complete lie."
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

>You had like 7 or 8 guys ahead of him in your forecast.

produce a receipt or stfu.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Apr-11-18 09:29 AM

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137. "the receipts are stacked up on the counter"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

I'm not going to sift through the boards to find every instance you've made your Chris Mannix hot takes devaluing Lebron James. But just look in this post. Only *a month* ago you implied that Bron was basically sitting at the 5 spot - saying it was Harden or AD and that Steph and KD would split votes, and just dismissing the notion that Bron was having a great year by saying "february made it irreparable in the eyes of voters' lol - so imagine what type of shit you were talking in November.

You've constantly had AD, Harden, Steph, KD, Giannis, Russ ahead of LeBron in your MVP forecasts.

Own it and stfu.

-->

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21590 posts
Wed Apr-11-18 12:13 PM

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139. "lulz"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

who mans is this.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Apr-11-18 12:55 PM

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140. "fitting that there are 2 L's in 'lulz'"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNcOYqivuw8

-->

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Thu Apr-12-18 01:27 AM

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145. "Vex, I know your schtick but you're flat out lying here"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

cut bait and KIM

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17152 posts
Mon Apr-09-18 06:25 PM

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122. "RE: Who should, and who will, win NBA MVP this year?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/pharoahemonch/status/983477654669185024

_____________
Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
27857 posts
Tue Apr-10-18 01:34 AM

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123. "Harden will win it but Bron got his team to 50 wins and a division title"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

That's 50 wins with that old ass roster from opening night.

That's 50 wins with a damn near new team after the IT trade.

That's 50 wins with a coach that left for health reasons through no fault of his own.

I'm just happy we made the playoffs but Bron deserves it after everything he's gone through this season.

I could come in here with stats and analysis but fuck all that (c) Stugotz

  

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Rjcc
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Wed Apr-11-18 12:48 AM

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136. "It should be the LeBron James MVP Award for Individual Greatness"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and Harden should receive it this year.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Apr-11-18 11:08 AM

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138. "The First Annual LeBron James Award for Outstanding Achievement "
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

in the Field of Excellence

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Wed Apr-11-18 06:34 PM

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141. "Z-LO DA GAWD:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://es.pn/2v6mb0i

1. James Harden
2. LeBron James
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. The box score from Phoenix-Dallas on Tuesday

(Just kidding -- Damian Lillard)

James and Harden are neck-and-neck in almost every metric. The Cavs have outscored opponents by six points per 100 possessions with LeBron on the floor since Cleveland upended its team at the trade deadline, reversing a weird early-season minitrend that had them playing at the same sad level regardless -- a trend unfit for the king.

LeBron since that deadline orgy has been the league's best player. It was enough to surpass Davis and Antetokounmpo. He is going to play all 82 games and lead the league in minutes for a defense-less traveling soap opera that would sink into the lottery if you replaced him with a league-average small forward. His clutch numbers are something out of "NBA Jam." Kevin Love, Cleveland's second-best player by a comically wide margin in the wake of the Kyrie Irving debacle, missed almost exactly the same number of games as Houston's second-best player, Chris Paul. And Paul is better than Love.

If given a choice between game-planning for Harden or James in a seven-game series, 30 out of 30 teams would pick Harden within five seconds of being posed the question.

But what happened before those two months, in Houston and Cleveland, matters at least as much as what came after. Harden and the Rockets played so well as to render their last 15 games of the regular season irrelevant.

Meanwhile, the Cavs collapsed amid infighting and embarrassingly listless play. LeBron in January could have galvanized his -- very much his -- dispirited team. Instead, he stewed in what almost amounted to a monthlong, on-court passive-aggressive rebellion.

We've seen Chill Mode LeBron. This was different. LeBron at times stood still instead of rotating on defense. He occasionally decided not to close out on shooters. During Cleveland's nadir, a couple of shooters caught the ball behind the arc, looked at LeBron as if expecting him to rush out, realized he had no plans to move, shrugged, and fired. Almost every other Cav played with the same sloth. It was, frankly, astonishing.

