27. "Oh please, it is absolutely not that cut-and-dried" In response to Reply # 3
If he caught the ball at the ten yard line and went in the same way, it's a touchdown. They are applying standards of a catch to a play where he already had possession. Reception was clean and complete, he was a ball-carrier like any other there. If there is interpretation is otherwise, then it's wrong. The way they applied the rule would be correct in many situations but not necessarily in this one. Very suspect ruling, especially as a review as opposed to an on-the-spot call. Had they ruled this way on the field and failed to overturn, OK, but to rule the other way and overturn? No, that is not something I am just going to Cuban B away like "Welp, bad rule!"
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
This wasn't a control-of-the-ball issue like you're describing or like the Dez Bryant play which many morons (mostly but not exclusively Dallas fans) have compared this to. He had complete control of the ball, made a football move and had already secured the reception. He should have been treated no different than a running back in the open field or a quarterback scrambling in. The rule states differently for a receiver who immediately touched the ball and was still trying to gain possession, but that standard should not have applied here.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
35. "if that were the case" In response to Reply # 32
then the refs ruled wrong according to the rules.
but the refs ruled that *wasn't* the case and that James had not made a football move and thus needed to complete control to the ground which is the equivalent of a football move.
if what you say is true, then he scored a TD by the rules and the refs fucked up and the rule is fine.
but you're alone in claiming that, basically and the NFL says so here:
38. "of course they are defending the decision." In response to Reply # 35
you can find earlier tweets not related to the rule indicating the play is dead when the ball crosses the plane.
to me he had control. that is somewhat subjective. i could easily be wrong. the officials are not right simply because they offer a justification though. to me he had control and went in, bang, TD. the announcers on the broadcast obviously saw it the same way, listen to the broadcast. they are wondering why the fuck the review is taking so long and stunned when the call is overturned. so i am not "alone" in this line of thinking, if i were they wouldn't have reacted that way on air and this would not be the most controversial play of the fucking season.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
40. "lol @ referencing broadcasters like that's halfway decent evidence" In response to Reply # 38
they're wildly off-base at least half of the time.
"This wasn't a control-of-the-ball issue" except that it was. had it not been, it would have been cut and dry. you can argue about whether or not he had control, but the problem is that (to steal from a comment somewhere else), the world is never a "yes or no" situation. There are catches, semi-fumbled catches, bobbles, drops, etc. It's a spectrum. NO MATTER WHAT, there will be a play right on the border that people will think should be one way but the rule reads the other way.
no matter what--there is never a perfect rule for something like "what is a catch?" so play it as it lay. he hadn't made a football move before going to ground. Thus, he had to complete the process of going to the ground without losing the ball. much of the dissent on here doesn't understand that's true of any/all catches in the endzone or not. That's not a legit critique of the rule, that's ignorance.
it's like the tuck rule--you can say it's a stupid rule and I probably agree, but on replay, it's obvious the rule was applied correctly.
----------- you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
37. "The refs ruled he didn’t make a football move" In response to Reply # 27
Therefore, he has to complete the process as he goes to the ground. Once they ruled it wasn’t a football move, the rule is cut and dry so everything else you said is irrelevant
--------------------------------- <--The drought is over
"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS
"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left." -Kobe speaking to investigators
39. "that ruling is far from definitive IMHO and that's what you need to over..." In response to Reply # 37
like i said, had they ruled no TD and then upheld it, cool. the play was very close. call on the field should have stood. evidence standards not withstanding, yes, i interpreted the play differently and no i didn't care who won the game. if we are talking interpretations, then it's not cut and dried, which was my original point. it should go without saying given the level of discussion and dissent surrounding this call.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
18. "When you leave your feet to catch the ball u have have control all the w..." In response to Reply # 17
Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.
22. "I get the sense and purpose of the rule, i'm not sure how to change it" In response to Reply # 18
the wording to get the rule to the place we all think it needs to be. Unless you just leave it up to the refs judgment...which would be an L.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
23. "how bout, catch, 2 feet down. DONE. Catch. " In response to Reply # 22
That would then make the ball crossing the plane a td too. Its such a dumb gray area, because it doenst fall into the ground cant cause a fumble because technically it wasnt even a catch yet.
