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Boogiedwn
Member since Sep 25th 2003
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Fri Jan-05-18 08:31 AM

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"Any of you believe this ESPN Patriots story?"


  

          

Nope not buying it


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle



THE PROBLEM WITH living your life under the spotlight is that the camera captures only the public eruption, not the months of silent anger. On Dec. 3, when the New England Patriots played the Buffalo Bills, Tom Brady walked to the sideline after throwing late and behind receiver Brandin Cooks on third down, ending a first-quarter drive. Brady was angrier and more irritable than usual, as has often been the case this season in the eyes of some Patriots players and staff. As he unsnapped his chinstrap, Brady passed offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels on the sideline.

"He was wide open," McDaniels said to Brady, referring to Cooks.



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Brady kept walking, and glaring at McDaniels, so the coach repeated: "We had him open."

Brady snapped, pivoting to McDaniels and yelling at him, "I got it!" Everyone within earshot, including head coach Bill Belichick, turned to watch as Brady screamed. He removed his helmet, and as a Patriots staffer held him back -- and with McDaniels' father and legendary high school coach in Ohio, Thom, in the stands behind the bench -- capped off the exchange by yelling, "F--- you!"

Video of the scene went viral, with many rationalizing it as a symptom of Brady's legendary competitiveness. Brady would later apologize to McDaniels, who dismissed the incident to reporters as "part of what makes him great." After all, many in the Patriots' building knew that Brady's explosion wasn't really about McDaniels. It wasn't about Cooks. And it wasn't about the Bills game. It was about the culmination of months of significant behind-the-scenes frustrations. For almost two decades, Belichick has managed to subvert the egos of his best player, his boss and himself for the good of the team, yielding historic results. This year, though, the dynamics have been different.

THE PATRIOTS ARE in uncharted territory. They haven't just won games and titles. They've won at an unprecedented rate and over an unprecedented span, which makes the feelings of entitlement creeping inside Gillette Stadium unprecedented as well. The Patriots, in the only statement anyone associated with the team would make on the record for this story, responded to specific questions by saying that there are "several inaccuracies and multiple examples given that absolutely did not occur," though they declined to go into detail. But according to interviews with more than a dozen New England staffers, executives, players and league sources with knowledge of the team's inner workings, the three most powerful people in the franchise -- Belichick, Brady and owner Robert Kraft -- have had serious disagreements. They differ on Brady's trainer, body coach and business partner Alex Guerrero; over the team's long-term plans at quarterback; over Belichick's bracing coaching style; and most of all, over who will be the last man standing. Those interviewed describe a palpable sense in the building that this might be the last year together for this group.

Brady, Belichick and Kraft have raised expectations and possibilities so high that virtually no other team in the Super Bowl era could truly comprehend what it's like to be them. Brady and Belichick weren't only pushing the boundaries of what a team could accomplish. They also were challenging basic understandings of how a group of high achievers escape the usual pulls of ego and pride. For 17 years, the Patriots have withstood everything the NFL and opponents could throw their way, knowing that if they were united, nobody could touch them. Now they're threatening to come undone the only way possible: from within.


Brady's body coach and business partner, Alex Guerrero, has found a spot in the quarterback's famously small group of advisers. He persuaded Brady to find the time to establish the TB12 Method.


THE CRACKS FIRST revealed themselves in early September. The season had just started, and Guerrero was once again becoming an issue in the Patriots' building, just weeks before the release of Brady's first real book, "The TB12 Method." It was more than a fitness and diet guide. For Brady, a self-described "loner" who always seemed most comfortable surrounded by family or on a football field, the book represented a move to extend his brand beyond the game -- and beyond the Patriots. Until a few years ago, he seemed uninterested in ever doing so, content to be a father and husband and son and brother and transcendent quarterback, knowing there wasn't time for much else.

Guerrero persuaded Brady to find time. The two men had worked together for years, with Guerrero having found a spot in Brady's famously small group of advisers, eventually becoming a godfather to one of his sons. Guerrero has a history of controversial methods -- in 2005, he paid a judgment to the Federal Trade Commission to settle allegations that he had claimed dietary supplements could help cure cancer -- and he believed he had discovered a way to revolutionize how athletes train. In his book and in the building, Brady was offering opinions not only on training but also on lifestyle, writing that he envisioned a world populated with TB12 Sports Therapy Center franchises.

Few in the building had a problem with Brady's method -- mostly based on stretching with bands, eating lots of vegetables, drinking lots of water, getting lots of sleep and, most of all, achieving peak "pliability." They did have a problem with what Brady and Guerrero promised the TB12 Method could do. They claimed it could absolve football of responsibility for injury: "When athletes get injured, they shouldn't blame their sport," Brady wrote. The method also was so consuming and unwavering in its rules and convictions that, while it helped some players, it felt "like a cult" to others, one Patriots staffer says. The way TB12 began to creep into Brady's life worried people close to the QB, many of whom were suspicious of Guerrero. "Tom changed," says a friend of Brady's. "That's where a lot of these problems started."

Brady and Guerrero's training beliefs introduced an unspoken pressure in the building, with players wondering where they should work out. In August, receiver Julian Edelman blew out his knee, costing him the season, and there was "hypersensitivity" among players, in the words of a Patriots coach, over who would take his place. New players felt the surest way to earn Brady's trust was to join Rob Gronkowski, Danny Amendola and others by seeking advice from Guerrero at his TB12 clinic -- and not team doctors, which Belichick preferred. Guerrero says he wasn't pressuring players to adopt his approach. "Players have always decided to come or not come on their own," he says now. But according to multiple sources, players openly discussed with Patriots coaches, staff and trusted advisers whether to follow Brady or the team, leaving them trapped: Do we risk alienating the NFL's most powerful coach or risk alienating the NFL's most powerful quarterback?

EARLY THIS SEASON, Belichick wanted to discuss all these issues with Brady.

Guerrero had been around the team for years, mostly as an unthreatening outsider who worked with former linebacker Willie McGinest and, starting in 2004, Brady. On the author page in his 2004 book, "In Balance for Life," Guerrero says he received a degree in traditional Chinese medicine from the now-closed Samra University of Oriental Medicine in Los Angeles, and later opened a sports injury, rehabilitation and performance-enhancement center, also in Los Angeles. In 2013, Belichick had welcomed Guerrero into the New England fold, giving him free rein in the building and, sources with direct knowledge of the situation say, access to meetings in which medical records for Patriots players were discussed (Guerrero denies ever having seen any records). The coach figured that, because Guerrero had Brady's best interests in mind, he probably had the Patriots' best interests in mind too, and could be trusted. But Guerrero often would blame Patriots trainers for injuries, while offering few insightful opinions of his own, and Belichick quickly realized inviting him had been a mistake. And so in 2014, he eliminated Guerrero's access to those meetings while keeping him on as a team consultant. That was the same year Brady and Guerrero decided to market their business as revolutionary; the same year that Brady began to speak unwaveringly about playing into his mid-40s; and the same year that Belichick drafted Jimmy Garoppolo out of Eastern Illinois -- the first sign that Belichick was invested in a future that did not include the quarterback who had changed his life and legacy.


It was also the same year that the Patriots would go on a run toward their fourth Super Bowl win, altering the team dynamic in fundamental ways that would come to a head this fall. During their 10-year championship drought, Brady and Belichick had come up just short together and could only dive back into the redemptive power of work, trying to slim the margins between defeat and victory. In beating the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XLIX, the two men drew strength from different touchstones. Belichick found virtue in his idea of the Patriot Way -- the demanding, football-first culture with an emotionless pursuit of victory -- and Brady found virtue in his Method, which he believed helped him thwart the inevitability of time, reinforcing his belief that he was still not on the downside of his career and deserving of a new contract. In 2016, Kraft and Brady's agent, Don Yee, began negotiating a new deal; Belichick and other Patriots staff had to abruptly leave the NFL combine in Indianapolis to be part of the process. Brady's two-year contract, with a $28 million signing bonus, was designed to set up 2018 as a key year, when the team could, in theory, look at a 41-year-old Brady and his $22 million cap hit and decide if it made sense to transition to Garoppolo.

A year later, after another Super Bowl win -- the Brady-led, historic comeback from 28-3 to defeat the Atlanta Falcons -- Brady's stature in the organization had grown to the point that he was considered management. New players often address him as "sir." As Brady gained power, so did Guerrero, who became an even more divisive force in the building. One player visited TB12 under what he perceived as pressure, and declined to allow Guerrero to massage his injured legs. Instead he asked to keep treatment limited to only his arm, out of fear that one of Guerrero's famous deep-force muscle treatments would set back his recovery. The Boston Sports Journal would report on another player who was told by Patriots trainers to do squats but later instructed by Guerrero to not do them. Brady would tell teammates, "Bill's answer to everything is to lift more weights" -- a claim that many staffers and players felt was unfair, given the team's dedication to soft-tissue science and a healthy diet.

And so after several such incidents, Belichick explained to Brady in early September that many younger players felt pressured to train at TB12 rather than with the team, and asked the quarterback what was going on. Brady said he didn't know anything about any such pressure, according to people briefed on the exchange, and the two men left the meeting without any resolution.