An MVP galvanizes. He lifts teams up and out of funks. LeBron didn't, or couldn't. There are people within the league who would use that midseason floundering to prop up LeBron's MVP case. They would frame it as part of some Machiavellian plot: LeBron realizing before his front office that Cleveland needed a shakeup, and scheming to make it happen in the only way he could, given his poisonous, reportedly nonverbal relationship with owner Dan Gilbert.

That is a bridge too far, even if the new Cavs are better than their broken, discarded predecessors.

Harden may not be a galvanizer, either. He let his relationship with Dwight Howard a couple of years ago disintegrate amid silence and unmade passes. He wilted facing elimination last season. That is part of the reason Houston added some fire in Paul. There will be a crisis moment in the playoffs when the Rockets need Harden to galvanize them.

But they haven't needed much of it in blitzing through this regular season, and that is the period voters consider. Houston has been the league's best team wire-to-wire, and Harden its best player. He just wrapped the greatest season of isolation basketball in league history, acting as battering ram in Houston's blunt force attack: pick-and-roll, switch, back it out, fatality.

Harden's step-back 3-pointer and shoulder-checking drives have long obscured his brilliance as a passer. Harden's style can bore, but there are few NBA moments more exciting than those eye-of-the-storm seconds in which Harden digests a switch and slides two steps back with a live dribble. His eyes dart side-to-side, the entire game in his hands.

If that defender on Eric Gordon so much as leans toward the paint in preemptive help, the ball is out of Harden's hands -- flying toward Gordon's fingertips while that poor defender tries too late to reverse his momentum. His pocket passes to Clint Capela, lobbed high over reaching arms or skipped low, like rocks on a pond, to skitter underneath them, are among the league's most gorgeous -- and earliest, tossed with pitch-perfect timing.

Harden is an offense unto himself. He is never going to be a plus defender. Even a disengaged LeBron, outside those outlier winter weeks of discontent, is a more impactful defender simply through the power of reputation and size. People fear the sudden appearance of dialed-in LeBron. They avoid him.

They will never avoid Harden. But Harden has cleaned up his defense. The comatose, meme-worthy blunders are largely gone. Houston has helped by surrounding him with plus defenders and giving him simple marching orders: switch everything.

Opponents have shot just 37.5 percent against Harden on post-ups, one of the league's stingiest marks, and he has poked away a ton of steals. He jostles for rebounds. When he snags them, he is lethal in flight against a defense discombobulated by Houston's switches.

Bottom line: This is Harden's year. Given equal statistical profiles, it is hard to reward an alpha player (LeBron) whose team -- the fourth seed entering Wednesday in the junior varsity conference -- is beset by constant, season-threatening melodrama.

Davis has been otherworldly carrying a preposterous two-way load for an injury-riddled team assembled by years of random, unconnected transactions. Antetokounmpo faded a hair down the stretch as the Bucks faded toward the bottom of the East. A lot of voters will leave him off the ballot as punishment.

I can't get there. I have long been open to a player on a 45-ish win team crashing the MVP conversation; the word "valuable" begs voters to consider team context that way, and last season's MVP, Russell Westbrook, came from a 47-win team. Michael Jordan spoiled us into thinking that a top-five player should win 55 games every season. It doesn't work that way. It's possible for the league's second- or third-best player -- and maybe its very best one -- to toil on a middling playoff team. The Cavs are a middling playoff team now, barely eking 50 wins, and LeBron will get a chunk of first-place votes.

The Bucks have been a trash fire all season whenever Antetokounmpo sits. He averaged 27 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists per game, while working as the league's best perimeter defender. He belongs.

The last spot came down to Lillard, Kevin Durant, Westbrook, LaMarcus Aldridge, the Toronto guards, and Nikola Jokic, keeping Denver alive to the last moment. (Kyrie Irving, Stephen Curry, Chris Paul and Jimmy Butler missed a few too many games.) I'd be fine with almost any of them. Durant is the best of those players, and was my initial choice -- a well-rounded superstar who will log almost 70 games for the championship co-favorite.

