1. "It means melo ain't gotta defend athletic wings no more" In response to Reply # 0
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
3. "I think he's the most important piece, but might be #3 in points" In response to Reply # 2
He's gonna need to do a lot to lock the defense down with Andre in the starter unit and likely be asked to do for the D what Russ does for the O with meager bench squads.
Melo is just gonna have to play his role. We'll see if he can be humble.
7. "Ideally you'd bring Melo off the bench but they don't have any players" In response to Reply # 5
Pretty mish-mashed team but you look at what Presti gave up and what he got? W. In a perfect world you'd play Melo 30-ish hard minutes a night, running the second unit and finishing games where matchups permitted.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
43. "Did you create a login yet for the bball league and send it to AB?" In response to Reply # 42
He needs it to assign you to a team and set the draft order.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
50. "Playing 30+minutes and finishing games it not an insult" In response to Reply # 19
Starting is for high school (c) Rick Majerus
They need balance between the first unit and second unit. Russ and PG are going to play 35+ minutes and are in their prime, so Melo is the logical choice to run the second unit and get those favorable matchups against reserves. Not a slight, just a basketball decision. Anyway they don't have enough players to do this right anyway so my guess is Melo starts at the four.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
54. "They need floor balance and spacing with their first unit too though" In response to Reply # 50
And they can still have Melo or one of the other two out there against reserves, just by how and when they sub.
I really don’t see it here. It’s like....why don’t the Warriors bring Klay off the bench? They got Steph and KD starting already and need someone to get buckets against the other teams reserves!
57. "Uh, because the Dubs have a good ass bench and OKC doesn't?" In response to Reply # 54
If the Warriors didn't have versatile 1-3 type subs such as Iggy and Livingston, there might be some argument there. Also in their primes sure those were comparable players but right today Melo's salary gave him bag-of-dildos trade value while every team in the league lineup to pay Klay that same money. Not an apple/apple comparison and even so under the right circumstances I could see an argument.
If OKC had a true four bringing Melo off the bench would be an easy call IMO. Similarly if they had a real deep team it wouldn't matter much.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
20. "RE: Ideally you'd bring Melo off the bench but they don't have any playe..." In response to Reply # 7
>Pretty mish-mashed team but you look at what Presti gave up >and what he got? W. In a perfect world you'd play Melo 30-ish >hard minutes a night, running the second unit and finishing >games where matchups permitted.
LOL....Y'all r hilarious....
GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....
22. "RE: we're talking about a guy" In response to Reply # 21
>with the 3rd highest active career averages in MPG and PPG, >it's crazy how much disrespect the dude gets. > >I will grant its his 15th season and most of his comparisons >dropped off kind of heavy in that year, but modern medicine >and all that.
Right....
It's just easy to kick the man around on the surface of it all....
I could def. understand if Carmelo was being asked to be the no. 1 option...that would be worthy of criticism...of major side-eye.
But he's had some of his best rebounding numbers playing the 4...He will not be the 1st option (and on certain nights, the 2nd option)....His eyes will light up when he is no longer double teamed.....And Anthony usually is a mismatch against most power forwards.....Hell, his catch and shoot numbers are pretty damn good....I think OKC will be a good move for Anthony.
GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....
23. "I don't think him coming off the bench is an insult the way you guys are" In response to Reply # 22
taking it.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
25. "or you can think of it as melo leading the 2nd unit as the #1 offensive" In response to Reply # 24
guy instead of patterson, collison grant.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
27. "lol so whats the difference between him coming off the bench and startin..." In response to Reply # 26
and then subbing out after 5-6 minutes and coming back in with the 2nd unit?
Either way he gonna be playing in the low 30s at this point. Too much is made out of someone 'starting'.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
29. "Putting your best 5 out there to start the game" In response to Reply # 27 Thu Sep-28-17 03:43 PM by DJR
because the other team will. You start the game with a weaker caliber player out there, going against the other teams best 5....I mean, why? Also, if you’ve never come off the bench before it’s different. Coming into a game cold, 6-8 minutes in, I think is something some guys are better at and more accustomed to doing.