Belichick felt the need to permanently clarify Guerrero's role, drawing sharp boundaries. After the brief discussion with Brady, Belichick emailed Guerrero to let him know that while he was welcome to work with any players who sought out TB12, he was no longer permitted access to the sideline or all of the team headquarters because he wasn't an employee of the Patriots (a point that Belichick would resoundingly make clear when reporters asked about Guerrero).

An email designed to solve problems only created more of them. Guerrero texted some of the Patriots players who were clients and specified, he says now, "that I would need to treat them at the TB12 Sports Therapy Center." But several players told staffers and coaches that Guerrero gave them the impression that Belichick would no longer allow them to work with him. In the view of many Patriots, it was an example of Guerrero trying to split the organization by turning players against Belichick. All of this happened as Brady, serving as TB12's test case, continued to reiterate publicly and privately his goal of playing into his mid-40s. In October, he again explained to Kraft and Belichick his plans to play a few more years. The question was whether Brady had earned long-term security from the Patriots, or if he would finish his career somewhere else.


Belichick drafted Jimmy Garoppolo in 2014 as a future successor to Brady but traded him to San Francisco this season under orders from Patriots owner Robert Kraft. Roy K. Miller/Icon Sportswire
BELICHICK HAS FAMOUSLY staked his entire career on the idea that long-term security doesn't exist in the NFL. Fear, paranoia, the irrelevance of yesterday and tomorrow, and acceptance of Belichick as the ultimate authority are as much a part of the Patriot Way as selflessness and sacrifice. For years, Brady stood as the perfect model for Belichick's system, a future Hall of Famer who could withstand tough and biting coaching. Brady always knew the hits were coming during Monday morning film sessions -- "The quarterback at Foxborough High could make that throw," Belichick often would say after replaying a Brady misfire -- but he could take it, secure not only in the knowledge of his singular impact on Belichick's career but also in the theater of it all, that the coach was doing it in part to send a message that nobody was above criticism. "Tommy is fine with it," his father, Tom Brady Sr., said years ago over dinner in San Mateo, California. "He's the perfect foil for it."

Brady is less fine with it this year. People close to him believe that it started after last year's playoff win over the Houston Texans, in which Brady completed only 18 of 38 passes and threw two interceptions. Belichick lit into him in front of the entire team in a way nobody had ever seen, ripping Brady for carelessness with the ball. "This will get us beat," he told the team after replaying a Brady interception. "We were lucky to get away with a win."

The criticism has continued this year, as Brady has been hit a lot and battled various injuries. Atypically, he has missed a lot of practices and, in the team's private evaluations, is showing the slippage of a 40-year-old quarterback even as he is contending for MVP and is as deadly as ever with the game on the line. Injuries to his shoulder and Achilles have done more than undermine claims that the TB12 Method can help you play football virtually pain-free. Subtle changes have at times hampered the offense and affected the depth chart. On a fourth-quarter play against the Los Angeles Chargers, for instance, Brady had a clean pocket and a first read open deep, possibly for a touchdown. But Brady got rid of the ball quickly over the middle to receiver Chris Hogan, who had nowhere to run and was hit hard, injuring his shoulder. He missed all but one game of the rest of the season. "Tom was trying to get it out quick," a Patriots staffer says. "As fragility has increased, nervousness has also increased."

At the same time, as his age has increased, Brady has become an advocate of positive thinking. Belichick's negativity and cynicism have gotten old, Brady has told other Patriots players and staff. He feels he has accomplished enough that he shouldn't have to endure so much grief. Patriots staffers have noticed that, this year more than ever, he seems to volley between unwavering confidence and driving insecurity. Brady has noted to staff a few times this year that, no matter how many game-changing throws he makes, Belichick hasn't awarded him Patriot of the Week all year.

Those who know Belichick and Brady well are amazed that they've co-existed this long, two ruthless and proud self-made men, both secure though still unfinished in their legacies, both loved and hated, both having received stiff penalties for cheating, both motivated by ego, humility and -- as much as anything -- doubt. Belichick is famously secretive, creating an entire system in which knowledge flows directly to him and only he decides how to deploy and exploit it. And Brady is famously unhelpful toward his backups -- or, at least, a threat like Garoppolo. The two quarterbacks were friendly, but Brady -- like Joe Montana to Steve Young and Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers -- didn't see it as his role to advise Garoppolo, even on matters as trivial as footwork, as nobody had helped him during his climb. Garoppolo played well in 2016, starting in place of the suspended Brady, and Belichick began to see Garoppolo as the final piece of his legacy, to walk away in a few years with the Patriots secure at quarterback. But after Garoppolo was knocked out of his second start because of a shoulder injury, he set up a visit at TB12. As he later told Patriots staffers, when he arrived, the door was locked. He knocked; nobody was there. He called TB12 trainers but nobody answered. He couldn't believe it, Garoppolo told the staffers, and that night ended up visiting team trainers instead. Guerrero vehemently denies ever refusing to see any player, and Garoppolo was eventually treated at TB12 -- but it was two weeks after he showed up for his original appointment, and only after a high-ranking Patriots staffer called TB12 to inquire why Garoppolo hadn't been admitted.

Several times this past October, Brady met with Kraft to discuss playing longer. That same month, he also met with Belichick, who was skeptical of a long-term contract extension but was content to start Brady as long as he was the best quarterback. Belichick understood how much Brady had meant to the franchise, and had always insisted privately that he wouldn't move on from Brady unless he could convince the coaching staff of it. But the reality was that no quarterback has ever played at a championship level into his 40s. The meeting ended in a "little blowup," according to a source. Complicating matters was that Garoppolo would be a free agent at the end of this season. Complicating matters more was that Brady and Garoppolo share Yee as an agent.

And complicating matters even more was that Belichick didn't want to trade Garoppolo. He had passed on dealing him last spring, when Garoppolo was in high demand. In early September, Belichick did trade third-string quarterback Jacoby Brissett to the Colts for wide receiver Phillip Dorsett. "If we trade Jimmy, we're the Cleveland Browns, with no succession plan," one person inside the organization said earlier in the year. The Patriots repeatedly offered Garoppolo four-year contract extensions, in the $17 million to $18 million range annually that would go higher if and when he succeeded Brady. Garoppolo and Yee rejected the offers out of hand, for reasons that remain unclear, and the Patriots knew they couldn't make any promises to Garoppolo about the timing of a transition at quarterback without it getting back to Brady.

Two weeks before the Nov. 1 trading deadline, Belichick met with Kraft to discuss the quarterback situation. According to staffers, the meeting ran long, lasting half the day and pushing back Belichick's other meetings. The office was buzzing. The meeting ended with a clear mandate to Belichick: trade Garoppolo because he would not be in the team's long-term plans, and then, once again, find the best quarterback in the draft and develop him. Belichick was furious and demoralized, according to friends. But in the end, he did what he asks of his players and coaches: He did his job. One morning in late October, Belichick texted San Francisco 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan and asked him to call. Belichick had long admired Kyle's father, Mike, who not only had been one of the NFL's smartest tacticians but had also personally defended Belichick to commissioner Roger Goodell during the Spygate scandal. At the combine this past February, Kyle, weeks into the 49ers job after being the offensive coordinator for the Falcons, met with Belichick for hours to learn from his team's humiliating Super Bowl loss. Belichick believed that Garoppolo would excel under Shanahan, and when he and Shanahan connected on the phone, Belichick offered the quarterback for a second-rounder.

It was a steal, leaving Patriots staffers stunned and confused. Why would the game's shrewdest long-term strategist trade two backup quarterbacks in a two-month span when his starter was 40 years old and banged up? And why did Belichick practically give away a quarterback whom the coaches saw as a potential top-10 player for much less than he could have gotten last spring? It made no sense. Belichick handled the trade as he always does, by not explaining it to the coaches and by burying them so deep in work that they didn't have time to gossip. Most in the organization understood that it was an extreme case, with extreme personalities, but they felt that Belichick had earned the right to make football decisions. Belichick, having always subscribed to the philosophy that it's time to go once an owner gets involved in football decisions, left the impression with some friends that the current dynamic was unsustainable.

Brady, though, seemed liberated. Kraft hugged Brady when he saw him that week, in full view of teammates. A few days later during practice, some players and staffers noticed that Brady seemed especially excited, hollering and cajoling. Brady was once again the team's present and future. His new backup, Brian Hoyer, was a longtime friend and not a threat. The owner was in Brady's corner. "He won," a Patriots staffer says.


In the Patriots' private evaluations, Brady is showing the slippage of a 40-year-old quarterback even as he contends for MVP and is as deadly as ever with the game on the line. AP Photo/Charles Krupa
NOBODY IS BUDGING now. Kraft, Brady and Belichick were supposed to meet in late December to clear the air, but that never happened. It probably won't until after the season. Those interviewed describe a lingering sadness around the team, as if coaches and staff know that the end might be near. Both McDaniels and defensive coordinator Matt Patricia are expected to become head coaches; other assistant coaches might leave to join their staffs or for college jobs, or even retire. The imminent exodus raises the question going forward: Is it possible that Belichick would rather walk away than try to rebuild the staff with a 41-year-old Brady and another year of Guerrero drama -- all while trying to develop a new quarterback? Belichick being Belichick, those around him know nothing of his plans. He has always been a football genius, artfully letting situations play out. The looming uncertainty has taken a toll on everyone, even as the Patriots finished 13-3 and earned the top seed in the AFC playoffs. "Bill's done a phenomenal job of holding the building together," one Patriots official says.


