<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

than Lonzo and Lonzo has better assist, rebound, block & steal numbers and his team has a better record.

Sac & Dallas are the 2 worst teams in the West, it’s a lot easier to pad with zero expectations.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

If you base it off of stats or your eyes and you're not a Lakers fan or have stock in the Big Beige Baller Corp, you can clearly see that.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Lonzo' s also the 2nd highest rated defender on the team (trailing BI, team is currently 6th in defensive rating - the major reason for our relative success thus far)

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

I just know better.

I said better last year.

Said better at the draft.

I'm still saying better.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

my $$$$$ is on Lonzo.

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

>my $$$$$ is on Lonzo.

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.

He might not throw the best outlet baseball passes, but he's better at everything else.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

------------------
One Hundred.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

gave him the ball twice down the stretch


was at the game last night. the kid is unbelievably quick in person. Kings squad is lowkey fun to watch

I like Justin Jackson. Malachi came in and made some good shots too.

WCS has to stay engaged though.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

The inconsistencies of a young squad. I’m getting madder and madder seeing Russell become the player I thought he’d be though. Fuckin Mosgov.

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

10 shots, 10 shots and 28 minutes for everybody. Shit. I don’t even know what I’m mad at, at this point. I’m just mad.

The two 5 minute stretches where he left the game (end of the 1st and 3rd)...Milwaukee built their lead

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

On ebled the defensive beast

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

.

************************************************************

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

shit games in a row and you were quiet as hell lol

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

got in their feelings and thought this was about Lonzo.

This about D-Fox being better than all them guards Markelle, Dennis Smith, Frankie the Knick, Donovan Mitchell, and Lonzo. With Lonzo having a good chance of being the worst out of all of them.

(I didn't include Monk cuz ape don't kill ape)

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

>got in their feelings and thought this was about Lonzo.
>
>This about D-Fox being better than all them guards Markelle,
>Dennis Smith, Frankie the Knick, Donovan Mitchell, and Lonzo.
>With Lonzo having a good chance of being the worst out of all
>of them.

How many of them have 2 triple doubles? Or 1? I’ll wait...

Fox ain’t better than Smith either.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

How'd that work out for the Lakers the last 2 games?

Every time they make a run, your mans on the bench.

Why?

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Efg% - Fox
Ftr - Fox
Orb% - Zo
Drb% - Zo
Trb% - Zo
Ast% - Zo
Stl% - Zo
Blk % - Zo
Tov% - Fox
Usg - Zo
OWS - Fox
DWS - Zo (by far the biggest discrepancy of all the numbers, Zo is 10x of D'Aaron)
WS - Zo
WS/48 - Zo

As a straight up comparison (not a fan of this but considering it's your thing, I'll go with it) - D'Aaron is shooting better and getting to the line more with less turnovers, while Zo has been the better rebounder, passer, by far the better defender, and contributed more to his team's positive output.

Compared to the league averages - Fox is shooting below average from the field while doing everything else below average, while Lonzo is shooting way below average from the field while doing everything else above average.

I know you don't watch the Lakers outside of national games but it's pretty clear who is playing better once you take off the UK tinted glasses.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

Go for it.

Fox has been better in every game I’ve ever seen them play against each other. And most of the work Lonzo has done has been rather inconsequential to the outcome of those games (See the 2 threes in garbage time”).

Lonzo has played more though and has a lot longer leash than Fox. But that’s how they’re bringing Fox along. So sure, Fox doesn’t play huge minutes and they team doesn’t strategize for Fox to get rebounds.

And since Fox has been inserted into the starting lineup his play has been drastically better. See last 10 games.

And oh.... I was at the game on Tuesday and he played like shit. His first shot looked like one of the kids that shot during halftime after doing a sack race in a giant Takis bag.
And when the Lakers played well, he wasn’t in the game. Surprise surprise.

So in all of the games I’ve seen, he’s been shit. The games I saw in person he was shit. His stats show that he’s shit. What do you expect me to think? I gotta watch all of his games now to catch a positive display of ability?

Your excuses are tired. If you’re tight cuz your squad picked a dud, that’s on you.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

That's why we have data - so we can see through dudes like you who are blatantly biased with limited understanding of the game and believe their own anecdotal information while missing the forest for the trees.

As far as the minutes differential, that's why I used #'s that are rates and %'s so it normalizes for that. Additionally, the team doesn't "strategize" to get Lonzo rebounds (that would be OKC last season and not a bad strategy at that), it was BShaw, prior to the Bulls game, who told him to start attacking the glass again because he's our best outlet passer (whereas Fox likes to dribble up-court rather than use the speed of the pass, different styles).

Lol at all the drivel when true, normalized metrics are staring you right in the face...it's sad you have to resort to the Sarah Huckabee Sanders school of PR.