But Golden State is 7-10 in its past 17 games, lost without Curry, now behind Toronto in the overall standings. Portland is slumping too, but Lillard dragged them to a winner-take-all showdown with Utah on Wednesday for the No. 3 seed. Portland has been toast all season when Lillard sits. He is their lifeline, and he snags the last spot here.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Vex_id
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Wed Apr-11-18 07:31 PM

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142. "Lowe: James and Harden are neck-and-neck in almost every metric"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Or as some here like to say: "Harden in a landslide"

-->

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Apr-12-18 02:16 PM

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146. "if bron's team won league-best 65 games & harden's was a 50 win 4th seed"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

it would be Lebron in a landslide. but, it's the other way around.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Apr-12-18 02:20 PM

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147. "How were the Rockets without Chris Paul, tho? : - ( "
In response to Reply # 146


  

          


This is why it can't be a landslide.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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ShawndmeSlanted
Member since Oct 30th 2004
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Thu Apr-12-18 02:40 PM

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148. "but it is"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

and it doesnt matter what we want to debate on here. And what sources whoever wants to put in this post.

Harden will win it this year.

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Apr-12-18 03:20 PM

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149. "Oh, I'm down with Team Harden. Here's what I'm saying:"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

>and it doesnt matter what we want to debate on here. And what
>sources whoever wants to put in this post.
>
>Harden will win it this year.

There's no *basketball* argument that he should win
over Lebron by any significant margin, or at all. MVP
is really just Lebron fatigue, like it's been for many
many years.

Lebron is better than Harden. And the Rockets weren't
nearly as good without Chris Paul (one of the 5 best
point guards ever). And so for all his value, Harden's
team wasn't that great when the 2nd best player wasn't
there.

I think Harden deserves it because....I just want him
to win one. And Lebron kind of has enough of them, I guess?

I dunno. My Harden reasons aren't very good, and neither
are anyone else's. That's sort of my point: let's stop
acting like the arguments are airtight. They aren't.
We might just want Harden to win because we want him to
win.

And that's okay.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Vex_id
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153. "^^"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

I've been advocating for Harden this year because he has been out of this world and the Rockets have been great - but he's really not the Most Valuable Player in the league. LeBron is - but the award has been more of a team-oriented award as of late. I'm fine w/ Harden getting it - but as you said - the Lebron fatigue is real.

>>Harden will win it this year.
>
>There's no *basketball* argument that he should win
>over Lebron by any significant margin, or at all. MVP
>is really just Lebron fatigue, like it's been for many
>many years.
>
>Lebron is better than Harden. And the Rockets weren't
>nearly as good without Chris Paul (one of the 5 best
>point guards ever). And so for all his value, Harden's
>team wasn't that great when the 2nd best player wasn't
>there.
>
>I think Harden deserves it because....I just want him
>to win one. And Lebron kind of has enough of them, I guess?
>
>I dunno. My Harden reasons aren't very good, and neither
>are anyone else's. That's sort of my point: let's stop
>acting like the arguments are airtight. They aren't.
>We might just want Harden to win because we want him to
>win.
>
>And that's okay.
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "


-->

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Apr-13-18 11:54 AM

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155. "and by "as of late", you mean the last 60 years?"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

>- but the award has been more of a team-oriented award as of
>late. I'm fine w/ Harden getting it - but as you said - the
>Lebron fatigue is real.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Apr-13-18 12:44 PM

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157. "Lebron fatigue isn't 60 years old. "
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

>>- but the award has been more of a team-oriented award as
>of
>>late. I'm fine w/ Harden getting it - but as you said - the
>>Lebron fatigue is real.

Lebron-fatigue is recent.

We are just tired of him being the best player, want
to acknowledge other players, and look for random
reasons to do so. And that is okay.

I just wish we'd admit it.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 20th 2005
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Fri Apr-13-18 12:52 PM

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159. "It has rarely been the best player award"
In response to Reply # 157


          


Otherwise Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, and yes Bron would
all have more.

I’m sure there are older examples too.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Apr-13-18 12:57 PM

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160. "Yeah, it's also not the most "valuable" player either. "
In response to Reply # 159


  

          


The criteria are made up to fit whatever person
we feel like giving it to that year.