I haven’t heard one good reason for Melo coming off the bench other than “to lead the second unit”, which any of their big 3 could end up doing at different points of the game.
30. "melo looked great doing it in the olympics right?" In response to Reply # 29
lol we don't know how he'd adjust. I'm not even saying he SHOULD come off the bench. It just seems funny to me that dudes are so opposed to it, when really it doesn't matter.
What's most important is how many minutes he playing and who finishes.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
36. "sometimes he looked good starting last year." In response to Reply # 33
sometimes he didn't lol
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
35. "Did he? I thought he started" In response to Reply # 30
>lol we don't know how he'd adjust. I'm not even saying he >SHOULD come off the bench. It just seems funny to me that >dudes are so opposed to it, when really it doesn't matter. > >What's most important is how many minutes he playing and who >finishes.
Regardless, a US Olympic team is always stacked to a level that NBA teams arent. Your bench players are basically just as good as your starters, they’re all all stars.
It seems funny to me that cats are even bringing this up as something he/they “should” do but not giving any reasons for it.
37. "i gave a reason...you disagreed. *shrug*" In response to Reply # 35
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
40. "But that’s going to happen anyways(leading the “2nd unit”)" In response to Reply # 37
I mean, they’re not going to sub Melo, Westbrook, and PG all out at the same time, so someone’s going to be out there with mostly reserves against mostly opposing reserves at points in the game, regardless.
I think you want all 3 of them on the court together as much as possible, while having at least one of them on the floor always.
55. "No. I’m just right" In response to Reply # 52
Melo should and will start. And for good reason. You starting doesn’t matter guys haven’t given me one example of a similar scenario where one of the “big 3” on a top heavy team comes off the bench. And no, Tobias Harris above was not it.
58. "Duncan-Parker-Manu much?" In response to Reply # 55
Melo right today is a guy who can fill it up in spurts and especially against weaker opponents. Are you telling me a Jamal Crawford on the Clips type is not suitable for him right today? Again, starting is for high school.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
60. "Melo is not Jamal Crawford " In response to Reply # 58 Sat Sep-30-17 07:22 PM by DJR
He’s gotten older but he still averaged 22 and 6 with no guards to feed him.
All the same, if you had a loaded enough team to where all you needed Melo for was to come off the bench and get buckets against backups, cool. This isn’t the Warriors or the Olympics though.
65. "yeah i mean i dont think we see this all that differently" In response to Reply # 60
i just think there is no need to scoff at the idea that a guy who plays the same position as your second star might be fit to run the second unit. it's not happening in this situation but it could in others, and not necessarily the olympics or a loaded team like GS.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
I don’t want to write him off because he’s still finding his way there and still put up numbers last year.
But is he still a 30+ minute, 20 ppg(or so) level guy if they need him to be? I’m not sure. He’s a couple years older than Melo. I don’t know if he’s capable of carrying a “big 3” load. Maybe come playoff time.
69. "the point is a guy can still come off the bench and play 30 minutes" In response to Reply # 68
a night and be big part of the team.
Not sure what a big 3 load is....but whether a guy starts or not shouldn't be as big of a deal as its made out to be.
How many minutes does he deserve to be on the floor? What other players can he play with that his skills are utilized the most? Should he be on the floor during crunch time.
Those should be the critical factors.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
70. "He can, it it depends on how the team is constructed" In response to Reply # 69 Mon Oct-23-17 04:11 PM by DJR
Like Odom with the Lakers, he was one of the best players on the team but came off the bench because it fit the teams needs the best. - they had Artest, Gasol, and Bynum in the frontcourt and Odom was that versatile player who could come in for any of them.
When I say “big 3 load”, part of that is taken into account how OKC’s roster is constructed. It’s a clear 3 stars who carry the team and take most of the shots, and then a bunch of role players type team.
I know in the first game there was only 3 minutes where Melo was on the court with neither PG or Russ. They basically always had 2 of those guys out there, and had all 3 of them out there together for about half the game.
