it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
24. "Best 2 way game we've played in awhile" In response to Reply # 21
I don't even care about outcome -although it's great to be rewarded w the W and reinforce these habits - but the way we were pressuring the ball, switching, talking, tagging cutters weakside defensively combined with the ball movement and flow offensively, taking open looks confidently w/o hesitation...it's the best approach I've seen from us in years.
--------------------------------- <--The drought is over
"have fun reveling in your pettiness tho" (C) Dula summing up 98% of OKS
"I didnt finish a damn thing...matter of fact I jerked off after she left." -Kobe speaking to investigators
Frank Longo Member since Nov 18th 2003 86672 posts
Wed Nov-01-17 03:01 AM
28. "Second year, just turned 20 years old." In response to Reply # 27
Not that anyone here expects you to understand this, but if you're that age/experience and you're improving first-to-second season like this, that is, by all accounts, a good thing.
This is now the part where you reply with something that fails to understand basketball fundamentally, and the part where I stop replying because it isn't worth my time.
41. "with 7 pro games under his belt he's averaging the same amount..." In response to Reply # 38
of points as Ingram is in year 2 plus Lonzo is averaging 7 boards and 7 assists numbers Ingram has never even been close to despite being nearly 7 feet tall.
46. "It's hilarious how badly you wreck your own agendas." In response to Reply # 45
> Lonzo's shooting has been terrible, that's why I liked seeing him attack the basket last night which he is good at instead of just settling for jumpers. Its sad that it took his coach 7 games to figure that out.
He's been attacking the basket since the start of the season, with some prominent left handers against Phoenix and so many others (unfortunately) blocked like against New Orleans.
The problem is his handles aren't good enough to consistently take guys off the dribble in a half court set and he's not yet comfortable initiating contact to create space. So a lot of his drives to the basket are usually in transition, instead of as an off-ball cutter like at UCLA (next to a combo guard that can shoot).
Hmm... seems like Lonzo's effectiveness as a cutter would be bolstered if the Lakers also had a ball-handling primary scorer with vision and range. Hmm.....
You'd know all this if you were watching these games though.
47. "WTF are you even talking about?" In response to Reply # 46
>He's been attacking the basket since the start of the season, >with some prominent left handers against Phoenix and so many >others (unfortunately) blocked like against New Orleans.
Lonzo's taking a lot of 3's, 5 per game, more than anybody else on the team.
>The problem is his handles aren't good enough to consistently >take guys off the dribble in a half court set and he's not yet >comfortable initiating contact to create space. So a lot of >his drives to the basket are usually in transition, instead of >as an off-ball cutter like at UCLA (next to a combo guard that >can shoot).
What games are you watching? His handles are fine, he can get in the lane whenever he wants.
>Hmm... seems like Lonzo's effectiveness as a cutter would be >bolstered if the Lakers also had a ball-handling primary >scorer with vision and range. Hmm.....
He doesn't need D'angelo's bricking ass, let that shit go lol
>You'd know all this if you were watching these games though.
I've watched parts or all of every Laker game this season so try again.
51. "Your agendas against Luke and D'Angelo. " In response to Reply # 47
You're contradicting your own positions.
> Lonzo's taking a lot of 3's, 5 per game, more than anybody else on the team.
Yes, they're giving him space because defenders respect his drive. The drive that he's been using since the beginning of the season, ie not something that took Luke "7 games to figure out".
He had several open layups in the Phoenix game because his shot was actually falling and defenders had to start going over the screens.
> What games are you watching? His handles are fine, he can get in the lane whenever he wants.
Yes, his handles are fine but they're not elite. He's not a half-court Westbrook/Paul type that can penetrate at will; like I said his drives are better in transition or as an off-ball cutter. We know this because, again, we've had seven games of film, not one.
> He doesn't need D'angelo's bricking ass, let that shit go lol
He doesn't *need* D'Angelo, but it's clear with more games that each player would thrive if they were together. They would cover each other's weaknesses beautifully. KCP isn't a dynamic enough playmaker or scorer to force defenses to collapse on him. With D'Angelo initiating the offense, it frees up Lonzo to work off ball a lot more, setting up D'Angelo hockey assists or cutting to the basket. This is so painfully obvious.
> I've watched parts or all of every Laker game this season so try again.
Then you're not paying attention? Not sure how you think Lonzo driving is only something that happened last night.
52. "RE: Your agendas against Luke and D'Angelo. " In response to Reply # 51
>Yes, they're giving him space because defenders respect his >drive. The drive that he's been using since the beginning of >the season, ie not something that took Luke "7 games to figure >out".
they're giving him space because they don't respect his jumper
>Yes, his handles are fine but they're not elite. He's not a >half-court Westbrook/Paul type that can penetrate at will; >like I said his drives are better in transition or as an >off-ball cutter. We know this because, again, we've had seven >games of film, not one.
So do defenders "respect his drives" or not? who's contradicting themselves? lol
>He doesn't *need* D'Angelo, but it's clear with more games >that each player would thrive if they were together. They >would cover each other's weaknesses beautifully. KCP isn't a >dynamic enough playmaker or scorer to force defenses to >collapse on him. With D'Angelo initiating the offense, it >frees up Lonzo to work off ball a lot more, setting up >D'Angelo hockey assists or cutting to the basket. This is so >painfully obvious.
KCP is exactly what he needs, a 3&D guy that can create space and play tough D on opposing wing players, not D'Angelo's ball-hogging, non-defending, losing ass lol.