>Otherwise Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, and yes Bron would
>all have more.

Actually, Kobe wasn't really been the head-and-shoulders
best player in the league for more than one or two years,
at most. His prime overlapped with Duncan, and
Lebron was a better player than Kobe from pretty early
in Lebron's career.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 20th 2005
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Fri Apr-13-18 01:05 PM

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162. "K"
In response to Reply # 160


          


But you and Vex are acting like this a new debate.

It isn’t.

Most years it’s the story. See Harden, Russ, Rose,
Nash, Malone, Barkley, etc.

If isn’t the best player, or the most valuable consistently.

So take Kobe of the list, that isn’t really important.

If it was truly best player and/or MV each year Bron would
have more no doubt.

But he isn’t alone. This isn’t a new debate.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Apr-13-18 01:53 PM

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163. "LOL. No, we're making a basic point: MVP = Lebron fatigue award"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          


If someone not named Lebron James has a year like
Lebron James did this year, they are winning the
award. He's far, far better basketball player than
Russy was last year. And he's better than Harden
this year.

And the Rockets have proven to be quite fine without
Harden, which is supposed to be the definition of
"valuable." In fact, this was the main pro-Nash argument
back when he won back-to-back: Suns were ass cheeks
when Nash sat out. Rockets, on the other hand, have
been meh without Chris Paul.

So again: we're just tired of Lebron James being ungodly
and so are shape-shifting and making shit up in order
to not give him the ward.

It's all good. Wish we just admitted it.

It's sort of a compliment to Lebron, if anything.

MVP trophy has become a "Smh...here this dude go,
being the best again. Who can we shape-shift and
change the criteria for?"


>But you and Vex are acting like this a new debate.
>
>It isn’t.
>
>Most years it’s the story. See Harden, Russ, Rose,
>Nash, Malone, Barkley, etc.
>
>If isn’t the best player, or the most valuable consistently.
>
>
>So take Kobe of the list, that isn’t really important.
>
>If it was truly best player and/or MV each year Bron would
>have more no doubt.
>
>But he isn’t alone. This isn’t a new debate.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
7159 posts
Fri Apr-13-18 08:12 PM

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169. "That's bullshit...Harden wins according to traditional criteria"
In response to Reply # 163


          

If two players have very comparable stats and one of them won 15 more games in a tougher conference, the traditional MVP choice is almost always the one on the better team.

Personally I might vote for LeBron this year. Insanely impressed by his 2nd half. But I don't subscribe to the traditional "best player on one of the best few teams in the league" criteria -- to which there have been almost no exceptions (Russ one of the very very few, and he achieved a long-mythical, considered-near-impossible statistical feat).

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sat Apr-14-18 09:20 AM

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171. "What "traditional" criteria? So, not the criteria from like, last year? "
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

>If two players have very comparable stats and one of them won
>15 more games in a tougher conference, the traditional MVP
>choice is almost always the one on the better team.

Except when that doesn't happen, which it hasn't, many
times.

>Personally I might vote for LeBron this year. Insanely
>impressed by his 2nd half. But I don't subscribe to the
>traditional "best player on one of the best few teams in the
>league" criteria -- to which there have been almost no
>exceptions (Russ one of the very very few, and he achieved a
>long-mythical, considered-near-impossible statistical feat).

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Apr-19-18 12:45 PM

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182. ""traditional criteria" means: a.) Not LeBron; b.) Someone New"
In response to Reply # 171
Thu Apr-19-18 12:46 PM by Vex_id

  

          

c.) Just give it to the best player on the team w/ the best record.

Neither are particularly compelling reasons.

Not that Harden doesn't deserve the award - he does. Bron does, too.
-->

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Apr-19-18 12:53 PM

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185. "Exactamundo. "Not Lebron" IS one of the top MVP criteria. "
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

>c.) Just give it to the best player on the team w/ the best
>record.
>
>Neither are particularly compelling reasons.
>
>Not that Harden doesn't deserve the award - he does. Bron
>does, too.

People fighting it just because, though


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 20th 2005
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Fri Apr-13-18 01:00 PM

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161. "Honest question "
In response to Reply # 153


          


How old are you?