28. "You do that by staggering Melo/Russ/PG as far as when you’re subbing t..." In response to Reply # 25
You got Melo, PG, and Westbrook, you want them on the floor together a good amount too though. Melo at the 4 will really space the floor for them, which they badly needed.
53. "Obviously there will be times when they are out there together " In response to Reply # 28
no matter what.
and as it is yeah he will be a stretch four of sorts, which is good since their other stars are more drive-oriented. but in a perfect world you'd have a true four to play, even if he werent all that gifted offensively, and melo could shift between the two units as matchups warranted.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
32. "RE: or you can think of it as melo leading the 2nd unit as the #1 offens..." In response to Reply # 25 Thu Sep-28-17 03:48 PM by murph71
>guy instead of patterson, collison grant.
SMH...lol...OKC's HUGE issue last season was spacing....So it would be better if Melo is out on the floor starting with Russ and PG to make their lives easier.....
GOAT of his era......long live Prince.....God is alive....
>SMH...lol...OKC's HUGE issue last season was spacing....So it >would be better if Melo is out on the floor starting with Russ >and PG to make their lives easier.....
38. "But they just said their minutes are gonna get staggered anyway" In response to Reply # 32
So if the three of them play 20- minutes a game together what difference does it make if they start or not? Thats my point. Too much is made of 'starting'.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
82. "So how's that spacing issue working out?" In response to Reply # 32
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
51. "It's not disrespect and he's not at his peak anymore" In response to Reply # 21
Assigning a guy minutes and a role has fuck all to do with what he's done before. Right now if he stays at the three he has to come off the bench and he's also a logical choice to create a mismatch and power the team when Russ and/or PG is not on the floor.
I love this junior high mentality that coming off the bench is some loogey in the face move. Important ass players come off the bench all the time for good teams (Hondo, Billy C, Manu, Detlef, et al), it doesn't mean they aren't one of the better players on the team or getting big minutes, it's just a way of managing your lineup/matchups.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
56. "like you’ve already said....they don’t have anyone else that should ..." In response to Reply # 51
This “in a perfect world” stuff.....ok. But, they have what they have. And I don’t see how Melo coming off the bench is even a thought here.
I think pairing him with Russ and PG and having a potentially great offensive team was the bigger reason for acquiring him than “leading the second unit”.
Like, Odom came off the bench....because they had Ariza/Artest, Gasol, and Bynum and Odom coming off the bench gave the team the most flexibility and versatility. This ain’t that though.
Deflef came off the bench in Indy, and started in Seattle. Depends on the team and situation.
59. "If they had a real four, they'd do better to play him and bring Melo in" In response to Reply # 56
And I am not talking about an all-star, just an adequate starter who played the position for real. Playing these three guys together may not move the ball well and certainly isn't going to give you any grit on the glass or in terms of interior defense. Too many guys who do the same things. I get that you're offended that someone would suggest your beloved paper champion should play starter's minutes off the bench while he's in decline, but your "basketball reasons" are only making you seem more hurt.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
6. "Melo is washed, next step is buyout/ring chase mode." In response to Reply # 0
Not much to do with this though, just Presti grabbing whatever talent he could for scraps and figuring it out later. Dumped bad contracts, at worst got back cap space, at best has two stars again and a dude (Melo) who will run a second unit effectively
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
dula dibiasi Member since Apr 05th 2004 21925 posts
Thu Sep-28-17 10:25 AM
9. "why do pp keep saying this?" In response to Reply # 8
george and roberson are elite defenders. adams is very good on the inside. russ gives half-ass effort a lot of nights but is good when he actually tries. and kanter's old minutes will now be going to much better defenders in patterson and grant.
i could be wrong but i think their defense will be pretty damn good.