Now 76 years old, Kraft ultimately will attempt to broker a solution. He has paid both Brady and Belichick tens of millions of dollars, won and lost some of the greatest games in NFL history with them, and has stood by both at their lowest moments. He apologized in front of a room of owners for Spygate. And he stood by Brady during Deflategate, even after he backed down and accepted the NFL's penalty. Kraft did so even though many staffers in the building believed there was merit in the allegation, however absurd the case. The team quietly parted ways with both John Jastremski and Jim McNally, the equipment staffers accused of deflating footballs -- they've never spoken publicly -- and Belichick reorganized the equipment staff. Kraft has privately told associates he knew that he went too far in his attacks against the league. "I had to do it for the fans," he has told confidants.

A fifth Super Bowl triumph healed some of those wounds, but there's no guarantee that a sixth will fix the rest. Something has to change, that much everyone knows. Many Patriots players and staff believe that Brady is a good man who has a hard time saying no to Guerrero. They've noticed that he seems to be searching this year, as if reaching the pinnacle of his profession is as fleeting as it is rewarding, manifesting itself in outbursts like the one at McDaniels. Belichick seems to be grinding harder than ever, as if more than a sixth championship is at stake. Before the Patriots played the Steelers in December, he told players, "I brought you here for games like this."

But Belichick also has taken a longer view, as though he sees pieces of his impact leaguewide. He's preparing assistant coaches for job interviews elsewhere, which he didn't always do in years past. He has taken pride in Garoppolo's 5-0 record in San Francisco -- and in the fact that Kraft has confessed to people in the building that trading Garoppolo might have been a mistake. He reset a toxic relationship with the Colts with the Brissett trade. He has even become good friends with Goodell. The two men had a long and private meeting during the off week after the regular season, when the commissioner visited Foxborough.

Belichick always had a vision for how, after more than four decades in the NFL, he wanted to walk away, beyond setting up the team at quarterback. He wanted his sons, Brian and Steve, both Patriots assistants, to be established in their football careers. And he wanted the winning to continue without him, to have a legacy of always having the best interests of the franchise in mind. Both Brady and Belichick have redefined how much influence a coach and quarterback can have on a team game. But this year has shown that the legacy of football's greatest coach, like the game itself, is beyond his control.

A FEW HOURS before the Patriots played the New York Jets in the regular-season finale, Belichick walked straight out of the locker room and out to the field. It was 13 degrees before kickoff with subzero wind chill, the coldest regular-season game in team history, but he was wearing a short-sleeve T-shirt, shorts and receiver gloves. Pictures of him went viral, and for a moment it was reminiscent of a legendary playoff game 16 years earlier, when the Patriots played the Raiders in the snow. That night, Brady once recalled in an NFL Films interview, he took the field for warm-ups wearing a sleeveless T-shirt in the thick snow. He was 24 years old, at the beginning of a career only he saw coming. He wanted to send a message to everyone watching that nobody was tougher, both mentally and physically, than this California kid. That night, Brady showed that he was immune to the stage, a deficit, the weather and a stout defense. It was clear that the Patriots had something special, both at quarterback and under the headset, and it created a moment, both emboldening and addictive, that has lasted far longer than anyone could have expected.

On Sunday, the moment -- their moment -- seemed as alive as ever, to the outside. Belichick ordered the field crew to hang thermometers in the hallway outside of the Jets' locker room, just to mess with a franchise he still hates so much that he barely mentions his years there in the Patriots' media guide. The game unfolded like many have for the Patriots this year, with Brady looking mortal at times and like an MVP at others. As usual, the Patriots won. It didn't look like Belichick's last regular-season game as the Patriots' head coach, but several coaches and staffers later remarked to one another that it felt as if it could be. As Brady and Belichick left the field, bundled up in the cold, the only thing clear was that the beginning of the end started a long time ago, masked by success and the joy and pain of the rise, leaving both men this year's playoffs and their collective will to stave off the fall.

_______________________
We rationalize dumb shit

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Any of you believe this ESPN Patriots story?
Jan 05th 2018
1
not putting in faith in this part
Jan 05th 2018
2
RE: not putting in faith in this part
Jan 05th 2018
11
I agree...it was BOUND to happen
Jan 05th 2018
3
Remember early on Lynch inquired about Brady
Jan 05th 2018
4
lmao they'll win another ring and be back for a 3peat run next year
Jan 05th 2018
5
i'm starting to worry the pats did the opposite of the packers
Jan 05th 2018
6
Believe some parts, don't believe others.
Jan 05th 2018
7
Coupled with the timing. Needs to be side eyed for sure.
Jan 05th 2018
9
      YEP exactly.
Jan 05th 2018
19
i think bill was a losing head coach before brady.
Jan 05th 2018
8
Co-sign
Jan 05th 2018
10
And young Brady was a game manager, not a star - things change
Jan 05th 2018
12
young brady lead the league in TDs his first full season, narrator
Jan 05th 2018
17
      Facts.
Jan 05th 2018
20
      Lowest YPA of his career that season...he wasn’t THAT good yet
Jan 05th 2018
21
      yet he wasn't a "game manager"...stop saying stuff
Jan 05th 2018
25
           that first title, he pretty much was....he got better, so did Bill
Jan 05th 2018
26
                first title...sure. "young brady" is far too vague.
Jan 05th 2018
28
      Why is game manager used as a negative?
Jan 05th 2018
67
           Right. Taking a backseat is part of the JOB of QB. The inability ...
Jan 05th 2018
71
                *eye roll*
Jan 05th 2018
85
                     Fair enough.
Jan 06th 2018
89
                     how many run calls did peyton audible out of tho. a shit ton i'd bet.
Jan 07th 2018
93
                          empty conjecture. I get it, winners get to invent the narrative.
Jan 07th 2018
95
                          i was legit asking. but, shit...go on and cyse his two to death.
Jan 07th 2018
96
                               lol, sure. and there was no cyse at all.
Jan 07th 2018
97
                               bruh, you mentioned peyton. i don't think much about him.
Jan 09th 2018
106
                                    it was brought up, not by me.
Jan 09th 2018
108
                                         fair enough
Jan 09th 2018
109
                               One of which wasn't really "his" but again, I'm a hater.
Jan 07th 2018
98
                          He def did. And in response to will it isn't really "empty" ...
Jan 07th 2018
99
                               here's a real stat. Brady attempts more passes than Peyton
Jan 07th 2018
100
                                    All I said was that it wasn't really "empty," there's something there.
Jan 07th 2018
101
                                    RE: here's a real stat. Brady attempts more passes than Peyton
Jan 07th 2018
102
                                         And you still haven't heard of it cause I/we didn't say that.
Jan 07th 2018
103
true. he also coached a Matt Cassel led team to 10-5
Jan 05th 2018
48
woulda been more impressive if they'd made the playoffs. they did not.
Jan 06th 2018
90
Oooooooor maybe just MAYBE
Jan 05th 2018
57
Damn, too bad NYG hired a GM already
Jan 05th 2018
13
fire him
Jan 05th 2018
15
There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said...
Jan 05th 2018
14
RE: There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said...
Jan 05th 2018
16
      RE: There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said...
Jan 05th 2018
18
           RE: There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said...
Jan 05th 2018
22
                All the hunnid emojis.
Jan 05th 2018
27
                and what if Belichick walks away after this season and the whole thing.....
Jan 05th 2018
30
                     What's your angle here ?
Jan 05th 2018
51
                          No "angle" just asking the same questions everybody is asking lol
Jan 05th 2018
60
                               Hahah word - I didn't mean that in a snarky way btw ...
Jan 05th 2018
63
                I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40...
Jan 05th 2018
29
                on the other hand
Jan 05th 2018
33
                or on the OTHER hand...
Jan 05th 2018
36
                     RE: or on the OTHER hand...
Jan 05th 2018
40
                     Again, hunnids.
Jan 05th 2018
52
                     It’ll be really interesting to look back on this one in a couple years
Jan 05th 2018
41
                     RE: It’ll be really interesting to look back on this one in a couple y...
Jan 05th 2018
44
                     I know Brady is up for another MVP but this season had 3 or 4 games
Jan 05th 2018
69
                RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40...
Jan 05th 2018
35
                     RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40...
Jan 05th 2018
39
                          RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40...
Jan 05th 2018
42
                               RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40...
Jan 05th 2018
45
                               THIS THIS THIS. Brady is above the other examples. With good reason.
Jan 05th 2018
53
                exactly. Brady goes when he's ready to go.
Jan 05th 2018
47
Craziest part was TB12 not treating Jimmy G
Jan 05th 2018
23
lol dude went to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College
Jan 05th 2018
24
seen some version of this many times before
Jan 05th 2018
31
Kevin O'Connell was the guy
Jan 05th 2018
32
      Ryan Mallett too
Jan 05th 2018
54
They're Trump supporters, makes sense
Jan 05th 2018
34
lol, I've had to tell a million OKSers this would've never happened
Jan 05th 2018
37
      RE: lol, I've had to tell a million OKSers this would've never happened
Jan 05th 2018
43
      correct. the tides had turned.
Jan 05th 2018
46
           RE: correct. the tides had turned.
Jan 05th 2018
61
                no they weren't
Jan 05th 2018
75
                You nailed it. It was a different league then.
Jan 05th 2018
77
                you're wrong, but that doesn't matter.
Jan 05th 2018
81
      winning is magical
Jan 09th 2018
105
           everyone understands this
Jan 10th 2018
111
I buy a lot of it, but not the magnitude
Jan 05th 2018
38
Hmm. this worked out well for Don Yee...
Jan 05th 2018
49
Guerrero and Brady are running their own sports Scientology cult
Jan 05th 2018
50
We been knew his mind was gone: http://i.imgur.com/GREPSII.png
Jan 05th 2018
55
Guerrero definitely has a phase 2 of the TB12 Method
Jan 05th 2018
59
ESPN will not stop until they bring down the Patriots. Lol
Jan 05th 2018
56
^ correct. The timing isn't by accident.
Jan 05th 2018
58
Did ESPN ban Brady's trainer from the Patriots facilities? lol
Jan 05th 2018
62
no reply to this huh? lol...the reality is Belichick stirred all this up...
Jan 05th 2018
82
does tom have 5 without shaq?
Jan 07th 2018
94
RE: ESPN will not stop until they bring down the Patriots. Lol
Jan 05th 2018
64
ESPN has an anti-Patriots agenda, for years.
Jan 05th 2018
66
RE: ESPN has an anti-Patriots agenda, for years.
Jan 05th 2018
68
I'm not blaming ESPN for anything about the timing ...
Jan 05th 2018
70
      RE: I'm not blaming ESPN for anything about the timing ...
Jan 05th 2018
74
           Well I'll rephrase cause legs brought up a good point below ...
Jan 05th 2018
76
                RE: Well I'll rephrase cause legs brought up a good point below ...
Jan 05th 2018
83
                     I never said it was "unbelievable."
Jan 06th 2018
88
You’re a Pat fan tho.. of course you know all of this shit
Jan 05th 2018
72
      Fair point.
Jan 05th 2018
73
           TB12 is sensational bruh... lol.
Jan 05th 2018
79
yes, him. the same one who floated more spygate conspiracy in 2015
Jan 05th 2018
78
      RE: yes, him. the same one who floated more spygate conspiracy in 2015
Jan 05th 2018
84
exactly. No one cares about this shit and they'll play for another SB
Jan 05th 2018
65
pretty much every fanbase thinks ESPN is out to get them
Jan 05th 2018
86
If your name is Tom... you prolly in a cult
Jan 05th 2018
80
end of the day, these bum ass pats fans/and generic sports fans
Jan 05th 2018
87
this reminds me of Tom Jackson saying the pats hate belichick
Jan 06th 2018
91
I believe anything negative about that fraudulent, well-protected team.
Jan 07th 2018
92
i believe it all however the patriots thrive in tension and drama
Jan 07th 2018
104
Pats bias (for or against) aside, it really is a fascinating endgame
Jan 09th 2018
107
It's endlessly fascinating.
Jan 09th 2018
110
hmmmmmmmm
Dec 10th 2019
112
don't let the Niners win it this year, I will party like it was the Eagl...
Dec 12th 2019
113

COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 08:46 AM

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1. "RE: Any of you believe this ESPN Patriots story?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

What is not believable?


Whether it's the end or not, the idea that there might be a serious clashing egos, agendas and personalities after 17 years seems pretty reasonable.


When does this sort of thing NOT happen?

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Boogiedwn
Member since Sep 25th 2003
8677 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 08:58 AM

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2. "not putting in faith in this part"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>it's the end


Not getting my hopes up

_______________________
We rationalize dumb shit

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:34 AM

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11. "RE: not putting in faith in this part"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>>it's the end
>
>
>Not getting my hopes up

Nor should you. Just saying the situations described and personality conflicts seem very plausible.

No reason to think that necessitates the team falling off.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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bnicedh
Charter member
4667 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:00 AM

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3. "I agree...it was BOUND to happen"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

After all that winning...ego's are going to take over. Surprised it took this long.

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:17 AM

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4. "Remember early on Lynch inquired about Brady"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There may have been something to that.

Forcing the Jimmy G trade I 100% believe. They coulda won with him.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:19 AM

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5. "lmao they'll win another ring and be back for a 3peat run next year"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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Oakley
Charter member
7810 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:21 AM

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6. "i'm starting to worry the pats did the opposite of the packers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

trading away aaron rodgers to keep an aging brett favre.

___________________________________
"WASP of the year: even if he isn�t a WASP, Oakley. Sailing? Check. In a yacht club? Check. Used the term �summer� as a verb instead of a noun? You betcha!" -thejerseytornado

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:23 AM

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7. "Believe some parts, don't believe others."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think a lot of it is *plausible* but don't really believe it's all true. Think it's easy to come to some of these conclusions based on what we DO know.

It's written by ESPN so I'm auto-skeptical.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:23 AM

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9. "Coupled with the timing. Needs to be side eyed for sure. "
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


>It's written by ESPN so I'm auto-skeptical.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:28 AM

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19. "YEP exactly."
In response to Reply # 9
Fri Jan-05-18 10:28 AM by Brew

          

>>Coupled with the timing. Needs to be side eyed for sure.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:23 AM

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8. "i think bill was a losing head coach before brady. "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:24 AM

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10. "Co-sign "
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

(c) Matt Cassell

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:49 AM

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12. "And young Brady was a game manager, not a star - things change"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:23 AM

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17. "young brady lead the league in TDs his first full season, narrator"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

you can't just say stuff. you can't.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:29 AM

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20. "Facts."
In response to Reply # 17


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:33 AM

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21. "Lowest YPA of his career that season...he wasn’t THAT good yet"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

First All Pro season(2nd team) in 2005, first team All Pro in 2007.....those were the years he became elite, which is normal progression for any star QB.

Coaches can progress too. Bill’s early 90’s Cleveland stint that was sabotaged by the franchise moving is meaningless in the scheme of things.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:58 AM

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25. "yet he wasn't a "game manager"...stop saying stuff"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 11:02 AM

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26. "that first title, he pretty much was....he got better, so did Bill"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 11:16 AM

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28. "first title...sure. "young brady" is far too vague. "
In response to Reply # 26
Fri Jan-05-18 11:17 AM by Basaglia

  

          

nm

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:12 PM

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67. "Why is game manager used as a negative? "
In response to Reply # 17


          

Same was said for Big Ben early in his career. The fuck I care what he is called as long as he is winning?

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:22 PM

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71. "Right. Taking a backseat is part of the JOB of QB. The inability ..."
In response to Reply # 67


          

... or refusal to take said backseat is the exact reason P. Manning didn't win chips when he was the focal point of the offense. He always wanted the homerun that would make him look like a king rather than taking easy money and managing the games.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 05:21 PM

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85. "*eye roll*"
In response to Reply # 71


          

>... or refusal to take said backseat is the exact reason P.
>Manning didn't win chips when he was the focal point of the
>offense. He always wanted the homerun that would make him look
>like a king rather than taking easy money and managing the
>games.

nice Skip Bayless hot take there, based on fuzzy memories.

Peyton didn't win more championships is because he didn't play as well in the postseason. and for what it's worth, his teams were often out-coached. Colts could have ran the ball more in a few games, but that's a lot of "in a perfect world, Monday Morning coach" talk.

but no, Peyton would not have three or four more chips had he just been throwing screen passes and dump-offs. nor did he just start flinging it downfield every play to be a hero.

lots of stuff to rag on Peyton about but try to deal in some sort of reality instead of randomly bringing him into this thread...

--------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Sat Jan-06-18 12:24 AM

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89. "Fair enough."
In response to Reply # 85


          

I am an admitted P. Manning hater. As hatey as they come. So I'll step back.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 09:01 AM

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93. "how many run calls did peyton audible out of tho. a shit ton i'd bet. "
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 02:14 PM

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95. "empty conjecture. I get it, winners get to invent the narrative."
In response to Reply # 93


          

--------

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 02:21 PM

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96. "i was legit asking. but, shit...go on and cyse his two to death. "
In response to Reply # 95


  

          


two.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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will_5198
Charter member
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Sun Jan-07-18 02:33 PM

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97. "lol, sure. and there was no cyse at all."
In response to Reply # 96


          

just replying to some completely out of left-field shit. 2018 article on the Patriots leadership which had zero to do with Peyton...