You talk like you have only paid attention to the
league for 10 years.

Plenty of best players in the league have not gotten
the MVP award.

Do you really think Nash was the best player? Malone?
David Robinson?


This issue is not new and certainly not unique to
Bron.

  

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Vex_id
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164. "RE: Honest question "
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

Old enough to have watched Jordan's dominance as a kid. Been an avid NBA fan since the 90's.

Obviously the best player doesn't always win the MVP award - but my argument for Bron being neck & neck w/ Harden this year is not simply because he's the best player in the game (which he is). Rather, it's because of the extraordinary season he's had that is just strikingly anomalous in so many ways. To have played in all 82 games and led a vagabond team that switched identities (and core lineups) 3 times in a season - yet to still finish at the same pace as last year - is just astonishing. LeBron's season has been super special even for his standards. I think his argument is as compelling as Harden's for sure.

In contrast - last year LeBron was great and still was the best player in the game - but there wasn't a compelling reason to give him the MVP award like there is this year.


-->

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
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Fri Apr-13-18 01:59 PM

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165. "save the keystrokes."
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

you can scream it a million times

LEBRON IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE
THE MVP IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE AWARD AND NEVER HAS BEEN
THIS DIDN'T START WITH LEBRON

and they'll still never accept it.

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Apr-13-18 04:18 PM

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167. "EXACTLY. We change the criteria to not give it Lebron, every year. "
In response to Reply # 165


  

          


What was the criteria last year? Arbitrary stuff about
a triple double. An "effort" award? What was it, exactly?

What is the criteria this year? Best player on best team?
Why wasn't that the criteria Russy's year?

It it about "value?" It's already been established that
Houston is actually kinda okay without Harden, and extremely
"meh" without Paul. So using the Steve Nash criteria, Harden
kinda isn't the MVP.

We just shape shift and make shit up.

As long as the criteria doesn't include Lebron James, we're
good.

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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Fri Apr-13-18 08:13 PM

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170. ""Best player on one of the few best teams" has always been the criteria"
In response to Reply # 167


          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Sat Apr-14-18 09:21 AM

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172. "Right, except when it's not. LOL. Like, last year. "
In response to Reply # 170


  

          


Again: you change the criteria.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Thu Apr-12-18 11:50 PM

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150. "Better than the Cavs were with Lebron : - )"
In response to Reply # 147
Thu Apr-12-18 11:50 PM by 40thStreetBlack

  

          

^^^ turned that frown upside down


that's why it can and will be.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Apr-13-18 01:53 AM

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151. "Houston WITHOUT Harden was pretty damn good too : - ( "
In response to Reply # 150


  

          


Damn.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/04/15/rockets-without-harden-are-just-as-good-as-the-thunder-with-westbrook/


Why you don't like Lebron, 40? You're usually a level headed
nigga. Just cuz you don't like Vex? Vex a really nice dude, man.

- OE

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Apr-13-18 11:25 AM

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154. "That was from last season ;-)"
In response to Reply # 151


  

          

It's not about not liking Lebron. Lebron is phenomenal. He's the best player in the league. But Harden is the MVP this year. That's just how the award works.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Orbit_Established
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Fri Apr-13-18 12:43 PM

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156. "I know, that makes it even worse : - ( "
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

>It's not about not liking Lebron. Lebron is phenomenal. He's
>the best player in the league. But Harden is the MVP this
>year. That's just how the award works.

Right, but it ain't a "landslide."

People just need to admit, as I have, that we're
just making shit up as we go along. We just don't
want to give it to Lebron because we have Lebron
greatness fatigue.

And that's okay. Wish we'd admit it.

  

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Vex_id
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Fri Apr-13-18 08:30 AM

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152. "Why did Russ win it last year? His team didn't have the best record"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

The award isn't as simple as y'all make it out to be - unless of course it suits your argument anti-Bron bias - then sure - just give it to the guy w/ the better record.