___
it is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. - sherlock holmes
10. "Melo better at guarding 4s than 3s anyway." In response to Reply # 9
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
auragin_boi Member since Aug 01st 2003 20939 posts
Thu Sep-28-17 10:51 AM
13. "Yeah, I didn't get it either" In response to Reply # 9
PG has been known for his D, Roberson's value is D (certainly not O), Russ CAN D up but was definitely being selective being Mr. Triple Double and with good reason but his effort should be better this year because that 43% usage rate is gonna decline. And Adams & Grant can defend.
I think they are straight on both sides of the ball. Especially considering you got 3 guys that can go for 30+ on any night if needed so nobody has to do all the heavy lifting on O.
They have Westbrook, not Harden, his D is fine. George is an above average defender, especially for a guy who carries a big load at the other end. Melo is not a good defender but guarding 4s should help him some and also position him to get more boards. They still have Roberson and some other good defenders. I guess they did lose some D between Gibson, mini-Sabas and Oladipo, but they sure didn't lose much with Kanter.
I see their roster being incomplete and mish-mashed but then again they have two guys who can play huge minutes and still have some pluggers like Adams inside.
The more salient critique to me is that they made all these moves and could still lose in the first round. I see them as like a 4-ish seed that could quite possibly be able to get to the second round and lose there.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
64. "No, one is a sidekick, the other is a peripheral piece" In response to Reply # 62
watched them against utah the other night since i had to watch the beisbol game on my phone. pretty ugly. it's early though, most of these games have been ugly.
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
79. "PG is shooting the best percentage of their "big three"" In response to Reply # 66
Not that 41.6% is anything to brag about but Melo and Russy are even worse.
Anyway, like I said, this team is some bullshit. Not enough pieces and the ones they have don't fit together. We can bicker about agendas or acknowledge the broader truth that this team didn't take any steps forward
And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
84. "Melo is shooting the same percentage as PG " In response to Reply # 79
lol
>Anyway, like I said, this team is some bullshit. Not enough >pieces and the ones they have don't fit together. We can >bicker about agendas or acknowledge the broader truth that >this team didn't take any steps forward
"We" don't need to do any of that, that's all you.
67. "which one is which?" In response to Reply # 64
21.3, 5.7, and 3.7 for PG in 38 mpg.
23.7, 2, and 1.7 for Melo in 36 mpg.
Hard to pin that on anyone playing that many minutes and scoring that many points.
I haven’t watched them play yet but just going off the numbers: PG’s gotta shoot better, and Melo’s gotta hit the boards more. And they will. Both guys are essential to whatever success that team has this year.
72. "yeah, thats the only reason the knicks were in it in the 1st half" In response to Reply # 71
these dudes was launching like it was an all star game.
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
73. "I think what I'm more excited about than anything..." In response to Reply # 72
is Melo at the 4 and the team defense. He's still quick enough to get the basket and he's been really invested on D. I think he had 3 or 4 blocks as of last night. The defense has been starting fast breaks, too.
...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft
76. "I'm not a Billy guy, but I don't think people are listening to him" In response to Reply # 75
and I think it goes back to Russ
His college offense - which he ran for two decades - was basically exactly what this era of the NBA was looking for.
Yea, his rotations are shit, but his rotation kind of is shit, and that's not on him.
He's an easy scapegoat, but this is an issue with his communication and relatability to the team, Russ' stubbornness, Melo's habits as a player, Roberson's uselessness as a floor spacer and their mostly below replacement level 6-10 guys.
78. "Yup, Melo still playing like he think he a number 1 option." In response to Reply # 74
-The Knicks’ coaching search still includes a lone frontrunner, Kurt Rambis, whose qualifications for the position include a strong relationship with Jackson and a willingness to take the job.
81. "Russ is just today's Iverson" In response to Reply # 0
He can easily be marketed.
He does some awesome shit.
He plays to the crowd.
He's exciting.
Kids love them
He plays hard and gives it his all every single game.
Other players love his talent.
BUT.............. you really can't win with him because his game isn't adaptable. I mean they both could play another way, but they prefer to play THEIR way where they're the focus of the entire team. The only problem is that their preferred style of playing basketball isn't conducive to long term winning basketball and won't be good teams in the playoffs.
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