26. "what about if the ball is still moving the 2 feet hit?" In response to Reply # 23
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
45. "Not according to the rule, as written, no." In response to Reply # 44 Tue Dec-19-17 11:23 AM by Brew
A "football move" is described as planting two feet on the ground, and establishing yourself as a runner, by running. Two steps, I believe.
He was diving for a catch, and his knee hit the ground. Therefore, he hadn't established himself as a runner, and therefore, the rule is that he has to finish the catch and survive the ground. He didn't. Incomplete.
The rule is clear. It's a dicey rule, I don't particularly love it. But it's clear. And the call was correct, based on that incredibly clear rule.
48. "Agreed. The rule is wacky. And doesn't reward fun endzone plays." In response to Reply # 46
It's unfortunate IMO. Lot of great TD catches are wiped out cause of it.
One thing I will say is that it's consistent, in a way. The same call will happen at the goalline that would happen at the 50 yd line.
But I think they need to adjust the rule to allow for the "break the plane of the endzone" thing to exist again, to allow for these great catches to matter. In other words if Dez snags a ball, taps both feet, and has control ... TD. No matter what happens after he hits the ground.
But alas, here we are. They will def be revisiting in the offseason, considering how many issues there have been this year.
50. "how do they do that..." In response to Reply # 48
without making a play that's not a catch in the field of play into a catch in the endzone? Cuz the second that happens, people are gonna be mad on the other side of it.
there is no perfect rule to make everyone happy. I'm glad there's a consistent rule. the next rule should be consistent too. I can't come up with an equally (or more) consistent version that would make the pissed off contingent happy that doesn't just swap which team's fans would be pissed off.
----------- you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia
53. "The "plane of the endzone" element is the differentiator." In response to Reply # 50 Tue Dec-19-17 04:39 PM by Brew
>without making a play that's not a catch in the field of play >into a catch in the endzone? Cuz the second that happens, >people are gonna be mad on the other side of it.
That's it. It's that easy. It rewards great endzone catches while still taking the "interpretation" portion out of it. If you're in the endzone or reaching for the endzone, if you control the ball at the time it breaks the plane, it's a touchdown, even if you lose the ball as you hit the ground.
If the same play happens in the middle of the field, because the imaginary endzone plane doesn't exist, it's incomplete.
It's not that difficult, and brings back some fun to the kinds of plays people want to see.
>there is no perfect rule to make everyone happy. I'm glad >there's a consistent rule. the next rule should be consistent >too. I can't come up with an equally (or more) consistent >version that would make the pissed off contingent happy that >doesn't just swap which team's fans would be pissed off.
I dunno I think most fans, objectively speaking, would prefer great touchdown plays be rewarded than be called back on some technicality. Being a Pats fan I was happy that call was in place this past Sunday; but as just a plain old football fan having no horse in the race, I certainly fucking wish Dezzy got rewarded for that amazing catch/play he made whenever it was.
52. "lost a lot of respect for the "Science Guy" after that" In response to Reply # 51
Anyone who doesn't think Deflategate was some BS at this point is beyond help. Spygate was obviously bad, but Warren also cited the SB walkthru tape, a story which was retracted by the paper who claimed it like 10 years ago.
54. "Uh yup. A trillion percent false." In response to Reply # 49 Tue Dec-19-17 04:44 PM by Brew
For starters, no one taped any walkthroughs. That was thoroughly disproven as an outright lie and you poor, poor little things need to move on from that lie. You look really sad. No matter how hard you pray when kneeling next to your bed at nite, it won't make that a true story.
And no matter how hard you pray when kneeling next to your bed at nite, Brady's hall of fame career will not be in Canton with some little asterisk next to his name, nor will anyone add some asterisk next to his name in the history books. When looking back on his career, only a very tiny percentage of you poor things will give a shit about Roger Goodell's witch hunt ... nor will they attribute the transgressions of his head coach against him.
But keep praying for this pretend asterisk if it helps you sleep at nite. At this point Brady's career and Belichick's career are both bullet proof. And it's adorable to watch this tiny percentage of you continue to squirm about it.
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