--------

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Jan-09-18 08:58 PM

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106. "bruh, you mentioned peyton. i don't think much about him. "
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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will_5198
Charter member
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Tue Jan-09-18 09:08 PM

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108. "it was brought up, not by me."
In response to Reply # 106


          

--------

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Jan-09-18 09:18 PM

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109. "fair enough"
In response to Reply # 108


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 03:02 PM

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98. "One of which wasn't really "his" but again, I'm a hater."
In response to Reply # 96


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 03:03 PM

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99. "He def did. And in response to will it isn't really "empty" ..."
In response to Reply # 93


          

... coaches and teammates have criticized Peyton for this for years.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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will_5198
Charter member
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Sun Jan-07-18 03:07 PM

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100. "here's a real stat. Brady attempts more passes than Peyton"
In response to Reply # 99
Sun Jan-07-18 03:07 PM by will_5198

          

per playoff game over his career. but he won more, so his interceptions and lack of run checks are never questioned. when you *win* it doesn't matter. when you *lose*, everything is up for debate.

so to say Manning's audibles (and what's funnier is you have no idea when these were, play by play) were the reason he wasn't as successful as Brady is just empty radio talk.

--------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 03:36 PM

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101. "All I said was that it wasn't really "empty," there's something there."
In response to Reply # 100


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 03:51 PM

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102. "RE: here's a real stat. Brady attempts more passes than Peyton"
In response to Reply # 100


          

>per playoff game over his career. but he won more, so his
>interceptions and lack of run checks are never questioned.
>when you *win* it doesn't matter. when you *lose*, everything
>is up for debate.
>
>so to say Manning's audibles (and what's funnier is you have
>no idea when these were, play by play) were the reason he
>wasn't as successful as Brady is just empty radio talk.

It's pretty strange.


Peyton trying to be the hero and ruining gameplans is something I have never even heard of lol.


Just say he choked in the playoffs, which he definitely did more than once.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 03:54 PM

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103. "And you still haven't heard of it cause I/we didn't say that."
In response to Reply # 102


          

>Peyton trying to be the hero and ruining gameplans is
>something I have never even heard of lol.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
5613 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 12:50 PM

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48. "true. he also coached a Matt Cassel led team to 10-5"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

which doesn't indicate genius status or anything, but shows he's more than a just a losing coach without Brady.

Also, with the benefit of hindsight i think his Bill's losing record with the Browns can been seen as more of an indictment on that shit franchise.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Sat Jan-06-18 12:32 AM

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90. "woulda been more impressive if they'd made the playoffs. they did not. "
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 02:28 PM

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57. "Oooooooor maybe just MAYBE"
In response to Reply # 8


          

The reason they have created the greatest running dynasty and lasted 18 yrs is because the GOAT coach of all time actually linked up with the GOAT qb of all time. When you are lucky enough to have that combo you win for 18 plus years, both deserving credit.

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 09:50 AM

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13. "Damn, too bad NYG hired a GM already"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Cenario
Member since Aug 24th 2005
59181 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:16 AM

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15. "fire him"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:11 AM

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14. "There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

with the amount of time they've been together and the success they've had there's bound to be some friction and egos in play.

The part about Belichick being "forced" to trade Garoppolo by Kraft doesn't really seem plausible to me but the fact Garoppolo and Brady have the same agent probably did complicate things.

It looks like it will be an interesting off-season for the Patriots.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:21 AM

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16. "RE: There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

>with the amount of time they've been together and the success
>they've had there's bound to be some friction and egos in
>play.
>
>The part about Belichick being "forced" to trade Garoppolo by
>Kraft doesn't really seem plausible to me but the fact
>Garoppolo and Brady have the same agent probably did
>complicate things.
>

"forced", no. But Kraft may have made it clear that he wants Brady to retire a Patriot barring extenuating circumstances (seems highly likely actually) and once that's decided, Jimmy G is gone, one way or another.

Again, seems highly plausible.



I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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ThaTruth
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18. "RE: There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said..."
In response to Reply # 16


          


>"forced", no. But Kraft may have made it clear that he wants
>Brady to retire a Patriot barring extenuating circumstances
>(seems highly likely actually) and once that's decided, Jimmy
>G is gone, one way or another.

that's basically the same thing just worded differently, I can't see Bill getting punked like that, if that was the case he's probably gone after this season.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Fri Jan-05-18 10:34 AM

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22. "RE: There's probably a lot of truth to it, like people have said..."
In response to Reply # 18


          

>
>>"forced", no. But Kraft may have made it clear that he wants
>>Brady to retire a Patriot barring extenuating circumstances
>>(seems highly likely actually) and once that's decided,
>Jimmy
>>G is gone, one way or another.
>
>that's basically the same thing just worded differently, I
>can't see Bill getting punked like that, if that was the case
>he's probably gone after this season.



This is beyond even Giants-Eli, and how that benching made everyone lose their minds even though Eli has been bad and team has been terrible. This is franchise Mount Rushmore shit; Lakers-Kobe, Niners-Montana, Colts-Peyton territory, EXCEPT without the injuries. Brady and the Patriots are almost synonymous, if Brady tore his ACL in preseason and Jimmy G balled out, all bets woulda been off but when he's healthy and saying he wants to play for a lot longer…most owners is gonna go for that. No way Montana ever leaves Niners without the injuries that took him off the shelf for two seasons.

Brady healthy, and very close to Kraft personally. So how you gonna sell the owner on the idea that you let Brady go play somewhere else, and hand over this dynasty to an unproven draft pick?


I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Jan-05-18 11:09 AM

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27. "All the hunnid emojis."
In response to Reply # 22
Fri Jan-05-18 11:10 AM by Brew

          

Kraft would be SKEWERED if he OK'd a trade or benching of a healthy Brady, still playing at a damn MVP level. The timing and situation is unique and crazy, Brady is a total anomaly in terms of how well he's playing at his age ... there was no opportunity to drop him and play JG.

BB played the entire thing about as well as he possibly could have, in terms of picking a QB in the draft at the right time, grooming him to take over ... in EVERY OTHER INSTANCE in NFL history, this would have been a flawless transition to the new Patriots generation. But Brady foiled all that by getting motivated by JG and winning two more chips, and still playing as well as he's ever played even at age 40.


>This is beyond even Giants-Eli, and how that benching made
>everyone lose their minds even though Eli has been bad and
>team has been terrible. This is franchise Mount Rushmore shit;
>Lakers-Kobe, Niners-Montana, Colts-Peyton territory, EXCEPT
>without the injuries. Brady and the Patriots are almost
>synonymous, if Brady tore his ACL in preseason and Jimmy G
>balled out, all bets woulda been off but when he's healthy and
>saying he wants to play for a lot longer…most owners is
>gonna go for that. No way Montana ever leaves Niners without
>the injuries that took him off the shelf for two seasons.
>
>Brady healthy, and very close to Kraft personally. So how you
>gonna sell the owner on the idea that you let Brady go play
>somewhere else, and hand over this dynasty to an unproven
>draft pick?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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ThaTruth
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30. "and what if Belichick walks away after this season and the whole thing....."
In response to Reply # 27


          

falls apart anyway?

>Kraft would be SKEWERED if he OK'd a trade or benching of a
>healthy Brady, still playing at a damn MVP level. The timing
>and situation is unique and crazy, Brady is a total anomaly in
>terms of how well he's playing at his age ... there was no
>opportunity to drop him and play JG.
>
>BB played the entire thing about as well as he possibly could
>have, in terms of picking a QB in the draft at the right time,
>grooming him to take over ... in EVERY OTHER INSTANCE in NFL
>history, this would have been a flawless transition to the new
>Patriots generation. But Brady foiled all that by getting
>motivated by JG and winning two more chips, and still playing
>as well as he's ever played even at age 40.
>

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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51. "What's your angle here ?"
In response to Reply # 30


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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ThaTruth
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60. "No "angle" just asking the same questions everybody is asking lol"
In response to Reply # 51


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Jan-05-18 03:46 PM

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63. "Hahah word - I didn't mean that in a snarky way btw ..."
In response to Reply # 60
Fri Jan-05-18 03:48 PM by Brew

          

... though looking at it now it comes off that way.

I just meant like, I'm not sure how your question relates to what I said. Like it's part of the same story but I'm just not sure where you're trying to go with it. Like are you agreeing with me and asking a rhetorical question ? Are you looking for me to answer and trying to go somewhere with it ? LOL I'm legit confused.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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ThaTruth
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29. "I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40..."
In response to Reply # 22


          

>This is beyond even Giants-Eli, and how that benching made
>everyone lose their minds even though Eli has been bad and
>team has been terrible. This is franchise Mount Rushmore shit;
>Lakers-Kobe, Niners-Montana, Colts-Peyton territory, EXCEPT
>without the injuries. Brady and the Patriots are almost
>synonymous, if Brady tore his ACL in preseason and Jimmy G
>balled out, all bets woulda been off but when he's healthy and
>saying he wants to play for a lot longer…most owners is
>gonna go for that. No way Montana ever leaves Niners without
>the injuries that took him off the shelf for two seasons.
>
>Brady healthy, and very close to Kraft personally. So how you
>gonna sell the owner on the idea that you let Brady go play
>somewhere else, and hand over this dynasty to an unproven
>draft pick?