I'll leave you to respond with your basic takes.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

Your man has been trash. Let’s not pretend that I’m the only one that has pointed this out as fact. Maybe we all have limited basketball knowledge and can’t comprehend the impact of bumass Lonzo.

You couldn’t refute any argument that I’ve already made. How in the world did people watch basketball without Advanced Stats? You’re one of those guys.

We gotta sit here and pretend that Lonzo has been average because he’s a Laker? And I’m biased? You act like you’d be caping this hard if he wasn’t a Laker? FOH.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

C’mon... fam... not like this. This ain’t the hill to die on.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Normalized data >>>>>>> anecdotal "data"

Until you take into account more than just "SAC vs LA games where Fox is playing more than 'brought-along-slowly' minutes" then it's clear that Ball has been more productive with his minutes than Fox.

his response. That shit's lame.

But oh well... I guess me calling that out wasn't enough for you guys. Now I don't look at Lonzo's stats. And I don't watch Fox's stats. But now that I have, the stats do match what I see with my "anecdotal data" or eye test as I've seen since every time they have played against one another or on the same court.

As I pointed out their minutes has been drastically different in the first 18-19 games of their careers, but if you look at their stats Per 36 the picture gets a bit clearer.

Per 36 Minutes:
Fox vs Ball:
Pts: 15.1 vs 9.7
FG%: .410 vs .315
3P%: .320 vs 250
2P%: .424 vs .363
FT%: .711 vs .429
FTA: 3.4 vs 1.6
TOV: 3.1 vs 2.8
Blks: 0.2 vs 0.9
Steals: 1.1 vs 1.5
Ast: 6.3 vs 7.7
Rbd: 4.2 vs 8.0

Fox is scoring more. Right there with assists. He's not being sent to crash the boards as often. But LA's claim is Ball is crashing the boards, because he's their best outlet passer. Is their data to back up that claim or is that what he feels based off a few baseball passes scattered throughout the season?

Per 100 Possessions the gap widens:
Fox vs Ball:
Pts: 21.2 vs 12.6
TOV: 4.3 vs 3.7
Blk: 0.2 vs 1.2
Stl: 1.6 vs 2.0
Ast: 8.8 vs 9.9
Rbd: 5.8 vs 10.4

If you compare Fox, Ball, Ntilikina, and Smith per 100 Possessions. It goes.
Pts: Smith, Fox, Ball, Ntilikina
TOV: Ball, Fox, Ntilikina, Smith
Blk: Ball, Smith, Ntilikina, Fox
Stl: Ntilikina, Ball, Smith/Fox
Ast: Ball, Ntilikina, Fox, Smith
Rbd: Ball, Smith, Fox, Ntilkina
FT%: Fox, Smith, Ntilikina, Ball
FT Attempts: Fox, Smith, Ntilkina, Ball
2P%: Fox, Smith, Ntilkina, Ball
3P%: Fox, Smith, Ntilkina/Ball
FG % Fox, Smith, Ntilikina, Ball


We also have Fox's PER being 11.9 vs Ball's 10.3.

But know... let's highlight all of the Rebounding percentages right?

Not to mention that Fox is getting better as his role has expanded. His shooting improved over the last 10 up to .418. And over his last 5 games .463 and hasn't missed a 3 in 4 tries. While Ball might as well be shooting with his feet. .321 over his last 10 and .320 FG% over his last 5 and .250 3P% over his last 5.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

So you agree then that statistical analysis is more significant than just games you watch, right? That's a fair assessment?

Then the stats:

Points, shooting, percentages: Fox, no question, not even close.

Assists: The difference isn't the chasm that other categories are but this isn't close enough to be a wash - definitely Lonzo.

Rebounds: Head and shoulders above Fox. Lonzo is #5 among all G's . He's only behind Simmons, Westbrook, Dejounte Murray and Lance Stephenson. As far as his outlet passing, did you not know he's been doing this since high school and all throughout his year at UCLA? We saw the impact in the third game of the season when a Pelicans team featuring AD and Boogie are immediately running back on defense after shot attempts in order to limit Lonzo's outlet passing. Yes, his defensive rebounding is a threat because he's far more effective in transition than in a halfcourt offense.

Steals & Blocks (but really, Defense): About a half steal and a full block more per game. That translates to #14 overall in the league, across all positions. I notice you didn't bring up anything related to defense in your post, despite L2P specifically pointing out how wide the gap was between the two.

Those per 36 stats, Lonzo vs Fox:

STL%: 2.0 vs 1.6
BLK%: 2.0 vs 0.4
DRB%: 18.5 vs 11.2
DWS: 1.0 vs 0.1
Def. Box +/-: 2.5 vs -2.2

Offensive stats for the sake of thoroughness:
PER: 10.3 vs 11.9
TS%: .374 vs .466
ORB%: 4.3 vs 2.2
AST%: 29.4 vs 29.0
TOV%: 18 vs 16
USG%: 18.3 vs 24.0
OWS: -0.9 vs -0.4
Off. Box +/-: -3.0 vs -2.2

What does that give us overall?