-->

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Apr-13-18 12:46 PM

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158. "And Russy wasn't nearly as good a player last yr as Lebron this yr "
In response to Reply # 152


  

          


We just make shit up, make up reasons to not give Lebron
the award.

It's comedy.

And I'm basically alright with it, just wish we'd
admit it.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Fri Apr-13-18 02:57 PM

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166. "the same reason you said Lebron should've won Finals MVP last year"
In response to Reply # 152
Fri Apr-13-18 03:18 PM by 40thStreetBlack

  

          

also different circumstances - the team with the best record didn't have a standout MVP candidate. this really isn't that difficult.

>The award isn't as simple as y'all make it out to be -

it is this year.

>unless
>of course it suits your argument anti-Bron bias - then sure -
>just give it to the guy w/ the better record.

it suits my anti dumb vex argument bias.

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Fri Apr-13-18 04:20 PM

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168. "Uh. No, that argument was because Lebron was the best player. "
In response to Reply # 166


  

          


Russy was not the best player.

>also different circumstances - the team with the best record
>didn't have a standout MVP candidate. this really isn't that
>difficult.

Lolz

Let's just admit that we're shape-shifting to not give
it to Lebron. I'm FINE with that. But let's stop pretending
our criteria are actually criteria. They aren't.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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HecticHavoc
Member since May 13th 2005
6776 posts
Wed Apr-11-18 08:10 PM

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143. "this is like the Nash year. Harden will get it, "but...""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Nash deserved the trophy, and Harden will win in the same fashion (team has best record, and offensively the best player).

Lebron is playing better tho. he should win, but Harden is going to Nash him.

-----------------------------------------

  

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LA2Philly
Member since Oct 18th 2004
40842 posts
Thu Apr-12-18 01:24 AM

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144. "Russy averaged a triple double, give it to him again"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Lol sike, he shouldn't have gotten it last year either. Should have been Harden last year and toss-up between Harden/Bron this year.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Apr-19-18 09:38 AM

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173. "must be nice to go 2-18 from the field and still win by 20"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

MVT (Most Valuable Team)

-->

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2135 posts
Thu Apr-19-18 10:27 AM

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174. "Must be nice to only post after your guy wins one"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

Against the mighty Indiana Pacers. Which they barely won.

Anyway, maybe you'll get lucky and he'll be here next year. Or maybe you can appreciate how great LeBron is without forgetting that he has been part of a 29th-best defense all year and that maybe all those Ls (and man, there sure ere a lot, huh?) had something, SOMETHING, to do with his aloof ass.

Aight, back to cheering for a guy who actually might win a title this year rather than one trying to establish the narrative for a Rnd. 2 L to the Toronto fucking Raptors.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
51797 posts
Thu Apr-19-18 10:55 AM

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175. "Lebron is "aloof?" LMAO. I've officially seen it all. "
In response to Reply # 174


  

          



>Anyway, maybe you'll get lucky and he'll be here next year. Or
>maybe you can appreciate how great LeBron is without
>forgetting that he has been part of a 29th-best defense all
>year and that maybe all those Ls (and man, there sure ere a
>lot, huh?) had something, SOMETHING, to do with his aloof
>ass.

Lebron James is having, by every single possible statistical
measure, among the finest individual seasons in league
history (up there with several of his others).

But he's "aloof" on OKS.

LMAO.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2135 posts
Thu Apr-19-18 11:17 AM

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177. "Certainly not by any statistical measure that takes defense"
In response to Reply # 175


  

          

into account. I'm sure it's easy to pile up all those stats when you don't have to expend any effort on the other end.

(Man, all these old anti-Harden arguments really do come in handy. Shit. I love it.)

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Apr-19-18 12:49 PM

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183. "LMAO. Most advanced stats take it all into account, idiot. "
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

>into account. I'm sure it's easy to pile up all those stats
>when you don't have to expend any effort on the other end.
>
>(Man, all these old anti-Harden arguments really do come in
>handy. Shit. I love it.)

Yikes. '

You're not the brightest crayon in the box, are you?

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
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Thu Apr-19-18 01:55 PM

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188. "Please, tell me about which advanced stats take defense into account"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

Something other than RPM, which you don't know the formula for and which Bron ranks 15th in. Is adding up block and steals enough for you? If it is, Bron ranks second this year in most of those stats too.