I understand that he has been the face of the franchise for almost 20 years but Father Time is still undefeated. Historically at every other position Belichick has had no problem moving on from popular, Pro Bowl/HOF-caliber vets for younger, cheaper players. To trade both of your back up QB's in a season when your starter is 40 makes zero sense on the surface.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Fri Jan-05-18 11:34 AM

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33. "on the other hand"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

to trade both of your backups to an MVP candidate when one is clearly not the future and the other is about to be a FA and isn't re-signing makes a metric ton of sense.

when that second round pick (or a later pick, depending on the draft) becomes the next QB prospect but signed for 4 years CHEAP, it makes even more sense.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

  

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ThaTruth
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36. "or on the OTHER hand..."
In response to Reply # 33


          

your 40 year-old QB rips a hammy trotting out for warm-ups and your starting QB is Brian Hoyer.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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40. "RE: or on the OTHER hand..."
In response to Reply # 36


          

>your 40 year-old QB rips a hammy trotting out for warm-ups
>and your starting QB is Brian Hoyer.

Then your fanbase takes solace in their five superbowls and commiserates, while Tom gets ready for his Kobe-goodbye-tour the year after.


Where do you imagine the blowback would come from????


Patriots fans? LOLOLOLOLOL


No

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Jan-05-18 01:13 PM

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52. "Again, hunnids."
In response to Reply # 40


          

>>your 40 year-old QB rips a hammy trotting out for warm-ups
>>and your starting QB is Brian Hoyer.
>
>Then your fanbase takes solace in their five superbowls and
>commiserates, while Tom gets ready for his Kobe-goodbye-tour
>the year after.
>
>
>Where do you imagine the blowback would come from????
>
>
>Patriots fans? LOLOLOLOLOL
>
>
>No

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Fri Jan-05-18 12:27 PM

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41. "It’ll be really interesting to look back on this one in a couple years"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

How many more elite seasons out of Brady, after this one, would make it worth it?

How good will Jimmy G be?(early returns are promising)

Will the Pats find another strong replacement before Brady is washed up?

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Fri Jan-05-18 12:30 PM

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44. "RE: It’ll be really interesting to look back on this one in a couple y..."
In response to Reply # 41


          

If Farve had kept winning titles, and also not indulged in constant will-i-retire offseason shenanigans …Ted Thompson could never have let him go.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:18 PM

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69. "I know Brady is up for another MVP but this season had 3 or 4 games"
In response to Reply # 36


          

Where the refs kinda stepped in and helped the Pats secure wins.

Not hating but I truly believe this Pats team wasn’t as good as their record and could have easily been 10-6.

I think the decline is happening but he is still a beast.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 12:08 PM

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35. "RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40..."
In response to Reply # 29


          

>>This is beyond even Giants-Eli, and how that benching made
>>everyone lose their minds even though Eli has been bad and
>>team has been terrible. This is franchise Mount Rushmore
>shit;
>>Lakers-Kobe, Niners-Montana, Colts-Peyton territory, EXCEPT
>>without the injuries. Brady and the Patriots are almost
>>synonymous, if Brady tore his ACL in preseason and Jimmy G
>>balled out, all bets woulda been off but when he's healthy
>and
>>saying he wants to play for a lot longer…most owners is
>>gonna go for that. No way Montana ever leaves Niners without
>>the injuries that took him off the shelf for two seasons.
>>
>>Brady healthy, and very close to Kraft personally. So how
>you
>>gonna sell the owner on the idea that you let Brady go play
>>somewhere else, and hand over this dynasty to an unproven
>>draft pick?
>
>I understand that he has been the face of the franchise for
>almost 20 years but Father Time is still undefeated.

He is the FIRST face this franchise really ever had.


>Historically at every other position Belichick has had no
>problem moving on from popular, Pro Bowl/HOF-caliber vets for
>younger, cheaper players.

Yeah, Brady is beyond that level obviously, and his relationship to ownership and the city is not comparable to any other NE player.


To trade both of your back up QB's
>in a season when your starter is 40 makes zero sense on the
>surface.

See below. It had come down to either move Brady when he is winning titles at an MVP level, or trade Jimmy G before he walks.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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ThaTruth
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39. "RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

>Yeah, Brady is beyond that level obviously, and his
>relationship to ownership and the city is not comparable to
>any other NE player.

Again I don't disagree with anything you say but most coaches and especially a control freak like Belichick don't like players no matter who they are getting too chummy with ownership particularly when those relationships start influencing team decisions.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
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Fri Jan-05-18 12:28 PM

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42. "RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40..."
In response to Reply # 39


          

>>Yeah, Brady is beyond that level obviously, and his
>>relationship to ownership and the city is not comparable to
>>any other NE player.
>
>Again I don't disagree with anything you say but most coaches
>and especially a control freak like Belichick don't like
>players no matter who they are getting too chummy with
>ownership particularly when those relationships start
>influencing team decisions.


Yes, clearly Bill doesn't like it. That isn't always enough to get your way.So either he will take it on the heel, or he will get over it, especially if they win again.

Either way, Kraft's refusal to jettison Brady makes a lot of sense in context, even if it doesn't fit Bill's philosophy or approach. Some players move beyond the sphere of normal team management. In New England, Brady is that guy.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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ThaTruth
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45. "RE: I don't dispute any of that, at the end of the day Brady is still 40..."
In response to Reply # 42


          


>Yes, clearly Bill doesn't like it. That isn't always enough to
>get your way.So either he will take it on the heel, or he will
>get over it, especially if they win again.
>
>Either way, Kraft's refusal to jettison Brady makes a lot of
>sense in context, even if it doesn't fit Bill's philosophy or
>approach. Some players move beyond the sphere of normal team
>management. In New England, Brady is that guy.

I definitely understand both sides, what will be interesting to see will be if egos allow them to move past these issues after this season.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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53. "THIS THIS THIS. Brady is above the other examples. With good reason."
In response to Reply # 42


          

>Either way, Kraft's refusal to jettison Brady makes a lot of
>sense in context, even if it doesn't fit Bill's philosophy or
>approach. Some players move beyond the sphere of normal team
>management. In New England, Brady is that guy.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85073 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 12:36 PM

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47. "exactly. Brady goes when he's ready to go."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18637 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 10:42 AM

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23. "Craziest part was TB12 not treating Jimmy G"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Jan-05-18 10:43 AM by DJR

  

          

And who knows if it’s true. But that was the only part that really jumped out at me. How are you going to steer everyone to TB12 except for one guy? Lol.

Everything else seemed like what we already know, and which is pretty normal in that environment. Brady wants to keep playing and is still very good. BB did his job and found their next QB, and used common sense that a 40+ QB is going to fall off quickly once it happens. The owner was torn, but the QB won. Hopefully them making an emotional decision for once will be their undoing and they’ll be screwed once Brady is done.

  

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Kungset
Member since Mar 29th 2004
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Fri Jan-05-18 10:57 AM

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24. "lol dude went to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Fri Jan-05-18 11:29 AM

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31. "seen some version of this many times before"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This is a lot of contracture and hand waving.

For one, jimmy g wasnt the first high draft pick qb for the pats. Lol
-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Fri Jan-05-18 11:33 AM

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32. "Kevin O'Connell was the guy "
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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54. "Ryan Mallett too"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
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Fri Jan-05-18 12:03 PM

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34. "They're Trump supporters, makes sense "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

On the real, I'm inclined to believe the majority of this. I've been boycotting the NFL but still check 49ers box scores so when I saw Jimmy G balling so hard, that he was offloaded for a deluxe hamburger meal, it would lend credence to what is alleged in this story.

I really need to watch that Tuck Rule program, because bar none, that is the biggest "what if" in sports history. Would they have eventually won a Super Bowl? Probably. But who's to say they wouldn't have held on to Bledsoe a tad longer, or all the veterans who bought in early to the mystique? We shall never know.

Much as I hate these fucks, and despite their dubious ways, they carved out a hell of a chunk of North American sports history.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jan-05-18 12:21 PM

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37. "lol, I've had to tell a million OKSers this would've never happened"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

But who's to
>say they wouldn't have held on to Bledsoe a tad longer, or all
>the veterans who bought in early to the mystique? We shall
>never know.

Yes. We know. Bledsoe came back from injury and Brady kept the job. Bledsoe filled in due to injury during the AFC title game and Brady still started the Super Bowl. It was Brady's job.

  

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ThaTruth
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43. "RE: lol, I've had to tell a million OKSers this would've never happened"
In response to Reply # 37


          


>Yes. We know. Bledsoe came back from injury and Brady kept the
>job. Bledsoe filled in due to injury during the AFC title game
>and Brady still started the Super Bowl. It was Brady's job.

So are you saying the Patriots lose the tuck rule game on Brady's fumble they don't bring back Bledsoe as the starter the next season?

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jan-05-18 12:34 PM

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46. "correct. the tides had turned."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

Bledsoe was well-liked, but we just won the division with the new guy. We were pretty mediocre with Bledsoe and he was also expensive. The decision had already been made and the revisionism on here that suggests Brady's entire career was made off one play is laughable.