54. "LOL at the deflection." In response to Reply # 52
You made a terrible claim to advance your anti-Luke agenda, got called on it and now are trying to avoid it. I see it.
> KCP is exactly what he needs, a 3&D guy that can create space and play tough D on opposing wing players, not D'Angelo's ball-hogging, non-defending, losing ass lol.
KCP is not a reliable ballhandler, isn't good at initiating a halfcourt offense and can't carry the scoring load every night. These are all things that D'Angelo excels at.
As for defense, you've seen the improvement right? Luke has Randle out there licking his chops when switching onto guards and guys bringing intensity. D'Angelo isn't a sieve, it's entirely reasonable that his D would improve under these new-look Lakers. It's obvious that both Randle and Ingram have improved since last year.
55. "RE: LOL at the deflection." In response to Reply # 54
>You made a terrible claim to advance your anti-Luke agenda, >got called on it and now are trying to avoid it. I see it.
And what exactly was that? And what's your position on Lonzo's driving ability this time?
>KCP is not a reliable ballhandler, isn't good at initiating a >halfcourt offense and can't carry the scoring load every >night. These are all things that D'Angelo excels at.
And they don't need him to do a whole lot of that, that's kinda Lonzo's job. Last year the D'Angelo-Clarkson backcourt never worked that's how Nick Young ended up starting. Clarkson's skillset is similar to Russell's and that's why he's better coming off the bench with the 2nd unit.
> >As for defense, you've seen the improvement right? Luke has >Randle out there licking his chops when switching onto guards >and guys bringing intensity. D'Angelo isn't a sieve, it's >entirely reasonable that his D would improve under these >new-look Lakers. It's obvious that both Randle and Ingram >have improved since last year.
56. "RE: LOL at the deflection." In response to Reply # 55
> And what exactly was that? And what's your position on Lonzo's driving ability this time?
You said this in post #45:
> Lonzo's shooting has been terrible, that's why I liked seeing him attack the basket last night which he is good at instead of just settling for jumpers. Its sad that it took his coach 7 games to figure that out.
I said he's *been* attacking the basket since the start of the season. His drives are better in transition than in a half court offense (where someone like D'Angelo would help).
Do you understand now?
> And they don't need him to do a whole lot of that, that's kinda Lonzo's job. Last year the D'Angelo-Clarkson backcourt never worked that's how Nick Young ended up starting. Clarkson's skillset is similar to Russell's and that's why he's better coming off the bench with the 2nd unit.
No shit Clarkson and Russell don't work together in the same backcourt, they have similar skillsets. Seriously, do you watch these games? Lonzo had a uniquely low usage rate for PG's at UCLA because of how strong an off-ball player he is. Both Clarkson and Russell are dribble-happy combo guards that look to score before passing.
Do you understand now?
> okayplayer.
Lol, this is how lame you are. Don't think I didn't notice that you avoided my post in the thread that YOU upped regarding Luke. Lakers are one of the better defensive teams in the league right now (#6 in Def Rtg) and guys are buying in. That's a byproduct of *coaching*, especially when defense has been our biggest problem for years now.
Lakers head coach Luke Walton, who was critical of Randle’s attitude to start the season, gave Randle due credit for turning things around so quickly.
“He's been really good ever since we kind of started playing him in that backup five role, he's just been playing with great energy. Defensively he's been switching onto point guards, and containing, and staying in front.
“He can change games, and he did tonight with the way he came in and played with that second unit in the first half, and he had a very solid game for us again,” Walton said after Randle led the team in scoring against Detroit.
Do you understand now?
So... now that that's done. Did you want to actually address the detailed points I supported with evidence or just resort to ad hominem attacks and deflection?
39. "KD comparisons were always unfair and unrealistic . " In response to Reply # 37 Wed Nov-01-17 09:51 AM by DJR
We’re talking about one of the best scorers in history. And that goes for his one college year too.
Ingram has the look of a guy who will do a lot of things well. He’s shown solid improvement. The criticism is weird. Everyone knew he was young and skinny with a raw offensive game, and not a ready made pro like a Simmons, KD, Lebron, Carmelo, etc.
He’s doing fine. Well on track to becoming an all star level player in the future IMO.
>He’s doing fine. Well on track to becoming an all star >level player in the future IMO.
This board just likes to assume that because a small handful of 19-year-olds come in and do well right away that all of them need to meet that exact same time frame.
By three years in, you should at least have an idea of what you have with a kid in most cases. Before then? All about showing growth. Which Ingram is doing.
50. "RE: KD comparisons were always unfair and unrealistic . " In response to Reply # 44
> >>Ingram has the look of a guy who will do a lot of things >well. > >right but is he great at any one thing? Most stars a great at >least one thing
True. Most superstars are. I’m not sure he’ll become that level of a player or not. He’s got the length, quickness, and athletic ability to develop into a great defender IMO. Needs more strength and experience.
Offensively, I think his ceiling depends on how good his jumper gets.
>>He’s doing fine. Well on track to becoming an all star >>level player in the future IMO. > >I'd love to be wrong but I just don't see it >
Long way to go. He’s nowhere near a finished product though. He played a lot better towards the end of last year, and IMO has improved more since then. His shooting numbers are better, though not where they need to be. Defense is better. Looks more aggressive and confident on both ends. If he can keep that bounce while filling out and continuing to become a better shooter, I don’t see why he can’t be a 20, 6, and 5 type player and strong defender.
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