WS: 0.2 vs -0.2
WS/48: .013 vs -.025
Box +/-: -0.6 vs -4.4
Value over Replacement Player: 0.2 vs -0.3


If you want to honestly assess a player, do so over his entire time on the court, not just one side. Using purely objective overall stats shows Lonzo than than Fox when defensive contributions are also taken into account. Sure, Fox may absolutely be better with more consistent minutes. But assuming Lonzo is just going regressing or plateauing when his role is changing as well is sheer bias (he's being used less in initiating the halfcourt offense and we're seeing Clarkson/Ingram/Randle handle the ball more at the start of possessions).

Is Lonzo better overall right today? Yes. At the end of the season? Who knows. Honest discourse? Let's hope.


Some bonus stats:

Lonzo being much better than expected on the defensive end has led to the Lakers being #5 in overall Defensive Rating and #8 in Adj. Defensive Rating.

If you're looking at just the Lakers in that team rating, here's Lonzo:

USG%: 18.3% (7th on team)
DWS: 1.0 (1st; Ingram/KCP #2 at 0.8, Randle/Lopez #3 at 0.7)
Def Box +/-: 2.5 (2nd; 1st is Bogut at 6.0, Nance/Brewer/Randle/Hart are next and range from 1.8 to 1.3)

Overall:

WS: 0.2 (10th; Kuzma/Lopez/KCP are #1, #2, #3 at 1.4, 1.2, 1.2)
Box +/-: -0.2 (6th; after Lopez/Nance/KCP/Bogut/Randle)
VORP: 0.2 (T-3rd; Lopez/KCP at 0.4, and Randle is also 0.2)

Fox has been better when it comes to shooting the ball, nothing else, and particularly worse defensively - to the extent where the shooting differential is overtaken by the defensive differential.

RBO is on his UK blind troll routine (as evidenced by his use of red herrings) and like most of the viewing public, is hyper-focused on scoring.

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

I didn’t add or take away any of the actual arguments anyways so you can miss me with that nonsense. Good grief, like dealing with a child who just wants to save face

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

The premise remains as it did a year ago. De'Aaron is better than all of them. You taking this personal, and you're in your feelings cuz you're super Lakers fan.

When compared to Ball, Fox is better and more aggressive offensively. And when you put his numbers Per 36 mins and 100 Possessions, it shows that. He shoots the ball drastically better.

Ball has better rebounding numbers but that is how he is being used and that is how the Lakers are constructed.

And what's worse is that Fox is improving as his role increases, and Ball is either getting worse or plateauing as the season goes on.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

---------------------------------
<--The drought is over

"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS

"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left."
-Kobe speaking to investigators

L D E A

I don't know what to tell you. Hopefully you'll ignore this topic altogether in the future. You won't though....cuz....Lakers.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

.

************************************************************

i guess nike had him making the rounds with nicekicks and shit like that. seems corny AF. bad taste in sneakers, too

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

https://mobile.twitter.com/Scott_Charlton/status/956721266957979648

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

The biggest obstacle right now for him is his frame and learning how to play through the nicks and bruises. He's very John Wall like in that sense. John used to get the these little nagging injuries early in his career.

He keeps getting better though.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Thanksgiving...

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

I don't do game by game updates. And he's been getting hurt too much like I said on top of hitting the wall.

Right on schedule.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

was rapidly closing before Zo got hurt, they're actually shooting the same from 3.

He's definitely not better than Dennis either.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

and he ended up being worse as a starter (wonder why?) and he ghosted

---
"though time has passed, im still the future" (c) black thought

I’m not doing a game by game of his rookie year. There’s gonna be ups and downs. All I’m saying he’s better. If anybody wants to catch feelings, that’s play too. As long as we can have it centralized here so I don’t have to search for it years down the road.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Like, way better.

https://twitter.com/Scott_Charlton/status/957802046337503237

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2629725&mesg_id=2629725&page=#2640088

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

You can simply ignore this post. Or catch feelings.

It's up to you.

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

https://twitter.com/Scott_Charlton/status/974140313781534720

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

------------------------------

50+ FREE Mixes on www.DJR-Tistic.com!

Twitter and Instagram - @DJ_RTistic

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

All of them

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

both have immensely improved, except for DeAaron's 3 point shot.

************************************************************

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

both are having great seasons so far.

************************************************************

<---https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DL9AVTQ

Like i said, he's having a great season too.

************************************************************

<---
Fuck a sig, my presence is enough.