  

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ThaTruth
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61. "RE: correct. the tides had turned."
In response to Reply # 46


          

>Bledsoe was well-liked, but we just won the division with the
>new guy. We were pretty mediocre with Bledsoe and he was also
>expensive. The decision had already been made and the
>revisionism on here that suggests Brady's entire career was
>made off one play is laughable.

Let's not act like Brady's passing numbers weren't pretty mediocre those first few years. He didn't become "All-Pro" Tom Brady until like 2007.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Fri Jan-05-18 04:29 PM

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75. "no they weren't"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

the league hadn't gone high octane passing offense back then.

led the league in passing yards in 2005, top 10 in 2002-2006 + top ten in TDs 2002-2006, including leading the league in 2002 and #3 in 2005, #4 in 2006 + top ten passer rating too.

he was a top QB. he wasn't world-beater GOAT yet, but he also had Givens + Branch as his best WRs then.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Jan-05-18 04:31 PM

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77. "You nailed it. It was a different league then."
In response to Reply # 75


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Fri Jan-05-18 04:56 PM

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81. "you're wrong, but that doesn't matter."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          


>Let's not act like Brady's passing numbers weren't pretty
>mediocre those first few years. He didn't become "All-Pro" Tom
>Brady until like 2007.
>

what does this have to do with 2001? What does this have to do with Brady vs. Bledsoe? Why would they trade him to a division rival if they were only kinda sure Brady was the one?

It was a classic aging QB/young QB situation and given the record they had before/after Brady it was a no-brainer. Tuck Rule/No tuck rule, Ring/No ring... doesn't matter, it was Brady's job and the team and fans knew it. You can keep dreaming of alternate earths where none of this happened, but it did, and Brady is the GOAT.

  

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Beamer6178
Member since Jan 09th 2006
6379 posts
Tue Jan-09-18 08:46 PM

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105. "winning is magical"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

> But who's to
>>say they wouldn't have held on to Bledsoe a tad longer, or
>all
>>the veterans who bought in early to the mystique? We shall
>>never know.
>
>Yes. We know. Bledsoe came back from injury and Brady kept the
>job. Bledsoe filled in due to injury during the AFC title game
>and Brady still started the Super Bowl. It was Brady's job.

Holding onto Bledsoe doesn't mean that Brady doesn't beat him out as a starter. But the playoff run and Super Bowl win put it to bed. Also, winning allowed them to underpay veterans who stayed with the team and made less money in NE than they could have gotten in other places. Let's be clear: the Pats Defense was the strongest component early on.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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111. "everyone understands this"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

Let's be clear: the Pats
>Defense was the strongest component early on.

Let's be clear about this as well: Bledsoe was as good as gone and it was Brady's job. I can't stress enough how much of a done deal this really was. It's not that we all believe Brady back then was as good as Brady now, but it was the first time in a while we had hope and teams go with the younger option in that scenario like 99% of the time. The competition was over when Bledsoe returned from injury, they stuck with Brady, and we rattled off 6 straight wins to win the division. Why would we go back to an aging, expensive QB after that even if we lost the Raiders game.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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38. "I buy a lot of it, but not the magnitude"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think the Pats handled the Jimmy G thing poorly and Brady's trainer well. I also think none of this will break up the team.

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Fri Jan-05-18 12:55 PM

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49. "Hmm. this worked out well for Don Yee..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he's got an MVP QB and the hottest young QB prospect both in positions with tremendous amounts of leverage. I want to know more about this dude. he's out here earning the shit out of his agent-ing money.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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will_5198
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50. "Guerrero and Brady are running their own sports Scientology cult"
In response to Reply # 0


          

bled over into everything else. Brady saying that drinking water is better than using sunscreen to prevent skin cancer is proof that his mind is gone.

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Innocent Criminal
Member since May 03rd 2003
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55. "We been knew his mind was gone: http://i.imgur.com/GREPSII.png"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/GREPSII.png

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

  

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Marauder21
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59. "Guerrero definitely has a phase 2 of the TB12 Method"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

That involves you offering yourself up to him sexually so he can fine-tune your body to reach maximum pliability and dexterity. After you give him your life savings, of course.

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

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Sofian_Hadi
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
5628 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 02:27 PM

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56. "ESPN will not stop until they bring down the Patriots. Lol"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Seems like they try to release some bullshit story every playoffs, and the GOATS just keep GOATing

---------------------------------------

"The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in." - James Baldwin

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Jan-05-18 02:29 PM

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58. "^ correct. The timing isn't by accident."
In response to Reply # 56


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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ThaTruth
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62. "Did ESPN ban Brady's trainer from the Patriots facilities? lol"
In response to Reply # 56


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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ThaTruth
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82. "no reply to this huh? lol...the reality is Belichick stirred all this up..."
In response to Reply # 62


          

with his public feud with Brady's trainer. That whole thing could've been handled a lot more differently and discretely or after the season even lol. That got the reporters interest and then they started digging for other stuff, plain and simple.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
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Sun Jan-07-18 09:02 AM

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94. "does tom have 5 without shaq? "
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 03:53 PM

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64. "RE: ESPN will not stop until they bring down the Patriots. Lol"
In response to Reply # 56


          

Oh like when Wickersham wrote about the begin-the-scenes fracturing of the Niners front office and coaching staff?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11625088/san-francisco-49ers-head-coach-jim-harbaugh-thrives-chaos-difficulty


Or when he wrote the expose everyone in Seattle said was bullshit about Sherman and Wilson and Pete Carroll after the SB?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19446657/seattle-seahawks-cornerback-richard-sherman-let-go-problem-nfl-2017


Yeah, I'm sure that he just picks on New England. Oh and of course, no credibility to this story, just like there wasn't to any of his others that all actually turned out to mostly be true.


Fans are so weird. You can still root for your team and not believe all of them are best friends and no one ever has personality clashes or professional disagreements.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:02 PM

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66. "ESPN has an anti-Patriots agenda, for years."
In response to Reply # 64
Fri Jan-05-18 04:05 PM by Brew

          

>Yeah, I'm sure that he just picks on New England.

It's not just him. Whether or not this stuff is true, the timing of the release of this story is not an accident and the sensationalism of its conclusions are intentional as well. Most of the substance of the article are stories that were already known / being speculated about for the entire season (the Garoppolo trade, the Guerrero stuff). The rest is purely conjecture / speculative, based on flimsy (or no) information, and sensationalized for clicks. Like "it's a battle to see who will be the last man standing !" is Disney movie levels of dramatization.

I am a Patriots fan so speaking to your point about being a fan but still recognizing some disputes within the organization - yea, I do that. I am *certain* the Guerrero situation is a sensitive one for BB and TB, and at times may be a major point of contention. I also know that they've both been at this, together, for 18 years, so I think they know how to handle these internal issues that no doubt pop up, multiple times per year. And I just dismiss all this fluffy bullshit ESPN includes for the sole purpose of getting clicks.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:14 PM

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68. "RE: ESPN has an anti-Patriots agenda, for years."
In response to Reply # 66


          

But there is NO substantive difference from this and the Niners and Seattle stories that both turned out to be more true than not.


And why would you not put it out now? This is when you would put the story out lol, I fail to see how that timing draws anything into question.

Saying that makes folks sound like Roy Moore defenders out here. When do you want the story published? Week 4? After the season is over? What would make sense to you?

Of course a media outlet looks to wrap up long-term stories when they will be relevant.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:20 PM

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70. "I'm not blaming ESPN for anything about the timing ..."
In response to Reply # 68
Fri Jan-05-18 04:21 PM by Brew

          

... just saying it wasn't an accident. From a journalistic perspective it's totally understandable why they'd drop it when it would spark the highest level of interest, I get that.

And it wouldn't even be worth mentioning the timing if the story had any substance behind it. But it doesn't. So it's a mostly baseless hit piece, dropped at just the right time.

That's my only point.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:26 PM

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74. "RE: I'm not blaming ESPN for anything about the timing ..."
In response to Reply # 70


          

" if the
>story had any substance behind it. But it doesn't. So it's a
>mostly baseless hit piece, dropped at just the right time"
>
>That's my only point.


Okay, please explain this point.


There is zero substance to the story? Or some? What is not true? How is this different from his previous reporting fans of those teams also said were baseless hit pieces, that mostly turned out to be true?

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:30 PM

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76. "Well I'll rephrase cause legs brought up a good point below ..."
In response to Reply # 74


          

The only "substance" in the article is stuff we, as Patriots fans, already knew and heard about all season. That being the potential dispute between BB and Kraft re: Garoppolo, the potential dispute between BB and TB re: Guerrero ... but legs was right in that I *would* hear about that stuff, being in NE and being a Pats fan. You guys likely didn't hear many details about that stuff like I did.

But everything beyond those two pieces was pure speculation based on alleged sources, most of which was based on said sources' comments about the "feel" of the building and the, for example, "look on Brady's face" as he walked around the building, and shit like that. I don't buy any of that.