I'm more than welcome to being enlightened.

But you'll probably just make some weird comment about how often I take baths here.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Apr-19-18 02:41 PM

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191. "No, you're actually just not very bright. "
In response to Reply # 188
Thu Apr-19-18 02:45 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          

That's the issue here, and it's okay.

>Something other than RPM, which you don't know the formula
>for and which Bron ranks 15th in. Is adding up block and
>steals enough for you? If it is, Bron ranks second this year
>in most of those stats too.

There are plenty of advanced stats that are about
a players' OVERALL presence, and not simply their
offensive contribution. These, by definition, include
their presence on defense.

But if we DID use defensive box +/-, Lebron was higher
than Harden. LOL. (ouch)



>I'm more than welcome to being enlightened.

Let's hope that this is true.




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2135 posts
Thu Apr-19-18 05:39 PM

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192. "I have lots of stats, the best stats"
In response to Reply # 191


  

          


  

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Vex_id
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Thu Apr-19-18 01:27 PM

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186. "statistical measures like "aloof" ?"
In response to Reply # 177


  

          


-->

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
28413 posts
Thu Apr-19-18 11:10 AM

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176. "of course you don't think Beard deserves it lol"
In response to Reply # 173


  

          

good lord

_______________________________________________

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Apr-19-18 11:29 AM

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178. "nah I've said that Beard deserves it."
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

It's just that Bron probably deserves it more when you factor in the totality of work he's had to put in to keep the Cavs afloat. Harden can just go out there and be great in a great team-system. Bron has to carry the cross for a whole fleet of under-achieving talent.

It's just different.
-->

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2135 posts
Thu Apr-19-18 11:32 AM

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179. "Yeah, like he was great in a team system last year"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

And won 55 games. While Bron won fewer. Again. And got to the Finals! (In the East.)

Was it about team success last year? Or playoff success? Not this year, though? These scales just sliding all over the place, I gotta ask.

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Apr-19-18 11:39 AM

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180. "RE: Yeah, like he was great in a team system last year"
In response to Reply # 179
Thu Apr-19-18 11:41 AM by Vex_id

  

          

>And won 55 games.

Oh - he had CP3 last year?

While Bron won fewer. Again. And got to the
>Finals! (In the East.)

Bron does more w/ less.

>Was it about team success last year? Or playoff success? Not
>this year, though? These scales just sliding all over the
>place, I gotta ask.

Well I never made the argument that Bron deserved the MVP last year. But this year is a different story. Harden missed 10 games? Bron has been workmanlike all year - playing in every single big moment, winning a division title, matching last year's win totals with far less and a lineup that has morphed 3 times w/ a whole new core. He has shot the long-ball better than Curry & Durant -- let that sink in - while shooting from the field w/ Shaq/Kareem like efficiency. And that doesn't even factor in his elite passing and facilitating. He def picks his spot on defense is not the elite 2-year player he was earlier in his career - but it's not like Beard is an all-NBA defensive player, either.

He just has done more w/ less. I'm happy w/ Beard getting the MVP - but people who say Bron is not on-par with what Beard is doing aren't looking at this objectively - they are just doing a win-count.

-->

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Thu Apr-19-18 12:52 PM

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184. "I love Harden, but ppl acting like there are NO pro-Lebron arguments LOL"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          


It's hilarious

>>And won 55 games.
>
>Oh - he had CP3 last year?
>
> While Bron won fewer. Again. And got to the
>>Finals! (In the East.)
>
>Bron does more w/ less.
>
>>Was it about team success last year? Or playoff success? Not
>>this year, though? These scales just sliding all over the
>>place, I gotta ask.
>
>Well I never made the argument that Bron deserved the MVP last
>year. But this year is a different story. Harden missed 10
>games? Bron has been workmanlike all year - playing in every
>single big moment, winning a division title, matching last
>year's win totals with far less and a lineup that has morphed
>3 times w/ a whole new core. He has shot the long-ball better
>than Curry & Durant -- let that sink in - while shooting from
>the field w/ Shaq/Kareem like efficiency. And that doesn't
>even factor in his elite passing and facilitating. He def
>picks his spot on defense is not the elite 2-year player he
>was earlier in his career - but it's not like Beard is an
>all-NBA defensive player, either.
>
>He just has done more w/ less. I'm happy w/ Beard getting the
>MVP - but people who say Bron is not on-par with what Beard is
>doing aren't looking at this objectively - they are just doing
>a win-count.
>
>-->