Add to that the fact that ESPN wrote the piece and I'm HUGELY skeptical.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 05:11 PM

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83. "RE: Well I'll rephrase cause legs brought up a good point below ..."
In response to Reply # 76


          

>The only "substance" in the article is stuff we, as Patriots
>fans, already knew and heard about all season. That being the
>potential dispute between BB and Kraft re: Garoppolo, the
>potential dispute between BB and TB re: Guerrero ... but legs
>was right in that I *would* hear about that stuff, being in NE
>and being a Pats fan. You guys likely didn't hear many details
>about that stuff like I did.

Likely true

>
>But everything beyond those two pieces was pure speculation
>based on alleged sources, most of which was based on said
>sources' comments about the "feel" of the building and the,
>for example, "look on Brady's face" as he walked around the
>building, and shit like that. I don't buy any of that.

What about specifically is so unbelievable?

I mean, it's a given that these are second and third hand accounts and peoples interpretations of events or people's attitudes but what things are so hard to believe??

>
>Add to that the fact that ESPN wrote the piece and I'm HUGELY
>skeptical.

Okay, so you are a "fake news" type guy? Because if you just reflexively believe media outlets are willing and eager to make up stories out of whole cloth to somehow discredit the Patriots achievements then yeah, your otherwise strange position here makes sense.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Sat Jan-06-18 12:20 AM

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88. "I never said it was &quot;unbelievable.&quot;"
In response to Reply # 83
Sat Jan-06-18 12:22 AM by Brew

          

>What about specifically is so unbelievable?
>
>I mean, it's a given that these are second and third hand
>accounts and peoples interpretations of events or people's
>attitudes but what things are so hard to believe??

In fact I said it was all "plausible." I just don't buy the exaggerated, dramatic portion of it. I don't think there's any doubt there's been some dispute about the Guerrero and JG situations this year. I just don't think they go to the "IT'S TEARING THE DYNASTY APART !!" depths this piece wants us to believe.


>Okay, so you are a "fake news" type guy? Because if you just
>reflexively believe media outlets are willing and eager to
>make up stories out of whole cloth to somehow discredit the
>Patriots achievements then yeah, your otherwise strange
>position here makes sense.

Uh, no. Nice try though.

But ESPN has had their moments with the Pats in recent years. Like someone else said, it's not specific to the Patriots. But there are several examples of the anti-Pats slant. So I take their Patriots reporting with a grain of salt, specifically when it's a fluff piece like this.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:23 PM

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72. "You’re a Pat fan tho.. of course you know all of this shit"
In response to Reply # 66
Fri Jan-05-18 04:24 PM by legsdiamond

          

but most of us don’t know about the ins and outs of this team because they are pretty boring when it comes to giving up info to the media.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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73. "Fair point."
In response to Reply # 72


          

And had the story stuck to those facts without the sensationalism I wouldn't be so vocal about it. But the extra shit is what's annoying.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79594 posts
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79. "TB12 is sensational bruh... lol. "
In response to Reply # 73


          

That shit sounds wacky as fuck.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 04:39 PM

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78. "yes, him. the same one who floated more spygate conspiracy in 2015"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

dude has hits and misses. this one seems like an exaggeration of tensions between brady + belichick that have existed and been known for a long time and aren't earth-shattering at all.


-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 05:13 PM

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84. "RE: yes, him. the same one who floated more spygate conspiracy in 2015"
In response to Reply # 78


          

>dude has hits and misses. this one seems like an exaggeration
>of tensions between brady + belichick that have existed and
>been known for a long time and aren't earth-shattering at
>all.
>

Okay, it clearly is news to some people though. If you think every NFL fan has been following developments with TB12 and the Patriots depth chart, you are wrong.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18386 posts
Fri Jan-05-18 03:55 PM

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65. "exactly. No one cares about this shit and they'll play for another SB"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

  

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will_5198
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Fri Jan-05-18 05:23 PM

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86. "pretty much every fanbase thinks ESPN is out to get them"
In response to Reply # 56


          

some of mine included

--------

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
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Fri Jan-05-18 04:48 PM

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80. "If your name is Tom... you prolly in a cult"
In response to Reply # 0


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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rob
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Fri Jan-05-18 10:34 PM

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87. "end of the day, these bum ass pats fans/and generic sports fans"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

are more likely to see themselves in belichik than brady.

i think it's as simple as that once brady's body or the team dynamics break down.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Sat Jan-06-18 11:31 AM

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91. "this reminds me of Tom Jackson saying the pats hate belichick"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in 2003.

-----------
you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 08:18 AM

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92. "I believe anything negative about that fraudulent, well-protected team."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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mistermaxxx08
Member since Dec 31st 2010
16076 posts
Sun Jan-07-18 05:17 PM

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104. "i believe it all however the patriots thrive in tension and drama"
In response to Reply # 0


          

most other franchises would be wrecked however the patriots don't miss a beat. all the deflections and they still keep it moving.

i do believe both sides would like to win a chip without the other however who is gonna make that happen?

Kraft is team Brady First.

Patriots are like a on going soap opera. no doubt Jimmy G was the stone cold truth. they gonna miss that in the future.

mistermaxxx R.Kelly, Michael Jackson,Stevie wonder,Rick James,Marvin Gaye,El Debarge, Barry WHite Lionel RIchie,Isleys EWF,Lady T.,Kid creole and coconuts,the crusaders,kc sunshine band,bee gees,jW,sd,NE,JB

Miami Heat, New York Yankees,buffalo bills

  

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will_5198
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Tue Jan-09-18 09:07 PM

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107. "Pats bias (for or against) aside, it really is a fascinating endgame"
In response to Reply # 0


          

thinking about Saban last night -- he benched his starting quarterback at halftime of the goddamn national championship for a true freshman. how many other coaches would've sat their quarterback in that situation, the same quarterback who had a 25-2 record and 40-10 TD-INT ratio?

one for sure, and that's Belichick. Belichick is consumed by gaining any possible edge, whether it's signing an opponent's former player for one week or benching a quarterback with five Super Bowl rings. Spygate happened because of Belichick trying to subvert any rule he can. his loyalty goes as far as the next play.

so in Belichick's mind, he'll be damned if he has to sacrifice his edge to watch Brady play out the string. and Kraft in-between it all. purely anecdotally, Belichick always seemed cool to the Krafts and treated them as a necessary evil -- "let me make my decisions and don't try to be Jerry Jones/Irsay". but Kraft siding with Brady would totally go against that.

then there's Brady, probably the most stubborn competitor in American sports since Jordan. yeah, he's had a Hall of Fame coach for his entire career -- which gave him an advantage in nearly every game -- but Belichick never won a Super Bowl without him, either. this cutthroat fucker is going to tell me when to go, when I have the owner on my side?

however it ends will be a 30 for 30 by itself.

--------

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Jan-09-18 10:06 PM

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110. "It's endlessly fascinating."
In response to Reply # 107
Tue Jan-09-18 10:22 PM by Brew

          

The ESPN piece is overblown, sensationalized, over-dramatic, supported by flimsy and false details ... but the core of the story is there, is true (IMO), and as you say, absolutely fascinating stuff. It has been all of that, before the story even came out.

In really any other similar scenario in history and probably in the future, Belichick would have played the Brady/Garoppolo situation *flawlessly*. He drafted JG when Brady was starting to show some signs of his age. Brady being the fierce competitor he is, he was motivated by it rather than discouraged, and had a late career resurgence rarely (if ever) seen before, and locked up 2 more titles. Had that not happened, I think JG would've stepped in and the Pats would've still continued to be competitive.

Then this year came, and I have a feeling (this is all spec on my part) Belichick thought Brady may slip due to (a) age and (b) possible complacency with having grabbed his 5th title. So in some way I think Bill may have assumed he'd have an opportunity this year to slide JG into the starting role and have a relatively seamless transition.

But Brady is an anomaly and had an MVP-caliber year at 40, forcing the Pats' hand. Belichick def didn't want to trade JG, but the one guy Kraft was willing to step in on behalf of was Brady, because of all he's meant to the franchise. And rightfully so. It'd be a PR nightmare for the Pats to part ways with the most important and legendary player in Pats history at any time, but particularly when he's still playing at a championship level.

So Bill had to trade his heir to the QB throne, and here we are. It's an unprecedented situation and only history will tell whether or not it was the "right" choice (though I don't know that there even *was* a right choice in this particular situation). If Brady wins his 6th this year, it was worth trading the "next guy." If the Pats don't win it this year, and Brady slips next year, and JG turns out to be the real deal ... well, shit.

It's a "good" problem to have had, I suppose. It's just crazy how the timing *should* have been perfect, when considering the history of 40yo QBs ... but alas, Brady is a psychopath, and that's why we're here.

You're right tho - a 30 for 30 on this whole situation will be great in a few years. Hopefully Brady's *REALLY* an anomaly and can play til he's 45 like he wants to lol.

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"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Tue Dec-10-19 09:48 AM

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112. "hmmmmmmmm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Thu Dec-12-19 09:02 AM

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113. "don't let the Niners win it this year, I will party like it was the Eagl..."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

even more hilarious if they beat the Cheatriots
(I don't think the Cheatriots are getting past Baltimore if they face each other)

  

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