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Premiere
Member since Sep 02nd 2005
2135 posts
Thu Apr-19-18 01:58 PM

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189. "There are tons"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

But I and many other people think Harden had a better season this year. I don't think he has more talent or is a better player, but he had a better season. Bron had an incredible year that very well would have been superior to Harden's had Bron not taken January off.

And y'all sit here and just shit on dude's one off-shooting night and ignoring the fucking drubbing the Cavs took in Game 1 as Bron Bron watched a dude who moonlights as a lounge singer pull up and stick threes in his eye.

  

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Vex_id
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Thu Apr-19-18 02:08 PM

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190. "RE: There are tons"
In response to Reply # 189
Thu Apr-19-18 02:10 PM by Vex_id

  

          

>Bron had an incredible
>year that very well would have been superior to Harden's had
>Bron not taken January off.

So we're saying Bron "took January off" even though he played in every single game - but played like an all-star in January instead of like an all-universe every other month? Whereas Harden gets to take 10 games off (basically an entire month) and gets a pass? That's interesting.

>And y'all sit here and just shit on dude's one off-shooting
>night and ignoring the fucking drubbing the Cavs took in Game
>1 as Bron Bron watched a dude who moonlights as a lounge
>singer pull up and stick threes in his eye.

Interesting that Bron is described as not playing hard when he has a triple-double lol. I guess he's supposed to do every.single.thing on the court - unlike Harden who can just be Harden and not have to worry about doing everything because he's got a great team around him.

You reek of insecurity about Beard. Nobody in here is shitting on Beard - in fact - both OE and I are saying he deserves the award - just that Bron does, too. You? You're trying to denigrate and name-call -- calling Bron "aloof" and shitting on his season - and then trashing Oladipo? A guy who has been a legitimate star in this league who is budding as we speak?

It's ok. Bron can be playing MVP-level ball and Dipo can be playing all-star level ball without it having to threaten Beard.


-->

  

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bshelly
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Thu Apr-19-18 12:11 PM

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181. "It's Lebron"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/WINS

Unless you believe Robert Covington is the 5th best player in the league (AND HE IS), RPM isn't perfect, but it generally passes the face validity eye test better than other advanced stats, which are also a lot more mixed than the emerging narrative would have you believe.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018_leaders.html

i bring up these flawed stats because they let me talk about narrative, because the same narrative that kept bron from winning last year's mvp is going to stop this year's mvp.

writers basically decide who they will pick as mvp with a month left in the season, because they need to start writing their mvp column. if you looked at rpm, box +/- etc. with 4-6 weeks left this year, you saw a big gap between harden and bron in all of them.

the problem is, nobody closes seasons as well as lebron. we know this. we talk about how he treats the last twenty games all the time. the advanced stats show it's reality, and it has completely erased any measurable difference in the observed production.

and that's just the observed production. does anyone doubt that bron does the little things better than harden? that bron makes his teammates better in ways even the advanced stats don't pick up?

this is the exact same thing that happened with westbrook, btw. bron closed strong and pulled even, and no one cared then either.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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bnicedh
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Thu Apr-19-18 01:48 PM

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187. "I concur!"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

My initial vote was Kyrie but its Lebron!

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Jun-26-18 01:34 AM

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193. "https://cheezburger.com/5802263296/landslide"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://cheezburger.com/5802263296/landslide

<------- I'm God's lonely man

  

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dula dibiasi
Member since Apr 05th 2004
21590 posts
Tue Jun-26-18 12:32 PM

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194. "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_PQ4fRQ5Kc"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_PQ4fRQ5Kc

___

it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes

  

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